What went wrong?

>>381712339
Nomura.

Spirits Within.

>>381712339
Almost everything they make now is style over substance.

squaresoft and enix fusioned

>FFXI flops
>XII is already finished, realize 13 has to be insanely overdone
>go too far
>it's too much for one game but not enough for two
>fuck it, trilogy
>and maybe we can fix that time we fucked up an MMO
And them's the facts.

>>381713074
>And them's the facts.

not really. what happened to them is exactly the same that happened to everyone else: HD dev costs.

File: 4L_HheeQcT2.jpg (150KB, 797x957px) Image search: [Google]

150KB, 797x957px

>>381712339

Start a new Deus Ex trilogy, release the first game, develop half of the second game, then kill it to make a Marvel game, while trying to kill the Hitman franchise, all because your 10-years-old weeb protect failed hard

>>381712339
They may not be Rockstar or Naughty Dog tier, sure, but they are still great.

>nu-TR
>Life is Strange
>Hitman
>Deus Ex
>FFXV was not THAT bad

>>381713206
"no"

>>381713427
>nu-TR
First game was so generic I forgot I finished it, second one can be appealing for the first hour, then meh

>Life is Strange
lol

>Hitman
They forced the developers to make it always online and episodic, then they tried to kill the series at the point devs had to escape

>Deus Ex
They forced the developers to split the next game in 3 parts, released part 1, then put the franchise in hold for another decade
Because Marvel games are more important

>FFXV was not THAT bad
Half good game, half bad game.

>>381713427
>>FFXV was not THAT bad

/v/ neckbeards shit on xv but it easily was the most original rpg i have played this gen. pretty ballsy for square to do something like that with their flagship franchise.

>>381713824
>I don't care about games that did well
>reeee about hitman that's a dead franchise

trying this hard

>>381713074
>>FFXI flops

u wot mate ?

>>381713832
>most original rpg i have played this gen
You must not play that many rpgs. Also it was a spinoff that they only used because they had no other ideas at the time. And they still toned done all the death worship

>>381712339
Square stopped giving a shit about other IPs, and talented people left the company. The merger didn't help.

>>381714039
right ? shit is still alive 15+ years later

>>381714143
you and thirty other spergs aren't a community

>>381713832
>most original RPG
What about Persona, Witcher III, Nioh, Mankind Divided, Nier Automata etc?

They're all considered RPGs but they're deeply different (gameplay or stile-wise) from the standard "rpg" stereotype
More than FFXV at least

Nothing against Final Fantasy, just asking

>>381712339
bad producers hiring bad developers who made bad development pipelines. And they're honestly just barely starting to fix it.

>>381713427
>>FFXV was not THAT bad

Yes, yes it was

>>381713957
All of them did well, anon

That's why Square is a retarded company, it kills entire franchises with active communities and ongoing chapters because the focus is on easy money, plus forcefully keeping japanese IPs alive

>>381713957
Are you retarded? This thread is about Square's shitty business practices. His criticisms are perfectly in line for reasons why the suck ass

>>381713957
>this company is still great! Look at these 5 games!
>...yeah two of them were bad, these other two games got their whole series cancelled and last one is meh
>T-TRYING TOO HARD!!!!

???

They're still making SaGa, so nothing.

>>381714782
>Are you retarded?
>>381714680
>That's why Square is a retarded company


square attracts sonic tier neckbeards. what they are doing is perfectly in line with any other big publisher. hitman is a dead franchise.

>>381714428
>What about Persona, Witcher III, Nioh, Mankind Divided, Nier Automata etc?
literally none of them were original gameplay wise. (apart from Nioh which is 60% action and 40 %rpg)

Anyone else not excited for KH3 at all? Any hype I could have sustained over such a long development time was squandered by retarded fan-pandering, cash-grabbing spinoffs

>>381715543
>long development time
How long do you think it's been in development

>>381712339
Dragon Quest 10 still hasn't been localized

>>381715605
considering it was poised for ps3 release, I'd say too long. but at least we got remasters that generation. thanks square

>>381715793
>considering it was poised for ps3
Oh my god, you are so ignorant

>>381715458
>what they are doing is perfectly in line with any other big publisher
When was the last time a western developer bought three Japanese IPs, then killed two (both with new games in active development) because a decade-long project utterly failed?

>>381715854
>t. nomura apologist

>>381712339
Tabata, Toriyama and the former crazy CEO.

>>381715854
Next time you'll say Duke Nukem Forever development was actually very short.

I think it happened during ffxi. people just left.

sakaguchi went on to make failed games
a mana guy made ever oasis
a xenogears guy is making xenoblade
the tactics guy had a failed kickstarter
what else?

they spend too much time making final fantasy bigger. do they have to be so big? do they have take a decade to finish one? the ff7 remake is going to be on ps5.

>>381715793
>considering it was poised for ps3 release
Well, no... not in this universe.

>>381716171
>So we're not working on KHIII now and we're not planning to work on it for some time, too.
https://www.khinsider.com/news/Kingdom-Hearts-II-Ultimania-Main-Nomura-Interview-2553
>My own feelings are that I would like to give Sora a break from large adventures for a little while. So I'm thinking of making the next game's story focus on other characters.
https://www.khinsider.com/news/Kingdom-Hearts-II-Final-Mix-Main-Nomura-Interview-2557
How does it feel to be retarded

>>381716038
>When was the last time a western developer bought three Japanese IPs
you mean saved. we will see how IO does with a dead ip on their own.

>>381715793
>considering it was poised for ps3 release
>poised
bitch please stop making up shit. square made a ton of side games for the ds and the PSP. the was not selling well and dev costs were high. it's not that complicated.

>>381712339
>What went wrong?
They're a Japanese company, thus retarded by default.

>>381716464
stay mad faggot. maybe kh3 will come out by the end of this decade

Everything inexplicably went into a decline after the SE merger. It's like Square's only decent writers and localization staff decided to jump ship; or maybe there was too much meddling from Enix staff wanting to shoehorn itself into Square's flagship series. Enix never had good writers. Let's not forget that Enix was merely the publisher to the Dragon Quest series. None of the company's in-house games were ever near the quality of DQ.

Really, SE could merge all of its series under a single title, and no one would be able to tell the difference. All they churn out anymore is shitty Kingdom Hearts clones.

>>381717024
You already got proven wrong, just take the L

File: final-fantasy-xv-special-edition.jpg (119KB, 636x798px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 636x798px

>>381712339
>What went wrong?

XIV is doing fine.
Nier was resurrected and it was good.
Dragon Quest XI is the first console game since VIII.
FF XV was great.
Kingsglave is the best vidya movie ever.
Star Ocean... happened.
Builders and WoFF were fun.
Watching pewdiepie play Life is strange was fun.
TR ass > Chloe ass. Only neckbeards prefer old TR.
KH collections were awesome.
FF XII is getting remastered.
I am setsuna was forgetable but they are making more.
DQ mosou was fun.

Literally the best publisher this gen. Based Square.

>>381716417
Dunno, how does it feel?
It's been 4-5 years.

>>381717383
>being this deluded

captcha: chihuahua farm

>>381717601
>no u
Desperate and sad

>>381717067
Did Enix even have any noteworthy in-house titles? Did they even have in-house teams? I was under the impression that they were literally a bunch of very lucky investors who obtained a bunch of properties and happily slapped their logo on them, while Chunsoft, Natsume and others did all the work.

>>381717689
Up until Dragon Quest X, they would hire other developers to make the games and Enix/SE would then publish them

File: 697252.jpg (485KB, 2663x1488px) Image search: [Google]

485KB, 2663x1488px

>>381717642
>>being this deluded
>slew of games
>anon be mad

why so mad tho ? here, grab a wallpaper

>>381717647
I don't get it. Are you really going to act like five years isn't a long time to develop a game? And given Square's track record with delays, it will probably take even longer.

The trailers look great, but so did the original ones for FFXV and that turned out to be an abortion of a game in the end

>>381716464
>saved
According to the respective fanbases, it's more like "killed"

But even if you accept the fact new games are casualized trash, good fucking job in "saving" such IPs
They managed to develop two games each, then they fucked up twice

Also, everything good in the new games was put there by western devs
Everything bad about them (mostly, the aggressive jewness forced through the games) was Square's fault

They literally ruined or killed everything they touched, they truly are Japanese EA

>>381717915
>5
Only 4.
>isn't a long time to develop a game
Most AAA take 4-5 years nowadays. Most companies aren't stupid enough to announce them right as they start development though

>>381717884
>slew of shit/mediocre games

ftfy. feel free to save this senpai ;)

The problem with modern Square is their workflow and schedule. They're trickling games and it's hurting them like hell. We're not getting another mainline FF for five-seven years, think about that. Old Square worked because Gooch was running around like a madman, screaming at all the programming teams to make games faster. Every year they had 2 to 3 titles. And if you didn't like the new FF? Well, there's always Mana, SaGa, Mario RPG, Musashi, anything you want basically. They had incredible range, but now they're not using it. No one would be against a new sprite-based mana game, a good one, not that half-assed DS/mobage crap. No one would be against SE doing quality legacy products to keep fans occupied in-between giant titles. They don't get that and it will kill them sooner than later.

>>381717647
>4-5 year for a game still in development without a release date isn't much
Delusion

>>381712339
Square not dying with Spirits Within.

>>381717383
>Kingsglave is the best vidya movie ever.
I almost agreed with your post, but this line is so wrong it makes me think the whole thing is bait.

>>381712339
their PAK toy line

>>381718097
>Most companies aren't stupid enough to announce them right as they start development though
>nintendo just announced a logo

>>381718181
I see you most the entire point of the "no u" and focused on the other statement my post wasn't focused on
Also, considering this conversation has switched from "it was supposed to be on ps3!" to "well 4 years is a long time", this is pretty funny

>>381714258
It's their most profitable game ever, what are you soking ?

>>381717383
>FF XV was great.
>Kingsglave is the best vidya movie ever.
>Watching pewdiepie play Life is strange was fun.

You have to be 18 to be here.

>>381713074
>FFXI flops

You mean the single most profitbale game in the companys history ? God you are a faggot.

>>381712739
This

>Guch man puts all of SquareSoft's money into this movie
>it doesn't sell at all
>sinks the entire production company
>the failure of the movie literally bankrupted SquareSoft
>only way to save the company is to merge with Enix
>can literally feel the change in quality in games after the merger

And the rest is history

>>381712339
They started to pander to fujoshis.

>>381718632
>Kingsglave

easily the best cgi i have ever seen

The only series Square have yet to ruin are the ones that are barely involved with SE other than publishing. As soon as they start meddling around with their franchises, they go to shit, end of story.

Firing Sakaguchi. They should have forced him in a strict contract. Should have forbidden him to ever even touch movies again. But firing him was a wrong move. He was literally heart and soul of the original team, many workers stayed in Square specifically because he was still working there and when he was fucked over they've promptly resigned. I've recently noticed people on /v/ talk shit about Gooch and how he was always an idea guy, but he was a goddamn great community manager and producer, his scheduling worked and his status as one of the two forefathers of the genre kept people on their best behavior. He was a mascot at that point and losing him was nearly symbolic.

>>381718786
>literally bankrupted SquareSoft
It didn't
>only way to save the company is to merge with Enix
They got money from sony, and FFX and KH sold very well. I think FFXI helped contribute, but I don't know for sure

>>381718786
>And the rest is history
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=744184

I know it's neofag but it's accurate and informative

Toriyama. He's like the Japanese Randy Pitchford

>>381718938
I agree firing sakaguchi was a mistake because even tioday you can see that regarding the production of ff they lack actual leadership, all they have are jokes like tabata, nomura or toriyama, btw why does fucking nomura has so much fucking freepasses in this goddamn company ?

File: 1482985408884.png (256KB, 434x497px) Image search: [Google]

256KB, 434x497px

>>381717383
Did you purposely forget about DX? Fuck outa here

>>381718863
Can't be only reason why they suck for over 10 years. They've got bigger financial problems in 90's yet released Chrono Trigger same time.

>>381719432
Because he works on everything they tell him to and his games sell enough

>>381719652
To the point that he can behave like a fucking diva even when he fucks up the production of a game ?

>>381719432
Probably because Kingdom Hearts, which is sad because you would think they care more about FF.

>>381719837
>fucking diva
>fucks up the production of a game
I bet you know everything that goes on at square don't you

>>381719432
Because Nomura is the last member of the old guard they have. He's a CLASSIC FF guy, he participated in creating iconic games and they bank on that. And while he's a good designer it's very evident he doesn't know game design well and is easily lost in his own ideas if not stopped. Do you remember how FFVII Compilation suddenly got announced and got absolutely massive in no time at all? From what I could gather from his own interviews, Nomura threw all these ideas together soon after initially creating FFVII, only for Sakaguchi politely to tell him 'no, we won't do that, not now, not ever'. It all comes back to the fact that Sakaguchi could mediate all the problems in that fucking community and help people work peacefully. FF XII director, whom Sakaguchi brought to the company to develop FFT, basically fucked off in the middle of XII's production because Sakaguchi wasn't there anymore and couldn't help him sort shit out with the management.

File: Tetsuya-nomura.jpg (177KB, 400x495px) Image search: [Google]

177KB, 400x495px

>>381719993
If it walks like a duck

>>381720207
>I didn't know what I was talking about in the first place and now I will post images instead of backing up what I said
What are you doing

>>381720109
>Because Nomura is the last member of the old guard they have
>>381719948
>Probably because Kingdom Hearts
>>381719652
>Because he works on everything

you are all fucking retarded. his name is a registered Square trademark. he is square's hideo kojima

>>381719993
dude got to take care of KH3, FFXV, FF7 remake. Dropped ffxv years after developpement hell and left tabata with the turd, kingdom hearts 3 is still absolutely nowhere and it's been years, and ff7 remake they said in the next three years. This guy is slow as fuck and it's become quite evident that these tasks might be too heavy fo his shoulders yet square seems to trust him to death even witrh those flaws, that's why i was asking my question

File: Kawazu.jpg (99KB, 640x833px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 640x833px

>>381720109
>Because Nomura is the last member of the old guard they have.
No.

>>381720109
>last member of the old guard they have
No he isn't
>Nomura threw all these ideas together soon after initially creating FFVII, only for Sakaguchi politely to tell him 'no, we won't do that, not now, not ever
LoL, don't make things up. Look up sakaguchi's originally pitch for 7 and Detective Joe

>>381720326
not same dude though

>>381720338
m8, I literally said they're banking on his name. You might have autism. Also, comparing Nomura's fame level to Kojima's is a bit too much.
>>381720479
Yeah, no. SaGaman will not get any love, ever. Normies don't buy his games. Nomura is already not that well-known, Kawazu is a fucking nobody, sadly.
>>381720539
Sorry, I don't see Sephiroth's long lost brothers or underground supersoldiers in that pitch, only bits of Parasite Eve.

>>381720450
>Dropped ffxv years after developpement hell
Nomura was retarded for trying to make a trilogy and switching to luminous but he is far from the only problem that xv faced in development
>in the next three years.
They said 7 remake, that marvel title, and kh3 will come out within the next 3 years

>>381721101
>Yeah, no. SaGaman will not get any love, ever. Normies don't buy his games. Nomura is already not that well-known, Kawazu is a fucking nobody, sadly.
Yeah, but to say there is only one last person of the old guard is silly when you have someone as influential as Kawazu still there.

File: 1489591185716.png (6KB, 253x199px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 253x199px

>>381712339
A string of bad decisions starting with FF13. Seems like Square and other Japanese studios were blindsided by HD gaming. So they had to balloon their expenditures to compete with Western games - especially Square, who rode high on dazzling graphics with FF7-FF10 (even if it was mostly the FMVs).

Then they decided they needed to build their own graphics engine - Crystal Tools. That was a giant blunder. FF14 was hamstrung by it because it was not meant to be used in an MMO. So they needed to build ANOTHER graphics engine - Luminous, which was used in FF15. OOPS, we don't have enough engineers who know how to use Luminous. Now KH3 gets delayed so they can move everything from Luminous to Unreal 4.

Now their main divison cannot release a game in timely manner to save their life. 2 years dev time is great, 3 years is understandable, 4 years is acceptable if it's really ambitious, but KH3 and FF15 were in works for 5+ years. Kids have graduated school in the time these goddamn games have been in development.

tl;dr Square cannot into resource management and most other companies would have folded.

>>381721101
>in that pitch
The guy was claiming nomura created ff7, which is false
If he was mistaking it for AC, sakaguchi was already out of the company by the time that started

>>381721107
Oh i'm not blaming him completely for xv but he is part of the problem and made mistakes

Nomura is a fucking child. He has grubby little hands with cheeto fingers, want every new game to be his property and has a vivid, but retarded imagination. That's all there is to it.
>>381721209
I badly formed my original statement, since it's morning here already. SE uses Nomura as fanbait to prove that they have someone cool on their team, since he participated in some good games and is also somewhat recognized (isn't he a fashion designer on the side?). They can't do that shit with Kawazu, because nobody gives a rat's ass about him except core JRPG fans, about whom Square simply doesn't care.
>>381721441
And again, being sleepy and arguing on the net is not a good combo. I've explained it shittily in my initial post. Essentially, post-Sakaguchi's leave and post-Compilation start Nomura gave some interviews about the compilation and how he had these ideas for literally years after working with Sakaguchi and Kitase with VII (this is where my post went to shit, since I failed to explain who exactly created VII and that Nomura was just a designer in that project). His ideas in the 90's, however, were promptly cockblocked by Sakaguchi who was not amused with the game about his mum's death being expanded into the monstrosity that was Compilation. So, he had to wait about a decade to start this shit, but he had the whole Comp planned out already, that's why it burst seemingly out of nowhere like a torrent of shit.
I'm sorry if I'm explaining it like a retard.

>>381721995
>want every new game to be his property
With the exception of Dissidia and KH, I don't know if that's true
>start this shit
It was kitase's and his idea
>but he had the whole Comp planned out already
>Nomura only envisioned the creation of the movie and Before Crisis. Yoshinori Kitase has planned more than Nomura ever imagined and the Compilation is heading towards a very surprising conclusion
http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q4-2004/120104g.html
I don't think you did good research

>>381721995
>because nobody gives a rat's ass about him except core JRPG fans
Sadly most Square fans don't care about him, though sometimes it is hard to say Square fan and not just say Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy fans.

>>381722482
I think I did my research pretty well. Despite all the things this article says Kitase did not have a role in the Comp other than being a producer. He wasn't even a part of Crisis Core team. He didn't envision any conclusion to the Comp by the way, since it's not concluded yet and will only be finished after the remake. It was Nomura's brain child and however much SE tried to tell otherwise you can feel Nomura's clear touch in how those games were written and directed.

>>381723202
>Kitase did not have a role in the Comp other than being a producer
Wrong
>only be finished after the remake
Remake and compilation aren't even in the same universe any longer
>He wasn't even a part of Crisis Core team.
Now you're just an idiot, he was an EP and an event planner

>>381713074
>FFXI a flop
What did he mean by this?