Whatever happened to dynamic stages in 3D fighting games (ie

>>381534838

Nobody liked EITHER of those games

>>381534838
People generally don't like slopes in fighting games man, and for good ass reason.

>>381534838
>Virtua Fighter 3 and Tekken 4 had them
Well that explains it

>>381535205

Were they really THAT bad?

>>381535247
I never felt like it was particularly fun for anyone. You have it and you never really put the stage in mind for any particular strategy. Just suddenly you're in position to knock them into a stage wall with some cutscene or you just wiff a good opening for an attack because the elevation was awkward or some weird piece of scenery got in the way.

>>381534903
>>381535205
>>381535603

Weren't they the games that while had a lot of issues, it had features that wouldn't be fully realised until the later games? Kinda need a game that would be the guinea pig to test those features.

>>381535728
I guess you could call them guinea pig games, but you have to remember a lot of things you experiment with sometimes are better left in the dust once you find out they don't particularly work well.

You mean stages you can interact with outside of walls or specifically objects in the middle of the stages that block your movement. If the former, Tekken has stages where you can break down the floor and drop the opponent down it.

FGC fags bitched and moaned

>>381535959

Which one?

>>381536453
7.

>>381534838
It introduced a lot of issues while adding very little besides a "it sure looks more realistic!" feel.

I do feel like dynamic stage have to make a comeback for beat-em-ups such Final Fight and Streets of Rage.
They don't make sense elsewhere.

I unironically love Tekken 4 tho.

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>>381534903
I wish the airport stage came back. Was really nice having a bigass stage with walls

>>381534838
Everyone fucking hated those stages in Tekken4, Tekken7 has a few of them anyway

As far as T4 is concerned it was more the wonky juggle/wall juggle physics in that one that was a problem and not the way the stages were (though there was weird situational bullshit that could be done one some stages). They probably didn't need to backpedal as hard as they did in 5 here.

>>381537978
If you just put 5's mechanics in there stuff like different floor elevation would still be bad and add very little strategy.

>>381534838
same as smash where the gimmicky stages mostly aren't fun even for casuals

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>>381537609
At least you can use old music from other games.
>Replacing Dragon's Nest BGM with Those Who Go to Heaven from Tekken 5
As it should be

>>381534838
It typically devolved the matches into
>there's that one area of the stage with the cheap stuff
>most of the match was spent just trying to get there
>rinse and repeat

Slopes in fighting games can cause attacks to whiff depending on whether you were higher or lower.

Top level matches often ended up being a movement race to get to the highest point.

>>381538384

I purposely didn't mention Smash because that game does things differently.

>>381539246
but i think some of the same principles apply, where the more you play the less you want weird crap affecting the match

>>381534838
>dynamic stages in 3D fighting games
not tournament legal

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>>381534838
gotchu senpai

>>381537978
The biggest problem with slopes is that the lower character has the advantage since higher attacks will go over their heads. Combining this with Xiao and Lei(more Xiao though) results in some serious bullshit

>Muh balance

Blame everything fun being removed from fighters because of tourney fags and the cancerous FGC.

>>381535247
>Were they really THAT bad?

Tekken 4 yes, Virtua Fighter 3 absolutely not

People make a lot of weird assumptions about VF3 without ever actually playing it.

>>381540747
>Player gets good enough to know how exploit one of these """fun""" features
>Ruins the game for everyone who's not exploiting this

>>381534838
Because of MUH BALANCE

>>381541312
Hey look it's one of them

>>381540415
>7.0

>>381541452
Good to see you can't actually defend your point.

>>381541547
Alright your statement was retarded. Are you implying that only 1 person can learn an exploit? Why isn't anyone else using it? And if it's just one person, how is it effecting "everyone"? Are they all playing at one big arcade machine and winner gets to stay?

Think before you type stupid statements.

>>381541705
>Why isn't anyone else using it
Not everyone knows how yet, they'll be forced to if they wanna win.
>And if it's just one person, how is it effecting "everyone"
Everyone who doesn't know said exploit.
>Are they all playing at one big arcade machine and winner gets to stay?
Plenty of people will play the game only to find the arcade machines in the hands of those who know the exploit, and everyone who's not doing the same will lose a quarter thanks to a cheap exploit.
This can lead to:
1) People getting frustrated and avoiding playing the game because even if you're good said exploit is way too unfair and even if you master all the other mechanics you're still going to eat an infinite or find yourself at an inescapable situation.
2)This makes the metagame stale and boring. Most if not all the unique play-styles and mechanics get ignored because the meta game turns into exploit this to win.

You know shit how games actually work in a scene in where you pay money to play until you lose.

>>381541705
That turns the game into just exploiting the poorly implemented mechanic when someone who knows the exploit is present. Since the thread is about T4 that means it's an arcade game, those places are always filled with very skilled players who will find and abuse anything broken in the game.
Exploits and gimmicks can be fun if they integrate well with other mechanics and play styles but things like some of the stages in T4 led to retarded situations in which hits and combos would either become useless and even whiff entirely or become too OP and lead to infinites depending on very specific parts of the terrain. T5 added walls in a way in which there was a clear advantage in corner mix ups and combos but without most of the retarded scenarios T4 presented.

>>381534838
Why has no other fighting game after battle raper ever tried to expand on the power-ups scattered throughout the stage mechanic?

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>>381541705
>Shits on tourneyfags
>Doesn't know shit how arcades operate
Typical.

>>381542341
>>381543246
>>381543991
Arcades are fuckin dead

>>381544051
Not in Asia, the place in where Tekken and most fighters make most of their income.

>>381540747
I actually agree that when used as a competitive game, certain random elements outside the core gameplay should be taken out/minimized.

But at the same time, including these for casual play, or a story/challenge mode or whatever can be fun.

>>381544115
We're not talking about asia, we're talking about america

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>>381544181
>America
>Relevant while discussing arcades

>>381535247
Tekken 4 was honestly the pinnacle of the series artistically.

The problem with it is it came after Tekken Tag. Tag was the perfect arcade game. 4 was experimental - sidestep, dynamic stages, position change grabs. Most of it did not work out. Balance was also pretty bad and a lot of the stuff was broken/poorly implemented.

That's why with 5, they went back to focusing on the arcade aspect of the series. Threw out any sense of moving the story in a sensible way and just brought back every character ever a la Tag - Baek, Bruce, Wang, Ganryu etc. - even though they were written out of the story years ago and had replacements. Story mode turned to shit.

It was a matter of timing and context but Tekken 4 wasn't as bad as people say it is.

>>381544181
Please show me the post that states this conversation is only about American arcades.

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>>381534838
Unrelated to the question but Tekken 4's atmosphere was GOAT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlSkIzTJ9UY

>>381544314
Early Tekken games where really unbalanced but I think the problem with 4 was that it was not only unbalanced but a lot of the new mechanics were poorly implemented. 4 was cool as fuck in almost any other way though

>>381534838

Fuck, that's not how I remember Tekken 4... It looks like shite.

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>>381544542
>Unrelated to the question but Tekken 4's atmosphere was GOAT.

A lot of the early PS2 games are like that. Japan was at a creative high with the release of the limits of PS1 but sort of choked the execution and went into a slump near the end of sixth gen (iirc) which continued well into the PS3 era.

>>381540747
Having tiers automatically disaprove balance exist.

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>>381544542
>Unrelated to the question but Tekken 4's atmosphere was GOAT.
I agree, I recently checked the game out again after all those years, and some of the music is brilliant. Love this one especially, really dark and moody, totally went past me back then
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L49d0qg-9fg

Tekken Tag 1 = fun and fast
Tekken 4 = Edgy tryhard shit that removed the fun to be a super serious story and more realistic movement (slowed down) like every PS360 reboot made by new developers. Removed the more interesting characters because they were deemed too goofy.
Tekken 5 = fun and fast

>>381547249
They were removed for being too similar to their originals, which was true with the exception of Bruce/Bryan, who still shared a lot of moves.

5 is when all of the Tekken 2 characters got differentiated from their counterparts.

Why did they turn hwaorong into a faggy pirate in tekken 7?

>>381547736
Yeah Jack, Roger, and Ganryu were totally clones.

>>381537106
>i do feel.. make a comback.. beat-em ups
tekken 7 story mode and arcade are disappointing

>>381548153
Because of a grenade.

>>381540747
>this comment again
atleast read the thread