Now that the dust has settled, what went wrong?

Chalice dungeons. Tedious filler that spits on what made the series good in the first place.

>>381454130
You making this thread

>>381454496
They weren't that bad but I wouldn't have minded them being removed to add another area or two to the base game. Bloodborne felt a little on the short side.

nothing, it's a good game. But for some reason after i did the plat I've never touched it since then. With DaS and DaS2 I've wasted 1000+ hours with lots of characters, in bloodborne i have only 1 character and 70 hours.

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>>381454130
Nothing. The game was pure kino.
>>381454496
Completely optional.

>>381454130
tried way too hard to be sickdark, just ended up being cringy

>>381454748
optional != immune from criticism, it's in the game and they spent time and resources making it.

>>381454130
blood viles

No shields, No block... Just roll around tue clock.

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It doesn't matter if From and Sony Japan Studio make another Bloodborne; as long as it is on the ShitStation 4 I won't buy it.

Sony needs to make the PlayStation 5 already that can provide the following:

Bloodborne The Old Hunter Edition REMASTERED
4K(1440p is "fine'' as long as it has 144fps option) 60fps MAX SETTINGS.
- no frame pacing issues - no chromatic abberation
- option to disable motion blur and depth of field
- reduced loading times to 5-10 sec (my SSD loads DS3 in 3sec).

THEN and ONLY THEN, will I buy a Sony product.

As long as ShitStation 4 is their main device I won't buy their games. Period.

>>381454807
I'm surprised I never experienced anything like that in all of my 300 hours

Chalice Dungeons
Bell Women
PvP in general
Armor is pointless
Multi-Enemy bosses even though DS2 gets more shit for it

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>>381454807
A Team strikes again!

>>381454748
>Completely optional.
not if you want to do NG+ (which is also optional)
Stop with this nonsense, I love the game but the Chalice Dungeons are easily the worst part of the game after doing a few of them and just in case you try the
>but I never said they weren't bad
bullshit, I'll stop you right there before you try that again
It's an awesome game but it has some flaws and the Chalice Dungeons are definitely one of them
Cut content would be another
I won't go into it much further, though

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>>381454130
the same thing that goes wrong with all souls games

_____________________it's shit________________________________

>>381454971
stop making pcbros look bad

i never played bloodborn because I'm a Christian
the game is filled with demonic symbolism

You know, they certainly weren't well done, but at least chalice dungeons were a good idea. Its retarded that they didn't at least attempt to improve them and put them in DS3

chalice dungeons and pvp

>chalice dungeons
>invasions and non-organised pvp may as well not exist outside of one area
>warping/restocking item system was tedious as fuck
>bloodgem system was grindy as fuck and a downgrade to infusions in every way
>getting upgrade materials before finishing all the chalice dungeons was a huge grind which discouraged experimenting with new weapons
>too much focus on beasts and no enough on cosmic horror, game feels practically over after Rom
>lots of mediocre boss fights
>no pc port

Still my favorite in the series though

no respec'ing

-Healing system was a step backwards, having to grind for vials. Limiting how many you could hold was a great move though, even if 20 is a bit high.
-Having to warp back to the Hunter's Dream to warp anywhere else is annoying.
-Taking double damage for getting hit while dodging is excessive and accounts for many instances of one-hit deaths.
-Netcode is still not acceptable.

That's all. It's a five star game but I still prefer Dark Souls 1.

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>>381454130
Cool concept but a lot of the areas have visual glitches everywhere. Lack of options (like being able to put weapons on both hands or handguns on both hands), cutting the shield department down to what we got eliminated a big aspect of the gameplay of past games (managing stamina, upgrading shields, different shield for different defenses), weight limit completely removed, armor/attire upgrading completely removed, short game (with a lot f mechanics from the past games removed as stated before), a lot of the stuff you do doesn't reward you with anything gameplay-significant (getting the yharnam stone does nothing, getting the ring of bethrodal does nothig, reviving Annalise does nothing, at least in the other games you would have gottan a spell or a boss weapon or something), story so left to interpretation most people can't agree on the main plot (I actually like this, but people tend to not understand there isn't supposed to be a right answer to the lore, as stated by Miyazaki).

Good game, but feels to barebones compared to the other souls games which is a shame because it's really unique.

>>381455805
Forgot to mention some awful bosses. The One Reborn and Ebrietas are just a mass of limbs that are incredibly difficult to keep track of.

>>381454971
Go fuck yourself

>>381454496
>Chalice dungeons. Tedious filler that spits on what made the series good in the first place.
That's really the only complaint. Ditch that autogenerated crap and build me some more real levels.

>>381454768
>tried way too hard to be sickdark, just ended up being cringy
Couldn't disagree more. The grimblackdarkness is laid on a bit thick, almost veering into comedy at times, but I think that was intentional. Boss designs are some of my favorite monsters ever.

>>381454130
Backsteps don't give i-frames like DaS2 (especially bad since most weapons have FOUR unique backstep attacks)
No control options for jumping like DaS2
No auto-hide HUD option like DaS2
Can't use items on ladders like DaS2
Can't warp from lantern to lantern like DaS2
No auto-restocking of consumables besides vials and bullets
Arcane is useless shit unless you like backpedaling and spamming projectiles (and even that doesn't work on high NG+, I've done 99 Arc), Parasite and Tonitrus are the only viable weapons, everything else is better on a quality build
Bloodtinge is poorly balanced, useless early on, overpowered as soon as you get the Chikage
Some of the NPC quest lines are ridiculously obtuse
Nightfall/Bloodmoon doesn't change that much. The sleeping giants in Cathedral Ward made me think the whole game would be full of changed enemy behaviour but it's not.
Non-randomized chalices. Why do these exist. Root chalices are fun but going through the same dungeons on a 2nd character is painful, so you have to either do everything on one character or settle for Mensis/Hamlet gems, which are also a pain to grind for.
It's not on PC (although if it had been published by Bamco instead of Sony, From probably wouldn't have had the creative freedom to make such a masterpiece)

Other than that it's the best game in the series and in my top 3 of all time.

Can't finish character builds until NG+

>>381455307
And you kill them. Or do you not enjoy slaying demons?

>>381454496
Chalice dungeons were fine they just needed some not shitty rewards.

>>381455307
>OP: So what did you think of this game?
>Anon: No idea, I didn't play it.
>Anon: But I know I wouldn't like it.
Very valuable addition to the thread, thanks.

Framerate/timing and performance. That's it. Also, stuck at 1080p with no pro patch

People hate chalice ds

But ive played them for 8k hours on my level 40 to 60 builds and they are glorious.
Best new risk by far. Risky Proof of concepts are what from do best nowadays
When they dont get to do those thing (ds2 and ds3) then the game feels meh

30 fps, and it can't even manage that a lot of the time

>>381455881
>cutting the shield department down to what we got eliminated a big aspect of the gameplay of past games (managing stamina, upgrading shields, different shield for different defenses)
There was a tube review a while back (bomberguy, i think) arguing that removing shields was one of the best moves they made. Basis being that while those alternate styles (that and magic) were available in DS, they were boring as shit. Basically, fast dodge/parry based melee builds were the most fun way to play Souls, so for bloodborne they just stripped out the superfluous material. Not 100% sure I agree, but it's an interesting argument.

>>381455136
what? you can go to NG+ without doing a single chalice dungeon.

>>381454130
>what went wrong?

a few performance issues in central yharnam and at that place with all the spiders.
everything else not related to performance is personal taste

>>381456840
>People hate chalice ds
>But ive played them for 8k hours on my level 40 to 60 builds and they are glorious.
>Best new risk by far. Risky Proof of concepts are what from do best nowadays
Should clarify, for my one voice anyway. I don't hate the CONCEPT of chalice dungeons. Just this specific implementation. They become dull and repetitive super quickly. And when compared to the designed levels in the main game, they just feel flat.

Had they spent a lot more time on how the dungeons were generated and added a lot more components (rooms and enemies) to the randomizer, they might have had something. But what we got in BB feels like an afterthought.

>>381454768
no I think that's you trying to act adult. there'll be a time, where you can enjoy things, without overthinking it, anon

>>381454130
? I liked it

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>>381454807
>Once again its this guy, who has an arsenal of webms showcasing bugs in bloodborne.
Wonder who can be behind this post.

>>381454130
BYRGENWERTH

THE AREA IS TOO SMALL

INTRODUCES GRINDING AND FARMING INTO THE MAIN GAME (THOUGH BOSSES TOO CLOSE)

AND IT IS UNFINISHED - WHY IS THERE NOTHING BENEATH THE TRAP DOOR FROM???

I liked it. It was flawed, but incredibly fun regardless. Chalice dungeons felt like they tried to give the game some extra replayability. However, farming for chalice items sucks, and the dungeons themselves are very boring compared to the rest of the bloodborne world.

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>>381457195
That argument only holds true if you agree with him in that the shield way of playing is boring, which I think that while a lot of people agree, there are also a lot of people who disagree, and by cutting out the shield mechanics your putting a middle finger to those who enjoyed that type of gameplay. My problem with it is that it cuts out a different way of playing the game just because some people deem it superfluous. When I was done playing the game by doging only I wished there was another way to play the game so it would feel fresh, but the game doesn't give you that extra option. This idea of stripping out the gameplay from mechanics well established in the past games seems bs to me. Some pople could say it doesn't fit the game's atmosphere, but you could make it fit with some creativity. Why not have a faction in the game that believed in protection over hostility because they knew violence led to beasthood or some shit and have a bunch of good shields that need upgrading for proper functioning and say they were a rarity in the game's city or something?

I don't know, I guess I just like how in the other games you could just walk around and feel like a character, either with a shield and bulky armor or just a light dude with daggers and so. In BB you're always just a dude who moves fast and any semblance or heavyness is gone eaven if you use the big str weapons.

Invasions being tied to an easy to find and kill enemy

>>381454807
Thats sucks but thats pretty hilarious.

Too short
Blood vials are a huge step down from estus
Parrying is overpowered, making the game too easy
Bosses are kinda bad compared to dark souls, and plus the parrying shit I think the only good one is orphan
Too much city
I don't like the aesthetic that much but that's just me

>>381458119
So?

Invading in cainhurst/burgerworth/unseen/upperward are virtually uneffected by this

>>381457195
>Basically, fast dodge/parry based melee builds were the most fun way to play Souls, so for bloodborne they just stripped out the superfluous material.
Pretty much yeah. They looked at DeS/DaS/DaS2, saw that everyone ends up playing as a fast dodging character anyway (because that's what gitting gud means), and force you to git gud early by making that the only option.
Which also means the whole game is better balanced. There are fights in DaS that are absolutely broken if you have spells or a tower shield. That's not really the case in BB. At least until the DLC ruined the balance by giving you Bowblade and BSE. Seriously, try fighting Ebrietas with the Bowblade sometime.

>>381455881
You technically could have a gun in both hands though.

>>381454807
N-NANI!?!

Bloodborne fixed one big problem with souls games - they made the dodging/rolling look a little bit less silly. DS looks really dumb with it's awesome orchestrated soundtrack and cool looking enemies then you're rolling around like a douchebag. It ruins the whole game

>>381458496
It shouldn't be tied to an enemy at all. I loved bloodborne I even platinumed it. But that ruined the whole point of invasion of being unexpected. If they were going to have it tied to an enemy at least make them at least on par with a hunter type enemy and if not that have them spawn in random spots and not just in the same place everytime.

>>381454496
>>381454698
>area or two
Nope. 3-5 the we could talk. They needed just a bit more polish and they would have been great instead of good for a while

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>>381455030
someone post the brick troll one

>>381454130
No PC version

>Ds1 2 and 3
>on steam
>/v/ loves them

>Demons and BB
>not on steam
>/v/ hates them

>>381459183
Shockwaves are back lol.

>>381458110
That's fair, like I said I wasn't 100% on the same page. Guy made some good points though. IIRC the thrust of it was not only that turtling up was more boring, but that it was what new player's tended to lean toward because DS is damn scary. Therefore, they wouldn't even realize other strategies were an option and would have less fun with the game. The video might even have been called "bloodborne teaches people how to play dark souls" or something like that.

Maybe the right "answer" would be to have other factions with more defensive and/or ranged styles, but have them only unlock after your first playthrough with the standard 1H+gun loadout.

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>>381459272
shockwaves??

>>381455307
I am too. Play it, you are killing a bunch of demons.

>>381454130
Give it a few more years and this will be remembered as one of the greatest games off all time, just like what happened with Dark Souls

>>381459794
>werewolves and aliens are "demons"
???

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>>381454130
I started BB last week, and I don't have PS Plus, but I was able to play online for a couple of days with no problem, but now the game won't let me play online without a PS Plus account.
Does anyone know what was up with that? Has this happened to anyone else? Was there some kind of a free BB online week?

>>381459883
There wasn't a free week, you might of had a trial active or something

>>381459883
Happened to me. It wasn't the free psn plus weekend because I had online for like a week before it told me I couldn't online anymore. I guess it's just random luck.

>>381454748
>shitty dungeons where all the content that should have been included in true areas was put
>optional

garbage online mechanics
trick weapons all all kind of bland pre-DLC
chalice dungeons are an unfun time sink, and wasted development time
Becoming a beast and an ayylmao should have been better explored mechanically before the DLC

I want to be le funny exaggeration man and stress how ugly it is aesthetically but in a series that includes dark souls 2 and 3 it isn't even close to being the worst. You thought you were sick of ugly goopy grey levels in bloodborne? Here's DS3, which has the same thing except without an interesting backbone of victorian/gothic architecture. It's still a really ugly game though, so it can't even use "muh grafix" to excuse its framerate.

It's still a really good game, and near the top of my soulsborne list, but it's got a lot of problems

No domino mask

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>Chalice dungeons become real repetitive shit real fast.
>More than half of the bosses are gimmick shit.

The DLC on the other hand did everything right. Great areas and great bosses, even Living Failures was good compared to shit like Celestial Emissary. The bosses in the main game that were good on the other hand were REALLY good. Martyr Logarius is probably in my top 10 even if the walk to him is tedious.

>>381459861
Are we really going to try and classify the beasties in BB?

They're pretty obviously intended to be lovecraftian "outside of time and space" entities. Their portrayal as 'demons' is more a function of the setting around them, I think. You're set up to see it that way basically until the third act, of course, but anyone who's finished the game knows what I mean.

>>381454130
-grinding for vials was a step backwards
-transforming weapons greatly cut down on the amount of weapon choices
-most clothing sets have terrible stats. very few armors
-2 shields and they're both gimmicky
-enemies no longer have rare equip drops
-tombstone warp locations don't make sense and almost half the game was loaded on the first tombstone
-rally was a mistake. getting free heals for quickly attacking after getting hurt was a giant scrub mechanic
-chalice dungeons were a mistake in many ways

visually the game has some minor issues making it seem rushed. you can find misplaced polygon seams and in many areas you're not supposed to look below bridges and whatnot.

>>381461408
Actually, most "aliens" in BB were humans who either ascended, got turned into by experimentation, or went mad and turned into "aliens," and all the beasts were once men.

>>381457195
bomberguy is a fucking retard

>>381458791
>>381458791
This. The sidetepping/dashing looks and feels more natural than a roll.
You wouldn't do a full on sommersault to evade a little sword poke.

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Dude, fuck off.

>>381457548
If they added more to the dungeon than just find switch>kill boss> repeat

I think it may have been way better. Give me some shit i have to solve or do besides kill everything. Got boring fast. The isz and loran dongeons had some better rooms but are just pthumeru reskinned in the end. Better loot or new items for exploring.

Honestly i would have made it a long ass dungeon where using the next chalice at the end of the level continues deeper instead of having to keep track of every chalice

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>>381457195
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC3OuLU5XCw
This is the video that you were thinking of.

Overall, I disagree with his core argument that Bloodborne introduces players to the right way to play the other games. There is a reason that you get the shield before your weapon in Dark Souls 1. Being cautious is not inherently boring. The shield is a tool that allows the player to properly see an enemy's moveset before engaging with them. When you first fight the Capra Demon in Dark Souls you will likely perform better with your shield up at the start. This is not to say that I am against playing the game using dodges, it is just that assuming that dodging is the only proper strategy seems foolish to me.

As a thought experiment lets say that we are playing Super Mario Brothers but the run button is always held down, most people familiar with the game wouldn't have that big of a difference with how they play but it would work against those that are newer to the game because they would have less time to react to what is coming.

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>Take everything that makes Souls fun
>Either ourtight remove it or dumb it down
>Release as a new franchise
>But because its exclusive, it shall forever be immune to criticism

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>>381462082
Rolling under attacks makes more sense than phasing through them by doing a little jump.

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>>381454130

>>381462051
Ever heard the term "argumentum ad hominem", Anon?

Might want to avoid criticizing others' intelligence while your own is so sorely lacking. Draws attention to it, y'know.

>>381463067
t. /pol/ pro

>>381461639
>complains about grinding for vials
>complains about rallying
Rallying exists to lessen the need for grinding. If you had to grind for vials, it's because you were spamming them every time you got scratched, instead of nutting up and rallying your health back. The game is punishing you for being a babby.

>>381462414
>OP makes a thread asking for criticism of BB
>gets balanced discussion with a lot of valid critiques from veteran players
>anon enters the thread
>WOW IMMUNE TO CRITICISM FUCKING FANBOYS
bad post senpai

>>381462365
>As a thought experiment lets say that we are playing Super Mario Brothers but the run button is always held down, most people familiar with the game wouldn't have that big of a difference with how they play but it would work against those that are newer to the game because they would have less time to react to what is coming.
It's an interesting point. I'm not sure I agree with the core argument in that vid either, but I definitely DO agree that taking out shields was a deliberate decision on the part of the developers. I don't think they were just being lazy or didn't get around to it - that was in the design doc from an early point in the process.

>>381455805
>you get double damage for getting hit while dodging

Oooooohhhhhhh.

>>381463564
That's not really true. You take extra damage (less than double) for getting hit in the vulnerability frames at the end of a dodge. You're invulnerable for 90% of it. It's to punish dodging early and spamming dodges with no timing at all.

>>381463487
Sorry, I forgot to tie everything that I said together.

The reason that I didn't like the statement that "BloodBorne teaches the player how to play the other Souls games the right way" is because the games are built fundamentally differently. I don't mind that BloodBorne doesn't have shields, I just don't think that the other games should be put to this standard since they are not built for this.

Overall, my favorite game, but has several flaws. Sometimes the game runs like shit. Feels like its dropping below 5 FPS. Chalice dungeons could have been interesting and fun... but they were not.

>>381465058
As for the topic of the thread I have a few things that I think could have been better with BloodBorne.

For one, I don't like how the guns work in terms of their mechanics. I don't think a ranged parry works well in BloodBorne since the game is primarily built around dodging and being near the enemy. In my opinion while a gun fits better for BB in a aesthetic sense it is not as good as the shield's parry since the shield keeps the player in a danger zone. I would have preferred if, as an example, the stake driver had a sister weapon for the left hand that allowed for parrying since it still fits the aesthetic but keeps the player near the enemy.

Another thing that I thought could be better is pretty minor but I would have preferred if there was a reason, any reason at all, that the door in the cathedral ward opens after beating the Blood-Starved Beast. I dunno, just give the player a key or something.

>>381458110
Bloodborne is not Dark Souls, it follows different design philosophies and Shields were not a part of that philosophy. Everything in the game is designed around you being aggressive instead of standing behind a shield and blocking an attack before you engage.

>>381454130
>>381454496
If you could combine depths 1-3 it would befine. Depth 5 FRC dungeons are fun as balls and god tier coop.

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Also,does anyone remember which retard youtuber it was who made a video about how TOH was "bad DLC" for Bloodborne? I want to say it was superbunnyhop but I have no idea.

>>381466132
>it is not as good as the shield's parry since the shield keeps the player in a danger zone
I think it's a good way to ease the player in to parrying, something DeS/DaS never had. In those games if you got the timing wrong, you take full damage, so the only way to learn to parry a particular move is to get hit by it a bunch of times. I never even bothered trying to parry in DeS until my 3rd playthrough because it's always safer to block or dodge.

In BB, you can parry up close, or parry from a distance, both have pros and cons.
Distant parries are safe if you miss, but the timing is slightly altered because of the travel time of the bullet and you're not in position to riposte if successful.
Parrying at point-blank has a greater risk, but the timing is exact and you can riposte right away, which can save your ass if you're surrounded by enemies and can use the iframes.
So when you're new you parry from a distance to figure out which attacks are parryable at all, and get a sense of the timing and the tells for each move, then when you're more confident you stand right in the enemy's face and parry them consistently.

Also the fact that the parry can cause stagger on its own gives you a safe environment to learn the timing. If you shoot early you might stagger the enemy and avoid the attack anyway. The game reinforces this with the pistol/shotgun choice. The shotgun is better for staggering but worse for parrying, so it's a learning tool for new players that you replace with a pistol once you're confident.

Also also consider the way it interacts with regain. If you parry an enemy and they hit you at the same time, but you pull through the land the riposte you get ALL your health back. That shit is intensely satisfying and DaS3 completely undoes it.

tl;dr parrying with guns is rad

>>381468941
One other thing I adore about BB that you didn't mention - you can parry heal attempts. This is so fucking great for PVP.