What made MGS3 so great?

>>381363103
the nanomachines

>>381363103
Memes
Not kidding

CQC being overpowered as fuck.

>>381363103
sixshooter jungle cat was pretty good

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>>381363103
(>>381355869 continued)

>1st: MGS2
+fastest-paced, best aesthetics, (probably) most difficult. the only MGS game to satisfy the standards of Arcade Culture
-nothing

>2nd: MGSV's Camp Omega and OKB Zero
+In-game stealth at its most immersive, dense and complex. highest graphics.
-everything else in the game

>3rd: MGS
+maximises early 3D. one perfect set-piece after another. good aesthetics. introduced good CQC.
-not this game specifically but early 3D aged badly

>4th: MGS3
+great aesthetics, good all-rounder and very cosy/comfy
-introduced Tactical Espionage Crawling to the series

>5th+: remaining garbage movies, handhelds, and spin-offs

>>381366443
>MGS > MGS3
NO. The rest is correct.

>>381363103

>Bosses
>Story
>Open Areas and not open world garbage
>Details and Technology
>Cool healing gimmick
>Eva's tits
>Young Ocelot

>>381366443
> MGS2
> best

boss fights were garbage and too much backtracking

>>381363103
Naked snake is a very good contrast to solid and raiden in this game, and it set up the parts of later games that needed to be explained (why big boss became the man he did, the foundation of the patriots) in interesting and subtle ways while still being a mostly self contained story like MGS1 and 2 were.

It continued to push the envelope of visuals that the last two games made. Not just in terms of pure graphic power but in terms of making the environments and world feel real due to how many small details they have.

It's easier than the last two games and you can get away with playing the game in a more combat heavy style.

>>381366443
MGS1 is faster than 2 is

>>381368347
just because they are the most difficult doesn't make them garbage. MGS3 basically dumbed-down the first-person shooting bosses, and The Boss pathetically easier than Solidus once you know how the counter-attack works. Raging Raven dumbed down the Harrier Jet, which was the Hind D on steroids.

>too much backtracking
Not exactly an issue since you either have to approach the map from a different angle, or adjust to the fact that the patrols have changed. Substance has an insane amount of content, so you can't really say backtracking was designed to hide a lack.

What a thrill...

>>381369149
Nope, the maps are bigger on 1. 2 is the twitchiest.

>>381369384
> just because they are the most difficult doesn't make them garbage

who was even talking about difficulty?

> and The Boss pathetically easier than Solidus once you know how the counter-attack works

good thing is that The Boss is still a much more entertaining boss fight, consider it allows you to use the environment to your advantage, or just CQC her, while with Solidus you're stuck with whacking him with a sword and dodging him sometimes.

> Raging Raven

that's from MGS4

>>381369645
MGS1 doesn't have you stop to first person aim constantly, you can toss guards to the ground and as long as you aren't around when they stand up it's not alert/caution (so you can speed through areas without stopping at all if you know the route or just have a good reaction) and you can run over loud floors by constantly equipping and unequipping a weapon (you can roll over them in MGS2 but that only works for floors of a certain size). You can also get away with just leaving an area to avoid guards a lot more than you can in MGS2, where guards following you between areas and reacting to stuff you did in an area previously on a return trip are big parts of the enemy AI

I'm also pretty sure that snake just plain runs faster in mgs1, especially since certain weapons make him speed up even more, but maybe raiden flipping is the same.

>>381363103
the new camera system
CQC

there was a lot of stuff that made it immersive too like the needing to eat, the injury system, snake eventually liking something he didn't eat by eating it over and over, shooting out guard radios (unsure if this originated from mgs2 or not), your actions directly effecting the way enemy soldiers act (blowing up food storehouses makes them easier to hear/spot as they groan and complain about hunger pangs)

the story was great, it was like a cheesy james bond knockoff, the bosses were fun to fight and had unique strategies to make fighting them easier (snow camo against the pain, flashbanging and shooting the fear to empty his stamina, or poisoning him with frogs, slashing the fury's suit open, the sorrow being as difficult as you want, using the raikov mask and mushrooms against volgin, and CQCing the boss)

>>381369947
The Boss fight basically comes down to two things: take cover from the bullets then counter-CQC. That's the laughable skill-ceiling. "use the environment" comes down to lying in the grass or hiding behind trees, not something especially interesting in the context of a CQC boss fight. They could have made it more beat em up.

Solidus at least requires a more frantic approach to dodging and attacking, it's more intense and difficult, therefore more immersive. Also being the only sword fight boss in MGS is pretty cool.

>>381370182
If you attempt a no-traces run of both games, then the remainder of what you say comes down to MGS1 simply being a less complex or challenging version of 2. 2 is faster at the highest level.

>>381371414
>If you fit the game into this specific arbitrary playstyle that favors MGS2 more, MGS2 is faster

ok. MGS1 is still an overall faster game. That doesn't mean MGS2 is bad or doesn't have things it does better.

>>381363103
It wasn't that great, though. MGS 2 is far superior.

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>>381371124
His voice actor is also dead so we will never hear that wonderful voice again

>>381371632
Are you baiting? MGS2 has WAY MORE maps than 1, yet they both have similar playtimes once you get gud at them (1-2 hours). Proficiency is not an arbitrary play-through. Some Tanker mission rooms can be cleared in less than 30 seconds. Fucking idiot.

>>381372438
You are talking about game completion speed and not speed of the character.

>>381372607
>You are talking about game completion speed and not speed of the character.
The original point of contention is whether 2 is the "fastest-paced" game, not whether the fucking avatar has the fastest running speed across the map or whatever myopic shit you're thinking of.

>>381363103
It had really great gameplay and likeable characters. I always thought the Boss was overrated and the story over all wasn't as good as MGS1 or 2 but it's still good.

I can't go back to playing MGS2 because MGS3 just outshines it in every way.

>>381373198
>gameplay
There's that word again.

>>381373198
I really don't see why people shill MGS1's story so much

it was the most simple spy flick, with Snake being the only character whom I could take serioouly

>>381373806
MGS2 has better solider AI and doesn't have CQC/shotgun and camo to semi break the game

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OP here checking in to call you all faggots. This whole post was just created to show off my epic meme.

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>>381374857
is this you?

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>>381374924
N-No!

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>>381375008

>>381374076
Nothing in mgs is particularly well written, if it were a novel it'd be terrible, it's just that they way the game revealed each part was enticing. The problem is the exposition was all tease and no content, we end up with ham fisted villains who take incredible drastic action to achieve virtually nothing like training a soldier and who have no motivation whatsoever for doing so.

>>381374076

Nostalgia.

It was basically a 3D remake of MG2 with a ham fisted 'brothers' story added in. It was revolutionary in its day though as Hollywood movie style stories hadn't been done in a game before, or at least not in a game that hit the big-time.

>>381375223

This was always the most surreal part of criticisms from fans of the series of the post MGS3 games. Like as though the series has ever at any point maintained any sort of writing standard or that anything could constitute as "jumping the shark" in a series like MGS.

>>381375825
The difference is that the stories in the older MGS games were enjoyable, designed as a setup for fun gameplay scenarios, largely stand alone and (hamfistedly) deal with genuinely interesting themes. The later games do none of these things and the flaws of the earlier games are enhanced.

Trying to downplay them by saying they're badly written, the awkwardness that comes from translating japanese into english set aside, is like saying a book has a bad story because it's not interactive enough or that a film has a bad story because it doesn't spend enough time describing things, you fundamentally don't understand that different mediums have different standards. No this is not me saying "it's okay that it sucks, it's a video game", but that video game stories have different requirements in order to be good that are different from other types of media, and trying to compare the two is retarded.

>>381375825
The difference is simple. Everything before 4 is charming, crazy spy-movie cinematics.

4 instead had extended commentary about things like war that seemed to more related to general/real-life than to the context of the game itself. the rest was also an unnecessary attempt to tie-up plotholes and character relationships, which has rightfully earned it the title of fanfiction.

V is a downgrade in the sense that it no longer has cinematics, instead the story is told in the style of mission briefings/recordings. It's like if MGS1 only had the briefings between Snake and the Colonel, instead of the plethora of awesome action movie scenes.

>>381376514
Great post.