TF2

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I don't even care anymore. The most fun thing in the game is gone.

>>381301004
hello darkness my old friend

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the new mantreads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3ncHrm_8Io

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>>381301079
old LnL was not the problem you retard
it was damage spread MAKING IT A PROBLEM

>you will never see sniper get a worthwhile nerf to remove quickscoping niggers

>>381301004
wtf is it really gone?
what changed?

>>381301004

Is the warp assassin combo death too?

>Players that are head-shot from across the map are expecting to see a Sniper in their death-cam, but they sometimes see (more often that we'd like) a Spy with a revolver

>Goal: Reduce the effective combat range to something more reasonable and expected with the Spy

You can't be fucking serious. Spies have trouble enough scoring kills, and now you want to get rid of their only weapon that doesn't require being in close quarters to obtain kills?!

>Make Sniper's immune to Afterburn and 50% damage reduction to fire in addition to +25HP
>Sniper can now basically melee a Pyro to death with no danger to them whatsoever, and if you have a full fire loadout you're fucked against a Sniper at this point

The only thing that gives me hope is that the changes get some heavy feedback, and that they're not only not finished yet, there will also be more.

As for changes that haven't happened yet, I kind of wish revolvers got a slight damage bump, like 15% across the board, except for Ambassador/Diamondback, just to make them more competitive and actually more of a danger in close range.

>Mantreads
>+75% push-force reduction now includes airblast
>Added: +200% air control when blast jumping
Interdasting

>>381301382
>Reddit spacing
>?!
>Defending spies
Try getting gud faggot

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>>381301550
>reddit spacing

>>381301550
>Muh Reddit boogeyman
>Using "?!" is apparently some kind of heresy against 4chan Imperial decor.

Let's see you try getting kills playing spy.

These changes are pretty great 2bh.

HEAVY BUFFED
>All miniguns
>The 1-second damage and accuracy penalty now applies to the first second of spun-up time, whether or not the Heavy is firing. Previously, the 1-second damage penalty would only be removed after 1 second of firing.
>Accuracy and damage penalties now reset when the Heavy spins down, rather than when the Heavy stops firing. This means if you stay spun-up beyond one second, and fire in bursts, damage and accuracy will remain at 100%.

>>381301050
Soldier fortress 2 is now a reality

>YER has no disguise remove
Chaos will immediately insue

>>381301631
>How dare people tell me to make my posts more readable

>>381301665
>What do you mean? You expect me to backstab people as a spy?
Back the fuck off?!

>>381301726
LITTLE BABY MEN CAN'T HANDLE HEAVY

>>381301050
u ready for that sweet 6soldiers vs 6 soldiers fun?
the game is fucked

Jesus rocket jumping maps are about to get crazy

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>>381301909
>tfw soldier main
this is going to be a great update

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>Dead niggers can no longer run to an ammo pack or a dispenser
>They have to fucking WAIT

>>381300914
Hole-e fuck that ambassador nerf destroys it and that fucking eternal reward buff and nerf isn't gonna do shit for it's play rate. Who the hell is going to use it when it's essentially now a normal knife that disguises you on backstab and drains your cloak drain by 50 fucking percent.

>>381301050
>>381301909
Excited as fuck to play mantreads + airstrike soldier.
You can keep crying, babies.

>>381301909
You're forgetting that mantreads are the least used unlock by far and even with that they don't have that much to offer over banners, gunboats or shotgun.

lmao this why blizzards game is shitting on yours

>>381301998
>that fucking eternal reward buff and nerf isn't gonna do shit for it's play rate
I fucking love YER, and these changes sound cool as fuck.

>those sniper changes
Wut

>>381301880
>"Reddit spacing" is a stupid meme
>How dare you criticize my memes! Don't you know that people using extra spaces in between greentexts makes them less readable!

You're insane.

>>381302087
lmao overwatch is gonna die in a couple of years while tf2 is still played a lot after 10 years

Was rescue ranger really that much of a problem? Or base jumper? Or atomizer?

Some of that stuff feels unwarranted.

>>381302073
mantreads were useless before, now they have a purpose and with skill and turn tides

>>381301050
wtf i love tf2 now

>>381301998
I really don't understand what they're trying to do with the YER. Yes it can be strong during the one time the planets align and you can actually backstab more than like 4 people in quick succession, but jesus christ that changes makes me want to use it LESS, not more. Like what the fuck is up with that 50% extra cloak drain rate, it's like they think Disguises actually fool people more often than 20% of the time.

>>381302091
It's more punishing now then it was when you couldn't disguise manually, sure you can get through a sentry nest now but that cloak thing is pretty bad plus not being able to manually disguise was one of the things that made YER interesting to use.

>>381302217
>mantreads were useless before
>>381302073
>mantreads are the least used unlock by far

Weren't they the default secondary for trolldiers before the parachute arrived?

>>381302087
How's that Roadhog going? McCree still a worse Soldier 76 when it was the other way around before? What about that Sombra?

>>381302186
Competitive play. A lot of that shouldn't affect pub play that much anyway, though.

>>381302290
Yeah, maybe 50% is too much, but still like the direction of the changes.

>>381302150
Yes, putting unnecessary spaces every fucking line makes them less readable. Try lurking for a year before posting next time.

>Added overheal debuff to the least-used Sniper passive secondary

Confused face.

>>381302324
they were still shit and gunboats have always been better. Only used on hightower

>>381301050
What if you bhop using this? Do you gain momentum?
Also mfw plebs will use the mantreads now in jump servers

>>381302290
>but that cloak thing is pretty bad plus
well it's 50% cloak drain not total cloak. So cloak drains 150% its normal speed. It's not going to be 5s, it'll be closer to 7s.

>>381302290
It could lead to an interesting rhythm. Obviously you get a free disguise at spawn now, but then you get to pick if your next disguise comes from an enemy or a full ammo pack.

>>381301004
just go play mei in Overtrash if you really want to be a "stunlock then instakill" faggot.

>>381302402
People use Rescue Ranger in comp?

>>381302150
It's a sign of newfaggotry. I started doing it a few years ago because of the typing habits I picked up at the time and people called me out on it.
>using "?!" unironically, outside of literature
Kiss your kys yourself keese quiche my man.

>vita-saw is now a really gimmicky inferior version of the ubersaw that only gives uber after dying

Welp, say goodbye to soldier-medic arena fights.

>>381302476
From what I understand, it was a competitive scene thing where medics would pocket Razorback snipers and it apparently made it so they were fairly unkillable. I really don't understand it much either but I guess I could see it if the Sniper is one of those I-never-miss-a-shot god ones.


I'm hoping the changes they didn't show were ones they knew would be fairly accepted and these are just the ones that they think they needed feedback on, because almost all of these are terrible except for the items that needed to get changed like Bonk, CAC, and DDS.

At least we get a pretty cool sidegrade to the stock shotty.

>>381302594
To defend the last point. It's really good because you can just shoot at your sentry from spawn while being safe and recharging it with the lockers.
It was banned somewhat recently because it was apparently really annoying to play against and made the last push really stalematey.

GRU with a medic buddy literally have no downside now.

>Tomislav Heavy will now be deadly

Bueno

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>>381301004
rip in piece my main nigga, too good for this world.

>>381302740
It reduces MAX Health, meaning if a heavy keeps it out for long enough, he'll be easier to kill than a Kunai spy.

>>381302708
But why the Razorback? All Razorback does is protect against a single fucking backstab. Aside from the Cozy Camper, literally any other secondary in Sniper's arsenal is more useful.

>>381302841
Oh ok then. Now I wonder if it drains both max and current HP when wounded, i.e. if it can be used for escape.

>>381302708
So all players have to suffer because of like five godly snipers in comp and people being salty?

>>381302535
Good thing cant wait to see people cheesing jumps
I want mantread/airstrike servers, imagine the crazy jumps you could pull off

Ambassador ded as shit, diamondback reigns supreme.

>>381302880
>All Razorback does is protect against a single fucking backstab
And when the only two counters to sniper are another sniper and a spy. If you can cut out one of those counters that's a massive advantage. Sniper is the strongest class in HL and the strongest offclass in 6s, anything that makes him stronger is going to hurt balance.

>>381302708
>>381302880
>From what I understand, it was a competitive scene thing where medics would pocket Razorback snipers and it apparently made it so they were fairly unkillable. I really don't understand it much either but I guess I could see it if the Sniper is one of those I-never-miss-a-shot god ones.
Basically the razorback means the sniper can't be backstabbed by the spy leaving the only means of killing him to be the revolver but if the sniper has the medic riding his ass it's damn near impossible for the spy to kill the sniper. It made it so one of the least useful classes in comp was made slightly less useful.

>that new panic attack
Might be good, I've been looking for something a little different from the standard shotgun

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Maybe the Razorback is retarded as fuck regardless and should be REMOVED FROM THE FUCKING GAME.

>>381303013
I mean the thing regenerates now, so it might see some more casual use as well, plus when do you actually get overhealed as a Sniper in pub games?

>>381302880
I can't really understand it either, but I'm guessing it might be due to the fact that it'd be the only thing that could instantly kill you if you were so good that a pocket medic effectively made you invincible.

>>381302929
I wouldn't think so.
The issue with the weapon was that you could run fast into the front lines and be a hulking 300hp (450 with overheal) class that does a lot of damage really fast and there was like no downside to that. So using the weapon to escape when you're low on health should not be a huge problem.

>>381301550
>Git gud faggot.
>A weapon that was only good when you were good with aiming.

irony at its finest

>>381303140
Valve would never remove weapons but it;s obvious there are some they regret making. (Razorback, Sandman, Caber)

>>381303045
>>381303060
What kind of self-respecting comp pocket medic would let a spy get anywhere near his sniper?

The spy isn't a sniper counter. He's a tunnel vision punisher. The biggest counter to snipers are soldiers and pyros, while other snipers are their biggest rivals.

>>381303136
I'm actually a little bummed by the changes, yea the old version sucked as a secondary but it made a really fun primary.

>>381303041
Ambassador is a lot better at close and mid range now. I read a post somewhere from a Valve employee who said that at those ranges the weapon is still pretty much perfectly accurate on the first shot.
Now with the 50% reduced spread, it's gonna be a lot better at killing people in the ranges where the spy is supposed to be good.

>>381303241
>What kind of self-respecting comp pocket medic would let a spy get anywhere near his sniper?
The razorback has been banned in HL for a while now and spy consistently kills sniper more than any other class in plat. If you're going to bring up comp, don't talk out your ass.

>>381303261
I've been looking for a new secondary other than the shotgun seeing as Valve killed my favorite secondary, and my favorite weapon in the entire damn game

>>381300914
>nerf Ambassador range so I can't out-snipe butthurt Snipers anymore

so much for ever coming back to this game

>>381303171
>>A weapon that was only good when you weren't good enough to get backstabs
Exactly

I'm kind of hoping the Ambassador change means that you can fire at the full fire rate now without waiting for the cooldown period and land headshots now, because that would actually be a pretty neat change.

I know it won't happen though because it would actually be a fun change, and it's obvious Valve hates the Spy and Pyro with a passion.

Don't see why people are getting upset over the amby change, you will still get headshots close to mid where it counts.

Seems that only utter plebs are getting salty over this.

>>381301004
>that
>most fun
shitter detected
try sticky jumper + stock GL with demo with whatever melee you prefer
once you git gud, it gets fun as fuck

>oh good they'll save the baby face's blaster
>NOPE
see you in 2018

>>381303261
Yeah, the preloading mechanic was interesting and I hope they introduce a new weapon that keeps it. But now it looks like panic attack will do what it was always supposed to, spam like mad when you're out of primary ammo.

>>381303347
HL? Plat? what the fuck are those?

Why did they shit on Spy so much? His only value is that he's fun to play despite being probably the worst class because all it takes to counter him is to not be braindead. They might as well just delete him.

>>381303241
The spy has the ability of invis, kinda hard to keep him away from something when he can do that. Combine that with the ambassy and you have a dead sniper in 2 shots if the medic isn't overhealing the sniper. And if your sniper is respawning the enemy sniper gets positioning and a few seconds where he can peek around unpunished.

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>>381300914
I love all of these changes.

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>>381303439

>>381303385
Now you actually have to get close and the weapon is a lot better there and you can easily headshot and bodyshot them quickly without fear of spread fucking up your second shot.

>>381303365
That 50% switch speed is really what gets me, it seems like it'd make it so fucking useful for every class that can use it.

>Soldier can use it as a finisher when out of rockets due to it whipping out fast and can still deal the same damage as a shotgun if all the pellets hit, same with Heavy but not really as useful but Stock isn't either
>Pyro can probably use it with the Degreaser to get instant shots off to heckle Soldiers
>Engie can use it to switch to wrench faster or to blast a Spy off if it's only switch TO and not from

>ruining ambassador
>ruining sandman
>ruining flying guillotine
>ruining flares on Snipers

I think they deliberately picked out the most fun things to use to nerf

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>>381301004
>was regretting selling my strange guillotine
>buy a normal one and have some cool clutch kills
>this happens
fuck valve, I guess solider is the only class allowed to have fun in nu-tf2.

>>381303445
If the problems are bullets rather than backstabs, why isn't it Danger Shield Snipers being pocketed? They have bullet resistance and higher health+overheal cap. Sure, Soldiers and Demos can step on them easier, but that goes for all Snipers, not just Danger Shields.

>>381303440
He has been getting a lot of buffs recently.
Also, I'm assuming the pyro is gonna be less of a counter to spy when he gets his big update. Because right now it's just spray and set a spy on fire and I think they're gonna change that.

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>unboxed strange mantreads once and sold them on the market for cheap
>see those new prices because of the balance change
damn

>>381303726
Because then you give the spy the ability to 1 shot you if he can get a backstab as unlikely as it might be. With the razorback and an overheal you get the benefit of not being killable in 2 shots while also not giving the spy the chance to 1 shot kill you.

>>381303440
Yeah, when going 1 on 1 against a spy, sure. He's by far the weakest. But a good spy will wait until you're fully distracted by more important things. And this will happen, you can't afford to think about spies 100% of the time.

I didn't think anyone could be mad at these changes, they are just great for the most part. Some need some adjusting, but they are a work in progress.
I guess shitters are just that shitty.

>he ability to repair buildings safely from range without using metal is powerful. Combine this with the ability to instantly teleport buildings from far away - which by itself is interesting and useful enough in many circumstances - and you end up with a package that is very strong

I thought that outside MvM, the Rescue Ranger's heal purpose wasn't to save sentries, but to preserve them in low-ammo, low-metal situations like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ds30KqLaHs

Ok, so RR costs metal to use now. Can we have the old 75 health bolts back?

>>381303856
scouts got nerfed to hard to use in pub

Why don't they just remove unlocks in competitive entirely?

>>381303849
But all spies are shit, and any player good enough to play spy would be far more useful playing Scout or Sniper.

>>381303868
Well not necessarily. When you're using RR, a solo soldier is literally powerless against your sentry. Even with direct hit.

>>381303660
soldier was the only class to ever have fun since forever

>>381303847
I feel your pain, i had some early CS GO crates just sitting in my inventory when the prices starting raising on them. I ended up selling them to shut up my friends who would bitch about me being a hoarder every time we played only to see the prices keep rising.

>>381303853
Even 1v1 he's not as bad as people think. The revolver is seriously underused.

>>381303935
Scout has always been kinda bad in pubs. I hope with changes to Engineer and some other stuff they can be better.
Scout is really strong in organized play and has a lot of broken weapons, which is why he finally got some nerfs.

>>381304003
As it should be. Why should a solo soldier be able to wreck a sentry?

>>381303868
not gonna lie I just used it as extra metal.
Would turtle on my sentry. Whack it during an ambush, swap to ranger and heal while the dispenser Im sitting on refilled my ammo, then swap back.

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>>381303868
another weird thing is that nobody really complained about the rescue ranger either.

god forbid soldiers and demos have a hard time taking out a sentry nest.

>>381303937
Because many unlocks are used in competitive and you would know this if you weren't just a retarded pub shitter who thinks 6s is the antichrist.

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>>381300914
>the shitty weapons are still shitty
>the good and interesting weapons are now nerfed into being shitty unless your soldier
Literal brain dead developers over at valve. You waited nearly two years for some nerfs for everyone save soldier.

>>381301382
Ah yes Spy, my favorite long range class.

>>381303937
Because a lot of them are really fun and allow for different playstyles
Here's the current whitelist for anyone who wants to see it: http://whitelist.tf/esea_6v6_s25

>>381303951
You need a spy to play in competetive highlander and if you have a good one then the picks they can get can really turn the tide of a game. Sniper and medics decide games in highlander and a good spy makes both of them have to be on edge the entire game.

Most of the changes were pretty decent except some like the spy nerfs were severe, but the DDS one was just strange. They could have probably just reverted it to how it was before. I mean, the fire immunity and resistance isn't going to really matter outside of flares or maybe Huntsman snipers, but it's still a pointless change.

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>>381301050
What the fuck is going on? Does this mean Mantreads will be the new meta?

Most of the those "balance" changes are horrific.

>>381304115
Okay, but I feel like they shouldn't be used.

>>381304050
>Scout has always been kinda bad in pubs
Thats the point. Tf2 is a casual game first. You basically made a class unusable.

>>381304142
Why re they banning taunts? Because of that slight ability to peek around corners?

>>381304050
I will admit that the Revolver can be pretty good if you land the shots, but I think that revolvers could still use a bump in damage to be a bit more competitive with the huge damage potential of the Ambassador, and to a lesser extent, the Diamondback.

Bumping it just enough to two shot 125hp classes in max ramp up situations would be pretty nice. Not quite pre-nerf Enforcer levels of damage where you could two shot 125s and three shot 150s at like medium range almost though.

>>381304163
...This interests me.

You got any Youtube videos where spies managed to carry their team in Highlander?

>>381304262
That, and I think some of them fuck with hitboxes really badly. Like the heads aren't where they're supposed to be and stuff.

>it's a "fuck the pyro" balance patch
honestly, just fucking remove him from the game already.

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>>381304128
They really need rework demo and solider but they won't because alot of people main them because of how broken they are, remember how they changed sticky's to not be spammable and it got fixed a day after?

>>381304348
They haven't shown what changes they have for Pyro though?

>>381304356
Soldier and demo are balanced. Git gud and stop whining.

>>381304142
>all those scout secondary bans

>>381304276
I would reduce the spead a small amount, like they did with the ambassador. The damage is fine, it's just a bit unreliable at times.

>>381304225
Well, that's opinion honestly. A good scout can still wreck people in pubs. It's a class with a high skill floor.

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>claim you're going to re-balance Pyro
>do this by making Sniper, the most bullshit class in the game, immune to him
Well fuck you, too, Valve.

>>381304279
Nah i never really followed the scene like that. I honestly doubt there is a video like that out there, a spy can have a good game and get a bunch of medic and sniper picks in a game but there's still 7 other classes to worry about in the game. He made a huge impact in the game but i wouldn't really say he carried his team to the win.

>>381304398
I'm not them, but thinking about giving the Darwins Danger Shield complete immunity to afterburn on top of a 50% fire damage reduction is just a huge fuck you to Pyros at this point.

>>381304398
They reworked the Danger Shield from an anti-bullets passive to an anti-pyro passive.

Now 2fort snipers can ignore the Scorch Shot.

>>381304405
It doesn't matter if he gits gud. They'll just nerf whatever strategy he uses to beat soldiers after they complain to Valve.

>>381304430
If they allowed those, the class would dominate even more than it does now, probably.

>You're Eternal Reward
>This weapon wasn't used as much as we liked
>So we nerfed it
wat

>>381300914
>no news on detonator jump height increase / self damage decrease

>no news on reverting the bison

Im upset

>>381304482
>>381304483
So one item's change is a fuck you to Pyros?

But seriously, DDS needed a change in so long.

>>381304496
You need some perspective 2bh

>>381304515
They didn't. I'm excited to used it now.

>>381304515
What is this trying to get people to use items bullshit? If people like to play a certain way, then let them play.

So whats the consensus.
Spy nerfs were justified and about fucking time dead ringer fags got BTFO
Scout nerfs are too harsh and hes only viable in comp
Solly buff was stupid and mantreads should remain a joke item

>>381301050
Mantreads are the new Tide Turner for Soldiers

>>381304482
But at the same time, they remove the main reason people use DDS in the first place. When playing sniper, are pyros reqally such a big problem that you'd consider a secondary weapon meant to counter them and only them?

>>381304496
>They'll just nerf whatever strategy he uses to beat soldiers after they complain to Valve.
Oh no then you'll have to actually have good aim and movement and not rely on crutches to do the work for you, how will tf2 go on???

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>>381304439
>the pyro is fucked, how do we fix him
>I know, let's nerf his long range harass!

>>381304637
>t. blackbox conc soldier.

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>>381304483
>>Now 2fort snipers can ignore the Scorch Sho
>mfw I can't piss Snipers off anymore by fucking up their shots from across the map
That was literally the only reason I used the damn thing.

Fuck snipers.

Fuck Valve.

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>>381300914
Why do they keep nerfing spy every balance patch? He's the worst class and it isn't helped by Pyro being such a popular pick and spychecking being the thing everyone and their mother does 24/7. Yet they keep fucking nerfing all his tools. It's retarded.

>>381304436
>casual
>extremely high skill floor
>little reward
You cant be serious

>>381304583
Valve are completely retarded.

>>381304624
Do you know what the original Flare Gun's unlock description was on its update page?

>The first Pyro unlockable is The Flare Gun, which replaces the shotgun. It allows the Pyro to ignite an enemy at long range, but does require careful aim on their part. It’s particularly useful for causing havoc on Snipers and Engineers who want to keep their distance.

It's basically creating counters to counters to counters at this point, and long range pyro flares really fucked up a Sniper's aim due to the aim jump when you get hurt.

>>381302772
you mean deadly again

>>381304356
>remember how they changed sticky's to not be spammable and it got fixed a day after?
A flat 50% damage reduction doesn't make it more spammable, it just means it requires more spam. Everyone had a right to be outraged about that, not just demomen. No player in their right mind would accept a damage nerf of that degree on any class, just because it was directed at the Demoman doesn't mean it's special and different.
The radius reduction we got afterward makes a lot more sense overall. If he's spamming, he's probably not aiming very much aside from pointing in the general direction of you. If he's still landing consistent shots, maybe try dodging so the smaller radius doesn't snare you.

>>381304726
This may shock you, but that dead ringer you've been using was plain unfun for everyone but you, 100% of the time.

>>381304072
I guess maybe if there's two or three engies using it to heal a single sentry, because I have no idea how four shots will be enough to keep an unassisted sentry alive from a soldier or demo peeking and picking at it.

>>381304715
lmao please I know how to rocket jump, like I'd want to guard a doorway when I can fly around the map with gunboats.

>>381304663
>>381304719
Pyro is getting the most changes in this update, which is why nothing was shown yet.
Those changes to DDS may make the weapons too situational anyways. Besides, nothing here is final.

>>381304747
>little reward
That's where you're wrong. Look at good players playing scout. Even in pubs they can destroy. It's just hard because you have to get close and have 125 hp. Movement is key.

>>381304835
The nerf they did to the Dead Ringer last patch already made it so a Pyro, Soldier, and other classes could bring the DR duration down to zero in an instant. What kind of fucking baby still whines about Spy when he's already so gimped? Did the Overwatch players come over or something?

>>381304663
>>381304719
don't forget the man-treads and airblast

>>381303430
this isn't all the balance changes you shitter

>>381304796
But the point stands: would you, as a sniper, go out of your way to equip the new DDS full time? Over jarate and other options?

>>381301004
Please explain.

>>381303847
>still have my strange mantreads
I'm hoping the price skyrockets

>>381304880
>The nerf they did to the Dead Ringer last patch already made it so a Pyro, Soldier, and other classes could bring the DR duration down to zero in an instant
This is false. DR is the strongest it's ever been and you're pretty delusional if you didn't think this nerf was coming. Spy outran every class in the game, had afterburn immunity, and recharging is simple as grabbing an ammo box.
t. someone who played dr spy nonstop last few months

>>381304848
yeah but thats the point. You get those shots with much greater safety. It isnt suppsed to replace hitting it with a wrench

>>381305080
>outran every class in the game, had afterburn immunity
They must have done this when I stopped playing. Last I played he still had afterburn and it was designed so the amount of duration you lose when taking damage was increased to a stupidly high amount.
The Ambassador nerf is fucking stupid though considering the practice you need to be consistently good with it, and Spy is still the worst class in the game

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>>381301050
holy shit

>>381304992
I never equipped it already out of hate for the thing, plus I already always used S_M_G__ as my main secondary.

From the time I played Sniper though, I can tell you without a doubt one of the most annoying things is getting nailed with any sort of flare. It effectively gimps your aim for the duration of the Afterburn unless you have jarate equipped which would still disable you for a bit to go in cover and throw it down.

To put it a bit more in perspective, a Croco Sniper is as hard to kill with fire now as a halfway overhealed SOLDIER.

>>381304861
>Look at good players playing scout
Were not talking about comp here mate. In pubs a good scout does far less than a good solly. And with this update say good bye to any reward for being good.

>>381301550
>am I fitting in yet guise xd ?

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>tfw traded down a green energy tyrant helm twice
>tfw after all this shit I just traded down again for a steaming napper's respite
Would have gone for smoking but no one was selling
I'd expect all these already inflated pyro unusual prices to only go up from here
it's an alright feel
luv u pyro

>>381305345
It's not a nerf. It's only a nerf at long range and a buff anywhere else.

>>381305382
I meant look at a good scout player playing in a pub. Watch a pro players stream or something and watch them play scout in a pub.
You'll see him doing very well. The class is just hard.
The core of scout hasn't been nerfed, it's just some gimmicky weapons.

>>381305040
Sandman doesn't totally incapacitate people anymore.
Guillotine doesn't crit incapacitated people.

You can no longer right click twice and instantly kill people with scouts melee/secondary.

>they gave sniper a counter to pyro

I'm expecting them to just remove pyro for the pyro update at this point.

>>381301050
we tribes now

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>tfw very slightly tempted to get back into tf2 again after having stopped playing in 2014 due to there no longer being any good updates
>the new matchmaking system prevents me from fully wanting to along with the fact that I sold all my cosmetics and the shitty playerbases judges you entirely on whether or not you have cosmetics

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>>381301050
my body is ready

>>381305683
Not really dude, at this point if you equip a Gibus on most classes and do above average, people will think you're just being "ironic" and are actually really good at the game

>>381301050
Not a single thing that faggot did that wasn't already doable by a soldier already. Is it just making it easier for ham handed shitters now?

>lets nerf all the fun weapons into the ground even though they aren't used often (Sandman + Cleaver)
>lets tell spy to fuck off

Guess i'll stay on Overwatch then. Sad!

>>381305594
>Pyro
>The community has complained that the Pyro class is frustrating to play as and against since his role in the team is unclear and his primary is inconsistent
>The goal: Make pyro a fun class to play as and against
>New Design:Pyro now moves at 133% speed and can perform a second jump while airborne. The flamethrower and it's variants have been removed, and the shotgun is now his primary.

>>381305937
But Sydney Sleeper and Ubersaw didn't get a nerf though.

>>381305937
>Guess i'll stay on Overwatch then. Sad!
Good!

>>381305882
I can't tell if you're blind or retarded. The distance on regular jumps is clearly bigger

>>381306040
Not even kidding, I would make the Pyro move as fast as the Medic and Spy and then bring his health down to 150.
That plus a lot of other things.

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>Spy is becoming the new shitty merc that every other merc has a way counter
>pyro is still the shitty merc that every other merc can counter
Waiting for them to implment scondarys that nullify the effects of bullets and pill's and sticky's but not rockets because we wouldn't want those soldier mains to feel less than top tier would we?

>>381306067
Well you've answered my question, it's making it easier for you ham handed shitters.

>>381305549
Thats a stupid argument and you missed the point. Literally any good player will do well in pub. Scout still has the least reward and now its less.

>>381306237
t. UGC BRONZE participant

>>381306195
I'm legitimately waiting for the un-airblastable rocket unlock with all the random ass shit that gets added to characters for countering others.

>>381306040
Valve really has to nail this Pyro update. Pyro has really lacked a strong identity pretty much since the release and maybe when the Degreaser originally hit the scene. If they hyped this update up this much and it turns out to be a few unlocks and a couple QoL changes I bet people will be fucking furious.

>>381306195
Literally every balance patch for the last few years has been "let's nerf Spy even though player mentality itself is a hard counter to him"

>>381306443
do you mean, 'except maybe'?

>>381301004
>that competitive match where the Scout launched a Sandman ball across mid in cp_process, followed by an immediate Flying Guillotine
>the Sandman ball stuns the enemy Medic completely due to the distance
>the Flying Guillotine misses
>because the Sandman stun is 7 seconds and the Flying Guillotine cooldown is 6 seconds, the Scout gets to throw another Flying Guillotine at the Medic for an insta-kill

>>381306359
I agree that the class gets less reward in pubs.
That's other classes faults tho. Engineer shuts down scouts too hard, for instance. That class really needs a rework too.

>>381306489
Literally the previous balance patch gave Spy a passive damage and debuff resistance when cloaked and buffed the dead ringer.

>>381306654
I keep forgetting about that since I stopped playing when the most recent Spy patch was having the DR lose duration from damage to the point where one second of pyro fire or a few soldier rockets killed you through the DR.

>>381306529
Yeah that's what I meant, Degreaser really became the staple and stock weapon for Pyro for what it helped the class achieve, but it wasn't built off a foundation of good design so it just crumbled back to being a broken pile of design choices.

>>381306489
>Gun Mettle gave the Spy damage resistance and reduced debuff duration while cloaked
>Gun Mettle made the Spy do more damage with his other weapons against a Sentry Gun that he is sapping
>Gun Mettle changed the Dead Ringer with almost unusable damage resistance
>Tough Break buffed the Dead Ringer's damage resistance, turning it into the frustrating mess we know today
>Meet Your Match buffed the Spy's movement speed, which in turn made the Dead Ringer even harder to chase down

There have been some great Spy buffs, recently.

>>381306771
idk i just miss my afterburn crits and minicrits
it was seriously the biggest nerf ever to make puffs extinguish enemies imo

>>381303385

can i have your backpack?

>>381304726

were you not around for his most recent speed increase?

So, I went in expecting the same old shit, but this is different.

I hate absolutely every change. All of them are terrible. Like if I went in with a mission to kill fun without improving balance or increasing the amount of rewards you get for being skilled, this is exactly what I would do.


please just let tf2 die

>>381306915
Afterburn might as well not exist in the current focus of TF2. Literally EVERY class has some way of dealing with Afterburn in a large amount of situations, if not outright just extinguishing it by themselves.

I really hope the rework makes fire and afterburn damage actually scary and not just a minor inconvenience unless you get crit punched by a flare or something.

>>381301983
for you every update is a great update

>>381307080

ur dum

>>381307080
>I hate absolutely every change
Literally a shitter, not even kidding.

>>381307127
the fact that they're throwing around more anti-afterburn shit than ever on the other classes makes it look like that's a safe bet.

I heard dead ringer fags got BTFO and cant grab ammo to refill cloak. About fucking time they did something to these fags.

>>381300914
Please be good.

Rip Dead Ringer

So what is dead ringer even good for now? You can cloak once every 30 seconds in a specific situation and that's it?

>let's nerf the dr so much that nobody will ever use it ever.

it's negatives outweigh it's positives it's sun on a stick tier trash now.

>>381307552
>>381307516

>Things to keep in mind:

>This is not the complete list of changes. Some items (and classes) are still being worked on, and are not ready for review.
>We're going a little deeper on some classes this time (e.g. Scout) and not as deep on others (e.g. Demoman)
>This is a work-in-progress; items may change prior to release.

Reading is hard, I know.

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>>381307674
I know that dipshit but the fact they even thought that nerfing it that much is a good idea speaks volumes.

>>381307767
Weapon is annoying as fuck and only shitter are complaining that much.

LEAVE DEAD RINGER ALONE, MR PALADIN SAID IT'S BALANCED

>>381302136
yeah did i read that right? Danger shield now useless basically?

>>381307856
>>381307867
Considering how weak Spy is overall, the DR isn't that bad compared to other shit in the game, including the endless reign of Soldier the game has had for years.

>>381307856
Just remove the speed buff and it'd be fine to deal with dr spys are only a problem for new players anyway.

who cares? no one plays anymore. i installed it for shits and giggles a few weeks ago and most servers were empty as fuck, and the only populated ones were some modded bullshit

>>381307516
It's every 16s and if you decloak immediately 8s.
>Why would you ever decloak immediately?
Because moving faster than a scout is usually enough to get away or you can use the boost to get a good pick

>>381307978
>Darwin's Danger Shield pretty much nullified other snipers
>Now nullifies Pyros

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why do so many people on here complain like some pub scrub about broken gimmicks getting fixed?

its like crying about not getting fucked over anymore.

>>381307978
>Danger shield now useless basically?
No? Scorch shot is one of the strongest anti sniper weapons and this is a counter to it.

not sure why they'd touch meme weapons that only only autistic pubshitters imitating their favorite youtubers would use

razorback shows they do kinda listen to actual players and not pub trash SOMETIMES

>>381307995
Valve needs to balance for all levels all play, not just the lowest level pubs, where Soldier dominates because the skill floor is so low.
At higher levels, other classes like Scout and Sniper are more problematic, for instance.

>381308026
Not even a (You), tripfag.

>>381308061
>give a class with shitty melee slightly better melee against the melee class
>the melee class is now nullified

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>>381308103
Because /v/ relied on these gimmicks to get kills because they're bad at TF2.

>>381308103
To the point of making the weapon basically a husk? I mean I hate the fucking Sandman too but what the hell is the point of a weapon originally meant to stun, that doesn't really do anything besides inconvenience someone now with a slow?

>>381308103
Exactly this. What the fuck?

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>>381308061
>bad snipers can't just wait to charge to deal with to danger shield users

the whole point was to prevent quickscope snipers are they really that dense?

>>381308228
>Loses sniper battles
>Thinks hes good at sniper
Go back to overwatch

>>381308156
Spy is a non-issue in most situations though, given that in normal play the mentality is to spycheck everywhere and everything and disguising almost never works.

>>381308228
The Danger shield was a M-A-D situation, the sniper not using was pretty much at a blatant disadvantage if they weren't braindead while using it. Try slow peeking while charging a shot against any half decent sniper and you'll see why "just charging" doesn't work.

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>>381308209

dead ringer won't be a husk it will be a tool to make a decision to use, not a crutch to lean on.

besides the greatest spy plays in TF2 are made without the dead ringer anyways

https://youtu.be/JADbX2ydDGM?t=55

>>381304719
>go pyro
>find sniper on your team
>use flames infront of him to blind him
>get enemy sniper to kill him while he zooms out to rage at you

It's the only way left for pyro to beat sniper.

>>381308463
I remember that play. That shit was so good.

>>381300914
Valve still supports games?

>>381308463
Dead Ringer is whatever, I was talking about the Sandman in my post. They basically made it a weird mesh of mechanics where it makes you slow for getting hit from far away and maybe some more damage but you still lose 15hp for it? Why not just use the Wrap Assassin now? Some of these changes really don't seem thought out to the fullest, and while the Sandman was a pretty bullshit thing to fight against, it's basically the opposite now where it seems like it's going to be a minor inconvenience if you're pretty much any class with a weapon.

>>381308675
that seems to be all they do anymore.

>>381308730
They're making VR games, anon. Believe!

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>Run all stock all the time
>Love all these changes

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>>381300914
>What weapons unmentioned do you think will be touched?
I know what WON'T be touched:

>>381301050
YESSS
FINALLY SOLDIER'S MOST USELESS WEAPON GETS ITS TIME IN THE SUN

>>381308696

they're are trying their best to not have to make a ban list for their own form of competitive but also remove any extremely exploitable mechanics. and it just so happens thats all some weapons were.

sandman being one of those weapons is now a strange sidegrade that they are hoping someone will find a job for while maintaining stock weapons generally suprerior practicality.

>>381300914
>What will happen to the Pyro?
Probably nothing good.
The bare minimum that I expect is for them to unfuck the flamethrower's inconsistent range and at least try to turn the pyro's primary attack into something useful (which is what they should've done instead of nerfing the degreaser).
The axetinguisher should be fixed (i.e. reverted back to how it originally was), the phlog should be reworked into an entirely new weapon, and pyros shouldn't even have the reserve shooter (hopefully the update will give him another shotgun).

>YER was only good with the set bonus
>they don't implement the set bonus without the hat
Please give set bonus

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>>381302324
>Weren't they the default secondary for trolldiers before the parachute arrived?
Not because they were good. It's called "trolldier" for a reason-- you're literally gimping yourself.

Mantreads is pretty much the single worst unlock in Soldier's inventory, tied with Righteous Bison. A buff to it was excellent and this new buff is really exciting: it looks like it's going to be Soldier's most skilled secondary, the MANtreads for real MEN.

I'm excited to see what shit people will pull with this, it will be like when Pyro got the Detonator, or when Demo got the Sticky Jumper.

>>381301880
>>How dare people tell me to make my posts more readable
What on earth are you talking about, you turbo autist

>>381302457
Nigger, I have screenshots from years before you've started browsing this godforesaken site with the exact same post format.

Why on earth are you so fucking retarded?

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>>381301209
Sniper doesn't really need a nerf.
If you look at the highest level of competitive play, Soldier, Scout, Demo, and Medic get ran full-time, and Sniper gets ran part-time. You have to be really, really insanely good at aiming to make Sniper worth running full-time.

Sure Sniper is a low counterplay class, which is probably the single biggest flaw in his design, but he's not overpowered by any means. Especially now they're going to be nerfing the Razorback, which will mean he won't even be the best in Highlander anymore.
>>381301382
Gotta agree with this. Ambassador didn't need a nerf in this way, especially not with increased RNG. The more I think about it the more I dislike it. Amby was a sidegrade to Revolver; the only mode it was really good was Highlander, which I think Valve are giving too much attention in TF2 balance; since Highlander competitive Matchmaking isn't possible (logistical issues), we shouldn't be balancing 6v6 competitive Matchmaking around it.
>>381302186
Rescue Ranger was banned in comp play because Engies would use it to turtle their sentries from a safe distance on last at no risk, making the game take ages to end. BASE Jumper was allowing Soldiers to sit in the skybox spamming the Medic. and Atomizer allowed Scout to jump around Demos and Soldiers heads where they couldn't hit them.

Valve wants to mesh Casual and Competitive to have the same balance (like they do in DOTA and CS:GO), so these are steps towards that, and 6s players are pretty happy.

http://www.teamfortress.tv/41999/tf2-blog-balance-changes/?page=2

>>381309064
Thats not the Bison

>>381309857

holy shit jill posted in tftv

I honestly hoped the devs didn't look there because theres so many useless edgy teens always shit talking anything for the sake of it there.... kinda like somewhere else i can think of

>>381309857
sniper's effectiveness is entirely determined by skill. he isn't strong "half the time," he's strong 100% of the time when he's played by a skilled player.

>>381302476
It was a Highlander thing, where Sniper is the dominant class by a wide margin.
Let's say you're a great Sniper. And there's a great Spy trying to kill you. You're being overhealed by a Medic and your team is standing with you, so if he tries to backstab you, you won't die and he'll get blown up. If he tries to headshot you with Amby, you're overhealed to 185HP meaning he needs multiple headshots to kill you, so he gets blown up before he can do that.

Basically, an overhealed Razorback Sniper is basically unkillable for a Spy of equal skill level, which is obviously not how things should be when Spy is meant to softcounter Sniper.

It shouldn't affect pubs too much, but it'll make Sniper balanced for HL.

Then again, it worries me that Valve are still making balance changes with Highlander in mind. It's not workable as a competitive format in soloqueue matchmaking, since it takes too long to get a server of 18 players of equal skill. So there's not much point in Valve balancing around Highlander.
>>381303041
Diamondback is, if anything, Spy's second worst Revolver, only good as a win-more weapon when the people you're playing against are worse than you. When you're on an equal skill level as other players, you're normally getting 1 backstab before dying since that's how Spy works. Which means you won't have use for that 1 single crit which you could have had immediately with Ambassador.

>>381310210
But at the same time, the other team's medic is wasting his time hanging around sniper.

>>381309857
>Sniper
>Strong half the time
But that's fucking wrong though. He's easily the best class in the game with a highly skilled player, the only class that can compete is another Sniper.

>>381303403
Because currently it's a perfect sidegrade to the stock Revolver, and Spy is the second weakest class in the game outside of pubs.

Nerfing Ambassador is going to make the second least powerful class's most skilled weapon option just slightly worse.

It's like degreaser flare combos all over again.

And I am not a Spy main by the way, I'm a Medic main, but I can understnd why hey're upset.

>>381303935
Not if you're good enough to use him efficiently, he's one of the single best classes in the game.
>>381304064
So a game can end. Why should a solo soldier be powerless against a Sentry? He's got a chance against any other class.

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>>381300914
>they want to kill off DR/Amby spies
hey no problem with that

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>Lv3 sentries cost 530 metal and take about 30 seconds to set up
>the already get destroyed incredibly easily
>let's nerf their survivability options little by little with each new update

>>381310190
> he's strong 100% of the time when he's played by a skilled player.
Yeah, but the thing is very, very few players exist who are skilled enough to make him strong 100% of the time.

Look at i58 and Rewind LAN; Sniper didn't see very much full-time play to begin with, and the teams who ran Sniper the most (eg: Jasmine Tea) were also the teams that lost.

This is why I consider Sniper one of the most balanced classes in TF2, because unless you are insanely good, he's not worth running fulltime.
>>381310359
> He's easily the best class in the game with a highly skilled player
But this is what you're failing to understand.
Hardly any such players exist.
Go, watch i58 finals and Rewind LAN finals, see how often Sniper gets used, and you'll understand what I mean.

Unless you can land headshots very, very consistently, Sniper is not worth running because Demos will outDPS him, and Scouts and Soldiers will just run/rocket jump into his danger zone, and beat the shit out of him.
>>381310290
Not in HL. That's pretty much the sole reason the Razorback was changed imo; appeal to HL players.

>>381302457
i'm going to start doing this now because it's funny how such a trivial thing makes you angry.

it's hilarious.

it's really hilarious.

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>>381310987
It's an aimbot anon. You have to understand that Valve wants to reward players who actually have to aim their weapons over players who don't.

Sentry is still the single most powerful defensive asset in the game. It's got higher DPS than anything else, it's crit-immune, it never misses, and is arguably tankier than Heavy due to the rate at which you can heal it.

The problem with Engineer is that he's too strong on defense and too weak on offense. Being strong on defense means he prevents teams from capturing last points (thus the game ends in a stalemate with no winner), while being weak on offense means Engie mains don't get to play him 50%+ of the time.

That's why it's good that Valve is nerfing Engineer's ability to turtle hard. What you need to do, rather than complaining about them nerfing its defense, is asking for buffs to his OFFENSIVE abilities.

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>>381301050
>strange mantreads price tripled overnight on the market

Damnit I wish I'd bought some. I forgot how similar the steam community market is to the stock market.

I got a professional mantreads kit fabricator and fabricated it because I hope the mantread kits will go up in price as well.

As someone who uses the eternal reward whenever I play spy (not that much but still), I'm kind of unhappy with the "buff". Not being able to disguise was a downside I was more than willing to take, since I can usually get behind the enemy lines. But now that'll be harder with the cloak drain increased.

>>381311289
I have not seen a stalemate in years

>>381310104
You already had your time in the sun

>>381311603
Because you probably only play Payload pubs where it's literally impossible for stalemates to occur.
When money's on the line in symmetrical game modes, teams are hugely incentivized to turtle down and not push, because pushing is extremely risky when you have to move in on a level 3 Sentry that the Engineer can heal up with Rescue Ranger from the other side of the room, and then when you finally take it down, he just ducks into spawn and swaps class to Soldier, and all that effort (and your Uber) was wasted.

And when I say "stalemate", it doesn't always have to be a literal stalemate, it can also be just the teams sitting on their control points for 5 minutes waiting for each other to make the first move, because neither of them wants to take the risk of pushing into that defensive setup.

Which is FUCKING BORING to watch both teams do nothing for 5 minutes.

That's why Engineer being so defense-oriented is bad for the game.

>>381301382
>what the hell spies have to be close range like they are designed to be????????????

>Powerhouse was originally going to be included in TF2's release but got dropped by it's designer for 8 years

No wonder it feels so tiny and cramped abd has the hydro aesthetic

>>381311851
>it's okay that it's the worst weapon in it's slot because it used to be slighly less underpowered in the past

And don't you fucking bring up MvM
balancing weapons around MvM is retarded

>>381311940
A control point map isn't bad just because it's small. Would you rather have a long-ass empty map where nothing happens, like coldfront?

>>381311940
It's pretty fun tho.
I hope Asteroid and Cactus Canyon don't get the same treatment.

>>381312124
Not him but I like Coldfront. One of the best examples of TF2's Cold War theme, looks really good. Second is a bit boring though

>>381312124
Hey fuck you I like Coldfront

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I think that
>medic needs a nerf, since he's a class VITAL to win (but not very fun) who becomes gamebreaking when you have 2+
>Engineer and Heavy need to be more powerful on offense and less powerful on defense, to make them full-time viable and stop stalemates
>Pyro needs to become a better combat class (more range and mobility) so it can have an actual relevant gameplay role
>Spy needs to become a better support class (more invis time and gimmicks) so it can stop being "Worse Sniper who has to be in melee range to work"

>Valve needs to finish their anti-hacking AI
http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-wants-to-take-a-machine-learning-approach-to-counter-strike-anti-cheat/
>Competitive Matchmaking needs to have an actual prize and tournament, so people have a reason to play it over community competitive
if Valve don't do these things, their Competitive Matchmaking mode will never take off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAOEpb_k2Vk

>>381313426
>1
>fucking
>hour

>>381313426
>an hour of some autist reading patch notes

>>381313553
to be fair he's the single most qualified autist in the community, but yeah 1hr is excessive

>>381301382
Honestly the worst part about it is that you can't snipe those faggot engies camping in cramped spaces where your team's snipers can't normally get to easily. Now they can sit there and heal off their dispenser for eternity until your theoretical medic and demo are revved up or you're willing to sit there for 15 minutes sapping a sentry (which the enemy will typically hear and fuck your ass harder than a Terry Trap).
Aside from that, the stock revolver is functional and if you're not using your gun then the best thing is a let'ranger.

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>held out on selling my strange hot rod mantreads
>mfw that buff

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>>381301382
Oh no! My class that was meant to have a short-range stealth playstyle now can't use his gun to headshot a player across the map! If only there was SOME class that could help me fill this void!

Why is cashworks not an official map yet

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>atomizer gutted
comp autists ruin everything I swear

>>381301050
When i read about the mantreads I instantly knew it would be overpowered. It will probably be changed.

>>381316317
>It will probably be changed.
In 3 years maybe.

>>381300914
>ambassador nerf

Im out. Last fun I was having was countersniping...

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>>381316048
>removed self-inflicted damage when triple-jumping
>removed attack speed penalty
>melee attacks done while airborne mini-crit
>reduced damage penalty vs players
>gutted

>>381316048
It's not gutted, and you're the autist. If anything Atomizer is still far better than stock. And these aren't the final changes. If you don't like it, email Valve talking about it so they can throw your email in the trash because you're a 300 hour pubbie who doesn't know shit.

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>>381316541
>>381316548
t. shitters

l2p pls and stfu

I sent my feedback :)

>>381316640
Damn that's a lot of time spent idling

blog incoming

1. The (current) ambassador, much like the sniper rifle, is a weapon with a high skill ceiling that rewards very precise aim with criticals. While long-range shots with the ambassador are generally deadly, the skill required to headshot at long distances without a scope takes hundreds or thousands of hours to achieve. However, I do not necessarily take issue with Spy's effective range being lowered as the TF team may feel that effectiveness doesn't suit the class. What I am concerned about is the method used to accomplish that.
Bullet spread introduces RNG and a feeling of randomness rather than skill.
TF2 has never been shy about its random aspects, but the change is confusing given that 2 other weapons in this blog post (the sandman and guillotine) have this as their stated goal: "Remove the feeling of randomness, and reward accuracy". I believe myself and many others would prefer a different approach such as changing headshot crits into mini-crits after a certain distance.

1/2

>>381316741
top kek wanna have a go at MGE but don't cry when you're getting stomped until RQ

>>381316773
2. For the most part I love the changes to the YER. I don't think taking the direction of higher cloak depletion rate is wrong, but I have a hard time seeing the huge +50% rate as being viable in many situations. The cloak duration (without the L'Entranger) with the invis watch will come down to a very limiting 5 seconds, hardly even time to make it across the bridge and into the enemy base in 2fort much less reach an ammo pack for a refill. The Cloak & Dagger comes down to 3.3 seconds, and the dead ringer 4.5 seconds. While the C&D and DR are not hugely effected by a decreased duration given how they function, even with the assistance of the L'Etranger, the invis watch gets a grand total of 7 seconds of cloak duration, making a trek through many maps a near impossibility.
This creates an issue of synergy with the YER and the watches which bring back memories of set bonuses. With the invis watch the L'Etranger appears to be an almost necessity to even reach a safety zone. As well, with how spread out ammo packs can potentially be the invis watch effectively becomes a worse C&D, requiring you to go periods of time without cloak in maps that may be filled with enemies. Combine this with the questionable choices made in allowing spawning players to see disguised spies standing in odd places through walls, and the invis watch appears less and less viable.
The dead ringer, due to the removal of ammo packs regenerating cloak, will be effected severely by the YER's cloak depleting disguise mechanic. Already the player must deal with a very loud sound alerting enemies that are mostly already aware of the DR's abilities, a player must now wait out 2 entire recharges if they want to disguise and have an escape ready after de-cloaking behind enemy lines. A disguise alone is very rarely enough to avoid detection especially when the spawn "wallhacks" are again taken into account.

2/3 oops

>>381316640
>>381316741
ive seen 2k mmr dota players with 1000s of games played who suck ass and play like they're brain damaged

>>381316842
This leaves only the C&D as an option that isn't a very risky combo with the YER. While the cloak only lasts for a few steps, the ability to regenerate while invisible offsets the nerf to duration and the watch already requires a decloak to replenish on ammo packs, making it a good fit for the new disguise mechanic. What this appears to point to is that the C&D (and possibly the L'Etranger) are absolutely critical to effective Your Eternal Reward usage. As stated before, this strikes me as very similar to the set bonuses of years ago.

3/3

I'm surprised they haven't atacked the Diamondback yet. That thing is just stupid.

>>381301550
>How to spot a newfag

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>>381316773
>>381316842
>>381316898
pretty much agree with all of this, send this to the tf team if you haven't already

>vitasaw lets you get up to 60% uber back on respawn
>15% uber stored for death upon hit
>4 hits gives 60% uber stored on death
This seems crazy.

>>381317024
Already did, was interested to see the thoughts from people here as well.

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>>381317037
Only problem is that vitasaw, along with any other medic melee weapon, is usless because of ubersaw. It needs to be nerfed.

>>381317037
Eh it's now basically an ubersaw that lets you die which means charging at enemies after your heal targets are dead isn't pointless now

>>381317037
Keep in mind that it's 60% RETAINED, not granted, meaning that you'd have to build 60%+ AND get 4 hits with your saw in before dying. I don't honestly see that as very viable outside complete brain dead pubs.

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don't open

>that ambassador nerf
>can't snipe on pubs
time to uninstall

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don't open

>>381317137
I don't know if it needs to be nerfed per se; it's far superior to any other melee, but it's not game-breaking or anything.

>>381317037
>>381317226
That just means stock and kritz could be more useful in pubs now, rather than quick fix being unquestioned king.

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>>381317536
>quick fix being unquestioned king.

>>381317584
In pubs? It absolutely is. Your team is unlikely to make good use of uber or kritz, so it's by far the best option to just keep them healthy.

>>381317653
I can't tell you how many countless pubs I had where we're on Upward last attacking and a single sentry halts our entire progress because we have 2 idiot medics insisting on using the quick-fix to push one heavy into his headshot demise. These are the situations where I grab uber and save the game. The only thing the Quick-fix is king of is overuse.

>>381303389
skill required for backstabs<skill required for lolsoebin trickstabs<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<skill required for reliably pulling off headshots with amby.

I main demo and even I know that being good with hitscan on spy is fucking tough. Get real, fag.

>>381317483
editing ruins it sadly.

>>381316829
Sure go ahead faggot
id/stary

>>381316930
refer to >>381310210
Diamondback is a weapon you pick when you're already winning, not a weapon you pick when you want to win

>>381317037
you could get 60% uber stored on death or just get 100% uber from four hits

>>381301267
Everything

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>Vita-Saw has organ collection mechanic where you supposedly pop them out and 'hold them'
if they've modelled this I'm using this over the Ubersaw fuck the disadvantage

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IT'S NOT FUCKING FAIR

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>RNG bullet spread bullshit on the Amby
>Gutting the Dead Ringer of any way to proactively regenerate cloak
>Two cloak penalties on one knife

I know this is supposed to be the Pyro update but that doesn't mean it also has to be the Fuck Spy update.

>>381316773
The only use of Amby at long distance was to punish overly stationnary targets. And anyway, you would need to wait for the inaccuracy to come down and land a 2nd shot.

It was usefull against snipers camped in a hard to reach location and against turtle engineers that you couldn't remove in any other way and had to stay at safe distance from the sentry.

Picking off 1 pixel wide heads took skill and wasn't random at all and if you received that 2nd bullet you totally deserved it.

But guess now it's just better to take your spy, walk back to spawn and change to sniper...

>>381319346
Message them then.
>>381320268
They're probably going to fuck over Pyro's spychecking abilities and this will be compensation.

>>381320306
Oh wow, the long range class is better for long range and the stealth class is best for mid to close range. Horrifying.

>>381301004
they nerfed Scout into oblivion generally. winger+atomizer is the only thing that has kept Scout as the agility/mobility master-class. now Soldier reclaims that position.

I haven't played it in years and it's shitton of changes.
Is there a tl;dr?

>>381321697
if you haven't played in years it's a completely different game now. There's really no choice but to just jump in.

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>>381321516
Okay shut up for a second and listen.

Scout is one of the strongest classes in the game. This is doubly true since the Medic tether speed buff. He has enormous burst damage, enormous ground mobility plus above average air mobility, and decent range.

Good Scouts beat good Soldiers in 1v1 combat a good 60% of the time in competitive. And this is stock we're talking about.

Atomizer was an overpowered weapon which allowed Scouts to jump around Soldiers' and Demomen's heads where they couldn't be hit, while attacking said Soldiers and Demos with the Scattergun. It was completely broken and thus constantly banned.

Scout has not been "nerfed into oblivion" at all. STOCK Scout is still one of the single strongest classes in the game.

>>381305683
I sold it all except my Max's Head that I will never let go off, all for some games.

Worth every bit of it.

>>381321996
>Good Scouts beat good Soldiers in 1v1 combat a good 60% of the time in competitive.
LITERALLY
>No one should ever be able to beat Soldier. Soldier being a hard-counter to every other class is the core of the games balance.

this is where every discussion about Soldier being an OP class for bad players inevitably goes. and Valve coddling this type of shitter is the #1 problem with the game.

>>381322974
>>No one should ever be able to beat Soldier
I didn't say that. TF2 classes should all go 50/50 with Soldier. Scout just about does, therefore he's balanced.

Stock Scout, Stock Soldier, Stock Demo, and Stock Sniper are all balanced classes who sit on the same tier.

Medic is a tier above everyone else, Heavy and Engie are OP on defense and UP on offense, and Spy/Pyro are flat out shit tier.

>>381322974
oh and btw I support various nerfs to Soldier unlocks, I don't main Soldier and I don't play favourites when it comes to balance.
I'm just telling you the same thing any top-level competitive player will tell you: Scout is one of the strongest classes in TF2.

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>Another update just to make TF2 run worse

>>381323283
What the fuck are you talking about, you hyperbolic nigger? Did you even fucking READ the update before posting??

>>381323501
More content = more usless shit TF2 has to load and keep

>>381323556
It's not more content, it's changing the existing content to make it better you dummy

>>381323556
>He has trouble running Team Fortress 2 on his toaster.

>>381323616
And along with the changes the New items and map will be added with the update. Making it another update that will make TF2 run worse you stupid nigger

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>>381323556
It's fucking balance changes. Nothing got added. There will be absolutely no change to TF2's ability to run.
If you're baiting kill yourself.
If you're not baiting kill yourself.

Learn to read, you dirty, smelly illiterate nigger.

>>381323710
>>381323708

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>>381323768
>>381323708
This will be your final (you).
A map in place of an existing map will have 0 effect on performance.

A weapon in place of an existing weapon will have 0 effect on performance.

This is so nobody gets confused by your bait. Retard.