Would it be better without crush counters?

SFV would be off not existing

>>381284551
FPBP. E-sports has killed the FGC

>>381284551
FPBP

Basically this.

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>>381284501
>still the biggest game
>still brings in the most viewers at majors
>tekken literally had less viewers at its first major than a freaking NetherRealm game

I won't pretend SFV is perfect. But until a worthy challenger comes up and pushes SF's shit in, it will always be king.

no

crush counters are the only reason SFV hasn't gone the way of Dead or Alive yet

>>381284551
t. goober

I always found the concept of counter hits in general unnecessary. Most of the old SFs didn't even have them.

>>381285196

SF3/SFA had them, and I'm pretty certain at least one of the later revisions of SF2 added them in.

>>381285196
there is a reason for that. Early SF's didn't have a lot of things because they had not become a mechanic yet at all.

Crush counters are fine, but I think the combination of the priority system, Crush counters, and how many Crush counter normals are safe on block makes for a bad combination.

If heavies didn't auto win in trades, and if they were a little more risky to throw out, I think it would benefit the game overall right now.

Otherwise I think SF5 is a good game. Haters gonna hate, but you can't just option select your way out of situations like you could in 4. You make your choice, and you commit to it in this game and I'm all for that.

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>>381284501
no one cares any more -- the casualware turd is dead

>Would it be better without its singular interesting mechanic?

>>381284835
Because Capcom has the FGC by the balls retard. Everyone would rather play something else but theres no money in Guilty Gear or Tekken compared to SF, and they need to spend time learning and mastering those games as well.

>>381284551
this

Why the fuck hasn't any other fighting game series done a Melee

>>381285487
>Turd Strike
>deep
LMAO

>>381286118
meant to reply to >>381285707

>>381285770
Why is money your motivation for playing video games?

>>381286052
what do you mean

>>381285770
tekken is a shit game that suffers from every single one of SFV problems and more

>>381284501
no, crush couners are fun and sound really impactful. its a great mechanic. jus needs to be balanced a bit with other balancing.

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>>381286280

Because he doesnt play and just watches.

FGC probably has the biggest viewer-to-player ratio. Just a bunch of bitchass hypemen who live vicariously through a few asians and asian americans who put in the work

>>381286118
You can hate it all you want its still a deep game

>>381286280
It's not my motivation because I can't compete on that level and locals are just Smash but it is the motivation for professional players.

The problem stems from E-sports, as I said. If you want to focus on winning, then you need sponsors, and sponsors only care about viewership. Which game gets pushed the hardest and get most views? SFV of course, so players dont have much incentive to play other, better games because sponsors would drop them and the prize money isnt as big, on top of needing to learn new mechanics.

>>381285683
There's very little priority in street fighter v.

Some attacks have invulnerability but for the most part they're all v-reversals. SFV follows SFIII: Third Strike logic where the faster attack wins, so priority would only get in the way of that. It's not like USFIV where you can do a meaty, and it'll go right through an ultra combo because of invincibility frames (thank god).

Anyway SFV is atypical for the series given the speed and the strength of the formula. It's the slowest one yet, and it doesn't feel like it. Most other Street Fighter games are really fast, from Super Turbo all the way up to Ultra, finishing a match in seconds only takes a handful of good reads. The cluck runs a loooooong time in Street Fighter V for whatever reason, be it the gameplay formula or the overall speed of the game.

>>381284501
Most crush counter moves are fine, but some like Rashid st.hp, karin st.hk, and urien fierce definetely needs to be toned down, no risk at all doing theses moves randomly in neutral.

>>381286779
The worst one has got to be Bison standing.hk. There is no riskk in doing that attack and it's fast as all shit. You can get away with murder with that one attack.

>>381284501
Crush counters should only be given to punishing big whiffed moves like DPs, command grabs, and supers. Everything else should give regular counter hits that you have to actually hit confirm to get the counter hit combo. That counter hit combo wouldn't be a half life combo, but still be more damaging than a bread and butter.

There. Fixed

>>381286939

Then how come Bison dont win tournies.

>>381284501
no, they're a good mechanic the problem is that they are not used well at all.

they are almost entirely used as a dp punish, meaning there is going to be a single one you use in all cases. most of the time you dont even end up using any of the other ones. most of them - sweeps in paticular - are hardly worth going for because the risk reward favors random, ham ass reads

>>381286439
lol

>>381286552
Why, because it has parries?

>LMAO, PARRY DAT SHIT, OMUHGAWD, 4D CHESS

MOBA's are fucking deeper, probably also why they draw bigger crowds.

>>381287054
For the same reason Remy don't win tournies. No one plays hard enough with him until someone from japan shows up as a Remy main.

>>381287075
You clearly know very little about fighting games

>>381287210
Is it really a feat to be knowledgeable about a topic which everyone else can outclass you in?

>>381286758
There is a normal priority system in SF5. Heavy's win trades vs mediums and lights, mediums win trades against lights.

It is a specific mechanic that I think makes safe crush counters a little too strong.

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>>381287210
Sure bro, whatever you say.

>>381285683
The game cannot be good while Capcom is the developer of it. This company has sunk everything under for the sake of quick profit. They're not thinking about gameplay right now as much as how much money you can give them.

>>381286758
Also what are you talking about other SF games are fast and 5 is slow?

SF5 and 4 are almost identical in speed, and rounds end much faster due to higher damage.

4 was one of the overall slowest games due to low damage, but it is almost identical in movement and jump speed to 5. People have done comparison tests for this.

>>381287474
Yeah it's not as bad as Ultra or Marvel where entire supers can outclass normals and team attacks.

For the most part the frame data calculates the speed. If a 6f is met with a 4f the 6f will win on meaty. Same as Third Strike is a lot of ways. I don't know if heavies beat lower attacks in trades, I haven't seen a video or tested it myself but I know it's relatively similar to Third Strike.

>>381287518
You bought all that trash but you didn't get GG/Tekken?

>>381287567
Amazing reasoning there...

I won't argue the package is trash, but I like the game overall.

It could use some improvements, but 4 had a lot of problems too all through its life cycle.

People just get mad at new games for not being the old one.

>>381287929
4 is feature and gameplay complete. Thats the difference between it and 5. 5 is running on an even more casualized fighting system that I thought couldn't get worse than 4.

>>381287807
I'm not sure what is so bad about supers outclassing normals or team attacks.

Invulnerability isn't priority. They have two separate meanings in fighting games.

>>381287905
>you bought all that
>but you didn't buy GG

It should be plainly obvious it's because I DON'T buy trash.

>>381287807
And yes, in 5 higher strength grounded normals will always win over lower strength grounded normals on trade.

Any normal will win in a meaty because you are active on their startup, but should they trade, the higher strength one always wins and takes priority.

>>381288071
Would you do this if I asked you what invulnerability meant?

Or are you saying you don't operate under the logic that priority stems from attacks beating others? I don't follow you.

>>381288097
>I DON'T buy trash
>Blade Symphony and Xenoverse

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>>381287905
>says he buys trash
>then mentions tekken

>>381288097
>>381288337

And WWE2K16 holy fucking shit

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>went to a local right before CEO
>tournaments for Tekken, SFV, Injustice2, and Mahvel 3
>Tekken 7 brackets got held up by some dude playing SFV
other than that and injustice almost didnt fire it was a great time.

>>381288240
Yeah but that has nothing to do with the strength of the attack. You just said the normal will win on frame data alone, so that indicates a measurement, not a game mechanic. Priority wouldn't play a role there would it?

>>381288097
>NRScuck shit talking GG

Fucking lol

>>381288010
I consider some of it a major improvement to 4.

4 became so much about oki, and memorizing setups using option selects. People call that depth, but often its not. It is really just people not needing to make a choice for themselves and letting the computer pick the best outcome.

People call the game in 5 simple, but its the player making the choices, as option selects are far less numerous.

This improved in Ultra with delayed techs, but that was 7 years into the games life span.

Also DP FADC being an easy get out of jail free mechanic grew very tedious, and killed momentum heavily making the game very defensive.

Also fucking invulnerable command grabs were annoying as hell to me personally and I very much like how they basically don't exist in 5.

>>381284551
This basically. SF4 attracted a ton of fagwagons so Capcom decided "Hey! Let's milk the success by appealing ONLY to the fagwagons!"

And thus Capcom killed Street Fighter by screwing over their core audience.

>>381288337
>they're trash because they've never been at EVO

Yes, because we all know the seal of quality is from a weeb shit-fest that started out as a Capcom circle-jerk get-together.

>>381288536
Your post would matter if Capcom cared about this sophistcation you keep mentioning in 5 that doesn't exist cause again, Capcom cares only about selling bikini sets right now. The thing with 4 is that the game was a complete game right at arcade edition 2012, right before that shitty porting of the characters from SFx Tekken. That absolutely ruined the game then and there.

>>381288558
I didn't say anything about EVO you fucking retard.
They're trash because they're trash.
Seriously? You're defending WWE2K16?

>>381287518
How is Blade Symphony? Bought on principle a million years ago but never actually played it.

Also I highly recommend T7 if you haven't tried it yet.

>>381284994
t./fgg/ namefag

>>381288698
I havent played it since 2013 but it was like Jedi Academy without all the force abilities.

>>381288331
I'm saying invulnerability is a property of a move in SF games.

When something has I frames active, it will simply win against anything. In that sense, it takes priority, but really its just never going to lose during those specific frames.

Priority in broad mechanic sense is that there is a specific hierarchy to moves.

In sf4, there was no priority system. An active move when one move beat another it was a matter of either being active before the other move becomes active, or the hitbox interactions made one move win.

In 5, there is a specific hierarchy of priority. Strength of the button determines the winner of a trade scenario. In all other scenarios, there is no priority, and moves interact the same way that they would in 4.

>>381288513
>trying to fit cuck into the name of literally anything

lemme guess, you bought SFV on launch

>>381288836
Yeah okay that makes sense but how does that logic integrate into the gameplay on the basic level? I'm trying to mess around with it now, that's why I'm asking.

>>381284501
It needs footsies and meterless reversals. Everyone's till just dashing and doing fishing for throws/knockdowns. Might as well just play anime, since sfv plays like a dumbed down anime fighter.

>>381288536
SFV is just as much about Oki, don't be fooled. Because DPs require EX to be invincible, no invincible backdashing, no focus attacks, no FADC, there are A LOT less defensive options to get out of a blender.

The game tends to boil down into knockdown -> throw/CC heavy. You don't want to get CC heavied for half your health which is why you see people eat 4 throws in a row in SFV.

>>381288836
desu I really hate the priority system in 5. It really makes me hate poking. In 4, moves that would win just lose entirely in 5. I also hate the CC heavy system, since it makes heavies have better benefits instead of being a high risk move.

>>381289092
>dumbed down anime fighter
This. At least GG has options to deal with crazy oki. In this you have a shitty V reversal which can get beat by grabs, and DPs which need meter and get CC'd on block.

>>381288689
I dont care if capcom cares. As a long time player I see that there is depth to the game. It isn't the deepest, but people act like there is nothing there.

People who loved 4 often never played much of anything beyond 4. 4 was a great game, but it has some major flaws as well, and 8 years down the line, I was glad to see a number of those things removed from 5.

In 5, we got some problems as well, but I am enjoying it all the same.

Capcom surely botched the launch like no other, and has so far not supported the game as well as they should have. I won't argue their, but the game itself is quite fun to me as when I make a bad choice, thats me making it. when I make a good choice, its also me making it, I didn't enter an option select to get me out of a given scenario and hedge my bets through memorization of inputs.

>>381288698

This >>381288790

>>381289092
"footsies" is a short way of saying it needs less input lag and longer reaching normals.

>>381289101
sf5 is very much about oki, but it is oki that involves players making the choice. Option selects were lame as fuck, and prior to ultra, the vortex OS game was completely out of hand and often inescapable.

>>381288929
I did based off my satisfaction of sf4, terrible mistake. I stopped playing when kolin came out

>>381284871
Shut up saucy

>>381289345
I suppose so, but I feel like SFV is too far in the opposite direction. The opponent is making the choice, but they only have to consider 1 or 2 options compared to the 4 or 5 there was in IV

>>381289448
I'm literally reading the wiki and it says invincibility is a factor of priority.

I don't know what he's saying and why this word is so confusing for people.

Is sfv technically kusoge?

>>381288543
Street Fighter V wasn't an attempt to "casualize" the series, it was actually intended to return to Super Turbo fundamentals. It was a reaction to the hyper technical style of Street Fighter IV, where fantastic players could be vortexed to death by relative nobodies. Everybody was complaining about 1 frame links, execution requirements, option selects, and other tech, when they wanted a return to honest Street Fighter and fair mindgames.

>>381286403
Not play the new game

>>381284835
No one plays SFV because it's good. They play it because that is where the money is. Don't fool yourself. Many SFV pro players has straight up said they don't like the game. But playing it is how they make a living.

>>381289609
yes

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I read through this thread.

Why is it that most critical posts against the game are all buzzwords and no specifics?

While the people who defend or at least give actual opinions on how to fix the game can actually list specific moves both in 5 and 4?

Is it this thread in particular or are most SFV discussions like this?

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>>381289639
>"Street Fighter V wasn't an attempt to "casualize" the series"
>proceeds to explain how the game was casualized to suit casuals

>>381289639
>It was a reaction to the hyper technical style of Street Fighter IV, where fantastic players could be vortexed to death by relative nobodies.

So to fix it they gave every character ridiculous vortex 50 50 guessing garbage.

lol

>>381289503
Yes but in 4 there was often fewer because the OS would take care of 3 out of 4 options.

This went for on defense and on offense depending on the character.

I liked 4 and played it all the way through, but it had heavily devolved into option select fighter 4 by the time the game phased out.

I agree that there might be too few defensive options in 5, but its crazy how people defend 4 and hate 5 because 5 has a very up front 50/50 game.

4 had that and worse to the point of inescapable setups. A good seth had such a ludicrous advantage int he guessing game.

The most invulnerable dp in the game. 2 bar fadc, invulnerable command throw. you could OS a dp and a command throw with him. Good luck with that on wakeup.

Ultra fixed a lot of it with delayed wakeup, but some characters still had easy to memorize oki setups for tech, non tech, or delayed setups.

>>381285707
I get the point of the picture but you should know that the mathematical proof you've got there is still pretty much just highschool math.

>>381289639
>>380938425
FUCKING THIS SO MUCH

I am really sick of gamers in general as they seem to complain about everything. When SFIV was the big kid on the block everybody complained about 1 frame links and FADC's and all that other nonsense. "This isn't street fighter they said, SF is about footsies, mindgames, and outsmarting your opponent."

Then Capcom makes a game that returns to Super Turbo fundamentals as you say and now its "this game is so simple and casual, SFIV was so much more technical with a much higher skill ceiling"

The Zelda cycle isn't just for Zelda folks, its for every game. People hated SFIV until SFV came out and now SFIV is the best game ever, just, lol.

>>381289878
if you play any fighting game, there are 50/50's.

Don't act like the entire competitive mindset isn't to figure out how to force as many of them on your opponent as possible.

If you defend GG or SF4, or Marvel, or any other popular fighting game and call out 5 for being heavy on 50/50's then you don't know shit about fighting games.

>>381290029

That's the thing though. It didn't. Footsies barely exist in V.

Instead it's literally just whiffing normals and crush counters hoping it hits. Everything is safe. Everybody plays the same rush down 50 50 game plan.

There is no zoning(which is also "footsies")

Everything they claimed to change about IV they just made worse and easier to do.

>>381289890
>but its crazy how people defend 4 and hate 5 because 5 has a very up front 50/50 game

I think it's because not every character thrived on 50/50s in IV. Sure you had crazy bullshit like Seth or Akuma, but in SFIV you had the ability to play footsies, to zone. In SFV everyone has a rushdown game full of 50/50s. Even Guile and Sim, the fucking definition of the zoners, can only work if you put some rushdown into their gameplan.

>>381290178
I'm not. I'm complaining about 50 /50s in V because not only are they easier to do in this game. Since defense is muted. But from the very start of the development cycle the producers claimed to be avoiding that and returning to footsies when the absolute opposite is what happened.

>>381290029
Who but shitters complained about the game being too hard? The game would not have skyrocketed to such popularity if anyone was complaining.

>>381286118
SFIII isn't the bee's knees, but COMPARATIVELY, III is chess to V's baby rattle

>casualisation of gaming
https://youtu.be/iSgA_nK_w3A

>"capcom are retards" -bochan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIqxJAyXPqA

>>381290223
Seth, Yun, viper, abel, rufus.... I could go on. That game had a fuckload of 50/50 oriented characters.

>>381290375
How many times will this stupid, utterly wrong video be posted?

remove crush counter from meterless DPs and dashes

make backdash invincible

actually remove gay throw loops

no cancelling into vtrigger

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>>381289932
>the mathematical proof you've got there is still pretty much just highschool math.
not implying SFIII was gaming quantum physics, was a deliberate decision

>relativity

>>381290391
You could go on but your argument doesn't hold up. Literally every character in V is a 50 50 rush down character.

Every single one.

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>>381290482
>wrong

in a casual's echo chamber, anything that's not the screeching of an infant or the sound of it soil itself, is "wrong"

>>381290223
>>381290219

I will agree footsies were supposed to be stronger from their claims, and they currently are not.

I'd like to see that change too. But they are still there, they didn't simply disappear.

Zoning also does still exist. Sim and guile and ryu, nash and chun, can all zone effectively.

Its a bit scarier though when a rog or a laura can snap you up so quick. These are all flaws I won't argue against.

But I think people are often very hypocritical about complaining about 50/50's in 5 and then saying X game was better when X game had just as much or more of a focus on knockdown set play to win.

SF4, at one point people constantly complained about how the first sweep could win the game. It was really fucking bad at that point around AE and AE2012.

>>381290375
>15 minutes
>an hour
Im not watching those

>>381284501
SFV is fine. It's still the most played and most viewed game in the FGC. Haters will be left behind.

>>381290492
no, invincible backdashes were fucking awful.

No vtrigger cancels? I see you don't like fun.

>>381290836
>50% damage comeback at the end of every round

simply epic

you should be able to spend each block of vtrigger one at a time. Like an EX vskill that gives you a powerup or a something for setups or pressure

also you should be able to chip kill with an EX move

>>381290375
https://drunkardshade.com/2017/05/29/in-defense-of-sfv-a-response-to-the-video-the-consequences-of-reducing-the-skill-gap-by-core-a-gaming/

This guy makes videos about fighting games and knows a lot.
Before you say he's a capcbro or something, he's mostly a GG player and has been pretty critical of Capcom in the past.

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>>381284501
You know capcom fucked up SFV when they literally have to play people to keep playing it to maintain an illusion of it being good. In Japan, they call it "Duty Fighter V" because no one wants to play it. At least it's a paycheck, I guess.

>>381287518
You bought a bunch of shitty games and you somehow think that makes you knowledgeable about fighting games?

You didn't even show time spent in any of them...

>ryu
>zone effectively

>>381290589
And how many of the zoning characters were truly strong in 4 by the end?

Sim got raped by all the strong rushdown characters.

Guile was pretty weak overall in every version outside of Super.

Rose was good by the end. Sagat wasn't that good even though Bonchan still was amazing with him.

All the characters that tended to win at high level in 5 were also 50/50 oriented characters.

Yun/Akuma/Seth(though he was riskier) Rufus/Viper.

Zoning was definitely more functional overall, but Guile can zone better in this game than he could in 4.. he just might be the only one who can fully say that right now in 5.

>>381284501
Crush counters are fine. Removing the counter punish from Ex reversals might be interesting though.

>>381290527
so what would be the multivariable calculus of fighting games?

>>381291151
At least use a valid complaint. The "Duty Fighter V" buzzword excuse was already used enough in this thread.

>>381291251
seriously, is capcom scared of zoning or something?

>>381291097
You can just balance the damage output better.

Taking the cancelling away just makes for an incredibly boring mechanic in an already sparse game.

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>>381286527
>best trap waifu

What style do you guys hope the next character will be?

why do people feel compelled to come to threads about games they don't like and tell other people what should happen to it? Like, you don't enjoy the game, it's ok if other people do, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it should flop

>>381291396
>ctrl+f "duty"
>2 results (my post and then yours)

Next level delusion right here.

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>>381291151
>Duty Fighter V
the keks are so dense... every, single kek has so much going on

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>>381291505
doesn't matter, gonna be rushdown again

>>381291406
It is hard to balance zoning effectively i think.

It is either too strong or too weak, and very hard to find that true sweet spot where it feels fair on both ends.

And people are hypocrites. You know if zoning was too strong, people would be complaining in the exact same way they are now about 5 being too rushdown heavy.

>>381291406
Probably because of all the people that don't know how to play fighting games and complain about "projectile spamming". I guess it's not fun for a new player.
I guess it's not so bad that they add way to counter it, since I still feel like good players can have a strong fireball game and good Dhalsims, for instance, can still make you eat a lot of limbs trying to get in.

>>381290764
>it's fine
>bombed in sales

Literally still hasn't broken the number Capcom was expecting it to sell its first month, a year and a half later.
Capcom projected 2 million in sales by April 2016. Here we are in June 2017 and it still hasn't sold 2 million copies. Mind you that was what Capcom wanted in 1 month. They probably were expect 5+ million in total sales.

>>381291505
We already know who the next characters are
Abigail, a Hugo clone
Menat, a Rose clone
Zeku, a Guy clone

>>381291640

True but what kind of rushdown.

>>381291605
Still, there's enough buzzwords.
You don't get upvotes for your funny memes here.

>>381284501
>Would it be better without crush counters?

It would be better if characters had more then two viable fucking combos.

>>381291505
besides the leaked characters..

I want a stinky thai girl who is a clone/disciple of adon desu

>>381291251
I'm not arguing about balance in IV.

If you want to argue that then ELENA who could zone like a mother fucker was top tier.

Ryu was still strong and could zone. Guile was literally fine. Knuckle Du and Dieminion still regularly did well in Ultra. Poison was good. Vega Guile Juri.

All good.

Rose was good. Akuma was good and could also zone just as well as anyone.

You are taking character archetypes as my main argument here and that's not the point.

Zoning was neutered as part of a larger strategy to force rush down. That's why everyone plays the same. There is no room for unique styles.

You bring up Seth as 50 50 rush down and he is but he is also a great zoner himself.

SFV simply doesn't have the system depth to allow for that. Unique play is frowned upon and there is a deliberate reason for that.

E Sports Viewers.

>>381288097
>Don't buy trash
>Xenoverse
>3 MK games
>USFIV

>>381291708

Hugo clone sounds fun, grapplers are always neat to learn.

>>381291640
I think people mistake rushdown with offensive, specially in this game. This game is very offensive because of the lack of defensive options, but characters don't become rushdown because of that.
Abigail is probably gonna be a grappler. He's bigger than Hugo, so he'll probably cover the whole healthbar above him or something.

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>>381291831
The fuck are you talking about? I'm stating a fact. The Japanese call it "Duty Fighter V" because it's a paycheck from capcom but they hate everything about the game.

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>>381291297
likely does not exist... but if it did, it would be a combination of the best SNK had to offer + capcom's finest + flare / content / licenses of NRS + CvS style "EX" style meters etc. (only balanced)

when a fighting game is built around either its roster (NRS) or its desire to pander to casuals (SFV) or is simply a copy-pasting of past successes, without understanding what made them great (SNK), it will always end up shite

>>381291882
I think I am confusing zoning specifically with projectiles in this conversation. I wasn't including strong footsie oriented characters like Elena as a zoner.

Akuma could zone yes, but he was all about the vortex at the end of the day. Sweep into winning the round. Seth was the same way. he could do it, and it was part of his plan. but he got going off a knockdown.

Zoning is definitely weaker in 5, I won't argue that. but it isn't non-existent.

But I disagree. the system depth has nothing to do with that. Zoning can be improved on a hitbox/frame data level. No systems need changing for that to improve.

>>381292059
This is just repeating what you hear in youtube videos and online posts.
If you watch interviews with most pro players they say they like the game but hate some things about it, like the lack of defensive options, lack of creativity in combos, etc. They still most say that they like the core of the game. Even in the interview with Bonchan, that is posted all the time, in the end he says that he doesn't hate the game and that he would like to see it reach its potential.

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What ended it with me was Ed becoming a muscle bound retard the second he was playable. Why does everyone except Dalsim have to look like they're from the 80's He-Man cartoon? I'm convinced that if a skinny fuck like Remy ever came back, he'd get just as blocky as Ed for no other reason then Capcom being lazy shit about their model swapping.

>>381284835
Diablo 3 vanilla is the best PC game by your logic, I hope you know how goddamn stupid you sound.

>>381292337
>they're from the 80's He-Man cartoon?
Because that's what people like. Birdie is a fat fuck and everyone hates his design for some reason. They'd rather have buff Alpha Birdie back.

>>381292337
Those eggs look nice

>>381292270
I think calling zoning in V as "weaker" is a giant understatement.

>>381292337
Well, Ed was trained by a boxer, so it does make sense to some point that he became muscular.
I do agree there aren't that many skinnier male characters in Street Fighter in general.

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>>381292337
>mu-muh male body diversity!!!
>meanwhile still no female equivalent of gief/honda/fang/hakan

Stop complaining

>>381290029
>The game is very shallow and doesn't have parry
>IT'S JUST LIKE ST!

The retards pouring in from GGPO and Supercade love to pretend they know how these games play even though they don't play the games, they only watch them.

SF3 failed because it was broken and the cast dropped so many veterans.

SF4 added a bunch of gimmicky shit and 1-frame links, and had shit like FADC that was crucial for some characters and made them really good, and it was pretty much useless to others + a few other problems that came during the years.

SF5 was an unfinished shitty game that felt like DOA5: Last Round where you can't even afford all the stages and characters even with free FM and colors are behind a paywall so it feels hilariously empty and once people realized half of the developed meta was fake tech (eg. Season 1 Birdie, Bison as a whole etc) they either played it because that's where the money was, or dropped it.

>The Zelda cycle isn't just for Zelda folks, its for every game.

You're a fucking idiot and shouldn't talk about games you don't play.

>>381292483
I dont know. If you watch a match like Zangief v Guile or v Dhalsim, it's very similar to how it's always been in past games. If you watch high level players playing these kinds of characters they can zone pretty well still.
The problem is that it's too hard to handle some characters when they manage to get through the zoning and get in your face. This is where the "weaker" zoning comes from, not from the actual zoning itself, in my opinion.

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>>381292326
>"This is just repeating what you hear in youtube videos and online posts."
>proceeds to repeat what he hears in youtube videos and online posts

OK, sheep. Whatever you say. Here are facts: SFV is a terrible game unless you're not into fighting games enough to actually play any other ones. Capcom learned that the "pro" and "tourney" scenes were excellent for their marketing so they literally BOUGHT the pro scene players. They give them money to keep playing SFV as part of their marketing campaign.

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>>381289639
Except it literally was an an attempt to casualize the series, Capcom even said so on multiple occasions.

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>>381289639
>>381292891

>>381292887

How many years ago did Daigo win a major tournament again? 2013? 2012?

>>381292723
This is what I was trying to say.

There are also a lot of anti-fireball moves in 5 though. probably more so than in 4 overall among the cast.

>>381292337
>What ended it with me was Ed becoming a muscle bound retard the second he was playable

Made it easier for them to repurpose shit so it would take way less effort to make him.

>>381292887
Ok, r/kappa friend. Good thing you have all those pictures ready to go along with those hot opinions that are for sure not bandwaggony in the least.

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>>381292059
>they hate everything about the game.
of course they do... who, who's a veteran of the genre would not?

>shallow
>repetitive
>rush-down or bust
>all bouts play out one of two ways -- "magic pixel" or perfect (when cornered)
>V-Trigger = Naruto "rage gauge"
>got "rage gauge" = viable | no "rage gauge" = Z-tier
>stilted, canned combos euphemised as "target"
>one super per character... in 2017
>fuck-all defensive options
>reversal system is trash
>"magic pixel" titanium defence @ 0-HP... to promote artificial "hype"
>"guts" damage scaling... to promote artificial "hype"
>ham-fisted damage scaling overall, renders pros--schmoes
>shit turd roster
>most newbies are Dan Hibiki tier
>most fan favs snubbed
>most petitioned for [new] characters ignored... again
>slide show net-code
>poor online functionality suite
>DLC racketeering of h'Ono's (((chess))) pieces
>graphical style (esp. stages) questionable, at best
>forgettable OST (save for arranged original themes)
>worse launch than MKX (...which still sold x4 of what SFV did!)

objectively, the only 'good' thing about SFV is the 'feel' of the impact of strikes -- kinda SF2-esque... other than that, the game is the worse entry into the series since behind Gem Fighter

>>381292723

I mean one cherry picked notoriously bad match up yeah..

Then again they gave gief a free suck a mutha fuckin in button. Armored moves. Ex moves. A V Skill. A Head Butt that all pretty much say fuck you to zoning.

He's better equipped now than he's ever been to beat those harder match ups.

And again that's like the one and only example you can make.

Birdie is the same way.. of course it's tougher but in the end he has so many safe ways to beat zoning. The chain. The can. The safe as fuck armored ex moves.

You can get in fast and free pretty much every time.

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>>381291708
>look up rose clone
>another brownie

>>381292887
You do know this article is from pre-beta builds... right?

>>381293093
I literally just took the screen shot two seconds ago.
>reddit!
oh kiss my ass

>>381292483
You can tell that Capcom was deathly afraid SFV having a large, steamed tournament final boiling down to a zoning match.

>>381293126
>I mean one cherry picked notoriously bad match up yeah..
Well, I picked those matchups because they are the extreme, but it tends to be that way with others, too.
There are a bunch of players who play good rushdown characters like Necalli and can't get in on some of the good zoning character players.
It does still happen.

They should add SSF2T to big tournaments
It's a perfect fighting game
Fuck Capcom
Smash could do it, why can't Street Fighter

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>>381292059
>The Japanese

Why do white people always love quoting a few foreigners and pretending those quotes represent the entire country/culture?

nigga why the fuck did capcom allow fight money to be a thing
We already paid for the game, don't fucking make us pay for the characters as well. Release content in pieces? Who gives a shit, but don't make people who paid for the game have to buy the season pass in order to get what could easily be free content. They're already stifling the balls out of the e-sports scene, they don't need the player's money.

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Reminder that 09ers and sf4/v bandwagoners have been cancer since day 1.

>>381292483
also almost everyone in V has some sort of anti-fireball tech.

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>>381293319
>bitching about generalizing by generalizing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSgA_nK_w3A

>>381293208
There's no thinking behind those posts.
We really need more arguments and less spouting nonsense.

>>381293098
>stilted, canned combos euphemised as "target"
Target combos were already a thing before V, idiot.
>"guts" damage scaling... to promote artificial "hype"
Almost all fighting games have guts or similar system
>forgettable OST
FANG and RASHIIIIDOOOOO are some of the best songs yet

>>381293098
>insulting Gem Fighter, one of the most criminally underappreciated and fantastic fighting games ever
Your shitpost went too far motherfucker, don't speak of that which you don't comprehend.

>>381293337

Am I dreaming or these are almost the exact buzzwords I see being thrown at SFV these days?

>>381293478
Tekken has fucking a revenge super and the scaling on combos is fucking amazing.

sf5 is seriously not fun

>>381293320
Well, the way they used to do it, and the way a lot of other fighting games still do it, was by realeasing dlc that split the community while adding characters and changes to the game.
Now at least you get all the updates for free. It is kind of a pain in the ass to grind for characters, but at least it's possible to get them for free.

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>>381292712
>SF3 failed because it was broken and the cast dropped so many veterans.
AND because it came in the death throes of the arcade era -- a key factor that should not be elided

>SF4 added a bunch of gimmicky shit
BUT was an okay knock-about fight after its ten-year gestation (...albeit forgettable when compared to the IP's halcyon years)

>SF5 was an unfinished shitty game that felt like DOA5: Last Round
STOP insulting DoA5, fagget -- at least it never pretended to be anything but a titty parade... and it at least has SOME defensive options

>>381293461
I mean... that article quotes daigo as saying the game is too defensive and slow... I am pretty sure he has changed his opinion since the alpha builds being shown from 2 years ago.

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>>381292620
>meanwhile still no female equivalent of gief/honda/fang/hakan

KoF had Hinako Shijou who is still the best Sumo character in fighting games. But if SF once had Makoto and Tekkan has Leo why the fuck doesn't SFV have more then one fucking body type for everyone except Dalsim? Even Birdie has massively buff arms regardless of his gut and Dalsim is still the most muscular he's ever been. Even DoA as Mariposa for fuck's sake.

>>381293315
Because smash is grassroots. FGC lives on the money injection companies give to these tournaments.

Also the only reason melee lived is because Brawl was SO FAR from what melee was. Despite that, Brawl almost killed melee anyways. So there is no way an old SF game can thrive since they're fairly similar in the grand scheme of things.

ArcSys needs to learn how to tourney
Only Goober Gear can save us from this shit

>>381292620
Not even him but you must not play the games.
>Ibuki is built like a high school kid
>Mika is a muscular wrestler who is supposed to fucking parallel Zangief
>Laura is fit / average with huge tits
>Chun Li is supposed to be slim with huge legs

>WHERES THE OBESE FEMALES?!?!

You're a fucking idiot. Even when there are different body types it doesn't matter unless it's some wonky shit nobody will like that caters to your fat fetish. His complaint at least makes sense because even fucking VEGA (claw) is muscular from SF4 on. Even if we got someone like Elena who was originally lanky as fuck (since you mentioned FANG), she wouldn't even be built the same way so you're arguing against yourself either way.

Why don't you play the games instead of just talking about them retard?

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>>381293478
>>381293487

you may also like...

>>381293450
>>381290375

>>381291102

>>381293550
Its not about shitting on the game. Its about coming up with reason why you don't play the game and become an armchair commentator.

>>381293450
can't stand listening to this r*ddit "analysis" shit

>>381293661
Yeah, I mean that for the people who post these pictures over and over again.

>>381284501
It would be better if they gave us nothing at all. This game is less than nothing. Do you know what's happening to me out there? Mike Ross told me to go fuck myself. Capcommunity told me to shove this game up my ass. Do you have any idea what it feel like to be told to have a game shoved up your ass? I'm gonna lose my fucking fightstick over this. Do you know why Injustice was so successful? They're launching giant lasers from space, hitting people with planes, and taking them into a drug induced fear zone. We're using stubby normals and crush counters. I can't play this shit. Either change the game or it's not coming back for a sequel.

Now get the fuck out of my office.

>>381293032
If Capcom doesn't care enough to spend time making their game look more interesting by maybe not reusing assets for the millionth time, why should people care enough to play it?

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>>381293772
>try to refute points
>LOL YOU LIKE BABBY GAME, I WIN

Nice argument, faggot.

>>381292337
Boring isn't it. Just sitting around watching Peak Practice with your life.

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Anyone want to lobby?

>>381293772
So you haven't actually played Gem Fighter. Keep it out of your bitching, that's all.

>>381293870
>shitting on Core A Gaming
>calling it reddit because you personally dont like it

Fuck off, he's one of the best FGC content creators around right now.

>CEO 2017
>Finals had two pad users
>Winner was a Zangief player

Reminder that sticks are a marketing scheme and tiers are myth.

>>381284501
>counter hits that lead to combos
THAT'S IN EVERY GAME RETARD
SFV has bigger problems than that.

>>381293935
>Peak Practice
If there's anything more boring then a British show about country doctors, I don't know it.

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>>381293661
>daigo as saying the game is too defensive and slow
I think it's meant to read / convey that the game lacks defensive options for those being rushed down -- no push-blocks, no evades, no rolls, no parries, no repels, no... nothing

if you get cornered in SFV, it's like getting cornered in MKX... without an EX stock -- i.e., YOU ARE ALREADY DEAD

crapclowns wanted "Duty Fighter V", so as to titillating the indiscerning, easy-to-fleece millennials and female gamer demographic (the majority)... in this respect--and in this respect alone--they succeeded admirably

>>381293883
yeah, i realized you meant that. I was just kind of muttering it to myself in confusion.

>>381291102
This guy is way more reliable than that "analysis"gook at least this guy knows multiple games and is knowledgeable enough to teach them.

>>381294023
He does make great videos.
This one isn't as thought out as his usual videos, though. There are some inconsistencies

>>381294023
>content creator
>youtube

Reddit cancer.

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>>381294021
>gem fighter

it's fun.... but if you're using it as a measure for competitive fighting games, well... here's my card:

>>381294107
How the fuck do you reliably do anything on a pad
Mechanical keyboards are a fucking better choice

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>>381293996

>>381293884
I got that one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWYho6MaW6Q

>>381294023
>takes like 3 months to make a reddit-post-sounding video about sitting next to somebody vs sitting across from somebody

who cares desu

>>381293032
What confuses me about this is if it really was the case then they could used Rashid's model as a base and whitewashed it instead, he's far closer in build.

>>381293478
>Almost all fighting games have guts or similar system
Only the shit ones

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>>381292337
>Remy, Charlie and Guile in the same game

I want this. People would have to start taking uppers just to be able to watch a match of SFV.

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My problem with SFV is that it was made for esports in mind and that pisses me off to no end.

>forget tactics and having options. Just make sure the game looks fun to viewers

>>381294230
>
I might be wrong, but this build might have predated v-reversals. This is like a month after it was revealed.

The lighting in the screenshot is even that horrible, early build lighting.

This was likely from the build where Gamer bee spammed vtrigger fireballs with chun like it was Morridoom.

>>381294230
You can make some good points when you don't post shit. I'll ignore the end of your post.
Everyone knows the game lacks defensive options and that 50/50 can be too effective at times.
These things are not core mechanics of the game and can hopefully fixed with time.

Try to type a bit better next time, it's kind of annoying to read your posts like that.

>>381294403
Sorry snek only three bar connections here.

>>381294120
>Counterhits at the right time (with a normal that usually has NO special properties by itself) can cause you to be in hitstun for almost 4 seconds / enough time for someone to visually react, dash in AND lead into a combo on an opponent from a neutral standing position
>In EVERY game

Name another one where even a SIMILAR mechanic exists then, stupid fuck. Not even the mechanic that was introduced in the Alpha series worked the same way.

Crush Counters aren't the main problem, but that doesn't mean you can go around say stupid shit pretending you're right. You don't know what you're talking about.

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>>381293680
>Hinako
The cutest little sumo wrestler

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>>381294107
>SF finally playable with series-1 Xbox gamepads
>in-ironically ignoring how dumbed-down the franchise had to get for this to become a reality

>>381294485
>Just make sure the game looks fun to viewers
But it doesn't.

>>381294305
Don't knock it till you've tried it long enough to learn it, there's some remarkable and unique depth in there.

>>381294230

I don't think they succeeded in anything. The majority fans did not buy SFV. They buy Netherrealm's games.

>>381294485
I agree that the game might have moved a bit in that direction, though I think it's because of some changes that they made with some mechanics of the game.
It doesn't feel like the core game was designed like that.

>>381294676
The game is pushed to being offensive solely to keep casual viewers from getting bored.

>>381294608
Snake Eyez and NuckleDu were already top players in SF4. Luffy won EVO with a PS1 controller, shitposter-kun.

>>381294719
The one problem that some people had with SF4 during tournaments is that when people got into footsie matches, they would complain during periods where nothing was happening. That's why Capcom turned the game into an offensive mess with V to avoid those and make the game more interesting to twitch viewers.

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>>381293730
>literally doing this much mental gymnastic just to be be a spiteful cunt

Look, there are no Female Honda/Gief/Fang/Hakan or even SFV Birdie equivalent in the game.

So stop complaining about not having an animu fuckboi with skinny bitch arms, not everyone gets their quota met.

>>381294485
Except with all its crazy bullshit SFIV was still more fun to watch. Look at how Excellent Adventures' numbers dropped with SFV, forcing them to load up on other games.

>>381294743
Why would casual viewers bother with SFV when Tekken 7 is now out? Tekken 7 even as slo-mo hits for an even bigger piece of the casual audience pie.

Ok, so does anyone know how many copies SFV, MKX, I2, T7 and KI had been sold?

>>381294839
It wasn't just viewers who complained about some of that stuff in SF4. People forget that SF4 wasn't the most popular for a lot of reasons back then.
They just tried to adress some of those issues in this game and went overboard in a lot of ways.

>>381294839
Literally everyone called it sleep fighter for a reason kappafuck

>>381294985
Probably because Tekken is rigid and awkward to watch? Most 3D fighters suffer this issue.

>>381295073
The only reasons that people had problems with was when shit like Yun happened or when they lazily put SFxT characters into the build, with one of them destroying the absolute balance that the game had from 2012.

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>>381294503
irrespective of the build, the game is a rush-down orgy--to this very day

crapcom realised that defence is an unnatural technique for most who play these hyper-aggressive fighters (esp. casuals) -- because it's hard/er for people to parallel process attacking with defending, reading the opponent's actions etc... thus, the latter is kept as simple as possible -- and therefore they neglected it
>how many who play a kolin or gouken (etc.) ever get anywhere in these games...?

...'cept, they did not realise that the first thing anyone ever learns in martial arts, is DEFENCE... and treating this integral aspect of combat like it's something that they just 'have to deal' with, undermines everything else that comes with the package

thus, SFV is a shit fest marathon of rush-down. canned combos from hit-confirms... Enjoy!

>>381295135
Sleep fighter to anyone not playing or didn't understand what was going on.

>>381294842
There is little variation in both genders retard. You completely missed the point in that everyone visually looks the same, and have since they transitioned from sprites.

>So stop complaining about not having an animu fuckboi with skinny bitch arms
I'm not the same person, nor did I specifically mention that in my post, dumbfuck.
>not everyone gets their quota met
What imaginary bullshit are you talking about? All some people care about are the roster veterans being playable. Mentally retarded waifu-fags like yourself can stick to skullgirls since you don't care about movesets or gameplay anyways. Get fucked.

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>>381294828
gg on the aa, kuso-sama

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>>381284501
I knew it was doomed the second I learned there was no Japanese arcade release.

People only dont like SFV because all their Japanese gods are getting exposed for not having a year headstart.

>>381295373
Yeah the moment this happened, I knoew capcom said fuck you to their more hardcore fanbase. But I believe they did it because of their freemium model.

>>381295297
>little variation
>Gief, Hakan, Honda and Fang look the same as Ryu and Ken guys because I say so! haha!

Do you even play video games

>>381295148
>Probably because Tekken is rigid and awkward to watch?

I'd take that over watching people doing the same three combos over and over.

>>381295194
I don't know, Ultra was fun and had really good balance for how big the cast was.

>>381295363
Good post.

>>381295524
Elena made Ultra unfun, but thats assuming you werent playing tryhards like Luffy or Gamerbee. I like Ultra cause I always was fighting against someone different.

>>381295521
>people doing the same three combos over and over

Isn't that still better than watching the same awkward juggle physics every match that all end in an unsatsifying thud at the wall?

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>>381295504
>Gief, Hakan, Honda and Fang
>See the female characters look different!

Do you know how to read?

>>381295263
Put a bit more effort into your posts. They are shitty to read and the way you refer to things is annoying.
Unless it's all meant as a shitpost, in which case, good job.

who cares, mvci is looking really fun and super creative.
looking fucking HYPE

>>381291268
I would also like to add perhaps making backdashes not invincible, but airborne on frame 1 while keeping the counter punish the same.

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>>381295462
>People only dont like SFV because all their Japanese gods are getting exposed for not having a year headstart.

when the skill disparity is plateaued, even nigger autists wearing pokey-man or sonic the hedgehog beanies, can become competitive

>>381295462
(You)

>>381295818
nice joke

>>381295462
>>381295849
To be fair, most of these tournaments have been in the US, so it makes sense that Americans are winning more.
I'd like to see how it goes with tournaments in Japan. Yukadon just won Dreamhack in Europe, but CEO was happening at the same time, so a lot of the good players were there.

>>381295818
lol

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>>381295786
I'll be sure to use more "alots", "salties" and "git guds" next time

>>381295738
No. Because Balrog is the only character in SFV that can make a good comeback, whereas even Lucky Chloe can get a great looking slow motion moment in Tekken 7.

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>>381295818

>>381295373
Just because there's now an arcade release for Skullgirls, that by default means there's more people playing Skullgirls in Japan then SFV right now.

>What a time to be alive.jpg

>>381296127
Good, that way we'll know for sure you're shitposting. Thanks.

>>381296153
A lot of characters have really strong V-Triggers, Balrog is just the best example of that. It makes comebacks more common than they should be, sometimes.
V-Trigger balancing is one of the problems with the game, in my opinion.

>>381296373
Balrog's V Trigger is basically a second super move on command, which is why it's good as fuck.

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>>381296230
Is it coincidental that this is what Frieza would look like if he were in MvCI?

>>381296127
'SGARNON M8

>>381295818
I can't see how advanced you're on 19th September! Don't forget to preorder!

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>>381290029
>>381289639
if sfv is so based on ST fundamentals why are the walkspeeds and ranges on normals so pathetic

ST has option selects and 1f links too

you don't know what you are talking about.

Also capcom admitted they tried to casualize the game. No FADC into ultas doesn't mean it's ST, nor does it mean they tried to go for a more ST-like game. Just read what they had to say about making it more 'accessible' and how it's geared around making worse players win more

t. active ST player

>>381293680
>KoF had Hinako Shijou who is still the best Sumo character in fighting games.
Ganryu was here, fuck you.

>>381297784
The only thing good about Ganryu is that he was a commentary on how corrupt Sumo is. Or was that Taka-Arashi? I can't fucking remember because of how similar and uninteresting they are.

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>>381293680
>best Sumo character in fighting games
>not e. honda

>>381291406
they do it better than NRS thats for fucking sure. at least projectiles clash in capcom games

>>381298426
If Honda is so great why has he been a joke for over a decade? You would THINK that in a game like SFV, were zoning is weak shit, Honda would be a great fit because that's what he sucks against, but no, not only is he absent, he hasn't been a viable character since vanilla SFIV.

>>381299259
I would say Birdie plays pretty similar to Honda.
Also, I think both characters have a pretty good zoning game with their normals, and in Birdie's case, his V skill.

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>>381289639
>where fantastic players could be vortexed to death by relative nobodies
Except that's literally what's happening in SFV

>>381299535
Honda would be absolute top tier if he were in V, which is probably why he isn't. Reverse reasoning for Sagat, unless his zoning game is butchered, he will never make an appearance.

>>381299784
I don't think you can assume things like that with characters that aren't in the game.
Even if they keep all their normals and specials working the same way, they can still just tweak damage, frame data, etc. to make the characters balanced.

You'd think they take at least something from SFxT. All of your wake-up options are fucked because the setups are so fucking easy to adjust. Why did they never put in the roll forward option?

>>381299612
Right. That's Laura / Balrog in a nutshell, and Urien before the nerf. Except now instead of just the Gold / Super Gold rank and up doing it, it's now Silver doing it too.