Why did they ruin it?

>>381226096
money

They were a studio filled with too many ambitious ideas instead of keeping to the simple formula that made the first game so good. Not to mention they had to adapt the game to work on people's shitty 2004 internet.

Half the company wanted to do something new they left after 3. The other half stayed for more money (Reach, Destiny). It's the reason Reach was such a piece of CODified garbage

>>381226254
and their "competitive scene"

>>381226485
Halo was always on a decline, but Reach was when a large amount of people finally started to see it.

>>381226326
EPIC BATTLES

>>381226649
>Halo was always on a decline

>Sold more and more and more copies with each mainline game up until Reach.

What did he mean by this?

>>381226629
bro u dumb? the competitive scene almost died out completly with halo reach, it was casualised garbage

>>381226993
>sales means it's good

>>381227013
their Halo 5 league is still going on for some reason

>>381227196
Halo 3 is the best Halo game ever made.

So yeah in this case sales mean its good.

>>381226096
Because Halo needed to modernize and evolve, old Bungie even stated this by stating you can't copy the original game, the next game had to be different and do its own thing.

File: 1416595980930.jpg (104KB, 406x364px) Image search: [Google]

104KB, 406x364px

>>381226096

They axed the source material and hired shitty pandering writers, as well as subbing out terrible art direction. Technically speaking, still great.

I will never forgive 343i or Bungie for destroying the well-written universe because it didn't jive with their game design.

>>381226096
They fell for the competitive meme even though they are a shitty console game.

>>381226485
This

File: 1494265117282.jpg (31KB, 624x384px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 624x384px

>>381227431
>Halo 3 is the best Halo game ever made.

>>381227476
>well-written universe
Yeah, that stopped after Halo 3 for Bungie.

>>381227473

Reminder that Reach is still the best Halo game

>>381226096
because they left to work on destiny leaving the ip with a different studio

>>381227654
He's right

>>381227701

Well they went back and shit on the canon material for Reach. Pretty much anything not written by Nylund is terrible.

>>381227473
Modernize and evolve. Not brutally murder it with sprint, loadouts, KILLSTREAKS?

I'll never fucking get over the failure that was Halo 4.

Fuck you 343

>>381226096
>implying halo was good.
There where just no better console shooters at the time. Cob shit all over halo.

>>381227815
>weak as shit weapons
>coffee straw field of view
>bullets that veer off in random directions
>slow, unresponsive movement
>worst forge
>second worst custom games
>shit base maps
>cancerous equipment
>shit campaign that gets praised because "muh two scarabs"
>no elites as enemies, brutes are a bore

File: secret club.jpg (242KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

242KB, 1280x720px

Halo 1's gameplay was built around what Bungie jokingly referred to as "the Holy Trinity" -- guns, grenades, and melee. Each of these had its strengths and weaknesses, each had its own dedicated button, and none was by itself a sufficient tactic for normal play.

So of course the first thing they decided to do for the sequel was to make it so you could use two guns at the cost of being able to throw grenades or melee. Because using two guns is cool, you see.

Just about every stupid fucking thing that has consumed whatever was once good about Halo is like this. The interesting aspects of the (by no means perfect) original design got shit up by a bunch of retarded "cool" cruft and shallow maximalism, all to bilk the maximum amount of hype and money out of Microsoft and the fanbase of fucktard teens that they carefully cultivated.

In Halo 1 there's eight weapons, each has its strengths and weaknesses, some are better than others for sure but none is so terrible that you'd never ever want to use it. By the end of the trilogy there's like 20 and at least half of them are complete shite. Coincidentally you could probably say the same about the past and impending instalments of the series.

>>381227727
You can read the interview on it if you want. Bungie couldn't evolve Halo past Halo 3.

Jaime Griesemer: "At first there was a lot of, how can we recapture Halo with Halo 3 and kind of undo a lot of things we did with Halo 2? My opinion is always that you can’t go backwards. None of the fans want you to go backwards. You have to go forward, in the right direction. So that sent us spinning. When half the team is trying to go forward and half the team is trying to go backward, you’re going to just spin in place."

Jaime Griesemer: "I think with Halo 4 they were not confident enough and played it too safe, and were very much looking backward. But from what I played of Halo 5, they picked a direction and they went for it. Halo 5 is definitely a better game because of that, and I think it’s a more modern game, too, because they weren’t self-referential."

Jaime Griesemer: "And it’s like, no. If the only way I enjoy this is as a reference to something that’s better, that doesn’t work. You cannot enjoy the reference as much as you enjoyed the original. I felt like Halo 4 was pale imitation of previous Halos. With Halo 5, at least it’s something new. But man, I wouldn’t know what to do with the series now. If you said to me, “You’re the creative director of Halo 6, what do you do?” I would have no idea. You can’t win. It’s an unwinnable situation."

https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/the-complete-untold-history-of-halo-an-oral-history#ulf-5

>>381228503
Does the Needler really count as a weapon?

>>381227701
Nah it stopped at 2 due. maybe 1 since halo wasn't an original idea

>Let's have johnson a major character
>how are we suppose to do that? we killed him in the legendary ending
>uhhhh... say its classified.
>genius

>hey we need to have a good guy elite
>how? they don't speak english
>well make em speak english
>okay
>done how about halo 3. what do we got for the arbiter?
>changed my mind lololo. make em talk sengeli or whatever they fuck they were speaking before
>uhhh

>>381228010
Halo 4 they didn't know how to evolve the series properly and we got COD in space, Halo 5 they've learned and finally evolved and modernize Halo the right way. See>>381228624

>>381228650

The Halo 1 needler is really good on higher difficulties, it kills elites in seven shots and sets off grenades. Great way to wipe out groups.

>>381228890
I guess that makes it useful. It's still absolute ass in multiplayer, though.

>>381228054
I can put most of the complaints in for Halo 2 and add to them if I wanted since it's the worst in the original trilogy, even Bungie admitted to it.

>>381228939

Well i mean, in multiplayer there's no reason to use anything but the pistol, sniper or rocket. it's not a balanced multiplayer game.

>>381228948
They're very similar games, but at least Halo 2 had a decent weapon that could shoot in a straight line, and mostly alright maps.

>>381229094
BR was broken in Halo 2, they should have stayed map pick-ups but the SMGs were so shitty.

>>381229002
There's enough reason to use the Plasma Rifle due to its stun and placement on every map. It's always on the way to the Overshield, so you can grab it and melt OS guy if you were too late. The AR is only really good at quick camo and double melee, but it still worth keeping nevertheless. Same with the Shotgun, it's similar to the AR but trades double melees for actually being able to shoot people. The Plasma Pistol wasn't on enough maps, and the Sniper was more of a sidegrade to the Pistol. Not always worth picking up.

>>381229205
The BR was always the best weapon in every game. Bungie without Hardy LeBel doesn't understand balance at all. Better to spawn people with a weapon they can actually do something with than to spawn players with what is essentially a pair of grenades and their fists.

>>381228054
I can agree with some of the above.

>slow, unresponsive movement
Pretty much the same movement as Halo 1 & 2 to me. They're all floaty compared to other shooters and that's why I like them, but I'll let you have this one.

>worst forge
The first game with forge. It got better over iterations, but none had the same character than Halo 3 had. It was simple enough to ridiculously fun. Forge is arguably best mechanically on Halo 5, yet Halo 5 forge maps are boring as fuck. Custom games on Halo 5 feel like some Garrys Mod shit.

>second worst custom games
Ties into the last point. While the forge and custom game modules weren't at their peak, they were the most enjoyable on Halo 3.

>shit base maps
The fuck nigger? Snowbound? The Pit? Valhalla? Sandtrap had the Elephants nigga. Two. motherfucking. Elephants.

>shit campaign that gets praised because "muh two scarabs"
As opposed to the rushed, unpolished, and unfinished campaign of Halo 2?

Halo 3 had the best community, the best online experience, the best support (no stupid fucking glitches like double shot), the second best campaign. The best big team battle. The second best competitive scene (Halo 2 can have that but fuck the glitches). The best forge, the best custom games.


Halo 3 was the best Halo game. It had faults, but it was the best.

>>381226096
>decide to do a halo marathon with a friend over the course of two evenings
>starting with 1 and ending with the recently released 5/guardians/whatever
>have a blast with 1 and 2, especially since we both love 2 and had never seen the remaster in action
>3 is a bit of a let-down compared to 2 since it's just the normal ass version of 3
>i've never played 4 so we decide to hold off and do ODST first
>have a fucking hell of a time
>really appreciate the story told between 1-3 and ODST, it's a good experience wrapped up with a potential cliffhanger ending
>get to 4
>i've never played it
>no idea what the story is like
>what follows is an endless stream of disappointment and annoyance
>once we realize 5 doesn't have splitscreen we kinda take turns for 3 levels and then give up

we should have stopped while we were ahead

>>381229528
>snowbound
>valhalla
>good

>>381229205
>SMGs were so shitty.

nigger smg + plasma rifle/plasma pistol/pistol were the shit.

BR being broken is like saying sniper rifle or rocket launcher is broken. they made smg the starting weapon like in every playlist in prepatched halo 2.

>>381229663
Not when SMGs alone was your starting weapon, even Bungie realize that starting with a SMG was shit.

>>381229663
It doesn't count as a good weapon when you need to pick something else up to do anything.

>>381227795
Honestly, most of things Reach did to set itself apart from 3 were better in 4. The greatest thing in Reach was Forge World, so at the very least you can make very large maps in it forever.

>>381230102
Forge World would have been better if they kept their idea of having 3-5 large forge canvases instead. That way they could actually make each one look a little bit different. You were never going to be able to utilize all of that space anyway.

>>381229543
>once we realize 5 doesn't have splitscreen we kinda take turns for 3 levels and then give up

I haven't gotten to the Halo series as of yet, but what was the thought process behind this?
I thought Halo was the game that defined the split-screen multiplayer, and they honestly thought it was a good idea to sacrifice that for approximately 6 more fps?

>>381228825
Nah. The "Halo 5 is a good game" meme has to stop.

Halo 5 is shit for the same reasons Halo 4 was, because it's not Halo. Running around like a Call of Duty spastic, jet boosting out of gunfire, FLYING, sliding around like a fucking mongoloid. All this shit is unacceptable.

I miss when Halo was about landing good nades, good shots, and being smart about your gunfights. Not who can hit the random buttons the most. That's not Halo to me.

>>381229528
>Halo 3 had the best community

Didn't play halo 3 as much as I did with halo 2 because of military obligations. but when I came back the community moved on to youtube. highimpacthalo wasn't as active anymore along with other halo fansites but at least the RvB was still kicking, so the community died in my eyes.

>>381230267
True, and 4 (and I assume 5) moved toward that direction. But even if I was NEVER going to use most of that space for one map... I liked the option. I wish Forgeworld had come back with some more filters. Making it snowy or a desert would have helped different maps stand out a lot more. I also always wanted a stripped down Sandtrap as a forge setting, with the option to build it back to it's original form (along with the option for Elephants in more maps).

>>381230592
So I guess you going to keep ignoring the fact that Halo would have become shallow if it didn't evolve or modernize past Halo 3 right since Halo 1-3 aren't similar at all.

>>381230507
343 wanted prettier screenshots, and thought that mattered more than a community that grew up on playing splitscreen with friends. It's sad because that was one of the huge things that defined Halo, and always set it apart from other shooters.

>>381226096
Was there anything to ruin?

>>381230736
I'm one of those youtube Halo fags. I really enjoyed the Halo 3 youtube community. Shit like machinima, montages, MLG competition videos. It was actually pretty quality content. At least for late teens me.

I organized my friends through xbox live mainly. This was around the time it started to get """"good"""" with private voice chat, voice messages, text messages, good friends list. In-game integration. It just. worked.

>>381231154
Would it have become shallow if they kept the old formula? No.

But even if it was destined to be shit with the old formula too, that doesn't automatically mean nu-halo is good. It's fucking shit.

>>381231729
But what else can you add to the old formula to push it any further? That's the problem both Bungie and 343 ran into, if you can't evolve it any further it's time to modernize and evolve it.

>>381232268
It's a shooter. You can't change too much of it without alienating the core fanbase.

>>381226308
Yeah, people pretend halo 2 was a 10/10 but the single player was awful. They wanted to do so much and cut like 40% of the game. Even the properly full game wouldn't have been a good story, it's full of plotholes and the ending is awful.

The single player has maybe 4 good levels.

>>381232268
They should have focused on making it more unique, instead of derivative. Vehicles are a huge part of Halo, focus should have been on allowing more things with that. Maybe different points you could board, that didn't allow you to immediately take over, but gave you a chance to fight for control. Expanding the scale of the game always seemed like a way to change of the formula, such as introducing larger maps with dropships. I honestly like some of the big War gametype for Halo 5, but without splitscreen it meant I couldn't fully enjoy it with my friends and family. They focused on graphics and power gimmicks instead, I think most people wanted a larger scale and more universal control. Shit, instead of a clamor, imagine you could hang off of ledges and still fire, just shakier. I just assume the tech for increasing the scale and keeping the graphics up to modern standard just weren't there.

>>381228706
What did he mean by this?

Nylund fans were robbed of a blue team reunite story. I will forever hate Brian Reed for taking that away.

>>381229543
Why'd you skip Reach?

>>381233937
Yup, still pissed, originally Halo 5 was supposed to be about Master Chief and Blue Team's relationship with Dr. Halsey but that got cut.

>>381232964
That's a great point actually. and I think another problem is that they tried to make the halo formula too competitive. Halo was never taken seriously in terms of balancing and that's what made it fun.

>>381234712
The balance was always map design and weapon placement. Even equipment never fundamentally changed this, they still relied on map control. Otherwise, everyone could do exactly what everyone else could do. Once loadouts came in, that was a whole different part of the game that needed balancing. And some of the balance in Reach was just AWFUL along with poor map design (mostly because they were single player areas turned into multiplayer maps to save time). As much shit as 4 gets, it did a bit better with ability balance (nothing I recall was too overpowered to overly annoying) and maps got some focus again, but it was still moving away from the core Halo formula. It's just weird that a starting player doesn't have all the options of a guy who has played for a week, that wasn't what Halo was about early on.

How is it ruined? H5 is awesome

File: 1465604337699.png (1MB, 852x854px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 852x854px

>>381233937
>ywn play a tacticool squad halo game as Fred

File: IMG_0517.png (1MB, 750x1334px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 750x1334px

>>381232268
>If you can't evolve it it's time to evolve it

>>381228706
Johnson was fine, the legendary ending was non-canon and was just a nice little treat at the end. Its explained in the books that Johnson did escape with a group of other marines on a Pelican.

I think this is broke the fanbase in two. I myself really liked the arbiter story and how he started to unravel the lies the prophets were feeding the covenant. The covenant civil war is still one of my favorite stories told in vidya. The moment I realized I got to play as the Arbiter was a pretty cool moment to me. Bungie did a really good job at keeping that a surprise. However, I know many people didn't like to play him and hated his story arc for many reasons, but really you're mad because they spoke english? Thats literally just a suspension of disbelief thing.

I still have yet to play 4 or 5, mainly because I've heard the campaigns aren't up to snuff. I do someday want to go through it to experience how it plays out though. I owe it to my childhood self. Maybe when Halo 6 comes out i'll go through them all.