Which is the better "souls like" 2D game?

>>381217592
neither.. momodora reverie under the moonlight is better in my opinion

piece of shit shill

>indie pixelshit
>waifus

Ok so what makes this a better game?

>>381217592
>most souls-like
Salt and Sanctuary

>better game overall
HK

>>381217592
I enjoyed salt and sanctuary more

A game cant just be hard now can it, everything has to be related to dark souls? fuck off

>>381217592
SnS is a Souls-like
Hollow Knight is just a metroidvania with a corpse-run.

>>381218703
These two games are obviously inspired by Dark Souls. You fuck off :^)

100% hollow
95% salt
safe to say that if what youre looking for is a dark souls 2D , salt & sanctuary will be your game.

>>381218778
I liked Hollow Knight better

>>381218813
But, what was the inspiration for Dark Souls?

>>381218778
THIS, S&S plays like a ds game , stamina, shields, builds, weapon variety... everything dark souls has
HK has ... a ummm... a sword you can upgrade but looks the same all the game ...

>>381218349
Accurate

Both game try hard to be like Souls, yet they miserably fail at basic stuff. Talk about "b team" meme.
I also found it rather ironic that the worst fucking part of the world of HK was the one with "Souls" in its title.

>>381217592

Hollow Knight is not in any way a "souls-like" game.

No, having to pick up currency on dying is not enough to classify something as "souls-like".

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rate my char /v/

I havent played Salt and Sancturary but I respect Hollow Knight more by default because it doesnt outwardly boast about how it is 2d Dark Souls.

Hollow Knight is a drastically better game than SnS.

>>381219272
It has souls-like storytelling and worldbuilding style as well

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>>381219354
(You) hope you feel better now

>>381217592
I'd have to say hollow knight, solely due to how completely uncreative and lazy the Devs of salt were.
>We like dark souls
>Let's replicate it in 2D
>The bare minium amount of changes so the Devs don't need to put in any actual creativity
>Godawful tween animations
The worst part is people actually lap this shit up, as though these scumbags deserve success for literally stealing ideas and content.
The Devs of salt are the leeches of the industry and give Indies a bad name.

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There's no such thing as "soul like".
As a game HK is way better than Salt. Though Salt was still fairly okay for something done by 2 people.

>>381219091
Re imagining King's Field. and probably DOS dungeon crawler games.

>>381217592
Hollow Knight is superior.

I really like Hollow Knight's sound effects. Overall I don't really find it the most exciting metroidvania and I feel like it often tries a bit too hard with its tone but the sound effects are just 5/5.

>>381217592
Salt and Sanctuary is pretty shit

>>381219771
But, what was the inspiration for King's Field?

>>381219585
at least S&S is a complete game not like HW wich is NOT COMPLETED cuz
>kickstarter no moneeh gib moar dollah
enjoy buying 2-3 dlc to play the full game

>>381217592
if you play either of these games or call them "souls like", you should kill yourself

>>381217836
I just got that actually. What can I expect?

>>381218813
>These two games are obviously inspired by Dark Souls.
Hollow Knight is obviously inspired Super Metroid more.

>>381217592
HK isn't a souls-like, it just has one soulsy mechanic and a very souls story.

So this >>381218349

>>381219959
HW is like 30+ fucking hours long, it's pretty complete.

>>381219350
7/10, pretty ok

Why does /v/ suck Hollow Knight's dick so much? Is it really that good? I don't care for the aesthetic.

>>381220314
*baited*

>>381219959
Yeah, it's not hard to make a complete game from an already complete game.
When you're already ripping off the setting, aesthetic, armour, weapons and more importantly gameplay, there isn't much else you need to do except let the monkeys do all the legwork.

>>381220068
Short and overrated metroidvania. It's not bad though.

>>381220356
It's more
>this is a good metroidvania
>oh also we haven't had a good metroidvania in ages

>>381217836
cool a "cute girls doing cute things" poster thinks their opinions matter.

>>381218205
Exactly.

>>381220356
Neither did I, but if you like metroidvanias it's really good and offers a decent challenge as well. Starts slow though, so don't give up on it immediately.

>>381220356
Gameplay doesn't lie anon

>>381218205
>indie pixelshit
Literally neither of these games are pixelshit.

>>381219957
DOS Dungeon crawler games.

>>381217592
In terms of Souls, S&S, it was designed to literally be Souls, but 2D.
Hollow Knight is the better game overall, which took inspiration for some things from the Souls series and King's Field.

>>381219354
It is. But SnS is more soulslike.

>>381217592
Order of Ecclesia

>>381220356
1. Starvation for the genre
2. The good parts are really good
3. Art design is really good

Ori

Hold on, hear me out:

BotW.

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>>381217592
Dead cells

Rain World.

>>381220670
It was the shittiest metroidvania i've ever played

>>381220679
I'm hearing you out and now I have a load of diarrhea in my ear.

>>381219771
>>381220521
Right, and if you ask before that I'd say D&D.

Demon/Dark souls really reminds me of the structure of a module.

>>381220797
It's the Skyrim of metroidvanias.

>>381220841
I didn't know Ori had a massive modding community that has stood the test of time.

Hollow knight, not even close. It has its own feel and artstyle and is in general a very good game. Salt and sanctuary just is a 2d dark souls that shamelessly steals from the original without doing anything different aside from being 2d.

>>381220314
>game is long, so it must be complete
fuck off retard

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>>381221007
Check a look

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>>381217592
Neither

>>381220356
Because it is a pretty good game
Really big world, nice art, good soundtrack, fun platforming and combat
But it can also get really frustrating because of benches (respawn points) often being pretty far away from a hard bossfight and the game giving you little to no information on where to go, which combined with the massive world leads to a lot of "where the hell am I supposed to go" moments

My favorite recent metroidvania was ESA. It's just overall good despite not being super original, kinda like Hollow Knight.

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I had a lot more fun with S&S so I'm going with that.

>>381220410
Ori and the Blind Forest was fantastic
Axiom Verge was decent
Rabi-Ribi is alright
And plenty of other good metroidvanias in the last couple of years

>metroidvania
>vania
>has no RPG elements of any kind
Why cant people just say Metroid-like instead of spouting meme words?

>>381221302
If only ESA had good graphics
Game is good, but those C64 level graphics kind of annoy me

>>381221496
>Ori and the Blind Forest was fantastic
NO.
>Axiom Verge was decent
>Rabi-Ribi is alright
Yeah. Decent and alright. But not good.
>>381221570
Because that's not how the genre came to be named you autist.

>>381221172
>i have 50 hours so that means that the game is complete and theres no cut-content
enjoy getting those dlc my dude to play the full game

>>381221656
Metroidvania really is the dark souls of game genre names

>>381221615
I think that they serve their purpose well enough. The different environments have clear character and you can easily see what the enemies etc are. But I can see why someone would dislike it. The sequel is going to have a bigger resolution though.

>>381220925
I didn't know Skyrim had.
>>381221281
It's a great game. Not even remotely Souls-like though.
>>381221730
>psssh, enjoy your extra content, kid
okay

>>381221730
Oh I will.
>They have 2 planned minor free content patches coming
>And the Hornet Campaign DLC
Feels good.

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>>381221730
>>381219959
the DLCs are free though. why are you mad?

>>381222187
>cut content is ok
aah the summer breeze

>>381221570
Anon, people think that "character action" is an acceptable name for a genre. Some terms just stuck even if they don't make much sense.

>>381219350
Edgy/10

>>381217592
SnS is a souls clone with a shitty aesthaetic but decent gameplay, that managed to copy the formula pretty well.

HK is a metroidvania. It has adapted some Souls mechanics but thats it, there's no comparison beyond that.

>>381222026
neither are any of the ones in the OP
Also Apotheon has multiplayer , from the other two only Salty Souls allows it localy

>>381221496
Ori was barely a metroidvania. It's linear af

>>381222532
theres going to be like 3 DLC , 2 of them are paid
>why you mad dude xd best gamu eveh
im mad cause i thought that the game was complete, but they didnt get "enough" money in the kickstarter campain

>>381223390
It's campaign, anon.

>>381220796
Underrated

>>381221365
Any tips for Third Lamb as melee? Second phase is a bitch

>>381223390
>theres going to be like 3 DLC , 2 of them are paid
Source?

Plus the game feels pretty complete to me. It's cool that they're addind DLC tho.

when does salt & sanctuary get fun?

I killed the first boss and the next area I got to had a few knights that took like 10+ hits to kill

>>381223646
10 hits really?

If you don't like it 2-3 hours in then it's not going to get fun.

I haven't played hollow knight, yet. But I did play SNS, and I really enjoyed it. I even got platinum trophy for it on the PS4, but it wasn't hard to get at all. I also did multiple playthroughs with different builds. It didn't offer as much replay value as a full on souls game, but there was enough for a few fresh playthroughs.

I'm actually gonna get Hollow Knight tomorrow, so I'm really hoping it's good. I love metroidvanias and this is said to be one of the best.

What about Shovel Knight? That seems quite fun.

>>381223478
Either go light and roll behind it constantly or get a sturdy shield.

>>381223994
well, the gameplay was feeling really slow.

Maybe I'm shit

Is Hollow Knight really Souls-like or is it just as Souls-like as Shovel Knight just because of dropping shit on death? Curious because I might be buying it in a couple days. I'd honestly rather just have simple combat in a Metroidvania.

>>381224420
It's not fucking Souls-like.

>>381223478
Stunlock him with a greatsword.
>>381223646
The Bronze Knights you found are supposed to be roadblocks/noob traps as they're common enemies in a later dungeon, they're there mostly to teach you how to parry/riposte, one you learn it they're harmless.

If you're not having fun by the time you kill the Mad Alchemist just drop the game because there's nothing that might make you change your mind.

>>381224420
It resembles souls for the slow healing and somehow the atmosphere. everything else is different

>>381224420
it's not souls like at all, it only has the drop resource at death gimmick. Gloomy world as well, but that's hardly a Souls invention.

It also has simple combat mechanics that you can slightly customise to fit your playstyle. But the basic combat remains constant, you have a nail and you use that for fighting, always. This also allows the devs to make bosses challenging for everyone, since you can't cheese your way out by equipping some OP weapon like in Symphony of the Night. In HK, you just have your nail and how good you are at using your movement skills to dodge.

>>381224692
That's what I figured. I imagined it was just another Metroidvania, but people are calling it Souls-like just because it's dark or something.

>>381225005
It is a very fucking good metroidvania.

>>381225109
Yeah, I didn't mean "just another Metroidvania" in a bad way, that's exactly what I want and supposedly good. I'm buying it in two days.

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>>381217592
Salt And Sanctuary isn't exactly a great game, and Hollow Knight has great bosses, however in terms of level design Hollow Knight completely shits the bed. I understand that they were going for a sense of scale, that they wanted the world to be huge. But Hollow Knights world is huge just for the sake of being huge, there's almost nothing interesting filling this world. Travelling from A to B just feels tedious precisely because of the fact that it seems to have been designed for the sole purpose of stretching out the game. It becomes so tedious and the way the Map works in this game is just another batch of tediousness on top. I like exploring in games, but in this one the color palette as well as the visual design and layout is just so fucking dull that i just can't bring myself to play anymore after 9 hours. Salt and Sanctuary at least understood when to start and when to end an area.

I prefer S&S

>>381225198
Oh I wasn't implying that. My bad. Just stating that, at least, it IS a very good metroidvania on its own, sans any of the 'Souls-like' idiocy labels that the children tag on.

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>>381219957
>>381220521
>>381220826
D&D is pretty much the root of all RPG's, and D&D's root is The Lord of the Rings, which in turn is based on European Folklore, mostly British, which is based on ancient people poorly understanding the natural world and coming up with funky theories to make sense of it.

>>381223214
>neither are any of the ones in the OP
SnS is very Soulslike and HK at least takes obvious inspiration from the game. Apotheon is closer to M&B than DS.

>>381217592
Probably S&S, but I can't get over the fact that it looks like a mid-2000s Newgrounds flash game.

>>381223390
DLC is not inherently bad anon. Games don't fund themselves.. there's a limit to how big you can make it before you run out of money and are forced to publish it, especially if you're an indie with little leeway.

>>381225524
>D&D is pretty much the root of all RPG's
Assuming you mean JRPG vidya, maaaybe.
>and D&D's root is The Lord of the Rings
Wrong. In fact Conan and Elric had way more influence than LotR.

>>381225756
>Assuming you mean JRPG vidya, maaaybe.
No, most RPG systems in games come from D&D or games based on D&D.

>Wrong. In fact Conan and Elric had way more influence than LotR.
Conan had some influence, but no more than LotR.. I don't really see much Elric influence at all. What are you referring to?

>>381217592
Salt and Sanctuary because being "souls-like" wasn't really part of Hollow Knight's identity.

>>381225941
>Conan had some influence, but no more than LotR.. I don't really see much Elric influence at all. What are you referring to?
Gygax.

The real question is what other games on steam is like Hollow Knight?

>>381224412
what weapon are you using? I can't think of any enemies taking 10 hits besides the bosses.

>>381226149
In what way? Do you like the Metroid-like exploration?

>>381219585
>Devs
You mean the one guy (and I think his gf) who have made every ska studio game?

>>381226294
Is there some chart of metroidvania games? I've played a fair share, but always want more.

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>>381225941
>>381226017
Because it feels kinda smug to just say "Gygax", here's some actual proofs:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_and_influences_on_the_development_of_Dungeons_%26_Dragons

>>381226017
No I mean, what in D&D mirrors anything in Elric? Maybe some necromancy, but Tolkien did a lot on that as well.

It obviously took its depiction of barbarians from Conan, maybe some ritual magic, but otherwise..?

Meanwhile D&D's depiction of elves, dwarves, orcs, goblins, religion.. all Tolkien.

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>>381226451
There is, maybe someone else will post it. There's also a meme one, so watch out for that. Here's a list of the ones I have, the ones highlighted are ones I've played. All of them are worth playing, but Ori and the Blind Forest is my favorite of the list. I've yet to play Hollow Knight, will soon.

>>381226619
>>381226535
(as for the pic, bear in mind he's being interviewed by a Tolkien fanzine and he's specifically asked about Tolkien's influence, and despite all that he says "check out all these other influences I had")

>>381226535
But this pretty much proves my point it's mostly Tolkien?

>>381226294
Yeah pretty much. I'm currently playing Dead Cells, played Ori/Hollow Knight.

>>381226743
Sure, but that doesn't discount the Tolkien influence. I think he doesn't quite understand how much he borrowed himself, seeing as he only mentioned Balrog, Halflings, and Ents.

>>381226784
It says the exact opposite. All that Tolkienian influence you pointed to wasn't actually Tolkien's influence, it was just Gygax putting stuff players wanted into the game.
>Gygax maintained that he was influenced very little by The Lord of the Rings, stating that he included these elements as a marketing move to draw on the popularity of the work

>>381226815
Axiom Verge, Guacamelee, Shadow Complex are good. La-Mulana is in the same genre, but very different.

>/v/ likes game

>WOW WHY ARE SUCKING THIS GAMES DICK THIS MUCH JESUS CHRIST TAKE THIS GAMES COCK OUT OF YOUR MOUTH HOLY FUCK STOP WITH THIS OVERRATED PIXELSHIT INDIESHIT FOR FUCKS SAKE STOP RIDING THIS GAMES DICK SO MUCH ITS FUCKING SLOW AND LINEAR AS FUCK AND BUZZWORD AS HELL AND BUZZWORD TOO MY FUCKING GOD

>>381219957
wizardry, ultima usw.

>>381226930
Doesn't matter, in the end D&D has more Tolkien stuff than anything else, and that's what other creators drew from. How Gygax sees it in his mind is not reality.

>>381226945
Played all but La-Mulana might give that a try.

>>381226654
I think you'll enjoy Hollow Knight, it starts off a little slow with the abilities you have, but does pick up. I couldn't put it down for a solid week.

Thanks for the list, cheers!

>>381226998
>large portion of /v/ likes game
>therefore large portion of /v/ will get butthurt if you insult it
not that hard to figure out.
>>381227106
Only the most superficial stuff was borrowed from Tolkien. Sure, by that right he had some influence, but only in terms of
>these are the races
The actual game derives from sword and sorcery above all else.

>>381227115
It's a weird one. I call it a good game, I even backed the sequel, but it actually wasn't fun after half way through when I pretty much just had to follow a guide. It's sometimes just too cryptic, like you're supposed to be reading the developer's mind on what random ass thing you're supposed to do somewhere.

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>>381217592
Friendly reminder that HK is bottom of the barrel trash designed from the ground up to appeal to the undertale fanbase.

>Non existent difficulty
>Piss poor OST composed by some literal who that clearly can't make good sounding audio for shit.
>Flash based artstyle akin to binding of isaac (large outlines, 0 detail, 0 shading, just simplistic looking shit that your average deviant art novice could shit out)
>Comic relief enemies and bosses that cater towards the braindead Undertale crowd, rather than being intimidating
>Shit rewards for exploring
Woah...I got shit fillter-tier crest I'll never ever use....simply epic...
>Juvenile lore made so that retards can develop their own head canon because the devs have so little faith they can make some actual worthwhile lore
>No optional hard as fuck area at the end of the game so that elite players like myself can actually extract some fun out of this dull mess of a game
Not everybody likes playing baby mode easy shit.

lmao no thanks

>>381223239
Still qualifies as a metroidvania in my opinion and the platforming, soundtrack and graphics are god tier
Combat is really shallow, but doesnt get in the way
Really hope the sequel will live up to that

>>381226654
If anyone was wondering what the "meme one" I was talking about here, it's this one >>381227341

>>381227341
Ok.

>>381227401
>in my opinion
Your opinion is unfounded. Explain yourself.
>and the platforming, soundtrack and graphics are god tier
Wrong (in my opinion).

>>381217592
>Which is the better "souls like" 2D game?
>souls like
Hollow Knight is just a fucking metroidvania with elements from Super Meat Boy

>>381227250
>sword and sorcery
Fair, but that's a genre, not a work.

>>381227341
what's wrong with undertale?

>>381227697
Yes. It is a genre which includes Conan and not Tolkien.

>>381227718
Tumblr liked it.

>>381227341
>I don't like it, so it's bad
Grow up a little anon.

>>381221496
Most upgrades in Ori are for platforming. Also, you're forced to follow a linear path, so exploration is very lacking too

>>381227341
>environmental station a
Can someone spoonfeed me this why this is ranked so high? The pixelart is absolute garbage in this game and the sound/music is meh.

>>381225208
>But Hollow Knights world is huge just for the sake of being huge, there's almost nothing interesting filling this world
What kind of bullshit is this.

>>381227748
A game world can't be a genre defined by the scale of the adventure, can it? You can play high adventure, low fantasy, sword and sorcery.. in the end, the world is Tolkien most of all.

>>381228337
>You can play high adventure, low fantasy, sword and sorcery.
Not really. The actual original D&D is pretty set on sword and sorcery.

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>>381218813

>>381228337
>>381228398
I can see how you'd think this if you were going by post-2e though. But that's what D&D became, not what it was founded on.

>>381227341
your pasta is stale, chef

>>381228478
It's true though. SnS made it their whole deal, and HK was clearly inspired by DS with regards to story.

>>381227568
Whats wrong with the platforming?
Fast paced, great level design, some unique stuff like jumping off of enemy projectiles
Can't find anything wrong with it

>>381228089
Exploration was mostly optional, but it was there

I'm holding off on this till Switch release. Hoping it is soon. Saw an update this month that said it is completely ported and just needs to undergo QA and optimization.

>>381227341
Is Valdis Story worth picking up?

>>381228494
Sure, I never played those. I just think that sword and sorcery titles are generally low fantasy, where magic and monsters are fairly rare. D&D however, has whole countries full of strange races in it's lore (and a lot of international contact), not a majority humans.

Eroico!

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>>381219732
>There's no such thing as "soul like"
Yes, genres, along with every other perception of reality do not actually exist. Now go roll in shit like the dog you are

>>381227341
But Hollow Knight is pretty difficult

>>381228175
Everything else about the game is really good
But I agree, art and sound suck

>>381229008
>where magic and monsters are fairly rare
Why would you think that?

>>381229125
>genres
Exist.
>soul like
Do not.

All so-called "soul likes" are merely ARPGs.

>>381219382
No it doesn't.

>>381229329
>all so-called "arena shooters" are merely FPSs.

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rabi ribi is the best souls-like 2d action platformer ever made. anyone saying anything else is irrelevant.

also, ignore the fucking la-mulana poster, he only thinks that "myst-like" platformers are good

>>381229410
Yes it does.

>>381228175
Cause everything else is just right.
Not him, but ESA is also one of the few games I've found you can heavily sequence break without using glitches, which is fun.

>>381219585
>>381219959
You two are trying very hard to fit in and are both quite terrible at it, imho.

>>381228887
Apart from the hideious art style and the deviant art tier characters the developers seem unsure about what genre they are making as both the exploring and beat em up parts are undeveloped.

I don't think /v/'s list of metroidvanias is very good at all. It gives entirly too much attention to what are essentially unplayable indie-garbage. I have played literally every metroid and castlevania and the worst of those group barely is in line with the best of the indie games. In other words until you have played every metroid and castlevania you are wasting your time playing inferior indie games.

>>381227341
the fuck is apotheon doing so low?

>>381229569
it's a troll post because he tries to fuck with rabi ribi and hollow knight fans

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>>381227517
>>381227875
>>381228507

The city of hollow cucks. Imagine being so assblasted by an image that you have to try this hard to not show your tears.


>>381229062
>Eroico
You mean Noaika.

>Mfw an eroge game with next to no music still has a better OST with the few tracks it does have than HK

Pottery.

>>381229184
>Shitter chimes in
HK is piss easy.

>>381229569
It's right where it belongs. The novelty of the games wore thin quite fast.

>>381229319
Because they are. Conan is a perfect example.

>>381229463
I tried to play Rabi Ribi, but the artstyle puts me off, the story is dumb and I hate dumb characters (especially the "you're a bully" ones)

The last boss I defeated was the one who had the fairies caputed, but I didn't feel like I wanted to play again

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>>381217592
>going magic in salt

I never felt so powerful in a video game. Maybe kotor 2 came close though

>>381229826
i have 400 hours in it

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>>381229686
>rabi ribu
weeb fap bait
>hollow 3dlc knight
enjoy the cut content

>>381229902
pffff my friend, that only speaks about your lack of experience with casters in rpgs
usability of magic severely drops in ng+ and beyond

Why do people not like Ori? That game was so beautiful. o:

>>381227341
I don't even know what half of the games on that list are.
Why no metroid or castlevania games though?

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>>381229754
...No?

>>381230005
>same images every thread
>same messages every thread
>not banned for rule 13
hm

>>381230041

Looks beautiful, is absolutely boring as fuck to actually play.

>>381229713
So did you ever play Rain World? I'm sure you'll hate it, as it's much easier than Hollow Knight.

>>381229463
that game has too much worthless dialogue and too many bosses that fight all the way due to a misunderstanding or for a stupid anime reason. Couldn't play after the pyramid thing and the witch experiment boss, and refunded.

>>381230041
it has the width of an ocean but the depth of a puddle

>>381230187
>Unlike works of high fantasy

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>>381230038
I didn't saw the appeal in NG+ desu, everything one shoots you even in full heavy armor

>>381230301
the witch experiment boss???

>>381224420
1. Healing is a mechanically improved Estus
2. Death mechanic is so meaningless it doesn't really do anything
3. It has this extremely bleak atmosphere, that edgy games want, but its also created by the good Jolly Cooperation atmosphere it has
===
Beyond that, its not similar.

>>381230187
Please go fuck yourself. Or become literate.

>>381218778
What's a corpse-run?

>>381230460
...the tales, though dramatic, focus mainly on personal battles rather than world-endangering matters.

With an element of magic and the supernatural.

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>>381230041
The devs were misleading. They said they were inspired by Super Metroid, so a lot of people expected something on par with it. But Ori lacks on good boss fights, the dificulty spikes are weird, and while you can skip most of the cutscenes, the Disney-like story is not meant for everyone

In reality, the game is a good platforming and it's really fun for speedrun trying

>>381230207
cant ban what cant be banned, retard summer summer child

>>381230750
>With an element of magic and the supernatural.
Yes, exactly. High fantasy does not have an element of, but is steeped in..

Conan's world is an alternative bronze age with the occasional sorcerer or monster. Tolkien's world has entire societies of non-human races, and magic/monsters are everywhere.

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>>381230178
>I don't even know what half of the games on that list are.
Then you should look into them.

>Why no metroid or castlevania games though?
Metroid is shit in general and the metroidvania castlevania games are mediocre and piss easy.
Classicvania is where it's at.

>>381230280
I played it. I'm still playing it actually. 12 hours in it so far.
>as it's much easier than Hollow Knight.
It's leagues ahead of HK in terms of difficulty. The fuck am I reading?

I'll probably rate it quite highly at this rate. The ecosystem of the game that I've heard so much about has proven to be worthy of the praise it has been given.

I can say with confidence that Rain World is a good deal better than HK in basically every single area. Not that that is a hard feat to accomplish given how bland HK is.

>>381230882
why do you think moot bothered with writing up rules then...?

>>381229902
I still need to.
Going for any of the spellblade + faith was really fun. I would image going full caster would be more fun.

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>>381227341

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>>381231118
>he doesnt get it
HAHAHA FUCK

>>381220356
Good game overall, but I'm especially a big fan of the art.
It's well done and feels really fresh after all those pixelshit games.

>>381231320
you're lucky the janitors can't get past the first enemies in rabi ribi bro

>>381230748
you drop all currency on death and have to go to your bloodstain to regain it

>>381227341
Can you just use a tripcode already?

>>381231413
>not filtering the text or the pics
Learn how to 4Chan X, nigga

>>381231413
just filter all his images

>>381231617
still have to see the replies

>>381227341
This.
Pirated the game after the rampant shilling tipped me off as to how bad the game would be. Surprise surprise it really is as bad as I thought it would be.
I got to the deepnest before deleting the game out of boredom.

>>381230664
some top-hat or wizard hat girl that wanted to randomly experiment on the main character. It just felt too random, I would have rather had fights just because of fights rather than "oh no she's gonna fucking mutilate me and gouge out my eyes" and the rabbit being like ": D no I just want to fuck you!"

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>>381231680
replies are also filtered. Especially since he uses the touhou pics, it's easier to keep the filter for other threads

>>381231734
Must be hard to be so jaded. Hope I never hate video games as much as you.

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>>381227341
>marrow god tier
>rabi ribi medicore

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>>381231847
ahhh ashuri, okay. yeah the story is honestly rough but after spending so much damn time playing the game 100%ing it it feels somewhat satirical in nature at this point. it's just part of the game's charm, same with the random lolis

>>381227341
>Terraria
>Metroidvania
Can't wait to see World of Warcraft on this list

>>381231098
>It's leagues ahead of HK in terms of difficulty. The fuck am I reading?
The fuck are YOU talking about? HK gets really hard on those bosses, especially the dreamnail ones. Rain World, by contrast, becomes pretty easy once you've played an hour or so to find your feet. And it just gets easier as you learn more -- it's not long before you're killing lizards and vultures.
>I can say with confidence that Rain World is a good deal better than HK in basically every single area
I do agree with this (it's my GOTY), but I still love HK. HK is certainly much more soulless, in that it's very very good at being a safe Metroidvania.

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>>381232141
If I weren't hellbent on having 1 game in my Pinnacle of the genre tier, then Marrow would be right up alongside La-Mulana in terms of sheer quality.

>>381232397
>HK gets really hard on those bosses, especially the dreamnail ones.
lmao no. There isn't a single hard moment in HK. Those dream world bosses are piss easy to the point that they can easily be beaten on your first try blind.
HK has some of the most baby tier difficulty I've seen since SoTN.

>And it just gets easier as you learn more -- it's not long before you're killing lizards and vultures.
I've been killing lizards and vultures since early on. The difficulty has remained consistently challenging.
Killing regular creatures in Rain World is much harder and tactical than anything HK has to offer.

The easy way to know if a game is piss easy or not is to see if your average youtube cancer can play through the game with relative ease.
Nobody has difficulties with HK, so there's a lot of LPs of the game.
In comparison, there's like 3-4 LP's of Rain World from what I can see. Most of which haven't even been completed.

>>381233251
>Nobody has difficulties with HK, so there's a lot of LPs of the game.
>In comparison, there's like 3-4 LP's of Rain World from what I can see. Most of which haven't even been completed.

I'm not part of this conversation, since I haven't played Rain World, but that's a stupid metric. Popularity has more to do with how many people are playing it than difficulty, and Rain World's style and gameplay are simply more niche.

I haven't played Rain World but I heard there's rain which instakill you and comes and go randomly.

Is it true?

>>381218486
unicorns

>>381220068
how about you play it.
But overall one of the best metroidvanias in recent time

>>381220068
A short but great game

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>>381233638
>No LP's of Ys games on nightmare mode
>No LP's of Cave Story on hard mode
>No LP's of Dustforce in general
>No LP's of Marrow
>No LP's of Grim Dawn with a hardcore character
>No LP's of Terraria with hardcore characters
>No LP's of Valdis Story on Godslayer/Goibnu
>No LP's of shmups being played on their hardest difficulties

Insert 1-2 LP's max for each of these.
LPers are notorious for being shitters. If they can play through games with relative ease, then you know you're playing a casual piece of shit game. Period.

I made sure a good portion of the games on my list weren't niche to prove my point.

>>381233942
>I haven't played Rain World but I heard there's rain which instakill you
It gives you a warning that it's coming and give you a bit of time to get to safety.

>and comes and go randomly.
Not at all, it's on a clock. At the end of each day it'll rain.

>>381234757
Just to check, I looked for "Cave Story on hard mode" on youtube, and found a full page of LP's. You're full of shit.

>>381234757
>Not at all, it's on a clock. At the end of each day it'll rain.
Yeah ok but is the end of each day random?

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>>381235248
Imagine being this retarded.
I've just went to confirm that and 4 of the people who were doing those LP's stopped after 1-2 episodes.

There's like 3 full LP's, and Cave Story is as popular as they come amongst indie shit.

>>381235743
No, and you can check how long you have too at any time, so it'll never really surprise you unless you forget all about the time limit in general.

>>381235970
Well maybe I'll give it a try. I was thinking of getting Dead Cells too but I kinda want to wait until it's out of EA.

Anyway why do you shitpost in every HK game when it's a very good game? It just make you look retarded.

>>381235970
>I've just went to confirm that and 4 of the people who were doing those LP's stopped after 1-2 episodes.
That's 80% of LP's in general.

>Marrowshill got another one

Why are people still responding to it.

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>>381236103
>Anyway why do you shitpost in every HK game when it's a very good game?
Because it isn't. I've played a plethora of much better metroidvania's both before and after it.
It's as mediocre as they come.

>>381236365
Happens more in harder games.
>LPer overestimates himself and tries to play a game like dustforce
>Gets hard walled early on
>Gives up and moves onto something easier and actually completes the LP

>>381236595
rip

>>381236642
/v/ is the most newfag board on 4chan
yes even counting all the reddit on /pol/

>>381218349

>better game overall
>HK
explain why because you really lost me here

>>381236840
>Because it isn't.
Nah it is. It's fun to play, offer a good challenge for the majority of the players and it's got a lot of content. Sure it got flaws but nothing that's major.

>>381236840
Hello can you explain why difficulty = better

Not to be rude but it sounds like what the casualbabbies say about Dark Souls and Dwarf Fortress.

>>381236840
>Happens more in harder games.
Of course it does, doesn't mean the number of LPers is a decent metric to calculate difficulty. That's still fucking stupid, no matter how many smug anime girls you post.

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>>381237487
>offer a good challenge for the majority of the players
Irrelevant considering the masses are morons.

There's nothing fun about piss easy games.

>Sure it got flaws but nothing that's major.
It's filled to the brim with major flaws.

>>381237713
If a game isn't challenging then there's no point in playing it, you might as well watch somebody play it for you.

>>381237830
>Gets well and truly blown the fuck out
>"n-n-n-no that's stupid"
Literally vases made out clay lmao

It's the most accurate of all metrics and has no exceptions to that rule. It's as water tight and reliable as it gets for determining what games are hard and what aren't.

>>381238378
>It's the most accurate of all metrics and has no exceptions to that rule. It's as water tight and reliable as it gets for determining what games are hard and what aren't.

Are you mentally handicapped? Hollow Knight is generally more popular because of aesthetic appeal and gameplay type. It's going to have more LP's regardless, your logic is absurd.

>>381233251
>Those dream world bosses are piss easy
This is wrong. Unless you cheese it, of course. But I myself have enough restraint not to.
>The difficulty has remained consistently challenging
Not at all. By the time you reach Garbage Wastes the difficulty's dropped off considerably. From then on they try to "keep things fresh" by introducing gimmicks -- water in Shoreline, darkness in Shaded Citadel, and even anti-gravity by the time you reach Five Pebbles. And, while it keeps things fresh, it doesn't keep things difficult.
>Killing regular creatures in Rain World is much harder and tactical than anything HK has to offer.
Anon, to kill a lizard I
>wait for it
>jump on top of it
>run around it
>spear it
whilst it's not quite as easy as all that, it's a great deal easier than many enemies in HK.

Although the behavioural focus makes any fight much more tactical, yes. HK is focused less on tactics and more on memorisation and skill.
>>381238378
>Irrelevant
Not in judging a game in general. For yourself? Of course.
>If a game isn't challenging then there's no point in playing it
I hope you don't think the point of gaming is to "challenge yourself". The key to gaming is interactivity -- and easiness does not preclude interactivity. Doom is, in many ways, a very easy game. But it's still a good game, because it uses interactivity very well.

>>381217836
doesn't look souls-like to me

>>381238895
this is a metroidvania general now

>>381238378
>It's filled to the brim with major flaws.
Like? I admit the beginning is a bit linear, finding Cornifer was a bitch (but it got patched), and it had some pretty bad stuttering at some point (maybe it's still there, haven't replayed it). but other than that, it was fine. And I wouldn't call any of that "major flaw".

>>381238975
ok. my favorite metroidvania type game is a hentai-game that i forgot the name of

>>381239139
My friends, we are in the presence of the highest patrician.

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>>381217592
OP is indeed a faggot, also underage and summer. Who the fuck calls the pinnacle of metroidvania games (Hollow Knight) a fucking "souls like" game? A fucking faggot that's who. A faggot who needs to be banned.

>>381238976
He thinks it's easy (it's not) and that that's a flaw (it's not). He thinks the soundtrack's horrible (no reason given) and the artstyle's bad (no reason given). He thinks comic relief enemies are bad, and also present in the game in any significant sense (they're not), probably because he's still thirteen at heart and would prefer Skyrim-tier WOAH SO BADASS shit. He also needs rewards for exploring -- oh, and lore apparently is not a good reward, btw.

>>381239424
bad la-mulana poster. don't you know false flagging is for fags?

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>>381239682
>not genuinely loving Hollow Knight
Don't you have a hebrew cock to suck? Don't forget the balls.

>>381239930
No. I don't. I wish I did.

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>>381239996
I can help

>>381240184
Fuck off kike.

>>381240238
But if you work it hard enough, gold comes out.

>>381240354
I've masturbated enough to know that is only metaphorically true.

>>381217592
Shrouded in Sanity

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>>381238723
>because of aesthetic appeal
False. Hollow Knight looks like shit visually.
normies don't give a fuck about aesthetics anyway, they ate undertale up too and that game looks like a pile of shit.

>and gameplay type
It's another metroidvania in an era where we get one every other month.

Rain World has a great aesthetic and a unique style of play yet there's barely any LPs of it. Shall I educate you as to why? Because it's too difficult for casuals.

HK is piss easy and as such has a lot of LP's.

The formula is never ever wrong. Period.

>>381238747
>Unless you cheese it, of course
I never cheesed it. I fought them as soon as I was able, aka right after killing the regular forms (except for the knight since you can't fight his dream form immediately after due to a lack of movement options) and I shit on them with ease. They're piss easy, it's a fact.

>By the time you reach Garbage Wastes the difficulty's dropped off considerably.
In your attempt to save face, you making yourself look retarded by saying shit like this.

How does the difficulty drop off in an area that adds more hazards on top of all the old ones in a game where you don't necessarily get any stronger?

>it's a great deal easier than many enemies in HK.
Even the most basic green lizard is harder than the most difficult bosses in HK.
Blue and white lizards, which can walk on the background are leagues harder to deal with.
You have 1 hit and your dead in Rain World, and you have to aim your limited ammo.
How you think anything in HK which needs to hit you 10+ times with predictable as fuck patterns is harder than the sporadic enemies of Rain World is beyond me.

>I hope you don't think the point of gaming is to "challenge yourself"
This is what a casual personified looks like.

>>381238976
No space, see >>381227341 for details.

>>381239601
This is the most cringe worthy thing wrote in this entire thread.
Just because you're a shitter who struggled with the game doesn't mean it's hard.

>>381240984
>No space, see >>381227341 for details.
But all of thoses points are wrong.

ITT; people actually arguing with La Mulana fag.

Just don't do it. He's a contrarian weeb fuck who doesn't even like most of the Metroidvanias that are generally considered to be good.

Here's his shitty review of Marrow if you want to see what kind of loser we're dealing with here.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/1425343647457457/recommended/556710/

>>381229463
I only played Rabi-Ribi for all of 10 minutes and it that time it ticked off almost every box on the things japanese games do wrong list

>words words words words
>the most asinine bullshit of a plot
>every girl is a generic moeblob
>cluttered UI
>bosses with 5 billion hitpoints

>>381240984
Rain World on steam:
86% - 445 reviews

Hollow Knight on steam:
93% - 3,232 reviews

Rain World gets barely any LP's because it's unpopular. It's unpopular because it's a niche title.
>Rain World has a great aesthetic and a unique style of play
Exactly. Unique. Niche. Not mainstream. You're an idiot.

>The formula is never ever wrong. Period.
Why are walking sim LP's not the most popular then?

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>>381241454
>This is going to be one of those hidden gems that only the most skillful of players are going to be able to experience if I'm honest. It may sound cocky as but I make it my business to play difficult games

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>>381241165
>Art design being awful
Check
>Music being so bad that the youtube views are less than a Touhou FANGAME's OST
Check
>Difficulty non existent
Check
>Comic Relief bosses (pic related again)
Check
>Filler tier rewards for exploring
Check
>Juvenile lore that only the undertale fandom would find interesting
Check
>No optional hard areas
Check

Imagine being blown the fuck out this hard.

>>381241454
If you're triggered by that, I can't wait to see how much you cry when I downvote hollow knight and give it a negative review :^)

>>381240984
>I fought them as soon as I was able
That's not what I meant, which makes me think you did cheese it. I was referring to stunlocking/attacking without bothering to play it properly.
>How does the difficulty drop off in an area that adds more hazards on top of all the old ones in a game where you don't necessarily get any stronger?
Because you git gud at the game. Well, I did, anyway. The "hazards" aren't all that hazardous.
>You have 1 hit and your dead in Rain World, and you have to aim your limited ammo.
Yeah and you learn how not to get hit early on. "One hit" doesn't mean "difficult". I guess it just means punishing, but if you don't fuck up -- you don't get punished. And you have to be trying to get eaten to get snapped up by the basic bitch green lizards. Even at the very beginning of the game. I don't think I've ever actually died to them, actually.

Just because you're a shitter who struggled with the game doesn't mean it's hard~
>This is what a casual personified looks like.
I'm sorry for you, anon.

>Hollow Knight looks like shit visually.
Explain yourself.
>Shall I educate you as to why? Because it's too difficult for casuals.
Not quite. It's probably because it got God-awful reviews on launch -- and THAT was because it was too difficult for reviewers (casuals). This resulted in people being driven away from the game.

Although many of the reviews were actually pretty good, they just had to slap a big 5/10 at the end of them (see Polygon).

Just stop responding.

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>>381242215
wtf is that 17 year old maya student tier artwork on the left?

I'm fucking amazed at how good Salt & Sanctuary was, considering it was made by two fucking people.

It's literally like, a 20+ hour RPG.

>>381242215
I'm not triggered by it at all, just laughing at how much of much of a gigantic friendless faggot you sound like. I could care less about Steam reviews, but go ahead with that. Pissing in the rain there.

...and again, could care less that you don't like Hollow Knight. That's fine, people have their preferences and they're valid. It's just pathetic that you make it your life mission to ruin these threads by posting the same subjective shit over and over again for attention. A game you don't like is generally agreed upon to be good. Get over it.

>>381242595
surely my next response is going to convince him once and for all

>>381242595
For real though, it's pointless. Hopefully he'll throw on a trip one day and we can just filter him, but it's just so pointless. Nobody is changing anyones mind and he'll stay in the thread for hours replying to people.

>>381242825
Rain World was made by one guy, a turbolibtard musician, and a random selection of on-and-off-again nodevs.

Hollow Knight was made not only by three people, but these people were Australians.

Small groups of people have been making AAA-killers for years.

>>381242847
hello la-mulana poster again you should stop false flagging

Fuck the autist, post comfy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1unm0LS10ao

Is there a high chance Hollow Knight is gonna be part of the Steam summer sale?

>>381243404
Yes.

>>381223390
I 100% the game without knowing there were planned DLC. It's a complete game.

Putting ice cream on a brownie doesn't mean the brownie was incomplete

S&S was literally one of the most enjoyable blind buys I got on Steam. Loved the shit out of that game. I'm really hoping it sold enough for the devs to consider a sequel.

>>381243582
YOUR OPINION IS SHIT REEEEEEEEE

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>>381242113
>Ys Oath in Felghana
400k sales

>Hollow Knight
100k

Yet there's no LP's of Ys on the only difficulty that matters.

Difficulty is all that matters in determining if youtubers will LP something. If there's barely any, it's hard, if every e-celeb hops on the bandwagon, then it's piss easy.

The formula is never ever wrong. Period.

>Why are walking sim LP's not the most popular then?
They are?

>>381242235
>I was referring to stunlocking/attacking without bothering to play it properly.
Oh what a surprise, now I'm not fighting bosses right because I don't lose to them like a shitter. Damn, I wish somebody told me I've been playing video games wrong forever, I wasn't aware I was supposed to lose.

>Because you git gud at the game. Well, I did, anyway. The "hazards" aren't all that hazardous.
That's not what a drop off in difficulty means at all. The new areas add more hazards on top of the old ones. That is adding to difficulty, not dropping it off.

>Yeah and you learn how not to get hit early on.
Something you don't even need to do in HK which you somehow find difficult, kek.

HK
>A ton of health
>Enemies deal half a hit in damage
>Can heal
>Can attack as many times as you want without limit
>Can attack at range / melee
>Enemies die in 1-2 hits

Rain World
>1 hit and you die
>Less movement options to evade predators
>Enemies move in sporadic patterns
>You can only hold a single spear at any given point
>Enemies have small weak points and take multiple hits

Rain World is more difficult. It's not even up for debate.

>Explain yourself.
Already did, have another dose of explanation in the form of this image. HK looks like some newgrounds flash shit.

> It's probably because it got God-awful reviews on launch
Which it got because that's what casuals do whenever they get blown the fuck out. They sperg out and blame the game.

>>381243336
I really love the voice in this track, and I loved even more when you find the bug singer. It kinda made since that it was the only track with voice

>>381243921
Really hope you aren't using the image on the left as an example of good design

>>381243921
>Oh what a surprise, now I'm not fighting bosses right because I don't lose to them like a shitter
This explains much. You are correct: the bosses are easy if you exploit them like a shitter. But why would you do that? You really have no one else to blame.
>That is adding to difficulty, not dropping it off.
My friend, by this time you are used to the game. You control the slugcat easily, you know the ins and outs of the enemies, you know what to do and how to do it. The hazards do not compensate for THIS drop-off in difficulty.
>Enemies deal half a hit in damage
>Can attack as many times as you want without limit
>Enemies die in 1-2 hits
What
>Less movement options to evade predators
>Enemies move in sporadic patterns
>Enemies have small (lol) weak points and take multiple hits
Anon, you're not "just pretending", are you?

>have another dose of explanation in the form of this image
Don't see anything wrong with it. Sure, I prefer La-Mulana, what with it having probably my favourite artstyle of all time, but HK still looks great.

>Which it got because that's what casuals do whenever they get blown the fuck out. They sperg out and blame the game.
A lot certainly did, which is what I said. Some didn't, though. PC gamer and Polygon went the "this is made for better people than me (but I'll score it really low anyway)" route.

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>>381243921
>Ys Oath in Felghana
>400k sales
12 year old Japanese game, and those sales not recent or on PC.

>They are?
No they're not. This is getting embarrassing anon.

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>>381217592
>ctrl+f
>no mention of The Dishwasher

>>381244878
the fuck kinda food to black americans eat that's any better than white american food?

you're all one nation, and you're all shit.

>>381243921
Rain World is physics based random bullshit. Do you think poker is a skill game too?

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>>381244972
>Rain World is physics based random bullshit
>Do you think poker is a skill game too?

>>381234153
Spindlebeasts?

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>>381242847
>I'm not triggered by it at all,
>Immediately goes on a rant showing just how triggered he is
Pure refined comedy kino. I love it.

>...and again, could care less that you don't like Hollow Knight.
Considering you cry your eyes out to me every single thread I'd say you care an awful lot.
Also it's couldn't care less my moronic friend, not could care less.

No need to thank me for educating you though, your eternal ass anguish is more than enough payment by itself.

>>381244203
Image on the left is excellent design.

>Intimidating
>Solid amount of detail

Compared to the image on the right which is devoid of detail and shading and looks like something you'd expect an 8 year old to draw.

>>381244625
>You are correct: the bosses are easy if you exploit them
Killing bosses is exploiting them now. Imagine being such an SJW that you go with the "Think of the bosses!" narrative.

>My friend, by this time you are used to the game
And yet hollow knight is still piss easy in comparison.

>What
>Anon, you're not "just pretending", are you?
Damn what a weak willed bitch. Here I thought you'd actually have the stamina to keep up and you're already faltering and can't dispute the facts I have laid down in front of you.
Either dispute what I said or be quiet, capiche?

>but HK still looks great.
It doesn't, it looks like shit. Simplistic shit.

>A lot certainly did, which is what I said.
Exactly, I am right yet again.

>>381244840
>12 year old Japanese game, and those sales not recent or on PC.
Those sales are recent, and they are on PC.

>No they're not.
Yes they are

>>381244972
>Rain World is physics based random bullshit.
So regardless of what you think about skill, you admit that Rain World is harder.

>"b-b-but it's hard for the wrong rea-"
Irrelevant. The only thing that is being argued right now is which is harder, and Rain World is unquestionably harder than Hollow Knight.
Even rabbid fanboys will agree with that.

Can anyone who isnt a shill tell me if Rain World is actually good?

>>381246115
>Killing bosses is exploiting them now
They're job creators.
>Either dispute
It always was disputed, anon.
>It doesn't, it looks like shit
We've already established it looks good though. A game can't look good and like shit at the same time anon, c'mon.
>I am right yet again.
Are you me?

>you admit that Rain World is harder
He's not me though

>>381246115
>Those sales are recent, and they are on PC.
Source?

>Yes they are

Minecraft
Grand Theft Auto (series)
League of Legends
Call of Duty (series)
FIFA (series)
Garry’s Mod
The Sims (series)
Five Nights at Freddy’s (series)
Puzzles & Dragons
Dota 2

No, they're not.

>>381219243
HK doesn't try to be Dark Souls, it tries to be a good metroidvania and succeeds.

>>381246115
>So regardless of what you think about skill, you admit that Rain World is harder.
Sure, it's harder. But it's not irrelevant at all that it's hard for the wrong reasons. I could make a game where the enemies instakill you by looking at you 99.9% of the time.. it would be very hard, and it would suck dick.

>>381217592
Hollow Knight isn't a soulslike game, so SaS.
SaS also has GOAT lore recommend googling "The Drowned Tome" for a compilation of all in-game lore. Would like to explore the mainland but honestly don't think there's going to be a sequel.

>>381246530
It's alright. It's not as good looking as Hollow Knight, and the controls are a bit janky because it's physics based, so sometimes random shit just happens.. but if you're into that type of game, it's pretty good.

>>381246530
I could try. But my view is coloured by butthurt over its lack of popularity.

I certainly love the game. It's really one of the best examples of videogames-as-videogames -- it fully relies on its interactivity. The gameplay is the story, in that it makes you feel like the scurrying puny thing you are playing as. And it's fun, too -- it puts you under constant pressure, and the fights and chases are full of adrenaline, and it never holds your hand; it's challenging, even if I've been saying it gets easier. You learn new things all the time.

The art is gorgeous. Pixelshit done right -- the pixels work to make the game harsher. You can see that for yourself. IMO it's better looking than Hollow Knight. The actual non-gameplay story is genuinely thought-out, too, with good environmental worldbuilding and acceptable prose (a shocker, coming from Hollow Knight).

The controls aren't janky. They DO take some getting used to.

>>381224243
It's more like Mega man, it's a good game.

>>381226149
You need to play Iji. Everybody in this thread needs to play Iji.

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>>381246530
If you're referring to me being a shill, then you're fucking retarded.
I'll tell you how it is anyway though, since I'm oh so kind.

If you go into Rainworld expecting your average platformer or whatever, you're going to be disappointed.
I didn't like it at first because of that. The games main strength is the ecosystem it is built around.

>>381246906
>They're job creators.
I see their comic relief vibes have rubbed off on you.
>It always was disputed, anon.
You can't dispute facts.
>A game can't look good and like shit at the same time anon, c'mon.
It looks like shit alone. There's no good in there.
>He's not me though
Who said he was?

>>381247045
>Source?
You don't know me very well if you think I'm going to do anything tedious like that.

>No, they're not.
>Names a bunch of random irrelevant games

Damn, I can do the same too.

Dear Esther
Life is Strange
The Vanishing of Ethan whatever the fuck his surname is
The Stanley Parable
Soma

Yes they are.

>>381247342
>But it's not irrelevant at all that it's hard for the wrong reasons.
In the grand scheme of things maybe, but in the context of this argument in particular the only thing that was being discussed is how hard the two games are.
The fact that somebody would even pretend that Hollow Knight comes close to the difficulty of Rain World is just laughable.

Why do people push for Momodora so hard? It's a really short game, isn't it?

>>381248165
>You don't know me very well if you think I'm going to do anything tedious like that.
Assertments made without evidence can be discarded without evidence.

>Names a bunch of random irrelevant games
Those are the top 10 games with most view time on Youtube. You can see yourself out, right?

>>381248165
>The fact that somebody would even pretend that Hollow Knight comes close to the difficulty of Rain World is just laughable.
I guess the premise of the argument was wrong to begin with. Difficulty does not make a game good.

>>381248165
>The games main strength is the ecosystem
Specifically, the way it inserts you inside an ecosystem and you naturally play your part in it -- looking for food, avoiding predators, seeking shelter, killing predators for fun. I wonder whether the Go Here! dynamic actually hurts it. It might've been better if it'd let you more naturally just move around the world.

>You can't dispute facts.
True, but only insofar as my disputing something makes it automatically not a fact. You, by contrast, seem incapable of doing anything but dispute fact.
>It looks like shit alone
See here. It's bad form to argue against objective fact.
>Who said he was?
I'm implying you implied it.

Because of this bit:
>in the context of this argument
He's starting his own autistic argument with you, autist.
>>381248640
The shorter you are, the harder you have to push. Or, that's what I've heard.

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>>381248771
>Assertments made without evidence can be discarded without evidence.
How poetic. That works both ways by the way.

>Those are the top 10 games with most view time on Youtube.
And the games I mentioned are all walking sims which still have hundreds of thousands of views each.
Remember, the whole point of this is you made a retarded as fuck statement like this
>"w-w-w-w-w-walking sims would be popular if that were t-true!"

Don't feel bad for losing though, I always win. It's just a game lmao

>>381248925
>Difficulty does not make a game good.
Neither does a lack of difficulty.

>>381248975
>I wonder whether the Go Here! dynamic actually hurts it. It might've been better if it'd let you more naturally just move around the world.
That's what I've been doing so far. I've just been trying to fill whatever those bars are called (The surviver, Dragon Slayer, The Wanderer etc etc).

>You, by contrast, seem incapable of doing anything but dispute fact.
I merely preach the facts and then educate the people who try to dispute them by showing them the error of their ways.
>See here. It's bad form to argue against objective fact.
The only fact here is that HK has dog shit aesthetics.
>I'm implying you implied it.
Just another thing you were wrong about then.
>He's starting his own autistic argument with you, autist.
No shit, that still has nothing to do with me 'thinking it was you' so what is the relevance again? Enlighten me.

>See a hollow knight thread
>La munalafag is already here

>>381217836
fucking weebs i swear

>>381246115
It's a blue work holding a pink crowbar(?) but it has tits

>>381250390
It's not a Hollow Knight thread. I wish it was, or that we got our general back. It died and no one on /indie/ would discuss it either.

>>381250760
Sorry. I try to lurk when I can, but I'm always busy and there's little to discuss now.

>>381250242
>That's what I've been doing so far. I've just been trying to fill whatever those bars are called (The surviver, Dragon Slayer, The Wanderer etc etc).
Really comfy way of playing desu. I rushed through the areas until I stopped around Sky Islands and just killed shit with scavengerbros.

>I merely preach the facts
If that were true...then you would be agreeing with me by now.

Pause, and think of that.
>The only fact here is that HK has dog shit aesthetics
And yet I have already said otherwise...hmmm....strange...
>Just another thing you were wrong about then.
Death of the author nigga. Read it. It's only five pages.

>Enlighten me.
No need to ask; this duty is a weighty one. Very well. You assumed he was arguing that Rain World was easier than Hollow Knight, which was my argument -- and I'll thank you not to go around depositing my possessions on other people.
>>381248771
>Assertments

>>381250390
He will literally stay in the thread for hours and reply to every single post that praises Hollow Knight for something. I've been on /v/ for over a decade now(I should really kill myself) and have never seen someone that autistic. I think there was some /vp/fag here that had some agenda about Goodra being only female or something, but that's the only other example I can think of.

Seriously. I've been in probably four threads that mention Hollow Knight the past month or so and he's been here for literally every single one of them doing the same shit.

>>381240984
Explain Super Meatboy sales. There is no direct correlation between difficulty and success. Some games manage to get on the wave of popularity with streaming and word of mouth, some don't. The market is oversaturated.

What exactly is meant by soulslike?

>>381250242
>>"w-w-w-w-w-walking sims would be popular if that were t-true!"
No anon, I said MOST popular. They're the easiest games, and according to your formula they should be the most popular LP's.. but they're not.

The list of actual most LP'd games is pretty casual, but not nearly the most casual. Your formula is bad and you should feel bad.

>>381251236
What, not even original Barneyfag? And that was relatively recent.

>>381251390
Shares a significant amount of the mechanics and style of lore popularised by Dark Souls.

Although now some people use it to refer to games with only a few such things, because we've only just begun getting such games.

>>381251214
>Assertments
Not my first language, bite me.

>>381218703
>mad because a game that's literally 2d souls got compared to Dark souls
the autism is strong in this one

>>381250242
>Neither does a lack of difficulty.
I didn't say that, you brought it up as the reason why Rain World is better. But Rain World difficulty is lolsorandom, so it's a bad reason.

>>381251564
Oh, I am sorry. Well then, I must congratulate you on doing so well despite your disability.

>>381251390
It's a super nebulous term. I wouldn't really agree about most of the games that get the word tossed around, although Salt and Sanctuary is a Soulslike, but Hollow Knight is not IMO.

Basically people use it for any game with a bloodstain mechanic, some kind of focus on challenge, and a story that doesn't explain itself(although Lords of the Fallen and the Surge don't follow that example).

Basically, buzzwords. You could argue it's an emerging genre and it might be, but yeah, mostly buzzword.

>>381251665
>But Rain World difficulty is lolsorandom
but rain world is predictable

that's the whole point

you learn to predict the enemies

>>381250242
>The only fact here is that HK has dog shit aesthetics.
So does Rain World. At least HK's are readable.

>>381218703
Dark Souls literally isn't hard, it's just a game.
People only say it's hard so that they can brag about how large their e-penis is for beating it.

>>381251776
Physics are never truly predictable by a human mind in real time, that's the problem.

>>381219732
Salt was unfinished at a base level. There's five levels of magic skills. There's no 5th level magic and being a 5th level mage does nothing to 4th level spells.

>>381251510
I've heard of Barneyfag but didn't witness most of it. I avoided all the threads that mentioned any of his specific triggers, I guess.

>>381251876
Brainlet.png
No really, what's wrong with you?