6 rules to Make Final Fantasy Great Again

Lightning needs more games, she is the best.

I prefer Hallways myself

>>381084280
Also alternate ending DLC and Hetrosexual jonas bros.-esque male characters.

>>381084280
how about:
1) stop making them
2) stop making them
3) stop making them
4) stop making them
5) stop making them
6) stop making them

>>381084451
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GscoqTA-UpM

>6 ways how to make Final Fantasy good
1) combat that doesn't suck: it can be real time, it can be turn based.
2) no level ups, no stats, no hoarding healing items. why? because our focus is making the combat good, and you can't have thoughtful encounters when the player can have any number of different stupid allocations of killing power and survival power. we want the gameplay to actually be good this time
3) integrate storytelling into gameplay, don't make it 10% cutscenes, 90% locked-into-text-boxes. less exposition.
4) likeable villains
5) hey idiots, if you're going to give me a car, let me fucking drive it instead of it being a terrible autopilot hunk of garbage
6) stop making them

>>381084280
yeah I can agree to this.
Just stop trying to make the 7 because it doesn't work, like catching lightning in a bottle.
World building is important, this is why good authors take some time because they know they have to build a world.

>>381084728
>2) no level ups, no stats, no hoarding healing items. why? because our focus is making the combat good, and you can't have thoughtful encounters when the player can have any number of different stupid allocations of killing power and survival power. we want the gameplay to actually be good this time
hold up, then it's not an RPG. What you are describing is closer to side scrolled beat em up or platforming.

>>381085087
It meets every single criterion for being an RPG, particularly that it takes place in an imaginary realm with a fantastical beastiary, the damsel villain ratio is at or above standards, and that the core emphasis of the gameplay is on bedazzling all foes with impeccable swords and sorcery.

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>atb
>jobs or any other system that allows for deep character customization
>stylized graphics
>simple self contained story about group of folks getting together to save the world from an entertaining villain
I want them to at least once try and make a nice FF to cater to old fans instead of chasing after nutjobs likd XV-kun.

>>381084728
That isn't even necessary, they just need to learn how to balance stats properly like KH2.

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You guys are forgetting the biggest thing: time/resource management

Anyway
1. SE needs to stop playing musical chairs with their talent
2. SE stops showing trailers 5 years before they actually work on the game
3. SE stop taking members from one team to work on their failed MMO
4. SE stops treating a single game as a platform
5. SE stops franchising a single game before it's even out
6. SE stops dumping unfinished projects in the hands of a hack and telling them to finish it in 2.5 years

>>381085576
Aka have stats not matter at all

>>381085228
>It meets every single criterion for being an RPG, particularly that it takes place in an imaginary realm with a fantastical beastiary, the damsel villain ratio is at or above standards, and that the core emphasis of the gameplay is on bedazzling all foes with impeccable swords and sorcery.
that's not the criteria for an RPG.
The criteria is to have characters you build through items, stats, and equipment. They Level up in battle and stats grow. Also need a narrative where characters visit villages and talk to towns people so you can see what your character is like around other characters. That's an rpg, many RPGs don't even need all the midieval setting to be an rpg, you just need a world that you can build your character through stats and socialization of other characters.

>>381085261
Seeing moogles makes violent urges well up inside me after Churning Mists.

>>381085591
They have no problems managing DQ properly.
The thing is there is no need for them to take cues from the DQ team since FF keeps selling like hotcakes no matter how terribly it's mismanaged.

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>>381085910
Roleplay, not rollplay.

>>381085995
That's what Role play is. Anything else you have devil may cry or viewtifuljoe.

>>381085995
That's now how it works in computer games and you know it. If reducing complexity and progression was the silver bullet, Skyrim would be the perfect RPG.
Clearly that's not the case.

>>381085995
it's summer alright

>>381086104
>>381086151
>>381086375
Final Fantasy games are foremost adventures. They're like fantasy novels you press A through instead of turning the page. Do you actually care if the RPG label is removed if the combat is improved as a result? The heart of the games is that feeling of adventure, of meeting people, solving problems, beating big bosses, going through twists. You can do all of that without abstractions like experience points. Is that not what makes Final Fantasy Final Fantasy?

>>381085987
I wouldnt be surprised if the DQ team put up a long office barrier between them and the rest of the SE teams.

>>381086521
>Is that not what makes Final Fantasy Final Fantasy?
no its not,
when you build characters through stats you gain new powerful abilities that you want use on other mobs. You also get different classes that have certain strengths on their own. Then there is certain combinations that do more damage or make you immune to certain types of damage. The whole thing about final fantasy is building a world breaking type of character while enjoying their story along with it.

>>381084280
except ffxi was the best game in the series, you fucking retard

Enix is unable to provide the magical tricks that enhanced ff. They'll bury it

>>381086709
Sometimes I like to believe that Enix absorbed Square to make money off their main competitor ip being dragged through the mud for decades instead of being gracefully canned.

>>381085910
Codex would like a talk with you. Like, a real big one.

>>381087001
Nothing he said precludes the game from having you gain new abilities or classes.

>>381084280
How about they let FF die?
It's pretty clear they have no idea what to do with the series anymore, might as well start a completely new IP and pick up the pace from there.

But obviously they won't because FF is a cashcow brand, you just have to accept that and that you're not part of the target demographic anymore.

>>381084728
you're a fucking idiot

>>381087186
nothing he said was an rpg either

>>381087309
So?

>>381087183
so what, everything I said was in the realm of a final fantasy game.

>>381087323
then his point was invalid. The thread was about final fantasy, not the next platformer.

>>381087489
Are you suggesting that Dragon Quest 1 is more true of a Final Fantasy game than Final Fantasy Tactics?

>>381084280

> Implying Final Fantasy was ever great

>>381087643
how did you come to this conclusion?
No where did I mention Dragon quest. Both are RPGs.

>>381087810
>FFV
>FFT
>Lightning Returns

>>381087643
Considering FFT is basically TO lite, yeah.

>>381087643
plus final fantasy tactics is a tactical rpg, hence the name. It's still an rpg but plays more like chess than your average main line final fantasy. Other games like this Are Ogre tactics and fire emblem.

>>381088085
Actually I should've reconsidered that comparison given how bizarre and serious FFT's story is.

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>>381088070
>LR

>>381084280
>we don't give a shit about food
How about you shut up? THe food was the best part of FFXV.

>>381088238
Lightning returns had one of the most unique and complex JRPG battle systems ever. https://youtu.be/2PC_pR_al0g

It's almost a shame that this game has the XIII name attached for all the fools to bag on, because this game is a key inclusion to the genre since jrpgs of the PS1 era. JRPGs have been growing more stagnant with the years and at best becoming action game hybrids to present themselves as an "evolved" genre. Now we got a game where the navigation is meaningful, purchases and inventory management are meaningful, and the combat utilizes real time elements in all the right ways without completely giving up the technical management dynamic of traditional JRPG combat.

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>>381088070
People were seriously mentally damaged after two installments of XIII to be tricked into enjoying LR.
It's a dull fetch quest simulator with a shitload of random encounters that give you literally nothing since all character progression is tied to quests.
But hey, combat is super deep because you manage 3 ATB's and you can show off your reflex by tapping guard to reduce damage like in a bloody Mario rpg.

>>381088612
>Lightning returns had one of the most unique and complex JRPG battle systems ever.
I wasn't commenting on the battle system, didn't look bad either but 13 all together wasnt good either.

>>381088612
>Lightning returns had one of the most unique and complex JRPG battle systems ever
Mixing FFXIII and Valkyrie Profile with some light elements picked up from decades old SaGa games isn't unique, complexity is also debatable.

>>381088934
The previous games battle system don't have much meat, they are a mix of redundant options with a bunch of prime options(think Enemy Skill Materia in FFVII, Summons and then Quick Hit in FFX, Temper and attacking in FFI and even just the attack option in FFVI) across the the game, with certain options rendered useless upon acquirement(like most occurrences of "Poison" spell, well except in you know FFXIII in which it is useful against enemies with high HP) .

Which Final Fantasy has Fire not outclassed by Fire2/Fira or Fire3/Firaga (or higher in FFII) at the latest point of the game? FFXIII

>>381089992
flare

>>381089992
>Which Final Fantasy has Fire not outclassed by Fire2/Fira or Fire3/Firaga (
this is a bad thing how?

>>381090325
Obviously, entire parts of your moveset being useless is bad design. FF13 was a huge improvement. Fire is best for raising the chain gauge. Fira has a larger chain bonus but costs more ATB. It gets a chaining bonus during stagger, so is most often used then. It has some AoE. Firaga is best for fast elemental damage in really quick encounters or for the juggling effect.

Shouldn't be FFXVI
It should be a VIII spinoff about Ultimecia
Or a X spinoff about Jecht
Or a V spinoff about Galuf
Or a IX spinoff about Beatrix
Or a XV spinoff about Ardyn
Or a XII spinoff about Balthier
Or a II spinoff about Mateus
Or a VI spinoff about Shadow
Or a I spinoff about Garland
Or a III spinoff about the warriors of darkness
VII, XIII and IV have enough stuff already.

>>381089992
>Which Final Fantasy has Fire not outclassed by Fire2/Fira or Fire3/Firaga (or higher in FFII) at the latest point of the game? FFXIII
Is that supposed to be a good thing? Instead of giving spells some sort of progression you're stuck with the base one forever unless you need aoe and/or enemies are not immune to extra cheesed stunlock offered by tier 3 spells.

>>381090656
>all tiers of spells being useful
vs
>only the highest tier being useful

The former is obviously better. See >>381090489

>>381090489
>needing a chain gauge
that was only made so they could add more numbers
It's not useless, fire 1 allowed you to use magic at lower levels the higher you go the stronger the magic would become and you would use the next strongest spell that would look cooler and do more damage. It just sounds like you hate progression and need everything now.

>>381090651
>Or a X spinoff about Jecht
>not Auron

>>381090819
its not, it makes progression boring and pointless. The whole point is to be rewarded for your progression.

>>381091163
Auron would be there obviously. I mean, what adventures has Jecht been on other than the pilgrimage with Auron?

>>381091086
The Chain Gauge offers a variable multiplier that ranges from nonexistent to x9.99. Maintaining it pre-stagger requires frequent attacks, else the gauge will reset. Staggering an enemy offers numerous bonuses, but causes the chain gauge to reset itself after 45 seconds or less. This multiplier is potentially the largest in the game, but it also takes the most time to set up, and has the shortest period of maximum potential.

>>381091246
Progression in a well-designed game is gaining more versatility in your moveset while the older options remain useful (FFXIII).

Progression in poorly designed games is newer moves invalidating the older ones (like most FF games).

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>>381090489
Except all that illusion of depth is lost in spamming auto-battle which already knows better than you how to optimize chain gauge and stagger damage.
But sure, kudos to them for making all elemental spells functional to a degree when your entire skillset is a mere fraction of what the older games had to offer.

>>381091283
I'm saying Auron should be the POV character. Jecht would just be a retread of Tidus for the most part.

Also I'll toss in that a XII spinoff should focus on one of the "villains" like Vayne or Gabranth. Balthier would be fun, but there's not a lot to develop there.

>>381091436
The "skillset" in previous games had tons of superfluous and/or ineffectual abilities that added only ornamental depth, not mechanical depth. Sorry, but that sort of dismissive analogy isn't accurate; what you're referring to in this case is fat and dressing, not meat.

FFXIII offers 4 distinct damage multipliers that are under player control: COM role, chain gauge, offensive buffs, and offensive debuffs. Each of these multipliers compounds with the other multipliers. The more of them you employ, the more powerful the cumulative effect.

>>381091392
>Progression in a well-designed game is gaining more versatility in your moveset while the older options remain useful (FFXIII).
>Progression in poorly designed games is newer moves invalidating the older ones (like most FF games).
It's the exact opposite, it show's a lack of creativity and makes it monotonous. Gaining new abilities is what people look forward too. A well design game already has that versitility when they have enough MP to cast the spell. might as well through out the entire idea of an rpg.

>>381084280
The rule with Final Fantasy games is
>large graphic behind the text in the logo => bad game
and XVI is looking too good.

>>381091635
Maybe.
Vayne's not a fighter tho, just a politition. Gabranth has no where to go with his story aswell.

>>381091392
>The Chain Gauge offers a variable multiplier that ranges from nonexistent to x9.99. Maintaining it pre-stagger requires frequent attacks, else the gauge will reset. Staggering an enemy offers numerous bonuses, but causes the chain gauge to reset itself after 45 seconds or less. This multiplier is potentially the largest in the game, but it also takes the most time to set up, and has the shortest period of maximum potential.
all this sounds more of a hassle and a pain in the ass than just picking firaga.

1) Bring job classes or a ton of playable characters that fulfill these job classes back.
2) Turn-based combat.
3) Old school fantasy with maybe steampunk elements.
4) Minigames. Triple Triad the bomb.

Or just remaster Final Fantasy VI.

>>381091686
also sounds like the battles would just last even longer and would make the average player throw the controler in his next random counter.

>>381092030
I can't tell if you are falseflagging or not, but yes, this is the exact mentality most FF fans have. That's why FFXIII was met with such disdain.

>>381091686
The shit you're talking about only made the entire paradigm system more shallow, you know?
I tried experimenting with different formations early only to find that stacking roles is the only correct way of playing this shit.
So the entire flow of battle in XIII is as following - buff, debuff, com and rav to build a chain while swapping to medics to heal up or sentries to soak telegraphed attacks. Rinse and repeat.
There's your fucking meat.

>>381092332
not him but even that small description you gave still has more depth than the average old FF game

>>381092314
well that and the story along with the hallway design.

>>381092558
not really when you are controling 3 or more characters with different sets and abilities. Plus the fact that the monsters were would all be affected same way in 13 where as in the others you have to employ a different tactic.

>>381091392
>Progression in a well-designed game is gaining more versatility in your moveset while the older options remain useful (FFXIII).
>Progression in poorly designed games is newer moves invalidating the older ones (like most FF games).
I don't disagree with this, but I need to ask you why you're playing FF games at this point, might as well go play some other series, even FFXIII is very shallow despite making most stuff balanced and mostly relevant at any point in the game.

>>381084280
1) XII is the world structure they need to use if they are going for a 1:1 scale. Expand it a little bit, that's enough

2,3,4) Agree

5) They have to release something every year mate, it keeps the investors quiet. But yeah, at least one big title a year would be sweet.

6) No.

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>>381092558
Arguably it's a comparable depth. The thing is that XIII feels like you're just switching the AI to one of the 6 settings due to over reliance on auto battle since they made sure to make manual input delayed and almost never worth your time.
I honestly don't wish to advocate for the depth of FF series as a whole since I consider it to be a baby's first jrpg, an entry point to the genre and not something that can grant you any bragging rights.
XIII's main fault is that it wants you involved as little as possible. Walk in a straight line, watch cutscenes and mash auto battle in fights while sometimes swapping paradigm.
Some might find it acceptable, I find barely counts as a piece of interactive media, let a lone a fully pledged AAA game.

>>381093245
ok this makes sense. This is what the problem was with the battle system. I can't speak for lightning returns I stopped at 2. Sounds like they made it a little better in the third one but you only had one character to control.

>>381091436
>ATB refresh
>Action cancelling
>Paradigm buffering
>Each character does each role differently
>No depth
Not even niggers are this dumb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pMcm5MuhZw

>>381084280
No more boyband crap
No more unlikeable shit characters like the entire cast of FFXIII
No wannaba action combat, either give us turn based or REAL action based combat YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH!!!
No linear crap like FFXIII
Make exploring fun and interesting again
Bring back Uematsu tier OST
Good magic system, no draw crap like in FF8
Make all party members controllable

>>381094047
>you need to cheese the game to pull off a no experience run
Gee, like in literally every other FF.

>>381095664
A quick overview of that video's strategy:

Isolating Sarah with her cast step to not get 1 shot in AOEs,
properly timing breaks because the boss can auto kill your party and you only can auto revive once
Paradigm shift movement cancels and as well as monster special cancels
etc

This alone puts it above everything in the series gameplay-wise, and your likening it to cheese like KOTR or Quick Hit only outs you as a single digit IQ nigger

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>>381096963
Are you still comparing no experience run to regular playthroughs? None of this shit is relevant if you play XIII normally.

>>381090651
>Balthier

>Not Basch

>>381084280
Nah, just let Naughty Dogs make it. Boom. Instant success, 6 million sold first month, 20 million lifetime sales, 10/10 everywhere.

>>381097692
And? It's still faster and more efficient to utilize a variety of strategies often spanning your entire moveset in the XIII trilogy. This is in contrast to previous FF games, where you have SINGLE MOVES that make everything else worthless in comparison.

If you honestly can't see the stark difference in quality of game design there I suggest you stop posting forever.

>>381097692
Seriously, if you're comparing what is possible to what needs to be done, no other game holds a candle to FF13.

>>381084280
1. FFX's turn-based battle system with some tweaks.
2. Job system.
3. No random encounters.
4. FFXII level/world design except a lot more condensed and layered, also add jumping like in VII/XIII. No open world memes.
5. Unique/timeless artstyle instead of muh realism.
6. Multi-species party.
7. Villain that antagonizes the party throughout the game.

A good Final Fantasy game requires good world design first and foremost, and an intriguing backstory to go along with it.
Next come the characters, which should ideally not be annoying, and have actual development. Hire some decent writers for once, SE. Only then should they start working on the plot.

As for actual game mechanics, the job system would be a welcome return - something like FFV but with some new twists to boot. More equipment slots. I'm partial to the classic turn-based combat but something like a slightly slower Type-0 system that allows you can switch between party members would work too, I think.

>>381084280
Wah wah boo hoo not muh.

>>381098669
Not really, FFV was one of the best in the series and had minimal backstory or characters. Gameplay should be the priority.

Agree with most of it but I'll add another.

Stop with the shitty realism, stop trying to make the perfect hair when it makes everything else look like shit, give it a timeless style that'll always be gorgeous to look at. Sick of them showing off this "cool" new engine when it means nothing. I remember when they were practically fellating themselves over that tech demo of a stupid frog. Who cares?

I mean fucking hell, FF7 had blocks for characters but the backgrounds are still beautiful. Not to mention a world that's genuinely interesting.

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>>381099216
They seem to have grown out of the Luminous engine wankery, both FF7R and KH3 are on UE4.

>>381099039
The world(s) were based around an interesting concept, though. And the characters were really charming and likeable even if they didn't have all that much to say. By current video game storytelling standards, those characters would ideally have more lines of dialogue and a little more development.

>>381097706
>Basch
There's nothing about his backstory that needs expanding on and his role post FFXII is basically just being a bodyguard.

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>>381084280
I agree 100%. If they did this, this series would become my favourite again.

>Turn based battles

Come on now.

>>381100385
there's nothing wrong with turn based battles. only autists care about it not looking realistic.

You're all idiots and I'm the king of /v/, heed my opinion.

JRPGs, Final Fantasy included are all about story. That's it.
Xenogears has a mediocre battle system.
FFVII holds an average battle system with Materia being interchangeable.

Even if your game has a solid battle system, no one will care because the games themselves are 40 - 80 hours long and you can't have shields and swords carry an entire experience.

>>381100779
I cringed.
>the games themselves are 40 - 80 hours long
Most JRPGs are infamous for shit pacing for a reason. Very few can sustain that playtime.
>you can't have shields and swords carry an entire experience
Yes you can, just design good gameplay.

Xenogears also sucked. The platforming aspects and combat gimmicks pale in comparison to Super Mario RPG, a game Square developed several years earlier. The pacing is terrible even before the infamous second disc (at which point, if anything, it actually gets better). The level/world design is as banal anything released during that era. FF7's combat wasn't good, but the game at least allowed you to speed up battles immensely so you can get to the okish parts (the environments, dungeon designs, some charming sidequests and minigames).

>>381101319
No one plays JRPGs primarily for the gameplay.
It's an aside to the narrative.

Then again if they cut all the random battles out they could make a vanquish-tier JRPG that's 10 hours long.

Figure this is a good place to ask. Has anyone played the phone ports? Are any of them good?

>>381102248
They are not.

>>381102157
>No one plays JRPGs primarily for the gameplay.
I know most JRPGfags have bad taste.

>>381102248
You'd be better off installing an emulator on your phone and emulating the originals.

>>381102248
They're fine.
The problem is they're very "NES-sy" games.
You can't play them on a phone.
You have to play them while on the floor, on a CRT, for 6 months straight in 1992 because your parents wouldn't buy you a Super Nintendo.

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>>381102583
>You have to play them while on the floor, on a CRT, for 6 months straight in 1992 because your parents wouldn't buy you a Super Nintendo.

>>381102854
Jokes aside, they really are a product of their time, 80's NES RPGs especially.
You can't play through Phantasy Star I these days, you'd kill yourself.

>>381103045
It really just isn't the same. As insane and illogical as that sounds.

>>381084280
I personally like the remasters, the remaster of 10 helped me get in the series and I preordered 12 zodiac age. They seem like they don't need much attention so I doubt they are taking a ton of resources from the mainline.

>>381084280
>tfw I'm a square enix developer but I work on Dragon Quest
Sorry m8

Man, improvements in game hardware have done so much for video games

>>381084280
tl;dr

Just make Final Fantasy play like Dragon Quest

>>381103260
Can you tell them to produce a Studio Ghibli-tier Dragon Quest?

>>381103759
Why don't you just play Ni no Kuni.
Try out DQXI when it comes out in English, and there WILL be an English release, I promise.

>>381103759
>Studio Shitly

Fuck off. Dragon Quest is 10/10 on its own.