Is Super Mario Sunshine overrated?

git gud

>The Shines
A lot of them are admittedly creative and fun, but that doesn’t take away from the amount of ‘’Awe, fucking bullshit’’ moments I faced in Sunshine. Most of the secret levels you find in Delfino Isle are just bad. They’re hard for the wrong reasons. The one that frustrates me the most isn’t even the Pinball thing everybody talks about, because I got lucky with that one, but the one where you hope on a lillypad that goes down a water stream and the only way to control is F.L.U.D.D. Disgusting. Another good example is the stars where you surf on a squid, and you can’t get off the squid unless you get the shine on the quay, but due to lots of camera glitches and shit controls I needed about 15 tries just to get it.

>The Camera
The camera can actually be awful even compared to 64’s. It has a mind of its own, and it’s kind of funny to see games like Yooka Laylee get destroyed for it while Sunshine still gets called a masterpiece even with a way way worse camera. My favorite example is this awful star in Pinna Park where you have to climb up a waterfall to an electric koopa and the camera keeps going behind the wall for no reason at all. It made me mess up this shine about 10 times.

>>380603542
Wet Dry World is amazing. Fuck outta here.

>F.L.U.D.D
I won’t say Fludd is a bad addition. At certain times, I like it. I think Sunshine needed to do something different than SM64, and I think they did it well. It does, once again, lead to some bullshit moments or bosses. The goo that you see everywhere is what I hate the most. Fuck that manta ray boss in the hotel, it’s just not fun and once again it shows the game is unfinished. It’s just a white sprite on the floor that spreads goo.

I’m going to conclude on F.L.U.D.D because I think that’s the biggest difference with SM64
To me, it just speaks loads when you realize the secret levels where Junior steals F.L.U.D.D. are simply the best in the game. They’re the most exciting levels, the ones that challenge you, as a skilled gamer, the most. They’re simple but they’re without bullshit. These levels are the closest to an actual Mario 128 that we get.

It’s sad to say but I think Sunshine is overrated. Nostalgia probably plays a big role in this, I’m sure. It’s not a bad game, but it’s just not on the same level as SM64 and the Galaxies. The lack of diversity and levels and the frankly frustrating solutions to a lot of shine break the immersion.

I love you /v/

Yes, it is overrated. Like 90% of the GC library.

Children were able to beat the Lily pad level and squid surfing. "It's bullshit because it's hard" isn't a valid complaint

>>380603542
>Is SMS overrated
>when it has the lowest Metacritic score of the 3D Marios
>when it constantly gets shat on here

>>380603542
Overated? Its generally regarded as the worst mainline Mario game alongside Mario Bros 2.

>>380603542
The general consensus for Sunshine back in the day, was that it was a pretty good game, lacking a certain something special. The best stages are the floodless obstacle courses.

But then you could see support for Sunshine swell as the years passes, and everyone who was 5-10 years old when the game came out, swears it's an amazing Mario game. Because they played it with limited experience, and no greater expectation. So it was massively impressive to them.

>>380603942
It's hard because it's full of bullshit elements, know the difference. It's not pollished enough, too much things can happen and just repeating a level 15 times just so you get lucky isn't fun

>>380603542
THE ONLY GOOD THING TO COME OUT OF THIS GAME WAS THOSE STOLLIN STUS

>>380604673
NANDE

>>380603619
In fairness, if I remember right that Lillypad Shine is notorious for being the most difficult Shine in the game - it's bullshit but like, I feel you can give it a pass, it's not like that shit design and difficulty is present in the rest of the game (for the most part), and it's alright to have a real fat super challenge.

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>overrated
The Galaxy games say hi.
And they're good games even.

Wii babbies are already here.

>>380606239
To get there you need to take two boats and most likely your yoshi will die on the way therefore you need to start all over and it's not challenging, it's just a waiting game.

Then you have three lives to complete it, after you have to take the two boats with yosh again. HAVE FUN

>Sunshine
>overrated
People have shit on it FOR YEARS because of the addition of F.L.U.D.D. and how it isn't just a regular platformer like 64.

The terms over/underrated mean absolutely nothing to you idiots.

>>380607106
why do you only have 3 lives? also there's a one up in the lily pad river that's easy to get.

>64 babby thinks Sunshine is overrated
64 is massively overrated just because it was "first".

The Galaxies are absolute dogshit though, way to prove you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

The vast majority of people recognise that Sunshine, while still being a good game, is the worst 3D Mario (aside from 3D Land). It's just that Gamecubebabbies are extremely vocal and claim that it's the greatest game ever.

>>380607920
are you at least aware that you're retarded?

>>380607920
>64 is massively overrated just because it was "first".
Nah, the ratings are justified - Mario 64 is a great game. As the OP says, it still holds up decades later. Actually, considering it was "first", as you say, it's a staggering triumph.

The freshman foray into 3D platforming had no right to be that good. You'd have expected something more along the lines of Megaman Legends or Torok64 - quality game but with dubious controls, lots of clipping, and very primitive camera.

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The physics and camera were great
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVH4EsFi-EU

It's a shame really. I think it handles sharper than the Galaxies but each to their own.

Synshine is not overrated you idiot. it has the lowest score among 3D mario games and it isn't even as popular as other titles

>>380608758
The secret levels were great but everything else was meh. The camera clearly isn't designed to work with FLUDD. And while the physics are great, you rarely need to make use of them because FLUDD renders most of the platforming trivial.

>>380608758
oh, I very much agree. As I said, the floodless stages are simply amazing. One of my favorite additions to the moveset( although it fucked me up at first) is the momentum jump you get after doing a slide.

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>overrated
you have no idea what the fuck that word means, Sunshine is widely hated and regarded as the worst 3D Mario game, if anything, it's underrated despite easily being the best 3D Mario game to date, if you ignore the blue coins and Yoshi sections being a hassle instead of being fun from variety

>>380609426
you can't say it's the best 3D Mario, as 64 is objectively superior

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>>380609647
64 is stiff as fuck, Sunshine's control and physics are perfection

>muh long jump
fuck off

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>>380609378
>>380609386
>FLUDD renders most of the platforming trivial
Mostly disagree. Seems like every 3D Mario after 64 has had a crutch for jumping anyhow.

Galaxies had the Spin Jump + Clouds
3Ds had the Tanooki Leaf
Odyssey has the hat, etc.

Sunshine is really cool for what it does as the overworlds try to be more interconnected than 64, and then have Galaxy-esque level design for the secret levels.

Probably a bad example, but I like how FLUDD enables momentum related stuff with sliding
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTIEGHQfInU

>>380610173
The room for error that FLUDD allows is far greater than the room for error that spin jumping/super leaf/etc. The secret levels made pretty good use of pushing FLUDD to its limits during the second run but the rest of the game doesn't. Sunshine's overworlds and missions in general have very little focus on platforming compare to the other games, including 64.

>>380603542
I like it less after each playthrough.

>>380609647
>>380609932
They both control perfectly. Say what you will about 64 OR Sunshine but Mario controls very well in both games.

If anything, Mario 64 is the overrated 3D Mario game. It's still pretty fun but the camera and controls feels like ass

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>>380611327
>Sunshine's overworlds and missions in general have very little focus on platforming compare to the other games, including 64
Now this is what has me curious on Odyssey, the trailers make it seem like the world is more connected, which would probably hurt the platforming.

I'll probably enjoy it, as New Donk City doesn't seem to have a defined way to go through the level, similar to say Rico Harbor, so lots of alternate routes can be taken.

But you do bring up a really good point here. 64 does it well ironically enough since while the levels are open, a lot of them are just massive floating islands. Whomp's Fortress, Cool Cool Mountain, etc, where the platforming isn't barred by realism?

>>380613458
>Now this is what has me curious on Odyssey, the trailers make it seem like the world is more connected, which would probably hurt the platforming.
Odissey seems to have smaller levels embedded inside the big world

>>380603542
It is generally disliked everywhere, even here. There are people who stick by what it does right, though. And you're picking on that.

>>380612757
You guys should go check the video where an actual speedrunner tries Odyssey. Holy shit im excited

https://youtu.be/27SWKUt_Cus

>>380607175
This

All anyone does now is try to justify their old juvenile biases.