How do you think Odyssey will compare with 64 and Sunshine? I

The few levels I saw during Treehouse were straight line linear levels similar to Galaxy, which was kinda upsetting.

>>380556854
New Donk City has a lot of exploration in the videos. The other areas don't seem to have as much, they seem like tiny explorable areas that are attached to linear climbs. I assume there will be many many more worlds than have been shown so far. There pretty much has to be for a Mario game to work right. Obviously there is a hub world, with the ship. Maybe there is more to it or something, but it doesn't compare to past hubs if that is all there is. The nearest they have come to an open 3d Mario was probably Sunshine, but only because you could assemble the island from all the areas, not because there was any actual openness. Of course the actual zones in Sunshine were nearly pure exploration instead of linear. Maybe Mario would get more openness today if Sunshine had been received more warmly when it was released.

>>380556854
Level design looked more like 3D world to me, with a lot more of event scenarios that aren't really platforming, like the forest bottom you can fall into and then move a tree for a moon, at least that's how it seems from the tree house. Also, still looks slower than 64 to me. I dunno about about the discovery aspect, but it's true you had to rely more on clues and read the environment in 64, so it's kinda eh, but the worlds are bigger here and there's more events (like I mentioned), so I guess it makes sense. Personally for me it's about combinations and transitions into different move sets that I like about 64, and this doesn't really show that. You're not looking at something and saying how do I get there and then doing a series of jumps and such to get there, you're still taking the obvious path laid out for you, though a little less obvious now, admittedly, because you can possess things that change up the ways of getting there, but it's still fairly obvious as they usually put the enemy right next to it as big HINT.

>>380558549
>Of course the actual zones in Sunshine were nearly pure exploration instead of linear. Maybe Mario would get more openness today if Sunshine had been received more warmly when it was released.

Sunshine was linear in the objective sense, since worlds would reorient themselves depending on which star you picked, though on occasion you could get different starts despite that, plus the coin star. Granted blue coins and all, but it's not like 64 where it was mostly a "go on then, go and find them", though it did happen to an extent (unlocking cannons and so forth). I guess in that sense it's more like 64, as moons aren't a locked objective that boots you out.

Watching the treehouse demo killed my hype, just the way she was exaggerating how fun or how big and "so much details xd" it was.

It's also too "feminine", which makes for beautiful art but it's like it wasn't made with the perspective of a game designer but of graphic artists. It's just not involving, it's contemplative and dead.

>>380559350
Many objectives could be completed out of order, so not really that linear. The world re-oriented because they needed to reuse resources, but there was very little to dictate how Mario reached any goal. There were plenty of small things to discover and fiddle with, some of which even changed when the zones reoriented.

>>380559739
Maybe my memory is just failing me, but I'd say it was something like 70-30, locked-freeform shines, but again, maybe just memory lapse.

>>380559373
I can not stand the tree house people, they're incredibly annoying. I mute most of the time. They feel like a combination of someone who never played a game and an old time door to door salesman pitching you the handy-dandy-save-you-all-the-time-in-the-world-one-and-only-miraculous acme sponge, now with a thousand uses and new and improved lemon scent!

It has proper camera controls, so that puts it above SM64 already.

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>>380556854
Depends on how much of it involves hat tricks. Sunshine felt very gimmicky due to the reliance on FLUDD for mostly everything; if it's more platforming it'll probably be closer to 64.

But the checkpoints and the general flatness of levels seen actually seems to suggest it being somewhere between Galaxy and 3D World. 3D World style checkpoints were in the footage too.
>>380560632
I only replayed it once but I remember it about the same; I'm remembering a lot more Shines that required a particular mission. Even some of the FLUDD-less levels required the corresponding Shine to be picked to unlock the entrance to the stage, which was fairly lame because it would've been cool discovering it without the FMV intro.

It honestly looks pretty bad. judging from what they've shown, there's way too much exploration and hat gimmick segments and not enough linear platforming. Galaxy 1 & 2 were the best in the series because there was a balance of challenging platforming and exploratory levels that were just as good as ones in typical mario levels. I much prefer linear platforming than running around collecting shit or deviating from core mario mechanics by means of the hat on enemy function and that seems to be the focus in this game.

>>380560632
>>380561157
I just played SMS this year. The vast majority of shines are locked to certain missions. Even SMG lets you go out of order more than SMS.

>>380561157

The fludd was used for platforming and introduced new platforming possibilities. It was much less a weapon than a platforming tool. People don't like changes so I get it, it wasn't super intuitive to use either so I gotta admit I prefered the fludd-less levels.

But the fludd wasn't a gimmick like weapons are in Ratchet & Clank if you see it as a platformer. It denatures the genre so much that it makes it mainly a third person shooter with platforming elements.

>>380561158
>Galaxy 1
>challenging platforming
>exploratory levels

I dunno man, I mean, I can recall 1 or 2, like the one with canons blasting as you dodge on a moving platform and lasers while upside down at times, but galaxy was not challenging and I'd say under 10% or so of the levels were exploratory, like the water world one with clouds.

>>380561157
original pic source ?

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I think SM64 and Sunshine will feel a bit better to play, but Odyssey will have more interesting level design.
SM64 has this really nice sense of weight to your movement and once you pick up some speed, it feels really good to keep that up. Sunshine feels a lot more binary in that you're either standing still, or going at full speed with diving and shit. It has a vast moveset and controls are exceptionally tight, so it's still a ton of fun.
From what I can gather from Odyssey, the movement is a bit closer to Galaxy, but with some of Sunshine's options. So you'll not go very fast and there probably won't be a lot of weight to the movement, but you have a lot of options to use, which is a huge step up from Galaxy and 3D World.
But, the big selling point for me is the level design. You have these small, focused platforming sections similar to Sunshine's secret levels, or some of the ones in SM64, but you also got these larger, open environments where you can run around and explore for a while. What I love is that the forest they showed off didn't have music. It was just ambience. The fact that you can fall down to a lower, darker area looked amazing too. Then, once you exit it, you see this large vertical area with enemies and platforms and it's all intertwined. That got me really excited.
I am fully aboard the hype train. I honestly can't see how this game won't be one of the best Mario games ever. 3D or 2D. The fact that it's coming in October rather than November or December made me so fucking happy.

>>380562351
>It denatures the genre so much that it makes it mainly a third person shooter with platforming elements.
Well, that's because that's what it is. I think only the first game is ever said to be even considered a platformer, and generally I hear people say it's the one that aged the worst as a result.

>>380563534
>You have these small, focused platforming sections similar to Sunshine's secret levels
Where? I didn't see that in the stream.

>>380563968
>Where? I didn't see that in the stream.
It was shown pretty early. Here's an example:
https://youtu.be/hUObvU9A_Cg?t=7m17s

The vertical part I was referring to is here:
https://youtu.be/VAHHffNF8SA?t=21m18s

At some point in the game, there absolutely needs to be a quest that involves Mario rescuing Pauline from Donkey Kong, while barrels roll down the scaffolding of a building under construction. If this doesn't happen, then the game is a complete loss.

>>380564365
Ah, yeah, I saw that first one, I guess I had a more literal vision in mind when you said SMS secret stages.

The seconds a nice area and has some exploration feeling to it, so that's good. Missed it before. Area reminds me of one the sonic game stages for some reason though.

I hope it has some galaxy stages. If the game is made of different places, it should be one of the places.