Intel will sue Microsoft to prevent Xbox emulation

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>>380518537
And here's the important excerpt, which as far as I can tell is the legalese equivalent of the Navy SEALs pasta

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>>380518537
>Intel will sue Microsoft

>>380518537
Good to know intel is actively holding gaming back.

Why do you people shill for them all the time?

Haven't there been like a million emulation lawsuits in history and every single time the judge tells the plaintiff "fuck off retard"?

>>380518537
yeah..no. they just need the okay from publishers that made a game and then they came make it bc it's not like they are reselling the og xbox

>>380519576
>bc it's not like they are reselling the og xbox
They are reselling a digital environment that replicates the OG Xbox, which had a proprietary Intel Celeron-derived CPU inside it

they already re-released OG xbox games on 360 though

>>380519297
Because the alternative is AMD: 2011's Technology, Today.

>>380518537
Would they even need to emulate the CPU? Xbox is x86. PC is x86. Xbox One is x86. Unless I'm missing something they just need to write some libraries for the API calls to use.

>>380520303
They also inexplicably stopped at some point

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>jews out-jewing jews
Wow, what a surprise.

>>380520516
my guess is that it wasn't super popular especially since the games were already real BC. the og xbox games are still available to buy http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/Product/Fuzion-Frenzy/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d8024d530856

>>380520516
Well yeah there weren't too many games worth playing

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>>380518537
>Intel will sue Microsoft

>>380520472

No unless there are proprietary instructions on that custom CPU and I doubt Intel would claim them as their own. AMD had all the instructions of that chip and more.

This parent threat is however aimed at ARM chips used in phones from getting into the desktop. See Windows 10 emulation of x86 to run Photoshop.

>>380521372
>I doubt Intel would claim them as their own. AMD had all the instructions of that chip and more
The Xbox One has an AMD CPU yes, but the original Xbox, which is the one they were just announcing emulation for at E3, runs on Intel.

>>380520437
>he doesn't know about ryzen

>>380521646
Yes, I do. Ryzen is the glorious technology that catapulted AMD into this decade, where before they were putting out Core 2 Duo-level products.

>>380518537
REMEMBER TO BUY THE DLC TO GET ALL THE FEATURES OF YOUR MOTHERBOARD GOYIM

>>380518537
Doesn't matter because the Xbone has an x86 CPU inside of it which runs the code natively without emulation.

They did threaten to sue MS and Qualcomm for emulating x86 on ARM though

>>380521957
then why bring up Excavator and Bulldozer being awful if they aren't even their current CPUs

>>380521547
It doesn't really matter whether it's Intel or AMD. Intel "owns" the x86 architecture, which they licensed in perpetuity to AMD. AMD owns the patents for the 64-bit extensions, which Intel licenses from them. So it's a giant clusterfuck for anyone else that wants to enter the arena, which is why Microsoft wouldn't be able to write an x86 emulator for ARM. This actually makes some sense, since the last thing Intel is going to want is to give more leverage to ARM. They're already getting fucked hard in the mobile sector there.

Man OP you are a retard, you think MS doesn't already know this shit?

>>380522580
Yes, because Microsoft has never made a retarded legal mistake before

Emulation isn't illegal
Can they even do anything?

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>a retarded neet on /v/ thinks he knows more than an army of ip lawyers

>>380522890
It doesn't even matter, unless you want to play Xbox on a tablet. Microsoft could legally create a compatibility layer for Xbox on Windows, since they wouldn't need to emulate x86 instructions. They can't do that on ARM processors though. Not that it really matters too much.

why doesnt bill gates just buy intel then?

Someone post the "I don't know who is jewing who anymore" image

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>>380523138
>a retarded army of Intel lawyers think they know more than an army of Microsoft lawyers

>>380518537
>emulators are illegal now
as long as they don't use any copyrighted code it should be in the clear.

>>380523675
They're emulating a copyrighted CPU

And as far as I know the original Xbox is the only major console that had an Intel CPU under the hood

Emulation is legal though

>>380523061
OP is an idiot, just ignore him
>>380523138
this, MS has an entire army of jew lawyers

>>380523761
>They're emulating a copyrighted CPU
Patented. And only certain instructions. Technically, Microsoft CAN make an x86 emulator, using the original instruction set. The patents on that are expired. But there are new instructions covered by patents that they can't use. It all depends on which instructions the Xbox uses.

>>380520472
This is more about Microsoft wanting to force Windows users over to ARM, and Intel getting worried about the #2 OS moving out of being basically x86 exclusive.
Essentially Microsoft is going to bundle an x86 emulator into UWP so apps from the Windows Store can easily run on ARM devices something Intel obviously wants to stop since if Microsoft does it Apple will definitely do it as well.

Has basically nothing to do with the Xbox unless Microsoft is planning an ARM based gaming console (possibly a Switch competitor) and want it to be able to play some original Xbox games.

>>380524214
>>380523138
Why are you guys calling me stupid when it's Intel making the legal threat

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>>380518537
The case will never hold. Emulators can't legally be tried unless they use the original copyrighted software, keys, and/or bios owned by the company in question.

>>380523061
>>380524214

Someone doesn't know about bleem.
Emulation isn't illegal.
Profiting from it is, it cannot be incorporated in a commercial product you fucking moron.

If they emulate the infrastructure, and then add it to Xbox, they're essentially selling intel's hardware infrastructure without their permission.

>>380524134
i dont think it is if they use patented shit to do it.

>>380524214
>this, MS has an entire army of jew lawyers
Intel is literally run by Jews. Lots of their processor codenames are Hebrew words or Israeli cities.

>>380524728
Haswell? Sandy Springs? Kill yourself?

>>380524658
>Emulation isn't illegal.
Without licensing it, emulating a patented infrastructure is illegal, period. Technically it's illegal to reproduce unlicensed patented materials even for individual use.

>>380524838
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_codenames

Ctrl+F "Hebrew" and "Israel"

>>380524935
Not if it's your own proprietary code. There's a reason emulators haven't been stopped all these years. You cant copyright claim something you didn't make. This is why they go after roms/iso's so hard.

>>380524658
They can argue they're emulating the entire Xbox, which is owned by Microsoft, not the intel chip specifically

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>>380524838

>>380518537
Yeah, random anon knows better than microsoft's legal team.

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>>380525230
>Steven Rodgers is executive vice president and general counsel for Intel Corporation. Richard A. Uhlig is an Intel Fellow in Intel Labs and director of Systems and Software Research.
Are these guys "random anons"?

>>380524935
forest through the trees you dense motherfucking retard.

>>380525128
That kind of schoolyard reasoning means literally nothing in the eyes of the law. they own xbox, not the chip patents, they're free to emulate the exbox, but not the chip patents, meaning they're free to emulate half of it, if they can construct a virtual, brand new infrastructure in the place of the intel chip infrastructure then its fine, but as long as they're using intel ip, they can't do shit doesn't matter if they own the box or the motherboard. Its like taking someone's phone, then claiming it belongs to you because it was charged on your charger so its curently operating on your power. It just don't work that way.

>>380524547
Software Patents, Intel has probably internally coded their own x86 emulator for ARM and other platforms and then gotten as many patents on it as they can specifically as weapons to use against Microsoft and Apple if they ever think about trying to jump ship.

Nobody can stop older emulators because the prior art exists all over the place, but Intel is in the position to add features to their chips, add support for those features to their emulator, and receive software patents both on the implementation and the core concepts those involve. Even if the patents don't hold up to even the minimal amount of scrutiny it will mean millions in court costs and months of delays.

>>380518537

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulator#Legal_issues

The only thing I could see Intel using here is maybe the fact that Microsoft has/had access to internal information on the processor.

>>380525446
That left guy is browsing /m/ and the right one /aco/.

>>380525079
>>380525161
>Lots
>Shows a list with barely any.
Okay.

All these nuanced arguments are missing a bigger point

How are Microsoft and Intel going to drag each other to court when they've been completely codependent for 30+ years? What about the bad will they're going to generate against each other in and of itself?

>>380525994
People sue each other and continue doing business together all the time, especially at the high corporate level

>>380518537
microsoft wouldn't have announced the xbox thing unless it had all its ducks in a row, there is no way they would have even said it if they were worried about intel suing them.

i honestly doubt this. i mean it would be a huge pr blunder for them to announce original xbox games for modern consoles if intel was going to lawyer up and sue.

>>380524658
>>380525679
bleem! won the case against Sony, fucktard

>>380526742
Which is why the Bleemstation 4 was such a big hit last quarter

>>380525994
The writing is on the wall that the traditional desktop market is no longer going to be as dominant in the industry as it used to. Some segments are still growing, but on the whole its market share is on the decline.

Intel chips are way too expensive, and the need to have an external discrete graphics chip for decent performance is just a killer when you look at how cheap ARM SOCs are getting. Its already difficult for Windows devices to compete against ARM devices and they're scaling up in capabilities faster than Intel is scaling down.

Microsoft wants to stay on top of the industry and get their #1 OS position back from Google's Android/Linux, that means that they're going to have to get into the ARM market.
Intel meanwhile wants to do everything they can to stop it because their dominance is utterly dependent on users being locked into Windows, if it goes ARM then they're not going to be able to charge 100x what their chips are worth and its going to be much harder for them to keep AMD and Nvidia subordinated into side roles.

Its going to be a huge and messy divorce, its been obvious its coming for years, but nobody really wants to think about when its really going to happen.

>>380518537
Wouldn't it be fairly easy to just port all the games that matter?

>>380526620
It's literally the opposite. Big partners try to avoid any conflict. Any legal request needs to go trough a shitload of hands and even then they will first request a partner conference to solve the matter without legal actions.

For microsoft and intel who have a clean history there is no way they will go into court for a floppy case like this. There is no bad blood, nothing. And saying that legal actions don't hurt company relations is just plain retarded.

>>380523061
It's illegal when you don't OWN it.
You know things like private property, intellectual property.
BTW if you don't have the capital just gtfo, it's between Intel and Microsoft.

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>put hardware backdoors in your CPUs for years
>gouge customers since you're dominating the market
>fuck up your (new) next sockets because a little competition is building
>try to b& MS from emulating their own shit

>>380527857
>Wouldn't it be fairly easy
Retard

>>380527857
Yes if the devs are on board and the source code is still available.
Intel's nightmare is Microsoft building an x86 emulator into UWP and the reason everyone needs Intel chips for Windows drying up over night.

Its already getting really hard for them to gouge OEMs when AMD is showing off a true 4 core / 8 thread x86 SOC with actually decent graphics hardware for half what Intel wants for a neutered dual core mobile chip which still needs discrete graphics to be any good.

>>380518537
I'm pretty sure this is more about MS and Qualcomm trying to get x86 versions of Windows running on ARM chips, nothing to do with Xbox emulation.

>/v/: corporate litigation specialists

>>380527375
They closed due to the court costs
I don't think Microsoft will have any problem with that

My cousin works at Intel and I haven't heard about this.

Then again, I haven't talked with him in a while and have hardly talked about this work.

>>380529002
Retard

They don't have a case. The x86 instruction set is essentially an API, which you can't stop someone from using. Because APIs (and the x86 instruction set for that matter) are provided specifically so that things can be made to work together. Courts have ruled that APIs, if published, cannot be strictly licensed. The hardware and implementation is patented, but the API is not strictly licensed. Hell, I know some x86 code and Intel cannot stop me from using them to program however I want.

>>380529206
Retard

>>380529003
Yep, that's it exactly. If Windows gets off x86 Intel is in deep shit.

>>380524658
Are you retarded? Bleem beat Sony in court. The only reason they went bankrupt is because Sony could afford to constantly move and delay hearings and forced them out of the market by telling stores to stop selling bleem or they'd stop shipping them Playstations.

Hope microsoft wins, I wanna play counter strike again. THE GOOD VERSION. THE CONSOLE VERSION

>>380529206
Oracle has been trying to make the case that APIs can be protected for years now in a case rumored to be backed by Microsoft since it would cripple their main rivals as well as make software to migrate away from Windows much more legally questionable.

It will be funny if that bites them on the ass now in their quest to get access to cheaper and more power efficient hardware that's basically required now for consumer devices.

I outlined a potential avenue for attack for Intel back in >>380525770
Its entirely possible Intel has written their own emulator and gotten software patents on it that they can use against anyone else writing a modern x86 (really AMD64) emulator.

>>380520737
It's 3d mahjongg

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>>380529497
I bet you also felt this was definitive

>>380529497
>counter strike on console
The fuck are you on about retard?

Microsoft I think has more patents than any other company. Intel should be careful.

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>Jet Set Radio Future NEVER EVER

Intel over there playing chess while Xbox niggas playing checkers.

>>380519713
So what? Hardware emulation has been found to be legal with or without propiriatary hardware.

>>380522318
this is what intel really cares about. if they lose the laptop business they're in trouble

What is even worth emulating for the original Xbox?

Halo CE and 2 are great but will we be able to play them online?

Morrowind is great but its better on PC.

Kotor 1 and 2 are great but same as Morrowind?

Splinter Cell games were regarded as better on Xbox but they aren't exclusives

Only thing I can really think of is Ninja Gaiden Black and other fringe exclusives like Otogi.

>>380531906
Its like this - there's probably only one good path way for emulating certain features of modern AMD64 hardware on ARM. Intel is a big enough company they can have their own internal emulator development team working on that problem, and there are actually a lot of legitimate reasons why they'd want to produce that kind of thing.

Now the underhanded thing they can do is patent that one fast code path. Anybody else who wants to make a performant emulator would need to use it but Intel holds the patent. Its unlikely that they'd enforce it against free software projects, but Apple of Microsoft would get the full force of the patent arsenal against them as soon as they try to make the jump and take their legacy software with them.

If you want another example of this, Adobe owns a number of patents on mathmatical formulas that represent the only efficient ways to perform certain transformations that have kept other art programs from being competitive for decades and are only now starting to expire.

>>380518537
>x86 programs on x86 hardware
>CPU emulation
you seem like a stupid person

>>380518537

just leak the geforce docs microsoft

>>380532461
This isn't about the original Xbox, or even the current Xbox. This is all about Microsoft desperately needing to be able to compete against cheap ARM/Linux devices and knowing that the only way to do that would be to let people have access to all their old win32 stuff (even if it would have to be from the Windows Store and wrapped up with UWP).

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>>380532461
It depends how it works. If it's a blanket emulator and a LOT of titles just work then obscure stuff could just be put in and played again.

But it probably won't. I imagine "high profile" titles will be selected ala 360 on the Xbox One.

Pandora Tomorrow and Chaos Theory's multiplayer were excellent but without patches I don't know how OG Xboxes can even LAN with the new Xbox One as without XBL you can't get the patches or DLC.

This issue applies to other titles like MechAssault, Halo 2, TimeSplitters...

As you said, offline titles like NGB and Otogi would be cool. Legacy of Kain: Defiance. Def Jam: Fight for New York would also be fine without XBL.

Steel Battalion probably impossible without that controller.

>>380518537

so why could they emulate it on Xbox360?

>>380518537
Emulation is legal. They can't legally prevent it.

>>380533340
That wasn't emulation. Those games were recompiled. When you put the disk in the system it automatically downloaded updated executables.

>>380530830
counter strike on og xbox was a wonderful thing and it had bank the best map ever

Is Nvidia related to Intel? Should I switch to AMD?

>>380533410
gee its not like people have been pointing out profiting and selling emulation on the other hand is or anything for 2 fucking hours already

The main issue is that any x86 instructions that aren't out of parent via processor coming out onto the market are illegal to emulate on way or another. So the best you can do legally is to emulate an x86 processor made in 1992 or earlier. That is basically missing 25 years of improvements and essentially useless for any non legacy use.

So not only did they completely ruin the PC game show, but they also ruin the best thing that they announced at the Microsoft showcase? Welp AMD is gonna be my next cpu.

>>380518537
Still butt hurt

>>380532461
Halo CE didn't have online play. The PC version is missing effects and the remaster has some weird graphical choices. So it would be nice

Also, Xbox games are getting a resolution boost. I know Morrowind has an unlocked framerate because it jumps to 60 if you look at the ground or inside shops. So high res Morrowind at 60fps with actual controller support (and the longass loads should be gone too) is nice even if the PC version is still technically better. I always preferred the larger font in the Xbox UI and menus compared to the PC version (and no mod I've used ever compared).

NG Black and most of the Sega titles are exclusive to the platform so it would be nice to play them

>>380533929
Completely separate companies. Nvidia used to make chipsets for Intel boards but Intel canned it, also Intel refuses to license x86 to Nvidia which is why they're so focused on the Tegra and ARM. I don't know why /g/ and /v/ tend to lump the two companies together, Nvidia is gunning for Intel almost as hard as AMD.

>>380534027
>any x86 instructions

rename the instruction in EXE file, but use original logic

I was actually excited to see the duke, but it looks like microsoft is only going to make a handful and charge stupid prices for them.

Anyone have experience with the usb converters for the originals? Won't be able to use it on the bone but better than nothing.

>>380534641
>Halo CE didn't have online play.
Yes, it did.

>>380535740
>>Anyone have experience with the usb converters for the originals?
The controllers are literally just USB with an additional wire for a composite sync lightgun signal.

>>380533885
>counter strike on console
Yeah that was complete shit

>>380533023
>>380533023
>>380533023
Have them unfortunately stolen by alt-right Russian hackers

>>380536306
I know that, I'm just wondering if it's worth trying to track down an adapter for the break away, or wire one up myself.

>>380536559
You can get adapters for like 2 bucks, just buy some.

OG xbox already had an emulator on the 360.
this isn't about xbox, this is intel flipping out over MS adding OS support for ARM devices. Basically phones, but that could expand to anything once the support is there. There's a ton of competition there, and that's why intel is so scared.

>>380521646
Ryzen can't save their rep and will never lure Intel users to the red side. The only people that continually support AMD are the same people that only make 2k a month.

>>380519297
Like we give a shit if you console peasants can't play halo 2.

>>380537000
The Ryzen+Vega SOC hardware is going to be very tempting for OEMs and will open up devices/price points that were never possible for general market PCs before.

>>380534641
>and the remaster has some weird graphical choices.

The MCC version of the remaster fixes most of the missing effects in classic mode

>>380537000
>hurr if you don't get Intel ur poor xd
Intel doesn't even need a marketing team with free shills this fierce.

>>380537767
And has 60fps animations.
You have to cheat to kind of get that on PC

>>380531626
But anon it's on steam

>>380538349
Incorrect.

>>380533885
mah nigga, Bank best map

>>380537446
But there is currently no Xbox emulator on PC either.

>>380538349
Jet Set Radio Future is the sequel to Jet Set Radio

>>380538349
I've heard this being said dozens of times
Do people just not know about JSRF or is it bait?

>>380539206
It probably confuses people that there's no "2" stamped on it

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> post yfw you're still mad that faggot erased an alpha og xbox kit with source code

we could be having 4K emulation on pc right now

>>380540086
>could be playing Ninja Gaiden or Ninja Gaiden Black as well as DoAX

kill me pete

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>>380540086
>>380539095
The work continues

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>there are already UWP emulators working on the Xbox one
>Dev mode side loading but there nonetheless
>History has shown emulation is fine but piracy is not
>Intel created the CPU for the Xbox
>Ms can relicense usage of this shit and implement it as they want
Or
>create a wrapper for the game to emulate it in an environment with appropriate interpreters of the protected instructions and convert it to native xbone code since that's how Sony handles PS1/2/P titles on ps3 and ps4

You niggers don't even know how to do this right. It's not a matter of Intel making them stop it's a matter of how to let Intel have their way and still do what you want. And we most certainly can have into throw a shit fit and still get Xbox emulation.

Now on the other hand that also means we might have another 360 support kind of deal, except in the way it's approached. They ported the whole system and data on the 360 to try emulating most titles. This is not a wrapper to run native code through interpretation but instead a more direct way that will lead to issues (like the jsrf slowdown. It works but God forbid you go to populated spots)

My bet is on Ms going the Sony route and potentially doing it better since the ps2 wrapper they have is fucking shit and that's only due to ps2 programming taking so many weird shortcuts workarounds and tuning.


tl;dr
Ms can out Jew Intel with one move and there's nothing they can do about it.

Intel have absolutely 0 influence over MS. Intel needs MS, MS doesn't need Intel. MS can literally bankrupt Intel in a day if they wanted to.

>>380518537
>MS buys AMD out of spite
>Pumps billions into RND
>Makes Intel irellevant

>>380540272
i bet it's specifically engineered to play this one game.

>>380519536
>Haven't there been like a million emulation lawsuits in history and every single time the judge tells the plaintiff "fuck off retard"?

This.

It is corporation blackmail, at best.

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>>380519536
>>380542886
its not the emulation of the game, its the emulation of the x86 architecture...which is also fine unless...you charge money for it. otherwise why not just "emulate windows media player" and sell people complete copies of windows as your own to "emulated" windows media player

>>380544598
You can create a Windows Media Player emulator, why not?

As long as it doesn't use the original code and art and stuff, it is ok.

But emulation is more about hardware.

They can emulate it without a problem.

Isn't a Virtual Machine all about that?

>>380518537
lol i knew it

just more lies from microshit if they do it intel is going to kill them in court

just more proof of why the xbone is a pile of crap

Yeah and Microsoft could kill Intel's whole business by barring Intel processors from running on Windows. Intel isn't going to be that much of a faggot to Microsoft.

>>380545119
....and you cant sell it. seriously, or china would make iphone clones, "emulate" the notes app and just coincidently emulate the entire iphone OS

xbox is shit :v
ps4 is for the winners papu :v

>>380545984
China does make iPhone clones.

>>380546130
>muh 80 weeb friendly exclusives that nobody will play
I think I'll stick with the console with the actual multiplayer network so I can play with my actual friends, thank you.

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>>380518637
This is about ARM emulating x86, retard. Not x86-64 emulating x86.

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3200175/microsoft-windows/intel-and-microsoft-qualcomm-are-at-odds-over-windows-10-arm-emulation-move.html

>>380546174
over there, yes, because theres no copyright law. here, no

>>380518537
>>380518637
This is about emulating ARM on x86, you clickbait shithead.

>>380545984
You can emulate, but not break trademarks, it is different. There is not trademark regarding X86 architecture.

>>380547095
>ARM on x86
Otherway around, whatever.
>>380519536
You need to implement the instruction sets, which are patented.

>>380547235
okay, its still breaking a trademark

O Y V E Y
Y

V
E
Y

>>380518537

With Jews, you lose.

Poor Microsoft.

This generation is just one long string of "when it rains, it pours".

>>380532574
All voided since emulation is legal.

>Intel sues Microsoft
>Microsoft

Kek, Intel gonna get rekt by Microsoft's army of Jewish Lawyers

>>380533664
But you don't need a disc to get games from the BC catalog.

>>380518537
>Intel will sue Microsoft to prevent Xbox emulation

No they won't you moronic fucktard.