Why are Western devs so fixated on cinematic experiences and

>>379878573
pretentiousness. it's not enough to have m rated videogames anymore, people now want to 'advance the medium' with so called mature stories with grounded settings and realistic human characters.

>>379878573
Because western devs are so concerned with games being art and to them art means "deep" stories.

Even fucking sports games are doing it now.

>>379878573

This game did things well but the story was fucking highly overrated and only manbabies were emotionally drawn in.

>>379878573
Because The Last of Us worked, and they're trying to cash in on it.

I liked TLoU but shit like Tomb Raider or God of War being cinematic turns me off so much. I don't want every game to be like this, especially when most have incompetent writers and animators.

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>>379878573
The industry is swamped with film school drop outs, Hollywood rejects and people who consider being forced to walk at a snails pace down dressed up hallways while characters spout boring and often poorly written dialogue at each other to be a compelling gameplay experience.

>Ever since [Insert very successful game here] got popular people have tried to copy it

This has literally always happened

When Mario 64 happened everyone tried to copy it

When GTA III happened everyone tried to copy it

When COD happened everyone tried to copy it

There are plenty of other examples, stop being being new

>>379879373
This. There are B movies that have a better plot and characters, but since game reviewers are all limp wristed pussies, they eat that shit up.

Because of "muh art"

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>>379878573
>game sells a shitton
>clearly huge market for the genre
>devs need to make money to make more games
>choose the most efficient path to keeping doors of the company open
really percolates the pecans

>>379879579
>better characters
I agree about the story, it was a conglomeration of cliches (done right, but still cliches).
You're a contrarian about the characters, they're great, one of the better examples in games.
If I were to guess, you mostly play japanese games, right?

>>379879514
But hose copies still tried to be games. These are more movies than games and people can't get enough. Everyone shit on clones from before, but the clones of story driven games get 10/10s because muh feels.

Because westerners think video games need to be respected as art or something.

>>379879864
I beat the last of us and the characters are no better than anything you see in summer blockbusters and comic book movies.

>>379879840
If that were the case, then why even make console games at all? The profit is in mobile.

>>379880105
They are, and you are, like I said, a contrarian, or you are deeply biased against it.

They are great. One of the few things about the game that are actually, genuinely great.

>>379878573
>Why are Western devs so fixated on cinematic experiences and muh feels?
Is this a joke? Because last time I've checked Japan made shit like Final Fantasy and fucking Persona, right? Even the fucking Nier is not exactly lacking exposition and barely interactive spectacle.

I get that people are frustrated with games like TLOU but pretending like Japan does not do the same shit is fucking unbelivable. Hell, the thing that actually caught my attention about Japanese gaming many years ago is how much more they fixate on spectacle and social or personality-focused storytelling. West has since then caught up with them, but pretending like Japan focuses purely on minimalist gameplay is a joke.

Normies buy games and play them for 45 to an hour of gameplay. so they make it like a netflix show all cinematic with little to no gameplay and press button to win mechanics. shit sells and you fuckers keep buying it.

>>379878573
because the jews who own western companies only hire stupid people that can only write emotional/cinematic shit

>>379880831
Yeah, but this is all western devs make now. Like someone's else said, even sports games are doing it.

TLOU may have had good writing, but I couldn't be assed to enjoy yet another zombie apocalypse game, the gameplay was nothing special either.

>>379880329
>They are great. One of the few things about the game that are actually, genuinely great.
Not him, but they aren't.
They aren't TERRIBLE, which in game industry makes them high above average, but they sure as fuck aren't amazing or great. They are incredibly average. Boiler-plate. You see the equivalent in just about every Holywood movie that is not directed by Michael Bay. All qualities they have come from Hollywood level professionality of the writers, who have the basic craft of writing down properly. There is absolutely nothing remarkable about them.

>>379880201
>Jews
>Pushing Islam
That is one of the most retardet things i read today

>>379878573
Because they can and it works.. I don't mind metal gear because it's so video gamey in every aspect but TLOU was like I was watching the walking dead. It was good just not what I really care for out of a video game. So even though it was good and I enjoyed it, it just isn't memorable to me.

Yea and Persona 5, with around 150 hours of cutscenes isn't a "cinematic" game?

But last of us, a game with 2 hours of cutscenes, is?

Explain this weebtards

>>379881257
You end up fighting more normal humans than infected by the end. I would've preferred it to be more zombie survival cause clickers and bloaters are the only real threats.

Reminder that tlou is the citizen Kane of gaming.

>>379881257
Name one other high budget singleplayer focused survival game with no regenerative health and limited ammo
And no, open world garbage doesn't count

>>379881675
Persona also has more gameplay.

>>379881197
>Yeah, but this is all western devs make now.
Uh, no? I mean you are judging about EA, which has been doing this for about a decade, so a little late to the party but we just got games like fucking Prey, Shadow Warrior 2, Doom, Alien Isolation, Surge, Hollow Knight, Everspace, Risk of Rain, Rainworld, Stellaris... what the fuck are you talking about?
This is complete bullshit and you know it. You see what you fucking want to see and sometimes, it does get completely fucking retarded.

I mean seriously: Yakuza? Persona? FF? Fucking Neptunia and various Atelier games?

Both sides are equally as guilty of this shit and if you deny that, you are delusional.

>>379878573
I was watching someone else play this the other day, and I realized how great it is. Take the following clip for example. Notice how effective the subtle camera angles are. When Sarah worries about the camera, notice how the camera shifts up to look at the clock, and then back to them, and then as Sarah leans to get her present, the camera follows her while still maintaining that low personal angle. That's film quality stuff, and pretty much no other dev puts as much thought into their presentation. You guys bemoan the cinematic quality, but the truth is, lots of other devs can't even produce the same quality as ND does.

https://youtu.be/lZvnK6jiC9g

>>379881908
It's far far more exposition heavy, mechanically it has very little depth, majority of the time is actually focused on exposition or social "interaction" that is just a different way of saying basic highschool relationship drama. It's basically an anime with occasional spread sheet optimization and a token combat segment.

Which don't get me wrong: that is not a bad thing. It's fine. Just don't fucking pretend like there is a some major formal difference, and like Japs are totally not guilty of the same approach to major release titles.

>>379880105
They are similar approach but different takes on characters like the ones in Children Of Men. Not the most original, but still really well done. Unlike summer blockbusters or 99% of games, there's an actual obvious character progression (much better than the garbage that gets its dick sucked here too like Persona.) Joel, Ellie, Bill, and those black guys all have subtly done character progressions that isn't typical at all of a video game.

Not to mention how well the game pulls off various elements of its story like the entirety of winter (with no explanation you're playing as Ellie having to hunt faun, how the entire act slowly reveals the true intentions of the cannibals starting with a segment where you help them, the split between the Joel/Ellie sections in the later part and how wildly different their sections play, etc.)

It's worth noting that like in movies/books/etc., HOW its done is more important than WHAT is done.
>>379878573
It's the one game that emphasizes somewhat of a cinematic experience without stuff like Uncharted or Call Of Duty or Half Life 2's crazier parts where the player's not very much in control of the cinematic bits. People here like to call TLOU a non-game, but you do almost everything in-game, a lot of the storybeats are done in game, its gameplay melds perfectly with its story. Not to mention that the game has far more tactical mechanical depth to it than many games this place dickrides as well (particularly the JRPGs.)

>>379878573
libfags have memed certain developers into thinking that non-gamers are people that you should be marketing your games towards

>>379882019
This
Fuck weebs, they're so fucking delusional and don't even seem to want to admit that Japs do this shit too
Literally, nobody but them cares about this subject, and they only do it to shit on the "west"

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>>379878573
Because TLoU was a good movie game and deserves the success and praise it gets.

The reveal trailer for the sequel was amazing. I'm so hyped for it.

>>379881908
Nice delusion, it's a fucking anime with some basic turn based gameplay

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>>379878573
japanese make actual book like stories, western devs make movies.
BIG difference bro.
plus a lot of non cliche stuff comes from these games.

japs make really good action games like dark souls and such and fighting games.

wait.. what the fuck do western devs even do?

>>379882402
People just shit on the last of us because it's a praised PS4 only game
They don't care if it's a well crafted game they just want to shit on it

>>379882658
Japs suck at shooters and anything FPS.

>>379878573
Because AAA western developers make games to pander to SJWs and minority groups that don't usually play their games. This is why Andromeda has an in-your-face tranny among other games.

>>379882658
epic first person/third person shooters/survival zombie games

ocassionally a really fun platformer/rts

>>379882658
>>379881675

Oh sorry meant it for >>379880831
>>379881675


First of all Jrpgs come from dnd which is mostly story in word form. japanese took it in a different direction than western devs with more WORDS
>>379882874
Oh forgot about those sorry.


The only man who somewhat makes story rpgs with more of a "book" like form actual is todd howard no matter what you say.
Japanese actually love him and his games believe it or not.

>>379880831
The difference is that you don't have a bunch of pretentious twats coming out of the woodworks to tell you how Persona is the most deep cinematic experiences of our generation. Most of the games you listed don't ever try to take themselves seriously and make up for that even more by having genuinely fun and engaging gameplay. you know, the thing that youre expected to get out of a fucking video game. The last of us is in complete contrast to that. It's an average game that pretentionfags wont shut up about

>>379882990
But it's okay when Poison?

>>379882990
The question was

>Why are Western devs so fixated on cinematic experiences and muh feels?

And that's your answer?

>>379878573
Who is trying to copy it?
>inb4 god of war

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I just want games to be goofy, fun and intense with difficulty like the good old 6th and early 7th gen days. The super serious realistic human like settings turn me off. Why does every modern western protagonist have to be morally ambiguous for a story narrative.

>>379882114
Actually, that is pretty awful and one of the weakest moments of the game. It has zero subtletly, it's insanely predictable, clichéd as fuck and the child speaks that trademark american comedy/drama style where everything has to be a sacrastic quip. It's obvious that who ever made it has watched a lot of TV and never spent time around real children.

>>379882402
>They are similar approach but different takes on characters like the ones in Children Of Men.
Oh dear god FUCK YOU. Comparing this tripe to Children of Man is actually really fucking insulting.

>>379882658
>japanese make actual book like stories,
Japanese do manga-like stories, and that is not exactly a positive thing. Most Japanese production = cheap manga level. Few rare decent Japanese storytelling: ALL INSANELY OBSESSED WITH CINEMA. Seriously, Kojima, Silent Hill, Suda51: all that is like obsessively "I watch SOOOO MUCH movies!" style. It's not bad, but again: pretending that this is something else is pathetic.

Meanwhile, in the west you have multiple schools. The mostly american block-buster school (Rockstar, Remedy, Naughty-Dog) that do their obsessively cinematic stuff much like their Japanese counterparts do. Then you have the Witcher, Icepick Lodge, Obsidian school that actually really takes inspiration in literature much more than cinema, which heavy emphasis on extensive dialogues, "tell don't show" style.

The only actual games with stories that ACTUALLY can't be compared to classic literature have been done by Icepick Lodge, a Russian studio though.

>>379883251
Poison isn't the same as a person in Andromeda immediately telling all about how strong and oppressed they are for being trans after your very first dialogue option with them.

>>379882874
Breakdown was good and isn't Kill Switch isn't japanese aswell?

>>379883195
>Book-like and movie-like

Are you fucking retarded?
So Persona, a game that has literal cutscenes and actors for them, isn't movie-like?
It's book like because it's long?
Because we call TV shows that are long "book-like" right?
These jumps in logic sure are impressive

>>379882658
>wait.. what the fuck do western devs even do?
See >>379882019
Actually much more wide variety of games: from complex strategies past creative sandboxes like Factorio and Kerbal to immersive sims like Prey past solid pure action titles like Doom and Surge past strongly narratively focused games like The Witcher. That said, west is simple BIGGER (as in, it's just a lot more studios) so the variety can be partially explanined by that.

Gameplay can't get better already and most games today feel samey so better focus on other things to give identity to your games

>Western

>>379882402
Well said dude. I'm always surprised how many people decided to turn off their brains when they played this game.

It may have the least ludonarrative dissonance out of almost any game ever made. Stuff like the segments you play as Ellie and learn that others see Joel as a madman, followed by the part where you control Joel again and watch the cannibals run for the hills when you start shooting are amazing.

>>379883247
It's a fantastic game and a great story
Of course, people will praise something that's good and it's not like you can't avoid these fucking people
What a load of shit

>>379883691
>immersive sims like Prey
This is definitely the overrated game of the month.

>>379882874
>muh shoot game

Don't worry you'll get your next cod soon enough

>>379883247
Well japanese are more reserved, they don't brag. It's a culture thing.
Notice how kojima got Americanized and got fucked over from it?
>>379883392
You are really biased and make no sense with japanese stuff. I am not saying western devs don't make good games. I love rts and some western rpgs.
>>379883626
What I mean is jap games are heavy literature based. western devs go as far as not use any words and use movie for story telling.

>>379883857
Holy shit do you sound like a gigantic fucking weeb right now.

>>379883392
>Actually, that is pretty awful and one of the weakest moments of the game. It has zero subtlety, it's insanely predictable, clichéd as fuck and the child speaks that trademark american comedy/drama style where everything has to be a sacrastic quip. It's obvious that who ever made it has watched a lot of TV and never spent time around real children.

I'm sure you would have done a much better job dumbass
There is subtlety in the scene, you're just doing the "shit on a popular thing" thing

>>379878573
>I swear all Western games are trying to copy it.

no shit. Companies copy successful things

>>379883857
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight ok weeb

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>>379883251
Poison isn't even a trap you stupid trap faggots. Capcom only changed the dialogue in NA release because sjws back in 90s would complain of men beating up girls in media. There is no way in hell does poison even look like a trap to begin and shitty pc mods don't count m8.

god fuck the last of us so hard. what a pretentious piece of shit “game“.

>>379883691
those are mostly all shooters and rts games.

The Witcher has respect because it is immersive in its content unlike most western games. well its a rpg so it should be like that. rpg's were ALL stories to begin with with dnd. I'm not a fucking weeb because the west INVENTED rpg's.
>>379884018
Am I actually wrong though? I'm not saying the movie way is bad the the west uses mostly now I watch movies from all eras actually.
It's just a different idea.

>>379883626
>So Persona, a game that has literal cutscenes and actors for them, isn't movie-like?

You say this as if every videogame in the past several decades haven't had cutscenes where paid actors did audio work. Story doesn't have to equal wannabe films

>>379883247
>The difference is that you don't have a bunch of pretentious twats coming out of the woodworks to tell you how Persona is the most deep cinematic experiences of our generation.
Ahahahahahaha ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?!
So first of all: your issue is with people, not with the game then. Second of all: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH do you have ANY FUCKING CLUE how obnoxious, pretentious and annoying the Persona 5 cunts on this board have been over the last few weeks?

I mean shit: whatever. All big high profile releases produce these cunts but my god you not fucking being aware of how obnoxious Presonafags are about their game is just pathetic. Get some fucking self-awareness, please.
>>379883853
It's actually easily the most underrated game of the past few years. Ironically considering the theme of it's thread, the only thing it does really poorly is... story. But sure. West is all about stories and Weeboos are the only ones who appreciate good gameplay, sure!

This is the problem. Your delusions are. I don't give a fuck if you play western or eastern, but Jesus STOP. LYING. AND DELUDING yourself. It's fucking unhealthy. Get a fucking grip already.

>>379883857
>You are really biased and make no sense with japanese stuff.
I'm really, REALLY NOT. Unlike you, I don't care in the slightest if a game is western or eastern. To me the whole animosity and differenciation between them is completely artificial and pathetic. I don't consider Japanese games in any way better or worse then western. The only biased person here are you. There is no actual evaluative comparison there, yet you see it because you project your own bias there.

>>379884189
>I'm sure you would have done a much better job dumbass
Maybe I would, maybe I would not, it does not matter. You don't have to be a hen to tell if an egg is rotten.
And I do know my stuff when it comes to writing, actually.

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>>379884752
>this post
anon are you okay

>>379884614
>those are mostly all shooters and rts games.
Nope, not really. The fuck is wrong with you? Why do you talk about games you clearly know fuck all about? Jesus. Just have some dignity. Why is it so hard for you people to not be absolute retards?

>>379883626
Persona 5 is a literal comic.

>>379884018
>Here's why youre wrong about the thing, explained in a very casual and open manner
>HA NO FUCK U AD HOMINEM LOL

westfags, everytime

>>379884392
just point them to the official figures, none have a bulge and the single one with detachables has a fucking vagina

all official capcom merch, capcom girls series in particular taken from original designs

>The only biased person here are you.

There is biased and then there are facts and answers.

The west uses movies far more in there games to tell stories nowdays. most normal gamers are not gonna play games like persona, its mostly fucking reading.

>>379884614
You're a gigantic fuckig weeb. You're seriously saying reading pages of dialogues is better than a cutscene?

>>379885134
No, I'm saying they are two different subjects completely. To begin with movies use a fucking script.

>>379881675
I like TLOU and Persona 5. Stop being a retard.

>>379884392
If you can pretend that Poison doesn't have a dick despite what the official company says, then just pretend the tranny from mass effect doesn't have a dick either.

Persona is literally an anime with gameplay taking a backseat for "character interaction", "character development", and "story progression", yet /v/ covers it with jizz.

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>>379884752
Why are you using all caps so much. Are you seriously getting this worked up about this

>>379885339
And Japanese games don't? Like you seriously think all that shit is adlibbed on the fly? Do you seriously think they're making the game and streaming it to you as you're playing it? EVERY FUCKING GAME WITH A STORY HAS A SCRIPT!!

>>379883392
The comparison works imo since both works are driven by subtle character progression which themselves are driven by film/game mechanics respectively. Not to mention their progression routes themselves are very similar with Theo/Joel trying to come to terms with their own personal demons from the past while protecting the equivalent of humanity's last hope and how that hope changes them.

>>379878573

go pc if you want to play games with actual gameplay.

>>379881675
persona is a 100 hour game and compared to its movies, the dialogue is redic.

>>379884752
For a guy who says he knows stuff about writing, you certainly didn't seem to take note that Joel's daughter was quipping because of the writer's attempt to create a connection between the player and the character for the twenty minutes of screentime she has before she dies.

There's really not much you can work with in 20 minutes and he tried to squeeze all he could out of it. If he succeeded or not is irrelevant, however, as the opening is not a moment designed to shock the player (no matter how many people say they cried there), but to explain Joel's behavior in the later hours of the game.

>>379885671
ahh yes, minecraft and undertale

consoles btfo for eternity lmao

>>379885671
More like go do math if all you want is a serious of solvable functions. Why not just take up coding and get the satisfaction of watching a program run flawlessly after working on it?

>>379885569
I think you are completely changing the subject..

Thats what I loved so much about Bloodborne. You just get thrown into the world and explore shit by yourself. When normie games do their exposition thing I get immediately bored because the dialogue sucks so horribly. Either hire good writers or focus on gameplay like from software

>>379885749

this tells me you dont play pc

>>379885816
Did you not just say western games were movielike because they use a script?

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>this thread
>blah blah blah fucking weeb blah blah weeb this weeb that blah blah if you don't like my walking sims you're a weeb
This thread smells of Reddit.

>>379885783

you are mistaking programing with gaming.

>>379885954
The dialogue in From games are pretentious as shit. Fancy language does not mean good dialogue.

>>379885085
>The west uses movies far more in there games to tell stories nowdays.
First of all: "Nowdays". No, it has been like this since Max Payne. And second of all: both sides are equally as guilty of this. And both sides also produce titles that don't fall into these trappings - and sadly, games on both sides that avoid this are often underappreciated.

So here is a suggestion: what if instead of being insecure cunt that literally lies - to himself and others just to perserve completely ill-gained sense of superiority as a product of unhealthy fixation on arbitrary geographical origin of some game, you went and start making threads about those good games - Japanese or Wester, that is up to - that aren't getting the attention they deserve?

>>379885567
Why does it bother you?

>>379885593
>The comparison works imo since both works are driven by subtle character progression
You have no idea how much I want to kill you right now. May god you have no idea how insulting this is to anyone who knows basic narratology. I want to strangle you. Now you are ACTUALLY making me angry, I think I'll have to back out of this discussion. I don't think I could go through this shit without really actually getting worked up.
Take it as a win if you must, I don't have the actual nerve to deal with this shit.

>>379885738
>Joel's daughter was quipping because of the writer's attempt to create a connection between the player
Dude, I did take a not of it. In fact, it's IMPOSSIBLE not to be PAINFULLY AWARE of that. That is precisely my problem here: just how cheap, predictable and utterly lacking in subtlety or actual human observation is this shit.

>There's really not much you can work with in 20 minutes and he tried to squeeze all he could out of it.
First of all, there is a lot to work with in 20 minutes. Second of all: if you can't do it without it being cringeworthy, maybe you should change your script from the absolute roots.

You have to be completely retarded or a kid who doesn't read to not understand that books and literature has far much more content than a movie.

Movies are a different area of entertainment but holy shit go watch a 2 hour movie then go read a fucking book, its common fucking sense.

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>>379878573
>tfw a weeb game with a budget of 10 packs of instant noodles are a better feels simulator than a western AAA game

>>379878573
>Ever since tlou

t. underage fagit

game devs have been trying to do it since the beginning, that's why stories were introduced you fucktard, it's just now that they are getting it almost right

>>379885349
>tfw when you realize didn't pay or play shitty microtransactions infested garbage game for the shitty game to begin with.

Feels good :) and also have a nice day crapcom shill.

>>379886040
reddit loves anime though

>>379886312
Judging from the amount of people who felt something from Sarah's death, I'd say it was pretty well done.

>>379886124
>still hasn't realized that PC exclusives like Dwarf Fortress, Path Of Exile, and Paradox games in general are nothing but a series of math problems to compute, not actual VIDEO GAMES
They aren't called games, they aren't called video, they are called video games. Most japshit and PC exclusives often tend to be too much video not enough game or too much game not enough video. Stuff that doesn't optimize the advantages of the medium is objectively inferior.

>>379884360
>Riiiiiiiiiiiiight

>>>/reddit/

>>379884392
>>379885073

>not knowing at there are multiple debatably canon Final Fight timelines, in one of them Poison has a pussy and in another she has a bepis

It's just like Nier: Replicant/Gestalt.

>>379878991
>people now want to 'advance the medium' with so called mature stories with grounded settings and realistic human characters.
Why is this a bad thing?

>>379886530
r/gaming and most other video game subreddits only talk about AAA western games and throws the word weeb around like it's nothing. It's the exact opposite extreme of 4chan

>>379886449
You can say the same for books, movies cost far too much to compete.

>>379886565
>I'd say it was pretty well done.
I'd say that by that judgement, Twilight must be a masterpiece of literature.

>>379886530
>reddit loves anime though

he said, on 4chan, a site created by a weeb who was obsessed with anime

>>379886312
I may be experiencing second hand embarrassment

>>379886567

i havent played anny of them, nor minecraft. there is so much more and all i can say is my ps4 is taking dust after completing bloodbourne. do some research and maybe a new world opens up to you.

>>379879070
>deep" stories.
>>379878991
>advance the medium' with so called mature stories with grounded settings and realistic human characters.

What's wrong with that? Honest answers please.

>>379886773
Too bad TLoU was both critically and financially acclaimed. That means people who actually knows what constitutes a good video game liked it.

What the fuck does poison have to do with this thread, not like I mind it.

>>379886725
>throws the word weeb around like it's nothing

You mean like in this thread? And pretty much every thread discussing Nip games that aren't Souls or Nintendo?

>>379886312
If you're so angry, why not prove me wrong? Oh wait, you can't. You know I am right, but are trying to straw man a point I was never trying to make. Stay BTFO, loser!

>>379886773
Twilight was wish fulfillment, The Last of Us was not.

>>379887000
That only supports the thesis that /v/ is full of Redditors now. Which, it is.

>>379886565
Yeah people who are normal people who can't go and dig deep into more advanced content. those same people don't have time even for a 30 hour game. They ACTUALLY want 6-10 hour games.

>>379886868
Oh yeah, so many cheap indie games that lack many game mechanics due to being shoddily made!

>>379886158
there isnt much dialogue at all. Its just random bits and pieces. Which is fine, since the gameplay is more important. And thats not fancy language

>>379885749
How does it feel minecraft has more content then most western games.

>>379887267
You ever thought that maybe people don't like longass games because they are usually such a waste of time to play? I'd rather go through a more engaging five hour play through of Bayonetta or a twenty hour play through of TLOU than a brain dead 120 hour long play through of a Persona game. Length doesn't matter, being engaging does.

>>379886158
Who the fuck said from games even have dialogue, its pure immersion.

>>379887734
>thinks quantity is more important than quality
How am I not surprised

>>379887807
No.

>>379878573
How is The Last of Us even a feels game? The two pivotal characters survive in the end, and the main character massacres a hospital and shoots an unarmed woman to save his surrogate daughter.

If anything people seemed to be feeling more outrage at Joel's behavior than anything else.

>>379878573
Gameplay is harder to do right.

>>379887948
From games are the opposite of immersion in terms of game world because the players too focused on the gamey side of things. Not to mention that I can't call games with content like the second half of Dark Souls, DS2's hitboxes, Bloodborne Chalice dungeons, etc. as good video games.

>>379886715
For any other medius these things would be absolutely fine.
Videogames however don´t just need characters, setting and atmosphere to be good but also gameplay.

Even If everything is grounded, serious and appealing to an adult Audience you won´t be able to actually go beyond cover based shooting and Quick time events.

If they want to make an animated movie or series why not do just that?

>>379878573
What's the problem with having good story, characters and cinematic feel in video game? Outside of /v/ it's nothing but advantage.

>>379886940
>Too bad TLoU was both critically and financially acclaimed.
Yes, that is actually kinda bad. Games have extremely low critical standards, unfortunately. Financial acclaim again is an extremely wonky argument, considering the financial success of tripe like Hunger Games (which also actually won a fuckton of awards, because YA literature has equally low standards) or Fifty Shades of Grey.
OK: I'm stretching it: TLOU is not nearly as bad as Fifty Shades of Grey of course. It's more on a Last of Us level. Actually, it is basically last of us.

>>379887083
This is really, really pathetic attempt for baiting. It's so miserable I feel sorry for you, so here is your reply.
You need it more than I do.

>>379887807
Are you saying a fucking book because its a bit longer to get through is a waste of time.
Holy shit.

>>379887298

keep denying, i dont have a problem with that, im just saying i game 99 percent on pc and im still waiting for that console exclusive i want to play since 2015.

>>379888325
Yeah I feel the opposite about how miyazaki really makes his world shine compared to the copies so far that western devs tried to do, plus they are better than most games that come out these days quality wise.

>>379888329
But TLOU is far beyond cover based shooting and QTEs. It's far more focused on stealth survival mechanics and the game doesn't have QTEs. TLOU isn't loved because it's the first game to have a mature story. I have no mouth, System Shock 2, Xenogears, Deus Ex, Persona, list goes on they did it first. It's TLOU's implementation of gameplay into the story and it's themes that gives it the lauded status it has.

>>379887807
>You ever thought that maybe people don't like longass games because they are usually such a waste of time to play?
Fine, but does not justify the utter lack of originality, subtlety, or good writing in the opening scene of TLOU.

Fun fact, I think it was you who brought up the Children of Men comparison. So here is a thing to ponder:
How much time did Children of Men spend establishing Theo's son's dead? TLOU needed 20 minutes of absolute clichés and insanely in-your-face exposition. How much time did Children of Man need to establish the same point?

And that is very much my problem with TLOU.

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>>379888475
>TLOU is not nearly as bad as Fifty Shades of Grey of course. It's more on a Last of Us level. Actually, it is basically last of us.

>>379888475
>OK: I'm stretching it: TLOU is not nearly as bad as Fifty Shades of Grey of course. It's more on a Last of Us level. Actually, it is basically last of us.
God dammit I think my brain shut off for a moment.
I meant I Am Legend. TLOU is basically I am Legend crossed with some REALLY terrible attempt to emulate Children of Men. But it is much more on the level of the former than the later.

>>379888475
>still won't explain
Nice try at backtracking. I guess this means that TLOU is actually amazing and you failed to come up with valid enough reasons to challenge its greatness.

>>379889208
Not a bait. An honest stupid mistake of me. Seriously, you people should learn to tell the difference. If you think that is bait, you really really might have a major problem being able to understand basic textual intentions. Which might explain a lot.

That said: yeah. Sorry about the mistake. See >>379889256 I was thinking of I Am Legend.

>>379886158
>British accent means pretentious
??????

>>379887267
I'm talking about actual devs who have come out and said TLoU was great.

>>379889526
You see, this might surprise you, but when people identify the absolutely clear baiting, you are not going to get a genuine emotional response from them. They already know what you are doing, no matter how hard you try: they won't actually seriously engage you anymore.

You might still get a reply, but I honestly don't understand what do you find so valuable about it. Maybe it's just the very fact somebody acknowledges your existence? The thrill of waiting for a response? If that is the case - I'll happily indulge you. It does not cost me much.

>>379888597
No? I said length didn't matter, right? Ironic that you an advocating for literature couldn't even read my comment correctly. But any half decent work of literature is far more engaging than a shitty game like Persona as well.

>>379890026
>But any half decent work of literature is far more engaging than a shitty game like Persona as well.
Again, maybe. But that still does not in any way speak in TLOU's benefit.

>>379889923
I wrote detailed posts earlier, implying I am serious. Come on, lay it onto me.

everyone shut up phil spencer is talking

>>379890347
Which one? I think replied to just about every point so far that was worth replying, but if think I missed something, please just quote the post in question. Unless it's the one about children of men, in which case just refrain to >>379888997

>>379888997
That's because TLOU has the player play through the character defining sequence itself rather than something much quicker. It's how a video game does exposition and portrays tension: through gameplay.

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Not one of you has mentioned that F2P and mobile games have pushed AAA western devs away from arcade style games. So they looked for a niche that those games don't really fulfill, and they found it.

That's your real, straight from the horse's mouth, reason.

>>379890218
TLOU doesn't waste any time though. Everything has a story/gameplay reason for being there. Persona and JRPGs in general tend to be all padding.

>>379891206
>It's how a video game does exposition and portrays tension: through gameplay.
Except the scene in question is pure expository cutscene? Also: no, TLOU actually completely FAILS to establish it's characters though mechanics - I mean we are talking about a game where protective fatherly feeling towards a girl is a core theme yet the girl is magically invulnerable and invisible to enemies, and any actual threat that comes to her comes in cutscene or occasionally purely scripted segment that is just one step above a cutscene.

This is a weak ass argument.
The real reason why TLOU needs twenty minutes of terrible clichés is because the writers were both morons and assumed their audience to be idiots who can't make any actual connections themselves, so they tiresomely feed you exposition with terrible, forced segment after segment to explicitly explain to characters how individual characters feel and why.

It's also because Children of Men actually had something more to it's story than just the "fatherly insticts be strong yo!" so it does not actually force it so terribly, terribly hard.

>>379892190
>Everything has a story/gameplay reason for being there.
The actual story has no reason to exist in the first place. As for Persona style games: look I don't even like them, but even I can figure out that the "padding" is kinda the whole point here. It's like complaining that a TV series isn't as condensed as a 90 minute movie: it's because they aim for a completely different type of experience. I don't argue that either is inherently better or worse either. I just really want to make you understand that from a narrative and cinematic perspective, TLOU is no masterpiece. You might argue that neither is Persona and fine, I actually agree: but flaw of one is not an excuse of the other. That goes both ways.

>>379891782
>Not one of you has mentioned that F2P and mobile games have pushed AAA western devs away from arcade style games.
Except that is not really true either. Maybe this can make sense somewhat for console markets, but not for the entire industries. Second half of 90's, the golden era, was definitely not era of arcade style games. Not to mention that the rise of F2P and mobile gaming came a LOT later than the big cinematization of gaming - almost a decade later.
This whole thing: it started in late 90's and early 00's. It came with games like Max Payne and spread from there.
F2P became the nightmare that it is basically with Valves F2P release of TF2 (which was an absolute novelty) sometime in 2006 or so, I think, but it took another two years to really fester, and "mobile gaming" actually really took off first as true "casual" gaming on PC's particularly with advent of social media and things like that Facebook farm game. Those were 2009-2011 years.
Arkade style games were going out of fashion since the release of original Xbox already.

>>379893439
>purely expository cutscene
Have you played TLOU? Didn't you JUST say that it takes the first twenty minutes of the game?
>protective feeling
Yeah sure, but it's not that way the whole time, and when it comes into play you have stuff like the horse section or the final bit.
>cutscene or purely scripted segment
Confirmed for not having played the entire Winter section?
>they need twenty minutes because they are morons
No, they map out the entire event that changed Joel, from its context, how it plays into the greater setting itself, and the exact moment where it happens (when he's holding Sara and she gets shot.)
>more than fatherly instincts
So does TLOU? Both have the main character'sprogression as the true center of the story, but there's other stuff like 'ppl suck in post apocalyptic situations', other characters growth, etc.
>no reason to exist
What does this even mean? At least fucking elaborate. Joel and Tess do dirty jobs for the sake of survival, and getting Ellie to SLC is that job. BOOM. Story starts.
>padding's the point
>boring gameplay where the player interacts very little with the game and just makes certain choices from a menu is intended
Sure thing, doesn't make it good though. All mediums specialize in their own way of storytelling and offering their experiences. For video games, it's based on interactivity with an environment that responds to said interactivity. Long ass games with menu based stuff like a Crusader Kings 2 or JRPGs in general don't have much of an environment that a player can't interact with than menus that make the game do everything for you. Not very interesting. In TLOU you do everything pertinent to the story.

>>379878573
Normies got into the industry.

>>379878573
Cinematic games can exist alongside more combat / gameplay oriented games. Just thought you should know.

>>379881904
Resident Evil 4.

>>379899139
>Have you played TLOU? Didn't you JUST say that it takes the first twenty minutes of the game?
Except we were talking about those twenty minutes you idiot. In fact we were talking rather specifically about that opening cutscene with the gift fucking present.
And that is still not an argument because in the rest of the game, the gameplay absolutely FAILS to actually properly reflect the themes and character transformations. See the point about the character being story-wise object of anxiety and protection being literally invulnerable from a mechanic standpoint.

>you have stuff like the horse section
You mean those another segments where the game takes all agency away from you to explicitly showel more over-the-top-spell-it-out-exposition down your throat?
And how does THAT excuse the poor writing in the opening segment?

>No, they map out the entire event that changed Joel, from its context, how it plays into the greater setting itself,
Dude, I know what they are doing. I'm saying that it's bad. That they should not be doing this. Because it's boring, predictable, needless, clichéd, lacks any subtlety, it's tiresome and annoying and utterly, painfully generic. And here is how it plays into the greater game: Joel has daughter issues because he lost one already.
Exactly the same as it plays into Children of Men. Who managed to achieve the same point, more powerfully, through I think THREE SIDE LINES all together.

>So does TLOU?
It really does not.

>Joel and Tess do dirty jobs for the sake of survival, and getting Ellie to SLC is that job.
That is not a theme you moron. That is a pointless fucking setup.

>Sure thing, doesn't make it good though.

>Long ass games with menu based stuff like a Crusader Kings 2 or JRPGs in general don't have much of an environment that a player can't interact with than menus that make the game do everything for you.
Oh my god my eyes almost fucking caught on fire reading that shit. WHAT THE FUCK.?! Jesus you are a moron.

>>379901915
>In fact we were talking rather specifically about that opening cutscene with the gift fucking present.
Wtf no you aren't. First of all you said 20 minutes, second of all we are talking about the character defining moment. You control Sara, then Joel with the only cutscene bits being a couple in there that are not longer than a minute. At this point you're talking like you haven't played the fucking game.
> the gameplay absolutely FAILS to actually properly reflect the themes and character transformations. See the point about the character being story-wise object of anxiety and protection being literally invulnerable from a mechanic standpoint.
So...you still haven't played the game? She isn't the object of anxiety and protection until much later. How many times have I mentioned character progression now? That should be enough for anyone that played the game to know that I am talking about how Joel couldn't give a damn about Ellie until later parts which are presented in ways where Ellie's invulnerability isn't making so much an appearance that it becomes overly narrative breaking. Hell in most of the game it doesn't make such an appearance that it's game breaking. Even more so once we start comparing it to other video games.
>You mean those another segments where the game takes all agency away from you
The player is in control during those segments what the fuck are you talking about?
>And how does THAT excuse the poor writing in the opening segment?
Because the player has control in both of them? Holy fuck, seriously stop wasting both yours and my time if you haven't played the game.
>It really does not.
It does. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't played the game. Bill, the black guys, the cannibals, the overall focus on survival, Joel's less moral take on survival in general, Joel's brother, etc. all have jack shit to do with muh father daughter.
>That is not a theme you moron.
What the fuck kind of pretentious garbage are you implying?

>>379878573
>Why are Western devs so fixated on cinematic experiences and muh feels?
>western

What is Metal Gear Solid series, what is Yakuza series, what are all jRPG. Stories in video games exist since 80s. You just woke up from hibernation or trolling?

>>379886715
Most normal people get their kicks from living in actual reality while lonely basement dwellers need muh immersion in their games to forget about their reality

>>379906239
He's shitposting, don't bother.