What the fuck was his problem?

Brother just wanted to get paid, he didn't give two shits no more.

A depressed man making one mistake after the other.

>>379840593
Why didn't he just teleport away?

He probably lost track of what the fuck was going on since the plot was so goddamned stupid.

>>379840507
this game had worse graphics than gta 4

>>379840771
>I can't understand it, therefore it's stupid!

He didn't want to kidnap the child, he just had to escape his dark past.
He was only following orders.

Nothin' personal, kiddo.

>>379840865
A baby could understand the plot.

It was stupid.

>>379840771

True dat. The writing's so all over the place that Kellogg remembers Shaun giving him the order to kill all the other frozen dudes even though Shaun was a newborn

I can't believe they thought having a dog track down an old scent trail made sense

>>379840865
>He didn't like it, so he must have misunderstood it!

>>379840969
Name a better, more emotionally investing Fallout plot. You can't.
>m-m-m-muh New Vegas!!11
No, Shit Vegas isn't better, fuck off.

>>379841117
>getting emotionally invested in Fallout 3 - Freaky Friday edition

>>379841117
Were you honestly emotionally invested in FO4's plot? I'm surprised to hear that since the game hardly gives you any reason to care about Shaun or even your spouse.

>>379841117
>Emotionally invested plot

>The wife character you've known for five minutes is killed in front of you
>Please feel sad

>Your missing son that you've never interacted with is now an old man dying of cancer
>Please feel sad

He was in a Bethesda game

>>379841328
>>379841210
>You're a parent searching for an abducted child
>this isn't emotional
Maybe if you're a fucking sociopath with abusive parents who's never known parental love and will spend his miserable life as a virgin.

Go see a fucking psychiatrist

>>379841117

bait

>>379841441
Lmao it's the same generic plot as fallout 3. I have zero reason to care about Shaun other than the game telling me to find him.

At least you get to talk to your dad in 3

>>379841441
It looks good on paper but you interact with your family for 10 minutes before being thrown into that scenario. It takes a lot more to have a character grow on me than just being told to care about them because of plot reasons. I don't care about my family because of my birth certificate telling me that we are blood related, I care about them because I've known them my whole life and we've gone through a shitload of experiences together. I cared more about the dad in FO3 than I did about Shaun and the wife in FO4 because of this. You at least spent some time with Liam Dadson, going through some pretty varied scenarios and situations where you can see him react differently to your chosen actions, making him grow as a character that you can either care about or hate depending on what sort of person you are.

In FO4, there's hardly any interaction at all. I'm just told to care because the baby asset is designated as my son and the lady NPC is my wife.

>>379841671
>I have zero reason to care about Shaun
Yeah, he's only your fucking son. But who cares about children, right? My dad beat me, so obviously there are no parents out there who love their children, right? Fuck parents! *cuts wrist*

>>379841809
If you can't sympathize with a parent who lost their child (even if you don't know them), then you have genuine brain chemistry problems.

>>379841117

Fallout
Fallout 2
Fallout New Vegas.

>>379841853
You're a fucking loon.

I just love how you're implying I have emotional damage while you're getting attached to people you know for five minutes. I don't fall in love with every girl I talk to, and neither should you.

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>>379841984
>What is empathy?

>>379841926
I can sympathise but you're telling me to be the parent who's lost their child and spouse that I haven't known at all. It's why I have an easier time carrying out quests for NPCs and empathising with their struggles than I did adopting the emotions of the MC in FO4.

>>379841984

Don't feed the trolls. This guy doesn't even realise player is a synth

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>>379841984
>I don't fall in love with every girl I talk to, and neither should you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuyMicRUUnw

>>379842169
Empathy is something you feel when you've gone through the same experience as someone else. Sympathy is the word you're looking for.

Nice little Freudian slip.

>>379842169

Something you clearly do not understand.

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>>379842180
>I can sympathize, you guys!
>I just don't because UHHHH
>But I'm not a psycho! For real!
You're either trolling me or this place is worse than I was told.

>>379841984
When my daughters were born, I known them for a total of a few minutes but I knew I loved them more than anything and I knew they would be the best things to ever happen in my life. If someone snatched my child that I knew only a few minutes of in its entirety of life, I would travel through hell and back just to get her.

>>379842567
According to this thread, you are insane and stupid.

>>379842567
This doesn't compare. Shaun isn't your real life flesh and blood child. He's a video game character and the son of your player character.

>>379842567
That's different anon. You knew about your children for at least 35 weeks. And the woman who carried them is obviously a loved one.

If I spent 35 weeks (or even 30 minutes through a fallout 3 esque intro) with Shaun it'd be easier to care.

>>379841853
>I should care about this baby who I've known for only 5-10 minutes.

It's literally the reverse of fallout 3's plot, except in 3 you could always assume the lone wanderer hates their dad for abandoning them in the vault, so it at least makes some sense why you aren't running around doing odd jobs.

In new vegas you could be chasing Benny for answers, revenge, you could just happen to go to vegas and not want to mess with the guy who nearly killed you, only for victor to take you to house after arriving and getting pulled into the main plot.

In 4, no matter what your character always acts concerned for Shaun, even if they've been spending a month in game helping random people, making drugs, weapons and armour or building towns instead of searching for their son.

>>379842347
Like I said, I can sympathise with the struggle but the game wants me to adopt the emotions of this parent which isn't sympathising. I can sympathise with a struggle or motivation and proceed to help an NPC with that in a quest line just fine because it matters to them and that's the sort of character that I play as, but when you're telling me to play as the parent with this particular type of struggle or motivation, then it's no longer as surface level as sympathising. Being in the shoes of the character would require the game to give me reasons to care that deeply about it which it didn't even try to do. They honestly shouldn't have rushed into throwing you into the post apocalyptic future and let you spend a few days in the past with your family so you can develop some sort of bond with them. That would have let me be emotionally-invested in the plot since I would grow to care about the family and the MC instead of just playing the game to fulfill the checklist of quests.

>>379842804
>railroading is fine if it's Obsidshit doing it
Opinion discarded.

>>379840507
Kellogg went from being a man/father trying to provide for his wife and kid to losing them and becoming a broken and bitter man. After losing them, he lost his purpose in life and became nothing but an empty shell, working for a group only because they paid well. A mercenary. He is also supposed to be somewhat of a reflection of what could be for your character. He himself during the sequence were you go through his memories, states how he can sympathise with the lone wanderer.

I like how they touch a bit on the NCR and if you paid attention, he was from San Francisco.

>>379840507
Shitty writing was his problem

>>379842742
It is supposed to reflect the same concept. That you would do what the character would do if you were in his/her shoes. Your mentality can be applied to the same for anything in any game because you aren't in the game thus you aren't the characters. They aren't real so you cannot connect with them. Real parents like myself have sympathy for the main character thus you know why he/she is doing it. One would have to be a shit parent if they wouldn't want to go and rescue their child if taken from them.

That's the point.

>>379842928
>railroading
Confirmed for never playing the game

>>379843235
pretty weak premise

>>379843235
You're honestly expecting autists to be capable of role-playing. Rethink your life.

>>379843440
hilarious

There's literally only one role you can play in Fallout 4

>>379843529
The fuck do you think role-playing means?

>>379843235
That's fair and understandable, but it is pretty shaky and would have benefited a lot from just letting you spend more time with your family before having them taken away from you. At the very least, players would have been able to develop their own bond with the spouse and child instead of having to be told to care. Even if the game had to rely on time cuts like FO3's intro, say from the start of your marriage to your spouse to the pregnancy and birth and finally to spending some time as a family, it would have been significant enough to give the player a reason to care because they experience this for themselves and aren't just being told that it happened.

>>379843529
Two actually. A loving ex-militay husband and father, or a loving lawyer wife and mother.

>>379840507
He is a victim of deep bethesda lore
>wife, we can't go back to THE NCR in the WEST, it's all messed up over there in THE HUB

>>379840507
He had a shitty life, pretty much drained his morals from his body. He didn't give a fuck anymore.

>>379843595
>Yes
>Yes
>Yes
>Yes you fuck

>>379843595
in a role playing game you typically have the freedom to make up your own character, give them a backstory, an attitude, a fashion sense.

Every time you play 4 it's the same character

>>379843640
>it is pretty shaky and would have benefited a lot from just letting you spend more time with your family before having them taken away from you
It's only shaky if the player is a sociopath incapable of basic human emotion. It's not Bethesda's fault most /v/-goers are mental.
>b-b-b-but you MUST experience something in order to be able to sympathise!
>it's LITERALLY impossible to project yourself into someone else's situation and imagine their feelings!
Sure, if you're autistic.

>>379843341
Maybe or maybe not. No one is exactly the same so of course you may not like it. For a fallout game, overall, it isn't all that great. Kind of fun. But they went a little too far from the fallout aspect. But the plot isn't bad. The idea is there and it is an emotional one, something that adults with children could sympathise. I can see young single people with no children could find a lot of this hard to accept or grasp or make connections. But you and I both know if they gave way too much time trying to make this connection of emotions for the parent to kids for the audience, majority of you would bitch and moan about how so much time is wasted on nothing. And really, look at previous fallouts "why bother caring about saving your vault due to needing a new water chip when you never knew a single person in the vault in the first place"? I'm the end, you could save your vault or not. In fallout 4, you could help your son or not or even extract him. Up to you in the end.

Nothing is perfect.

>>379843235
It doesn't work. Your own children awaken an innate biological desire to protect them. A work of fiction doesn't trigger the same thing spontaneously, it has to work bring it out for you. Fallout 4 doesn't try to make you care about your family, it just expects you to. Even if you're a bleeding heart that forms emotional attachments to fictional characters within seconds (which by the way isn't normal) it doesn't negate the fact that Fallout 4's main quest story is a lazily written, lackluster piece of shit.

>>379843641
>the height of role playing is a sex change
You should be embarrassed

>>379843862
Way to put words in my mouth m8. I think it's just as retarded as you do.

>>379843832
Your mental gymnastics are amusing

>>379843764
Were you born in the 00s? Have you never played a p&p RPG with pre-made characters? Fallout games have always been RPGs where you're given a pre-made backstory and character. Bethesda just took it a step further by fleshing out said character's backstory and motives. It's Obsidshit that fucked up by not having a pre-made character, and settling to let the players make it up themselves, because thinking up stories is too hard and we aren't getting paid enough.

Playing Fallout 4 is like playing an RPG where your DM gives you a pre-made character to play. If your autism isn't letting you role-play as this character, that's your fault.

>>379843832
It's not impossible to just simply project yourself into someone's situation but it wouldn't be as emotionally investing as experiencing all of it for yourself. I can imagine their feelings and sympathise but it would have been much better if I could develop those feelings for myself and take a step further into empathy.

>>379843859
I'm a crybaby and I agree completely I didn't give a single shit about (X) SHAUN

>>379840507
His problem was being written by incompetent writer(s).

>>379844015
There's a difference between a premade character like JC Denton and the sole survivor. Don't play the false equivalence game here.

>>379843834
>The idea is there and it is an emotional one, something that adults with children could sympathise.
Yeah it's a good thing this game was made for younger people who are around the ages of 14 to their 20s in mind and not fucking boomers

>>379843859
Maybe and maybe not. There is a word called sympathy. And that is exactly where the developers were trying to do. Get the player to gain sympathy for the character. Just because you are a fedora tipper who thinks that due to anything being biological, that you can't have any other kind of emotions and feelings for anything inanimate, doesn't mean you are correct. You would then find all video games boring because there really isn't any emotional attachment to anything because well, it isn't biological.

Add to that, let it sink in for a moment: have you ever played Fallout 1 and 2? While it gives you way more freedom, you still have a specific objective and path to follow. It was just more expanded and more options during g the play through.

>>379844168
It's literally the same thing. A pre-made character, in a game that offers you a linear story with minor variations (although let's be fair, F4 offers a LOT more variation in non-main-quest content).

Just because your beloved Obsidian forgot to write a backstory for the Courier in NV and had a boring ass blank slate instead of a main character doesn't mean it's proper role-playing.

>>379844304
>It was just more expanded and more options during g the play through.
THIS IS EXACTLY THE POINT

>>379844370
no it's not

have you ever played deus ex?

>>379840507
They should've let us deal with him in different ways. You can spare Benny, start working with him, even fuck him. I can't see why Kellogg would be any different.

>>379844268
Well, I'm only 28 so I'm not that old or anything. I got married younger and have two kids.

>>379844015
>Fallout 1
>you're from a vault
>Fallout 2
>you're a tribal and related to the guy in the vault
Wow such detailed backstories. They just give you a very loosely defined role to contextualize your place in the world and never at any point force you into the role of a swashbuckling pre-war military vet looking for his kid. You acting like New Vegas being the first game in the series to do something like that is laughable.

>>379844370
>player choice and freedom is bad
Gotta love it

>>379841117
I was more invested in the water chip than Shaun tbqh family

>>379844372
The center points were. Not the beginning or the end. As much as I wish there were far more options through the centerline part of the game, I can see it being tough to voice all the lines.

It would have been fun if the Gunners were far more than mercenary raider types.

>>379844015
No, it's so players can create their own character instead of forcing them into one they don't care about.

Pre made characters can be done well, planescape torment proves that, but fallout 4 isn't a good example.

Also thinking up stories is too hard? You do realise that fallout 3 and fallout 4 both start the exact same way with the only difference being the roles are reversed.

Maybe think next time before making yourself look like a retard.

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>bethesdrones

>>379844581
If you want to play a blank slate, go play BioWare shit. Fallout has always had predetermined protagonists.
>>379844560
Again, Beth went the extra mile and fleshed out the backstories for the protagonists of F3 and F4. They did nothing new to the series, they just did a better job of it than other developers.

>>379844783
>BETHESDA Fallout has always had predetermined protagonists
Ftfy

>>379844873
>New Vegas was my first Fallout game
Good to know, bub.

>>379844783
>Fallout has always had predetermined protagonists.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

>>379844919
I must've missed the part where the vault dweller had a son named Shaun

>>379844783
>Fallout has always had predetermined protagonists.

Ignoring the fact that the little backstories written for Fallout 1 and 2 premade characters are never mentioned or effect anything in-game and also you can instead create a custom build character that doesn't even have a inconsequential 2 paragraph bio.

>>379845089
That's just a fuck-up on Black Isle's part. Beth fixed it by not only giving your character a backstory, but also having it have an effect on the story/game world.

Stop falling for it.

>>379845293

N e v e r

>>379845239
It wasn't a fuck up you cocksucker, it was an intentional choice.

They had prebuilds for new players so they wouldn't be overwhelmed by character creation.

>>379845239
Your dad fucked up when he didn't pull out of your mother. rekt.

>>379845293
Troll or not these are shit arguments

>>379845239
>slurp slurp slurp *gulp*
>thank you for cummies daddy Bethesda

>>379844304
>Maybe and maybe not. There is a word called sympathy. And that is exactly where the developers were trying to do. Get the player to gain sympathy for the character. Just because you are a fedora tipper who thinks that due to anything being biological, that you can't have any other kind of emotions and feelings for anything inanimate, doesn't mean you are correct. You would then find all video games boring because there really isn't any emotional attachment to anything because well, it isn't biological.
There needs to be a reason given for the sympathy, it needs to be built up, otherwise what's the difference between them and that raider I hunted down solely so I could loot his corpse and sell his shit? He had a mother, father, maybe a girl and a child, who knows?
You can't just designate someone as a sympathetic character, that's trash tier fiction in any medium. No filmmaker alive would get away with it, and only obsessive clingy fucks like you wouldn't care.

>>379845603
>*slurrrp* *lick, lick, lick*
>"M-More, daddy Obsidian!"
Nice "arguments".

>>379844783
>Fallout 1: vault dweller who was sent into the wastes. Can pick three different presets all designed for a certain play style and some small amount of backstory (one for combat, one for stealth and one for persuading people.) or create your own character.

>Fallout 2: Tribal sent into the wastes to find a geck. Can also choose 3 presets or create your own character.

>Fallout 3: your mom died giving birth to you, you were raised in a vault by Liam Neeson. When you're about 19 he left without telling you why and you have to find him in the wastes.

>Fallout New Vegas: You were a courier. That's it. Anything else is up to you to decide.

>Fallout 4: your a survivor of the war who was frozen for 200 years. You lived in sanctuary hills. You had 1 child, a boy named Shaun. You had a dog who went missing shortly before the war. You were either a infantryman fighting the Chinese or a female lawyer.

Fallout doesn't always have pre determined characters, or at the very least not as much as the Bethesda entry's. Get your facts right.

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>>379844783
You're either not getting me or are baiting. The only pre-determind role they gave you in the original games were some optional pre-made characters that no one ever used and a very basic role, eg vault dweller looking for water, or tribal looking for a GECK. Other than that, they are complete blank slates that allow the player to project whatever personality you want onto them as well as whatever kind of role you want to mold them into over the course of the game. New Vegas was the same deal.

All bethesda managed to accomplish with these incredibly hamfisted and awkwardly handled pre-determined characters is severely limit player agency and choice in the game world as well as going against their own fucking design philosophy of letting the player go anywhere and do anything, when at the same time they want you to be a super concerned parent running around desperately looking for their kid while in game you're building fucking towns and grabbing some smelly wasteland dreg's lost gun some raiders stole or whatever else.

I took the bait.

>>379846063
>"Fallout doesn't always have predetermined characters, except it does."
You Obsidrones are all fucking mentally ill.

>>379845893
You keep saying obsidian when you're the only one talking about them

Keep deep throating Todd Howard though

>>379846371
how is a vault dweller/tribal sent on a quest any different than the courier out for revenge?

>>379845893
>oh Todd gimme that fucking cum I worked hard for it I want it I want it

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thoughts?

>>379840507
The guy disappointed me twice: the fact that one of the most dangerous mercs has a laughably easy and straightforward battle, robbing you of any satisfaction you could get for avenging your son's parent's murder, and that his character was pretty much wasted. What's the point of comparing him to the main character and musing about how he can end up in the same situation if I already know how Kellogg's story ended (with me putting a bullet in his brain even though I just wanted to talk to him to find out where's my son instead of taking his brains out and finding a convenient brain scan I never heard of before)? I thought he was gonna resurface later on through Nick, but nope.

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>>379840507
His congregation.

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>>379847065
WK's antics on the radio is the best thing about it.

>>379847065
It just underlined everything I don't like about modern Fallout and then ends on more boring settlement junk. It's nice that they finally gave you the option to play an evil character, but that should have just been in the base game. Far Harbor is vastly superior. The others aren't worth mentioning.

>>379840507
Bad writing.

>>379844015

The only game that did that was FO3, and even there you had some say in shaping your backstory.
FO4 literally forces you in a role, whether you like it or not.

>>379847065
+Good location, interesting layout, neat new weapons.

-Shit plot, shit characters, shit optimization

IMO that DLC would have been perfect if they removed all of the raider bullshit and just let you explore and unlock Nukaworld. The location could easily stand on it's own without needing the raider theme.

>>379841391
>>379841809

What they should have done was: Have an Institute team wake you, your wife and your baby and try to take you. You obviously resist those weird strangers trying to kidnap you and a fight breaks out. You kill them in the fight and have to get your wife and child out of the vault.
Game goes normally, you meet Codsworth and start building up the settlement and exploring the surrounding areas, just like they made Fallout 4, only difference being that your wife and kid are with you are characters you interact with, maybe even give them a function or two like producing stimpaks or scavenging.
Game progresses a bit, you come home to find your settlement damaged, your wife dead. As you find her, you turn around just in time for Kellogg to knock you out.
Time skip
You wake up back in the crio chamber (this can be explained later with the <we left you alive because we needed a backup>). You make yor way out of the vault again only to find the settlement you built before damaged and codsworth broken down.
You get a quest to fix him up and get the video of what happened, Kellogg killing your wife, taking your kid and shooting codsworth.
End of prologue, game begins.

>>379842857

You need to work on your sentence flow. It's really hard to follow. I gave up after "just fine because it matters to them and that's the sort of character that I play as, but when you're telling me to.."<- avoid this type of rhetorical rambling.

Get to the point. Shorten your statements.

>>379847498

If they'd also fix the dialogue options into more than just Yes, Yes, No (Yes), Sarcastic (Yes), it'd be something I'd actually pay money for.

>>379847629
>I don't want to address your arguments so I'll deflect them with this random grammar problem I found. Learn english nothing personnel kid

>>379846371
>A tiny amount of inconsequential backstory is the same as the amount of shit Bethesda try's to force you to care about.

The completely optional back story is only there so you understand what the characters build is. Albert and Chitsa are for those who prefer to talk things out. Natalia and Mingan are for players who prefer to use stealth. Max and Narg are for players who prefer to just kill shit. It's not important to the story, it's there so you understand how your suppose to use them.

>>379847715
anon he's giving you advice on rhetorical technique

chill

>>379847715

I wasn't arguing with you before. I don't know if i disagree or agree with what you're saying. All I know is I can't be asked to shovel through your poorly written rambling. If you can't be bothered to take criticism or learn English I doubt what you had to say was important to begin with.

>>379847715

Nobody has the slightest clue what you're even trying to say. Maybe take the guy's advice and fix your grammar before making smartass comments.

>>379847715
Nah, he's right, my post was all over the place. Even I had trouble reading it again after he commented. My train of thought just up and crashed for some reason, my bad.

>>379840507
shitty writing in a shitty game. nothing to see here folks

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>mfw watching someone defend fallout 4

Fallout 4 was a dumpster fire from the start.
All your PC does is talk about their kid over and over while spending hundreds of hours shooting supermutants and raiders in the face so they can collect alarm clocks and desk fans to make defenses to protect a "stettlement" made out of plywood.
It's like they had the devs split into two teams.
One did the actual main story, the other did all the settlement minecrafting shit and in the end they mashed both together with no regards to how it was going to effect the overall game.

Kellogs shit writing was a symptom of a overall problem, the fact Bethesda genuinely doesn't give a shit about making games anymore and is more interested in making resource files for modders to use to turn their shit into gold.

>Hey boss, seems your father has escaped the Vault and is looking for you. What do I do if meet him? Tell him you're still alive and teleport him to you?

>Gods no Kellogg! I have a much idea. Take this synth kid version of me and watch over it for a while in Diamond City. If you meet my dad just say you're working for the Institute and that he'll never see his son again hahaha!

>Okay sir if you say so...

>Also make sure to forget that i'm actually the Director of the Institute just in case your brain gets blown up and they access your memory.

>Are you certain sir?

>Yes! you see Kellogg this is all a big social experiment that i'm doing for science.

>>379849352
I mean, Shaun did explain that he wanted to give the PC a chance to get his revenge on Kellogg, and that he never forgave Kellogg for how the way he handled was to be a simple mission and ended up killing his mom.

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>>379849352
>Be me
>Kellog blames everything on "the director"
>I finally get into institute
>Robot kid freaks out, i assume it a trap
>Duck in corner and pull out legendary shotgun with explosive perk
>Door opens
>I blast the first fucker who in the doorway and make my escape

>"He was your own son" blasts over the intercom

>Family reunion Fallout style.

>>379850890
f