Sonic was never good

Since 1994

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>sonic was never go-

What was that?

>>379777005
Was that when that piece of shit Sonic 3 came out? I'll agree with you then.

Nah, it was good from 1998 to about 2006. Everything else was pretty trash though, except maybe CD. Mania looks good too.

>>379777037
You know, people always post about how good they think Unleashed was, but honestly I think 06 is better.

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Sonic was always meant to be a marketing plow to compete with Nintendo. It was never the games that made Sonic, it was the personality. Because if it were the games then the franchise wouldn't have staggered for over a decade, and even now the series still tries to keep its claws in the dirt.

Admit it, as a kid you thought Sonic was the coolest.

>>379777447
it gives me lols when people unironically think Sonic Adventure 1/2 were great games

why does Sonic 06 get (rightfully) shit on yet SA1/2 get a pass for being cumbersome, fidgety, glitchy messes

>>379777761
Because SA1/SA2 fans were 90s kids
If Sonic 06 had been released, they would have also praised it

>>379776801
and water is wet OP, what is your point?

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>>379777149
>Nah, it was good from 1998 to about 2006. Everything else was pretty trash though, except maybe CD. Mania looks good too.
Excellent taste. I'd argue that Secret Rings and Black Knight were good as well, but would have been 3x better with an Adventure-style control scheme

>>379777447
Nah, I thought Shadow was the coolest. He even says so himself

>>379777874
I've only played SA2. It always felt clunky, but I can't stand it at all now.

>>379777665
True patrician's game

>>379776801
It seriously never was. It was a borderline average platformer with a cartoony mascot claiming to be cooler and edgier than Nintendo's cartoony platformer mascot. The only reason people give a shit about Sonic is due to nostalgia, most likely nostalgia rooted in playing the first 2 Zones over and over

>>379778839
Sonic only survives since, back in the day, his games were the only halfway decent "Mario killers".

I have a counter point

Sonic was always good

>>379776801

Sore ass nintenbro detected

Never forget Genesis did what nintendo never could

>>379777447
I guess good character design and marketing can get you pretty far...

>>379779048
>Colors
>Generations
>Chronicles
>06
>Lost World
>Boom
>3D Blast
>Unleashed
>Forces
>good
Have you ever considered a career in comedy?

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Then why is Sonic the only mascot platformer to go toe to toe with Mario and live to tell the tale?
>le autism meme
That community didn't exist in the 90s. Sonic's DeviantArt autism community started with Shadow. The fact that Sonic survived the 90's with the handicap of the crazed fandom shows that there's more to it than a lot of people realize.

>>379779063
Okay, I'm defending Sonic here but that's bullshit.

Sonic started off with a great concept: a platformer where dynamic physics dictate how your traverse the environment. It was around the time of 3D Sonic where they gave into their own marketing and made it all about "Gotta go fast" where Sonic ultimately fell from grace.

Bottom line:
Sonic is a hedgehog who goes fast.
He goes fast by rolling into a ball (something hedgehogs are known to do) and going down hill.
The moment Sonic the Hedgehog stops being about physics and rolling is the moment where Sonic's identity as a hedgehog becomes entirely meaningless and, thus, the entire point of the character is compromised.

This is why Sonic Mania will be the true return of Sonic.

>>379779843
>That community didn't exist in the 90s
yes it did, you just didn't know about it

>>379779324
>Colors
>Generations
>Bad
HAHAHAHAHAH FUCK U ARIN

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>>379776801
You're right. Good thing that will change when Sonic Mania comes out.

>>379776801
Yes it was and quite often is.

>>379779309
Welcome to sales and marketing. You start tomorrow.

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>>379779990
Perhaps so, but if Sonic was always a bad franchise of games then do you really think that that community was big enough and powerful enough back then to make it rival Mario? Autism is strong, I admit, but it seems very doubtful that the Sonic fandom was that powerful in the 90's, especially without the internet to fuel the fire. You know?

>>379779995
Alright, pal. I'm on your side, but let's tone down the "You dislike Sonic, you must be Arin!" stuff, okay? It makes you sound overly defensive and silly. If you're going to defend these games, why not refer to review scores instead?

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>>379779843
Adding on to your points...

>>379779324
I liked Lost World, and we shouldn't immediately throw Forces under the bus just yet.

>>379779063
The Genesis had better hardware than the NES, that's it. The SNES absolutely destroyed Sega's shit.

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>>379780654
Love this webm. Wouldn't be a proper Sonic thread without it.

>>379780741
>I liked Lost World
I'm jealous that you managed to enjoy it, Anon.

>>379780654
inb4 someone says this is entirely just level memorization with no skill when outside of him being brave it's perfectly possible with how the games do level design well, and said memorization is a skill in itself.

>>379779995
>Boost shit
>good
Fuck off. If anything, Arin defends the Nu-Sonic shitshow.

>>379780741
>we shouldn't immediately throw Forces under the bus just yet
I don't see why not
>Shit music
>Nostalgia pandering AGAIN
>Character creator (lol, aren't we so wacky and self-aware. Dude DeviantArt LMAO!)
>Boost shit
>Actually looks worse than generations, which was already fairly bad

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>>379776801

I'll meet you halfway, OP.

Considering you play as someone who can run faster than the speed of sound, I will acknowledge that the games have never been designed correctly.

Sonic SHOULD be about vast, open landscapes where you can GENUINELY go faster than the speed of sound, augmented by lots of "bullet time" to compensate for human perception & reflex limitations.

Cramped indoor areas should be left for Tails and Knuckles, both of whom shouldn't be able to go even HALF as fast as Sonic, other wise there is nothing unique about him.

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>>379779843
I mean, you're right about the momentum based platforming being crucial and everything, but "Sonic isn't hedgehog-y enough" is more of a secondary issue.

Also, you're responding seriously to what it blatantly a bait thread. There's even another one of similar content right now on the catalog. Plebs on /v/ will never stop shitting on Sonic, even if every new Sonic game is just a Mania sequel and 3D Sonic is killed off entirely. Shitting on Sonic is a meme that will live longer than any of us, I'm truly sorry to say.

>>379780741
>I likes lost world
Have you played any of the Mario Galaxy games before? Just wondering

>>379781413
>You're responding seriously to a bait thread
Oh, I know. I just thought it would be a good excuse to talk about Sonic, its mechanics and how the focus has changed over the years.

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>Mediashill
This is a Rhythm heaven thread now

>>379776801
Is this IGN?

>>379776801
sonic 2 is garbage

Why do people act like Freedom Planet is a good successor to Sonic

You can walk up walls for christ's sake

>>379781858
I takes a quality dip in the latter half but why do you think it's garbage?

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>>379780971
>>379781519

Lost World doesn't give you much to desire with the poorly mapped controls, bland story, and sometimes rough level design, but stick with it. I found my red ring play through pretty enjoyable after better understanding the controls the second time around. The game is still pretty hard and the deaths are cheap, but I find it to be a decent challenge. It isn't Souls fair where if you fuck up it's your own fault, but the repetition reaps some reward in the form of Super Sonic for instance.

ITT: sonic opinions are shouted into the void

>>379781368
They did this in sonic unleashed and people said it was to frustrating because they dont replay games. They expect to be masters the first time and get mad when they are garbage

Sonic Adventure Battle: 2 was good.

>>379782139
bad, boring level design and awkward platforming. 3 is way better

>>379779843
You've got a very good point about the rolling and the physics should always be a key part, but the way you're putting it makes it seem just a little too limited in scope. He can be allowed to do more as a character, stuff like tricks and even the homing attack in 3d feels more like an extension to that, and I just get the impression you're not ok with them because it's more about the speed than the hog. Sonic Mania looks fantastic though.

>>379782139
Incoming that silly copypasta.

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>>379776801
>Sonic was never good
I beg to differ

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>Taxman Sonic 1 & 2 are stuck on Mobile.
Why not just take the 5 seconds to port them to PC and Console?

>>379782540
Is there a difference between Taxman's port and the original game?

>>379781858
>>379782139
>>379782338

Git gud. If you can't beat Sonic 2, a literally baby's game then why are you still playing vidya?

>>379782219
This is ultimately why people shit on most Sonic games in general actually. It looks like a platformer so people play it the same as others, when it has a unique skill floor and skill ceiling.

>>379782709
Fuck, beat me to it.

>>379782670
I believe they are remastered, and Sonic 2 has the Hidden Palace recreation.

Does Sonic 1 have the ability to have spin dash disabled?

>>379782680
it's not difficult, just bad

>>379782670
>Widescreen
>60 fps
>Tails and Knuckles in Sonic 1
>Hidden Palace Zone in Sonic 2
>Time trial mode.

>>379776801
>I'm gonna whine and call them shitty because I never went fast like the game said I could, because I was too shit at the game to build up any speed
>which was part of the design philosophy, that being the better a player is the more speed they can gain as their reward for being competent and knowing the level layout

>Sonic was never good

Yes, yes, yes, we get it - you're a faggot.

>>379782709
>Could figure this out as a kid
>There wasn't even spin dash in Sonic 1 to give an instant speed boost to clear it like that

>>379782828
Why is it bad? Details. Don't be more of a lazy faggot than you already are.

>>379782859
>>379782826
>>379782670
Forgot Spindash in Sonic 1.

>>379782709

Anyone got that Lost World gif where the reviewer playing just stops dead on a collapsing platform?

>>379782859
Huh. That is a good question, then

I guess Taxman's been too busy with Mania. Hopefully he does port it over some day.

>>379782947
lol i bet you had an aneurysm on Carnival Night Zone's barrel puzzle

>>379782951
already posted

this is 4chan, if you want a dissertation blog post on sonic 2's many faults try reddit

I alawys loved how it looked but couldn't be arsed to play it for longer than 20 minutes. I only tried 1 & 2 as a kid.

>>379782859

Shit, I'd go happily pay for & go through sonic 1 & 2 again if it was genuinely 60fps.

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>>379782354
On the contrary, I think that addition of physics, especially to 3D Sonic, opens the doors for a much larger scope! Sonic's speed should be a byproduct of the physics and the player's ability to utilize them.

Fangames such as Sonic Utopia and Green Hill Paradise, while rough around the edges, show that physics can turn 3D Sonic into more of a Tony Hawk Pro Skater sort of experience.
In this way, tricks and homing attack combos would fit in excellently under this model.

In short, the thing that killed Sonic wasn't green eyes. It was this.

>>379783105
>leddit boogeyman
So you're a casual who can't handle starting over when he loses all his lives. That's all you had to say.

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So am I the only one who's (at the very least) cautiously optimistic about Sonic Mania and Forces?

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>>379782709
I like to think that this is just them testing out the physics to make sure that they couldn't "Sonic 4" their way around the loop.
Perhaps that's just me being optimistic...

I've never understood Sonic games. Supposedly, the whole point is to go fast through the level, but if that's the case, why are the levels designed to punish you for doing so?

>>379783105
>Discussing videogames!? Absolutely not!

>>379783379
As long as the physics in Mania aren't Sonic 4 nonsense than no. As for Forces, it's literally a 50/50 crap shoot.

>>379783080
I passed it on my own, but it wasn't intuitive.

>>379783501
>Supposedly, the whole point is to go fast through the level, but if that's the case, why are the levels designed to punish you for doing so?

Fucking THIS. Sonic games are retarded.

>>379783501
It;s a plat former with speed. If you know what you're doing and memorize the level design you can speed run your way through every level.

>>379783379
I think Mania is legit gonna be on the same level as Sonic 1 and 2. I think Forces will be objectively a good time, if not amazing.

>>379783293
>needing continues
what on earth does that have to do with bad level design and platforming

sonic 2 fans everyone

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>>379776801
I enjoyed the classic games and generations.

>>379783501

are you retarded?

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>>379783501

>Why do races have curves and aren't a straight line?

>>379783501
Because it's a fucking game. You have to find your way around the level design, enemies, and enemy placement. It is like if you were asking why do racing games designed to punish you for going fast with its curvy track design, other vehicles, or what ever else is on the track.

Why should I care about someones opinion on the series if there is a high chance Sonic 3D Blast is older than them.

>>379781368

This anon is correct.

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>>379783764
?The level design is bad because you have to learn things and use your brain instead of going fast because that's what Sonic is why should the game punish me for wanting to go fast

>>379783501
Because you have to BEAT the level.

>>379783945
My argument against that is that the game is shit at all of that. You have to move frustratingly slow in order to avoid obstacles, and the controls are floaty as fuck. I remember struggling all the time to properly jump on a platform without overshooting or undershooting. Especially under water.

It's one thing to not want to feel like a Mario game, but Mario games had really fucking solid platforming and a good pace. Sonic wanted to go fast, but they didn't change how you platform to compensate, they just made fucking mario levels that never end instead.

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>>379783501
>>379783626

The original games were designed around physics, not "gotta go fast." You see, back then there was a distinct difference between Sonic's MARKETING and how the games were actually designed. It was the same way that none of Mario's games are actually about him being Italian, or him being a plumber. It's just his character.

It wasn't until Sega started believing in their own memes that the series started going to shit. This is why folks like you two unfortunately exist: you go back to try to play the original games expecting them to adhere to the "gotta go fast" ideologies of today and notice the disconnect.

You then conclude that it's the PAST games that are wrong for not adhering to TODAY'S perception of what Sonic is all about while I believe that the opposite is true. I don't blame you for thinking this way, but I think that you should be made aware of it.

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>>379783501
The levels aren't punishing you for going fast. You're being punished because you suck at the fucking game, loser.

>>379784313
>You have to move frustratingly slow in order to avoid obstacle

No you don't, get fucking good. I do concede that the older games could really use widescreen but it is never to a point that it becomes frustrating to play.

>>379777447
Kinda this.

I always thought the Chemical Plant Zone boss was the hardest in Sonic 2 besides the final boss. I was very easy to get hit and fall into the water, or even just get taken off guard by robotnik moving and then accidentally bounce off him into the water.

>>379783501
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCwfDB14RqM

watch this to like the 25 minute mark

Ok, do people actually think levels having enemies and traps is bad level design? I know /v/ users probably have the lowest IQs out of the userbase across all boards but this is retarded. We get it, the games were marketed in a way that made it seem like it was only hold right to win speedrun game. If you replay the games and treat the originals as platforming games you'll hopefully understand that the multilayered levels are actually pretty intelligently designed given that maintaining your momentum will grant you with easier access to upper routes and hidden items. Not to mention that's it's pretty unique in general since it's a platforming game where your entire movement is based on your momentum. But I guess if the games just aren't your thing that makes sense.

>>379784313
Sonic isn't floaty, he has a high jump but he has weight and you can really feel it especially when you land from a jump on an incline.
>You have to move frustratingly slow in order to avoid obstacles
> I remember struggling all the time to properly jump on a platform without overshooting or undershooting.
Yeah, if the player sucked like you.

Is a Sonic game too hard for people these days? Can't even adapt, and /v/ wonders why video games are "going to shit".

>>379783282
Yeah, the physics use was in there already a little bit but more emphasis being placed on it, keeping the moves he has and then adding more that let you play around with (like Advance 2 tricks which should be in ALL of the games) would be a great recipe for a really fun game where you constantly improve and find new ways to get through levels.

I've seen Sonic Utopia's trailer and it looks like a very strong base (should maybe have homing attack), but I think the level design is a very big piece of the puzzle. A THPS style thing would be fun for a little while; SA1 and to an extent Advance 3 actually did this concept in a Sonic game really well I feel with the maps, but it lends itself much better to having obstacles and areas and goals you can see and explore and overcome. I know it's just the engine trailer but the level's way too open.

As for boosters yeah overreliahce on them is a problem that you really see when watching. Some are ok but it's a free powerup almost, leading to less thought.

Unpopular opinion but I don't know why the first Adventure game is praised when it's compared to 06. They are both buggy unpredictable messes with bad voice acting, shit cutscenes, awkward camera, etc.

There's nothing Adventure does better than 06. Adventure 2 is a bit more polished but that game has its own problems that make it pretty shit.

>>379783282
You realise those were introduced in like Sonic 2 right?

>>379785171
Pretty much >>379782750

>>379784769
I actually agree with this. Sonic 1 sucks as most of its design goes against the original intention. Green Hill Zone? It's great. It's fluid, rewarding and has varied terrain that makes every step influence your momentum in some way.

But the moment you get to Marble Zone, everything goes to shit. It becomes blocky, dangerous and Sonic's natural abilities now become a deadly foe rather than an exhilarating ally. Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 all refine things to make Sonic a much more rewarding game to play.

>>379785234
This is why I think Green Hill Paradise, while a bit rougher control-wise has better level design. There are actual paths and things to do within the level, encouraging players to go through it multiple times in different ways.

>>379785401
Very true! However, they weren't used as a replacement for level design as they are in the Modern era. You'll seldom see a Boost Pad right in front of a loop in the Classic games, for example. Back then, loops weren't just a visual spectacle. They were obstacles that had to be traversed as well as tools to gain more speed if you were clever enough.

>>379785321
Question: did you play Adventure, or Adventure DX?

>>379785769
>You'll seldom see a Boost Pad right in front of a loop in the Classic games
Actually that happened a fair amount in areas like chemical plant.

>>379777874
I can only read so much until I feel the need to break these circle jerks. To the degree that Sonic 06 is broken this is just factually wrong. Sonic 06 is a gigantic pile of bad decisions, broken mechanics and just plain bad development.

Sonic 06 being terribly bad isn't just a meme, its that bad. Sequences that are supposed to work one way just don't and others are just terribly put together like when you have to figure out who the general or whatever is or the loading screens that take you to a 2 second conversation into another loading screen.

Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 at least function at a level that they can be competently played.

>>379786114
Yeah, Adventure 1 and 2's problems are a result of the time in the sense that they hadn't gotten a full grasp of how to transition Sonic into 3D. They still don't if I'm honest.

But 06.
06 is pretty much the culmination of every single possible problem that could have arisen from the adventure style of gameplay and only serves to make it look like Sonic Team hasn't learned a thing since the Adventure games.

>>379784313
Real question, why do you think Mario's platforming is better? Can you actually put it into words, or is it more likely that you liked that game so you use it as the baseline for anything platformy rather than consider each as their own beast with their own design and intentional feel? After all you're saying the levels are like Mario (not even true) but Sonic doesn't move like Mario, and it's hard to jump onto things because of judging speed (also not true), then you even complain about (you personally) having to go slow to avoid things (which is an intentional learning tool used by the design, go at a speed you can handle) yet you're fine with that on Mario.

>>379783560
>As long as the physics in Mania aren't Sonic 4 nonsense than no.

Have you seen any gameplay?

>>379786487
>They still don't if I'm honest.
They've had over twenty fucking years to get it right and they still can't fucking get it.

>>379776801
The classic games were mostly pretty good, but Sonic has never been on the level of Mario in terms of gameplay and level design. Killer music in those early games though.

>>379781664
You should be ashamed for trying to shitpost using Rhythm Heaven

Sonic truly was never great. The entire concept defeats itself.

>>379788593
You still think that Sonic was all about going fast don't you.

Sonic is literally built around people autistic enough to sit down and memorize an entire level in order to really appreciate the game and its mechanics.

>>379785769
I might look up Green Hill Paradise just to see how it looks, but it's interesting because it shows how there really isn't much in the way of them getting it right, and there never has been.

Also gotta chime in that while for the most part Marble Zone had too much emphasis on patient platforming and too little opportunity to apply skill to go fast, the rest of the levels, even Labyrinth Zone had a bunch of it and were pretty well designed. At the end of the day though it was their first attempt at the concept and they had to pin it down but it was a great start.
>>379786487
>>379787191
Really, as I said they've been on the cusp of it (twice even), but instead of fixing the actual issues of the bad glitches and whatever they throw everything out and think they have to pull something new out. Except they halfass that one too, and repeat the process without taking a look at what really worked. It's an irritatingly common practice among Japanese or really all developers, though I'd dare to say the constant exaggeration and shitting on Sonic games might encourage it a bit more in their eyes.

Sonic is fun, but it's not Mario.

They need to slow the games down and not make the levels like spaghetti.
Have big open areas akin to Mario Galaxy or Tony Hawk where the path is visible to get through yet the player can play around.

Then have small, fast linear segments to connect the bigger areas all together.

>>379782709
I don't get it. They should have had enough speed to clear the loop those two times when running... Did they let go of the D-pad or press the opposite direction or something? Why would anyone do that?

>>379782161
>The game is still pretty hard and the deaths are chea

This a joke?

The game was a cakewalk. I did my red ring run during my first playthrough.

The reward isn't that great considering I have to play the same shitty game again in order to use it.

>>379788732
Just make sure you play the "Final Mix" version of the game. It makes several improvements that the original release didn't have, even though the original release is what gets shared the most after the Game Grumps played it.

>>379788716
No wonder I find the games so meh, just recently I just played sonic 2 up to oil ocean and it felt like I was just going through the motions, there was no hook and the boss battles are garbage too also not a fan of the ring system

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>>379776801
You're right. The music is great tho.

>>379781368

/thread

>>379784769
https://youtu.be/dDfGlc1f3LQ

You can also watch this video, because it's shorter and his voice is a lot less grating.

>SEGA is gaining the reputation of a modern, consumer friendly company
>star in a game where you can finally make OCs to cash in on the decades old autistic furry fandom, guaranteed cash cow
>star in a genuinely good game that succeeds in going back to the series' roots to bring back core fans, guarenteed cash cow
>the future is looking bright for Sonic the Hedgehog
>but then...
>that FUCKING bobcat swoops in and steals it all away from me
>hype for Sonic Forces and Sonic Mania die the moment Bubsy: The Woolies Strike Back is revealed
>Forces and Mania don't even collectively break 500K sales
>SEGA goes under
>Woolies Strike Back sells 6 million copies
>Bubsy goes on to become an invincible mascot and a staple of gaming, he even crosses over with Mario several times
>while Sonic the Hedgehog fades into obscurity with Jazz Jackrabbit, Awesome Possum, Barack Obama, etc
It's just not fair.

>>379791368
Stop shilling your shit channel

>>379786114
>Sonic 06 being terribly bad isn't just a meme
No one is saying 06 was good

>>379777447
>Because if it were the games then the franchise wouldn't have staggered for over a decade
The games used to be good and now are shit. Your theory assumes all the Sonic games are the same when they're vastly different. Even then it could easily be other factors like stagnation.

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>>379785401
>>379785886
>chemical plant boosters prove Sonic always had automation argument
every time

>>379784769
This guy is fairly on point but all throughout his part about there not being enough warning about enemies the video is showing constant telegraphs in it's design he isn't even noticing, like the Starlight Zone fans. He hasn't even mentioned the ring system which is there for exactly what he's talking about.

>>379792407
nvm lets hear what he says

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You guys don't understand that Sonic's main failure is that his visual design is outdated and, to be quite honest with you, a bit cringey.
What Sonic needs to be is more animal-like, but also easy to relate to. Get rid of the cocky attitude and give him a more wide-eyed and vulnerable look. A blank canvas for the player to self-insert to. Not a '90s marketing product, but a genuinely interesting character.

>>379792675

Maybe but what you posted was artsy bullshit and would ensure I never touch Sonic again.

File: Improved Sonic the Hedgehog level design.webm (2MB, 900x506px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 900x506px

>>379792675
The whole ''speed is king'' approach is inherently flawed in that it makes it easier to lose control of the game and thus make the player lose his/her connection to the character.
By slowing the game down and letting you utilize interesting puzzle elements, you give players more time to form a bond with Sonic. Plus, it allows you to craft focused gameplay sections where the number of actions and how you execute them are less important than how you approach an obstacle.
By having Sonic carry around items for puzzle use offers a much more intriguing gameplay experience.

>>379792975
>>379792675
Please stop reposting horrible ideas from Youtube.

>>379792178
The top one you hold right and win

The bottom you hold right and something else pushes you along the way, but you still win

Whats the point of this pic?

>>379792975
>Making Sonic into some generic puzzle game
Why

>>379792675
You guys don't understand that Kirby's main failure is that his visual design is outdated and, to be quite honest with you, a bit cringey.
What Kirby needs is to be more rubberhose, but he also needs more edge and attitude. Get rid of the badge eyes and blank expression, and give him an in-your-face cocky mug and a body that's easier to make exaggerated poses with. A blank canvas for the player to self-insert to is fucking boring. We need a 90's marketing product to be an interesting character, not something soft, simple, and minimalist.

File: sonic wait.gif (13KB, 45x60px) Image search: [Google]

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>le sonic is gotta go fast meme
Did everyone watch the cartoon first and thought a cartoon characterization should be applied to the video game?

>>379792675
>>379792975
Back to /sthg/ with you.

>>379779324
Bet you didnt even played half of those nintendopony

>>379793345
I see what I did there

File: 1362251192784.jpg (106KB, 486x400px) Image search: [Google]

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>>379793436
Maybe it's not Sonic that has got to go fast, but the player..?

>>379777447
I thought he was a dick and I could see he was a sad attempt to compete with Mario even then.

No disrespect.

>>379776801

The Genesis trilogy are solid games. Not better than Mario, but still one of the greats of it's time.

>>379793129
That the top is a small part of one level while the bottom is bigger part of most levels? It looked obvious to me.

>>379777447

the atmosphere of sega games is fuckign lame, what are you talkign about?

all the way from sonics terrible voice acting and shocking personality all the way to the shitty rock guitars and gross vocals that seem to accompany every level

sonic is lame

/endopinion

>>379776801

You know you die someday, right? Go outside

>>379793649
>Atmosphere
This is one of those meaningless words people throw around when they have absolutely nothing substantial to say.

>>379793907

atmosphere
ˈatməsfJə/Submit
noun

the pervading tone or mood of a place, situation, or creative work.

>>379793129
The top one you always have control and the forces are natural, and the booster is a situational gimmick for one stage. Their effect propels Sonic using natural motion.

The bottom one forces you through by automation and takes away control, and the boosters are a very common object in every stage. Their effect sets Sonic speed, even if it makes him slower, and propels Sonic using artificial motion.

>>379792652
Ok naw apart from the bosses he's saying it's mainly bad cause other games and special stages, and the sheer number of rings make that not really a thing, plus the design still has plenty of telegraphing. Making it so each time you get hit rings disappear faster or it takes longer until you can pick them up again would be a better way to change it.

>>379782139
Not that Anon, but

>That pit in Mystic Caves

It's just one part but holy SHIT what a bad fucking idea. Actually, Mystic Caves as a whole was pretty Garbo when I think about it.

>>379794648
That pit was removed in the 2013 port of sonic 2 on mobile and instead leads to hidden palace zone

>>379795062
I meant the spikes in the pit not the pit itself

Sonic isn't bad. The early games are not "poorly designed and need to be played slowly not to get hit". The game is quite forgiving if you make mistakes and there are plenty of warnings to prepare. The camera isn't the best in the first 2 games and the lack of the spindash in the first game hurts it, but the devs learned from their past mistakes as they continued on to the later games. The game heavily plays with its physics vs just its platforming. The game isn't Mario; you shouldn't play it like Mario.

The only really bad thing about the first Sonic game was the unreasonably slow starting movement. If it was just a little faster even levels like Marble and Labyrinth Zone would be more enjoyable to play.

>>379776801

First level of every Sonic level is the best. Only 3 & K were able to keep that quality consistent. Prove me wrong.

>>379796326
>Chemical Plant Zone
nice try.