MGSV ending dialogue between Miller and Ocelot makes no sense

Dont try to make sense of it.

I use to think this conversation is sometime after you rescue Miller. Miller taking advantage of the fact that Venoms still rusty and thinks he is Big Boss, and acknowledges that the two sons are out there.

>>379676261
Who cares? The game was trash and the ruse is horseshit.

>>379677337
>the ruse is horseshit
mmmmmm

>>379676261
its a mgs game of course the story is tonally inconsistent nonsensical trash.
Just pretend its a shitty b movie and enjoy the game play.

>>379676261
It's left up in the air whether Venom is still completely loyal to big boss or if he resents being used.

In the end it doesn't matter, Solid kills both.

>>379676261
>Why would Ocelot even say the two sons would become rivals when just moments ago he said they'd both be gunning for Big Boss
Hmmm why would Ash and Gary become rivals when they are ultimately gunning for the same thing?

Miller was just really butthurt and would help anyone take down Big Boss at that point. Ended up being Solid Snake in zanzibarland on the codec.

>>379676261
the mgs storyline sounds like it was written by a 12 year old with a military consultant.

>>379676261
you should know by now the entire game after okb zero is all fluff and nonsense that konami pieced together of the cutscenes kojimble made before he was fired. the jeep ride is effectively the dotted cut here line.

All you need to know is this:
>quiet = chico

>>379677492
MGS always makes sense except for some minor retcons though, it's only MGSV that fucked shit up

>>379677701
Because Ash and Gary are gunning for status as the best trainer, and thus their goals are mutually exclusive as only one of them can hold that title. Assuming both Solid and Liquid wanted Big Boss dead, it wouldn't matter who actually pulls the trigger as long as he dies. In fact, it would make more sense for them to work together to take him down than trying to sabotage each other and potentially prevent either one of them from killing him, as their goals are mutually inclusive; they both want to see the exact same end result which is the death of Big Boss. In other words Gary and Ash's relationship is competitive in nature while Solid and Liquid's is (or rather should logically be) cooperative in nature.
What an awful analogy. Kill yourself.
>>379677170
Ocelot was already self-hypnotized by then though.
The only thing that could kinda make sense is if it happens shortly before Miller's capture in Afghanistan, but even then it wouldn't make sense why Miller wouldn't just tell Venom he'd been deceived by the real Big Boss.
>>379677868
That actually kinda makes sense, although why wouldn't the cutoff be at Skullface's death instead?

>>379676261
>How would strengthening Venom, who fully supports Big Boss, help defeat Big Boss?
Venom and Miller were no longer devoted to Big Boss. In the ending, Venom was happy to be a part of BB's plan at first. Then he flips the tape, a time skip occurs, and now we see he's mad as fuck at his own reflection (BB essentially).

And as for the whole talk about sons, it's not like Miller/Ocelot could read the future and know exactly which son they'll support. All Ocelot implied was that he'll side with the son that's on the opposite side of Cipher. That son ended up being Liquid, which leaves Miller (had past connections with Cipher) with Solid who was technically on the Cipher's side (without even knowing) for a while later in the series.

>>379676261
>that leaves just solid
And solidus, there were three sons of big boss.

>>379678798
>Ocelot was already self-hypnotized by then though.
Doublethink, son

>>379678798
Lquid was pretty pissed he didn't get to kill Big Boss, he felt Snake denied him his revenge for being the so-called inferior clone

>>379678798
We don't really know when exactly Ocelot self-hypnotizes himself. Miller wouldn't tell him because he said he'd keep playing his "role" to support Venom. Plus I like to listen carefully to audio, he walks away having his cane/crutch and leg prosthetic, so it convinces me that it's possibly right after his rescue.

>>379678825
>and now we see he's mad as fuck at his own reflection (BB essentially)
The reflection at first is of a Demon, it doesn't become Big Boss until after he smashes it. Combined with the smirk he makes when the tape says "you're Big Boss", I took it to mean just the opposite. The Demon represents himself, his fears, regrets and anger, and he smashes it not in protest but in agreement; he doesn't need his own feelings to finish the mission, he just needs to be Big Boss; hence Venom seeing a completed picture of the real Big Boss in the mirror before he walks off to fight Solid. Keep in mind Venom was under no obligation to do it. He could've told Solid they'd both been played like a fiddle by the real Big Boss and the two of them could've teamed up to take him down, but he didn't. He finished the mission because he wanted to.
>>379679078
Solidus wasn't created until a while after MGSV, and even if he was his development was secret Miller would have had no way of knowing about it.

>>379680459
But then why would Ocelot even feel the need to hypnotize himself in the first place when Miller can play it straight flawlessly? Unless Miller volunteered to be hynotized too, but that wouldn't make much sense either.

>>379678312
Lmao nigga u funny

>>379680885
>solidus wasn't created until a while after mgsv
He was created in '72 just like the other two, even with accelerated aging there's no way he was born and raised raiden into a child soldier in the 5 years between '84 and '89

>>379682236
Nonetheless his existance would be unknown to Miller

>>379680885
>He could've told Solid they'd both been played like a fiddle by the real Big Boss and the two of them could've teamed up to take him down,
When has it ever worked this way? Friendlies fist fight Snake to the death for no strategic reason like every 5 minutes.

>>379683456
Because Venom would have to be an absolute retard not to if he disdained Big Boss, it's dumb enough that he'd have stuck around with him to that point in the first place
He'd have literally no motive for fighting Solid, Gray Fox was at least repaying a debt to BB or something in MG2 and deranged in MGS1, and Ocelot was just doing it for shits and giggles since he planned on having foxdie kill him anyway to complete his master plan of destroying the patriots
And as for Liquid, he's just a petty simpleminded douchebag and his goals, albeit retarded, were clear as day

Story in MGSV was non-existent.

Twist was absolutely batshit retarded, even for Kojima standards.

Still better than MGS4 on gameplay alone though, MGS4 is irredeemable in every aspect.

>>379684280
It wasn't much of a twist. They weren't very subtle about it. Big Boss doesn't have a horn or mechanical arm.

>>379684504
mecha big boss in snake's revenge might

>>379684054
Yeah because Venom is a picture of mental health.

>Gray Fox was at least repaying a debt to BB or something
When Snake asks if he was doing it because of that he says he's not and he's just doing it because he doesn't know any way to live besides fighting. Venom is on a further Cyborg Ninja level of being so fucked up he literally can't do anything else and is just as likely to get a boner for fighting BB's clone to the death as anything.

>>379684504
This

>>379680885
Your interpretation of that scene can make sense taken on it's own. But with the other information that we're given, it makes more sense to assume that Venom punching that mirror means he's against Big Boss at that time. Miller's talk about turning Big Boss' phantom against him, Ocelot's warning about there being room for only one Big Boss, and Big Boss' right hand man (Gray Fox) being captured by Venom all supports that.

>>379684504
>It wasn't much of a twist. They weren't very subtle about it.

You're right, but Kojima definitely intended to be a twist. That's how bad it is. You know he thought he was incredibly clever with the note revealing your name at the end.

He's a jack m8.

>>379678312
No. It doesn't. Big Boss knows Boss better than anyone.. The fact she lets him win is redundant.. he finds out what really happens then repeats the same mistakes she did. The sins of Boss were here unquestioning loyalty. Her refusal to think for herself and the out right fact is she could of and should of killed Big Boss her, 'son.'

BB. Literally finds out everything. Says reee I'll finish her dream. Because he's unquestionabl loyal. Gets sent down the same path of traitor to murrica. Has multiple chances to kill his 'sons' and doesn't. All to complete a 'dream' That was nothing more than a dream in the first place. Literally knows the fucking future refuses to do anything about it. Then tries to take the credit after his son sorta kinda finishes the job. It's full blown retardation. It makes no sense at all. It's completely convoluted. It's just made up as it goes no end goal.. No big pay off.. a shitty fight between to old men that's the pay off all those hours spent. Wasted. Pointless. And people STILL act like we didn't know from the first fucking trailer of MGS V that it wasn't the REAL, BB. Knowing that the first BB, Solid fights is a fake.. oh lawd I'm so angry that they gave that nameless lackey a place in the series.. like he deserved because he was good enough to convince people he was the REAL, BB.