How did they make a better game than Diablo 3 AND make it free?

>>379613586
>pic unrelated

>>379613586
its not that hard making a game better than diablo 3

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This is the best ARPG on the market at the moment. Path of Reused Assets is a joke.

>>379613586
Loyal fan base mostly. Though they Jew you out to buy more stash tabs because the game drops waaaaaay too much shit. Apperently like 20% of the player base actually buys microtransactions.

>>379613958
if you have only one build 4 tabs are more than enough.

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>>379613586
>What is Second Mover's Advantage

Well, that's not exactly a tall order. Although despite these odds, the picture isn't even related.

>>379613945
>MH
>Good

Oh you were kidding. True

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>>379613586
>better game than diablo 3
all of the games out there are better than diablo 3

battleborn is better than diablo 3

>>379613586

they didn't have to dumb it down to the point of no return to sell more copies to the casual audience.

While Diablo 3 is lacking in other areas, it is the only one that isn't a complete borefest to play due to the destructive nature of the combat.

Demons are blown to bits, sheared from their flesh in midair, objects explode everywhere etc.

It's hard to enjoy other ARPGs after such visceral feedback.

I've been looking for a fun RPG to play with my buddy. I'll have to give this a go.

>>379613586

i haven't played in awhile but the entire game is ruined by the horrible rubber-banding. It's literally the only time I ever died and made any sort of hardcore build a waste of time.

Also the skill tree is 90% filler and most paths you take just end up a broken character that can't progress

>>379615374

so flashy graphics are all you need?

the mediocre combat/gameplay, skill sets, lack of character building, the fact that only 15% of skills are useful, the shit story, the settings mimicking D2...

but the monsters explode.

why not just watch videos of things exploding on youtube, and save your money?

>>379615794
No, what I'm saying is that if combat is the meat of your game (as it tends to be in ARPGs) then you better make sure it is satisying.

>>379616328

combat in poe was pretty satisfying to me. at higher levels you don't even see monsters explode anymore its all about grinding at the fastest possible rate

also poe has live events which are more interesting than anything D3 has done before

>>379613586
>PoE is free meme

Quick: what is the best ARP/diablo clone

there's no skills in this game, is there?

>>379619263
Grim Dawn.

>>379613586
its more like try to play now. sure i guess if you are a fag autist you can claim its free free. But if you want to do end game, u fucking better buy some stash tabs.

>Inb4 muh SSF

Yeah right...

Anyways, D3 is watered out shit stuck in focus group hell. Seriously, stop doing focus groups interaction designers. I fucking took interaction design in uni and it was mostly shit. This is why PoE succeded.

It's basically an improved D2

>>379619375
Grim Dawn is pretty good, but no, I've sunk thrice as much time into PoE. It's the best there is right now

>>379620709
PoE is good, but it's far more multiplayer oriented, I'd say Grim Dawn is better if you mostly are a solo player

Free games are only free if you consider your time you need to spend on grinding buyable stuff worthless.

>>379619363
it uses skill gems, you basically build your tree around them. yuge customizability in tree and around gems, since you link ur skill gems to support gems that have different modifiers, like plain dmg, more projectiles, life leech, etc etc

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>>379613586
Sign up now and buy EARLY ACCESS to the 3.0 beta program for only $480.

>>379620835
but lad, in no content are you required to play in group. In fact, for shaper and uber atziri its a liability.

If you want to race to lvl 100 then sure, i guess, but i never was interested in that.

It is also only online, but you can play entirely solo

>>379613586
By actually being vets of D2 who loved that game to bits

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>>379620958
$30*
Some of these armors are fucking atrocious tho. What were they fucking thinking.

>>379613586
magic and this >>379613795

>>379620958
the cheapest is 30 bucks bro, so dont make it sound like it costs 480. Tho, i would never pay to beta test a companies game. The outlaw costume does look good tho

>>379621552
>>379621418
Kiwi marketing department on damage control.

>>379621686
Why would they have to damage control over cosmetics?

>>379621686
>These Cosmetics are shit
>Lol, damage control from the developers!
?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZnI-8Ki0Eg
tfw kinda want it

this genre died with diablo 2

there's been a few good games since then but they never innovated but rather just added a bunch of gimmicks or different ways to level up

the genre has incredibly shallow combat and it's all about loot and min/maxing

>>379622045
The weapon effect is pure shit, but it's one of the few decent armors.

>>379622416
>this genre died
>PoE very popular, constant updates, growing
>D3 still existing, grim dawn doing alright, we also had torchlight 2

>>379613586
>PoE
>FREE

>>379622567

those games are all copies of each other with different gimmicks, the genre has died in innovation is what i meant

there's only so many ways you can dress up the same game formula before people get bored of it

>>379622784
Seems like they're not getting bored of it

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>>379622567
>very popular

>>379622862
>playing PoE on Steam
for what purpose, only retards would do that. Every single person I know is on standalone.

>>379622784
>different gimmicks
>died in innovation

>>379622856

the people addicted to that type of game will never be bored but just look at how few of these games are released every year. people played one of these games they've played them all

>>379622416
shh you can't say such things in ARPG thread
the autists who like these games don't want them to change. they love clicking shit and pushing hotkeys, it gets their dicks hard.

they will never want an ARPG with actual combat or a camera angle other than isometric. they just want D2 with new gimmicks, new loots, and new graphics.

>>379622953
>b-but secret chinese stream viewers
reminder that if you trippled the cuncurrent players that it would just compete with an unfinished africa simulator from the developer of garry's mod

>>379622958
>warp to town through a portal or signpost
>level up in linear tree or a map
>currency is gold or items
>wow such genre breaking differences

>>379623225
ok?
Thankfully PoE is not an unfinished p2p early access multiplayer survival scam like most of Steam's top played games.

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>>379613945
i really hope it's a bait

>>379623361
>more people playing the pc port of a 3.5-year old gta game

>>379623135

but if they did that it'd be like dark souls and no longer a diablo clone and you'd end up with deeper combat like being able to fucking dodge or jump

>>379620945
>huge customizability
>nothing but +10 elemental damage, +10% shield, +10% health across the board

Path of Shit cucks are hilarious

>>379623571
shhh we don't want fun or good gameplay
we want to click on things endlessly like we're playing a high octane point&click adventure game while spamming the same couple hotkeys

I mean, does Dark Souls, with tons of enemies, spells, abilities, weapons, play styles actually sound fun? Borderlands with medieval stuff instead of guns?
how does that sound more fun than clicking on shit all day to watch numbers go up? my favorite games ever are D2 and cookie clicker, best games in the ARPG genre

>>379623815
you literally never played this game and it's painfully obvious

>>379623991

If that were the case I'd rather play fucking Dark Souls. Genres exist for a reason you know. Would you fucking like it if CoD suddenly had dating sim features and fucking skill trees?

>>379624261
call of booty when

>>379624261
>Would you fucking like it if CoD suddenly had dating sim features and fucking skill trees?
hmm, the same old solid CoD gameplay but now with more content and features?
gee that sounds awful....

just like D2 without clicking on things based gameplay and isometric camera. why would I want something new and good? D2 was perfect back then, and it's still great!

>>379623571
>deeper combat like being able to fucking dodge or jump
you already have to dodge in PoE, infact most bosses require it so you don't get hit by their hard hits.

>>379613586
has the new fucking act been released yet??

>>379624443

New doesn't always mean good. Look at the newer CoDs. They try to innovate shit and in the end, they still go back to the classics. You cant fucking beat the classics.

>>379624509
by dodge he means you click on the ground next to you to dodge the devastating attack with the 9 second windup

>>379624684
>9 second windup
I wish.

>>379624684
>9 second windup
very few are actually long other then the true 1 hit kills.

>>379624684
Have you even done core malachai yet?
How about uber atziri?
Shaper?

Well anon, have you?
On SC or HC?

>>379624669
>Look at the newer CoDs
what with all that wall running, double jumps, sliding, and lots of other cool shit?
yea that's horrible
the old CoDs where you literally can only run and shoot on the ground were so much better

fuck new things, the classics man, that's where it's at! remember DOOM? that's such good gameplay. how it aims for you, and the only skill involved in the whole game is dodging piss slow projectiles?
the classics baby!

>>379624883
>>379624892
>ignoring the clicking part
It may not be 9 seconds, but you're still just clicking on the ground instead of actually controlling your character and freehand moving where you want.

WASD/analog sticks > clicking where to go

>>379624942
It was.

That's why the new CoD is now going back to WW2 because that future shit was killing the franchise.

https://youtu.be/ZFpZJrZESbg?t=28
reminder that this is what path of exile players do for three months before starting all over and making the same character from scratch

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>>379625064

>>379625205
>thinking they won't keep the slide
if CoD goes back to bare bones walk/run and shoot thing, it'll die even faster. At least now it has a fun movement system. Sure console kiddies hate it, but fuck them. They are irrelevant outside of money flow.

>>379624162
character customization comes from a combination of skill gems, support gems and unique items. The passive tree is just there to give you passive damage and survivability increases

>>379625064
How is clicking to move your character away not controlling your character though?

>>379625064
>If it isn't like dark souls it is wrong
Nice meme

>>379622953
Why wouldn't I play on steam?

>>379613958
20% is a lot.

>>379622567
Definitely dead. Literally videogame equiv of pong at this point.
>Make Pong over 12 years ago.
>It's groundbreaking and revolutionary.
>A few companies try to duplicate it over the years, but somehow make strictly worse versions.
>Finally developer releases Pong 2 over a decade later with only a few minor changes.
>Everyone buys it, and then quickly drops it within a month, and within a couple years (despite all the fixes and patches) the playerbase has dwindled down to basically nothing.
>Other developers from original Pong dev team make Ping, a copy of Pong. Not much different than Pong or Pong 2 and suffers a similar fate to Pong 2 as it hemmorages players.
>"THESE GAMES AREN'T AS GOOD AS PONG! THAT'S WHY NOBODY CARES!",
>All them are the same: piss-easy Iso-loot action RPG that you eventually break with a build or equipment to use 1-2 overpowered skills as you repeat the same handfuls of runs, instances, and bosses to quickly grind loot.
>The truth is that A LOT changed in those 13 or so years from Diablo 2 to Diablo 3/PoE for arpgs, and they're basically antiquated garbage at this point.

>>379625441
thats not true.

keystones for one.

>>379625460
Not him and that's a retarded argument to make but I don't think there's any argument against the fact that wasd/stick control is better than click to move. Especially in a game like poe where spot second reactions and decision can kill or save your character, click to move severely handicaps your ability to control your character

>>379625775
What keystones aren't just a passive increase to either your offense or defense

>>379625460
>How is clicking to move your character away not controlling your character though?
it is controlling it, the same way as using a racing wheel would be controlling your character
it's just a truly horrible way of doing it.
WASD/analog stick is infinitely more accurate
using click to move essentially handicaps you

>>379625917
blood magic.

>>379625917
Vaal Pact, Essence Reaver, Avatar of Fire, Chaos Inoculation, Blood Magic, Zealots Oath
All of these change the way you build/play your character in big ways.

>>379625808
I'd argue that much like MH, the risk to not move in time is part of the experience.
And its still controlling your character.

>free
Free.. games..?
That's right, FREE GAMES

https://youtu.be/sgF4jE-vGnM?t=2
reminder that poe is so poorly balanced that you will randomly die to the first boss

>>379625460
Because the actual control of your character is relegated to queued directing by clicking on a spot, while not actually controlling their fine movement.
Dumb shit happens all the time where they you rely on pathfinding and your character gets hung up on environmental shit.

I mean, how could anyone not get it? Not him btw

>>379626219
Except he didn't randomly die?

>>379626360
>I mean, how could anyone not get it?
when you're an autistic fucking loser in love with a shit game from 20+ years ago and refuse to accept anything new, it's pretty easy
>hurr durr if it ain't a D2 clone I ain't happy

>>379625943
In terms of precise movement, choose exactly where you want to go is much better than using directional controls.
Also, clunkiness is not the same as not controlling.
>>379626360
The question is how its not controlling your character, not why you don't like it.

In fact, you are in control. But rather than being able to spam click like a retard and moving away anytime, you need to think about what you are doing. Big deal.

>>379626360
Or maybe don't get yourself into a shitty spot or use one of the many movement skills that ignore enemy body blocking?

>>379617509
You just spam an aoe spell over and over and run as fast as you can through level.


real "fun"

>>379619375
Gotta agree here, if for only two specific reasons. One, no online requirement. Two, modability.

I can only imagine how much better a game D3 would have been if the community was able to mod the damned thing. Blizzard are such chicken shits nowadays.

>>379613586
>doesn't even have Adventure Mode
Pfft, boring fucking trash leveling process

>>379626723
>precise movement
>in a system that reads where you clicked, and uses their shitty pathfinding to get you there
no no no
just let me do it
just give me control of my character and let me do it
I will always know better than some code monkeys pathfinding system

>>379625961
You only take blood magic to take the huge %life increases behind it, passive defense

>>379626132
>Vaal Pact
passive defensive increase, you don't actively manage what it provides you with, you just kill shit and it does what it does
>Essence Reaver
passive defensive increase, just makes Vaal pact work with ci
>Avatar of Fire
passive offensive increase, if you're building around conversion it enables your offense but you don't manage it in any way
>Chaos Inoculation
passive defensive increase, takes active life management through healing potions away and just gives you a bigger passive buffer (well see after the nerf though)
>Blood Magic
see above
>Zealots Oath
passive defensive increase, turns your passive life regen into passive es regen. no management at all

>>379626814
All ARPG mods are meme garbage.

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>Gem system could have been a cool way to decide how you want your spells to work
>It's almost entirely just +damage modifiers with very little(if any at all) actually effects

>>379626948
Yet it is. In term of pure precision, clicking will always be better. Also, pathfinding will still have an impact wether you use directional controls or mouse clicking.

And again, the movement system being clunky is not the same as not having control.

>>379626972
>>Vaal Pact
>passive defensive increase, you don't actively manage what it provides you with, you just kill shit and it does what it does
Actually yes it does, it removes your regen safety net. If you are out of flasks it forces you to actively attack someone in order to heal. It is anti passive.

>>379619263
Diablo 2: lord of destruction.

>>379626219
did not watch video. but yeah, there are a few balance issues right now. mainly life melee non berserker. ranged is fine however ;)

>>379627049
Just breaking the sets stranglehold and overhauling the paragon system would do wonders for D3. Something that Blizzard have 0 interest in attempting.

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these are the top poe player
average age of poe player: 39

>>379627302
>In term of pure precision, clicking will always be better
"no"
do you think quake movement would be more precise if you had to click to move?

>>379623257
To be fair, PoE and D3 both tried to break away from their predecessors.

The problem is that PoE's combat is shit and it's passive tree is largely a messy and over-complicated version of the stat distribution from D2. Skill Gems were a great idea with shit execution, and they rely far too much on multiple layers of RNG to be interesting.

D3's problem is that they relied too much on oversimplified loot treadmill design. The game was clearly made for the RMAH from the ground up. Jay Wilson was also a terrible fucking choice who bumbled from idea to idea like a trainwreck and then ended up settling for a system that was half-finished and needed a full expansion to "fix".

If you combined the best parts of both of these games, along with a dash of D2's sensibilities, it'd be the best ARPG by a country mile.

>>379627302
>pathfinding will still have an impact wether you use directional controls or mouse clicking.
a little but not how ARPGs do it
>at the top of stairs
>want to get down
>can't just run at the rails from the side to run op top of them and then fall down
>or just fucking jump over the rails
>game forces you to run all the way down them
>if you want to move over while on stairs you have to click to right or left side, and then the bottom again because fuck letting you have direct control
gee so precise

>>379622862
>polling them at end of league
They average out to 25k, and during the first month of leagues its been 40k+, plus standalone client

>>379626723
Because you're issuing commands -- not literally controlling the character.
It's literally the exact same as "controlling" an RTS unit, or clicking on a destination in a MMO and auto-running there.
In both of these cases, the character/unit makes decisions on their own while you remain removed from making each individual movement (and fine movements; the ones you want to be making yourself), and they might not be good ones or ones you expected.

Now, every time you click you regain character control... But you also immediately relinquish it. This is why these games are sort of shitty in terms of fine movement.

>>379627304
>what you're doing without Vaal pact
running around killing everything as fast as possible while using life flasks if you dip low and aren't ci

>what you're doing with Vaal pact
running around killing everything as fast as possible while using life flasks much less often if you dip low and aren't ci

big playstyle change there

>>379627462
no, they are busy with overwatch. its better they dont touch Diablo franchise tho. they will turn it to shit. case in point; necro expansion. you just know they will make it BiS

>>379627758
>What your doing with a straight sword
running around killing things before they can start their combo

>what your doing with a Ultra Greatsword
running around killing things before they can start their combo

It is just like your beloved dark souls

>>379627723
this is some next level pedantry right here

>>379627951
>Combo.
? What enemies do this? I mean... Have you played Dark Souls?

>>379627985
>clicking to move is more precise!
>here's why it's not
>jeeze no need to be so nitpicky...
lmao fucking kill yourself

>>379627781
Of course it will be OP because it'll drive up sales.

>>379627985
It's 100% correct though, and that's not an argument.
Also, where do you think you are? Facebook?

>>379627951
my argument has nothing to do with dork souls and I'm not even the anon who brought it up. I'm just pointing out the passive tree adds very little to the customization and feel of your character, it's almost exclusively passive offensive and defensive increases to complement your skill gem/item choices

>>379628051
have you? They have a set couple swing rotation. This is most blatantly view-able in DaS3

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1 autistic anon trying so hard to prove that poe and arpg genre in general is shit while being that obvious
also
>muh innovations

>>379628264
I know right. just because the entire genre is exactly the same as it was 20 years ago means nothing. obviously they just found perfection way back then when 3D graphics weren't even a thing and so were many other technological innovations, there's no need to ever improve it.

>>379628258
>"I don't know what a combo is."
A combo is a series of moves that cannot be interrupted and will hit successively no matter what, aka stun-lock. This shit only happened on one enemy in Dark Souls 1: Manus. No enemies in Demon's Souls, Dark Souls 2, and a couple bosses had legit combos in Dark Souls 3. So when you say "this is the strategy" and make mention of something that happens with like 1% of the enemies in the series, it's hard to take you seriously.
You'd been better off with a roll spam/shield spam argument.

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There is no point in playing PoE. There is nothing to do beyond clearing endless maps and grinding for loots and simply spamming a single skill for 80 hours straight.

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itemization in poe is a mess
you just get the best unique item for every slot

>>379619263
Marvel Heroes

>>379628802
>spamming a single skill for 80 hours straight.

Sad but true.

>>379628996
Not defending PoE here, but D2X and D3 are also guilty as charged of this.

>>379628757
Combo was the wrong word to use. I meant stuff like the 4-5 consecutive attacks the Irithyl Knights do. 90% of enemies do 2-3 swings in a move and they have a couple variants they switch between.

>>379629109
Yeah. That is why I finished Diablo 2 once and that is it.

>>379629109
Atleast D2 had a couple of builds that used a lot of different skills.

>>379628884

A shame they utterly killed it. Legitimate good game right there.

>>379629139
Yeah okay, I agree to an extent. But many enemies rely on pokes and haymakers too.

>>379621418
Literally what if this fucking art direction? Did they get their concept art drawn in a nursery?

>>379629248
The only builds I found using a lot of abilities (including mandatory tele/bo) were bone necs typically used teeth/spirit/spear/armor and occasionally prison or decrep
And FOH hybrids would use aura/FOH/smite.
BvCs used ww and occasionally leap/double throw.

>>379629109
Yea it's a problem with the entire arpg genre and why I don't find the games enjoyable after that first discovery period where you're figuring everything out

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>>379629569
The Item Shop Concept artists are almost 100% different people then the normal concept artists.
The normal shit is 90% "realistic" while the Cash shit is 90% WoW tier garbage

>>379629569
chinese contractors

>>379627502
We are talking ARPG. In that context, clicking is superior.
>>379627723
And yet you are not losing control, your character is always ready to obey. Which is again the original point. Clunkiness is not losing control. Limited control is not complete lack.
>>379627660
And how would that be any different if you had control directional controls. ARPGs do offer you those options, provided you use the appropriate skill. Directional control has nothing to do with it.

what do diablo shitters think arpg refers to diablo clones

>>379621418
zero
art
direction

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>>379628802
I don't understand how they do it past 50 hours, let alone 5000 hours.

>base game poe, grind endgame for 3 hours realizing I'm spamming chain lighting arrows, quit
>base game diablo, hit endgame, spin to win for 3 hours, quit

>>379633452
addiction
it's a slot machine for middle aged men

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>>379633975
that's a good analogy

game can't be played the way it's intended to be played with only 4 stash tabs; PoE being free is a meme.

>>379632245
The people that will be wearing sets like that will have huge ass billowing fuchsia and crimson cloaks barely showing behind fuckhueg flapping demon wings that expel particles every 10 or so seconds with a massive custom MTX weapon model expelling lightning and fire particles simultaneously coupled with a dark particle effect halo over the headpiece with a trail of Razer™ logo footprints behind them surrounded by a floating skull aura MTX, an energy bubble aura MTX, and three overdesigned MTX pets the size of the player character. Needless to say, the kind of retards that purchase this shit don't care about art direction and want to look AWESOME or simply just virtue signal by giving money to an Ethical™ developer.

Meanwhile the skin transfer system for people that want to use the more subdued designs from default items is horrendously implemented and impermanent - especially when factoring in HC character deaths.

>>379623815
the skill tree is not a replacement for the skill trees in diablo 2, it's a replacement for the 4 stat choices you got every level

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>>379635514
Speaking of ridiculous pets, this cost a guy $10K. It is 1 of a kind.

>>379635489
So wait for tab sales and pay $60 in tabs.

10 MTXc is $1
$60 gives 600 MTXc
Tabs are 20 MTXc when on sale
30 fucking tabs

Changes a bit if you get premium tabs or a currency tab, but the principle holds. Pay "full game" price, get "full game" features.

>>379636320
>argument: "it's not a free game as advertised"
>response: "just spend money"

eat more lead paint chips please

>>379635865
Except it's a replacement for both the stat system AND synergies. So now you get to split your points between vit stacking and synergies, both were some of the most fucked up parts of D2's design and PoE managed to make them ten times worse.

>>379628850
player made gear is actually better unless the unique actually has a unique mechanic that you use

>>379624261
>Genres exist for a reason you know.
genres only exist because people had different desires that they built video games around (i wanna shoot dudes, i wanna be a general, i wanna play football because I'm a retarded bore, i wanna live out my fantasy adventures, I want to survive in an alien wilderness, I wanna race cars, etc) in an era where technology or design paradigms were too primitive to fuse them

they're not something that should be set in stone

>>379636479
>argument: "it's not a free game as advertised"
Isn't the same as:
>can't be played the way it's intended to be played with only 4 stash tabs

Which one is your argument?

>>379636876
it is the same argument.
you just can't argue against it so you want it changed.

>>379637039
Are you arguing that the game cannot be played for free, or that it cannot be played as intended for free?

Does PoE still have that fucking retarded skill tree? Every time I get the urge to play the game, the urge dies as soon as I remember that shit.

Also, is respeccing free? I'm playing D3 right now and I love the fact that I can change builds any time, anywhere, for free. I don't want to be punished for trying to experiment.

>>379637281
>Are you arguing
Are you autistic?
The argument was presented.
You either argue against it or you don't.
It's that simple.

>>379625412
And you are irrelevant if you aren't the flow of money

>>379613586
The real reason for this besides shitposts is that developing D3 further was unprofitable so Blizzard didn't. Blizzard couldn't profit off additional updates; where PoE uses each major update to push more mtx and supporter packs to sell and continually fund development.

>>379637435
You presented two arguments.

The first:
>Path of Exile cannot be played as intended with only 4 stash tabs
Is reasonably true.

The second:
>Path of Exile cannot be played for free
Is objectively false.

>there are people who think diablo wouldn't be ten times cooler in third person
what's wrong with you

>>379613958
4 tabs are fine desu, but even if you buy more, its super cheap one time purchase (which i made with steambux).

The only problem there is calling it not p2w when it may be considering your autism, and that isnt an ethical over-reach that I consider worthy of my time

>>379637335
>Does PoE still have that fucking retarded skill tree?
I love it, but yes.
>Also, is respeccing free?
You need to spend currency, orbs of regret, that you can purchase reasonably cheaply from vendors or other players.

File: 1465327568411.jpg (72KB, 720x690px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 720x690px

WHERE THE FUCK IS MY BETA KEY GGG???

DON'T MAKE ME SKIP DINNER FOR 3 DAYS BECAUSE OF THIS

>>379638781
>I love it, but yes.
Out of curiosity, why do you love it? To me it seems like an absolute clusterfuck, all the worthwhile skills are spread out all over the place instead of being in an easily readable format. Not to mention, most of the board is filled with worthless junk like +5% health or stupid time wasting bullshit.

>You need to spend currency
Yeah, that really kills any motivation I may have had to play the game. I really hate being punished for experimenting. In PoE it seems like I have to look up the current cookie cutter build before I even start playing if I don't want to get screwed over in the long run. Even then I'm stuck playing a build whether I like it or not.

>>379637335
>Does PoE still have that fucking retarded skill tree?
Yes.

>Also, is respeccing free?
Occasionally. When there's a significant change to the tree, all your characters get a free full respec. Otherwise, it's OoReg. The idea is supposed to be that you OoReg to undo small oversights and mistakes, but make a fresh character to start over.

>I don't want to be punished for trying to experiment
They way I've seen it presented is that each character is a project. Before you begin, you define specifically what that character will be about. If you want to experiment with a new idea, it's a new project and a new character.

>>379639382
>They way I've seen it presented is that each character is a project. Before you begin, you define specifically what that character will be about. If you want to experiment with a new idea, it's a new project and a new character.

It's exactly this front-loaded planning phase that kills my desire to play the game. I don't want to have to metagame before I've even started my character. Fuck that nonsense. I don't want my character to be a "project", I want it to be something that's actually fun to play.

>>379639342
>Out of curiosity, why do you love it?
I find it incredibly fulfilling to build a unique tree, to plan it, execute it, get it as large as possible, etc.
>>379639342
I have never understood full scale easy respeccing, it feels like cheating

>>379639578
>metagame
I would argue that it is a huge part of the game, its why there is always a full scale skill planner on the ggg website

>>379639578
I know this is a crazy concept. But some people actually like using their brains to build their characters. I know thats some crazy shit to you, using your brain and all. You obviously never made your own build so just copy a build and you'll never have to worry about building your character and just kill shit.

>>379639342
After the ending of ever league and when the new patch comes ALL characters get 1 free full passive reset

>>379639793
poe builds are basically math sheets
it's not like you're planning any actual tactics or something, once you've optimized your dps and survivability with the gimmick spell you've chosen this time it's all brain dead cruising until you decide to cook up the next character

>>379639793
We don't need to keep acting like your autism is ok. It's not. Take your shit and walk into a fire. Or go use Excel if you want to just sit around with a spreadsheet instead of playing games.

>>379639342
>all the worthwhile skills are spread out all over the place
Not every node will be relevant to a certain build, and deciding how to get to relevant nodes is the challenge.

>most of the board is filled with worthless junk like +5% health or stupid time wasting bullshit.
Think of it as the worthwhile attributes costing the amount of skill points required to get to it, and you choose a number of other attributes along the way. You can spend more skill points to get better additional attributes, but will have fewer remaining skill points to get other worthwhile attributes.

>>379639719
>I have never understood full scale easy respeccing, it feels like cheating
Why, though? Why should I be forced to level a new character or pay out the ass to try something new? Making it needlessly expensive in time or currency seems retarded to me.

>I would argue that it is a huge part of the game
Sure, obviously. Same for any ARPG or nearly any game at all. What I don't like is having to metagame at the start instead of at the end. Once I've beaten the game or at least progressed significantly far I should have figured out whether my build is doing well enough or not, and in PoE I'm forced to restart or pay up if my build didn't turn out how I imagined. Being punished for trying new shit is terrible game design.

>>379639793
>I know this is a crazy concept. But some people actually like using their brains to build their characters.
There's a hundred other games I could play if I want to use my brain. ARPGs are played for the action, in my opinion. If I want to spend hours planning I can play grand strategy game or something.

Planning out a character is hardly an intellectual feat you should be bragging about being able to accomplish, anyway.

>>379640392
Then go play Diablo 3, just mindless blow shit up without thinking about anything.

>>379640335
>building a character is now autism

>>379640349
Thinking of it in different ways doesn't make it any less of a hassle. The skill grid is nothing but pure annoyance to deal with.

>>379640472
>Then go play Diablo 3, just mindless blow shit up without thinking about anything.

I have been, it can be extremely satisfying sometimes. I just finished the season journey and was looking for another game to play.

>>379640212

Except that's totally wrong, lots of builds have entirely different playstyles, lots of builds require certain uniques to even function, lots of builds are skill-based (basically any HP build for end-game content), etc.

Case-in-point: This game has at least three different viable summoner-type builds that each function off of different minions entirely. Diablo 3 has 0.

>>379640686
who cares about diablo 3

i want the entire fucking sub-genre to take a step up from the one-button clicking grindan simulator

>>379613586
>take Diablo 2
>improve on all aspects that made Diablo 2 good except combat
Wow, so hard.
Well maybe it is, because Blizzard was too retarded to do just that.

>>379639109
Only $30

>>379613945
I'm inclined to agree with you, but I think D3 with expansion has got it beat still.

Purely because console version and hardcore mode. Hardcore mode literally turns D3 into the best roguelite out there.

>>379613586
>characters have no distinct flavour
>skills have no distinct flavour due to modability
>game is ugly as hell
>plays like a slower version of d2
it can atmospheric as hell however. Act 3 is downright creepy at times

>>379641313
>characters have no distinct flavour
if you mean personality-wise I disagree, they're pretty fine

>>379641313
>I haven't played since 1.0 the post

>>379641313
>>plays like a slower version of d2

babby didn't get to endgame

>>379641386
personality is fine, but the playstyle lacks distinct flavour. All the classes are simply more inclined for one playstyle over the other, but you can create very similar builds on all of them.

>>379637435
>You presented two arguments.
I presented one. You're making two in hopes of the argument changing so you can argue it aka you're an idiot and want me to indulge it.

I won't.

>>379642373
but there are 3 subclasses that play completely differently.

You cant say pathfinder plays the same as occultist

>>379643101
>hold down rightclick, spam mandatory movement skill, spam potions
vs
>hold down rightclick, spam mandatory movement skill, spam potions

>>379643276
I can write incorrect things as well.

>The sky is purple
vs
>the sky is green

poe isn't as fun as it used to be. it's too fast these days. the only time you die is because of insta death scenarios

>>379643359
thanks doc

>>379619263
diablo 2

>>379643508
>the only time you die is because of insta death scenarios
Just like the old days.

>>379638218
The base 4 tabs are enough if you don't plan on trading with anyone, keeping things for other characters, storing all of your secondary currencies like esseneces and cards or taking advantage of vendor recipies

>>379640628
Grim Dawn is pretty good, minimal building in that as well. Titan Quest if you like Greek Myth. Diablo 3 was probably the worst ARPG I've ever played. You might like Marvel Heroes if you actually liked D3.

>>379613586
Diabo 1 is the best

ARPGs are shit

they're basically the same game with a different coat of paint

>>379613675
fpbp