Warcraft 3 thread

>>379579045
couldnt date the naga

Slow gameplay

there's none
it's the patrician game

No Warcraft I I I I

Frozen Throne didn't have an Orc campaign

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>>379579045
There aren't enough people wanting to play games of YouTD with me.
>tfw no friends who like wc3

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>>379579045
no Kane

>>379579045
the custom map scene died and people don't seem to play the game.
obviously not faults of the game itself

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>Characters have to be retarded in order for the story to progress

>>379579045
Ruined the RTS genre with RPG mechanics like heroes, leveling and items.

>>379579045
Not made for console.

No pre-order bonuses.

>>379579045
It spawned DotA.

>>379579171
Rexxar?

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>>379579232
I loved Warlords Battlecry for thouse reasons
and it was before Warcraft 3

>>379579045
the game was ruined because it was designed specifically with e-sports in mind

also the fucking custom matches crashes, fuck that shit

>>379579045
Dropped 2 factions because of development funds going to WoW instead, results in a campaign where you literally play half-made factions.

Extremely imbalanced with certain faction/ability combos.

Absolutely fails at communicating many critical mechanics to people so most people will get trashed even by shitty AI because they have no idea how to play the game. You either read online guides or you're fucked.

Removal of all naval gameplay from the series.

The campaigns are too easy even on the hardest difficulty (though I guess that applies to all RTS campaigns).

Satisfied?

>>379579045
Will we ever see a Warcraft IV realistically speaking?

>>379579345

Eh it was more of a bonus campaign that focused more on adventuring. It was like a World of Warcraft preview.

>>379579356
>persistent heroes between matches
My negro with good taste right here, I fucking loved this game! Still go back to it and play the weird-ass singleplayer campaign every now and then

>>379579396
>Removal of all naval gameplay from the series.
>Frozen Throne
k

>>379579045
modern day state of blizzard

>>379579408
You don't want to see WC4, realistically speaking.

>>379579045
it'll never get a sequel

>>379579408
>wanting Warcraft IV from nu-Blizzard after the shitshow SC2 was

>>379579408
goddamn you're a fucking retard, you should fucking kill yourself for the love of god

You have warcraft 4, it's called World of Warcraft, now shut up and give us $15 a month

Max population in AoE 2: 200
Max elite units in AoE 2: 200
Max population in WC3: 120 (desu I don't remember)
Max elite units in WC3: ~15?

>>379579396
>Dropped 2 factions because of development funds going to WoW instead
Whom do you mean, naga and blood elves?

>>379579446
A few ships in the campaign scenarios doesn't mean it has that gameplay for normal matches (it doesn't).

>>379579446
That's it.
There is some but it is as underdeveloped and gimmicky as the Nagas and Blood Elf factions.
The game massively skimped out on content.

>>379579504
100 in reign of chaos, 120 in frozen throne, but the food got bloated

>>379579569
>>379579583
>three ships per side in wc2 means naval combat
>three ships for each race in wc3 is not naval combat
jesus christ people

>>379579459
this. people should be pushing for a wc3 remaster. a wc4 will never be remotely as good as wc3.
>>379579583
naval units were gimmicks in wc2 also. oil was a waste of pixel space. at least naval units in wc3 gave us that tug of war battleships custom map.

>>379579504
Starcraft already did the dumping of gorrillion units in a shitpot to see what happens
WC3 focused on micro-intensive skirmishes and powerful heroes, meaning that every unit was valuable

>>379579549
Yeah, both were designed and promised back in the day but then they dropped all of that to quickly move people over to WoW's production which was a massive marathon that taxed the studio out entirely.

>>379579391
this

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>>379579045
Warcraft 3 artstyle is ugly as fuck.

WC2 > WC3 > WC1

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>>379579045
Battle.net was ruined by Russia's national sport

>>379579391
>designed with esports in mind
>all that rng damage and loot drops
i think you mean sc2 anon

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>>379579712
The graphics are awful because it came out at an awkward time. Art style is however rock solid and pretty influental.

It's not like it bothers you after few hours of playing. And the sound design has aged way better than the visuals.

>>379579792
If you don't know what you're talking about, you should sit down and be quiet like the good little autist you are

>>379579792
>i think you mean sc2 anon
Not really, even WC3 was e-sports focused. It's simply that back in the day, the requirements for that were different.
See how popular DotA:AllStars got as an e-sport and it uses the very same random system for runes and damage and effects and whatnot.

>>379579396
wait, which critical mechanics?

>>379579675
W3 HD was confirmed way back, same as D3. It will likely be done the same way as Starcraft. I would imagine W3 HD comes before D2, since D3 is still "getting updates"

>>379579925
you'll have to give some examples of what makes wc3 esports focused and how it ruined the game. that's literally the last thing i'd think of when sc2 exists and its esports focus was actively detrimental to not only the game but the ums scene.

>>379579356
>>379579439
What a good taste

The scale of the game got too big with Frozen Throne.

I hope when they inevitably do WC4 they start small before they bloat it out.

>>379579948
Unit blocking is an obvious one.
Upkeep is never really explained.
Ditto for creep farming.

I could take a random guy from /v/, put him up against an easy AI after playing through the entire campaign and he'd get his shit pushed in, that's how horribly the game explains itself.

>>379579925
>>379580090
actually i guess you could argue the built-in matchmaking discourages the community from having to/wanting to come up with their own most fun ways to play the base gamae (like sc1's 3v3 top vs bottom, or fastest), but it didn't negatively affect wc3's custom games scene the way it did sc2's. wc3 still had by far the best custom games of any blizzard title.

Blizzard, please for the love of god do WC3 HD and integrate it into Battle.Net. I want to play WC3 custom games again. Please Bobby Kotick, i'll suck your dick.

>>379580162
Those are all great mechanics though.

>>379580162
>losing to AI
Holy keksters

>>379580162
>being this terrible at games
If you finished the entire campaign then you have to be more than capable to defeat an easy AI.
git gud

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>>379580162
>Upkeep is never really explained.
Really makes you think.

http://classic.battle.net/war3/basics/upkeep.shtml

>>379579639
Can you use naval units in matches against other players, or in matches against the AI outside of the campaign?

>>379580162
>Mouse over upkeep
>"If you have too many niggas, you don't get as much money"

Really activates my almonds

>>379580162
>I've never actually played this game but I'm going to tell you everything I know about it

yep

>>379579045
Custom games were better than the base game

>>379579187
>td where you have your own private lane to defend
and what is someone else playing with you going to accomplish?

I'd actually like to get somewhat good at WC3 as I've never played through the campaign as an adult, and after many, many years of playing custom maps I feel like I should give the base game a second try.
I've been watching Grubby play and explain his warcraft games, which is rad, but I don't even know the absolute basics.

When should you scout, if even at all? What should you even look for when scouting?
Out of all the possible build orders, how do you know which one to go with in every match?
How many units do you need to creep?
When should you creep?
What items do you get on heroes?
How many workers should you have on lumber?
When should you expand?

Holy fuck I'm awful at rts

>>379581369
No, you can't. He's full of shit. I thought everyone hated naval combat in WC2 and that's why they removed it. They even made the Sea Witch unable to swim in melee.

>>379581624
you can only level up (there's a meta-game leveling system on this map) with other people in the game (to avoid cheating) and its fun comparing and learning from other people

>>379579045
i never played multiplayer, just finished the campaigns and did some skirmish matches against bots
lately i've been watching a lot of videos by FunnyWarcraft3, and it looks fun as fuck
how was starcraft more popular than this?

>>379581778
>how was starcraft more popular than this?
it wasn't except for competitive perhaps
WC3's playerbase was fucking huge thanks to custom maps

>>379581772
huh, could have swore last time i played you could level up solo as long as the game was hosted online by a hostbot, since it counted as a player, maybe they changed that too. havent played youtd in probably 3 or 4 years, maybe i should reinstall wc3 some time

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>>379581772
>He doesn't know how to deprotect maps and generate a max level code for himself.

THIS KINGDOM

>>379579045
Burning legion wasn't playable faction

>>379581909
>ruining a sense of progression for yourself
I mean if thats your thing go for it but that doesn't interest me buddy

>>379579779
These were the fucking days.

Dota 2 sucks.

>>379582050
>"""sense of progression"""
You just have to grind up levels so you get to distribute points so it's even possible to get far in the game. Why would I restrict myself to this arbitrary and ridiculous amount of grinding? YouTD is shit anyway. Play Power Towers if you want a good TD.

>>379581832
during mid 2000s, i spent a lot of time in internet cafes and saw a lot of people playing sc and never wc3
also, you rarely hear about the competitive scene of wc3

>>379582172
>Power towers
Top fucking percentage anon.

>>379582172
I like YouTD and have managed to get to lvl 150 multiple times and enjoyed the feeling that gave me and i'm only like level 23 so it can't be impossible without cheating. I'll try out power towers sometime though as I had no idea if that was good or not

>>379582337
Maybe they changed the experience gain or it was because I didn't enjoy the game in general, but it felt really grindy the last time I played. The RNG aspect of it is fucking retarded though.
>What? You're playing well and want to get far into the game this time? Well, too bad! Because you're not going to get any good towers or item drops this time. Nothin personnel kid

>>379581669
>When should you scout, if even at all? What should you even look for when scouting?
You scout to discover the enemy since the spawning is random. You also want to see what they're doing but if you're just a beginner you probably won't infer much. Try to always keep tabs on your enemy hero: if you play humans, build a farm on a way to your base and one near laboratory, if you play elves spread a bunch of wisps across the map.
>Out of all the possible build orders, how do you know which one to go with in every match?
Depends on match-up and map. Orcs have literally just one good build order
>How many units do you need to creep?
Depends on who and how you want to creep. Humans can creep with militia without even using a hero or any units, elves can use their buildings to creep (place AoW nearby and leash them), UD have a wand that gives you free skellies, you can get buy mercs, creepjack (steal last hit) etc
>When should you creep?
It would be easier if you just said which race you're playing the most. For example, with orcs, Blademaster is good enough on level 3 (2nd level windwalk that lasts 90 sec I think) and usually leaves his creeps to a secondary hero, humans usually creep and defend expands and orange dots just because they can
>What items do you get on heroes?
If you're using agile heroes, or playing against agile heroes, buy boots of speed (they appear in the shop at the start of the first night), also make sure to make regular trips to buy scrolls of healing and protection. If you're playing elves, remember that moon wells distirubte it's effect on mana and health, meaning that you need to place down the items before healing the heroes to maximize the effects. Elves and undead have good orbs, hu and orcs crappy ones
>How many workers should you have on lumber?
6-7 for humans and orcs, double/half for elves/undead
>When should you expand?
With humans usually asap just because they can. Other races can afford to wait

>>379582783
>It would be easier if you just said which race you're playing the most.
That's the thing, I have yet to pick one to stick with.
Orc doesn't seem to difficult to get a decent grasp at though, plus harassing things is fun and that's what BM is good at.

>>379583415
Orcs are cool albeit a bit samey. They also rarely go to tier 3 because their late gate units are worthless. Place your burrows wisely because they have shit armour and get taken down easily

>>379583821
Isn't it worth going tier 3 just to get your third hero out?
BM>TC/SH>Whichever you didn't get, right?

>>379583943
A third hero is not always better because experience will be split.

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>>379584085
I hadn't even thought of that.
Thanks for the help bro

>>379579396
>The campaigns are too easy even on the hardest difficulty (though I guess that applies to all RTS campaigns).

I think of myself as having decent APM and I used to play a lot of Brood War, but the Hard RoC campaign kicks my ass and I have to work out every mission for hours. The only way I have of doing anything is making like 40 turrets in my homebase, turtling with 40/80 Upkeep, making like 8 barracks, mining out all the available gold, and then making a fuckton of units in one clean swoop to overwhelm the AI with a retaliatory strike. My units die so easily too. What is your secret?

>>379583943
You generally want to win fast with orcs, as I said their lategame is crap, their heroes have worst ults in the game by far, there is rarely any reason to pick the third hero

>>379579045
Do I need to play the other warcraft games to understand the lore in this game?

>>379584397
How is Undead and the overall balance between matchups? I heard recently that UD is the worst race because they can't get to their much-coveted late game against anything but NE, and then recently I heard that something changed in the mindset and now Humans are low-tier. What's up with that?

>>379584521
I haven't played WC3 for several years senpai so can't tell you that. Undeads are hard as shit to play and too easy to mess up, most people rely to much of coilnova cheese and get their shit pushed in by immune units and anti-magic

>>379584513
Nope. Starcraft 2 was like that but you can go in Wc3 completely blind.

All you need to know is that orcs and humans don't like each other. This game introduces a lot of new things on top of that which weren't present in prior games and the plot centers around those things.

It's a must play imo.

>>379580162
unit blocking doesn't need explaining, neither does upkeep desu.
i really don't get why those would even need a mention, creep farming could be mentioned but shouldn't need explaining either desu. bg2-loadscreen-style mentioning should be enough.

>>379585273
Thanks anon!

>>379579712
the knights of W2 were so fucking cool looking. I miss that artstyle.

>>379579594
its 90 in RoC and 100 in FT, pleb

>>379585273
It's mostly self contained, and pretty well handled in-game.

I'd say each game only has one real big callback - WC3 has the identity of the stranger in brown, and TFT (which I still haven't ever beat - keep getting stuck in the Naga campaign) at least had the tomb from WC2.

But I wouldn't say they're big deals to a newbie of WarCraft

>slow and boring gameplay
>blatant ripoff fo Warhammer Fantasy
>campaign were just tedious
>unbalanced and the winning strategy is to cheese as much as you can
People mostly just bought it for the custom games, and not the game itself.

>>379579779
Pretty sure battle.net was ruined by battlenet 0.2, good fucking lord that trainwreck still hasn't recovered.

>>379585712
sure..

>>379579878
Is this the official remaster? Damn, all of those miss the tone of the originals so badly. Can't they fucking follow the geometry and proportions let alone the style?

>>379586028
What is le problem?

>>379579045
Most recent patch likes to BSOD

>>379579692
and became the most successful game of all time.

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>>379586115
>What is le problem?
I mean, If you wanted to bait me into posting a wall of text and then ridicule me you probably shouldn't have played all your cards at the beginning including the retard card.

>>379579712
I loved the moustaches on the footmen, they looked fucking badass

>>379579045
It spawned Dota which eventually killed the custom game scene.

>>379579207
Glad you could bake it, Uther.

>>379586631
>le moba killed every single game in existence!
Did you even play custom games? It was always alive and healthy even when Dota was at its biggest.

>>379579878
>>379586028
>>379586482
Those are some of the few updated HD models Blizzard released for SC2. I disagree that all of them are bad. I really like the Crypt Lord for example. They were outsourced and don't appear to have a lot of effort put into them. The quality of the models really varies. Some of them look absolutely terrible (like the Bloodmage) while others are actually fine.

>>379586115
his autism

>>379586709
>It was always alive
Sure
>and healthy
Yeah nah. It was a fucking nightmare to find anything once the dota bots became commonplace.

>>379586793
When dota bots became commonplace even dota was dead, it was around that time the whole wc custom map scene died, even dota games.

>>379586631
It spawned Dota which spawned waves of ASSFAGGOTS cancer

>>379586881
Yes but you can ignore those games.

The loss of WC3 custom games is much worse.

>>379579045
Still haven't patched the bug with cinematics even though it's been reported since 2014.
>>379579171
But Rexxar was the best solo part tho.

>>379579045
DOTA killed custom games.

>>379587281
>But Rexxar was the best solo part tho.
It didn't require any skill, just patience and acts 2 and 3 were pretty disappointing.

>>379586967
>The loss of WC3 custom games is much worse.
?

Have you even played WC3 or just going by what /v/ says?
It had tons of custom maps, which are even still active, and even more are still being worked on

They are far from dead

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>You will never again roleplay your favorite faction and dominate all others in Azeroth Wars

>>379587486
>which are even still active
They were dead when I last checked. Some tower defense maps, maybe some vampirism shit. That was it.

And if you're implying I need to refresh the list 50 fucking times to find something I want to play then I consider that pretty fucking dead.

>>379586028
Eh, they're missing the glow effects and only the Dreadlord has some iffy redesign elements.

>>379579692
>>379579549
Bullshit, the two cut factions were Burning Legion and Goblins

>>379579878
You got the same thing for elf heroes?

>>379587928
Nagas are playable for a while in TFT campaign, they have their own set of buildings and units, obviously they wanted to add them at some point

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>>379587938

>>379581778
>>379582208
gooks didn't like wc3 because it didn't reward mechanics as much and there was already an established bw scene

>>379579045
It still hasn't gone F2P. Try and imagine the renaissance that would result.

We aren't ready. We don't deserve something so beautiful and pure.

>>379588001
http://www.shacknews.com/article/75783/author-warcraft-3-almost-had-six-playable-races

Just because something sounds logical to you doesn't make it true

>>379579106
Fucking this.
Can't play this game anymore because of it being so damn slow.

>>379588250
Maybe they should include premium currency and speed boosts?

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Best shoutcaster
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv-14Y0_b1g

>>379579106
>>379588250
Probably feels so, if you don't micro and play it like a regular RTS.

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>>379588024
>Keeper of the Grove barely looks better

>>379584379
>spam towers
>spam siege units

Congratulations, you can now effortlessly beat any level. The only levels this didn't work on were either incredibly easy otherwise or had some stupid, blatant gimmick that you were forced into using (ie the banshee level, the waking-up-Malfurion level or the fel orc levels).

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>>379588024
>implying old Priestess of the Moon had legs
>you can still see the new bow below the old one
This looks shopped.

>ctrl+f
>dota

11 hits

>>379588482
Aside for more polygons on chest, Warden actually looks worse.

Tyrande is the only obvious improvement

>>379579232
warcraft 2 beyond the dark portal had heroes you turbocuck i bet warcraft 3 was your first warcraft game

>>379588603
Did you play BTDP? These heroes were shit, them being killed would result in a failed mission, so they often stayed in your base to be useless

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Wew!

>>379588482
>>379588590
Because the models were outsourced and Bobby probably didn't pay them enough to do a proper job. Some parts of the models aren't even updated at all (Warden hair for example). You should see the Bloodmage before you complain about these desu

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Ech.

>>379579504

Age of Empires HD Edition has a max population of 500 now although people still prefer to play on 200 and rarely 300.

500 pop is for noobgames.

They were forced to shoehorn WoW bullshit into TFT so that game would make sense. The Undead campaign was ruined as a result (haha what's that you want interesting Arthas content? sorry enjoy these brutally interesting Sylvanas segments even though she's a garbage character that no one anywhere ever would be interested in), and the Orc campaign was gutted into a horribly unfun UMS game. The Admiral Proudmoore stuff was good, but as a whole it was just so fucking bad.

>>379588412
Only caster*

Not exactly a golden voice.

>>379588795
>>379588896
>>379588024
>>379579878
I'd still play it

sure some look kinda meh, but overall I like what they did

>>379588795
What is my le looking at?

>>379588583
>ctrl+f
>dbz tribute

0 hits

>>379588795
Why do the satyrs look like that one guy who got too much plastic surgery? Why does the doom guard look like a geezer? Why do the eredars look like orcs?

>>379588024
>>379579878
>original has fitting cartoony exeggerated faces that also looked great in unit face icons
>remaster: everyone is a feel guy

>>379589315
DBZ Ultimate was more fun

>>379588795
Wtf is that thing bottom right?

>>379588896
>>379588795
Warcraft 3: Bogpilled Edition

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>>379589456
>not knowing voidwalkers

Did you even play Warcraft 3? I know the HD art is shit, but it should be obvious.

>>379589410
Don't think I played that one, just Tribute and Supreme Rpg

>>379589512
Never noticed their big ass mouths before now

>>379579712

remaster when

>>379587407
Still felt good that the game allowed you to get stupidly strong and overpower an entire army in the final mission

>>379579045
Frozen Throne was rushed out the door, leading to
>An orc campaign that was only 30% done at time of release (though they did release the rest for free, which would be unheard of now)
>A second, smaller orc campaign with no voicelines during the cutscenes
>The final, climatic battle between Illidan and Arthas that was supposed to be CGI was instead made with their terrible in-engine cutscenes, which made it short, clunky, and led everyone to think Illidan died when the original concept for the cutscene was just supposed to show him badly injured.

Fantastic games but the way they kicked Frozen Throne out the door was a sign of Blizzard dropping in quality.

>>379588896

why the long face, uther?

>>379588575
You can clearly see that the two POTM models are melded in the top preview

>and extra ear popping out
>legs
>the armor on the tiger clipping
>tiger has two faces
>bow
>double hair

the upkeep system was too much of a comeback mechanic when it wasn't needed.. the game itself is fucking great though and i love UMS too

>>379588896
>>379579878
The death knight looks horrible.

Is there any reason why Blizzard refuse to make a wc3 remaster or make wc4? No matter what the game will make them millions and make an extreme profit no matter how bad the game will be.

>>379588024

That's one busty priestess

>>379590439
I guess they're still milking SC2 and don't want another strategy game to compete with it until SC2 has completely dried up.

>>379590471

those are the best kind

>>379579408
>IV

It's IIII, you retard.

Upkeep is a cool idea. Incentivizes players to be active in early game skirmishes. I think Dawn of War did that better, in that you have the control points to gather resources. The idea that you have an upkeep and should, therefore, be out on the map using your units in combat isn't necessarily something new players will link, whereas you WILL get into fights in DoW for control points because it's necessary.

So upkeep could have been done better. Balance was pretty mediocre. Having the game be basically elves versus orcs at the highest level is pretty sad.

>>379590439
They're busy with the Starcraft remaster and they are still making content for SC2.

My guess would also be that if they were going to remaster anything they'd do WC2 and probably WC1 first, possibly as a package deal with some modern adjustments.

>>379590660
>American eductation at work

>>379590710

the romans used IIII as well as IV

>going to rock-chucking school in a glass house

>>379579712
Nigga, no

>>379590687
>balance was pretty mediocre

I disliked how, competitively, there were very little choices about which hero to start with. You're not going to start with a tauren chieftan, for example.

>>379590902
>I disliked how, competitively, there were very little choices about which hero to start with

yeah this would probably by my biggest complaint about tft

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undead sylvannas windrunner is the hottest female character ever designed and my dick will forever be diamonds

>>379590981
And then they gave her pants.

>>379590981

actually her body is very cold

>>379590902

The nice part was that human and undead were fine at a casual/amateur level, but yeah, hero selection was bad at low levels too.

>>379590902
>>You're not going to start with a tauren chieftan, for example.
>mfw I did this every game against undead and midgame all of his ghouls/skeletons instantly died from stomp + shockwave

>>379591147
>mfw a mediocre player rapes you with dk+crypt fiends

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>>379590981
>being attracted to an undead
>being attracted to an elf
>being attracted to an undead elf

>>379591323
You underestimate how much aoe damage a high level tauren can do. Crypt fiends are not that tanky.

At least that was my experience but it's been like a decade so ehhh

>>379591323
>not just ghoul rushing everything at the beginning of the game
They just can't deal

>>379590902
What are you talking about, there was a lot of variety even in top player matches.
Elves: DH is a top pick, often was replaced by Warden, often by neutral heroes such as DR, second pick is almost always neutral
Orcs: almost always BM first pick, often Farseer in mirror match, second pick was evenly divided between SH and TC
Undead: least variety, I'd say 95% of games ran DK+Lich, DL is the worst hero in a game
Human: Archmage is obviously top pick by the virtue of being possibly the best hero in a game and has gamebreaking synergy with Beastmaster, humans usually go for all three heroes and Blood Mage is fucking useless

>>379591073
I feel like you could get away with more at the casual level. Dark Ranger, Warden, or PotM first worked well for me in some games. I used to mix it up a lot with NE because Demon Hunter first got boring after 300 games.

>>379591507
DL ?
Why is Archmage OP ?

>>379591507
>What are you talking about, there was a lot of variety even in top player matches.
>DH top
>BM almost always
>95% DK
>am obvious top pick

alrighty then

>>379591507
Were you being sarcastic, because half of what you listed is no variety in the hero you start with.

>Always BM or Farseer
>Always Archmage
>Always DK
>DH most likely.

>>379591460

You can spread crypt fiends. Your hero isn't terribly effective against an undead player who is just playing normally. Blademaster is a better choice because he kills individual units faster, weaves in and out of creep camps quicker (allowing you to steal last hits and items), allows you to kill worker units (crippling their economy) and do otherwise more effective early game things.

Chieftain would be alright against a ghoul rush, but otherwise, just get the blademaster first and chieftain second if you're sold on getting them at all.

I like YouTD and Castle Fight.

>>379591673

water elementals, mostly. they're buff as fuck.

>>379591673
Dreadlord.

Archmage's mana aura is crazy and he has a good combination of being able to create a tanky elemental to creep and then get a massive AOE attack that can wipe out a lot of units.

>>379579045
It didnt get a sequel

>>379591673
dread lord
water elemental

>>379591673
Archmage and Beastmaster have the most powerful summons in the game and AMs aura means that you basically get to spam them forever

>>379591761
>>379591791
>>379591821
>Water elementals
The difference between level 1 and level 2 water elementals was insane. Level 3 I almost always just had one out because it never died and the cooldown was shorter than the duration.

>>379579356
Warlords Battlecry 2 was better

>>379591985
Yeah they were good but goddamn its boring as shit to play the same tactic every time.

I was more a fan of mountain king throwing hammers at their heroes and murdering them.

>>379579045
They have not made Warcraft 4 yet.

>>379579356
Is that The Rock?

>>379592629
>Warcraft 4
>After ruining everything you ever loved in WoW.
Pls no.

>>379592791
>it was all a dream/vision from Thrall
>he must now discover a way so this terrible nightmare will never take place
There I fixed everything

>>379592791

split the timeline at the moment when the alliance and horde return to draenor in TBC. keep the good parts of outland, toss the rest.

>>379592981
this or ignoring WoW outright would make me so happy

>>379593293
>>379593324
> all these cucks believing Blizzard will ignore WoW lore, after all these books and shit

>>379593505
I have no faith that Blizzard will ever make a good game again actually

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>>379588795
>those fucking voidwalkers

>>379593505
Best case scenario they alter it with a different timeline or something. They can't expect RTS fans to be on the up and up about everything that happened in WoW over the last 10 years, so an alternate timeline is the best way to do it.

But I say that in every thread that WC4 is mentioned.

>>379592381
I loved the Mountain King. Truly the best hero in the game 1v1.

>>379581354
I had no idea about this. Wow.

>>379593505
It will be this >>379594248

Or just something else
Like while everything that was happening in WC3 still happens but MEANWHILE the trolls or something are at war or whatever

>>379594261
What did you think LOW UPKEEP notifications with ominous music meant? Did you never notice the gold on your mine?

>>379594540
>Like while everything that was happening in WC3 still happens but MEANWHILE the trolls or something are at war or whatever
I'm now having a nightmare where WC4 is some bullshit Draenei space adventures.

>>379580162
easy ai doesn't even attack you lmao

this post is the embodiment of the "everything is, has been, and will always be shit even though i've never played it" meme

>>379594248
>>379594540
meh, they didn't expect you to play Warcraft I either when playing RoC. Warcraft IV, if it ever happens, will explain shit through cutscenes, manual entries, and will be far away from now on anyway

>>379579045
No widescreen support, camera is zoomed too far in.

>>379594771
All you needed to know for Warcraft 2 was "the orcs beat us last game." There's a hell of a lot more to cover in Warcraft 4, especially if someone is actually playing all the games in order.

It's still got one of my personal favorite RTS campaigns of all time, and I LOVE the focus on micro in RTS that this game inspired.

BUT, there are two major flaws with the game:

1. Balance. Even to this day you have obviously best hero and unit choice for all races barring maybe Night Elves. Orcs is BM, Shadow Hunter that masses Raiders. Undead is DK, Lich that masses Crypt Fiends. Humans have a variety but the absolute best is still AM, take your pick of second hero, then Towers+siege weaponry with footman as meatshields. Only Night Elves have to make changes based on who they are fighting, possibly because of how much sheer variety there is in their mechanics (also probably why the best WC3 is an NE one as well that has done a variety of strategies with them.)

2. The view of a battlefield. A couple months back I played it again after so many years, and it's too close to the field. It becomes annoying because one can't see that far beyond where their units are. Of course later into a match this stops being a problem, but it just feels weird in the early game.

>>379594963
Blizzard always releases tons of books and expects you to read them in order to understand shit. Warcraft IV will be the same

>>379579106

I kinda like the comfy, slower opening of a WC3 match. SC2 always has me scared shitless.

Some times I just like watching my little base humming along.

>>379595493
Yeah now that I think about it WC3 generally has a pretty chill ramp up time.

At least until they start tower rushing you.

>>379594963
Eh. They'll be able to introduce all the important characters and what you need to know for whatever storyline they'd set up. It's like the Warcraft movie, you could go in not knowing any characters but they explained as much as you needed to know so you could still enjoy it.

>>379595770
Wasn't the reason people hated the Warcraft movie was because it was 90% exposition?

>>379595902
I don't know, maybe it was a bad example. I just mean you don't have to include all the lore. Some things will be explained and some minor references would go above some people's heads but that's fine.

What I mean is that it just seems a lot easier than to do any alternate timelines, time jumps or something like that.

>>379595902
Most of the criticism was that shit was going too fast and they didn't understand/remember who all the characters were (if I remember right)

>>379579045
There's no WCIV

>>379579045
typical multiplayer RTS-meta that is more centered around you not making mistakes since everyone are pulling the same strats rather than offering the player freedom to fuck around with a bunch of ideas.

>>379580162
Upkeep is explained in one of the tutorials?

Can't stop replaying

>>379579045
>clicking furiously at the same place it will probably makes your units move faster
Annnd that's why we got MOBAs.

>>379579396
warcraft 3 was never meant to have naval gameplay though. It's mostly just a nostalgia bonus in Frozen Throne.

Starcraft already made it clear that naval gameplay is bad and not needed. It was never much fun in Warcraft 2 either.

>>379579106
>flaw
That's what makes it the best and comfiest RTS
>>379579193
You got me there.
IN THE NAME OF KANE

>>379579692
>>379579549
No, Demons and one more, probably Naga.

Blood Elves was never meant to be a faction. This guy is filled with crap. Demons however was mentioned real early that they were going to be playable and they even showed concept art for heroes like Demon Warlock etc. They decided later that Demons weren't going to be playable because having demons mine for gold and cut trees for lumber would make the interdimensional end of world threat of the demons nonsensical.

>>379595770
I can already imagine the narrator explaining WoW's entire storyline

>this big bad threatened the world
>he was killed by 20 literally who's
>then another bigger badder bad showed up
>he was killed off by another horde of literally whos
>something about corruption idk,this part didn't make a lot of sense
>Something about a furry invasion
>some time later one of the bad guy is resurrected (again for the 7th time) and threatens the world again

That would be a long boring cutscene that no one would be able to remember after just hearing it once.

>>379596776

PEACE THROUGH POWER

>>379595902
Actually, it doesn't do much exposition. Instead they tried to keep it simple

Fel energy = green and makes you bad. Gul'dan and Medivh are corrupted by green so the audience knows there is something wrong with them.

They did however need some more explanation for other crap, like were Medivh went and that black box thingie in Dalaran etc

>>379596876

What about Warcraft just set in another time/world.

Like, Azeroth is played out and shit. It's cool and epic but like... shit man your right, It's been hit by every possible big bad for last like 20 canon years.

We could still have another WC game set in another universe or something. I just like fast forward the clock like 100 years or something.

Warcraft IV needs to start fresh.

>>379588795
>>379588896
They should at the least have tried to replicate the original shading.

>>379588795
>>379588896
>No one has eyeballs except for the Phoenix

>>379597160
Timeskip suffers the same problem, as you'd still be "spoiling" things for WoW if there is any reference to the history at all. Not to mention that if we go too far forward in time there will be no reason for them to be still hitting each other with swords.

If you want a fresh start then we're talking reboot, alternate universe, or "unknown wars" like the guy earlier who mentioned we could cover what the trolls were doing against the undead/elves at some point in their history. Or what the night elves were doing over the ten thousand years then men slept, other than having lots of lesbian sex.

>>379597549
I'd watch a warcraft movie about night elves having lots of lesbian sex to be honest

>>379588603
not nearly on the same level as w3 heros, they were slightly buffed normie units in wc2, super squish

frozen throne online is n2b

https://entgaming.net/forum/games.php

>>379597764
Just watch Room in Rome, fuck up your screen's color so that the women are purple and pretend whenever they talk about men that they're talking about their boyfriends in the Emerald Dream.

>>379597549
>Troll-Aqir wars
>War of the Shifting Sands
>Troll Wars

>>379598418
The Trolls just need more about them in general.

>>379579194
thats not a flaw you fucking moron

>>379579045
How did Rexxar end up in Kalimdor?

>>379587568
what are you talking about, literally played this last week

>>379598934
He rode a dolphin or someshit idk man

>>379598540
Pre-Sundering stuff would be cool as fuck, and it's something that could actually work, since there isn't a lot of established lore there.
>The Gurubashi and Amani empires held some animosity for one another, but they rarely warred. At the time, their greatest common enemy was a third empire — the civilization of Azj'Aqir.
>The trolls fought the aqir for many thousands of years but never succeeded in winning a true victory over them.

>>379579045
DotA.

Think about it.

>>379589315
THERE'S STILL
-NO-
DBZ TRIBUTE "PORT" TO DOTA 2
WHAT THE FUCK

>>379579045
It's an RTS.

>>379599519
>he doesn't know

Welp

>>379598934
Dark portal shit probably

>>379598934
Probably took a boat with fleeing refugees. There were also ogres on kalimdor, maybe Rexxar was always there.

>>379599760
Ogres are from Draenor.

>>379599432
They could certainly do "slice of time" stuff, not necessarily having multiple interlocking campaigns but have separate campaigns for each race that indicate different points in time.

Maybe start with the troll wars so you can play as the humans saving the elves and have the nice friendly "introduction" that blizzard games always have where you start as the humans. Then use the elves as a jumping off point to tell stories of the night elves from way back in the day, use the enemies they mention there to switch over to the aqir or whatever "evil" race and then wrap up with a troll telling his children about a story from when their ancestors led a great campaign against the aqir and night elves.

>>379599760
nah, the ogres and rexxar passed the dark portal during the First War along the orcs

>>379599938
Sure but weren't there ogre creeps in Kalimdor? Maybe I'm misremembering, but it seemed like there were their own bands of ogres there, unaffiliated with the horde.

>>379599972
sounds like spinoff material, not main series

>>379600070
they presumably traveled there between Warcraft II and Warcraft III, like the goblin merchants

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Glad you could make it, OP.

>>379600075
Well that's the problem, since the common belief seems to be that WCIV either needs to be a time skip or alternate universe. But alternate universe is a cop out, time skip starts pushing the limits of how long we'll believe people will keep using bows and arrows to fight, and a reboot would just be lame so the only other option would be "spin off" or "untold battles."

>>379579045
Game was good back in 2004, now it's lacking
>short campaign
>single ending
>no romance subplot
>no optional routes
>demo maps not in main game
>no official modding tools

As people have already stated: Balance.

It's a frustrating game because it could probably be the best RTS in the world if Blizzard took the time to rebalance it. As it stands it's too dull and repetitive because you have no real options.

>>379596669
>Starcraft already made it clear that naval gameplay is bad and not needed. It was never much fun in Warcraft 2 either.
And then supcom came and proved that it was good all along!

>>379599972
Troll Wars already have all of the lore established. Unless they do some major retconning, I can't see it being fun.
Pre-Sundering on the other hand, has practically no lore.
>A thousands of years long cold war between two huge troll empires, while both of them are fighting the aqir.
>Throw in other ancient races, like tauren, centaur and furbolg.
All of the political bullshit they could pull in a game like this is immeasurable.

>>379600452
I don't follow many RTS games but isn't every RTS this way? Starcraft, for example, has only one or two "go to" strategies depending which race you're up against. You never see Dark Archons in professional/high level matches, for example.

>>379600718
>Troll Wars already have all of the lore established. Unless they do some major retconning, I can't see it being fun.
I was just trying to find some way to get the humans involved so that they can have the "new player friendly hey look these characters look like me" crap. The humans history doesn't sound that interesting pre-Troll Wars.

warcraft 4 when?

>>379588024
Was wondering what looked wrong about the warden; why the fuck did they make her cloak so much further back? Part of the charm of the warden is that the cloak went basically all around the body, now it's just a normal cloak

>>379600838

Brood War has a lot more options. With Terran, for example: Bio can work. Mech can work. A huge focused army or many forces split up into drops can work. Even units previously never seen like firebats are getting use at the pro level now. Mech is definitely the most popular way to go, but it is by no means the only viable option.

With Zerg basically every unit except queens are useful.

Protoss have the least options because unless you're doing something bizarre your army composition will always look the same, and they have some completely useless units that you wouldn't even build for novelty like Dark Archons and scouts.

>>379601271
Because it's not very practical.

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>>379601503
>practical
Does the rest of her design look "practical" to you?

>>379601271
Probably a more realistic range of motion.

>>379579686
>WC3 focused on micro-intensive skirmishes
BW has both, meanwhile the average WC3 match ends up being hero/worker rushes

>>379601760

Brood War APM is the video game equivalent of plate-spinning. Its a time-sink skill you spend countless hours developing into autonomous muscle memory just so you can finally play the strategy game underneath it all.

Blizzard could easily patch the game to make it more about the actual strategy and less about having to perform 14 actions to achieve something you could have done with 2, but the autists who like it seem to prefer a game about pushing buttons and would no doubt get mad.

>>379602325
>Blizzard could easily patch the game to make it more about the actual strategy and less about having to perform 14 actions to achieve something you could have done with 2
They made an entire sequel like that and it was detrimental, though SC2's biggest problem is the game pace being way too fast. The strategy becomes even more important when you can't instantly queue up another army. WC3 is too slow, SC2 is too fast, BW is just right.

>>379592042
I concur. Being undead gave me so much fun.

>>379602325
The only way I could see to simply RTSes to take less actions while maintaining the depth would be if you gave workers "once we have this much money, stop what you're doing and build this" commands. That way you wouldn't have to worry about the exact timing to build a new thing.

That being said, I'm not sure how you'd maintain the ability to do four different attacks at different points on the map without keeping the APM requirements.

>>379588024
>DH's body is completely fucked up in the shoulder/arms area
>PotM has down's and retarded Jersey Shore hair
>KotG's head is brick-shaped and has a fucking Liefeld chest
>Warden is the only one that looks good but she lost her smug

>>379579045
Town portal scroll is too op, other than that, the game is pretty fucking swell
9.9/10

>Warcraft 2 death knight was so powerful, not even god mode can save your units from it
Death knight was the poster boy of Warcraft 2 for me.

>>379602674

Brood War is a good strategy game hidden beneath shitty player input.

SC2 is a bad strategy game regardless of how many buttons you're pushing. It's command and conquer with none of the charm.

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>>379603090
This piece of Death Knight art is my favorite piece of game art from any game ever.

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>>379602891
>yfw a fucking paladin divine shield walks into your base, kills all your workers/disrupts your gold mining for the duration, and then town portals out.

>>379594875
They added proper widescreen support. Camera's still zoomed in a bit though, so your hardware doesn't give you an advantage.

The one thing they should've patched but didn't is the fucking delay on battle.net, which along with cheaters is the reason everyone moved to W3Arena.

>>379579045
Dota.
Fucking ruined games for eternity

>>379603264
The player input is integral to the strategy is what I'm saying. You can't divorce one from the other without dumbing the game down.

>>379603327
gorefiend was such a cooler DK than arthas was

>>379603975
Well they're also completely different breeds of Death Knight. All the DKs from Warcraft 2 became Liches.

>>379604208
Correction, some did. Clearly the lore was adjusted in WoW.

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>>379579045
I did not like hero units and it kind of killed my interest in the game

>>379579712
WC1 had an even better art style for me. Very dark and gorey, great sprite work.

>>379604523
>I did not like hero units and it kind of killed my interest in the game
I loved the hero units because outside of the occasional Protoss hero and the invention of Medics in Brood War I'd always hide my hero unit in the back of the base during missions so that they didn't die. The inclusion of heroes in WC3 and the way they were implemented meant that we could have these great characters fighting battles on the front lines like they're supposed to do, rather than cowering in terror in the back line just in case a dragon shows up to attack and you lose the game.

>>379579045
Humanity didn't kill all the others

>>379605510
Warcraft humans are dicks. They did nothing but fight each other until the orcs and later the undead came to fuck shit up.

>>379579045
Graphics are fucking awful and goofy

It looks like I'm playing a low budget kids tv show, subject matter aside

>>379605926
They're also strangely compassionate considering they threw all the orcs in camps after the second war rather than just murdering them all.

Why was it necessary for an army of demons to create an army of undead again?

>>379607029
Because they needed a way to be summoned and they needed to weaken everyone.

>>379607029
It wasn't necessary, but it meant they had a local population to use in case the proxy invasion started to take ground.

>>379607029
They needed the undead to help them gain a foothold to actually get them in the world. Plus it let them have a sacrificial army that they could just throw around whenever they wanted rather than risking their own forces.