Hey guys, I have been playing Smash bros for a long time and

>typical tr4sh babby

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>Smashbabby
>Opinions

>2 posters
Cool samefagging

>>379569542
You are retarded. Stick to Smash Bros. since it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to real fighting games if you think it all boils down to combos.

>>379570130

So let me ask you how long you think it would take for me to know everything I need to know in order to play the game in a holistic kind of way? How many hours?

this is why only autists play your game, it's too fucking hard to get into for not much payoff, and combos are clearly the key to winning. if that's not correct it certainly isn't what most people think, especially newbies to the genre.

this is why they casualized SF5, capcom is realizing the autists who master the game aren't a big enough demographic to make them money

enjoy your dying game and community, smash is like chess, 5 mins to learn, a lifetime to master. where as 2D fighters are hours and hours to learn and who knows how long until you master it, if ever

it's a practice in minutae and memorization. sorry about your dying genre

do you play sm4sh or melee.

>>379570487

Sm4sh, I don't play games that require glitch exploitation in order to compete

>>379570434
Again, you're retarded. SFV pulled more entrants and viewers last Evo than Melee and Smash 4 combined and if it doesn't this year, you can bet Tekken might beat those games out by 3x the amount. Dying genre my ass, players enjoy depth and variety in their games and they enjoy having a new concept to master every time they have a more basic concept down pat.

Meanwhile Melee is stagnant with the competitive scene dominated by the same 5 or so top players and everybody uses the only 3 viable characters outside of Hbox, who is an anomaly. They also all play those characters the exact same way like they have been for at least a decade ever since the Melee "meta" wrapped itself up nicely. There's nothing left there and it is kept alive solely by the insular autists who have been apart of that community for years, despite you projecting it onto the rest of the FGC.

>>379570581
Well theres nothing wrong with playing melee. I'm also a sm4sh player, and have also picked up sf5 recently and I can already tell you that you have almost no idea what youre talking about. You're probably not even good at sm4sh if you can't see why you're wrong.

you can't just say that its all about learning combos. Even in sm4sh you pick up on other things like nuetral, conditioning, footsies, and etc on the way. To say that fighting games is all about combos is retarded.

sm4sh is an inconsistent game btw.

>>379570020
Original poster doesn't count, newfriend.

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>>379570434

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>>379569542
Anyone who's been exposed to more technical, more dynamic fighting games will quickly pass on street fighter. Other more fun fighters, fighters that take actual care of thier fans, namely Tekken has advanced impressively in their latest installments; but the relic that is Street Fighter just can't seem to evolve. if you want something a little more "safe and Paid DLC-friendly," Street Fighter might be your cup of tea.... Key word, might.

>>379570917
>Muh Melee

No one brought up that stagnant trash Sm4sh is the epitome of fighting games, intense neutral game without any of the boring and bland regurgitation of memorized combos .

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>>379570487
Melee

I've tried Smash 4 and while I like the roster it just doesn't feel right for me

I just don't like:

>uber magnetic ledges
>ledge sharing
>less movement options
>less combo options
>no momentum

But I will still style on friends on that game

>>379571564
Ah, I see. You're just baiting. I was stupid to not catch it sooner.

>>379570917
>Meanwhile Melee is stagnant with the competitive scene dominated by the same 5 or so top players and everybody uses the only 3 viable characters outside of Hbox, who is an anomaly.

yea and you know what? they deserve it because theyve put the most time and effort into the game. meanwhile your trashy ass can go play smash 4 and upset any top player because of rage, gimicks, and almost no tech involved.

I have Smash 4 but never really played it. Only other fighting game I've played is tekken
How do I get into Smash as a noob?

>>379570581
>glitch exploitation
>glitch

This has got to be bait.

>It's a Smashfags vs FGC thread

>>379571189
Yes it does retard

>>379571652
>roster doesn't feel right for me

Because there's more than 4 viable characters? In fact, basically all but 3-4 of the roster of 57?

>>379572467
It actually doesn't

>>379572174
>he literally actually thinks that the devs intended for people to wavedash across the stage

It must be hard living a life this full of delusion

>>379572138
>pick a character that appeals to you
>play them

That's about it really, almost every character on the roster is viable in a competitive setting

>>379572581
Are you incapable of comprehending what you read? He said he likes the roster, the game itself doesn't feel right to him.

>>379572624
yes it does
try making a thread, you'll see 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
1 post, 1 image, 1 poster (OP), page 1

>>379572836
No fuck you I was driveby shitposting I'm not that guy you do it

I never got into traditional fighters seriously because I can't be bothered to fucking memorize everyone's fucking moves. Smash is better in that regard. You don't have to memorize how to do moves. Just what they do and how you should use them, and it's universal for all characters.

It's almost like moba shit where you have to memorize all the fucking builds and items and shit. That shit isn't fun to me. I'm not a kid anymore. I don't want to play the game for 1000 hours just to get the basics down.

>>379569542
>SFV
>MKX
>choosing two of the worst and most dead fighting games as your primary starting points

You did this to yourself.

The main problem with traditional FGs is that the shit is just too fuckin complicated. I played Guilty Gear Xrd and the training took me at least an hour to do, even by the end of it I hardly remembered anything about it. It's like not only do you have to remember 15-20+ move inputs for your character, but you have combo strings to remember, along with all these fucking convoluted mechanics, burst this, EX that, breaker this, critical that, I have no fucking idea how a typical player keeps all this shit in mind without just having literally studied it for hours. It's like learning a new language, or studying a new discipline trying to become competent in this shit

then you have smash where you pick it up and right away it's highly intuitive despite also having a great deal of depth

it's very easy to see why someone would choose smash over a typical 2D fighter

I've seen this same kind of argument posted on several fighting game forums and is always someone posing as a Smash player. This is 100% bait.

>>379569542
Play Killer Instinct. Combos are never guaranteed because of the breaker system, and the game gets more fun to watch the higher level it gets.

>>379569542
I've never been good at fighting games so I don't know for sure

but I think 3D fighting games like Soul Calibur and Tekken break the trend with less emphasis on combos. Like Tekken is infamous for its 10 hit combos but I always hear people say in actual fights you would never use them.

>>379572958
>>379573312
This. I knows fighting games aren't just about combos, it's about strategy and tactics, predicting your opponent and knowing what move to do in the right situation. But there's a barrier to that when "what move" is something like 80-100 moves that often involve complex inputs that I really don't want to memorize. Which is why you see games like Smash or Rising Thunder or even the fucking Souls PvP community which are games about fighting with very simple movelists.

>>379569542
>I have been playing Smash bros for a long time

Stopped reading there.

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>>379572958
>I'm not a kid anymore.

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>>379570434
>smash is like chess

>>379573652
The only game with 100+ moves is Tekken and none of the inputs are complex. You just pulled that out of your ass.

>>379573707
>Hey guys

stopped reading there

>>379573652
Combos only becomes an issue when your character is in combo range, which means either your character is rubbing shoulders with the other or has done a special that allows follow up for a combo.
A lot of time footsies, spacing, knowing when to move in or to stay out and knowing what your opponent can and will do are the most vital parts of becoming a good fightan player.

>>379573652
>complex inputs
>hadouken is a complex input

>>379574051
> footsies, spacing, knowing when to move in or to stay out

All of which is fucking boring for the casual player, it's the opposite of exciting, the opposite of the spectacle that the game sells itself on.

Nobody decides to pick up a fighting game because they can't wait to try to edge out their crouching HK vs another character by a few pixels or block 20 hadoukens in a row while trying to close distance

>>379570434
>people new to a genre are the real experts
Woah.

>>379572648
It's in the fucking dev made tutorial video, retard.

After reading this thread I'm glad I'm able to enjoy fighting games. I mean I could have ending up like some of you guys but thank goodness I didn't.

>>379573181
You are as delusional as OP.

>>379573652
You got three basic inputs, QCF, HCF, and SRK, then different variations of these, how is that complex?

>>379574431
>the game is literally called a party game by the creator multiple times
>they actually posted a pic on the smash dojo saying "real men use items"
>he actually thinks the creator intended people to use wavedashing as part of the playstyle, despite the horrendously awkward input requird to do it and the fact that it works better for certain characters vs others

Seriously anon, it's time to stop living a lie

>>379574492
I should've separate out my statement.

SFV is shit
MKX is dead (and shit)

>>379574308
>casual
Perhaps that is what really seperates players from each other. Everyone has different taste so that is where it boils down too.
Casuals might find it boring but for me, watching a KoF match in where you can see all the minute nuances the top tier players are trying to pull off, the meta that they're playing not to mention the perfect frame traps and spacings they do to pull of a neo max or climax, its just so good and hype to watch.

>Nobody decides to pick a fighting game because they cant wait to try to edge out their crouching HK.
A mistaken assessment considering I like my sweeps to be long and is either cancelable or has tons of block stuns. There is a reason why I liked Ryo Sakazaki very much.

>>379574513

Hey, I'm a casual player and I just noticed that Zangief requires 360 degree inputs in order to use his moves

explain to me in an easy to understand way how to do it without jumping and think about how much sense it will make to a new player

>>379574589
>he actually thinks the creator intended people to use wavedashing
Yes, because it's literally what they tell you to do when telling you how to play the game.

Next you'll tell me devs didn't intend for you to press B for your special.

>>379574615
Alright then.

>>379570917
Smash 4 had more entrants in evo in this year and last year too

>>379570020
It was already obvious someone just wanted to shit on Smash, but false flagging and answer to himself, it's just pathetic.

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>>379574513
>Tfw I play charge characters
>All of my inputs are easy as pie because it's basically just hold and flick
>Especially since I play on stick
>Tfw all of my friends think it's some elite complex shit just because they can't wrap their head around charging moves while in the middle of combos and other animations

>>379574696
You don't need to do a full 360 for SPD to come out, start with back on the stick, then do a circle motion until you reach up-forward then press punch, if you did it correctly instead of jumping the SPD will come out.

>>379574729

Okay, enough silliness

are you baiting me or do you literally actually believe that the devs intended for people to do multiple inputs per second requiring you to hold the controller in an awkward way, making the character on screen look fucking weird as hell (clouds puffing up around their feet all the time) and shuffling awkwardly across the stage, all for a relatively minor advantage in the eyes of a casual player...

you think this is the preferred, intended way the devs wanted people to play the game?

>>379574696
Dashing and inputing the 360 move is one way.
Pressing light punch in which you will input the 360 move while the animation of the light punch is playing.

I take it you're not good at grappler characters.

>>379574797
Maybe I'm simply thinking viewership then, but I know SFV's entrants topped the list so it can't have been far behind Smash 4 if at all.

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>>379574821
>tfw still cannot do Leona's Neomax combo

>>379574882
Dash + 720 is how I always did Hakan's Ultra1 in USF4.

>>379574840

So then it's not a 360 degree movement. Why is it written that way? Why don't they show it as a 270 degree movement? I don't recall hearing anything about this in the in-game tutorial. Sounds like you're describing something just a tad over a half circle input, why didn't they just make it a half circle input? does he have half circle inputs already for other special moves?

>>379574821
I completely forgot charge moves existed because charge characters are for scrubs with low iq

>>379574870
Are you baiting or do you literally believe devs programmed a feature and then told you to use it because it's a glitch they never wanted you to use, which somehow matters to you while them saying you should use items and that the game is a party game doesn't?

>>379569542
Smash isn't a fighting game, neck yourself scrub.

>>379574882

so you're basically telling a casual player they have to buffer a 360 input during other moves just to do the move? that's going a bit 0-60 don't you think? why should I have to do something I don't want to in order to do one special move?

>>379574696
You do a half circle and when you keep going towards up you press the button and it works you fucking retard.

I just finished all Vol. 2 trials. They were pretty cool and some of them were actually kinda hard.
How did you do, friends?

>>379575075
t. LTG

And yet you play Urien

>>379575075

I don't understand why charge characters are even a thing, so you have to move backwards in order to do them? or be blocking? isn't that like...telegraphing? why not just have normal inputs like the rest of the cast? seems like an arbitrary introduction of a new type of input that isn't really intuitive for no real reason

>>379575025
Well actually anon I'm glad you asked that, actually you see, what you think is a 270 is actually a 360.
See, what happens is that sticks work in a way that one input counts as 3 different ones, so if I say, I press 9 (up front) the stick actually also registers 8 (up) and 6 (front). So when you do 412369, both the 4 and the 9 register the two missing inputs (7 and 8).
Any other questions?

>>379575174

so then why don't they just make it a half circle input? and if it's not actually a 360 degree movement why do they say it is? don't they know casual players will be confused by this? it seems that you will be jumping if you do a 360, since you have to press up. this is extremely unintuitive and confusing, and frankly i have no fucking clue why this was allowed in the first place, much less has stayed the same for 20 odd years or whatever its been

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>>379575218
t. *PWAH* Kirby

New Flash:
Smash is garbage (every game in the series).
SFV is garbage.
The last good fighters were Marvel 2 and Third Strike.

>>379575250
Most charge characters are overly defensive (like Guile) or anime characters that use them in combos/pressure (like May or Venom) so it isn't that telegraphed, and even if it is, what the fuck are you going to do if Guile is downbacking? Jump on him?

>>379575426
>turd strike dickriders

>>379575250
It's not telegraphing since crouch-blocking is the default for players put on the defensive, and you can charge a move during any block stun, high or low. You can charge a move while jumping, you can start charging a move at the beginning of a combo and finish it with your special, you can charge a move during cancel animations, you can even begin charging something before the round has started and throw the move out the second the announcer says "fight" if you wanted to.

It's not conter-intuitive. In my opinion, it's a really fun little micromanagement element.

>>379575314

You see how this can be confusing and be a barrier for access to new players? there's a lot in SF that is just plain unintuitive and confusing, and the game seems to have little interest in explaining it

>>379575129
Yes, I am telling a casual player to buffer a 360 move during other moves just to do the move.

As for why I should tell a scrub like you to do something that you dont like, then I guess my answer is that you dont have too if you think you are too much of a noob player. SPD is a move designed not to be used by scrubs like you in mind but for players who wants a rewarding grab move for players who wish to risk a strong and avoidable move with the reward of devastating damage. If you dont want to input the 360 move, then dont. I am not your mother to tell you to do stuff when you dont want too.

>>379575349
Because it's casualized for retards who can't do an actual 360 you fucking nitwit. You can do 360s without jumping. Hell you can do 720s without jumping or buffering if you actually put your mind to it.

You being confused because they made it accessible to your retarded ass and complaining about it is fucking staggering.

>>379575474
Its fucking better than SFV or fucking smash.

>>379575426
>The last good fighters were Marvel 2 and Third Strike.
Not while Skullgirls 2nd Encore exists.

>>379575531
That's not what the post said.

>>379575491
Haha, buddy don't be silly, if I said to a friend
>Don't worry about that you just gotta do a 270
They'll go "neat" and not fucking care about the reasoning behind that, actually, any normal person would, you're just acting extra autistic for the sake of the argument.

>>379575518

Okay but like from a design perspective why have 360 inputs, why not half circle? like literally what reason would there be to put players through the difficulty of learning this confusing input without it being absolutely necessary

>>379575561
SGE is fucking shit my man, at least mention a decent game like UniST.

>>379575639
>the difficulty of learning this confusing input

Its not difficult at all.
git gud.

>>379575531
Third Strike is the worst SF, worse than SFV. I'm actually enjoying SFV in its current state but I think I'd rather play a Smash Bros game than go back to 3S. Thank you Third Strike for giving us Alex, Makoto, Dudley, and Urien, but it can stay dead for all I care.

>>379575702
Found the dude that can't parry.

>>379575680

You didn't answer the question though

>>379575748
Parry is a shitty mechanic desu.

>>379575645
>SGE is fucking shit my man
Nah, you're just retarded. SG was shit. SG SDE was shit. But it's been a great fucking game for quite a while now.

>mention a decent game like UniST
I won't because I haven't fucking played it as I don't live in the future, nor do you I imagine.

>>379575702
>Third Strike is the worst SF
It's so easy to spot you retards who just meme everything instead of actually playing games it's pretty amazing.

>>379575781
There's no question.
You're being difficult on purpose.

>>379575798

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7hkwbKmBM

>>379575639
The thing about SPD is that is a really damaging move "locked" behind a "complex" input so you don't do shittons of damage for free. I've never been a fan of 360's myself, not because they're hard, but because they're fucking easy to mash during defense

>oh my opponent messed up 1 frame in their blockstring? LE SPIN THE STICK LIKE A RETARD INTO GORILLION DAMAGE

Using a pretzel for Potemkin's Pot Buster is genius since you can't just mash it like a retard, best design decision.

>>379575748
>Using that as an argument in OS Parry: The game.

>>379570917
After nash vs nash vs nash vs mika all hype for sfv pretty much died. It got play because it was new, now it's not new anymore.

>>379575639
Risk reward, the 360 moves are designed for players looking for a hard to pull off move with rewarding damage. The same reason why the pretzel, another hard to pull off is designed in mind too.

>>379575852
You actually posted it lmao
It's a really cool moment, but doesn't change the fact that it's a shitty mechanic.

>>379575852
NO

FUCK OFF WITH YOUR EVO MOMENT 37 SHIT ALREADY

>>379575639
>put players through the difficulty of learning this confusing input
There isn't any, you being mentally handicapped doesn't mean the rest of us are.

>>379575852
That shit gets my hype every time.

>>379575897
>the fact that it's a shitty mechanic.
Not the retard who posted the video, how is it shitty exactly? I'll wait while you go get your opinions from /fgg/ or likely just formulate your next empty shitpost.

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>>379574308
>>379570434
>>379574870
>>379575129
>>379575250
>>379575349
>>379575491
>>379575639
>>379575781
>>379575908
You all should die with that shitty formatting.

>>379575867
It's far from dead. It stillgets more play than any other fighting game.
Except for new games for like a week. Tekken might actually maintain a good player base, because it's Tekken.

>>379575748
Thank fuck parry is dead. What a shit mechanic, I can't believe it was parroted by Third Strike fans the world over that parry "leveled the playing field" and that Third Strike "totally isn't unbalanced".

>>379575818
Played every SF barring the Alpha Series, and I started with SF2. USFIV is actually the best of the bunch hands down, despite its flaws and despite how much you Third Strikers tried to shit on every iteration of IV. Third Strike has a terrible roster, terrible balance, a more dated aesthetic than any other installment in the series and forgettable music to boot outside of some choice tracks like Dudley's theme.

>>379576018
The only reason SFV gets lots of entrants is because EVO doesn't do any other fucking SF game.

>>379575917

even if you're right, it doesn't answer the question of why it's necessary to be in the game, aside from making it artificially more difficult to play the game, especially for new players who will be understandably confused by it, realizing quickly that a true 360 movement would result in them jumping

>>379569542
>SFV
>blunder of the century
I think that title belongs to MN9.

>>379576042
Oh hey, a delusional retard who just parrots memes and thinks he's a real fighting games player since he started with SFIV.

>>379569542
You know what? This is a really reasonable post.

You made some good points like how you don't really like waiting around waiting for the punishment to end and you explained why in perfect detail. It's okay. That's just fine. The margin for error is pretty small against an experienced player and well you saying that is just being honest. Everybody knows getting pummeled again and again and again isn't fun. And most people want to win, right? On the other end you're supposed to try just a tiny bit though.

Here's the thing though, when I hop onto whatever game and have a bad day I usually don't tear into the genre and go on strange tangents to minimize why other people like it. That's usually the first thing people do right after they get their ass kicked. Others have been playing longer than you, you need to understand that.

>>379576089
>realizing quickly that a true 360 movement would result in them jumping
Except it LITERALLY doesn't. Again, you can even 720 without jumping.

>>379576089
>a true 360 needs to jump
Dude are you missing my post >>379574882 on purpose? You dont need to jump to do a 360.

>>379576120
Not an argument, and I also see you can't read since I clearly said I started with SF2.

The only reason one-on-one tittyfests are still alive are because tourneyfags keep it on life support. Why, I have no idea. The concept hasn't budged an inch since street fighter and the only additions were new graphics and waifus

>>379576075
Not true.

>>379575987
Makes fireballs mostly useless and fucks with the risk reward of most moves to the point that it deviates too far from Street Fighter.

>>379576182
Protip: Both his post and the post he quoted are him, he's just fishing for (you)s with a simple samefag.

>>379576135
>This is a really reasonable post.
It's really not, he literally states he knows nothing about this genre or the games in it, that he sat down at games he knows are touted for having depth and after 10 minutes gave up and decided they're shallow garbage.

>>379576232
Except for the fact that parries are hard to pull off and require strict timing.

>>379576182
>>379576176

That may be so if you're well versed in the mechanics of the game but certainly for more casual players I doubt they'll be able to do this easily, at the VERY LEAST you have to admit that the danger of accidentally jumping is quite high unless you're well practiced in that kind of input, which obviously most novice players are not

i guess we'll just say that the 360 input is an intentionally more difficult input meant to be more satisfying for seasoned players since frankly im tired of discussing it

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>You have memorized button strings that you throw out once the situation arises in which your opponent is incapable of defending themselves after a hit.

That's why you defend yourself before the hit, faggot.

>>379576185
>I clearly said I started with SF2.
And I said you started with IV. Your memes and lack of any argument doesn't magically mean you've altered reality. And let's pretend for a second you've been playing since SFII came out, so what? You've clearly demonstrated you have no clue what you're talking about, so it means fuck all.

>>379576319
Are you braindead? You can OS parry in the game, the only hard ones are red parries.

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>>379575426
2 broken and unbalanced fighting games... yea sure

>>379576319
They do and that's what makes them cool and interesting.
I don't see how that changes anything, though.

>>379576438
There's those memes again.
Why don't you explain why you think they are broken and unbalanced?

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>SF5 has more input lag than ShaqFu

>>379576232
>fucks with the risk reward of most moves
Parries lose to everything blocking loses to.

>it deviates too far from Street Fighter.
Oh, so different is automatically shit now. Every fighting game is that isn't called SF, and even then only the ones you like, is shit because they're different. Good logic.

>>379576376
Why don't you try dismantling anything I've said for a change? Let's forget for a fact that every character in Third Strike is a boring piece of shit design-wise, about the fact that most of them aren't viable in the first place? The game is completely dominated by its top tiers and I've had Third Strike fans try to tell me that mastering parry levels out that discrepancy. It doesn't. But if you can detail to me exactly how Third Strike isn't a broken mess and why parry is an enriching mechanic without invoking "muh Evo 37", then by all means do so.

>>379576501
>Why don't you explain how MvC2 is broken and unbalanced
Dude what, like 5% of the cast is viable in the game, how isn't that broken and unbalanced?

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>>379576319

I'm not the guy you're talking to, but they're really not. If you make a read and know a move is coming, parrying it is trivial, and if they know you know and decide not to do it, then nothing happens because there's no parry "whiff" animation. It's very low risk and very high reward and pushes SF3 to be a far more aggressive game than any other SF by far.

Whether or not that's a good thing is down to the player.

>>379576350
>the danger of accidentally jumping is quite high unless you're well practiced in that kind of input
Nope. It didn't take me more than a few tries to learn how to not jump doing a 360, and some modern games literally have 360 detection that prevents this happening at all.

>>379576563
So you've never played it.

Can anyone explain to me why sim can completely whiff st.hp and still recover fast enough to anti air jab.

>>379576501
ok more than half the cast are unusable in both games with like 3 characters usable at high level.

>>379570434
IM NOT THE DUMB NIGER YURE THE DUMB NIGGGGGG

>>379576376
>>379576501
>every argument against me is a meme from people who don't know what they're talking about because I say so

>>379576508
>Parries lose to everything blocking loses to.
The risk is still not very high.

>Oh, so different is automatically shit now. Every fighting game is that isn't called SF, and even then only the ones you like, is shit because they're different. Good logic.
Never said this. I love Third Strike but I hate how people like you dickride it like it's the best shit ever just because of muh parries.

>>379576250
>It's really not
Me and you are different in that I came to read what he had to say and understand where's coming from meanwhile you came with the intent to tell him he's dead wrong no matter how he feel. I empathize with him on the lack of fun that arises when there is a huge disparity between skill sets. Yeah OP's kinda being a baby but at least he tried to elaborate. He gave a fuck, I'm happy. He also didn't call them "shallow garbage", you're kinda putting words in his mouth.

You could take from OP that he doesn't being challenged and call him a scrub and this that and the other but maybe there's more to it than that?

>>379576627
Both of those are untrue.
You've played neither game.

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>>379576605
Are you for real

>>379576586
>games have actually started to alter the code to detect 360 inputs and prevent jumping

do you see what i mean about how 360 inputs are not necessary and only serve to make playing the game more complicated

they could have avoided needing to literally alter the game code in order to detect 360 inputs by, you know...making them half circle inputs.

im a dangerous amn with some money in my pocket

>>379576679
Because most members of the cast are viable as shown when someone high level actually chooses to use them.
YOU'VE NEVER PLAYED THE GAME.

>>379576548
>about the fact that most of them aren't viable in the first place
Stopped here, again, you memeing about means fuck all, retard. Everyone who isn't Twelve and Sean are completely viable. Japan still plays the game, co-op cup has big turn out every year and by players who've been playing the game near 20 years now and a fucking Alex, considered barely above bottom in every tier list ever, took the fucking tournament, not to mention every character was well represented except the two I already mentioned.

>>379576691
>do you see what i mean about how 360 inputs are not necessary and only serve to make playing the game more complicated
Yes, anon, that IS the point, see >>379575858

>>379576573
This, pretty much.
It's kinda like how retards compare how easy it is to parry with Ryu's V-skill in V to how hard it is to parry in 3rd strike.
The thing is, Ryu's V-skill is a mechanic unique to him and it's a lot more risky than a parry in 3rd strike because if you miss you have an actual animation that can be punished on reaction, while in 3rd strike you just walk forward a bit.

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explain this.

>>379576657
>The risk is still not very high.
This isn't remotely true.

>hate how people like you dickride it like it's the best shit ever just because of muh parries.
I love how you just randomly say this as if it means anything when it's the opposite of anything I said. Good job, fuckwit.

>>379576753
You're spouting a lot of bullshit but I'm literally looking at top 8 lists right now, from recent tourneys, and they are wall-to-wall Ken, Chun, and Yang. Your game is broken, move on.

>>379576250

OP mentioned that he likes games with combo breakers like Blazblue because that prevents the "wait for your opponent to finish their combo and taking away half your health" thing

whether or not you agree with such mechanics is a very important matter if you ask me. surely you can understand why many players are turned off by fighting games when they play online or something after a cursory dip into the built in training parts of fighting games only to get hit by a standing LP, then get thrown into a 10 hit combo into super combo that annihilates their health bar and the only thing they did to deserve it was literally get hit

>>379576719
MvC2 is a solved game at this point, if you don't use Magneto, Storm, Sentinel, Doom, Strider or Cable at high level you fucking lose.

MvC2 is good, never said it wasn't, but it's broken and unbalanced to shit, where's my Amingo? My Shuma Gorath? My Roll? My other 90% of the cast?

>>379576507
https://youtu.be/L-6GM6UVZSQ?t=319

>>379576658
>Me and you are different in that I came to read what he had to say and understand where's coming from meanwhile you came with the intent to tell him he's dead wrong
Oh wow, you totally made shit up and put it in my mouth to pretend you're better than me because arguing on this board is all you have in life and you need to project that on everyone else.

Also you should probably learn English since you plan to continue embarrassing yourself like this.

>>379576667
no i know how tiers work and even the people that love those games know that they are broken games, but i know it was because there was no patching.At the end sf4 had better balance that those fighters ever had, marvel 2 is specially broken at least in 3 strike you can mitigate the balance with the parry mechanic.

>>379576810
Wasn't talking about your post there, I was talking about previous posts.
If none of those were you, then sorry.
You also literally assumed I thought everything that wasn't SF was shit, which is far from what I said or think.

>>379576753
Doesn't really mean even if more characters are getting results since the competition isn't as big now. Most of the best players moved on to newer games.

>>379576691
Go play Divekick, retard. You've been BTFO again and again. I don't care.

>>379576893
>the only thing they did to deserve it was literally get hit
>The only thing they did to deserve it was having bad footsies and defense, fuck the other guy for being better than me!
Why are casuals such fucking babies?

>>379576812
Yes, my specific example with proof and evidence is bullshit because you want to plug your ears and cry. Cool story.

>>379576893

Then play a game with a burst mechanic, like Guilty Gear. Obviously it's not that important because nobody fucking does.

Seriously though please play Guilty Gear, it's fucking incredible but the community is tiny.

>the only thing they did to deserve it was literally get hit

Wow fighting games punish you for getting hit? What a novel concept.

>>379576970
>>379576908
If you actually watch Marvel 2 you'll see those other characters get used.
But all your doing is parroting long dead memes.
Hell, Justin Wong was using Rogue in his lineup for a while some years ago when the game was still being played in America.

>>379576943
What I meant was that I get what he's trying to say and you're basically here to hurl insults and shut down anyone who agrees with him

get over yourself keyboard warrior, I'm not embarrassed in the slightest

>>379577054
Can you not be a faggot? Write like a person.

>>379576989
>If none of those were you, then sorry.
Alright.
>You also literally assumed I thought everything that wasn't SF was shit
You said something was shit because it made the game deviate too far from SF, if me taking your statements at face value bothers you perhaps you should work on your phrasing.

>>379577064
sentinel, storm and magneto are above and beyond all characters, maybe some cable but thats it.

>>379576989
>Doesn't really mean even if more characters are getting results since the competition isn't as big now. Most of the best players moved on to newer games.
Maybe you should actually go look at who attended, pretty much everyone short of Kuroda was there. Even big names in SFV like Haitani showed.

>>379577064
Of course I see other character being used, fuck sake I've seen Tizoc being used right fucking NOW in Garou even though he's borderline unusable shit tier in the game in A-Cho, doesn't make him good. I've seen Chikyuu beat top tiers with FUCKING AKARIS, THE CHARACTER THAT DOESN'T HAVE ALL GAMEPLAY MECHANICS INPLEMENTED, doesn't make him good. The fact that people use some characters doesn't make 90% of the MvC2 cast good

>>379577054

So do you think combos should be as long and as damaging as they are? wouldn't the game be more skill based if the combos were shorter, since it meant that you had to be more concerned with finding more opportunities to start combos, rather than building up meter and waiting for a single opportunity to do a single, long, devastating combo? at that point it's more about correctly inputting a combo than reading your opponent in order to find an opening, if you ask me, this is more important.

however i get that fighting games are much more about spectacle, that's why many of them are designed so that combos actually do less damage the longer they are

>>379577238
And? People still play the other characters. They are viable.

Just now I went back to Tekken Tag 2 to go through the move lists of a couple of characters and see how difficult it would be to remember proper cmbos with them.

It instantly put into perspectice for me why I switched to Street Fighter V and never looked back. That game is so much simpler, so much more streamlined, so much more elegant. It's so much better when victory in a fighting game depends on outsmarting your opponent rather then executing combos better. Does this make fighting games extremely simplified strategy games? Yes, but that's why they are so much fun!

I wish Namco hadn't ruined Soul Calibur, the first two games were exactly what I'm talking about but in 3D.

>>379577324
You mean viable at high level?

>>379577152
The irony is fucking thick here considering you dove in the thread to defend his statements from everyone, regardless of how reasonable they are, even if they provided sound logic you just attack them and claim random bullshit in broken English.

It's honestly hilarious.

>>379577357
Yes.

>>379577180
I didn't say "something" was shit because it deviated too much from SF.
If you want me to be more specific, I meant that I didn't like the mechanic in a SF game because it moved the gameplay too far from Street Fighter.

>>379577278
Sure, but they don't put the same time they used to into the game. This obviously makes the competitive level go down.

>most "real" fighting games only have a small amount of viable characters despite the fact that good balance is implicit in the idea of a fighting game
>smash 4's roster is nearly perfectly balanced despite having 58 goddamn characters
>traditional fighting game fags have the nerve to say smash isn't a real fighting game

fucking explain yourselves

>>379576893
When you don't have a reasonable reward for getting a hit, you get fucking DOA.

Nobody wants to be DOA.

>>379577374
Please show me an Amingo beating Clockw0rk's team then.

>>379576792
jokes on you cus SFV is 6 frames now.

>>379577514
I said most of the cast. Not all of the cast.
No one plays Amingo. Just like no one plays Roll.
However people do play characters like Ruby Heart.

>>379577374
i like your optimism, hope is the last thing to die.

>>379576792
>>379577525
lmao rekt

>>379577568
Show me Ruby Heart at grand finals please

>>379577371
yes, yes

more insults, this is a really great argument friend

>>379577584
If I wasn't an optimist, 4chan would have killed me years ago.

>>379577430
>Sure, but they don't put the same time they used to into the game. This obviously makes the competitive level go down.
Look man, I'm trying to be respectful but you're talking out your ass. A lot of people did not move on, or still play on the side, and you did not watch the fucking tournament, there was a lot of god tier fucking play, down to insane charge partitioning and a Chun literally doing instant lightning legs five times in a row with no attacks in between. And then it still got taken by a fucking Alex.

And even if this weren't the case how the fuck do you explain people like Kuroda, YSB, TM, Genki, Hayao, etc. existing the entire time the game was relevant and still existing now?

>>379577606
People don't play Marvel 2 in big tourneys anymore.
Usually just local shit that doesn't get recorded.

>>379577630
Again with the irony. I provided sound points and instead you just started rambling insults at me and failing to speak like a human being.

Seriously, I bet your family prays for your suicide.

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>>379569542
Because most of the time you're not locked into a full on infinite. Depending on the game, you're still always in the fight even when you're being hit. Take for example Skullgirls, which uses a damage scaling and break out system that attempts to prevent infinite combos. Namely, if you do a long series of hits, your damage will eventually peter out to a meager amount, which encourages using big attacks as punishes rather than a bunch of light hits, which puts you back into the game faster

As the attacker, you've got to keep an eye out for this scaling, where you are in the stage, your meter, know your character's specials, and so on in order to get the best attacks out. Then of course, you still have to pull it off. Frame-specific attacks are always a doozy, which sort of encapsulates the traditional 2D game's risk/reward system. Better players that pull off harder attacks get rewarded better. As the receiver, you have to know many of the same things, while also thinking about how you're going to react once you get up. Are they going to go the shitter route and do a wake-up special? What mix-ups can you avoid? Can you confidently pull off a reversal in your situation? These things can come into play at any time, so if you're just watching, it's your fault if you get shat on

A similar thing kind of occurs in Killer Instinct, where the attentive receiver who has a basic grasp of fundamentals can break out of a combo, while the attacker has to know not only his inputs, but keeping an eye out for the combo meter and a bunch of other shite. Half of it is memorization, but that's because you can do a lot of shite. It's why 2D fighting games are called the "real" fighters, because Smash ends up only having half of it. Sure, there's a lot of analogous things, but it's mostly working thrice as hard for a basic mechanic. It has mechanical complexity, not depth. Things like wavedashing and DI stem more from the lack of controls you have for attacks and reactions

>>379577052
>What are outliers and anecdotes

>>379577806
>wrote all that shit in response to b8 by smash players

You should feel bad.

>>379577723
Oh it's okay you can show me old footage, knock yourself out, please.

>>379577836
The only other choice was to play video games

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>>379577315
I mean at this point you're basically just asking for them to buff everyone's health. After all, there's no difference between a 100 damage combo doing 30% or the same combo doing 15% other than the length of the round.

Going on this principle, when you say

>wouldn't the game be more skill based if the combos were shorter, since it meant that you had to be more concerned with finding more opportunities to start combos, rather than building up meter and waiting for a single opportunity to do a single, long, devastating combo?

You're actually correct without realizing it, because this is exactly why tournies are double elimination best of 3/5, or why people do setplay. The more time spent playing, the more accurate the outcome of the match will be.

The reason it's not like that online is because people (especially casual players) get really salty when they lose and just want to get the fuck out as soon as possible, or win and just want to run with the points.

So instead of complaining about combo damage, start complaining about shitters who don't want to play it out.

>>379577716
Are you seriously arguing against the fact that an older game that a lot less people play now has become less competitive?
When the game was more relevant the results show that, for the most part, only a handful of characters won important tournaments. That has changed because only people who really love the game play it at that level now. So the amount of high level players is a lot lower, which means the competition isn't as strong.
I'm not trying to shit on the game or anything, but this seems pretty obvious to me. Besides, older games always have had worse balance because it's harder to patch a game without an internet connection.

>>379577839
Meh I'm too lazy to go find old footage.
Also I don't care enough about this argument to comb through old youtube vids for an hour.

>>379577445
balance has started to be better thanks to patching, a luxury that arcade cabinets didn't have, you where lucky to get a revision only.also a game will all 30 ryus should be perfectly balanced, but it would be ass.

>>379577831
>annual tournament with nearly every relevant 3S player ever
>outlier and anecdote
You are so delusional it's fucking adorable.

>>379577890
>not playing video games WHILE participating in this shitpost thread

I'm expanding my italian territory in EU4 while calling people shit for not liking 3S.

>>379577806

OP here, I appreciate this response, I was hoping to see more replies like this, thank you. I can see how this can get more involved once you've been well versed in how the game works, it's too bad the bar to entry is set so high

>>379577918
Oh anon but if your argument held any weight to it it would be really easy to find footage of around 48 characters other than sentinel, magneto, storm and cable, right?
It's okay, this is an anonymous imageboard, you can just admit you're wrong, no harm done, buddy.

>>379577915
>only the hardcore people play it now
>this means the competition is easier
This is nonsense.

>when the game was relevant
All the players I just listed and more still repped bottom tier characters and got results. Kuroda alone destroys your statements entirely.

And don't start claiming I ever said 3S was greatly balanced, it's hard as fuck for those bottom tiers to even stand next to Chun or Yun, but that doesn't mean they can't, because they fucking have. Hell, Hayao plays fucking Hugo, usually on tier listss only above the two """unplayable""" characters and he eats Yuns for breakfast.

>>379577940
>Alex one once in a sea of Yangs
>Not an outlier

>>379578126
I don't think you understand my level of Lazy.
I'm 37 NEET that sleeps 14 hours a day.

>>379571501
I support Tekken, but why do Steam charts matter? Fighting games are primarily console and it's pretty muched agreed on they're only released on PC when the online community is dead and the devs want more money.

>>379578231
>they're only released on PC when the online community is dead

Which is sad because the PC version is always the best version.

>>379578202
>Yangs
Further proof you have no idea what you're talking about.

>taking specific bits of an entire statement and arguing against them solely
I don't know why you even bothered replying, this is flat out admitting you gave up already.

>>379578231
I believe the implication is that if it's that healthy on PC, then it's an incredibly strong indication of the health of the community overall across all platforms.

>>379578152
It really doesn't sound like nonsense to me. The "most hardcore" players love SF3, while other players like Daigo, Haitani, etc. maybe love SF in general more, which is why they moved with the series, plus the fact that they want to move with the competition, which happens to move with the series as well.
I agree that other characters can win, I'm just saying that it's easier now that less people play the game at highest levels compared to before.
There's not a lot of point in arguing anymore, we can just agree to disagree at this point.

>MK shitters pretending netherrealm is a good developer that makes good fighting games
>little shitters trying so hard to pretend he is legitimate player of games and not a shitter pleb

>>379578356
>I'm just saying that it's easier now that less people play the game at highest levels compared to before.
And again, I ask, then why were they capable of winning before too? You just slip away from this every time.

>>379578460
They didn't win as much.
Again, I'm not saying it's not possible, but look at the results for pretty much any EVO. You're going to see a lot of the same characters with a few exceptions.

>>379578556
>They didn't win as much.
Kuroda didn't win as much? Is this a joke?

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>>379577783
>Seriously, I bet your family prays for your suicide.
I can say for a fact that we're both very bored and are probably just talking to each other to fill in the blank spots of whatever activity we're doing on the side. I do find it amusing that you think you're good at this. You're like if someone threw a bunch of hackneyed expressions and copypastas into one person. Tell me, where's the irony again?

how's your love life anon?

>>379578301
Which is a load of nonsense.

>>379578631
>where's the irony again?
In the entirety of every post you've made so far, except maybe the spoiler because I have no idea about yours.

Happily married. Given the 90% chance you'll break out the cuck meme for that one this conversation sure as hell isn't likely to go far. And yours?

>smash babby talks shit about real fighting games
>200+ replies

oh /v/, never change

>>379569542
while street fighter v and mortal kombat are both not very good games, they are, at least, fighting games. the whole point of a combo is that it's punishment for not playing neutral correctly, similar to how dying in a DOTA game works- but instead of being out of an hour-long game for a minute at a time, you're taken out of a two-minute long game for four or five seconds at a time. once you get better at the things that actually matter in fighting games (which you have not expressed any opinion on), you start to think about combos differently.

>>379569542
Leave a Smasher to boil tournament FGs down to combos and how fun they are to watch.

>>379578779
>retard looks at the post number and assumes they're all replies to the OP
Never change, /v/

>>379578603
Not him but Kuroda winning with shit characters doesn't mean anything, he's so much above anyone else.
It's like saying Potemkin is a good character in Xrd because FAB somehow manages to get by with him.

>>379578783
>once you get better at the things that actually matter in fighting games

OP here, one thing I'll say as far as this goes is that I watched a 25 minute defense tutorial video for SF5 and the guy said basically you're going to want to crouch block every time unless your opponent is doing a jump attack or overhead. this struck me as fairly odd since he also said that jumping to attack your opponent in an amateurish move, so that means you're not gonna see a lot of that in high level play so that means you're only ever going to need to do a standing block if they do an overhead, which strikes me as a very unbalanced share of defensive options and thus not good game design

but hey i could be wrong

>>379569542

You picked the two shittiest fighting games possible, pokken has more competitive merit than SFV. And >mortal kombat

Just play GGXRD or Tekken

>>379578746
sporadic bouts of casual sex. nothing worth writing home about

yeah i have no life, and i type really lazy. it shows. i agree with OP because when i drop a fighting game and come back my rustiness makes turning it on in the first place almost pointless. I'm usually bound to lose that is until I get the adrenaline back anyway.

>>379579004
>GGXRD

see

>>379573312

guilty gear is likely one of the worst recommendations you can give to someone who wants to try to get into fighting games

>>379578995
SFV is criticized for it's lack of defensive options.
It's actually one of the biggest problems with the game.

>>379579004
kek

Funny that this thread would have this discussion. Street Fighter V really puts into perspective the problems with other fighting games.

>>379578990
>It's like saying Potemkin is a good character in Xrd because FAB somehow manages to get by with him.
Except that's not like that at all, in fact it's the exact opposite, since I'm saying the characters are shit, not that they're good.

>>379578995
street fighter v is a game notorious for its lack of defensive options. furthermore, you're coming from smash, which has basically no defensive options.

but, you are exactly right, that generally, most mixups in street fighter are not difficult to block. this means that the game is more about baiting out mistakes and punishing them.

>>379578995
next time you try to theory fighter your way through an entire game's design by taking points from a Youtube video, please realize you're being retarded and stop

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>>379569542
I can do incredible combos in most fighting games.
Combos that deal over 50-70% od the opponents health in damage.

I get to acualy use one in a real; match vs serious opponents once every 5 games.

Combos are not the core of a fighting game they are a rare case where you get the effect read and do maximum punish on your opponent.

There are pure combo based fighters also but these are highly unpopular outside of specific communities.

>>379579083
GGXrd has one of the best tutorials available in fighting games. Also, you don't have to know how to utilize every single mechanic in the game right off the bat, and you don't have to know optimized combos, simple ones into knockdown and oki work just fine.
The biggest issue is finding someone around your level to play and it's not too hard if you join a discord or something.

>>379573312
guilty gear is a dated sack of assorted mechanics. they started out with a terrible game, and just kept adding shit and adding shit until it "worked" in XXAC. they removed some, but not all, of the extra shit in Xrd, and then added different shit, and held over some real arbitrary difficulty.

If you want a really good fighting game, try Skullgirls, or something made by Examu. note that these aren't necessarily easier, they just have an actual philosophy behind the way they're designed.

>>379579082
Since I'm getting nothing out of the argument side of this anyway I'll bother with something that might give me something interesting.
>sporadic bouts of casual sex. nothing worth writing home about
If I may ask, what is that like exactly? I legitimately don't know, I've literally been in 2 LONG relationships since I was about 15 with very little time in between, so all my sex has been pretty wrapped in those, the current one has brought another girl into the bed when an opportunity presented itself, and that's the closest I've had, I don't feel like I'm particularly missing anything (other than when I was 15 there were a couple lays I could have had and do regret deciding against), but I am curious.

Another one that thinks fighting games are about combo's and strings

Spend a year in training mode, learning every combo to perfection and I assure you any semi pro player will destroy you with normals and one special

>>379577445
low tier doesn't mean unusable. tiers are a breakdown of your odds of every character against every other character, assuming those characters are used at the top known level. I say "known" because new tech and skill barriers often appear well into a fighting game's lifespan and rearrange tiers noticeably. by the way, the tech I speak of is always found by people who actually play the game, so you'll find characters who are considered low at the outset of a player's career, but they go and play them anyway, and plays them so effectively in major tournaments that they end up moving up in tiers.

tl;dr tiers are not set in stone nor are they an objective basis for a game's balance especially if you're not actually good

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>>379569542
There is stuff call "baits" and mind games. thast part of the game.
If you want to see some stuff explain really simple about fighting games, watch the videos in this channel dedicated to fighting games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSgA_nK_w3A

This video may not be related to what you are having problem with, but sure others will teach you something

>>379578995
Holy shit you should design street fighter 6

>>379577445
smash 4's tier list is more concise than brawl or melee's, but it's still not close to the balance of a modern fighter with "bad" balance like SF5 or BBCF. most games these days only have three or four tiers at most. it's a far cry from games like 3s and MVC2 that had half the roster unplayable from a competitive standpoint.

>>379579424
simply put, not being in a relationship is like running around aimlessly and fooling with random women. some women you may sleep with once, others you may sleep with twice and they'll just disappear. Women who you frequently go back and forth are like potential girlfriends who you can do things with, if you want to take it that far. I might be describing flings. Either way I'm like a hunter gatherer of sorts.

>>379579659
That video is not great desu
Love the channel, though

>>379578995
I saw a guy say that you literally couldn't play Smash without exploiting glitches, so obviously Smash are bad the bad game. Pls wait for my thread were I put this in paragraf phorm

>>379579663
>makes one obvious observation about defensive options after watching some shitty youtube vid
>wow you are so insightful!

go samefag somewhere else

>>379579659
>baits and mind games

OP here, as I mentioned I have been playing smash for a while, I'm very familiar with baiting and mindgaming, esp. since i'm a bowser main who relies more on mind games and reads than other characters. that's what really gives me a thrill in fighting games, the mind games. same reason i enjoy playing tennis

for me the long combo strings in traditional fighters are really more of a nuisance than anything, since that's not really what I enjoy doing in a competitive game

>>379579749
How do you just approach random women though? I'm assuming you're an adult and that concept is a bit beyond me, hey, I'm on 4chan, social norms being beyond me is supposed to come with the territory, yeah?

The first long relationship came from a long prior friendship, second one honestly kind of fell into my lap, still not sure how. The missed lays were also friends at the time, at school obviously. The girl my wife brought into bed had been a friend of hers for sometime and was drunk. So yeah, approaching random women and getting sex is not something I've had experience with.

>>379579985
but once you get better, these aren't a large part of the game. right now, you and/or your opponents are at a low level, where lots of mistakes are being made, which means there are lots of opportunities to do big combos. once you clean up your game, and start fighting players who also play clean, there are less opportunities to do big combos. do you understand?

>>379580149

I understand what you're saying but that doesn't match up with what I think I know about the game, since as far as I know if your opponent is helpless, you're free to unleash as long of a combo as your character is capable of doing, since there are no combo breaker panic buttons like in blazblue.

in other words, one mistake is all it takes...you make it sound like less mistakes = smaller combos? is that because with less mistakes you can't build meter in order to do long combos?

>>379579985
I think it's a rewarding feeling to find the opportunity and land an approppriate combo successfully

>>379580256
you can't do the same combo off of every hit in street fighter. a combo off of a jab is different than a combo off of a jump-in roundhouse. so the mistakes that people make are smaller, their spacing is better, the risks they take are fewer. there are less opportunities to do combos and the combos that you have opportunities to do are shorter. this is not as true in anime games, but you're playing street fighter.

>>379580063
>How do you just approach random women though?
they're not random in the way that you're thinking. i don't just walk up to them like Johnny Bravo. You go somewhere and meet them, or you're somewhere doing something. Some of these women are coworkers, others are people I knew in high school/college, or friends of friends. Depending on how lenient the girl is, I can drop a simple "wanna come back to my place?" and it all just happens from there. Other girls will give that look of disapproval and leave in a hurry or reply with "I'm sorry, what?" because again the direct approach shocks some people. Playing with odds can have some blowback. Now completely random women? I've yet to put the moves on girls walking around the grocery store or supermarket, that just sounds difficult and potentially embarrassing.

>>379580356
That is absolutely true in anime fighters too, you're not always gonna get your heavy counterhit corner combo on a punish.
Though you have a lot more flexibility in anime games, if you have the resources, you can do something bigger out of smaller situations

File: maxresdefault (1).jpg (100KB, 1360x768px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 1360x768px

>>379579985
also you have to manage your resources in most fighting games, they have special bar that could be use in different ways.
and most of the time you have just 1 chance to put a special during a match, so you have to be smart with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGrIR_jlLno

>>379580482
in most anime games, you can spend some sort of meter to turn most small hits into big combos- whether that's through RC, through overdrive, homing cancel, extend force, assist calls, or any other mechanic i don't care about

>>379574615
Lived Longer than Injustice 2 which is even more shit.

SFIV is shit.
Guilty Gear is shit.

>>379580470
Alright, thanks for indulging my curiosity, heading off.

>>379580649
Yeah but you don't want to do that every time and even if you do you put yourself at a meter disadvantage, so it's basically the same thing as in Street Fighter, you get situations of varying advantage after blocking different stuff at different spacing

The most daunting thing to newcomers in fighting games, from the complaints I've heard a lot, is that people go in and immediately want to exhibit raw skill. And because it's so immediate in a fighting game, where you can see the results of the "how good am I" hypothesis within two-to-three 99 second periods, the hindsight of the new player kicks in at the other player's win screen and tells them, "I just lost really bad and nothing cool even happened. This game sucks."

The problem with this reasoning is...it's a video game. The act of playing it is what constitutes your experience with it. And the double-edged sword of tournament fighting games in particular that is both its greatest merit to its fans and what puts newcomers off so badly, is that understanding the game's rules is a purely adaptive process. You don't go in with cliffnotes in hand and expect that to determine the outcome of your session, neither in your likelihood of winning nor how filled you feel by the experience. The match starts; you have officially entered world 1-1. That other dude over there, he's the course design. You know your controls. Apply them to the best of your ability. That's all there is to it. If you're playing Sonic and you learn there's a spike wall at the end of a slope, you're not going to keep running into it now that you know that it's there, right? So stop jumping in when you get knocked out of the air every time. That thing you tried out that yielded good results, keep at it and play around with it. It doesn't matter one bit if you have no idea how or why it does what it does. That'll come in time.

What's so off-putting, but also the beauty of the genre, is that the player's capacity for adaptive learning isn't confined to a level, or a zone or whatever. It's constant. Every second on the clock, pixel on the lifebars, those are your window for trying new things and building on your experience with the game.

>>379580731
Same to you. Peace

>>379580939
look man, i'm sorry that you're upset that i suggested your favorite game has longer combos than street fighter. but there's no need to argue about this. because of magic series combos, many anime games allow you to turn a small punish into a big combo. it might be that in whatever arcsys fighter you play, shorter combos are short. but, chances are, they're not button->special short, and in games like marvel 2 and 3, skullgirls, arcana heart, melty blood, under night in-birth, and hokuto no ken, even light punishes often lead into long combos. i'm not talking about a specific situation, or trying to insinuate whatever game you play has a problem. stop being so defensive.

>>379581087
i love this post

>>379581295
I don't even mainly play anime games, I was just saying that what you said in this post >>379580356 applies to anime games as well as SF, because you were implying it doesn't.
Yes, the anime combos in general are longer than in SF, but you get shorter combos from less risky situations

>>379581087
(cont.) It's like a boss fight in any other game. You walk into it with a certain skill set, and you fight this dude with their own set of skills. Throughout the course of the fight, maybe multiple attempts, you figure out what he might to do fuck you up and then determine your best answer for it as the fight goes on. Congratulations, you're exercising fighting game know-how and you don't even know it. You realize that the boss is limited in certain ways. That's true for fighting games, too. Any given character can only ever do what's facilitated by that character's design. No matter how good someone is, they won't be able to add moves to who they're playing in the middle of a match. What makes tournament FGs noteworthy is that this aspect applies doubly in both the character and the player himself. Figuring out the player's own patterns and learning how to deal with them, even punish them, is a special kind of satisfying that no other type of game can achieve quite so well.

This all might fall on deaf ears in OP's case since he's probably familiarized with this school of thought from playing Smash (call it basic but it's still very much a game of real-time adaptation), but /v/ seems to have a lot of posters who give up on fighters for the intimidating barrier of entry. It REALLY isn't so bad. It's just another video game in the end, either way.

>>379581535
In many games, like marvel 2 and 3, skullgirls, and hokuto no ken among the ones I mentioned, even light confirms can deal 50-100% without much trouble. I said "not as true" in anime games, as in, small punishes are more likely to lead into big combos than in street fighter. Do you really want to contend that as a broad generalization, punishes in anime games are as short or or shorter than street fighter?

>>379581686
Marvel games are anime games? In Marvel, sure, you can pretty much TOD from everything. Also old kusoges like HnK, sure. I'm mostly talking about modern airdashers.

>Do you really want to contend punishes in anime games are as short or or shorter than street fighter?
Did you even read the post you replied to? I'm not arguing that at all

>>379581848
yes, marvel is a modern airdasher. if you're not trying to argue that, why are you correcting me?

>>379569542
I mean I was with you until you implied that smash is a better game.

>>379581943
Because what you said in >>379580356 is true for anime games as well and you were implying it isn't, like I said already?
I just wanted to correct that small point and you go on about how combo length is bigger in anime games even though this wasn't about that at all

>>379582136
oh, i was assuming that you were actually reading my posts. i was discussing the length of combos with OP, and how in street fighter you can basically never get a long combo from a jab, but in anime games, you oftentimes can. but if you aren't going to read my posts, i'll stop responding after this.

>>379582303
Ok I admit I didn't get the context

>>379582520
thank you, i appreciate this admission

How do we stop being a laughing stock and reclaim our past respect capbros?