FPS Mechanics We've Lost Over the Years

>>379512139
Shadow Warrior
Wolfenstein

Level desing

Immersion effects. Metroid Prime is still one of the best-looking games ever made and feels comfy as fuck, it was so cool looking up at the sky and having little raindrops accumulate on samus's visor, or hopping out of water and seeing water stream down the visor, or fogging up when you pass through steam or condensation building up on the inside of the visor in a hot area. It was such a cool effect and it pisses me off they didn't just never bring it back, but cut it entirely for the trilogy rerelease.

>>379512237
there are quite a few mechanics that meshed together from what I've seen. Most notably level design, hidden items/secrets, and non-regenerating health. Remove one of them and the whole tower crumbles it seems.

>>379512139
advanced movement mechanics like strafe running, bunny hopping, and strafe jumping

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>>379512837
R O C K E T J U M P

HE'S GOT A SPLIT PERSONALITY!

Non linear level design. Multiple paths of exploration on the same level heighten replayability.

>>379512837
Retard, you couldn't even jump in old fps like doom

>>379513620
you could strafe run and wall run in doom retard
shut the fuck up if you don't know what you're talking about

>>379513620
Is Quake not old anymore?

>>379512139
level design that isn't arenas and corridors

>>379512139
You half the man you used to be!

>>379512837
>build FPS
>diagonal movement makes you go faster

>>379514660
i wouldn't have it any other way

>>379514660
That shit is inexcusable.

>>379514660
>>379515414
what's the goal of the game?
Be realistic? Or be fun?

Not all games need to be realistic to have great mechanics. I sure as hell am not going to complain about doom or shadow warrior letting you get down to single digit HP and then collecting some medkits to get it all back, no matter how unrealistic it is.

>>379513660
>

>>379512237
/thread

>being able to hold a whole arsenal of weapons, all with their own uses depending on the situation/enemy
>generally much faster movement speed
>having a large variety of enemies to battle, which have hitscan, melee and projectile attacks, among others, to allow for greater diversity of gameplay
>different combinations of these enemies along with their placement in level design creates very different gameplay scenarios
>the level design itself is more complex, have to find keys and navigate levels with backtracking etc, rather than walk down a linear determined path triggering irritating gameplay stalling cinematics along the way
>focus on pure arcade gameplay with stat tracking at the end of levels, endlessly replayable
>lack of regenerating health not only makes the campaign more interesting from a gameplay perspective, but also makes the developers put even more thought into the level design with regard to item placement
>similarly ammo management was more important and developers also decide on item placement
>old FPS's also included power ups like invincibility and others along the way as bonuses
>generally a much more imaginative setting with the focus on fun, rather than now where we mostly see dull military styled FPS
>no ADS bullshit slowing shit down

level design is basically a lost art

>>379515735
hey, I wasn't complaining, just wanted to point out another interesting movement quirk from those days

>>379515414
How is it inexcusable most shooters of the era have the same thing.

The biggest loss was without question the loss of enemies that use projectile and melee attacks. There's absolutely no variety to the enemies these days.

related

>>379517296
fuck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q6UQ2QlRH0

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>>379512837
>advanced movement mechanics like strafe running, bunny hopping, and strafe jumping

It's not like those were intentional parts of the game design. They were glitches that the players were forced to exploit. Modern games might not have these "fun" bugs, but that's a natural result of today's games being made better and at a higher quality.

>>379518207
what makes games fun is accidents like that and many of them are incorporated as official features like strafe jumping or skiing in tribes
monster infighting was an accident as well

>>379518207
>better
>higher quality
>less fun
Mate I would love a toke of yours, sometime

>>379512235
Shadow Warrior has some really cool ideas but the level design is pretty average compared to Duke Nukem 3D.

>>379517403
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzVLoCGDRH4

>>379518640
duke nukem 3d had the best level design out of all the build engine games
i would have to give weapon design to blood

>>379518207
>forced to exploit
eh, no. you don't have to exploit them, at least not in single player. but if strafe running makes you go faster why wouldn't you do it?

btw bunnyhopping and rocket jumping in quake 1 were not intentional, however the community figured it out and id were fine with it. if that shit happened in a modern game, it would have been patched out immediately. id software however appreciated shit like that because they knew it was a fucking game and that mechanics like those only made their game deeper.

and by the time they quake 3 rolled round they had built a multiplayer game entirely with rocket jumping and bunnyhopping in mind. really shows how different developer mindsets are now when compared to the past.

>>379513620
>all old fps are Doom
Jesus christ you're a fucking dipshit. Don't forget to breath retard

>>379518660
>lmao most of the shit you said is completely biased and nostalgic based

Is leaning still a thing? I haven't played many modern games, but the ones I have played didn't have leaning.

>>379518914
quake 3 actually had a cap on number of strafe jumps you could do before they got a shit ton of fan mail complaining

>>379518460
but dude if I don't have a 1000hz monitor at 5080p games don't look as good

>>379518640
>the level design is pretty average compared to Duke Nukem 3D
well it's a clone of duke made by the same devs. Duke is to die hard as Shadow Warrior is to Hard Boiled. Iirc Blood was the same way for the horror genre.

>>379512139
ZILLA SENDS HIS REGARDS

>>379518914
>id were fine with it
Exagerration. Carmack threw a bitch fit because his game was supposed to be about big space marines like Ripley running around and shooting big guns. The idea of them bouncing around screaming HUNH absolutely disgusted him to the point where he completely removed air control in Quake 2.

>>379512139
- crouch jumping that really never took off beyond goldsrc titles, but was enjoyable nonetheless.
- Useful crosshairs (now it's just mandatory aiming w/ iron sights all the way through the entire fucking genre)

I think that's it

>>379519132
Prey 2017

>>379513023
i don't like harming myself in order to move efficiently - i don't know why but it just disgusts me on some biological level

I played the turok 2 steam release and that game had me rock hard throughout the entire play through. Any other old games out there that would scratch the same itch?

>>379519623
yeah but quake 2 is gay. everybody knows that game was shit. quake 1 and 3 are the real candy.

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You can list specifics all day but the final point is those games were made by small groups of indie people designed for smaller audiences that valued mechanically driven games. As gaming grows more popular it has to appeal to more people to compensate for the insane budgets. People dont want to learn a game (which is why arena FPS died) people want to press a button and have something cool happen, watch a cutscene, and engage in simplistic combat that amounts to
>hide behind wall
>point and click on enemy
>oh no gernade, I must move to a different wall
>oh no enemy with more health with a shotgun, I must prioritize him
>get hurt
>sit around and do nothing
>after combat follow straight line level filled with set pieces non gameplay orientated
Fact is its easier than crafting a level that guides the player through resource incentives and goals like locked doors. Managing a large inventory, weapon mechanics, movement mechanics (something as simple as acceleration based movement like in Shadow Warrior) all too difficult for the broad mainstream audience. So thats why FPS games suck now and those mechanics were lost.

Pic related, not an fps game but an example of dumbed down mechanics from a classic to modern game.

>>379519623
>carmack threw a bitch fit
why do you exaggerate and lie when all of carmack's news posts for quake 3 are archived

>>379519820
confirmed for having never played quake 2 if you honestly believe that the game was a lot more popular online

>>379518207
>It's not like those were intentional parts of the game design.
>he doesn't know that half of brilliant game design involves stumbling upon an unexpected bug
GET OUT

>>379519792
try out Tron 2.0, my man

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>>379514660
>Vanquish
>Boosting diagonally makes you go faster

>>379519964
lol kid I played Quake 2 at release in '97 when I was 11 years old

inb4 some petty neckbeard comment that 4chan always makes for god knows what reasons

but yeah quake 2 is ass

>>379519820
I actually like Quake 2, it's just a really brown Doom and I can get behind that. The pacing is way better than Quake 1, only downside to the game in my opinion is that stupid little blaster instead of having a melee weapon.
Never played it online though, and I'll admit it's probably just a mostly inferior Doom online.

>>379518207
>implying discovering a bug that you could practically use isn't fun
I'm the kind of guy that gets a boner when I find shit like side-hopping in Zelda or dodge roll spam in Kingdom Farts. Finding out optimal ways to move is just a part of the game, bug or otherwise, and that's fun.

>>379519792
No One Lives Forever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6pMEyeC3hM

Shadow Warrior(1997)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZWXsIlaT5k

Aliens Vs Predator(2000)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXYIDCfORXI

Turok: Dinosaur Hunter(1997)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt-2mcU2etc

Deus Ex, the Quake games, the Doom games, etc.
There were a lot of good vidya back in the day.

>>379520205
Quake 2 had the biggest mod scene out of any Quake and is a lot more active than Quake 1. Also Quake 3 was the weakest selling Quake game.

>>379520165
yeah sure thing kid i bet your toaster couldn't even run the game and your connection was too shit for online

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Level design is the single biggest difference.

FPS games no longer employ branching, explorable levels made with the intent of backtracking and re-opening new areas.

The DOOM/Duke/Quake 1 style of level designs made use of this. Levels weren't designed to be just "Played through", you had to explore them and find ways to open up other parts of the level that start in earlier areas. It encouraged creative thinking from both the players and designers. Enemies weren't the objective, they were the obstacle as you tried to further unlock the level.

Nowadays, the formula is "Go from this end of the decorated hallway to the other end, gunning down whatever's in your way, watch a cutscene, repeat for 8 hours."

It's a fucking travesty.

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>>379514660
>Descent
>6dof FPS
>moving in a trichordal diagonal makes you move 3^(.5) times faster

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I've spent the last week playing (more often than not) crappy 20 year old levels of Duke 3D and Shadow Warrior. SW definitely has a lot more high quality stuff.

>>379520165
shut the fuck up, quake 2 was awesome.

>>379520494
I disagree, I feel at the end of the day all the exploration and resource gathering exists to facilitate combat.

>>379521093
lol

>>379512139
>What fps mechanics have gone by the wayside in the last 15-20 years that made those old games better
you're a dumb hipster, they're not better, just more streamlined and with better level design in some cases

the visuals and presentation have gotten waaaaaay better
>>379514660
>>379515414
it's literally how four directional movement works, you have to add code to stop it from happening

>>379520165
>it's another babby talks shit about a game he barely played episode
I bet you're shit at Quakeworld too.

>>379519910
My god this webm it's depressing.

>/v/ used to hate iron sights
>now no one gives a shit
What happened?

>>379512139
Cod's fun as fuck online though

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>tfw you walk into walmart to get groceries with mom in the late 90s/early 2000s and see giant Quake posters covering the metal detectors to show off the new release

>>379521402
>they're not better, just more streamlined and with better level design in some cases
yeah bud and my neighbor Dave isn't a faggot, but he just likes getting fucked in the ass sometimes

>>379521402
>better level design
You mean the 41 flavors of grey hallways? Or are you easily impressed by fish AI?

>>379516141
Nailed everything right there.

>being able to hold a whole arsenal of weapons, all with their own uses depending on the situation/enemy
Resistance 1 and 3, Doom 2016 and I think the modern Shadow Warrior games still use it. Far Cry series as well(although you carry less than those game but at least you carry more than 2 weapons though). Yeah with more games did this instead of the retarded 2 weapon limit.

>the level design itself is more complex, have to find keys and navigate levels with backtracking etc, rather than walk down a linear determined path triggering irritating gameplay stalling cinematics along the way
Doom 2016 thankfully used this. Was neat going back to old school level design with keys and such.

>focus on pure arcade gameplay with stat tracking at the end of levels, endlessly replayable
Doom 2016 and Call of Juarez Gunslinger had arcade modes and arcade like gameplay with the stats at end of levels.

>lack of regenerating health not only makes the campaign more interesting from a gameplay perspective, but also makes the developers put even more thought into the level design with regard to item placement
Modern Shadow Warrior games, Doom 2016, Resistance 1 and 3, and Far Cry series thankfully used the regular health system(although Resistance 1, and Far Cry series had segmented health which also worked great). Wish more games used standard health system or more of the segmented health system.

>old FPS's also included power ups like invincibility and others along the way as bonuses
This was cool. Doom 2016 thankfully had this.

>no ADS bullshit slowing shit down
Doom 2016 delivered on that. Some guns though did have scopes. Counter Strike GO never had ADS either besides scopes(although CS GO is an enchanced CS Source with better graphics and extra features). Tribes Ascend lacks ADS(I think only sniper rifles still use scopes though which is fine).

Literally examples I mention where some newer games still had the old features.

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Can't speak for Quake, but I've put in hundreds of hours into Doom II and I kind of like how it can be thought of as a bullet hell rather than a shooter.
Shooting in Doom doesn't take much accuracy or reflex. Instead, dodging is the thing that players get good at when they progress through the game.

>>379521756
that dead horse was beaten so severely that it has turned to wonderful soil for growing our pizza spices in

the presence of iron sights in a game means there is more rng, which everyone acknowledges as being a bad thing

>>379521916
they're not better overall
>>379521985
there are some levels in doom 1 that impressed me with their variety and pacing

>>379512237
This, only its gone from all games now which is fucking pathetic

>>379512139

Who wants Wang?

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>>379522038
Doom 2016 sucks. They may have gotten some things right, but it's so far from being a real old school FPS.

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>>379522038
>This was cool. Doom 2016 thankfully had this.
>tfw finding Quad fucking Damage in Doom

>>379519910
It's kind of sad that games like Borderlands, although through the game you get better items/regening health pieces, it has a better flow than most fps games.

Funny enough, it still has the large inventory, weapon mechanics, small but simple movement mechanics, and flexability to adapt to situations.
The best fights however are in open areas where you get the option to move around freely rather than chokepoints. There's only 3 chokepoint areas I can think of in the game, including the second. The writing is terrible however.

If Borderlands 3 comes out and has the same movement as say the new Doom or Quake, it would be way better.

>>379522038
>Counter Strike GO never had ADS either besides scopes(although CS GO is an enchanced CS Source with better graphics and extra features)
CS is where most of the shit people complain about in this thread either came from or were popularized by. It didn't improve the FPS formula at all, it only lowered the skill ceiling thus becoming more easily accessible and edging out more skill based games.

>want to play a good online FPS
>look around at my options

>you got counter strike. fucking hated it the day it came out nearly 20 years ago, literally has not changed at all since
>you got CoD, which actually looks pretty cool with all the wall running and double jumping and stuff. but worried when the new yearly release drops the player base will shrink
>BF3/4/1 is still BF:BC2 with less content and features so fuck that
>overwatch is basically a moba, fuck that shit to death
>titan fall is on some dumb launcher instead of steam, that alone turns me off. looking up it's player base numbers turn me off more, I'd like to be able to play outside of just after school/work peak hours
>F2P games out of the question, every single one is Pay2win or Pay2notgrind. unacceptable
>and that's it

welp I guess after all these years, CoD proves itself to be the only decent shooter out there
if that WWII CoD coming up keeps the cool movement systems the newest CoDs have, seems like that's going to be the best I can get

>>379522238
Care to name some modern shooters?

>>379523138
Quake Champions, fuccboi.

>>379522238
>they're not better overall
in what way? Because the new ones are shiny? Hell, Michael Bay's Transformer movies are shiny. Needless to say I'm not going to imply they're nearly as good as the Predators, Robocops, and Rambos of the world.

>>379522664
>romero fanboy
Hugo Martin is the new swarthy guy. Cmon dude get with the program.

>>379523138
>f2p games
TF2 is not one of those pay2wins, but the MyM update is killing it.

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>>379522994
Nothing in CS is carried over to modern military shooters no idea why people say this.

>>379523138
Quake Live, Reflex, QC, CPMA, Quake 2, and Quakeworld all still have players.

>>379522854
I used to love Borderlands but on replays I realized, theres projectiles everywhere but the movement speed is just so slow you cant dodge them. It would be a fun as hell run and gun game if they simply made the sprint the default speed, and implemented more upgrades that increase speed.

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>>379512139
LEVEL DESIGN

Doom and Quake might have been made of blocks and blocky staircases because that's all we had in the 90s, but man those blocks sure meant something compared to the vast, endless amounts of generated "realistic" ground that just doesn't do anything.

>>379523172
new doom, new wolfenstein, COD
>>379523287
the rock and john woo's hollywood films are better than any of those though

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>>379512237
Agreed, the problem is, the current level design tries to stick to a real architecture of what its representing, Old FPS games, due to technical limitations, couldn't do that, so developers had to be more creative when it came to overall level construction. I mean, the Downtown level on Doom 2 barely resembles a suburban area, but its one of the best the game has to offer.

>>379523434
>Nothing in CS is carried over to modern military shooters no idea why people say this.
Slow movement speed and inability to shoot accurately while moving.

>>379519593
You move like a pregnant yak

>>379523205
wannabe moba shit? no thank you.
plus, arena shooters will never come back, they will stay dead.
plus plus if I wanted to play quake, I'd play fucking quake live or 3 or the other million quake clones out there.
I'm sick of quake, fuck that game. I'm not interested in becoming some comp master. I just want to shoot people casually
>>379523318
TF2 as in team fortress or titan fall? if team fortress, can't play that outside peak hours. literally one good server and a billion trash trading/idling/mario kart/24/7 2fort servers. even that one good server isn't good, it still has random crits, no adjustment to weapon spread, and has all kind of donation perks to it. team fortress 2 died a long, long time ago.
>>379523434
>Quake Live, Reflex, QC, CPMA, Quake 2, and Quakeworld all still have players.
yes, between them all they have a grand total of 20 guys playing after they get off work. oh and they play every day. have been for years.
surely in a game like arena shooters where you can completely shut someone down if you know how and have skill, a new player will be welcomed and have fun.

>>379522038
>CS GO is an enchanced CS Source with better graphics and extra features
It's not even important but where the fuck did you get this idea.
GO has less to do with 1.6 and Source than those games have with each other

>>379523493
And made things not take 4000 bullets to kill.
Devs really need to realize that more+harder hitting enemies will always be superior to bulletsponge enemies.

Devs need to think more about "gamefeel" in general, it's what keeps me from still going back to games like Doom, even though I have almost no nostalgic feelings from it and I never grew up with it, just because it's fucking satisfying to play.

>>379523754
The good side about arena shooters for beginner is that they're incredibly simple. Getting up to a level where you can play against the usual players doesn't take much time. Becoming really good at the game is what eats away all your free time, not learning how to play it.

>>379523836
I think this is one of the potential issues with an fps moba like battleborn

Also my main issue with borderlands 1 and 2

>>379523693
neither of those were exclusive to or done by CS first

>>379523754
quake live is full of noobs and same with reflex

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>>379523754
So what do you want? The most casual shooters are moba type ones, since those are easier to learn, and thus, more friendly towards new players, but oh shit, you dont want to play that because DURR MOBA SHIT.
But you don't want to play high level games like Quake Live or Reflex either because DURR 2 MANY PROS MAN.

>>379523971
The snipers being relatively okay for killing things with few hits is pretty much the only reason I managed to get though BL1.

Still haven't even been able to get through BL2 once. Then again that fucking game never ever wants to quit, it's would actually be pretty impressive, if it wasn't so god damn boring.

>>379524067
Name another game as popular that did it before CS.

>>379524241
action quake 2 :^)

>>379524113
Not him but I can see where he's coming from. In OW the shooting aspect is far less important than the power aspect most of the time and it makes the game fairly boring.

TF2 had the ultimate balance between fun class abilities and shooting IMO.

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>>379523617
>the rock and john woo movies
>better than Predator and Rambo
*REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE*

>>379523641
Have you too read that article by that guy?

>>379524113
it's always the same they bitch and moan about modern games but refuse to actually play them because "they're too dead" or "everyone is a pro now" when in reality they're bitch ass scrubs that played quake 3 at school once and suddenly think they're an authority on FPS

>>379524315
try at least half as popular

>>379523836
Borderlands is actually pretty deep on the third or fourth playthrough. Theres still bulletsponges but strategizing your upgrades can make your damage output high enough that theyre no longer an annoying flaw they were on the first playthrough.

>>379524394
rambo is barely even an action movie, it's a character drama about brian dennehy and sly stallone

have you even seen the rock, con air and face/off?

>>379523958
it's not fun when the only people playing are basically gods compared to you. I'm not going to waste 50 hours of my life to get to the point where I can just stand my ground against them.
arena shooters are dead, out of the question.
>>379524113
I want to shoot people with lots of options on how to do that with fun movement systems. Last good FPS I played was tribes ascend, and that went to shit quick like all F2P games.
I don't want moba stuff where there's characters like in OW and newer CoDs ith their card bullshit. I just want something like the newer CoD's movement systems, or titan falls movement system, slapped onto something with lots of different guns and items. Basically, slap jetpacks, wall running, and neat gadgets onto BF:BC2. that's what I want. I want the mid ground between baby moba games and pro 1337 arena shooters.
Why doesn't that exist anymore?

>>379524315
>as popular
cs was the most popular multiplayer game in the world back then.

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>>379518207
Fighting game combos were literally a bug in SF2:TWW.
Now shut your ignorant mouth.

>>379524596
>50 hours
seriously, try 5. quake is incredibly intuitive to play. they even have autohop these days and it's actually not worse for it, you just hold space and go.

>>379524483
AQ2 was extremely popular but games less popular than CS (because CS is still one of the most played games) that had it would be rainbow six. If anything MoH:AA started the modern military shooter.

>>379523493

That's how I feel, the movement is slow as ass mainly due to it was brought about with the console in mind first, but if it even had the movement speed buff you could get for Axton, but full time, it would have been glorious. Hell I used to just play Axton so I could run fast in combat. but once you play the higher difficulties you can't move fast until you put 9000 rounds into 1 enemy, it starts to suck.

>>379523836
This too. Borderlands main issue was there was no counter-play to getting shot at other than "hide behind wall like moron" or hope you had enough shield/health not to get downed instantly. It would have been nice if they had dodging or even EXPLODING KNEES like vanquish to hop around with.

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>>379512139
Soul.

>>379524868
>WW2 game started the modern military shooter
go fuck yourself anon

>>379524757
I'm not talking about base mechanics. I'm talking about being able to not get killed the moment you spawn all game long by a guy who's been dedicating his life to arena shooters since he was 7, and he's 35 now.
I don't want to play and play and play til I memorize item spawn times, player spawn zones, master routes to run to get items and maintain speed and all that jazz. I just want to mindless run around and shoot things without getting completely and utterly shit on. And arena games are not good for that, I've tried. You can only do that on people who have no idea how to even play arena shooters, anyone with a brain forces you to do map control and all that bullshit. Fuck that, I just want to spawn, hold W, and then click M1 on fuckers. Call me casual all you want, but fuck putting in real effort into my mindless entertainment. If I'm going to put effort into my entertainment/media, I won't be doing it in things made for kids. I'll pick up a good book, or hell, even a good movie.

>>379525114
>I'm not talking about base mechanics. I'm talking about being able to not get killed the moment you spawn
that is base mechanics though

it's not that hard. don't play if you don't like the game itself.

>>379525049
all of the mechanics in modern call of duty and battlefield stem from early CoD and MoH:AA
you can like those games but that's where they come from
the only other games that play like counter strike are asian MMOs like combat arms or if you want to go way back there were a few shoddy knock offs in the early 2000s like legends of might and magic

>>379525114
if you're getting killed the moment you spawn you obviously don't know the basic mechanics

>>379525341
>don't play if you don't like the game itself.
I don't. Arena shooters aren't bad or anything, but they're not for me. So with that, what other shooters are there?
Pretty much none as far as I can tell. WWII CoD coming up here is my only hope. And odds are, it won't have any of the stuff I think is good from the newer CoDs like wallrunning and double jump. It might have that slide, but that's not enough. Unless they have very good map design and weapon options.

>>379525345
Of course MOH matters, but the point is, and all it ever was, the mechanics we're talking about came with, and were popularized by CS
It had already been going around for a while when Allied Assault came out.

>>379525114
> I won't be doing it in things made for kids. I'll pick up a good book, or hell, even a good movie.
Why do people that don't like games post on a video game board? If you want mindless fun go outside and start sprinting. At least you'll get some big ass thighs out of it.

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>>379512237
I'm going to post this image, even though it's about Alpha Protocol. I've seen it in recent FPS games too, Hard Reset being the worst offender.

What's terrible about Hard Reset is that not only is it constantly blocking you from going back to previous areas of the level, but those locked doors are always right at checkpoints, and it will often show you a secret you missed right after that door closes behind you. It's like the game is saying, "guess what, loser? You missed this. Restart the whole level if you want a chance at finding it."

All this from a game that claimed to be styled after "classic" FPS games. Someone show me a 90s FPS with checkpoints and a never-ending stream of doors that lock behind you, cutting you off of the rest of the level.

If you want to know how to do this and not make your game shitty, look at Wolfenstein: TNO and TOB. Whenever there's a point of no return, you can see that it is actually a point of no return. It's usually a pit you have to fall into or some object you know you can only move through one way.

>>379513479
>>379512237
>>379514346
I really want to recommend (shill) this game I tried recently:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/304850/Worlds/

The level design is better than anything I've played the last decade. This game has no business being so nice.

>>379525697
mechanics such as??
tell me anon have you ever heard of delta force

>>379525559
>Unless they have very good map design and weapon options.
>weapon options
M1 Garand in gold/red tiger camo with a drum mag, an ACOG, and a foregrip.

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>>379525831
Actually meant to post this image but forgot.

>>379525814
video games were made for mindless fun. what, you think video games are on the cutting edge of intellectual stimulation? lmao go jump around with your mario or click on shit on you computer nerd

>>379523138
>>379523172
Murder Miners is surprisingly amazingly good.
It even has completely unique movement glitch tech. Look up "overjumps" and dominate scrubs.

Enemy variety and non-regenerating health. Really gave the old games a difficulty you don't see anymore.

Personally I'm fine with ironsights, weapon carry limits, and no bunnyhopping or whatever, if it's a game aiming for a more realistic approach, but enemy variety getting severely gimped and health becoming a regen thing, along with ultra-linear level design, grind my gears.

>>379525853
>mechanics such as??
read the chain

>>379525897
Yeah that's what kinda has me worried. Unless they go full retard like BF1 did, it'll be the same old WWII guns we've all seen and shot a billion times now.
The more I think about WWII CoD that's coming up, the more I realize it will probably be shit, marketed with that "so old school" shtick video game publishers love to push.

>>379526249
so you havent heard of delta force because its much closer to your average battlefield/cod game than counter strike ever was despite being older

>>379525897
STG-44 with a kobra red dot sight, laser sight, extended drum mag, silencer.

>>379525831
That reminds me I was playing SiN episodes emergence earlier. I wanted to backtrack to grab some health but a ledge I had jumped off of earlier was too high to reach. I was about to scream but then I noticed a little handrail next to me. Jumping onto the handrail gave me just enough height to get back up, at which point I got the health and found a secret that gave me more alt-fire ammo and some extra health, and caused flying soldiers to spawn that stole the extra health from the secret before I shot them down. I cannot even imagine whether the placement of that rail was intentional or not.

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One thing that I've noticed is that many modern FPS games is that most of them don't do interesting weapons or enemies. To me it seems really obvious to have a varied set of enemies and weapons that play off of each other in different ways depending on how the level is built, what enemies are present, etc. When you play games like Doom, Shadow Warrior, Blood, Half-Life 1 this is very noticeable. Those games had memorable enemies with unique attack patterns which could cause interesting possibilities. Weapons too. Enemies and weapons are just as important as the level design, perhaps even more so. If the basic gameplay isn't even fun or open to possibilities, it doesn't matter how complex, original, or detailed the maps are. Start thinking about unique weapons and enemies. This is the real key to FPS.

>>379526393
everyone fucking hated delta force

>>379526156
I just looked that up. Are you fucking kidding me? This minecraft with guns #192716 game? It looks horrible and you should feel horrible for even bringing it up.

>>379526502
they clearly didnt when it was so popular

>>379523754
>yes, between them all they have a grand total of 20 guys playing after they get off work
You're an idiot.

Here's a list of great MP shooters with hundreds of players online at any time:

>Quake
>Quake 2
>Quake 3
>Quake Live
>Unreal Tournament
>Unreal Tournament 2004
>Unreal Tournament 3
>Fistful of Frags
>Half Life 2: Death Match
>Golden Eye: Source
>Cube 2: Sauerbraten
>Warzow
>Serious Sam HD
>Murder Miners
>Ace of Spades 0.75 (buildandshoot.com)

I think these are alive, too:
>NOLF
>XOPS
>Fear Combat (you need to go on the fan community pages)

>>379526095
>videogames were made for mindless fun
>quake requires greater effort to play than what I want to put into it
>this isn't a contradiction at all

What's next, Chess is just a dumb memorizing game clearly intended for children to play?

>>379518640
>>379518780
What is so good about it? I never could get into Duke because the weapons feel so weak that it's no fun to play. I hate the shotgun in Duke. Doom really spoiled me. Shadow Warrior is a ton of fun though. I much prefer it over Duke Nukem. I like the character better too. You no mess with Lo Wang!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1k8oHxM_6Y

>>379526685
>Serious Sam HD
Not them, but that's wrong. What kind of shitter-run community kicks for killing them with a knife?

>>379526538
>This minecraft with guns #192716 game?
It has nothing even remotely to do with Minecraft.
It's got shitty graphics, but the gameplay is Deus Ex mixed with Metal Gear Solid, and the world-building and exploration is amazing.
It's also got a lot of character interaction and quests where what you say/do actually matters.

Love the atmosphere, too.

The fact we have lost secondary fire for ADS makes me mad.

Here are some things you guys might have missed, which have great level design:

>Arcane Dimensions
>WGRealms 2
>Minerva

>>379526685
>>Cube 2: Sauerbraten
not them but damn I remember what it felt like to be a kid and try to find some free games online then run around in bizarre rooms with enemies who never fought back and how weird that felt

>>379526685
>NOLF
I finished NOLF 1 just a couple of weeks ago. Tried playing NOLF 2 now, but it crashes to desktop randomly after every time it loads a new map. Usually when flicking a lightswitch or activating something. Fucking annoying, and there is no fucking fixes anywhere.
Anyone got some tips? I'm even considering building an old Win XP PC from some parts I've got lying around.

>>379526685
you honestly believe that at any time of the day, you could get a full or at least nearly full game going on a normal server not full of dumb rules or weird mods?
I've tried most of those games, years ago, they were dead than. I highly, highly doubt they've gotten any more popular since than.
You are talking to someone who considers anything less than 10K players at any given time, whether it's 12pm, 3am, or 5pm, to be dead as fuck. Where I live, you are lucky to find a game in a popular game like OW. Finding a match in OW takes at least 5 minutes, and that's the biggest shooter on the PC supposedly.

>>379527147
>enemies who never fought back
Wat. The singleplayer maps are just test maps, afaik

Everyone plays instagib, and the netcode is amazing.

>>379520494
>explorable levels made with the intent of backtracking and re-opening new areas.

i don't think the removal of backtracking is a particularly bad thing with modern games, though I do hate the lazy bethesa way of adding a 'secret' exit that spits you back to the beginning of the dungeon. Backtracking was good in games like thief because it meant getting the loot was only half the battle, escaping was another. but backtracking is simply tedious when its a non-arcade style of game and you won't be fighting anyone on the way back to the entrance.

>>379526894
well crafted levels designed with multiple entrances and various ways to approach encounters unlike doom which is practically a puzzle game with how you approach encounters
the weapons aren't weak you just have the mindset that pigcops are equivalent to shotgun guys the douk shotty is quite powerful and accurate and the pistol is far more effective than doom up to mid range

>>379527278
>you honestly believe that at any time of the day, you could get a full or at least nearly full game going on a normal server not full of dumb rules or weird mods?
yes

>You are talking to someone who considers anything less than 10K players at any given time, whether it's 12pm, 3am, or 5pm, to be dead as fuck.
I guess I'm talking to a literal retard, then.

>mentioning "OW"
Just kill yourself, you waste of space.

>>379526270
that's what happens when every damn gun is made to be the exact same mechanics wise. They become boring, because clicking a mouse, hearing a bangbangbang, and then seeing a dead russian/german/arab laying on the floor is fun for only so fuckin long ok.

if COD's new ww2 game had throwback weaponry like Zweihanders, shurikens, kamikaze style bombs, or blunderbusses for MP then it might be fun. But as it stands running around(rather slowly, mind you) like a chicken with your head cut off and shooting your chrome leopard camo kar-98 at foreigners is not fun for very long. Blowing their limbs off with forks and spoons jammed in a blunderbuss? That's fun.

>>379526398
>Winchester Model 94 mare's leg with grenade launcher attachment, glowing neon blue forest camo, extended banana mag, and full auto firing capabilities.

>>379527278
Quake 2 has vanilla deathmatch servers hit 16/16 every day and I have to join less crowded servers.

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>>379512139
Easter eggs and secrets, real hidden secrets.
Also entire secret levels or a level from another game. It was not limited to FPS games but I feel the immersive side of those games made those secrets passages really interesting.

Some games still do them like Rage, Shadow Warrior 2013 and Wolfenstein TNO but in a more lazy way and you rarely feel like you've discovered something special and well hidden.

I remember how you'd look for anything out of the ordinary on walls, under desks, or you tried to walk on every ledges that seemed to lead to nowhere, etc.

>>379521686
If you said that before Mania reveal, I would've agreed. But fans can fix Sonic team's mistakes

>>379527461
>>Winchester Model 94 mare's leg with grenade launcher attachment, glowing neon blue forest camo, extended banana mag, and full auto firing capabilities.
I puked a little in my mouth. Thanks.

>>379527456
>mentioning "OW"
>Just kill yourself, you waste of space.

well done anon you're fitting in so well!

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>>379527524
>not posting the tank commander with iron maidens

>m1911 with full auto conversion, drum mag, silencer, laser sight, acog scope

yeah it's sad. new FPS are so shit. we'll never get fun, gameplay based shooters, we'll just get cinematic shit from now on. makes me sick that nuDOOM gets praised even though it suffers from so much of the modern FPS syndrome.

I just want more games like duke3d.

>>379527682
You're not.
Maybe you should go back?

>>379527632
np

>>379527708
>no akimbo
fucking casual gtfo

>>379527761

why would i give a shit about fitting in on an anonymous website lmao

>>379527412
>you just have the mindset that pigcops are equivalent to shotgun guys
Wow, are you a mind reader? I hate those fuckign pig shitters so much.

>the douk shotty is quite powerful and accurate
I respectfully disagree.

>the pistol is far more effective than doom up to mid range
No doubt about that. The Doom pistol sucks ass but that's what the minigun is for, so that you never really have to use it except for when it's the only weapon you have available.

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>>379512139
They were designed for PC, rather than consoles.
Notice something that the games in pic related have in common?

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>>379512139
I miss the edge... and being underage

>>379527757
>yeah it's sad. new FPS are so shit. we'll never get fun, gameplay based shooters
Many good indies around these days, Anon:

Arcane Dimensions
Worlds
Turok 1 & 2 ports
Fistful of Frags
Golden Eye: Source

>I just want more games like duke3d
WGRealms 2

>>379527980
accurate, but replace painkiller with serious sam. painkiller is a pretty garbage series, even the first is overrated too.

>>379527965
you respectfully disagree but you are wrong it kills pigcops in two shots and is accurate up to large distances
the shrink gun can 1 hit kill all mini bosses as well

>>379527412
I don't know what you mean about encounters though, the Doom games have lots of instances where you can approach enemies from different doors/directions and use different strategies against mobs.

>>379527920
>lmao
You're not helping your case.

>>379527980
Doom is the best game on that list and is on basically every console ever. Furthermore it was designed with heavy auto aim as a core feature. Platform means nothing.

>>379527461
>Blowing their limbs off with forks and spoons jammed in a blunderbuss?
so random

>>379526409
blood's weapons are great

http://webm.land/w/KBhw/

>>379527980
>TF2
What did you mean by this?

>>379528173
You are retarded.

>>379528095
>Turok 1 & 2 ports
bought them, they're great but are just ports after all.
>Golden Eye: Source
don't care about dead source mods, or MP only FPS.

>>379527708
Blood Money was a good game.

>>379528192
vents, doors, cracks that you can blow up for an extra entrance all done in ways the doom engine cannot handle since you can't do sector over sector or really any verticality on the same level as duke

>>379527980
Halo CE is good and original Painkiller really isn't. CoD 2 is okay.

>>379528178
That may be but it's still just no fun to shoot. I just don't like the Duke weapon. None of them feel beefy or fun to me.

>>379528202
and you still seem to be stuck trying to call me out on not fitting in as if that's some sort of insult.

>>379528307
You are the retard. SS > PK in every way.

>>379528224
Doom was not designed for console kids. The auto aim was only because of keyboard controls, classic FPS stop developing games around that as soon as mice were widely used.
The fact is that FPS got shitty and keep getting worse thanks to consoles.

>>379528469
More than being an insult, it just explained why you're being a retard.
You're literally too stupid for video games.

>>379528576
>You are the retard. SS > PK in every way.
SS is just stupid casual fun in open fields with 15 other retards in coop.
Painkiller has actually good gunplay and decent level design.

>>379526685

Most of them are played by hardcore players who play that game for 10+ years. Those games can't get new players because new players will be stomped instantly.

>>379527278
>less than 10K players
That's really fucking retarded. I play Day of Infamy a lot and it's usually under 1k and guess what? I don't give a fuck as long as I find even one full server.

Labyrinthine level design
Weapons that cover a wide gamut of attack vectors -- hitscan, projectile, melee, how wide of an effects the weapon has like a giant ball of plasma that hits the whole screen

>>379528224
Have you SEEN the console ports for DOOM?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGIye6Bkxvw
Imagine if the PC version of the game was truncated to play like this. That's literally what would happen to the game if it were released today.

>>379528629
>saying lmao is an explanation for someone being a retard

senpai it sounds like you just hate popular internet terms. do you want me to say 'haha' or 'heh' or 'i found that humorous' instead? maybe i should spend 5 minutes digging around in my meme folder for an appropriate laughing anime girl

>>379512837
Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare
Titanfall 2

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>>379528224
>Furthermore it was designed with heavy auto aim as a core feature.
Fucking kill yourself. There is no z-axis in Doom, hence why the autoaim. I wish mods would ban faggots like you.

>>379528816
>Labyrinthine level design

pretty much the worst part about older videogames, wandering around the map for an hour after everything is dead trying to find the section of map you missed is NOT fun game design.

>>379528750
You can just not be so butthurt about it. It's not like people are going to yell at you for being bad, because it's not team-based.
Often, you'll find the veterans are super eager to help noobs out and teach you how to navigate a map.

That said, if you wnat noobs to fight, there are piles of them in
>Fistful of Frags
>Half Life 2: Death Match
>Golden Eye: Source
>Cube 2: Sauerbraten
>Serious Sam HD
>Murder Miners
>Ace of Spades 0.75 (buildandshoot.com)

>>379528379
I hate vents because they are so slow to navigate. Doom had doors. I'kk give you cracks but they are basically just doors you open by shooting at them, Doom had those by the way. It also had very extensive use of teleporters and lots of transforming structures.

Everything you listed is just about navigation though, unless you literally mean approaching an enemy through the vent as "various ways to approach encounters". The only unique part to Duke about that is the vent crawling which I would not put down as a positive.

>>379522038
>Far Cry

stop mentioning those games the newers ones have regen health now anyway

>>379528750
no they aren't
t. someone that actually plays those games

>>379528857
>so mad I have to put it in the name field
Okay, retard, you can go now.

>>379529003
There's additional autoaim beyond infinte height.

>>379529060
Doom had transforming structures? It had elevators and that's that. Duke had the San Andreas Rift level where an earthquake changes geometry, IIRC.

>>379529003
>no z axis
Explain, if there is no z axis along with x and y then it can't be 3d
Even though the graphics are all 2d sprites the environment itself is three dimensional, you have lenght, height and width

>>379529060
doom does not have those
it does not have the arsenal of duke nukem either with pipe bombs, freeze guns, shrink rays, and jetpacks
i can't be bothered to argue with someone over the merits of a 21 year old game

>>379527980
spot on list. only adjustment i'd make is cod 3 on the left instead of 2. glad that garbage never came to pc.

>>379529160

is retard the only word you know

>>379529179
Probably because you can't see shit with the original resolution.

>>379529236
It's not a 3D game you nigger.

>>379529236
there's no z axis to aim you idiot. No one said there wasn't a z axis in the game at all.

>>379529343
Since you're obviously not very good at this, how about we just return to topic?

Explain why you need a game to have 10.000 players online at any given time for it not to be "dead"?
Are you literally retarded, or is there any logic behind this?

>>379528727
SS had more than one good game.
You can't say the same about PK and that's a fact.

>>379529587
That's true enough, but Black Edition is better than all the SS games.

>>379529236
Z axis in Doom is kinda like a bumpmap, no objects can be directly above one another. Most of the logic is 2D.

>>379529426
Hold on, what do you mean "there is no z axis to aim"?
You mean you don't have to compensate for distance (distance alone, not distance+enemy movement)? That's with pretty much all games nowaday (unless you go into the extremely autistic simulation stuff with bullet drop and zeroing and all that)

A diagram would help, mostly to act as a "common dictionary" of sorts

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>>379512139
Imagination, depth, mechanical mastery, artistic focus over commercial design ethic, lasting appeal...
When you think about it, those older shooters were a lot more like Japanese video games while the newer (shit) ones are more western.

>>379529236
The entire game IS laid out on just x and y; the z-axis is faked and rendered with shortcuts so it can run decently on a 386 CPU.

>>379529519

im not even the guy who started that conversation i just thought it was pretty childish of you to call him out simply because he referenced overwatch.

imo i think a game is dead if it only has one or two servers close to full at any given time. games like that you always end up playing with the same people over and over again so things get stale.

>>379529762
So you are intending the z-axis as the "vertical" space? The one that separates "up" from "down" in relation to the player's character PoV?

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>>379518207
>that pic
It's fucking everywhere.

>>379529878
Sure you weren't.

Just go home.

>>379529720
I mean you literally cannot aim up and shoot directly at the monster you want to kill. You line the y axis of your gun's barrel up with the monster, shoot at them, and then the autoaim makes the bullets fly either up or down to the imp you're wanting to kill.

The game's environment itself is 3D. The aiming and shooting part is only partially so, mainly due to autoaim.

>>379529195
Bridges coming up, constantly moving floors, rooms within rooms disappearing into the ceiling etc.

>>379529265
>doom does not have those
Yes it does. The second level of the first Doom has a secret door that only opens why you shoot it.

>it does not have the arsenal of duke nukem either with pipe bombs, freeze guns, shrink rays, and jetpacks
It didn't say that it had all that gimmicky shit. Just that none of the weapons feel satisfying to use, which they don't.

>>379529910
Yes. No two things can actually exist stacked on top of each other. Also, weird stuff like monsters biting you from the top of an elevator can happen.

>>379529685
PK has cool aesthetics and feel but enemy design is really bad and so is encounter design. It's a fun game to relax and shoot shit at, though, so if that's what you want it's really good, I guess.

>>379529991
>Bridges coming up
That's just elevators.
>rooms within rooms disappearing into the ceiling
What?

I actually don't like Duke's weapons either, btw.

>>379530226
>enemy design is really bad and so is encounter design
That's what I'd say about SS.

All the enemies look like shit, and they just throw an army of them at you in open fields. There doesn't seem to be any thought behind it at all, and there's really no challenge at all, as long as you kite them.

>>379528826
that's quite impressive considering its running on snes desu

obviously nothing compared to the real game but impressive for a 16 bit console port

>>379530404
Enemy design as in, how fast do they move, how many health do they have, what kind of attack do they have, how do they work with other enemies.
>there's really no challenge at all
Play on Serious, it's at the very least more challenging than Painkiller, except maybe for some Painkiller bosses.

ITT: people who like arena shooters and backpedal simulators mad that their stale genres don't get more games.

you're also the same people to shit on any new games that fit into these genres saying the originals did them better, and you're probably right because both genres plateaued immediately. there is nothing else to be improved upon with games like quake, serious sam or thief because they were all simple concepts done well, and putting a bunch of superfluous shit in does nothing but take away from the core gameplay.

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>>379521686
That's more the exception than the rule when it comes to Japanese games. The phenomenon he's talking about is almost entirely exclusive to western titles.
WEBM related.

>>379530536
playing painkiller just felt like playing hellgate london without any loot.

>>379530735
I never played Hellgate: London!

>>379530603
stand in one place and soak up bullets while you kill russians with your m4 simulator IDF please leave

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>>379528816
>>379529006
I would not defend the "labyrinthine" part. There is a difference between wolfenstein 3d where a lot of rooms look the same, and Quake, where we have heavy use of 3d with noticeable landmarks. I believe the path to reach the exit should be mostly obvious. Not linear, but have the map naturally make you visit previous rooms and highlight where you have to go, maybe by clearly seeing new paths opening in front of you, or new enemies getting your attention.
However, getting more useful resources, such as weapons or armor, should require more clever exploration.

Level design, weapon variety, enemy variety.

Games that have 100+ weapons that basically do the same thing don't really have variety. Each weapon in the classic DOOM and many other Build games are extremely unique in their own way. Rocket launchers, shotguns, laser launchers and so on. A plethora of assault rifles in a modern game just work and feel all the same to use. You only have shotgun/sniper/assault rifle/smg in modern games now. Think of Duke's freezeray/shrink gun. When would you EVER see that in a modern FPS game?

As for enemy varieties, in modern games you only have regular AR mook and heavily-armored-mook you can't headshot. That's about it. You may get a vehicle or two to use an RPG on in a cinematic sequence.

I'm not even going to go on details about how the DOOM enemies are so varied, even when there are quite a few of them.

>>379532327
>in the classic DOOM
Chaingun is literally pistol with automatic fire function.

>>379512139
Just play Urban Terror, you don't need modern shooters.

Also
>OH LOOK YOU ARE COMING APART

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Don't worry OP, with the release of CasualWatch we're only going to get more dumbed down FPSs.

>>379533080
Even as a CSfag you're retarded if you think this is an even an argument. In OW everyone is constantly running the fuck all over, over course there's going to be bigger headshot boxes

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>>379533080
Makes me boil with rage just thinking about it.

>>379533165
>I've Never Played a Real Shooter: The Post

>>379533165
People are running all over the place in TF2 and you don't see head hitboxes that big in there. Same goes for UT.

>>379533309
>TF2
haha right it's not like people complained about the Cuntsman ever since it was introduced

>>379512139
>d-o it fit in yet, g-guys?

>>379533392
People complained about Pyro vs. Spy and Engie vs. Scout, doesn't mean Overwatch doesn't have a bigger problem with hard counters.

>>379533392
Actually that's related to the projectile's hitbox more than anything. Hence the Hanzo bit on that picture that was posted, it's the same issue just even more exaggerated thanks to OW's generous hitboxes.

>>379533527
If he really wanted to fit in he wouldn't have praised a western game of any kind.

They lack craftmanship. Doom has stories as to how they got ideas for enemies and how they programmed the engine and how the Johns worked their ideas around together. Now you get some shitty numale going on about 'were influenced by X and we wanted to be the best Y out there'. I'm not saying that makes or breaks a game, but a lot of older games had this certain history to them, and a lot of players shared that same history and we're more easily to relate to the character and stuff. Look at those videos on dead rising 4 and the faggot they got to direct their game as well as crowbcat's video on Halo. Excellent examples of what I'm talking about.

>>379527980
Halo CE wasn't really the problem, m8. You can make the argument that it set the precedent, but it was still miles ahead of anything that followed it. Also CoD 2 was a great WWII shooter.

>>379533309
The Huntsman literally set the precedent for Hanzo, shitty hitbox and all, so go fuck yourself. TF2 died with Sniper vs. Spy.

I hate stamina bars.

Fuck stamina bars.

>>379518660
Man that is a bad video!
He compares that ol' E3 Battlefield 4 multiplayer footage to Quake? Battlefield 4 looks more fun side by side though.

CynicalBrit's video made the point better by playing Shadow Warrior rather than TimeSplitters, which was sort of on the decline of good shooters. Overall I like TimeSplitters, especially 2 - but he was showing some generic boring zombie gameplay and I couldn't tell if it was supposed to be good or bad gameplay and which side of modern or classic he was referring to, since it is kinda in the middle.

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>>379527980
improved your list friend, no need to thank me.

>>379519910

Differences like these boil down to one thing: programmers in the 90s were actually professional programmers who understood the languages they used thoroughly, as opposed to the programmers today who have a gist understanding, and just copy/paste shit together until the game functions the way they want it to.

>>379512139
Fun bosses and enemies with unique attack patterns and AI that actually tries to keep them alive while working together to fuck up the player.

>>379538502
>attack patterns
Only in games built for controllers, good enemies should fuck you up and force you to react in real time.

>>379519718
I think it doesn't hurt you in quake tho

>>379525831

Fuck you. I love Hard Reset. It's my GOAT of 2012.

I fucking hate all you retards who thought "Doom" when they advertised it as a classic FPS.

It's not a Doom/Duke style game. It plays like Serious Sam or Painkiller you fucking spastic little prick. Don't shit on the game because it isn't a keyhunt. Go kill yourself.

>>379537796
As great as that game is though, nobody plays it for the FPS aspects and its praise is purely for the lightsabering, which is also done better in Jedi Academy.

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>>379528268
>playing through Blood for the first time now

its awesome, but is Blood 2 worth playing?

>>379525831
>>379525931

I literally never encountered that even once when playing Hard Reset. You are probably a very low IQ person and run ahead without searching things, and were probably not able to see signposting from where a level is about to end.

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>>379538502
None of those appear in western games of any kind, especially the boss battles.

>>379539254
>what is quake 3 nightmare mode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOHyD49DaeA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q6UQ2QlRH0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuNN1D-FCjs&t=267s

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>>379525842
N-nice game, man.

>>379539254
>None of those appear
Tons of DOS based shooters had tons of enemy varieties with unique behaviours and tactics. Notable examples of good enemy tactics and variety would be Half Life, Descent, FEAR, etc.

Descent also had bosses that had unique armaments that changed the way you fought them, and forced you to use the area to it's fullest.

>>379525831
>>What's terrible about Hard Reset is that not only is it constantly blocking you from going back to previous areas of the level

Did you even play the same game as I did? One of the things I loved most about Hard Reset was the level design was really well done. It was basically an early 2000's style FPS with modern graphics. I don't recall ever being locked off from going back ever. Most of the levels where pretty rounded and have you going back to or near where you were before but on a higher or lower level. One of the things I most hate about level design, is what your describes with areas being locked off. I hate almost every game that does it, but I loved Hard Reset. I actually don't think you've ever played the game anon. Go find me a webm or a video of where it happens, because honestly I backtracked around in Hard Reset a shitton. I've probably got like double the playstime of a regular playthrough because half the time I was just exploring levels then going back and finding secret areas.

I really wish people wouldn't false flag about games like you did and making shit up.

>classic means mid 90's level design

Oh I understand you are butthurt you didn't get a keyhunt in a maze so you had to make things up about Hard Reset to make it look back. Literally kill yourself.

>>379538981
HR plays nothing like Serious Sam. It's one of those "FPS made by people who never played one" games like oldPrey. Good aesthetics, though.

>>379539254
>Entire thread dedicated to discussing and comparing different aspects and nuances of enemy behavior, health implementation, ammunition types and usages, modifications, ai, weapon design, level styles and designs, importance of multiplayer, etc, etc, over the history of a 25 year old genre
>DUDE THESE GAMES SUCK. WHERE ARE "HIT THE GLOWING EYE 3 TIMES WITH THE DUNGEON ITEM" ZELDA BOSSES

Why are you such a little faggot? Just leave this thread if you aren't interested in these types of games.

>>379540159
FEAR has very little enemy variety and their tactics are both overstated and overrated.

from Doom alone

large mazelike exploration focused levels
enemy variety
projectile dodging
holding a lot of weapons at once
no reloading

the combat of Doom was basically a shmup in FPS form
and as much as Doom 2016 seems like it tries to recapture the spirit of the original it still misses the point and ends up being more like God of War in FPS form than a shmup
I wouldn't call this a bad thing outright but its just hard to say if this was intentional or if the developers were misguided

I think the really interesting thing is that generally Doom is considered to be one of if not the most important and influential FPS release of all time
and yet almost no games even those released within the same time period actually follow the same kind of design that Doom set out
to this day more than 2 decades later Doom is still an extremely unique game

why would you use shadow warrior as an example of a good old school fps

>>379542414
because it's a good old school fps, ya dummy

>>379542414
Because it is a god tier game, my man. It is the most technically proficient of the build engine games by far.

>>379542775
You have to admit it becomes repetitive too soon

>same enemies spammed at you
>tfw groan when you know they're dumping those bullguys on you
>2-3 levels before you see a new weapon

>>379539403
>spunkgargleweewee
kek too accurate

>>379542414
Only the first episode is good. The rest was a chore to finish. And I say this as an avid old fps player.

>>379543181
>same enemies spammed at you
There's plenty of variety in the enemies though.
>tfw groan when you know they're dumping those bullguys on you
Do you mean rippers?
>2-3 levels before you see a new weapon
In the first level alone you get:
Katana/fists
Shuriken
Uzi/double
Quad barrel shotgun
Missile Launcher
Grenade launcher
Nuclear warhead
Flash bomb
Gas grenade
Smoke bomb
Caltrops

>>379543563
The whole game is good. I say this as an avid old fps player.

>>379538981
>It plays like Serious Sam or Painkiller
Painkiller? Sure. But it plays nothing like Serious Sam, SS had fuckhuge levels.

>>379539403
yeah because Doom 3 is such a good shooter right

>>379543943
It was. If you disagree I challenge you to a duel in aerowalk.

>>379543876
Oh you're talking about the original, god I'm an idiot

>>379544035
to what?

it's a single player FPS first and I'll judge it as such

Any modern first person games that aren't made with full mouselook in mind? Id like a game that has cursor based aiming similar to system shock where you can lock on to enemies like in metroid prime, has basic tank controls with fast full direction strafe movement (that ghost in the shell game on ps1 comes to mind) with unique weapons and enemy placement that makes use of the controls and lock on? Kind of like a shmup/rail shooter but with freedom of movement and plays out like a zelda game with varied level exploration and combat where most enemies are basically tiny puzzles.

I'd like to make something like this myself, a small thing with a few levels but I'm a retard who can barely understand how blueprints work in ue4.

>>379544180
uhh sorry sweetiemuffins it was not a single player fps it had multiplayer as well

>>379544269
yeah I bet it has a thriving community, all those not-quake-3 arena shooters do, there's always a big demand for those

>>379516141
Vermintide ticks many of these.

>>379544401
it did have a dedicated community yes but that doesn't matter what matters is whether or not you accept the challenge or are a doombabby bitch thats all talk

>>379544557
I'm shit at any MP FPS, really, and I don't own a copy anyway.

>>379531004

how could you have possibly misconstrued my comment THAT badly? its like you took the tone of my post then filled in all the blanks with the arguments you wanted to hear so you could reply with a stupid /pol/ tier response.

>>379544703
that's what i thought

>>379545149
I've played a lot of SP FPS, though. Doom 3 campaign isn't really very good compared to most of them. Q3 might be a good MP FPS (I have no idea, really), but its campaign sucks dick.

>>379545352
the only real flaw of doom 3 aside from too short of a hell sequence is the lack of always run in SP

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>>379512139
Is miss back when console FPS games were designed with a single stick in mind, forcing the player to stop to fine aim was a cool mechanic.

HEY LOOK I HATE NEW GAME AND I LOVE OLD GAMES AM I SPECIAL AND COOL NOW PLS

Fucking kys

>>379545503
The encounter design is hot garbage until the last 2-4 levels. Imps are cool in D3 but they're overused.

Resurrection of Evil is better in that regard.

>>379545510
>ADS is fucking gay and slows down gameplay!
>I miss when games made you have to slow down and aim!

>>379545510
That sounds fucking gay

>>379519132
THE GAME IS BALANCED FOR LEAN

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>>379545597
Go away, underage pleb.

>>379545695
You could very easily beat the game without using ADS in PD, but if you wanted to have better accuracy or shoot people in particular areas you'd ADS.

>>379545805
No u hipsterfaggot cuck

>>379545637
the encounter design is well done and much worse in RoE due to imp placements right in front of you that block you in slow motion

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>>379545695
>>379545734
It made the gameplay like an off rails lightgun game with the delayed firing animations from enemies, which helps add a layer of skill to a game where everybody is hitscanners.

>>379545927
>the encounter design is well done
it's boring. imps imps imps. the game even has two monsters that are not-imps and worse than imps in every way (maggots and wraiths)

there's a moment when you find a keycard and everything goes dark, you hear ominous whispers, there are pentagrams everywhere and then you get attacked... by two imps. wow

in RoE at this point you get multiple revenants, now that's something

>hey remember that shitty old mechanic in games which disappeared because they were shit?
>yeah i totally love those like im against the popular stuff, yeah im special

Kys hipstercuck faggots

>>379542214
It was probably intentional because they wanted to make a 'modern' Doom game.

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>>379545912
>>379546095
>somebody who only plays modern games calling anybody else a cuck
Irony at its absolute finest.

>>379545805
>not getting the tesla cannon first to finish them off easily

>>379545994
Fucking gay

>>379546186
>somebody who whines about modern games like a little bitch denies being a hipsterfaggot cuck

Oh the irony


Stop using computers
, those are too popular too

>>379546095
How can you defend the removal of interesting enemy reactions like in >>379545510 ? I'd much rather enemies react to being shot in the arm by dropping their guns than just having a blood splot and keep shooting like nothing happened as what happens in every game today.

Enemies in PD also reacted in combat much better in general.

>>379545597
>>379545912
>>379546095
>>379546335
I'm glad I know what the screeching xbox live 11 year olds from years past are up to nowadays.

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>>379546335
Not everybody does everything for status, stop projecting.

>>379546083
WRONG
your oversimplication that every melee monster is an imp is amusing though

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>>379546335
>>379545912
>>379546095
>>379545597

>>379546512
Hahaha that arm animation.

>>379546528
i think hes just mad at imps cause they keep 360 noscoping him with fastballs

>>379546491
>>379546512
>>379546567


Awww hipstercucks mad

>>379546528
>WRONG
because..?
>every melee monster is an imp
Not every. Pinkies are pretty distinct, so are ticks and trites. Maggots and wraiths have roughly the same HP and melee damage (maggots are slightly weaker, wraiths are slightly more buff IIRC). Wraiths are also one of the worst designed monsters I've ever saw - die to one shotgun shot and constantly teleport with a long delay.

>>379546657
Fastballs?

>>379546765
they don't teleport you dumb fuck they go invisible

>>379523493
Play as Brick and abuse the movement speed glitch(s). You can move Beserk speed 24/7 while using guns by entering your inventory during the activation animation, makes the game 100% more fun.

Or if you are an absolute mad-man you can interupt the animation by entering a car. When you get out of the car you now move at car speeds on foot.

Fucking kids talking about Doom, pong is the best game ever made you underage fags, im the king of hipsters now

>>379512139
text message goes off

>Ancient Chinese Secret

>>379546765
>Fastballs?
imps throw fireballs

>>379546830
Is that so? Well, you can't shoot them when they're invisible and the point still stands - they're completely still after reappearing, allowing you to easily one-shot them. Imps put up more of a fight. Really, D3 imps are good, they're just overused overall.

>>379546990
Yeah, but they have a casting animation that isn't all that fast... I thought maybe you meant they had a faster one, but I don't remember that?

>>379546885
Stop defending the dilution of game design with childish namecalling.

>>379525842
Whoever made the assets and called art direction shots needs to get some taste, asap. The game itself might be good, but holy fuck does it look repulsive.

>>379547054
Also:
>In the Making of Doom 3 book, Id wanted the Wraith to form out of a cloud of insects, to hide in bodies and such, but this concept was scrapped since the player wouldn't even be able to tell what the cloud was in the dark environment.
pretty funny

>>379547242

that's pretty fair. theres already so much shit you have to worry about 1-shotting you the last thing they needed was a mostly invisible backstabby enemy

>>379523138
They've fixed matchmaking for titanfall 2, at most youll wait like a minute, that is if you arent an aussie

>>379529959
>He's getting this buttblasted.

>>379547670
>theres already so much shit you have to worry about
Like what? I don't think you ever fight them combined with any other monster.
>1-shotting you
Their melee isn't that good, unless you play on that one difficulty level where your HP degenerates to 25.

There's too much nostalgia delusion in this topic. This shit is borderline autistic, and only shows that you aren't a real fan of video games overall.

>>379512139
Hell no, modern FPS are better in every way. Not sure what's even good about games which can be easily played without having to aim in all directions, just left/right.
>>379512237
Bullshit. Old school level design most majority horizontal, and modern level design's usage of vertical design gives more diversity in challenges that level design can offer.
>>379512570
What's Bioshock 2 or the Metro series or Halo 4 or remake version of Rise Of The Triad?>>379512837
Team Fortress 2? Titanfall 2?
>>379513479
See what I said about horizontal vs vertical design earlier.
>>379515735
Limiting potential player options for movement is fucking retarded though. It limits the skill ceiling.
>>379517070
Melee is still there, but the old school projectile style only made sense in limited horizontal style level design. Levels are far larger per area today, and it wouldn't work like the old way so even when there are projectiles they have been changed to be more akin to the slower weapons in Quake/UT style.
>>379519625
>- Useful crosshairs (now it's just mandatory aiming w/ iron sights all the way through the entire fucking genre)
Again, not every FPS is CoD or Battlefield
>>379519910
>I am gonna make a post about video games watering down, cherrypicking examples while not understanding a damn thing about game design and how games are far more multidimensional today
Titanfall 2, Team Fortress 2 and Overwatch all have FAR more depth than any old school FPS. Hell one of them alone has more depth than everyone pre-2000 shooter combined.
>>379520494
>wanting excessive backtracking in a genre based on its combat not exploration
Hahahahahahahahahahah
>decorated hallway
>implying that newer games don't have more vertical level design while older games were nothing but a collection of decorated hallways

>>379547990
>This shit is borderline autistic
and replying to a dozen several hours old posts isn't

>>379547990
Halo kiddie spotted

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>>379547990
>Old school level design most majority horizontal, and modern level design's usage of vertical design gives more diversity in challenges that level design can offer.
Other way around. If you ever played Quake you would know how it offered far greater use of verticality than the flat arena planes of games like Call of Duty.
>>379547990
>Overwatch all have FAR more depth than any old school FPS
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Why are people pretending that cinematic FPSes are still popular?

It's not 2007 anymore. More open-ended shooters like nuDoom are being well received by the press these days, whereas hating on COD is considered the cool thing to do.

>>379523641

There's nothing wrong with recreating IRL designs ingame, the problem is that devs are lazy and won't do anything with it.

For example, real buildings have cars parked outside, closets, ceilings, conduits, etc that can be used to hide things or provide alternative passagways. But nobody does it because it requires effort.

>>379547990
>wanting excessive backtracking in a genre based on its combat not exploration
>Hahahahahahahahahahah
Excessive backtracking might be bad, specially if there is nothing interesting on the way back, or it is forced but not hinted where exactly you need to go. But I see no reason to not have both shooting and exploration in one game if they're well done.