How do we make him viable?

You're the reason why TF2 died.

give him a sticky bomb launcher

>>379460305
Not nerf the targe a few more times

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>demoknight gets the jump on me
>1 hit away from death
>suicide before he can slice my head off

>playing demoknight at all

contribute to the team and switch back to stock loadout

>>379460305
This was literally the update that killed TF2 for me.

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>>379460305
The only good demoknight is one with a grenade launcher and/or a stickybomb launcher. But valve nerfed hybrid loadouts so fuck everything.

>>379461049
>Demoknight
>Good
Pick one

>>379460305
You don't have to worry about that sort of thing if you just uninstall the game like every other sane person already has.

>>379460523
>65% explosive resistance down to 30%
Top why

>>379460305
Give all demoknight weapons to the pyro

>>379460860
If he wasn't bad then he would be contributing though. Did you think of that

>>379460305
Melee tank doesn't take skill, we shouldn't encourage things like Demoknight.

>>379460951
mine too, I loved playing demo knight and they absolutely fucked it over completely.

I had almost 3500 hours played

>>379461114
Running Eyelander was pretty damn nice once you get two heads, which was like a straight upgrade at that point. It basically allowed me, when I get on a small streak, to stay alive more easily.

>>379462640
Just having the Eyelander on melee doesn't really count as demoknighting, it's just an easy way to get more health.

>>379460305

By buffing Engine.

>>379462640
Good luck getting two melee kills without a shield

>>379462784
That's not a hard feat in a pub.

Isn't he the 3rd-best class already, only behind medic and soldier?

>>379462784
>melee kills dont exist

>let's take the most useful weapon in the game and replace it with a fucking shield
>let's have him charge around the map faster than scout and get guaranteed crits
>oh, he should also have fire resistance in case he takes even 1 damage from an errant pyro

Give him a stickybomb launcher and the bottle, that's how you make him one of the most viable classes in the game. Give him a sword and a shield, that's how you make him a useless fuckwit which shits on new players but is absolute trash in any other context.

>>379462784
Simply equip a shield, cheese out some kills, and then switch to a sticky launcher

Last time I played, samurai sword and charge was a guaranteed push attempt and took out at least one defending problem

>Revert slow sword draw/sheathe speeds
>Give Chargin' Targe its resistance back
>Add knockback resistance to all shields
>Reduce knockback on bash/sword hits so he isn't hard-countered by jumping
>Revert shield blast resistance not applying to self-damage (In the same way the Gunboats does, only to explosives that don't damage enemies)
>Revert Claid to how it was before it was made into Zatoichi Jr. (Keep charge refill on kill)
>Fix Tide Turner/Claid not refilling charge on bash kills.
>Revert bootie movespeed bonus only applying with a shield equipped.
There's still a lot more that'd need to be done but it'd be a start.

>start having a fucking blast with demoknight
>tide turner is the best shit, even if it can be stopped with one bullet
>start wishing there were a strange nessie's nine-iron just to count all the heads I'm knocking off
>next update demoknight gets crapped on so hard I don't even see it in public servers anymore

I guess it was fun while it lasted.

>>379463027
Fuck I thought they patched that, welp time for EZ mode defense

>>379460305

But he is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znsnm7aXXJ0

>>379460305
You incentivize them to play the objective. Which requires a wholesale rework of the subclass.

Otherwise nerf it into the fucking dumpster with the rest of the gimmicks so retards finally stop playing this useless piece of shit.

>>379463035
Whereas with stickies you could take out ten defending problems.

>>379460305
Demoknight does not need to be viable. He's a less skillful, lower counterplay version of Stock Demo. All he needs to be is a fun diversion for pubs.

>>379463453
>I don't even see it in public servers anymore
That's gotta be bullshit, I see at least one 95% of games, even on maps where they are completely fucking useless like dustbowl.

>>379465468
Depends on the situation
Shock and awe as opposed to launching 2-3 nades to win

>>379465602
It's been a while since I played, but I don't even remember seeing any when I played casual during Meet your Match.

>>379464926
>scoreboard in one game reads 4/11
Okay

>>379465695
but he god the medics man

PICK

CLASS

>>379465602
This, I see it constantly in pubs, and 99.9999999% of the time in Degroot Keep.

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>there are "people" who actually think full demoknight is a workable concept in a game centrally designed around having a gun and playing an objective
>in an engine notorious for awful melee combat
>that becomes more awful when moving at high speed

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>>379465798
>mfw demoknight is unironically a better pick class than spy

>>379466086
In TF2 swinging a two-handed sword feels like trying to stab someone with a screwdriver. I dunno how the designers excuse it.

>>379460305
Don't make him viable
Make him fun
No one plays TF2 for the meta, they just want the memes

>>379463453
I use demoknight all the time still.

>>379460305
Give booties an explosives resistance sortof like the gunboats
Remove the slower draw/holster speed for the eyelander since theres no reason to ever use it over basically any other demo melee

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>>379466086
People value their own fun over good game design. That's why Soldiers shit their pants at the mere suggestion of Escape Plan seeing a nerf, or Medics get their knickers in a knot over Crusader's Crossbow and Ubersaw nerfs.
Even though such a thing would benefit everyone in the long run with more viable weapon and class choices, they can't see past their own association of the specific weapon or strategy with fun.

When Ullapool Caber got nerfed I saw someone unironically compare it to being castrated.

I recently played a few games where nobody played demoknight at all and it felt like a huge burden was lifted off my back as I carried my team to victory.

For fucks sake, I even felt that way during the rounds we lost. The game feels and plays so much better without them, you will feel it too when it happens to you.

>>379466086
>>379466536
OP pic is launch demoknight. Pipes, shield, sword. Do you remember him? He's the more popular choice for those going shield and sword. He is the real demoknight. No shit "full demoknight" will never and should never be truly viable. Duh.

>>379460305
make all grenade and sticky launchers have a minimum 3 second delay before they detonate from anything

I've now fixed tf2 as a whole

>>379466932
Did you read my post or only reply to it?

>>379467083
No

>>379466945
I don't think you understand what a balance between offensive and defensive elements in a game is.
Stickies and grenades that detonate quickly are both an offensive and defensive element. Ones that detonate within 3 seconds are hardly useful at all to anyone but defenders.

Let's say you're playing a 5CP map with only Demomen with your situation. 12 Demos per team.

Entering last is done by narrow chokes which attackers are forced to push through. The 12 Demos on defense can stickytrap the chokes, and the Demos on offense have no way of avoiding those stickytraps. The 12 Demos on offense can fire their stickies and grenades at the defensive team to try and kill the owners of the stickytraps, but since the defensive Demos are in an open area, they're free to dodge projectiles that won't detonate for 3 seconds, no matter what.

Those Demos are never going to be able to push through the chokes into last. Thus, they can't win, and the game will go to a stalemate.

Your suggestion relegates Demoman to a solely defensive element who is not useful on offense and not worth picking at all, meaning that whenever the game drops you onto BLU, you can't pick Demo. That's terrible game design.

>>379467437
you what
the only way anyone's ever pushed shit is with an uber

>>379466536
>scout counters demoman
One niggernade and scoots are practically toast

>>379467713
And having to wait for Uber to be ready is why 5CP is so fucking boring to watch. The game shouldn't require a Medic to be picked and build up an Uber for 40 seconds to function at a basic level, that's ridiculous; dry pushes should work, but don't because of the preponderance of defensive elements in TF2.

Anyway, you still miss the point about making Demo a useless pick on offensive teams. If Demo's every projectile took 3 seconds to detonate, nobody would use stock Demo on BLU ever again.

>>379467840
>One niggernade and scoots are practically toast
You need two niggernades to kill Scout, Scout needs two skeetshots to kill you, and Scout can dodge your attacks while Demo can't dodge any of Scout's.

>>379467923
I was rather thinking no one would ever pick demo on any team again unless they needed to kill a sentry

>>379468161
Defenders already have the advantage most of the time, just get a fucking scout or divebomb the attacking demo, the good players do it all the time.

We change the way melee attacks work so that they have clear range and align with the animations.

>>379468538
So improve the entire game? That's a tall order.

>>379468161
I just want to say that >>379468460 does not reflect my opinion
>>379468538
That would be nice.
I'd love to see a Team Fortress 3 where all models and animations are consistent, accurately represent hitboxes, reloading all makes sense, and weapons go onto the user's model rather than into hammerspace during switching.

>>379469180
Source 2 port would be great. Just carry over the entire game while only fixing what's broken and improving geometry. Shame the TF2 team is way too small for that to happen.

>>379463453
Wish I had your problems, I always have to switch to demoknight/natascha heavy because my team keeps feeding the enemy demoknight heads.