Why has it never been surpassed as a 3D platformer, including

>>379433351
Nintendo put their heart and soul into the games during this era. The jump from 2D to 3D was probably daunting, and they wanted it to go over as seamless as possible. It's probably why the best 3D Mario and Zelda came out in quick succession, and after they lost all drive to work those sleepless nights, it lead to Sunshine and Wind Waker being an unfinished mess.

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>>379433351
>Why has it never been surpassed as a 3D platformer, including by its own sequels?
It has been though.

>>379433767
Kill yourself.

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I never understood why Sunshine received so much shit. It was honestly my favorite out of the 3. You could go for hours screwing around with the platforming combined with the water jetpack mechanics.

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>>379434036
>Less worlds than 64
>Can't do missions in a non linear fashion
>More red coin missions than 64
>No Long Jump
>Yoshi is worthless
>20 shines locked behind Blue Coins
>7 Shadow Mario levels

>>379434036
Terrible level design, 30% of the shines are coin gathering (either 100 coin stars or the 240 blue coins), awful final boss and bosses in general, the only Mario to attempt a story and voice acting and failing terribly, and it's just straight up unfinished.

It's still fun, but the worst of the 4 by far.

>>379433351

The thing about games like this is that you cannot simply make a sequel that attempts to be just as good. If there were a modern mario game that was very similar to Mario 64 people might like it but it would never reach the same status or appreciation of the original. To be the new "best" you have to do something revolutionary. Apparently nobody has come up with the idea for that game yet.

That's why valve has never announcedhalf life 3 despite supposedly working on it for years. They don't know how to make a game that isn't just a continuation of half life 2, but something that is truly better.

>>379433351
Neuromancer sucks

(Everything else you said is true.)

>>379434036
It was way too repetitive, because it had so few levels. I really got sick of the Shadow Mario chase missions, and there's one for each level. Also more red coin missions. Obviously so much padding was done because there's only a few levels. Also hellish shine sprites like that one where you have to shoot all the balloons while on a rollercoaster, or that one Yoshi mission in the Ricco Harbor.
I absolutely loved "Mysterious Hotel Delfino" though, and the "Secret" levels are fantastic (the sections without Fludd).

>>379433351
They accidentally gave the player too much freedom of movement

mechanics were too complicated for kids. They had to simplify it with everything after sunshine.

Unlike sunshine, the level design in 64 were very contained and box like. A lot of movement both horizontally and vertically in a smaller space. Allowed for a lot of creativity in traversing.

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Most platformers by the time tried more to be like Banjo-Kazooie than Mario 64, with more emphasis on collectibles, characters and othet stuff rather than the moveset, physics and level layout with simple objectives.
After the 5th gen, the new hip was GTA clones or DMC combat, so platformers/collectathons became more focused on sandbox worlds, weapons/vehicles and combat mechanics,eith maybe only the shovelware stuff being simple platformers that still went with the banjo formula.
Even now, most platformers revivals are trying to be like Banjo more than Mario, the only game I know that has a more Mario 64 feel is Poi.

Mario 64 is an okay game at best. Anyone who thinks it's more than that is a nostalgia-blind faggot.

>>379434036
Its an improvement in many ways after 64, but like some people said it was crammed with lots of filler coin collecting shines and is just smaller than the rest of the games. I still think every game after it was a huge step back after sunshine though.

>>379434998
Care to explain your reasoning?

>>379434998
Well I played the game for the first time a few years ago so I can say your argument of it being nostaliga only is wrong.

>>379434036
I'm with you. I spent hours dicking around with the water mechanics. The amount of time I put into Galaxy is but a fraction of the time and enjoyment I got out of Sunshine. Galaxy was shit.

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>>379435242
>Sunshine
>Enjoyment
At least be more subtle with your bait.

>>379433767
Movement in that game feels like shit though.

>>379434036
sunshine had some really high highs, the lows were lower than anything else in a 3D mario game

Sunshine surpassed 64 by virtue of having a fully controllable camera. Sad how no other 3D Mario has managed to surpass Sunshine.

>>379435625
>sunshine had some really high highs
The only good things from Sunshine was the movement which was rendered useless by FLUDD 90% of the time and the 'Secret of' levels where FLUDD was removed.

>>379435370
This exact thing may have happened on my own playthrough through this game. There was LOADS of other bullshit moments to where I died from dumb shit.

With that being said, it was still a more enjoyable time than Galaxy.

>>379434201
>Yoshi is worthless
Yoshi was always worthless.

>>379435819
Yeah but in Sunshine he's hydrophobic so he's doubly worthless.

>>379435764
As supposed to what? Run, jump, and wiggle your remote for that one spin punch move? Shooting glittery stars at the screen? The occasional special form you get on a couple of levels?

Galaxy looks phenomenal graphics wise, but that's all it gets from me.

>>379434201
>>No Long Jump
I love me the long jump but it wasn't really needed in that game. The level design, other gameplay mechanics such as Fludd and other moves like the jump-dash make it really pointless to have. It wouldn't even be a fast way to travel if you had it anyways since it's faster to dash with water under you in the game.

>>379435764
>>379436158
I had fun with Galaxy 1+2 but fuck did I hate the movement in that game, compared to 64 or Sunshine it felt so stiff? I don't know, it was certainly sluggish in the comparison.

>>379433351

It has been surpassed in terms of focused level design. Where 64 still arguably reigns king is mechanics. Mario's startup momentum is perhaps a bit slippery but once he gets going his sense of motion and movement options are top class shit. Controlling Mario is just really, really good and the open, playground-like design of most of these levels accent that. I do think there have been better outright platformers but 64 still is one of the best in putting the "3D" in 3D platformers.

>>379436158
Sunshine wishes it could have levels nearly as interesting as the Galaxy's games. Instead it had beach level, beach level, town level, amusement park with a beach, and other town level.

>>379436534
at least it had real environments. Galaxy was just random floating shit

>>379436534
>A game set in an entire galaxy has less locations than one solely on an island

rely mk u tink

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>>379437110
Wtf I hate random floating shit now.

>>379436534
Well fuck, I'd hope a game taking place in OUTER SPACE, would have a little more variety than tropical setting. Even with it having more to choose from as far as environments, I'm still doing the same jump, spin, and star bullshit, except with a differently colored background.

>>379437110
You're saying this when some of the best levels in Sunshine were the ones that were just random floating shit.

>>379437603
that's true, but that's all galaxy does and it comes off looking cheap because of it

>>379433351
Because when designing Mario 64, Miyamoto had the developers present him with an empty white room with nothing in it but Mario. If moving around wasn't fun, on its own, they kept refining.

This was how the movement was developed for SM64. Show me another game that did that as part of its movement design/tuning process and I'll show you a game as good as SM64.

It's a question of where developer priorities lie.

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>>379435058
Not him but

>after dominating the previous two generations Nintendo gets blown the fuck out by Sony
>managed to halt progress or take their established franchises into "new", awful directions from which they never recovered
>Mario 64 is objectively the worst Mario game, and is a soulless husk compared to SMW and SMW2
>brought absolutely nothing to the Mario canon
>transitioning Zelda and Donkey Kong Country to 3D was equally disastrous
>Zelda never recovered, actually a miracle that Tropical Freeze managed to be decent
>only reason Metroid was spared was because one of its creators found the N64 controller too confusing
>that series was later rebooted as a generic FPS and has since ceased to exist
>pretty much all the developers responsible for the classic and most memorable SNES games jumped ship to PSX
>N64's library was pitiful as a result
>players were so starved for games they had to delude themselves into believing the games they had were somehow the pinnacles of their respective genres
>they genuinely believe Goldeneye is somehow more influential than the myriad of legendary PC FPS games that preceded it
>Nintendo proceeded to get obliterated by Sony AGAIN in the next generation
>only thing keeping them afloat is the general homogenization between their competitors and their few fans who refuse to stop clinging to their beloved childhood franchises no matter how bad they get

Was the N64 truly the end for Nintendo?

>>379433351
It has. By every sequel. I'm not saying every sequel is better than the last, but I'm saying every sequel is better than this one.

>>379435625
Sunshine's biggest fault was that progression made no sense.

You were collecting shines, and also collecting blue coins to unlock shines, but you didn't need shines. You needed to clear course 7 in a world to unlock the next world. Also, sometimes, for no clear reason, you'd unlock a new Fludd power or get access to Yoshi.

The ability to get to the next level felt random and stupid. In 64, you collected Stars for a clear reason: that door with a Star-number on it that you wanted to get past.

The lack of clarity in Sunshine killed it. Unless you were going for completion-for-completion's-sake, half the game was just a time sink.

>>379438043
>Mario canon

go outside

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>>379438421
>Not caring about Mario lore

>>379438043
mario 64 is no doubt a tech demo, but its also a blue print that nearly everyone copied after its release.

I do think that early ps1 games are interesting to play because they don't have any influence from mario 64. Most people would say they're worse for it though. Ironically more games would end up copying banjo like they >>379434879 said

>>379434805
>more red coin missions

I'm pretty sure there's less of these in Sunshine than in SM64. Regardless it's really close either way. Sunshine is just a much more condensed game. You get 4 in Bianco Hills and only one in each of the main courses in SM64.

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>>379438472
Better one.

>>379437110
like 27% of 64

>>379439196
They both have 24.
https://www.mariowiki.com/Red_Coin

>>379433351
>Why has it never been surpassed as a 3D platformer,

It has though

>>379433351
3D platformers are inherently shit, that's why. It's a fucking fluke that this game was the exception.