Worst JRPG battle system of all time?

>>379327089

That's not XenoBlade

>>379327089
I liked the combo and break mechanics.

Didn't play this one. I just played a bit of XenoSaga 1. How was the combat so much different?

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>>379327089
>Have light attacks, heavy attacks, and a defend where you just stand still until you get an Anti-Attack Aura that stops light attacks.
>Basic design is rock paper scissors on paper.
>In reality you're actively punished for ever trying to use light attacks because enemies can and will regenerate full fury to activate their AAA every single time you're confident enough to poke them.
>Endgame, enemies have an AAA that will instantly kill you and your entire party if you ever attack them while they have their guard up.
>The only "safe" way to play is to spam heavy attack.

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Nope.

>>379330726
Forgot to mention
>Party members are not smart enough to use heavy attacks on AAA's to break them.
>They will spam light attacks while an enemy is stationary and put you in danger.

>>379327089
Any clunky, half-assed, casual babby jap arpg ever made.

>>379330557
It's not really the combat that's the worst part, it's the story. The whole thing is a filler. Almost nothing happens, they wanted to drag out the game and chop up the story into like 6 episodes.
Then after the shitty reception of the second game they got scared and put the rest of the story into episode 3, which was glorious.

You lose literally nothing if you play Episode 1, watch the Ep2 cinematics on youtube and then go and finish with Ep3.

>>379327089
FFXV exists

>>379327089
Shadow Hearts has the ring system which was actually cool, too bad it also had the sanity meter BS.

>>379331898
Also the side quests were fucking awful. There are like 50 side quests and many of them are missable if you don't go and talk to every single NPC in the game every time the story advances a little bit.
Half of the side quests are about running between various planets and take half a dozen loading screens until you get there.

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>>379327089
Arc The Lad Twilight of Spirits had a pretty terrible battle system.

>>379332298
Lame-o

>>379332307
>There are like 50 side quests and many of them are missable if you don't go and talk to every single NPC in the game every time the story advances a little bit.
That's like every JRPG from 2007 and before.
Call me a casual but I don't miss that.

>>379332415
When you come to Los Angeles you can suck my cock

>>379332491
No anon it's much worse. If you want to do the side quests and keep your sanity, you better follow a guide to the letter.

>>379327089
FFXIII

>>379330726
Objectively shit taste

>>379332602
https://ameblo.jp/koulinovesperia/entry-10347292825.html

I know. This is first of a three part guide for Vesperia if you want to do all the missable sidequests.

>>379330557
If i remember correctly, you can't do any damage without combos, and to be able to do combos you need to skip turns

So every fight you need to skip 3 turns to kill 1 enemy

>>379332782
What the fuck.

>>379332782
While it has been like nine millennia since I played it, I don't recall any problems with any of the random battles.

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Nope. Not when this shit exists.
Battle system was so fucking boring it singlehandedly ruined the game for me.

>>379332872
It's not bad.
It's been a while, but if I remember correctly the combat system is like, you get 4 AP per round and you can have a max of 6 AP.
So in the first turn you spend 2 AP and save the rest, then you can do a full attack in the second turn.

>>379330726
I had this game a long time ago. All I remember was some shit crafting and riding a turtle in a mine or something

>>379333015
Problem that piece of shit had was by the time it gets somewhat difficult and would actually have to plan, you're in the last dungeon. By then its too late and you're probably overleveled from simply having Torri use her AoE against everything and kill it in one round anyways.

>>379332782
And if you got a good handle on the system and took full advantage of it you could beat bosses with them barely getting any turns in.

>>379333131
That's the only thing I really remember too. That fucking mine part.

>>379333015
It's not like that crap had anything else going for it either.

>>379331970
/thread

>>379333131
Fuck the hauler beast minigame.
The game is actually pretty fun up until you return from Gemity, then the enemies grow new bullshit like instant kill homing auras making light attacks a danger to use.

i got the first game a long time ago. i remember the characters having the ugliest models in the world. i have no idea what the fuck was going on in the story or the battle system

>>379332782
>>379332872
Find out what elemental attribute the enemy is weak to, keep up corresponding sword spell (obviously then, use party members with non-elemental attacks). Using that combos are not really necessary with normal enemies, and using the break, air/down system will pretty much guaruntee a one or two round KO.

>>379333362
It had some really good tracks in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyf_pgQDkNw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSyfpM5K87g

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>>379327142

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>can't target enemies yourself, kinda like P3, except not even with the main character
>don't get to pick your own team, not even outside of battle
>battles don't earn exp, money and items like most games
>you have to pick between exp or items before battle
>otherwise the combat is the most boring, generic shit possible, nothing special whatsoever

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I don't remember how I even beat this bitch

>>379327089
That's not HDN1

>>379327089
Xenosaga was one of the only games I returned to Blockbuster early. It was so fucking boring.

>>379334040
I don't remember how I first did it either, beyond the fact that she kicked my ass for about 2 months straight before it happened. Nowadays I just level-grind shion to 40 on the dammerung and then stall orgulla's fight to farm Awakening II manuals and finish matthew's debt

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>>379333362
I mean, it's pretty funny.

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This is fucking unplayable

>>379327089
All of them.

>>379334040
>>379332782
I'm probably the only guy who loves Ep2 combat. I really like to do combos and juggle enemies until they are dead. Also, this game has one of the most broken Skill level-up system I've ever seen, you can do some really broken stuff early on the game.

>>379334593
I thought it was fine at the start but holy shit towards the end of the game it's ridiculous, I skipped all the encounters on the final area because they took like 20 minutes each

>>379327089
It's actually well done and much more interesting than the first game's. Takes the system from that game, removes AP(thank Christ), and implements a system with more depth. Boss battles are damn fun in this game.
>>379330557
To put it bluntly, people don't know how to play the game. If you want a brief explanation, I can provide one in another post. Alternatively, there's a goddamn tutorial at the beginning of the game that, apparently, everyone missed.
>>379331898
>filler
>gives backstory on URTVs
>reveals the significance of MOMO and why everyone wanted access to her data
>directly transitions into the next game
>XSIII was glorious
Can't agree. I've got a number of issues with it.
>>379332307
They are missable, but entirely optional. Most of the side quests can be done in the same area.

>>379334357
You're not intelligent enough.

>>379334357
I've actually been wanting to play this. I might do it next month.

>>379334745
Then did you actually beat those enemies who self destruct at the end to kill your party in just one turn? Those guys are fun.

Every time I think of the Xenosaga series, the first thing that pops into my mind is one of the characters whispering UU-DOOOOOO in a dramatic voice.

>>379332782
>and to be able to do combos you need to skip turns
False.
>>379332782
>you can't do any damage without combos
Also false, but you greatly increase the damage you deal by taking advantage of enemy weaknesses.

>>379335091
ya that faggot horseback knight was the last straw, I stopped fighting after I got killed by him after a 20 minute bout killing him. How the fuck are you even supposed to kill him properly?

>>379330806
I like Baten Kaitos's battle system. Though it can make battles drag on way too long and some things like the finnicky c-stick number selection and food degradation can be nuisances.
Better than most card-based battle systems.

>>379335252
You can unlock some broken skills that let you survive hits with 1 HP. Also, I remember there are auto-revive skills too. The game is not hard, but expects you to be fucking broken after Disc 1.

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>>379333903
mfw I bought a DS just for this game because it was the only Lunar-related game to come out in years.

>>379335420
I don't think I unlocked the auto revive, abused the fuck out of it in saga 3 though

Anyone played the game in Japanese and compared it with the translation?
I learned the language since I last played the game, and was thinking of tryout out the original version in the next replay.

>>379334040
She's basically the boss that tests whether or not you understand the battle system. Fucking great boss. Too bad she's not too significant of a character. She showed up suddenly and was never seen again.

>>379335252
The only enemies I recall being a major threat were the Ormus Knights. Those guys are a boss fight disguised as a regular enemy.
>get ambushed by Ormus Knights
Fucking RIP.

>>379335705
>tests if you know the battle system
>heals off 10 minutes of progress in a single turn

>>379327142
/thread

>>379335831
She only does that when she's below half health, which means you're close to taking her out. At that point, you should be trying to maximize damage. Fucking Ziggy can do ~2500-3000 damage in one turn.

>>379327089
it's fine. certainly not the worst.

>>379336000
bullshit unless you grinded, I used ziggy too

>>379334838
I think it was less that people didn't know how to play, and more that it was tedious in general.

Even the trash enemies that fill a level need to be taken out by exploiting weaknesses. The best way to do this was have the party lined up with enough stock and elemental buffs to unload on the enemy in one swoop. This would take a few turns just to set up, and you had to do that every fucking battle.

Don't get me wrong, it had its moments. The optional bosses had me on edge throughout the fight, which says a lot for a turn based game. But in the grand scheme of things it made the majority of the game really boring.

>>379327142
Xenoblade Chronicles battles are fine.
Xenoblade Chronicles X takes all the good things and throws them out the window though. It's still a good game but some of the changes they made blow my mind, I can't believe it's done by the same people.

>>379336264
is this a joke? The ground combat is an enhancement in everyway and the doll combat is at worst as bad as xenoblade without the teamwork

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>>379327142
b8

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>>379336339
It's a clusterfuck of flashy effects and menus, party members are borderline useless, morale is used for maybe 1 skill for one class, and soul voices as a whole are just terrible. Completely awful. It disgusts me every time someone tries to defend soul voices and that shitty, repetitive screen-hogging QTE.

Look at this thing and tell me you enjoy having your view blocked by this eyesore.

>>379336089
>unless you grinded
>grinding in Xenosaga II
She's weak to fire when she's in ice mode, m8. Get her in knockdown, and Ziggy wrecks her shit. My numbers might be a little off, but it's definitely around 2000 damage.
>>379336172
The thing is, the trash enemies are weak. You can take them out in a turn or two. You generally do not need to use stock or elemental buffs in random battles, especially when you're rewarded with stock for breaking enemy zones. Now, some endgame enemies are another story. I mentioned those Ormus Knights earlier. They take some preparation.

I'm not of the opinion that there is any excess tedium in the game. I have more trouble getting through XSI(takes too long, unless you have good tech attacks) or III(random battles are too frequent, and you can't take out enemies effectively until you get much better attacks; don't get me started on bosses).

>>379336505
I haven't played X but that QTE was in the original too

>>379333362
Too much of this thread is like that. Just crap games period.

>>379336505
I've only played X and didn't care for it, but the QTE thing was fast. Usually less than 2 seconds. If it was off in the corner you would miss it every time.

>>379336702
It was smaller, less frequent, and easier to react to.

>>379336698
And of course, there's the fact that you have to sit through long animations in the first game, even if you have tech attacks. Fighting rows of enemies makes things take even longer. If the criticism of XSII is that it's tedious, we should at least be fair and point out the same flaw in the other games.

XSIII did do E.S. battles well, though. In that aspect, the streamlined combat works well. Everywhere else? Not fun.

>>379335539
I don't like Ep3 difficulty, is too fucking easy. Ep1 had some difficult boss fights and Ep2 is Ep2, after playing both I thought Ep3 would follow the same trend but I feel the game is FF with gimmicks. Still a good game.

>>379336505
that has nothing to do with combat

>>379336902
episode 1 is retarded, you're fucked if you picked wrong. I went ziggy (who sucks cocks in 1), kos-mos, and chaos as a healer thinking he'd get more heals, he doesn't. The game was hell since you can't switch characters mid battle and ziggy can't do shit in a lot of them since you require ranged. If your team doesn't have at least jr. and momo/shion you are straight fucked

>>379336264
XBX classes are a lot better and there are more possible builds.

Literally the only characters that were fun in XB were Shulk and Seven for the positional attacks and Melia for casting.

>>379336841
Wow, if it was something other than huge and in the centre of the screen maybe it would actually take some kind of skill huh? Can't have that. Can't have the battle system be better. Good point retarded anon.

>>379327089
I started replaying the series but my Xenosaga 2 disk was unreadable
I'm not sure if I'm mad or grateful

>>379337140
I've read some Ep1 guides, they usually pick up Ziggy and say the game is easy with him. My party in Ep1 is Shion, Kos-Mos and Jr.

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>>379337223
You are aware I literally just said I didn't care for it?

>>379337140
Half of the game you can't even pick your characters, and in the second half you should know how to build a good team.

>>379336902
That one Gnosis boss in XS1 that clones itself and has that instant death attack was a little tough. Although apparently, there's some kind of way to cheese the boss. I don't remember what it was.

>I feel the game is FF with gimmicks
It's worse. FF at least has status effects to take advantage of. XSIII is just
>spam break attacks until the boss is stunned
>special attack spam
>guard while the boss charges his counterattack laser
>heal
>rinse and repeat
Every boss follows the same pattern, just with a different element. It was EXTREMELY boring. I found it completely disappointing.
>>379337140
I don't recall having that much trouble in XS1, dude. Well, except for the boss that I mentioned.

>>379337402
The one in the city? One is weak to physical attacks and the other is weak against ether. Kos-Mos with X-Buster usually do the job.

>>379337402
One thing I remember from XS 3 is that I just spammed some area attacks in the last dungeon (Shion had that robot summon and KOS-MOS had some bullshit X-buster or something) that wiped out every pack in 1 attack. chaos had something too.

>>379337314
I've ususally seen Shion/Kos Mos/Jr as the de facto best party
Shion has great healing, support spells, and Erde Kaiser, Jr has physical ranged attacks, and Kos Mos is just all around good

>>379337590
Yeah, that one. I just had Shion on support and tried to take them out the old-fashioned way.
>>379337659
Late game XSIII is typically
>have Junior use Storm Waltz
>most, if not all, enemies get stunned
>follow up with Jin using row attacks
>clean up with whatever else you want
That pretty much handles everything lategame. Thing is, it takes a damn long time to get those, so the entire game, you just have to chug your way through battles.

>>379337314
well there must be some skill gain path I didn't follow because ziggy sucked cock in my XS1

>>379337402
Yeah, Xeno 3's combat was utterly forgettable for me
I dunno what it is about the button press thing that XG and XS1+2 did, but it makes the whole thing a lot more engaging for me than standard menus despite not being very deep

>>379337140
Episode 1 was really fucking easy. Get one special attack on high speed, dump all your points into it. It doesn't matter which character you use, they all can dish out damage this way (except for maybe MOMO). You can steamroll the game just spamming spell ray and r-cannon.

>>379334357
>Can't hit his tier five techs
Maybe you should stick to VN's if you have the reactions of a slug.

>>379336870
This. It was actually harder to land a "great" but because it doesn't appear very often (unless everyone's low on morale because they keep missing or getting hit too hard) because all it does is boost morale.

>>379337867
There is, for both Ep1 and Ep2. In Ep1 you can get X-Buster with Kos-Mos early on and everything becomes easier. In Ep2, before you even finish Disc 1 you can get Medica 2 and Medica All and after that you should only care about the broken L4 skills. Having Turn 1 an instaboost and expanding from 3 to 5 boost slots and getting those survive skills makes the game easy as fuck.

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Quest 64. Full stop.

>>379334357
>Doesn't realize the game has no RNG in its wheel, its just sheer timing
Its been a while, but its either 2 or 3 on the first one and I think 8 on the third one.

>>379327089
xenoblade chronicles

and soon to be:
xenoblade chronicles 2

best battle system is and always will be:
xenoblade chronicles X

>>379336973
Other than the fact it only appears in combat, it's tied to healing which is very much a focus of combat? You can only heal from Soul Voices (the shitty QTE) or some skills from a class two other optional characters have, I forget what it's called, and they don't heal for much.

>>379338258
>medica all

that's the fucking problem I used chaos for heals because he started with an AoE one but he never got another

>>379338370
there are numerous heal over time abilities like speed demon

>>379338546
Wasn't there a system where you could teach ether skills to other characters?

The weirdest part about these games for me was the art style completely changing in each game.

>>379338262
I don't know why but I can't help but like Quest 64 despite it not being a very good game.

>>379338648
Then they should let us rely on those instead of a QTE that happens everytime someone loses HP somehow.
Late game (and especially against superbosses), you will see it every three seconds. I'm not exaggerating.

>>379338661
Almost all ether spells could be learned by all characters. The exception being shit like Erde Kaiser. All three games did this iirc.

>>379338661
The one that required me to invest heavily in shion so she unlocks it first?

>>379338546
If I remember correctly, you can get OP accesories in segment address doors and because of that, the game allows you to reply previous levels with whatever party you like, you can solve your problems that way.

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No game is worse than Chrono Cross in the combat department, NO GAME.

NONE.

>>379339040
kys

>>379339040
I liked assigning my skills.

>>379333903
not gonna mention that stamina bullshit where you get hurt as you walk on the overworld?

>>379338546
>I used chaos for heals
>when you have a character that specializes in healing and another that specializes in BOTH healing and support
Why the actual fuck did you do that?

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Let's get a genre
That is only topped by an RTS in letting you control multiple characters in a game
AND MAKE YOU ONLY CONTROL
ONE CHARACTER.

>>379339264
There was no point in posting this when someone already posted this >>379333903

It's impossible for P3 to be the worst.

>>379339264
A, use tactics. B, it's not even a problem in-game.
>Marin Karin
Command Mitsuru to use Full Assault or Knock Down, and she will never use it. Even with Act Freely, she rarely uses it.

>>379339040
I thought Chrono Cross was pretty unique and fun, even if it got a little old and annoying by the end.

>>379327089
Not JRPG, but every cRPG has terrible gameplay and i would take xenosaga 2 gameplay over it.

>>379339264
Don't remind me.

>retarded AI mitsuru
>only useful characters are the first two you get
>the bullied qt you rescue from a locker who looks like she'd make a nice healer or something gets relegated to non-playable support

J U S T

>>379333903
That sounds horrible. I'm going to look up some gameplay.

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>>379338679
same here desu, I love me some Quest 64. It just had a shitload of charm I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLH8CI-nnOA

>>379339040
I dunno about that but it is pretty bad, yeah.

>>379339425
What if I want her to heal?

>>379327089
Unlimited Saga.

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>>379339264
But Wizardry 4 is pretty hardcore dude.

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Ni No Kuni

After you get to a certain point, battles literally become unplayable. It gets to the point where your party member AI is so shit that they constantly get themselves killed, so battles quickly devolve into you, by yourself, trying to kill whatever boss or enemies you run into.

It's frustrating as fuck too, since the game was so fucking beautiful and the story was kind of interesting. I made it up to the volcano boss before I just couldn't keep going. Damn shame...

>>379334331
Don't forget he procreated children with other males as well.

>>379339783
Tell her to? Then again, MC, Yukari, and Aigis do a better job of that.

>>379339209
I don't know he was the only one with an aoe heal early game, the devs bamboozled me

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EVERY single DQ game

EVERY ONE OF THEM

>>379339828
This. I bought it for 2.99 at a FUCKING GAMESTOP years ago. Suffice to say, I quickly found out why it was 2.99.

>>379340012
You deserved it for not using second best girl in your party.

>>379340012
Lol. Well, now you know. Honestly, Chaos is better at support than healing. He probably shouldn't be the one you go to heal the party when you absolutely need it.

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>>379340062
Take it back faggot, DQ gameplay is a staple to JRPGs.

>>379339883
You can issue commands to move or manually control them, and it's pretty easy. If they were dying, it means you were just as shitty as the shitty AI.

>>379340062
eh, it's iconic. If it's not to your tastes, that's on you. I personally like the DQ8 style of the combat system, because I like seeing my characters, but the other ones aren't bad.

>>379327142
fpbp

>>379340062
>play the 3DS remakes
>the combat UI/menu system is still dated, archaic, tedious shit

How was that actually acceptable to anyone? I'm amazed these games don't still make you open a menu to use stairs.

>>379327089
>Ctrl+F "magna carta"
>0 results

You faggots don't know bad battle systems. This is also a good answer >>379334112

>>379340239
Are you referring to momo because shion is shit

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>Worst JRPG battle system
is there any other kind?

>>379334112
>HDN1
Oh lord. I forgot that existed.
>>379340597
>Manga Carta
Explain.

>>379340641
Level scaling.

>>379340391
>>379340547
Yeah it's a staple of how you make some of the most blandest battle systems in JRPG's and get away with it because muh DB art style, it doesn't even have good tracks to mask the boring as fuck fights.

>>379340816
Yes.
Reducing XP from weaker enemies as the player becomes powerful is a lot closer to realism anyway, you can't learn if you don't challenge yourself.

>>379340547
>iconic
Doesn't excuse shit.
>it's on you if a dev makes something bad
Almonds and such.

>>379327089
Not only bad battle system, this game was over all shit.

>>379341001
>Reducing XP
Yes, that's the issue here and nothing else.

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>>379331970
>FFXV battle system
>worst
>FFXV's battle system the worst when FFVIII and FFXIII exist

>>379340816
That has nothing to do with battle mechanics and more to do with how to make enemies more of a threat most of the game.
>>379341553
What is wrong with Final Fantasy VIII's battle system?

>>379339956
I never trusted anyone to heal except for myself in P3. It crippled me, sure, but at least I didn't have Yukari screwing me over by using single over mutli healing.

>>379341606
FFVIII's combat isn't as much of a problem as the balancing of the mechanics around it. Drawing is a slog and getting magic to junction through things like Triple Triad completely breaks the game. And when all that doesn't work, the combat itself is pretty weak.

>>379341553
FFVIII's junction system is busted. The battle system is fine, outside of drawing. There's spell charges, too, but that's a junction system problem.

>>379341776
Well then there is nothing wrong with the battle system and more of a problem with character growth and customization mechanics.

The combat is almost the same as Final Fantasy VII except you can cast magic from enemies as well. ATB, limit breaks but it is triggered differently (through low HP), and you have various skill options to choose from depending what skills you equipped to the character (magic or what ever other GF abilities).

>>379341938
I know. I wasn't agreeing with that guy, I was just saying what makes it not work. I wish VIII was fixed in a remake or something. It's just too easy to trivialize as is.

>>379341553
XIII is DMC with menus, XV is keep pressing 1 button to simulate DMC and XV is not Xenogears to excuse the bland battle system because crazy shit happens every 20 minutes.

>>379341553

>mentioning XIII and VIII when II exists

II will always remain the worst in the series for a damned good reason.

>>379342096
What is wrong with Final Fantasy II's battle system?

>>379330726

MP CRUSH

>>379342235
It was a SaGa system.

>>379342460
I don't think it was anything like Final Fantasy Legend. In Final Fantasy II you had MP and a standard weapon were as in FFL you had spell charges, skill charges, and weapon durability. Not only that but you could equip multiple weapons on a single character for various situations. Also the way you targeted enemies was different since there were often more enemies and they would come in packs and you had attacks that hit all enemies, an enemy type group, or a single enemy. In Final Fantasy II you could change a spell to hit one target or all targets instead of it being set along with having the ability to put characters in a front row and back row rather than party order to determine who gets targeted.

There were various things that were different between the two.

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>>379327142

>>379327089
Suikoden 3 was worse

>>379343229
>the only Suikoden I own physically is worse
Haven't played it yet. Fill me in.

>>379340660
https://youtu.be/DH2SJKIjlPs?t=1068
>Combat has you get a turn during which you control any character, like in Gungnir, rather than each party member getting their own turn
>Just like in Gungnir this makes you use one character constantly while ignoring others
>Also like in Gungnir, enemies get turns far more often than the player does
>Attacking is done through three timed button presses, your accuracy determines how much damage it does
>If you miss a single one (which is easy to do because the detection is poor) your attack loses entirely, your entire special gauge is emptied, and the enemy gets an initiative bonus
>Initiative system (aka morale system) basically ensures that every battle is either a complete cakewalk for you or you get your shit kicked in by the enemy if you make a single mistake
>Attacks use up a type of chi which is a slowly regenerating resource for each battle, if you run out of chi you can't use those attacks anymore and have to change to different attacks
>All this means is that you use each chi until it runs out then switch
>You always have to use attack skills in order from weakest to strongest, if you miss any you have to start over
>Combo system allows you to do a strong attack, but only if you successfully hit up to 21 presses without a single miss while they run at double speed compared to normal, if you miss a single one then you lose your attack, special gauge, and the enemy gets an initiative bonus, and the combo system barely does enough extra damage to be worth that risk
>The counter system gives you three question marks to hit during the enemy attack, and you have to properly guess the correct face buttons for each to counter, and if you get even one wrong (or miss, of course) you fail and take massive damage, so the counter system is completely worthless due to the guesswork being totally unviable

tl;dr it's incredibly unbalanced and you'll either steamroll each battle or get fucked hard for making a single error.

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Not the worst but theres no strategy. By chapter 6 or 7 you have enough mana to fill all slots with skills that override your opponents attacks

>>379327089
Fuck you. Xenosaga was amazing.

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>>379341929
>drawing 99 Full Life magic
>junction it to my HP
>mfw my HP went to 9999

>>379342264
I'm okay with MP death.
What I'm not okay with is only being able to hold 20 revives when it's guaranteed you'll have your AI party members dying every single battle.

>>379343338
Teams are broken into pairs and you issue orders in pairs instead of the usual pick everyone's action and let speed sort out who moves and when. The pairs, outside of combos that exist kind of like every other game in the series, are pretty boring. If you use a rune, your partner uses a physical attack.

Then there's the change in the war maps. That happens in every game but S3 just has control points and regular battles between groups instead of unique war motions. S4 has boat combat, S5 has leveled war skills and sprawling maps, S2 has generic srpg stuff like shining force, and S1 has warbands and troop counts acting as resources. Compared to all of them, S3 was a big step down.

>>379342828
What I'm referring to is the other little things. What you're talking of is fixes that came along later. Stupid things like
>Hitting yourself increases your HP
>Agi goes up by dual wielding sheilds
>Every type of magic is a skill
>This means that Ultima is weak as shit because you'd have to spend forever learning it
>This also means that status effects are even more useless because you'd have to level it

Things of that nature

What's the best JRPG battle system?

>>379343876
A lot of this seems to be about character growth mechanics and how skills were affected by stats rather than the actual battle mechanics.

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Nah

>>379343945
I really like Persona 5's battle system, and Apocalpyses' battle system is probably the best in the SMT series so far.
Earthbound has a fun one that rewards fast timing.

>>379343945
Grandia 2

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>>379327089

>>379327089
I hate this game for standing between me and the 3rd game, the changed characters designs are far worse than the battle system though.

>>379344021
I especially liked how the smirk system now makes it so that you need it in order to utilize the instant kill effects of hama and mudo.

>>379343969
>You make a mage.
>The game makes a big deal out of getting the Ultima spell to the point that a character that joined your party for a bit literally kills himself to unlock it.
>You go to cast Ultima on a rabbit
>It does 1 damage
>Same character casts Fire that she's been casting all game
>It does a fuck ton more.
>>379343945
I unironically liked what the Neptunia games did with how fast you can grind, if you really felt the need to.
https://youtu.be/hgGPpRDMp8A?t=4m59s
CH gets a lot of shit, but a number of games would benefit from that, SMTxFE being the first one I can think of.

>>379343457
Play as the wolf girl then, 2/3rds of the game is absolute hell because physical>magic and she only gets the good spells at level 30 or so, meanwhile you have to waste a few points to raise her strength to E just to scratch enemies and make do with her shitty melee.

>>379343945
As far as accessibility and "it just works" is concerned, Dragon Quest. In terms of being unique and working well, it could be a lot of different things. For example, I like Xenosaga II's a lot, but as you can see, plenty of people have issues with it.
>>379344136
>character designs
Arguably, Shion or KOS-MOS look worse. I liked the previous designs for them(although Shion looks fine IMHO; just needs her glasses back). Everyone else is better, and giving MOMO a bow and arrow was the best fucking design decision in this series.