How should Valve fix the refund system, /v/? It's not fair now.

Stop spamming this shitty thread

If you put the time and effort into a game only for it to be completed in 120 minutes then you don't deserve money for it

Taylor Swift Porn should be a thing

>>379192040
Does the % complete include any% runs or 100% runs?

Stop offering refunds? I never got the point of refunds. Feels like a very American concept for crybabies.

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>tfw you play tons of indie games that last 1 hour long on a single playthrough, due to them being shmups
>you always buy them if it's from a trusted developer

Shoot, I don't even pirate them beforehand. They're just that good. Thank you Astro Port.

I agree with him, then I can play multiplayer games for free forever as long as I don't touch the campaign.

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>>379192583
I know this is /v/ but this is the most retarded thing I have read in a long time.
Congratulations.

>>379192583
Its actually anti american. The whole get people to pay for art before consuming it thing is quite american/jewish

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>>379192583
I agree it seems like refunds only exist to hurt the developers and nothing else.

>>379192651
Can you stop spamming your relentlessness love for Astro Port? You're not as annoying as some of the spammers and namefags/tripfags, but jesus christ, we get it, you love them mech games, holy shit, STOP BRINGING IT SO MUCH YOU AUTIST

>>379192040
xDDD fuclkkfign iasdfnadfuee ;dnesdv
lsddisaadk jsut pairtewe theirffy sbsfbutitity ngames anwyays

>>379192040
>beat game twice
>get refund
>have to pay for the game again

Thanks, Gabe.

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Have you seen that one reply made to the tweet

>>379193054
This to be quite honest senpai

>>379192583
Don't you have gold to count, bignose?

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>>379192040
>make crappy art games exclusively
>people get tricked into buying shitty art games by snobby coastal liberal reviewers
>turns out most people dislike being tricked
>oh no why are people refunding my no effort game

>>379192583
>Stop offering refunds? I never got the point of refunds. Feels like a very American concept for crybabies.
That's funny because it only happened because of the laws in Europe.

>>379192583
Wow, I actually got a little mad.

>>379192915

>stop talking about video games

Antiquated shrugging motion.

>>379192485
it would be disappointing like all celebrity leaked sex videos

>>379192583
Stop making bad games? i never got the point of bad games. Feels like a very European concept for crybabies.

>>379192040
The more bad reviews a game gets the longer amount of time you have to refund it.

2 hours minimum of course

>>379193839
As a european i feel offended by this. Milking an art form for money is a jewish thing and you guys stopped us back when we tried to solve this issue!

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>start up the game
>play first level
>credits
Sorry, gamers! You played my entire game, no free rides. ;)

>the Chinese Room

MUH DEEP WALKING SIMS

Consumers deserve more rights than the producers, especially in a flooded market, especially in this market where the quality of a product cannot be easily judged by a simple screenshot or video. If the product is bad, regardless of how much time someone spent evaluating it, then you as a producer do not deserve money.

These people complain about a 2 hour limit when almost any other product has multiple days for you to evaluate it, for tangible goodds you can even re-sell them after this date if you wish. With video games the consumer is so fucked, these producers are actually entitled, just because you think your game is worth the money, doesn't make it so sweetie. I know you spent your time on it but if it's trash I aint paying. Go to a restaurant, eat part of your meal, and tell them it's not what you expected, not only will they comp you but they'll apologize. And people complain about 2 hours on non-tangible digital goods, give me a break.

>>379194473
Same goes for movies and music.

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>>379192040
>Man, fuck the two hour system, it's broken.
Then make games that appeal for longer than two hours??

The two hours start to count since you buy the game, download the game or run the game for first time?

Who are the Chinese room?

>>379194662
Agreed, at least with music they publish it publicly with adverts, you know if you like it or not without risk and can support it if you like it. The movie industry is a giant scam, I can't believe it still exists.
>Don't like it? Too bad, we're going to use your money to fund the sequel which is worse!
Undeserved profit; anti-consumer, anti-capitalist, tripe.

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If your game can be beaten in less than two hours than it deserves to get refunded.

>>379194880
they made the Amnesia sequel that was an hour an a half long.

>>379194754
Total ingame time

>>379192040
Should make it 4h plus full refund when online support stops

>>379192040
>How should Valve fix the refund system, /v/? It's not fair now.
Expand it to 2 weeks from the time you log 2 hours in game.

>Dear Esther
>Video game

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>>379192040
This was the scamming faggot that made the 20 min animated short story, right? Then sold it for like $20 as a "game".

>>379194954
That's not even true, but if I beat your game and I don't want to potentially play it again in the future it deserves to get refunded. Doesn't matter how long it is.

Make them a feature of the game itself that the devs decide on. If you don't like the refund policy, don't buy it. If the devs can't offer a decent refund policy, the game is probably shit anyway.

>>379192040
There is nothing to fix, if you can't get 2 hours of gameplay out of a game than it deserves to be refunded.

>>379195653
This feels like it would be a logistical nightmare for Valve

How would valve know what % you're at ?
Should all dev start implementing completion tracking because you decided to make shitty sub 2 hours experience ?

>>379192040
>implying valve has to fix anything
maybe game devs should step it up instead, and not make shitty short games

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>sell neat looking game for 50 dollars
>make long cut scene for 2 minutes
>game is literally press X once to win at the end
>ending is just YOU WIN game over screen
>can't refund game because 100% completion

>>379192040
He's right. You should be able to refund from 0% to 20%-15%

>>379192583
But then they would have to offer demos.

make it so that if the amount of refunds relative to purchases is too high, the game gets removed from steam and everyone that still owns it gets refunded

>>379196913
What if it's a really short game like gone home that you can reach 20% in a minute? Also how do you count percentage if it's an open world game?

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What are some games you Speedfunded, /v/?

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>>379197678
Pic also related

JUST

>>379192729
u want a cock in your ass tonight honey?

>>379192040
Stop being an entitled waste of space. There's enough resources out there to make an informed decision

>>379192364
This. Morrowind was my greatest buyers remorse since I completed it in 20 minutes.

>>379199578
>Implying you're that good enough to speedrun it

Shut the fuck up

>>379199857
Current record is like 6 minutes anon. Morrowind is trash

>>379199168
Actually I do. But my boypucci only accepts big black cocks.

>>379199946
Yeh I downloaded that CS:GO game everyone talking about and beat it in 15 minutes lol.

>>379192826
What art? We are talking about games here, games are not art.

>>379200057
what the fuuuuuck
alrite suit yourself fuckboi, you just lost your self a 10-incher because of your racism

>>379192583
for anyone who doesn't get the joke it's that EU law requires steam to offer refunds if they're going to do business in europe

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>>379199173
>talking about informed decisions
>make the decision that its a customer and not a dev posting that tweet

>>379192583
>consumer rights sounds like a very American concept

This is pretty hilarious bait.

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>>379200079
>Beating an online multiplayer game
You know there are age restrictions in this site right? Where is your mommy?

>>379195653
Except by european law you cannot refuse refunds.

Heck, even in br law (hue hue) we have 3 month of refund warranty in purchases.

>>379192040
it's simple, games prices should be worth according to it's total length

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It's pretty weird seeing the negativity around short games. It's like short films and short stories in books aren't a totally accepted, enjoyable and meaningful thing. Some of the best stuff I've read comes from short-stories, so I don't really see why I shouldn't give games a similar treatment and an honest chance.

You're really not doing anyone a favor by punishing experimentation and creativity. Wanting all games to follow one specific ruleset is a very quick way towards creative stagnation. Some games need to be short. Like in the other examples I've mentioned, they explore a specific idea and develop it for as much as the creator feel like doing so. Anything more would just be pointless padding and would probably hurt the game or story.

>>379200868
my game now takes 4 hours to reload each gun

>>379192159
>browsing /v/ often enough to see repeat threads

>>379201086

>>379201086
This is the thing. People don't hate short games.

People hate bad games. If you can beat a game in 2 hours and it was bad, the likelihood that people get a refund is high.

If you have a good game that's short, the likelihood that someone will replay it it is high, and as such, they wont refund it.

Go ahead and experiment. But if your game is 99% walking in first person then expect people to hate and refund your game.

>>379201086
Except that this has nothing to do with refunds. You can still make a short game regardless.

>b-but some people can buy my short game and refund it!

Yes, because law says so. It's a hardly petitioned consumer defense that exists in most developed countries (and some undeveloped ones as well). It sucks that some people abuse it, but it's retarded to think that just because you made a short game by your own decision you should have different rules.

>>379200302
My bf is a black man I met on /v/, he lets me get gangbanged by his friends. And I''m a cute pale 5'5 sissy boi who loves BBC :3

>>379201086
If the game was legit good and short, people wouldn't be refunding in the first place.

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>>379201086
they don't charge $20 for short books

>go to restaurant
>eat for 1h 50min
>"sir I don't enjoy this food, please refund!"
why is this allowed

>>379201739
Most restaurants don't refund food that is more than 20% eaten.

>>379201086
Superhot costs $35

I beat it in 1.4 hours

I enjoyed it, but I didn't enjoy it THAT much to be out $35.

>>379201832
what if you find a cut off finger on the bottom of your non-transparent soup?

>>379192040
No refunds for games <$5

Let developers decide if they're confident in their product.

>>379192040
28 days, full refund, no excuses. Snything less is an act of outright hatred of the consumer.

If I can beat your game in an hour with no actual replayability, you shouldn't be selling it, you should be trying to put some actual content in it.

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>>379201938

>>379201987
I'd be ok with this actually, the chink room would still be butthurt because they expect to charge $20 for walking simulators

everybody wins

>>379201938
why refund bonus meat?

>>379194949
How exactly is it anti-capitalist?
Serious question, and I agree with your other points.

If your game is so shit people want to refund it you deserve it. The consumer should always have more rights then the assholes trying to sell you trash. Now stop making this fucking thread and you cock addicted mods should fucking do your jobs for once.

>>379202557

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>>379197678
Killing floor 2.

>Speedfunded

Oh shit, I got like 70 hours out of it though.

>>379197678
You can do it with early access games. Play as much as you want and then refund it the day it leaves early access.

>>379192583
Actually consumers rights are a thing pretty much everywhere.
Even in third world countries.

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>>379201649

They totally fucking do. I love to read but that's the problem with books. Hey you want this outdated medium that you could also buy on a tablet for almost 75% less? I hate the idea of reading on a tablet but fuck bookstores suck for the most part. Dog eared copies of books lining stores and the only copy that they have left looks like someone chewed on it. Also for some reason I've noticed that the second hand bookstore near my house actually keeps their shit in good condition.

>>379192040
I think devs need to get over it and charge less. If a game takes 2 hours to beat, but costs $5 or less then I'm not going to even bother, but when shitty little indie games feel that 2 hours is worth $20 of mine, then they can kiss my ass all the way to the filing of the refund.

>>379202989
But it has to

LEAVE

Early access

>>379203356
>mentioning physical when the context is digital distribution

>>379192852
>gif
I don't get it

>>379192040
The refund system isn't that easy to abuse.
If people play your game for two hour and want their money back after that, they deserve it.

You can actually make a decent game that's about as short as that, but if people are so disappointed they get their money back en masse you have just failed as a developer.

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>>379203590

ummmm

>>379201649
be a reasonable man and look at what I replied to. It was about books and talked about them as a physical medium. also fuck your context.

>>379192040
>this thread
>every day
>for two months straight

MODSSSSSSSS

>>379203473
Most of them leave eventually. You might squat on it for a year or two but the second you get the notification it releases you refund. A rare game might never leave early access but in that case you might be able to argue for an abandoned game.

>>379192040
>It would be easy to retroactively implement a progress tracker in over tens of thousands of titles with various versions of progression.

They have the level of programming knowledge I expect from a company that don't put NPCs, animation, or gameplay mechanics in their games.

>>379203801
the thread is talking about refunds for a digital product

you aren't getting anything physical with games and writers make a majority of their money off digital sales

so if you want to talk about physical mediums i suggest you fuck off to a different thread.

My favorite game of all time can be beaten in 45 minutes and my second favorite takes maybe two, two and a half hours tops. Most games I love and play these days are shorter than ten hours.

Length doesn't matter if a game is good enough. I only quantify games in a "was the price to time ratio good?" way if the game sucks.

>>379204052

I thought I had finally found a reasonable man. Look pull up your baggy 40x28 pants and go waddle somewhere else. Like what are you even contributing. I responded to something that I had issue with and I just have no clue what the fuck you're even doing. Also the possibility to buy a physical copy of a game exists.

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>>379201086
>Some games need to be short

ok, then go and make your 2 hours long game
then give me a level editor so I can get 50 more hours from it

Refunds are so stupid like omg I dont want to like, make a short game sorta but now i need to make a longer game bcause steam has this refunds bs

>>379204314
I'm not being unreasonable, I just disagree with you.

as for what I'm contributing, absolutely nothing, just like you, and this thread that spammed nearly every day

and there's no possibility of buying a physical copy of a game through steam, and if you registered a physical copy TO steam, you can't refund it

I'm honestly baffled why you even decided to come into this thread if you don't know what the discussion is about, it's about refunds on steam by the way, since you seem to have missed that.

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>>379204591
then you dont want to make a short game, you want to make money.

>>379204591

just make it two hours and five minutes long

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>>379204369
BUT MY GAME ISN'T MEANT TO BE MODDED - IT'S PERFECT

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>>379204958

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>>379192040
Here's a simple solution for everyone, games that have Demos have a reduced window of refund. So a game that has a demo for it has a window of say 30 minutes to an hour to refund while a game that has no demo would still have the full 2 hour window to get a refund.

>>379204916
Is that a VR hickok game?

>>379192040
Why is this thread still being made. Why are people still replying to it?

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>>379192040
>a system works flawslessly
>"let's change it because why not"

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How about having an actuall support team that actually tries to solve your problems and decides if you should get a refund on a case by case basis?

Fucking shady Hong Kong keysellers have 24h life chat support. You'd expect a company like Valve to have 24/7 phone support.

>>379204885

I responded to a post about saying that nobody charges $20 for a short book. I contested that, threw my 2 cents in and that was the end of it. You responded in a way that appeared to me as though you hadn't read what I had responded to and I got frustrated because you seemed like an idiot. Long story short it just looks like we care too much about being right that actually understand and communicate with one another.

>>379205319
nah, its just one of the levels in the shooting gallary for a vr game. its named hickok tho, so its clearly intended to be his thing.

games also got the mas and the union pistol with the horsehoe magazine, that ian at ol forgotten weapons just happppened to be like the only person ever to review. pure coincidence im sure

If I order a meal at a restaurant and it tastes like shit, I am going to want a full refund, not a 99% refund because I took a bite.

These morons don't seem to understand what the concept of a refund is. Stop making games with less than two hours of content and this won't be a problem.

>>379201526
I see post like this and ask myself where it all went so wrong.

>>379200743
Correct me if I am wrong but Valve got sued multiple times by consumer groups about this so yeah if devs want their games on Steam they have to fucking accept the refund system and make sure they make a game over 2 hours long.

>>379192583
There wouldnt be so many refunds if developers weren't lying like greedy fucks they are. Stop over hyping or advertising your shit and people won't get dissappointed.

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Maybe if your shit indie game can be beaten in under 2 hours, you don't deserve my money.

>>379203948
Wait anon I might be retarded but you imply that you can refund any game that leaves early access?

>>379192040
WTF I HATE SJW NU-MALE DEVS NOW

>>379206541
When a game leaves early access it resets the refund window since it thinks it just released. It's what enabled the mass refund of Killing Floor 2 despite having a hundred hours in it.

>>379192583
Saving this one.

>>379206725
Thanks anon I feel like a retard for not knowing this. I would too refund KF2 it isn't bad but it didn't really hit the mark.

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>>379192040
By making refund times base cost...based.

50-60 dollar vidya gets 2 hour 30m refunds, 30-40 is 2 hours, 10-20 is 1 hour 30m.

This prevents hackjobs like Chinese room who force customers to pay a lot for nothing while keeping small indie titles from getting blow up.

This also prevent shit like sales reducing refund times by calculating off the original base cost, which is what the developer "thinks" it's worth.

>>379203473
>dayz

I wanted to play it so bad, but i don't buy early access at all.

>>379207148
AAA games definitely need more time

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>>379192583

The Chinese Room shouldn't charge 15+ dollars for a 1-2 hour "interactive experience". Consumer protection > producer protection.

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>>379192583
I miss Hitler so much.

>you beat the first level, 100% complete! The rest is just bonus content
no

>>379192040
Not letting chinese room's shit games on steam

The refund period should be longer than 2 hours.

>>379208601
What consumer rights are being infringed upon? Misleading advertising is one thing, but in what world do consumers have the right to be protected from making shitty purchases?

>>379201086
>Some of the best stuff I've read comes from short-stories
Depends on what you mean by this. Most short stories are garbo. And even the ones that are good are very lacking in substance and meaning.

>>379192040
It's REALLY simple.
Games should be priced off time till game completion.
Simple, fair, Representative.
Two hour games are just cock.

>>379208994
that's not simple at all, game completion time is completely subjective

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>Expend the minimum time possible making a lineal game who takes under 2 hours to complete.
>Be surprised when people don't like it
Make the game longer or with more replayability then.

>>379208935
Read fap fiction if you want substance in your stories

>>379192651
>shit version of warning forever

>>379208994
That's very similar to a rental. $5/hour and then you play for 1000 hours?

>>379192040
Maybe developers should stop making games that can be completed in two hours.

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>>379192583

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>walk up to bar
>order shot
>wtf look how tiny this is lol
>unless you can put in the effort and make a real drink I'm not paying for this

>>379201086
Most bullet hell games are 30 minutes long at best.

>devs make a ridiculously short walking simulator
>cry when people have wised up to that shit and won't pay $20 for a 90 minute long "cinematic experience" anymore

The japanese industry produces real visual novels which span many hours. Of course writing more than 5 pages would be too much effort for the average SJW hipster dev who expects you to buy his low-effort product.

>>379210176
>walk about to the bar
>order shot
>it's free because I'm a good, regular patron

>>379201086
The problem is these games rarely sell at under $5. Usually devs try to milk out $20-$30 on this shit.

>>379192040
>put obvious padding and or time gates.
Chinese room is fucking retarded

>>379210529
Then don't buy it. If no one buys it the price will go down.

>>379211161
>>put obvious padding and or time gates.

You mean like actual game content?

>>379201206
>posting repeat threads on /v/ yourself

>>379192040
Is this shitty unethical devs who are greedy?

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The system is fine as it is.

Shitty indie devs should eat my ass hole with hollandaise sauce.

>>379205990
>where it all went so wrong
1945

>>379210141
>servers in the us are paid $2 to $3 per hour
This is illegal in most states and is not an excuse. Most states set a minimum of like 75% if tips make up a good portion of their income, and in a few states they're not allowed to pay a penny under the minimum wage regardless of how much they make in tips.

Live in a shit state get paid shit wages.

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>>379211632
I agree. If you charge 5 bucks for a shitty 2 hour game people are less likely to refund it than 20 bucks for an hour of walking while some pretentious brit drones on and on.

>>379192364
Good good... time to add those waiting mechanics. Also in app currency and finally ads. Free games for everybody, mates!

If a game is less than two hours, I will only refund it if it isn't priced accordingly. I don't mind paying a dollar or two for a short experience like that, as long as it's good.

But really, the venn diagram of "People who are interested in art games" and "People who refuse to play something less than two hours long" has to have basically no overlap.

>>379192040
I had to refund ABZU this past weekend. Didnt even finish it, the framerate was unbearable.

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>>379192040
Every game now has a mandatory free 2 hour "demo" this way devs can't bitch about this non-issue anymore.

>>379210141
The "get paid less than minimum wage" thing is with the assumption that if tips and gratuity are not enough to equal at least minimum wage per hours worked, the restaurant will then pay the difference. Waiters/waitresses always make minimum wage one way or the other, but it's just a matter of whether their employers or the customers split the difference.

>>379216842
That would mean these devs would have to produce 2 hours of content on top of a worthwhile commercial product. That's like, four times the content, you entitled ass

>>379217074
Servers at good restaurants can make close to $100/hour when it's busy. The idea is that it averages with the dead shifts when they make nothing.

>>379216842
Then you'll have developers whine about
>not having enough time and resources to do a demo on top of DLC and main game
>low sales due to demos that allegedly don't represent the full game

>>379217274
I guess it works differently depending on the facility, but my ex worked at a high-end country club, and her "wage" was around $2.30/hr. On the very rare occasions when she didn't make out like a bandit due to gratuity and tips, the club would bump her up to $7.25/hr, or whatever would put her at equivalent to minimum wage per hour worked. Regardless, she consistently made much more working that job (and her other waitress job at a bar) than if she were working any other entry-level part-time position.

>>379217640
It's not uncommon for servers to make 60k/year, better than many jobs.

>>379203473
Hoo boy, I cannot WAIT for Castle Story to leave.

>>379192040
>Sell a 5 minute game for 5 dollars
>Make the intro cut scene unstoppable and last for 2 minutes
>Nobody can refund their game
Thanks for helping me game the system chinese room fags.