Fighting Games

>>379184019
obviously

Casuals don't give a fuck about learning how to play anyway so it doesn't make more of them buy it, they'll play two matches online and complain about projectile or throw spam or something similar.

All it does is make the people who actually want to play like the game less.

the better player is always going to win
dumbing down the game or giving more tools for beginners to abuse only hurts it in the long run

>>379184019
Yes

What happened to the Rising Thunder/Riot Fighting Game?

Depends. Making a fighter casual from the start isn't the same, nor as bad, as casualizing a franchise. But at the same time, simplifying it but still keeping the core gameplay feel is necessary.

>>379184790
Still in development.

No, lowering the floor does that.
If everyone is competing at "ceiling" level mechanically then you have a meritocracy

>>379184121
this. I used to be a long time SF fan, but didn't bother with SFV bc all the bullshit

>>379185070
So, vaporware?

Yes

See: Street Fighter V.

SF4 and MvC3 ended up fine. Broken messes just like their past iterations but absolutely nothing like we're seeing currently with SFV, MvCI and GGXrd to an extent. I think those will be the true tests to see if lowering the skill ceiling will produce a worst product.

>>379185790
>GGXrd
>Mess to a extent

Literally kill yourself scrub AC+R was a fucking broken mess. Force breaks and FRCs were some of the worst mechanics that did nothing but hurt the neutral game. YRCs are dumb but besides the input eating controllable.

Seriously you're a fucking idiot if you think SF4/MVC3 are near as good as GGXrdRev/Rev2 are.

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If they didn't lower the skill gap your subhumans would be crying like you always have:
>ST's input leniency is too rough, I can't get hadoukens, let alone DPs, it's bullshit to expect me to put hundreds of hours into practicing the basics; fighting games are about strategy, not who has the best fingers!
>Third Strike is just too tough, man! I shouldn't NEED to do charge partitioning or link overheads into supers; what is this cr.mk into super confirm bullshit? Fighting games should be about strategy, not execution!
>1f links are total garbage and the reason why I lose, fighting games should be about strategy, not mini-games!
>Wow, I only lose because this SCRUB can hit every max damage combo with no issues, this is bullshit, there should a CLEAR difference between my time in the lab and the casual audience!

>>379186171
I didn't mean to imply Xrd is as bad as SF4 or the vs series, but to say that Xrd is a lower ceiling version of it's past versions which you can't deny even a little bit.

I think Xrd will end up a really good game, much better than +R as an ending for AC but since Xrd is still going yes, it is lumped into the same bracket as SFV and MvCI for it's franchise.

>>379184019
The best solution is always lowering the skill floor while keeping the skill ceiling.

If you take both down it results in an ultimately boring fighting game for competitive players.

>>379184019
Lowering the skill ceiling is not always a bad thing, depending on how it's done and to what degree. The input buffer in SFV is a good thing because all it does is let more players access optimal damage while still seperating the skilled from the unskilled via hitconfirms and setups. However the way they limited juggles to specific moves and designed hitboxes to suck ass so they wouldn't be too strong neutrally and force a more up close style of play was a bad way to lower the skill ceiling.

Xrd mostly benefitted from lowering it's skill ceiling as it's still a demanding game, so it can be done right.

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>>379186603
>implying it's the same people who complain about these

>>379187007
>the imput delay is a good thing
You know you can do the daigo parry on SF5 with your eyes closed, right?

>>379187607
>implying it's not
These people are just LowNiggerFraud tier retards.
>you only beat me because I can't hit those 1f-links
>you only beat me because this games let's you get the big damage easy

>>379186603
This. The "problem" in SFV is not the execution anyways.

>>379184019
naw just make it like the arcade MvC easy modes where shit can be done easily though not optimally and have lil easy mode thing on the side of the player using it so everybody watching an know.

which would serve as a way for new players to get an idea and learn while at the same time being at least some what competitive against those that already know how to play.

>>379184019
JoJo reference...

>>379185790
SFIV and MvC3 still had combo depth and things you needed to learn to be good at them. I'd say SFIV, MvC3, and T7 are the absolute lowest amount of "dumbing down" a fighter before they become unfun baby games.

>>379187839
Yes, and so what?

3rd strike parries and SFV Ryu V-skill are completely different in terms of how they get used. 3rd strike parries were faster and could be option selected at the expense of having a more narrow parry window, while Ryu Vskill is slow and has so much recovery you can slap him with a counter hit combo but has a wider parry window.

Chip kills are also nowhere near as common in SFV so it's highly unlikely you'd be using the Vskill parry that way in the first place, as opposed to 3rd strike where the japanese top players were fairly consistent with parrying Chun's super which caught jwong by surprise in the days before footage of international play was everywhere.

It's apples and grapes man.

>>379184019
Alright, I'll give you 3 examples of dead games.

SF2 - High execution barrier, requiring precise inputs just for simple moves.
Status: Top 3 FG of all time, dead game.

Rising Thunder - Low execution barrier, specials are simply directional+attack.
Status: DOA, largely forgotten.

Divekick - Possibly lowest execution barrier possible, literally 2 buttons and no directionals.
Status: Fun as fuck for 10 minutes or when drunk, dead game.

Perhaps its the games they were competing with at the time for an audience. SFV, Marvel, and Smash are all still alive. Injustice (Read: MK), Tekken, and some Anime games are actually played.

It's debatable which has the highest skill ceiling and execution barrier, so that's not actually the primary reason people decide to play or not.

I think the main reason people play any particular FG is character draw. If your favorite character/hero is in the game and it's fun to play them, why wouldn't you play that game over others?

Yes that's why persona 4 arena was boring.

>>379188436
This doesn't remedy the real problem; people just don't care about getting good. The worst and most common kinds of casuals are the ones who only want their easy win and give up when they don't get it.

Unless you can somehow cater to this crowd without giving away too much from the veteran base, the attachment rate for newcomers will always really low.

>>379188746
yeah and it's cute as fuck.

>>379190753
For the modern examples, Smash is probably the biggest standout.

Casual players actually have a very low execution barrier. You can play semi-competently with only a basic understanding.
But for high competitive, there are so many advanced movement techniques. This isn't exactly true for many of the other games played right now, and speaks to Smash's longevity. I don't actually like smash at all

I'd say Marvel is on the higher end of the execution barrier - with proper execution, you can 1-touch kill any character. Casual players can't compete at all, so this game is dying out apart from hardcore fans.

SFV is (imo) on the lower end of the execution barrier, with many move shortcuts, lenient inputs and links.
It's got a big draw because of the legacy of the series, likeable cast, and low entry barrier; you can get far with a few basic combos and most mixups aren't a nightmare to block.

It's hard to say if any of these games are going to flounder or flourish. SFV has come back a little since it's poor launch, but I don't see it having a huge revival since there's no "Super SFV" coming ever as a player draw.

I personally like the visual style of Anime games, but some of the mixups and characters are just a little too crazy/marvel-ish.