How would /v/ fix Steam refunds so devs stop complaining?

>HE POSTED IT AGAIN

>>379101951

Holy shit, the tears of these hack developers that the refund system has caused just keeps on giving. I hope the butthurt never ends.

If I was a dev I would make the game 3 hours long

>mom I posted that tweet on /v/ again

>>379101951
Limit users to two refunds a month and then offer diminishing returns on the returned funds after the second refund.

>>379102635
They’re literally padding their “games” like this.

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>>379101951
>developer makes shitty game that takes less than an hour to finish
>"waaaaaah it should be based on percentage completed!! GIVE ME MY MONEY!!!"

>>379101951
Increase it by a minute every time a dev bitches on twitter. Keep a running tally on the front page of Steam.

>>379101951
>Fix.
There is nothing to fix, senpai. Tough shit for the devs that make "games" that can be beaten in under 2 hours.

>>379102762
Fuck consumers, am I right?

Dev here

Refunds are good

>>379101951
>so devs stop complaining?
Literally impossible

>>379102635
They already do this

If refunds worked on a percentage, people would boot the game, change their aspect ration, tweak their sound settings, and then they would be over the time to refund

>>379101951
Only sell games that are definitely longer than 2 hours

Friendly reminder this is one autist or a bot reposting the same threads over and over. Fireden search is not working right now so can't link the archives. Do your duty and report/sage.

>>379102906
Fuck impulsive fuckwits and judgemental retards.

Steam Refunds aren't a bad thing but it's being abused as hard as possible. This is why you can't have nice things.

>>379101951
Why is this thread literally posted every day exactly in the same format?

I really want to know who is behind this shitposting. It's not funny. Literally fuck off retard tier.

>>379102837
Exactly. If devs want it based on % completed then players should be able to see what % they're at before they refund or how long the game is. If anything it will make it worse for them because once people see they made a shitty hour long game selling for AAA prices they'll refund in the first 5 minutes

>>379101951
Let em complain

>>379101951
I wouldn't because it only fucks bad developers

why are Americans so quick to fuck themselves out of their own consumer rights?

>>379103102
Hello shitty indie dev cucklord. Unhappy that your POS "game" isn't making you any money?

>>379101951
>Skyrim has infinite quests
>refund it after 500 hours
I couldn't finish the game, so I wanted a refund

>>379103254
americans are so quick to fuck themselves out of all rights
see: alt rights and berntards not realizing what they're advocating leads to internet censorship and fuckery

>based off percentage
>game is so short that the percentage basically means going through the main menu and intro cutscene
No, that's retarded. The only answer is to put out fucking demos you chumps.

>>379103347
That's not how it works. Stop being deliberately obtuse

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>>379103254
Because they're a bunch of selfish greedy little shitstains who think nothing of the needs of others and mostly seek profit and pleasure above all things.

Refunds would have been fine if people didn't go out and turn it into a system for demoing games. Not to mention how retarded some people are in general about judging a game early on. Some of my favorite games are games I put down the first time because I didn't enjoy it, but later returned and had a great time.

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wouldn't it fuck with developers instead? if they have to state how long the game is they can't write the game is 2 hours long because nobody will buy it

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Fuck off autist

https://boards.fireden.net/v/search/image/vEC4ClxdZhQvcAchqF0TFQ/

2 hours isn't a hard limit on your refund anyways.

>>379103051
Sure it’s their own fault for buying into the newest shitty pixel walker, but on a bigger scale fuck the creator for trying to scam people with their bad creations. Cull the shitty creators.

Okay so if i play 15 minutes of a 2 hour long game and say its shit will the devs then say

"But you didnt even play it long enough"

>>379103051

What "nice things" aren't allowed because of the refund policies Mr. Goldbergstein?

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>>379103336
>Bitching about a thread that outward supports indie devs
>get called an indie cucklord
Can you not read?

>>379103525
you should automate this
it's pretty easy and would prevent threads from even starting

JUUUST

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and who cares that they complain?

>>379103254
We were raised thinking the american dream is something to aspire for. That anyone can become rich and we should protect the rich and corporations because we want to become that, so why not fuck ourselves over on the off chance we get to become the ones that stand above all the others?

Its really fucking stupid and I dont get it, but that's the general mindset of most the people I work with. Sell away your rights as a poor or middle class because there's hope you could become more and you want it to not suck at all on the off chance you do get that ahead in life.

>Base refunds on achievements.
>All indie games only have one achievement just for booting the game.

>>379103559
I'll side with the creators every time. It's the fault of idiot consumers who buy before thinking or have absurd values about price versus perceived play value.

>>379102762
I'd honestly rather have the percentage shit in the OP Mr. Kikester.

https://boards.fireden.net/v/search/image/_y75gJBYHLAtO2sI62gxMg/
Why does /v/ have so many bots?

I don't buy shit games.

>>379103446
So some casual is going to decide the time threshold for refund?
Or the publisher?
Fill me in genius

>>379103564
Well the nice thing would be the refund system as it currently stands. But because people aren't using in a "fair" way, it's going to have to be changed eventually.

>>379103756

If you're buying more than two games a month with poor judgement or without effective research, it's your own fucking fault for making poor choices with your money.

>>379101951
you don't

tell people to fuck off

>>379103732
I side with the consumers every time because, again, only bad developers are getting fucked by the refund policy. This policy, by the way, is there to protect consumers and it's up to developers to get good so their product is worth the value they assign to it.
>>379103840
2 hours is fine

>>379103051
If the games were good and not short as fuck refund "abuse" wouldn't be an issue.

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>>379101951
>Shit out a story-based game that takes less than 2 hours to finish with no gameplay or replayability
>Complain when people return your shitty game
>W-WELL CLEARLY IT'S NOT MY FAULT, THE SYSTEM'S BROKEN!
Every time.

>>379103756
as an example
>buy MGSV
>get to desert, fuck around for 1200 hours
>do no story missions
>refund
its retarded and these scam artists want to keep putting out games you can beat in 15 minutes
if I dont wanna play your shit after 2 hours your game sucks balls

>>379103894
I would honestly agree with you if demos are still a thing. They're not so I use the refund as my own way to demo products. Watching videos and reading reviews and opinion pieces are all well and good but fuck if I know how the game would play in the end. Cars have test drives, games should have demos. Even books have samples that you could read online these days.

>>379103347
Good analogy, too bad you don't know you are only legible for a refund if you play less than 2 hours or the game is completely broken.

>>379103732
Creators base their living off of the consumers. If they don’t make them happy then they don’t make a living. Fuck shitty creators that can’t put out a quality product. They deserve to be punished by these systems. Maybe next time they’ll make something worthwhile.

>pirate game
>like
>eventually buy it on steam

>get shit indie game on steam
>dont like it
>refund it

Indie devs should be punished for producing shit.

>>379103894

It's only being used "unfairly" in the case of "games" that are finished within 2 hours i.e complete garbage.

If "indie devs" don't like it then they can put their trash on other platforms instead.

>>379103935
>again, only bad developers are getting fucked by the refund policy.
No. You're giving way too much credit to the random shitstains who use Steam. TONS of refunds are happening because there's abusive retards with short attention spans and strange standards running around.

By your logic, nobody ever uses the refund system in a bad way and every good game ever has an extremely low refund rate. But that's not true.

>>379103996

Guess what fucknut! If you order and eat dish at a restaurant but find the portion to be lacking, you aren't entitled to a refund.

Same applies here. There's nothing wrong with short games and it's never hard to find out how long a game is with a little shred of google research.

>>379104159
see >>379103446

Every half hour of play reduces refund amount by 1 dollar

>>379101951
Devs should be required to disclosed an expected play length and be punished for fabricating that data on release. If a player has played that game more than a percentage of the play length, they don't get a refund.

So then the consumer will be informed about what they are about to buy. You don't have the movie length and the page count of a book hidden from you when you buy them.

Obviously this has some flaws, but there is no perfect solution to this.

>>379101951
>denuvo works fairly well for some time after a game releases
>dev can't blame piracy anymore
>blames refunds instead

kek

>>379104239
is this you?
>>379103935
so you want it both ways, percentage or two hours, whatever you hit first
fuck off. if your game can't capture attention after two hours you deserve nothing

>>379104260
base price?
price you bought it for?
why should other customers be subject to different counters?

>>379104237
>Guess what fucknut! If you order and eat dish at a restaurant but find the portion to be lacking, you aren't entitled to a refund.

You know you're a fucking retard when you start using food analogies.

Why not just make demos?

>>379104237
By your logic everyone is using the refund system in a bad way, and this is clearly not the case. Can you please post a source on the refund system being abused? And not one from the developers themselves, since they are a biased party.
>>379104430
No, I'm a different anon from that one. Percent based is stupid.

>>379104564
Because then they would blame demos

>>379104439
Base price obviously

>>379104512
Food analogies are dogshit but my logic is unassailable.

Before eating the meal at the restaurant, you had a chance to assess the portion size visually. Before you bought the game on Steam, you had a chance to research the average playtime and overall value of the purchase.

But once you've already fucking beaten most of the game? Too fucking bad kiddo. You at the food. You can't just dine and dash.

>>379104237
>Guess what fucknut! If you order and eat dish at a restaurant but find the portion to be lacking, you aren't entitled to a refund.
True but you can see exactly how big the meal is either in the menu or when it comes. So, maybe the devs should state outright how long a single playthrough of their game is for the customers to factor into their purchase decision.

>>379102762
Diminishing returns on refunds is illigeal you moron

>>379104237
>Guess what fucknut! If you order and eat dish at a restaurant but find the portion to be lacking, you aren't entitled to a refund.

More like:
>Order a dish.
>Smaller than what you thought you've ordered.
>Tastes bland as shit even.
>Ask for a refund since this is NOT what you ordered.
>"You are NOT entitled to a refund, FAG!"

>>379104182
I think the question here is why you use the refund system to demo a game when you could pirate it to demo it, if you go over the limit you have no problems and you just can keep using the save if you want to continue, considering the game is cracked of course.

take this shit thread to /biz/ you fucking retards

>>379104694
You can find that information on google easily.

>>379101951
Devs should make sure the first hour of their game is engaging and hooks the player and not an extended, grueling tutorial.

>>379104564
Most of those games are the length of demos.

Maybe devs should make good games that people don't want to refund.

>>379104709
The moment you started eating the dish despite being unhappy with the portion is the moment you abdicated your right to a refund.

Players who care about game size/length should be googling stuff before buying rather than throwing fits and demanding refunds when they make mistakes.

>>379101951

Refunds have made me more likely to take risks in games. They've also made it SIGNIFICANTLY more likely that I'll buy via Steam rather than third parties unless the game is sub-$10.

This only harms devs that make bad games. A good game that can be finished in two hours but still deserves replays won't be harmed by this policy.

>>379104376
this they're literally just trying to find a scapegoat
denuvo for a week + steam refunds = if your game doesn't sell well enough to break even, it's a fucking shit game

>>379104965
Surely you jest?

>>379104564
You have to understand that devs these days, especially indie devs for some reason, think that they're owed sales just for making the game. The thought of having to make a demo so customers can make informed decisions probably never even crosses their minds.

>>379104767
>considering the game is cracked of course.
That's exactly why. I pirate to try when I can and refund when I can't. We were talking about the refund policy so I didn't think it was worth mentioning.

Nice meme thread but I agree with the guy. If you're being a cheap indie game that's a few hours long (which is, btw, everything that thechineseroom makes) then you shouldn't be able to refund it after you play through the game. This policy just encourages indie devs to pad out their short "bite sized" games just so that people don't refund them.

>>379104237

>Guess what fucknut! If you order and eat dish at a restaurant but find the portion to be lacking, you aren't entitled to a refund.

Are you implying that this doesn't happen? Because it does. Pretty much any restaurant with a reputation to uphold takes customer complaints seriously.

>>379104965
This would be too difficult. It's far easier to bitch about consumer rights and say you're a victim of an evil system that doesn't want you to make money
>>379105057
That's not how restaurants work, you can refund at any time. If you go and ask for too many refunds, however, you will be likely banned from the restaurant.

>>379105057
The devs are the ones throwing fits though. The customers are just casually hitting that refund button.

>>379105081
It also should make devs put more effort in their films- I mean, GAMES.

>>379101951
by filtering this image

>>379105191
They won't refund you because you're unhappy with portion sizes. Especially if you finished the meal. They might give you some free bread or something though.

So, If I buy a game on early access, is the 2 hour timer reset when the game is officially released?

>>379105158
it's not hard at all to make an indie game longer than 2 hours
most indie games absolutely are

>>379105229
>you can refund at any time
Not if you ate the food. If you clean your plate, you have no right.

I would get rid of them and force consumers to not be retarded when purchasing things.
There's no reason for refunds to exist in the first place

>>379104198
A 2 hours story driven walking simulatior that warned what it was will never make a cent specially if it's sold for 5 bucks.

>dev puts the completion counter to 100% immediately on opening the game
>devs refuse to implement a completion counte
>devs refuse to retrofit games with a completion counter, assuming the dev studio even exists anymore

Wow what a great system with no drawbacks at all, it's so much better than the current system whose only detractors are indie shits who make hour-long walking simulators.
Short games don't get refunded, bad ones do.

>>379104689
It's almost as if gameplay (or enjoyment of the game), as with taste, is not completely discernible from a visual assessment alone. The issue with a food analogy is that after you've eaten a portion of your meal the restaurant cannot do anything with it because of your consumption of the product. With a digital game it's not as if you've consumed the product and is unable to be distributed to other consumers.

>>379101951
>game has a legit demo that properly demonstrates its gameplay
no refunds
>game has no demo, an incomplete demo or a bullshot demo
refundable

>>379105057
How the fuck you know a dish tastes like shit without trying it first.

>>379105158
>This policy just encourages indie devs to pad out their short "bite sized" games just so that people don't refund them.
Most Indie games are padded out in the first 15 minutes since you're just walking around and reading after the introduction is done.

>>379105472
But you HAVE consumed the product.

It's just an endlessly reproducible product with no manufacturing cost on copies after the first.

>>379105381
Yet you still can, but if you keep doing it you will be asked to not come back. Restaurants accept that sometimes they screw up, and they understand that you might use that to your advantage. However, they will ban you from coming back if they feel they are being taken advantage of.

>>379101951
I wouldn't change a thing about it. I refund if I think the game is crap. That includes games that can be completed in 2 hours, if it's dogshit I refund it.

>>379101951
He isn't wrong. Some games you aren't out of the tutorial yet after 2 hours (most of those games I consider garbage), but its hard to know if its good by then yet.

But in the case of short as fuck games like that it should be required for them to post the main game (not counting side content) length of a game in its info.

Also why must we always see this.

>>379105443
I'm playing the devil's advocate here because I agree that this current system is a lot simpler but couldn't you just have it default to 2 hours and have a valve approved "completion time" for shorter games.

>>379105424
Don't make a walking simulator then? There's a market for everything , even for that shit, if even enthusiasts of that genre refund your game you should stop making shit and selling it.

It's really funny when you think about it a bit. A few years back, an 8 hour game would be derided for being short as fuck. These days, 2 hours is already considered enough for an entire game's length with absolutely zero replay value. What in the absolute fuck?

>>379105485
But the dish was already visibly too small right? That's the main issue. He brought flavor into it to try and dilute the analogy.

If he ate the entire portion, he can't ask for a refund. It's that simple. Surely if it was so bad, he would have stopped at the first couple bites right?

>>379105741
What if the dish if small enough for one bite?

>>379104965
So 2 hours games should not be made even if they cost less than 5 bucks? And even if their replayability make 'em like 10 hours long by being enjoyable? Well lose all indies, good or bad, like this.

>>379105325
My point isn't that indie games longer than 2 hours don't exist, but that indie games shorter than two hours should be allowed to exist while still being profitable.

>>379105624
>Yet you still can
they will deny you.
>However, they will ban you from coming back if they feel they are being taken advantage of.
Which will happen 99% of the time when you try to ask for a refund on a meal you've already eaten. Or refuse to pay or whatever the fuck the situation may be.

Just to be clear: When I say "eaten" I mean "finished". You have plenty of right to contest things if you don't like them. But if you ate the whole thing? Fuck off.

>>379101951
devs wont stop complaining
Just like you wont stop posting this over and over and over and again

>>379101951

Tell them to clean the sand out of their collective vaginas and go fuck themselves.

>>379101951

I'm actually okay with this but I want a 2 hour minimum as well. Longer games require much more than a 2 hour investment to determine their quality.

>>379105839
Then again, it's his fault for eating it. He went in and ordered a dish that consisted of a single Lima Bean, ate the bean and then demanded his money be returned to him.

>>379101951
Valve should just kick The Chinese Room off of Steam entirely. Then they can sale their shitty non-games on their own website, not give refunds and nothing of value will have been lost.

>>379105923
They will give you the meal for free, they would rather not deal with one angry customer and give them their feel good free meal.

>>379105883
Making good games that don't make people want to refund them will kill all indie games? Did you read what he said or what you typed before hitting "Post"?

>>379105158
If those short games were any good then people wouldn't refund them, these devs are assuming the worst of people and blaming the system for their own failures.
Besides, developers worked out how to pad short games out back in the 80s, just make them more difficult. People generally don't complain about short hard games, only short shitty ones.

>>379105697
Perhaps. I wouldn't expect Valve to want to take on the obligation to time all the dollar indie games on Steam though, especially since this issue is only purported to exist by a very small number of developers. Once that small group gets special treatment for their one-day-of-work-games everyone will start wanting it even if they don't currently see it as a problem.

>>379105883
>So 2 hours games should not be made even if they cost less than 5 bucks?
You imply it's impossible to make a 2 hour game worth a fuck. Journey was a 2 hour game at $15, and I'd say it was certainly worth it. I've bought games that took 30 minutes to beat for less than $5 and I left completely satisfied.

Refunds are a failure of the developer, they aren't the fault of the consumer.

>>379103254
Jewish influence

>All these food analogies
Are all of you mouth breathing retards only good at eating?

>>379106064
>They will give you the meal for free
No. They will ban you and take the loss on your bill. They just don't want to deal with cops and litigation .

Sure, the result is similar, but you can't ever return to that restaurant because they BANNED you.

>>379106029
If the bean was shit, than how is it his fault?

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>>379104564
>You'll never get a great demo like FF8's demo ever again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkEoruBRVKo
I miss those days.

>>379101951
Make games longer than 2 hours

I wonder if you go to /ck/ and make a thread people will try to argue with videogame analogies :thinking:

Developers don't complain about Steam refunds.

"Developers" complain because their "games" are a load of garbage and that's why people refund them.

>>379106221
When he chose to eat it. He's responsible for eating the bean. He chose to do that. He could have decided not to eat it, given his hunger and the likelihood that the bean in question was probably going to be underwhelming on a taste, visual and even textural levels.

Once he eats the bean, the contract between him and the restaurant is fulfilled. His opinion doesn't enter into it. They said they'd sell him a bean for $X and he got a bean in exchange for $X.

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I've been on a buy, beat and refund spree.

Any recommendations?

>>379106263

Most demo discs back in the day had more content than most modern games. I had a PS2 demo disc that i got by mailing one of those post cards they used to put inside game boxes. I probably got 50 hours out of that thing easy. Even bought a few of the games. I miss when games actually knew how to market themselves.

>>379106214
>No they won't give you the meal for free.
>But they will take the loss on your bill.
You're being stupid, you literally just admitted that's what they would do while saying that's not what they would do. And steam does the same thing, if you abuse the refund system they prevent you from making refunds. Thanks for playing

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>>379106423

>>379106471
Expanding on this, the situation with steam refunds is similar to a bunch of retards buying beans and expecting hamburgers and throwing fits because they decided to eat and order with a noseplug in and blinders on.

>>379106471
Looks like we have a lawyer here.

>>379104564
>Take time away from dev to make demo
>If demo is liked, people may still not buy because they got their fill of the gameplay
By not offering a demo, devs force all interested parties to either buy the game or sod off. Or pirate

I honestly can't think of a game I've bought and played for less than two hours anyway. Feel like if your game can't grab someone's attention for that minuscule amount of time you've fucked something up.

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>>379106502
the other piece of shit I refunded recently

What's to fix? The devs bitching on twitter is just icing on top of it all.

>>379106502
I recommend you get a job you cheap fuck

>>379105602
>But you HAVE consumed the product
In a sense, but one is physically consumed while the other is not.

>>379106553
>if you abuse the refund system they prevent you from making refunds.
I'm saying the infinite refund system is inherently open to abuse and needs to be tightened up.

>You're being stupid, you literally just admitted that's what they would do while saying that's not what they would do
You can't give somebody what they stole from you.

>>379106502
Not really a "beat" game, but Geometry Wars can be fun for a bit.

It's not a system made for devs. It's made for the consumer. Which is you, you fucking retards.

>>379106702
Sure, which is why you have to keep that in mind when using food analogies.

>>379106604
Yeah because it's never the case when a game is misrepresented. You get shown a burger and you're given a pickle between two buns.

>>379106704
There is no infinite refund system because steam does prevent people from infinitely refunding games. Sure, some people are dicks and will abuse the refund system to play free games. But the two hour limit is fine otherwise

>>379106661
how did you finish it that quickly? It took me 4 hours to finish that

>>379101951
>agreeing with the chinese room on anything, let alone anything relating to video games
cute

>>379106850
YOU HAVE THE ENTIRE INTERNET AT YOUR FINGERTIPS.

DO SOME FUCKING RESEARCH. I SPEND ABOUT 5 MINUTES ON GOOGLE BEFORE MAKING A "RISKY" OR "BLIND" PURCHASE OF ANY SORT OF GAME.

>How would /v/ fix Steam refunds so devs stop complaining?
Its honestly fine how it is now, the only devs who complain are walking sim devs who aren't even actual video game devs.
Also Chinese Room ruined Amnesia so they can go fuck themselves.

>>379106502

The Shivah can be completed in less than an hour. :^)

>>379106964
Don't die

I also didn't fuck around with the games menus because I had already played the GOG version.

>>379106987
Yeah I've never heard of anyone ever buying a game on the day it came out.

>>379107175
Buying Day 1 is inherently risky and once again, the fault lies with the consumer.

>>379106704
>I'm saying the infinite refund system is inherently open to abuse and needs to be tightened up.
The automated refund system is inherently open to abuse. All that needs to be done is for a person to look at the refund request and see that the customer had already completed the game in question in the short amount of time played. Personally, I think it's scummy for anyone to do shit like this, to abuse a system and get their fill of anything for no charge. However, I won't ever defend game devs putting out shit that can be completed in under 2 hours on the first playthrough under regular play conditions either. If I had to choose between losing my right to refund or not, it's a no brainer.

>>379101951
>Make a game that takes less than two hours to 100%
>Sell it for $20+
>Be surprised when people ask for a refund
Maybe these stupid fucks should at least make games with a little bit of content instead of pushing out worse-than-shovelware crap on steam.

>>379107232
Which is why I brought up the issue of misrepresentation. It's not the consumer's fault that a product was misrepresented. Sure, the fault lies on them for making the purchase, but their not at fault for being misled when considering the purchase.

>>379106502
>>379106661
why not just pirate?

>people actually care if shitty developers lose money.
Welcome to capitalism, bitches. Enjoy your stay.

>>379104564
>>379106263
>>379106547
>>379106629
Back then, game companies still wanted to sell the mainstream on the concept of a video game as a fun and interesting pastime. Nowadays, vidya is so ingrained that the thought of maintaining a healthy gaming ecosystem doesn't even exist. Things that would be on Newgrounds 20 years ago for free are being sold on phones. Vidya has gone from creative obscurity to efficient mainstream capitlism. Demos allow people to sample a wide variety of games and determine what they really like. Nowadays, the most popular 'games' are ones shown off by Let's Players (which are often better watched than played) or free-to-play cancer (usually shooters, with microtransactions). We take away free samples and easy access to quality, and we allow the ecosystem to die. Nobody knows what quality is anymore because it was choked out of existence.

>>379105245
Exactly. Demanding that their mistake and poor judgement be undone. Or even worse, demanding that they get to enjoy an entire game they've already completed for free.

>>379103390
>>379103479
>>379103680
Holy shit you faggots get triggered easily. I literally just mention Americans and you go on a /pol/ rant.

>>379107232
>watch the entire game on youtube
>devs start complaining about people not buying their games because it's being watched entirely on youtube instead
Let's face it, devs who are actually interested in making actual games aren't the ones bitching about this shit.

>>379104237
>TONS of refunds are happening because there's abusive retards with short attention spans and strange standards running around
>strange standards

I see what you're saying, but in the end you're a bit of an idiot. Let me tell you why.

When a consumer decides a product isn't worth the money he paid for it, he's right. Whatever thought process he went through to come to that decision is the correct one, because it's his money, and he decides how it gets spent, and why, and what it is worth to him.

Does he inherently have the right to a refund no matter what? No, not in every case (perhaps not even in most cases). But in a scenario involving the Steam store, where refunds are denied/approved based on things like the two hour limit, his reasons for desiring a refund can be whatever the fuck he wants it to be. What anyone else (and that includes the developers) thinks is completely irrelevant.

>>379101951
make them comply with yuropoor law and mute the developers

>>379107479
>Make a game that is fun to watch on YT
>Nobody buys it

>Make a game that is fun to play
>Isn't fun to wtach
>Nobody on Youtube or Twitch shills it for you in front of their fans

Really activates the almonds...

>>379107461
I don't like it either when scummy players do that but I like it even less when scummy devs think my right to refund should be taken away altogether.

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>>379107410
>why not just pirate?

>>379101951
>How would /v/ fix Steam refunds so devs stop complaining?

Ignore the devs who complain. Problem solved.

Raise the limit to 4 hours and 4 weeks.

>>379103347
>No Man Sky has 3.8 bajillion planets
>refund it after 500 hours because it is literally infinite

>>379102762
You started off so good and went straight to full retard. Never go full retard.

>>379107709
trying to forget that nms exists over here

Percentage? Based on what? Achievement? Total completion, including every fucking easter egg hidden in the tutorial zone only accessible by a combination of two powers that you can only get one of once per playthrough, making the easter egg unavailable unless you're playing on NG++ and happen to find it?

A game is not a film. You can't measure its completion in hours. You can't measure its completion in story progression. You can't measure it's completion at all, because a player may appreciate the gameplay enough that they come back to play it again and again for the rest of their lives, like me and Tetris.

>Make a five minute game
>Players play a minute and pass 20%
Hire me.

>>379107938
This. Any 'measurable' level of completion would be easy for developers to manipulate

>A New Beginning
Start the game

>Begin the Journey
Select 'New Game' from the menu

>Fall Fashion
Create Your Character

>A Quest Appears
Recieve your first orders from Mr. X

>World Champion
Beat the game

You got 80% of the achievements in the first half-hour. Way to go

>>379103894
>But because people aren't using in a "fair" way
Refunding something because I didn't get my money's worth is a fair way.

If I bought a $20 bluray movie that had good reviews and a back-of-the-box blurb that sounded good, then got home and it was just a 10 minute video, I'd want my money back because it didn't live up to the expectations set by literally every decent movie in existence.

>>379106136
You understood literally the opposite of what I meant: I agree with you; also there are short and long games, both can exist and should be bought if the price is fair, e.g. to their lenght. What I was implying is that the system is not perfect and the short ( in one way or another)and cheap (manny indies and not) games will be the ones that suffer the most feom this.

>>379106084
You are incredibly dense, try thinking about most indies characteriatics and you'll see how flawed this system is.

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>>379101951
Tell them that they can stop selling their games in EU/Australia and start their own distribution. We'll see how long they last.

In the end they will beg us to save them.

>>379108258
>80% in the first half-hour
>implying they wouldn't make one achievement for launching the game
>player launches game
>haven't even played it for a second yet
>can't refund it because it's 100% complete

>>379108613
>most indies characteriatics
Which indie games fall victim to this? It sounds like a whole swath of games that I'd rather just stop being made.

>>379101951
Devs should make better games.

>2 hours is too much because you can beat my shitty game in 2 hours or less, it should be percentage based!
>average game is around 20 hours to beat maybe
>2 hours is 10% of that
>10% of a 2 hour game is 12 minutes
>you should only get to play a game for 12 minutes to be able to tell if its shit and refund it

People here are trully retarded: the consumer never abuse the system neither there's a focus group of games that suffer from this; all is justified, only the bad ones get shit. Consumers= fair Saints, developers= jew devils.

>>379108805

I've literally spent longer trying to trouble shoot a game before. I'd be livid if I couldn't get a refund because steam play time was racking up while the game wasn't actually working and I was trying to get it to launch properly.

Can you theoretically buy game play for an hour and a half refund then buy the same game rinse repeat till you beat?

>>379108881
>it's retarded to work in your self-interest

Really makes you think.

>>379108881
>Everything must be black and white, it's the only way the world works
I support the refund system and I think you're being fucking stupid on purpose

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>>379103254
Actually Americans have no consumer rights to give up. It's like a weird corporate cult over there where people are grateful to companies for taking their money. It's bizarre.

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>>379109056
Your hours aren't reset, retard

Also why did the cuck mod delete OPs image?

>>379109056

No, Steam has a limit on how many times you can refund in a period of time so it can't be abused. Also you might as well just pirate it at that point.

>>379109056
How will you retrieve your save? You probably have to uninstall a refunded game, and that includes deleting the save

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>>379109189

Gee, I dunno.

>>379109224

Ever heard of backups, anon?

>>379104237
>Guess what fucknut! If you order and eat dish at a restaurant but find the portion to be lacking, you aren't entitled to a refund.

If you eat a couple of bites of the food (2 hours of gameplay) and don't like it, you get told to fuck off when asking for a refund? Fuck off retard.

>>379109729
>If you eat a couple of bites of the food (2 hours of gameplay) and don't like it, you get told to fuck off when asking for a refund?
You don't know how to read. Once you have eaten the entire meal beating a short game you lose your right to a refund.

>>379109918
But that's wrong as discussed in this chain
>>379106553

>>379101951
Leave it as is will force devs to make better games.