Video games will never be art Accept this truth and move on

They already are. ;^)

Video games contain art though.

Would you say a pie that contains shit is not a shit pie?

They aren't and it's fine as it is. We don't want artistic bullshit, we don't want politics in games, we don't want conceptual bullshit, we want good games

>>378848813
art is for expressing emotions and feelings
Vidya is just entertainment

>>378849179
>we don't want politics in games
why not?

>>378848813
they were during certain period now they are not even fun or have entertaining value

Only if you accept that them not being art doesn't make them bad.
But of course you won't, that's all this thread is about, insulting videogames for easy (You)s.

>>378849341
Because whenever a side is convinced they are guided by absolute truth and fighting for the greater good, then it becomes propaganda.
Young people playing video games should not be subject to it

>>378848813
Your mother will never die in your sleep tonight

Accept this truth and sage op

>>378849179
I wouldn't mind art games. I think the interactivity opens up an immense amount of possibilities. But video games hasn't even gotten out of its sensationalist "train arrives" or "man shoots gun at bottle" era of the absolutely earliest 20th century film.

>>378849690
>I wouldn't mind art games
what the fuck is that?

>>378848813
True.
Now check my 6.

>>378848870
>>378849008
This, games are art. And like all art it's been overrun by sjws who think everything should be political and less about fun gameplay.

I guess we """win"""

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>>378848813

Good. Tell that to the nu-males and the artsy trash that have infected the industry so we can have good games again.

You know, instead of games that are trying to be "art" or cinematic or whatever.

>This thread again
>it's going to get 400+ replies

>>378849516
It's okay when it's propaganda for democracy and free speech though

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>>378848813
>Video games will never be art
*blocks your path*

>>378849761
Games that functions as art primarily. It will probably never exist because everyone involved in games are either manbabies, nu-males, SJWs or CUHRAZY nips.

too bad faggot games are art since 2001

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>>378848813
I never cared either way.

>>378848813
Yeah okay

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>>378849959

>>378848813
Is mayonaise an art?
[Patrickatbandpracticeraisinghandtoasksquidwardaquestion.txt]

I only care about this because its fun to argue about online. Otherwise it doesn't affect anything at all.

>>378848813
Play Everything, then come back and saying games ain't art

unless you're michelangelo and you just permanantly ruined your back from painting the ceiling of a cathedral, you're no fucking artist, you autistic nigger faggot cock sucker cuck bitch beta faggot cuck newfag bitch faggot.

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I disagree and especially don't respect this wrong opinion but I accept your stubbornness and ignorance on the matter

>>378849957
If democracy and free speech are great then they can stand on their own merit. A just cause does not need lies and propaganda to support it.

>>378849957
No propaganda at all should be featured, be it SJW trash or alt right retards.

>>378849969
>Games that functions as art primarily
Like what? A game where you can paint shit and then show it to some people? Guess what, it's called real life and it's shit

>release patches
>art

People tried to crucify George Lucas for "patching" Star Wars. Imagine if Michelangelo tried to "patch" David.

If video games become accepted as art by the mainstream devs will get lazy and cite this as a reason not to patch. Many devs are already too lazy to finish their games, imagine how much worse than could get.

Use your fucking heads. Video games are software, economically they are successful for the same reasons software is successful. Games that attempt to be art tend to be niche titles at best, Gone Home at worst.

Gaming does nothing but lose from becoming art. Use your fucking heads faggots.

>>378850131
You do realize that there are numerous amounts of covert operations to both undermine and assist democracy and free speech? From many sides of a multi-faceted conglomerate web of people and organizations. They do stand on their own, as concepts. To keep them is to defend them, shill piece of trash.

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>>378848813
>>378850235

Pretty much this. I would add that video games are not inherently art, but art is not defined by any specific measure.

Video games are not art, but a video game can be a work of art. It's that people keep trying to assign a label as to what qualifies as "art" when art doesn't give a shit about being "art."

>>378850126

>shitty ruins
>art

what a faggot lmao

>>378848813

>shitty man children pastime
>art

Yeah you're right.

>>378850358
And before you tip your fedora at "covert" i'm just saying that the exact goals and intentions of said operations are not necessarily know to the general public, even if they are subject to the propaganda.
Also,
>>378850131
We're you born a pussy or are you paid to propogate that way?

>>378850158
You're retarded.

Anyway, art usually tries to express or make you feel something beyond just being entertained, so a game like that would be an art game. You will get it when or if it ever comes. There still aren't any genuine artists in the caliber of say Beethoven or Bergman in games.

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/v/, listen to me.
Stop trying to talk about things you know nothing about, you don't know what art even is.

Stop trying to convince others and yourself that art is some mystical umblemished unicorn.

Stop trying to pass as seasoned art critics when you can't even understand the difference between a El Greco and a Parmigianino.

Stop trying to categorize things when you don't even know how the categories you're using work.

>>378849860
>tfw fun gameplay is completely absent from modern art thanks to SJWs

>>378850235
Not all artforms are the same, music evolves and changes constantly through different performances for example. That quirk of video games would have to be accepted as well if they're ever considered art.

>>378850646
Jesus Christ you're an actual retard.
There has always been art in games, be it design, graphics, music, sound design and so and so.
"Art game" has no meaning and you're completely retarded for not understanding that video games are the combined works of many different people, some of them are artists, some of them are technicians, but in the end it's a commerical product that's meant to make money. This is opposed to the concept of art in many ways.

What you want is a game with quality art, not a "art game" you retard

Paintings will never be art.
Prove me wrong.

>>378850893
>This is opposed to the concept of art in many ways.
Sure, Michelangelo did the Sistine Chapel for free and Orson Wells did movies for charity.

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>>378848813

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>>378848813
I am cool with that, it's the artfags that make it a big deal.

Masturbation will never be sex, but I still can enjoy it.

>>378849008
>it's a food analogy

>>378850687
But that's how this board functions. When I'm an anonymous, if I have no big fat ego, what do I have?

>>378851160
>can argue that a game is bad because its artistic and you dont understand
>can argue that a game requires skill and that you arent good enough at it
press the e-sports one, at least that way people cant defend shit games

>>378850687
Educate us then le murderous black metal man

>>378849341
because then people who agree with the politics of the game will give it a pass if the gameplay is shitty or mediocre, the same way dogshit like TLOU got outstanding ratings despite have terribly generic, derivative gameply because "mature gamers" are absolutely obsessed with proper storytelling in games because they are insecure faggots

>>378850893
You're a small-minded pleb for not realising what it is I'm trying to say. I'm well aware of the points you're making. It's just that I've got this hypothesis that video games as a medium still hasn't even gotten out of its era when it's still just a sensationalist medium. You'll make a fool out of me today but just wait. Maybe in twenty or thirty years time we'll have the Citizen Kane of gaming. Learn your history. I bet when the French saw "train arrives at station" around the start of the 19th century no one even had the concept yet that the medium could be used to produce art.

>>378851160
Sport since that encourages high standards for gameplay depth and balance.

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>>378849179
Mock this guy all you want but he sees it.
The more you people demand games to be treated as art, the more it will be infested with political ideology.

>>378851160
Well, I don't think sports are art, so, yeah.

>>378851451
>the citizen kane of gaming
It already happened, it's called Doom

>>378851618
We both know that ain't right.

>>378850687
Fuck it, roll.

>>378851451
>citizen kane of gaming
It already exists, it's called the Last of Us

>>378848813
wwho gives a shit

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>>378851723
Welp, see you folks tomorrow.

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>video games will never be ar

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>>378851818
Based

>>378848813
>Worshipping the label of "A R T"

>>378851689
It's pretty spot on. What did Citizen Kane do for movies that Doom didn't do for games? Game's a timeless, groundbreaking masterpiece.

>>378848813
>I dont understand what art is the post
Let me lay this out for you cunt, art is not a status to be gained because some asshole says so. Post modernism pretty much defined art as human expression, al l human expression.

So the question isnt if its art but rather if its good art which is highly subjective to the medium it lies in. The only people who go around using art as a form of status are the sorts of people in gallery culture who think minimalism and the daa daa movement are high brow.

Fuck its not even like it would take two seconds to look up interactive art or realize that you can still have a compositional scene even with player input.

Tldr: go kill yerself.

>>378851451
>Maybe in twenty or thirty years time we'll have the Citizen Kane of gaming
No. Because video games aren't the result of one person's vision, unlike movies, painting, music and so and so.
I'm gonna tell you the best scenario possible within 30 years : people will realize that art stopped being art ever since we started to consider everything to be art, which goes back to the early 20th century, 1917 being to me the stepstone since it's the year the MOMA accepted to feature Duchamp's urinal as art.
It's simple : everything is art, therefore nothing is art. Everything can't be a single thing.

Now if you want to have games with better narration, story, graphics, design or whatever then open your eyes because it has been done for the last 20 years

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>>378848813
I don't want video games to be considered art.. Once Vidya is considered an artistic medium, more people are gonna try to produce shitty art """"""games"""""".

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>>378851919
>unlike movies, painting, music and so and so.
The ignorance in this thread is palpable

>>378852119
But I'm right you idiot

>>378851907
>what is cavestory

>>378852218
Please, tell me how Mozart's Figaro is the product of one person's vision.
Or Michelangelo's Saint Matthew.
Or Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet.

>>378850646
fuck off hipster nu-male

Being pretentious to think that anything is "art" is quite autistic tbqh

>>378848813
Games aren't art and I don't consider the people who make them to be artists unless they make their bread outside of the medium (games). Buuuuut I'm definitely an elitist, Can't appreciate people who don't adhere to the thousand year standards.

>>378848813
>>>378851451

>No. Because video games aren't the result of one person's vision, unlike movies, painting, music and so and so.

Not an argument.

>I'm gonna tell you the best scenario possible within 30 years : people will realize that art stopped being art ever since we started to consider everything to be art, which goes back to the early 20th century, 1917 being to me the stepstone since it's the year the MOMA accepted to feature Duchamp's urinal as art.

Will not happen because most people don't even care about art.

>Now if you want to have games with better narration, story, graphics, design or whatever then open your eyes because it has been done for the last 20 years

I don't. I want a video game experience that's equally interesting as watching for example The Seventh Seal or reading Dostoevsky. I don't know what that would be in reality because I'm not that artist. Something that touches the soul.

>painting is art
>music is art
>literature is art
>film is art

>somehow if you combine all this it stops being art

>>378852928
Meant for >>378851919

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>>378849959
Why can't he just make a berserk game already?

>>378850646
>art usually tries to express or make you feel something beyond just being entertained
But there are plenty of games that do that. The idea that games these days only have value as entertainment is fucking ridiculous.

Any medium can be art.

Why is this even a debate?

>>378852332
Because they are the only designers of the final artwork?

>>378852928
>Not an argument.
Yes it is

And for the rest of your post, video games aren't a good medium, that is all. If you expect some video game Victor Hugo, Mozart or Da Vinci then let me tell you, you'll be waiting for a long fucking time.

>>378848813
Games can easily be art. Being "art" isn't hard in the first place.
The real question is what makes a game "good art", because pretty visuals alone definitely don't.

>>378853251
If all medium are arts, then how is art a defining trait we should care about since it's something that's present in all medium no matter what?

>>378849008
design its not art

>>378853386
>Because they are the only designers of the final artwork?
Wrong in all cases.
See me after class, son.

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>>378851919
>No. Because video games aren't the result of one person's vision, unlike movies
>unlike movies
Auteur theory is applicable to game directors as well, every game by Kojima has clear and distinctive similarities.

>>378853492
I said any medium CAN be art. Not that all things made with those mediums are automatically art.

>>378853386
I think it's as a fantastic medium as any, we just don't know it yet.

>you'll be waiting for a long fucking time
That's what I've been saying all along.

>>378853386
>Victor Hugo, Mozart or Da Vinci
What kind of fucking retard does? What makes music, film or paintings art doesn't make games art. The defining characteristic of games is that they are an interactive medium. A game's artistic value cannot be measured by the same aspects as the other mediums, because interaction between the game's systems and the player is what leads to artistic expression, not any individual aspect of the game.

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>>378848813
Who gives a shit about art? Especially when some retard bought a literal rock for millions and claimed it was "artistic".

>>378853545
Great argument as always

>>378853568
>Auteur theory is applicable to game directors as well, every game by Kojima has clear and distinctive similarities.
No. Unless Kojima makes every single assets by himself.
And indeed, that is less true for movies as it is for painting or sculpting, it still remains true because what the spectator get to see is what the director wants him to see, regardless of who handles the camera or who's the photography director

Killer check this 7 is a good example of games being art.

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>>378853802
>No. Unless Kojima makes every single asset by himself
>2001 is not Kubrick's vision because he didn't personally do the miniatures
>complains about other people's arguments

>>378853802
>Great argument as always
Not my fault if you don't know shit about music, painting AND theatre, anon.
If you were my student you'd get your test burned in front of the class for saying such bullshit.
Educate yourself and then we can talk, I picked those three examples because they're literally textbook examples, if you're so ignorant that you couldn't even recognize them I have little to say to you, you don't know what art is, you don't know how artists worked and work, it's pointless to talk with someone who doesn't even know the very basics, words to the wind.

>>378853659
>we just don't know it yet.
You were talking about the arrival of the train in la ciotat from the Lumiere brothers earlier. It dates from 1895. 10 years after that there were already movies (which is filmed theater) and animated drawings. It didn't take long.

>>378853726
What other art is interactive?

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>>378853947

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>>378853947

>>378854139
Sure, I get what you're saying. Was just trying to make a point.

Thing is with the current cultural climate I'm just being pessimistic about how long it will take.

>>378854006
Kubrick knew what he wanted to film therefore he gotr scenery and miniatures he wanted. A game director cannot do that because the whole thing needs to be built from scratch.

>>378854079
I'm not in 5th grade, not a chance you could be my teacher, faggot.
Still you haven't brought any argument, feel free to stay mad because you disagree with someone but can't argue because of your retardation.

>>378851160
It can apply to individual games and doesn't have to apply to every single entry within this media form.

I won't argue with you. Catch-22 can be art while 50 shades of grey is just smut. Yet they are both books.

>>378854443
>A game director cannot do that because the whole thing needs to be built from scratch.
This is an absolutely retarded argument. How, in practice, is building what the director needs from scratch any different from the director getting exactly needs from outside sources? Either way, the director gets what fits his artistic vision.

>>378854371
My point is simply that arguing about something being art or not is pointless. There is art in games as a matter of fact. Now for art in games to be good, we would need some artists that are worth something which is rare nowadays, especially in the video game industry.

>>378854443
>Kubrick knew what he wanted to film
>Stanley “I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want.” Kubrick knew what he wanted to film
>Stanley “A film is - or should be - more like music than like fiction. It should be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what's behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes later." Kubrick knew what he wanted to film
Shut the fuck up kid

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>>378854443
>Kubrick knew what he wanted to film therefore he gotr scenery and miniatures he wanted. A game director cannot do that because the whole thing needs to be built from scratch.
Every piece of art goes through some changes during the creation process. American Beauty was originally going to be a dark comedy. What's your point?

>>378854443
>I'm not in 5th grade
Yeah, considering your average post and argument I'd say you're still in 2nd grade, you got a long road ahead of you.
>Still you haven't brought any argument
Can't bring any argument when you bring none to your inane reasoning, can't argue what's not there sonny.

But sure, tell me how an Mozart's Le Nozze di Figaro is the product of one person when he only wrote the music, I won't ask you about the other two because they're way out of your league, I'm feeling generous today.

>>378854780
Simply because a game director, by himself, cannot overlook every asset that's going to make it into the game. When a movie director sees what's in the camera field he does.

>>378854790
And? Knowing what you don't want is halfway through knowing what you want. As always, you seem unable to form an argument by yourself which is quite sad

Fuck off, Nayuta

>>378854923

He's probably in grade 3

>>378855035
>Simply because a game director, by himself, cannot overlook every asset that's going to make it into the game.
Says who?

>>378855035
>cannot overlook every asset that's going to make it into the game
Except that's a blatant fucking lie. Not every damn game is a massive mess of tens of thousands of assets.

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>>378855035
He has to be baiting at this point.

>>378855035
>Simply because a game director, by himself, cannot overlook every asset that's going to make it into the game.
[citation needed]

>>378854873
>American Beauty was originally going to be a dark comedy
It's not?

>>378854923
>But sure, tell me how an Mozart's Le Nozze di Figaro is the product of one person when he only wrote the music

Sure, it's simple. Mozart's artwork is the music, that's all. The lyrics are from an italian writer/composer and the original drama was Beaumarchais' work.
I'm glad to educate you

>>378854784
So we're in agreement. Just got different definitions of things.

>>378855035
>A game director cannot overlook every asset that's going to make it into the game
Then how does Kojima does it?
>knowing what you don't want is halfway through knowing what you want
You're right, I don't want my craft to be a piece of shit, how helpful and not vague at all.
Fucking idiot.

>>378855456
So if a director or lead designer for a game has a vision and oversees it's creation to follow that vision, the game would be art.

>>378855456
>Sure, it's simple. Mozart's artwork is the music, that's all.
So an opera with music, stage acting and writing is all about the music for you?
Music magically exists outside of the rest of the thing when Mozart and DaPonte where literally the first couple of Opera composers who explicitly said that music and writing must coexist?
You do know that's the whole reason why Mozart got so famous and revolutionized Opera, do you?
That's exactly because the Opera ISN'T the product of one person.

>>378855201
>>378855245
>>378855248
>>378855260
>>378855727
On top on being uneducated faggots, you're also completely unaware of how game designing works. Of course I'm on /v/

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>>378855456
>only music matters in a gesamtkunstwerk like opera
This is pure distilled retardation, it's intoxicating.
>>378855843
>vague nondescript bait post
you played your hand too early m8

>>378855817
Opera isn't an artwork.

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But these days anything can be art. Just because they're interactive doesn't mean it can be excluded. Games don't even have to sacrifice anything from gameplay/story/music part to be art, and they don't even have to be muh art meme games like Gone Homo, Journey or any somewhat abtract walking simulators.

Unless "art" can be defined in some proper way that excludes vidya, which isn't really possible, they can be art, even the old, ugly games as well. Art doesn't even have to be made on purpose.
Movies apparently can be art, as can music and other visual mediums and hell, even food can be art. Besides, anyone who tries to argue that they aren't and can't be is just a dumb memelord and never have any arguments outside of some critic said so once, not to mention it's a huge red flag of retarded people, like who cares if it's art or not, it's just a defense for the butthurt hipsters

>created to envoke emotion by the audience

yep, it's art

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>>378855843
There are no set rules for game design.

Maybe on most large corporate scale projects, the director/designer would be too stretched for time to do much more then oversee development (which is something that applies to all mediums) but on small indie projects, that guy is a big part of the team and sometimes the only one making the game.

I wonder where you'd place Miasmata. A game made by two brothers from scratch. The game engine, AI, assets, everything.

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The level of interactivity came aid the art, I found. Even the dreaded 'walking simulators' mean you're exploring a world at every angle at your own pace, rather than passively watching it be shown to you.

Kojima does a lot of good examples. Like the whole of MGS3 was working up to the moment you kill the Boss and the player, not just Snake, has to pull the trigger to do it.

YEAH? AND SO FUCKING WHAT? I PLAY GAMES TO HAVE FUN AND I DON'T GIVE A FUCK IF SOMEONE SAYS OR DOESN'T SAY THEY ARE ART. I GO NOW PLAY ULTIMA UNDERWORLD 2 AND HAVE FUN. CHECK THIS 7.

>>378848813
Accepted. Don't care. They're entertainment. Same as the majority of movies, songs, and books these days. Puerile, base entertainment.

'Art' is fake. For most of history, all it was good for was immortalising people and events in carvings, paintings and sculptures. Then photography made it obsolete and painters made 'art' up to keep making money.

>>378849198
>people suddenly become devoid of emotions and past experiences when writing or designing for games

Um...that's not how it works, sweetie. Entertainment as an end is separate from its means. People watch movies, look at art, or read books for ***entertainment*** but relate to and are moved by to their characters, visuals, and themes.

>>378860712
>Then photography made it obsolete

Lol.