Is he right?

>>378706308
No he's completely retarded

>bugs

>>378706308
>fighting games don't have exploits

Aren't things like option select kinda the same thing anyway.

Also, it doesn't matter. Tribes skiing was a glitch in the original game which they built a whole series around

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>>378706308

>>378706465
Real fighting games aren't built around their exploits like Melee is.

>>378706308
Weren't combos in SF2 considered a bug too? Seems like this dude is being a dick because people like a game he doesn't.

>>378706308
>"these things don't count because I declared it so!"
no he is retarded.

>>378706563
What makes a fighting game "real"? How many blacks play it?

>>378706563
Comboing in street fighter was an exploit

>>378706563
>no true Scotsman fallacy

>>378706563
If it's built around it, it's not an exploit it's a mechanic

>>378706308
>Officially sanctioned fighting game
Anyone who would argue semantics deserves to be ignored. Fuck anything he says

>>378706563
Define "real fighting game" and "exploits" because the techniques used in Melee are from mechanics functioning entirely as intended by the devs.

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>>378706308

>>378706573
This. A great many games have players behave in ways the developers never intended, and then they have to decide whether to roll with how the playerbase is playing it, or change the game to force the player in the direction they want.

Fighting games chose to go with what the players wanted. "Comboing" was never intended. Ironically, Smash is probably closer to the original vision of a fighting game than modern fighters are.

None of this fucking matters though. Let people play what they want to play. I take major issue with the Smash community's idea of what makes a game fun, and I think their self imposed rules kill the spirit of Smash, but I don't see a need to go around convincing people of this. Just go play some god damn video games.

>>378706308
Well it's a fighting game, in the same sense that fuckin Power Stone is or something.

Whatever. Who cares. I don't care. This would be like C&Cfags getting mad at ASSFAGGOTS for being grouped with RTS games. You have better things to do.

>>378707376

what a flip floppier. Probably changed his stance 4 times by bow.

Whether Smash can be considered a fighting game doesn't matter in the fucking slightest. But wave-dashing isn't a bug.

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Well, let's think of it this way.

Does smash NEED to be considered a fighting game?

>>378707831
People are going to play it either way.

if it was made by capcom with capcom characters the debate over whether its a fighting game would have never existed

>>378708016
I don't doubt for a second that you actually believe that.

>>378708134
because its true. I've met more people in the FGC willing to say Power Stone is a fighting game than smash.

explain how its not

Guys Starcraft isn't a real RTS, you can glitch through the minerals.

>>378706563
Tell that to Street Fighter II

>>378706548
Sakurai doesn't consider it a fighting game though and I think he'd know more about his game than Wikipedia.

>>378706563
So much of SF2's meta is based on exploits

>>378706308
L-cancelling, wave-dashing, etc are all intended features.
Also exploits are not bugs.

>>378706621
Why is this a meme when Asians are clearly superior to niggers in the FGC?

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>>378706308
allow me to sperg for a moment here

I thought about this specific issue for a considerable time and I came to the following conclusion. Smash Bros. is definitely a fighting game, but that fact is controversial because of how very different it is from any fighting game before it. If we take a look back at the history of the contemporary fighting game genre, it arguably starts with Street Fighter 2. All tournament-league fighting games since then, 2D or 3D, copy the fundamentals of SF2 while adding their own tweaks. Those fundamentals being spacing and combos. So you can understand specifically what I mean by spacing and combos, let me briefly define my terms. What I mean by spacing is that the stage the fight occurs on offers a limited amount of space for players to move in, and a large part of the meta is managing that space as options become limited the closer your back is to the "edge" of the stage. Combos are in reference to the specific phenomenon of games that allow you to stun your opponent with particular attacks long enough to be immediately followed with another attack.

In Smash, both of these conventions seem purposefully ignored. Spacing is a totally different meta, as the goal is to knock the opponent away, which can easily give your opponent the opportunity to escape subsequent attacks. There aren't screen "edges" in the normal sense, and verticality as well as maneuverability in the style of platforming matter significantly more than a traditional fighting game. Combos are also approached differently considering that, as was mentioned, most strikes put distance between you and the enemy. The game then becomes more about juggling, both in attacks, and in the way you control space (as opponents have many more options of approach/escape than in traditional fighting games). Add items and stage hazards to the mix and you set it even further apart from its contemporaries.

>>378706308
Fzero is not a realy fighting game becaue it doesnt have realistic cars on it

>>378708509
Not that I disagree with you but I don't think creators' opinions on what genre something is hold a lot of weight. By that logic we would have to count Gone Home as a video game if the creator considers it to be one.

The fact that some people require their controller to purposely malfunction in order to pull off certain actions in melee really says a lot about what a joke it is

Melee is better than fighting games

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>>378706308
Why do you care what the game is "called," why don't you just play the video game and have fun?

Oh yeah because you're fucking acoustic.

>>378706308

I've never seen another "fighting game" have a match end with a FIVE MINUTE timer scam with a character that's literally impossible to catch, so yeah, I don't think Smash is a fighting game.

Combat is basically optional.

desu exploits and bugs that get picked up on competitive play are typically not game breaking or unfair, so you may as well just think of them as established mechanics that are essential to learn and perform, rather than think of them as bugs like it's objectively a bad thing

>>378708894
Why are you being mean online. Be nice online.

>>378706308
>people still play this outdated party game

>>378706308
Friendly reminder that combos in SF2 were a bug/exploit

>>378708509
Genre is defined by mechanics.

Not
>balance
>perceived context of play ("party" is not a genre')
>creators words


Genre is defined by one thing. Mechanics. Smash shares a plethora of mechanics with fighting games.

>Spacing
>footsies
>okies
>Rock-paper-scissors attack system of block, grab, attack
>priority
>normals
>specials
>ring outs
>combos
>resets
>high low (yes it does. You dont know enough about the game)
>throw loops
>tick setups
>safe pressure
>mixup
>mindgames
>reads
>knockdowns
>roll techs


Sakurai is the same man who called Smash Nintendos take on a fighting game, then later says its more like a sports game. Who cares what the fuck he says.

>>378708725
Because Quantum Black Weeb Theory

>>378709138
You should be nice to people not rude.

>>378709030
>you're fucking acoustic
>tfw not electric

>>378709286
>boogie woogie woogie

>>378708673
L canceling is an intended feature, wavedashing is a glitch that wasn't removed because a) it would have required a complete overhaul of the physics engine, and b) they didn't think players would exploit it.

If smash were a fighting game, people who play smash would be able to play fighting games. They cannot because smash and fighting games are not the same genre.

>>378709609
>a) it would have required a complete overhaul of the physics engine, and b) they didn't think players would exploit it.
Source?

>>378709628
>you can't go straight from Mario Kart to Gran Turismo so Mario Kart isn't a racing game

>>378706308
Smash and all its sequels are fighting games. The truth is sometimes difficult to deal with.

>>378709834
Don't they classify that as like, an arcade karting game or something? The racing game community has their own little "Fuck off with your children's games, Nintendo fans" stigmas.

>>378709834
The fuck? But that's wrong. The principles of all racing games are the same. Someone who's really good in mario kart will most likely be good in gt.

>>378709063
Who does timed in smash unless they're just fucking around?

>>378709219
delete this

Exploits are what makes games fun though.

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Smash is a party game that autists take too seriously

>>378708565

If SF2 was like Melee you would need a specially notched arcade stick to be able to jump.

>>378710131
No. GT (and to a lesser extent Forza) attempt to model actual physics to cars. Slamming down the accelerator will cause the car to spin out of a corner/ you have to consider weight shift/ automatic vs manual transmission with clutch controls for those with wheel set ups/etc.

Mario kart--while fun--has limited real world racing techniques. Even the later series drifts are terribly inaccurate.

A mario kart player with all assists on might be okay at GT in a FWD against novice AI but will smoke themselves in a power RWD manual transmission light weight car.

>>378707538
>in the same sense that fuckin Power Stone is or something
This discussion could've ended here. I'd like to add the DBZ Tenkaichi series too, but that's a LITTLE bit more closer to traditional fighters than Power Stone and Smash.

FGC can be a bit too autistic sometimes. Something similar happens with the driving/racing game community. With people always arguing what game is arcade racer, or what game is a driving simulator.

>>378706308
>hardware bugs
The Fuck is she talking about?

>>378707831
Not really, but it causes plenty of butthurt on people and that's all it matters to me.

>>378710270

I was referencing Hungrybox's win at Dreamhack austin where he spent six to five minutes as puff stalling for time against ChuDat's IC.

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>>378706308
God I love these threads.

Counter point: saying "Melee + Bugs is a fighting game" debunks his statement.