Where did it go wrong?

>>378625701
It was a piece of shit. That's where it went wrong.

Terrible physics

>fucks up the story
>shitty cel shader
>horrendous physics
>music sounds like a bunch of obese Nyan Cats and completely fucks up how good the three acts of Splash Hill could be

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>>378625701
Terrible physics and easy difficulty. Game throws lives at you in the casino level.

Episode 2 was an improvement but the reputation was already damaged beyond repair.

>>378625701
i didnt play episode 1 but episode 2 was pretty good besides the under water part where the animals freeze and block the way

where the FUCK is episode 3?

first mistake was making a sonic the hedgehog game

>>378625701
My friend is a die hard sonic fan and I asked how come he never talks about this one.

He shown me it and I can honestly see why it's crap. Sonic's animations are stilted, the art style is blurred as shit, homing attacks out the ass instead of bouncing on enemies.

It's honestly better than CD. Which, mind you, says absolutely nothing, but still.

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>>378628107

I liked Episode 2

>>378629027
CD has better physics, but it doesn't matter considering it has arguably the worst designed levels of any commercial 2D platformer.

>>378625701
Ssonic Team left all the production of fuckin SONIC 4 to fucking DiMPS

The title. Had it been kept Sonic DL or some other name, it'd have been forgotten and almost no one would ever talk about it.SEGA wanted to cash in on the retro revival thing so they slapped the name Sonic 4 onto it despite not having anything to do with the classic series proper to gain some attention and sucker some people into buying it.

Had it not been called that, Sonic Mania might've (deservingly) had the name instead as well.

>>378625701
Four?

>>378629080

Yeah me too, it was an improvement on every levels.

but like the other said, sonic 4's reputation was already damaged beyond repair by episode 1.

Music was bleh,
pre render 3d assets were bleh
zones were uninspired
And imo, modern sonic just didn't meshed very well with classic gameplay.

>>378625701
Literally nothing went right with this piece of shit. Thank God Mania is a thing though.

>>378626143
In the trash where it belongs.

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>>378625701
>Try to make a new installment in the "classic" Sonic series
>Use modern Sonic, which makes even less sense when the story says this is after Sonic & Knuckles
>add homing attack
>fail to understand classic Sonic physics, and fuck up so bad that Sonic can stand on walls
>try to replicate the Genesis soundfont but end up with the most ear-grating synths ever
>graphics and artstyle look like plastic vomit
I'll take "Everything" for 600, Alex.
Sonic Mania is everything this was trying to be.

The devs discovered Chris-chan and figured he was the target audience.

>>378632331
>modern sonic just didn't meshed very well with classic gameplay
Which Sonic 4 did not have to begin with.

but i thought that mania is a fangame that sega made official? why is everyone praising for sonics comeback when this just proves that sega can not make a good sonic game?

>>378634140
>mania is a fangame that sega made official
Wrong.

>>378634140
What are you saying? People can't praise it because it wasn't made entirely by Sega? People aren't praising Sega for it, they're praising the game for being what people actually want.

>>378634257
oh?
>>378634259
people are praising sega, that is exactly what is happening.

They took a shitty mobile game and fooled everyone into thinking the series was #backtoourroots.
No personality of its own, shitty music, shit physics, rehashed everything.

LOOK AT MY LONG LEGS AND GREEN EYES

>>378634140
nice b8
people are praising SEGA for empowering talented creators to work on Sonic Mania and having balls to actually fund and publish it.

Poor Sonic, let the old pal rest in peace.

>>378629638
I bet they're kicking themselves for not being able to call Mania 4 instead.

>>378634624
while the game look good it felt like a cheap transparent move to win over guys like you. sega is sega they are not going to change.

>>378634058

Am meant as a 2d platformer. but I remembered that Sonic advances weren't bad games.

So yeah, it's really the overall looks that bothers me

>>378625774
fpbp

>>378634823
They're employing talented developers with passion rather than workmanlike hacks. Regardless if this is an isolated instance, it's Sega being better about Sonic than they have been.

>>378625701
How about making a shitty iPhone game and then at the last minute slapping the "Sonic 4" title on it and porting it to consoles?

I still remember seeing that first trailer and when I saw Modern Sonic I was so disappointed.
I still remember
>the Minecart leaks
>the Ken Balough interviews where he kept saying "Sonic the Hedgehog 4 as you imagined it" or "The game you've been waiting for for 16 years"
>Iizuka saying in Nintendo Power "No LPB floaty physics. Classic Gameplay" and then saying they were adding new and exciting features such as "ceiling running"

Then Sega delayed it to damage control further
I still remember the game wasn't even gonna have a running animation nor was the title screen animated at all before fans complained

What an utter, utter trainwreck

>>378629131
Yeah no
Sonic 4 has way worse level design than CD
That card-road bullshit in Casino Street where you have to run or you'll fall into a fucking bottomless put is worse than anything in CD

>>378635929
It was "As you truly imagined it "

>>378629638
>Sonic Mania might've (deservingly) had the name instead as well.
Sonic Mania looks good but it doesn't deserve the Sonic 4 title either since it reuses zones and has outdated graphics. Not to mention it just has way too many references to past games as a nod to them...especially all the scrapped sprites and stuff being reused

>>378633905
Don't forget
>Eggman is reusing old badniks because he ran out of budget
>Sonic 4 official site kept claiming that Sonic's story and Knuckles' story in 3&K happened at the same time even though it make no goddamn sense

>>378634823
Are you fucking retarded?
Sega will do anything that gets them money
Sega has changed a lot over the years.

>>378636172
>outdated graphics
And post disregarded.

>>378625701
Was it Episode One were they put air dash on double clicking the jump button ? like wtf ?

>>378635534
Advance 1 was good
2 and 3 were bad

>>378636172
>outdated
What?

Episode 2 was actually fun, and dicking around with co-op online to see all the wierd shit you could do when tryinh to exploit team moves was fun too.

>>378636382
They ARE outdated
They look like 32x sprites

Sonic 4 should have Cuphead-tier 2D graphics not low res sprites which look terrible on new tv's

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who /pre-orderedManiaCEtoscalp/ here?

>>378636545
>Cuphead-tier 2D graphics
And that's why Cuphead is MIA

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>bad level design
>bad graphics
>bad story
>bad gimmicks
>bad special stages
>episodic release????
>shit music
>no original concepts
>homing attack for some reason
>physics

>>378636406
It was both.

>>378625701
Autism game with autism fans

>>378636448

I stopped at advance 2 so I wouldn't know for 3.
It wasn't sonic 4 bad tho

>>378636543
>Episode 2 was actually fun
I hate this meme
This is what fanboys used to say in 2012 to damage control Sega
>"b-b-but atleast episode 2 is better..."
Fuck off
Episode 2 was even worse than 1 with that awful forced party gimmick in it. And the retarded story of trying to trying Sonic CD into it was just awful

>>378625701
Outsorcing a game to china.
making a mobile game.
pretend its a main seque.l
then port it to pc.
then look at it and just see its just an uninspired clone of Sonic 1.

>>378634823
>Funding good video games and giving them the dev time they need to be good is a "cheap, transparent move."

I wish more publishers were cheap and transparent, then.

>>378636630
>episodic release????
what about sonic & knuckles, anon? sonic 3 was originally going to be one standalone game but eventually didn't due to time and other things.

>>378636613
Cuphead's team is 15-20 people
Sonic Team/Sega is way larger than that

I'd accept even properly done 2.5D graphics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxXycBv3Rlk

>>378634823
>giving fans exactly what they wanted for years
>cheap transparent move
Sonic 4 apologists everyone.

>>378636918
>Sonic Team/Sega is way larger than that
They also can't develop a Classic Sonic game worth a shit, which is exactly why they hired the Mania team to do the job properly.

>>378636885
Episodic basically means "low budget"
Sonic 3K wasn't low budget. Sonic 4 was

>>378637070
Gee it's not like Sonic Team can provide Mania team with more staff...it's not like Mania Team and Sonic Team can work together right?

>>378636918
>Sonic Team/Sega is way larger than that
PagodaWest and HeadCannon are less than 10 people each, and they're developing the game.

Game development doesn't work the way you seem to think it does. This game exists because Taxman and Stealth pitched a mid budget indie game to Sega with a small team. Sega didn't just synthesize the idea of Mania out of the aether and then decide to cheap out on it. If anything Sega's doubled down since the positive reaction, pushing the game back over half a year for polish and commissioning fucking high quality 2D animations for it.

Seriously, try thinking before you say these things.

>>378637075
ah, my bad then.

>>378637254
See >>378637185

>>378637185
Nope, gotta work work on the next shitty 3D Sonic game.

>>378637336
I'm just saying...Sega has the resources to do a game like that

>>378637185
Considering they don't speak the same language, live on opposite sides of the world, and probably use different software? Also, considering throwing a bunch of people at a game doesn't automatically make it good? No, not really.

Shit, they already DID what you're proposing; HC and PW are on the payroll, increasing the budget exponentially, to help Tax and Stealth manage the workload. How many people do you want thrown at this Western side project before you're satisfied?

>>378625701
It played like a flash game. Good thing there was a demo for it before buying.

>>378637325
See
>>378637502

Not that your post refuted anything in what you're quoting, but...

>>378636885
That, in my opinion, was a mistake as well. Sega has always had an issue with stupid time limits.

>>378637625
>time limits
That was an issue with space limitations more than anything.

>>378637502
>Considering they don't speak the same language
Pretty sure Whitehead knows Jap

If you ask me I'd replace some members of Sonic Team with the entire staff of Mania Team. Most notably I'd replace Iizuka with Christian Whitehead

A lot of Sonic Team members do have talent they just have shit guidance by Iizuka and other hack directors

>>378637596
see >>378637424

>>378637898
You're not wrong, but this isn't the 80's, where Sakaguchi literally followed Nasir back to the States because his visa expired mid-development. Japanese beauracracy matters more than talent.

>>378637973
>Ignore all the points
>"But they have MONEY!!!"

Yes, I'm sure taking a quick side project, suddenly boosting its budget and throwing manpower at it to make it the "next big game" is a great idea.

What could go wrong?
>>378625701
You are a moron and you do not understand game development in the slightest.

>>378638061
>Japanese beauracracy matters more than talent.
This is slowly beginning to change
Sega seems like one of the most willing to change Jap companies in the last few years.

Look at how much they're supporting the PC platform recently for example

Heck they could revive "Sonic Team USA" that they had in San Francisco and make that the new division in charge of creating new 2D Sonic Games consisting of Mania Squad and a bunch of other Sega/Sonic Team additional staff

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if that happens eventually if Mania does end up being a huge success

>>378638290
All I've been saying from the beginning is that Sega has the money to do a game like that. Nothing more, nothing less

If you misinterpreted what I posted it's not my problem

>>378637502
>Considering they don't speak the same language, live on opposite sides of the world
This is the dumbest thing I've read today. Sonic Team has been stationed in San Francisco since the 90s, they are fluent in English and have English interviews. And it was confirmed in said interview that Sonic Team is working together with PagodaWest and Headcanon when Mania was revealed.

Seriously, for a thread filled with idiots who claim to know a thing about game development, you guys are fucking clueless.

>>378625701
It wasn't Sonic Mania.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvD8NZN9Zsg

>>378625701
It went wrong with literally everything. Everything about the game looks like a cheap, shitty mobile app which is what it was originally meant to be. SEGA seems genuinely ashamed of it though so that's good.

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>>378634823
>making a good game for once and employing dedicated, passionate, talented developers that have a proven track record with the series is a cheap transparent trick
wew lad

>>378638909
>Sonic Team has been stationed in San Francisco since the 90s
No that's "Sonic Team USA/Sega Studios USA" which was established to work on Sonic Adventure 2, Heroes, Shadow

They moved back to Japan for 2006 and that division was merged with "Sega Studios USA" and Rivals 2 was the last game that came out of that studio

>>378638909
>Sonic Team is working together with PagodaWest and Headcanon when Mania was revealed.
Only Hoshino and I believe Iizuka to some degree(not sure on the latter)

>>378636172
>outdated graphics
Underage detected

>>378636885
It wasn't time, it was how much could be fit on one cartridge, an excuse they no longer have.

>>378625701
By making shitty rehashes of Sonic 2 stages with only one original stage per episode.

>>378640353
They ARE outdated. They're 32X sprites
They're not even Sega Saturn or Neo Geo-tier sprites

NES games still look great but they're still outdated. Just because something doesn't age doesn't mean it isn't outdated

With modern technology you could so fucking much graphically

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>>378636545
>>378636613
>pic related is an amazing, flawless remake with beautiful handdrawn animation
>nobody ever talks about it
why?

>>378640637
no traps, despite what the title implies

>>378640557
Technically it was both...but it was more due to development costs more than anything. A 34 meg cart was expensive so they had to settle to selling it in 2 carts. Sonic Team weren't satisfied with that and later tried to release it as a complete version in one cart called "Sonic 3 Limited Edition" but Sega didn't let them

>>378640637
>those newground-tier graphics
>that ugly-ass HUD
NO
Sonic Mania looks better than this shit despite being low res

>>378640710
The difference is that Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles were both perfectly fine Sonic games independently that combined into something fantastic. Having "Episode 1" in the title of a game is instantly offputting because right out of the gate you know that you aren't getting a complete experience. This was especially insulting with how terrible everything else about Sonic 4 looked.

>>378641358
>The difference is that Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles were both perfectly fine Sonic games independently
That's because it was developed as one single game

>>378640637
That remake took four years to make and was purely audio-visual. When you're making games with new design it's much less of a strain and way easier to polish things when you use tiles and a style like Sonic Mania is using. If they went for a style like Dragon's Trap it would have taken two extra years and would have far less gameplay polish, regardless of budget.

>>378641771
I know, I wasn't implying that Mania should have done that I was just springboarding into talking about Wonder Boy.

>>378642325
Oh fair enough, it's basically a perfect remake

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>>378625701
It was Sonic Rush with the dash mechanic removed, and then all the graphics were replaced with this awful, sterile, plastic looking world.

Also, it's designed to be playable on smart phones first.

>>378634140
The Mania devs made fangames before being hired by SEGA. Mania was developed entirely as a commercial product.

>>378642513
And no tricks either

Everything went wrong and episode 2 isn't particularly decent either, it just barely fixes the garbage episode 1 had but even then it's still mediocre at best