What do they need to change mechanics-wise for Smash 5 not to suck?

>>378534865
Melee HD

There, I just saved Nintendo. You're welcome.

>>378534865
Not listen to Melee fags who won't buy anything and just complain all day.

Nothing, it's fine, meleebabies go home, you're too busy looking for broken controllers on ebay to win tournaments already it's not like you'll actually play the game.

Aerial momentum

Toggle between Melee and Smash 4 mechanics. Done.

Tekken 3 is the perfect fighting game.

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>>378534865
>yfw its just wii u version ported over with more DLC and renamed to "smash for switch"

>>378534887
Why would an HD version of the worst game in the franchise help?

>>378534865
Make shields and rolls weaker

>>378534887
Fuck off. Just put Smash 4, but make it a little bit faster, instead of shitty Melee faggotry.

more movement

>I want air dashing in 8 directions that can be canceled into a move but landing after doing so causes extra land lag
>parry on every character, cancel any move with a dash
>no bugs that are featured as mechanics, example that L-stop shit that reduces landing lag. That's stupid and unintuitive, why do I have to learn a glitch to play competitively
>high, mid, low hits
>instant shield
>faster attacks
>no ultimates

>>378535172
arent most already expecting that? that said I do think they will make a port and then start work on a true sequel

Get rid of third party characters. None of them were good and those rosters could go for more Nintendo owned properties. Be honest, there's really no point in keeping Snake,Sonic,Pacman,Ryu,Cloud,Megaman and Bayonetta over new and exciting character's right?

>>378534865
Bring back old air dodges
Less landing lag on aerials
Revert ledge mechanics
Make recoveries worse in general.
Buff the puff

>>378534865
Smash 4 is fine but shit doesn't have singleplayer so add a real Adventure mode or Subspace Emissary

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>>378534865
Smash needs tech, input, character specific playstyles. I know a lot of people say this will never happen but
Smash actually does have a few advance techs
relating to movement and macro exploits and maybe intended things like AB for pivot f-smashes and B reversing even pivot back air RAR.

Smash's problem is some characters have no depth and extremely poorly designed with only one or two things like recite a grab flowchart and poke with their safest move ad infinitum. Smash needs a mechnical redesign without being a clone of melee.

Losing in Smash 4 is so much more detrimental because the game lacks depth and a player rolling across the stage reciting a grab flowchart still stands a chance against a top player with good fundamentals. Yes the top player will beat the roll spammer for the most part consistently but every several games the roll spammer will bullshit a win.

>>378534865
Nothing, Smash 4 is the best in the series.

>>378536218
>Bring back old air dodges
>Revert ledge mechanics
God no.

>>378534865

Nerf shield regen so shield pressure becomes a more prominent factor.

>>378535781
That would still just be a faster version of an overly defensive game with extremely limited movement options though.

>>378538423
This and also increase shield stun.

Reduce knockback slightly to make the game more combo oriented and nerf recoveries as much slightly.
As well, punish stale moves harder and remove the less knockback clause from it. That will reduce the use of bread-n-butter.

>MUH MOVEMENT

Can someone explain to me the "lack of movement options" in Smash 4 compared to Melee?

Because every time I play Melee the movements seem to make even less sense, jumps have a habit of just not happening, and everything feels clunky as hell.

>>378535879
>competitive

Fuck off fag

>>378534865
A special jauge that fill up for certain action like, perfect sheild, doing combo and stuff.

Then a special button allows you to use it, to get no lag, or stronger hit or whatever, you get the idea.

>>378538962
When I first came back to Melee I felt the same way. The reality is that the game is heavy and fast. It feels clunky because Brawl and 64 are very floaty. 64s fastfall feels clunky to me but I got used to it.

they shud copy pasta soul calibur 2
without items and shit and some nice storymode and 3D not this shitty 2.5D fuckup

>>378539390
>When I first came back to Melee I felt the same way. The reality is that the game is heavy and fast. It feels clunky because Brawl and 64 are very floaty.

Yeah I kind of get that, but I just don't know what people mean when they talk about all the "movement options" Smash 4 doesn't have.

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>>378538962
>jumps have a habit of just not happening,

Melee doesn't have a stupidly huge buffer for inputs like jumping. So you have to actually wait for the iasa (interruptible as soon as) frame to come before you can jump. Where as in smash 4 you can press jump ten frames before the Iasa frame and it will jump for you because the game has a 10 frame buffer.

>>378534865
Aerial momentum/Jump momentum would be good.
Additionally: The opponent needs to be put into hitstun for longer when hit by an attack
Moves need less knockback in general so that they can followup vs an opponent in hitstun
Movement options need greater flexibility. Wavedashing (the exploit derived from having a directional airdodge, which in itself is a nice tool) would be nice, but just being able to run back and forth freely during the initial dash animation like in 64 and Melee would do wonders on its own
Directional influence should be applied in a similar way to Melee so that it is strong enough to allow for an opponent caught in a move to escape a string of the same move, but weak enough that if the attacking player reads the direction that the opponent is trying for they can put out a different move to follow up with instead, thus increasing the amount of player to player interaction during punish game situations
Revert ledge mechanics to those of the previous games since offstage play and edgeguarding has a whole lot of depth unto itself and is a really fun part of the game on both offense and defense
Rage should be removed as well.

>>378539550
Oh I see. Kind of hard to explain I guess if you play casually.

Try doing any of this in smash 4 and see how it differs

https://youtu.be/238BPPK4xd0

>bring back l canceling
>bring back dash dancing
>remove magnet hands
>general gravity increase
>keep sm4sh air dodge if you keep the control stick in a neutral position but add melee air dodges if you hold the stick in a direction so you bring back wavedashing while still keeping air dodge as a viable defensive option in the air
>air dodge now works like a double jump, you only get one before you hit the ground again

>>378535075
For the love of gods, this.
Also, make shields take twice as long to regen.

Melee fans will always just keep playing melee, they're honestly pretty separate from all other nintendo fans. A rerelease would definitely be nice but Nintendo is dumb enough to never do it.

Smash 4 was fine, it's not my thing but it succeeded at what it set out to do and has a fairly healthy meta for people into that.

Smash 5 will probably continue in the vein of 4, although a total upheaval would be nice too.

>>378534865
Delete cloud
Bring back snake

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Make it 3D

>Make rage cap at 100% instead of 150% if not outright getting rid of it.
>Half Shield regen rate

Would this be a decent trade for heavies?

>>378539656
>So you have to actually wait for the iasa (interruptible as soon as) frame to come before you can jump.

Makes sense, without that you could seemingly just jump out of any and everything.

But what happens when your first jump is ignored, and then you try again to jump again?

>>378540152
>Oh I see. Kind of hard to explain I guess if you play casually.
>Try doing any of this in smash 4 and see how it differs

Like obviously I don't see shit like this happening when I play/watch Smash4.

But why though? Aside from the speed what's the difference in the game mechanics that allow for these things in Melee but don't allow for them in Smash4?

>>378539550
Well, in Melee, there's no input buffer, meaning things happen within 4 milliseconds of your button press. In smash 4 if you attack and then press jump, the input is buffered for 10 frames and then applied and executed if applicable within that time. With melee you need to be exact. Additionally, jumps in melee have momentum carried from your prior action on the ground. So if you're running and then jump, you will jump further than if you were walking or standing and then decided to jump; melee also allows you to change your trajectory slightly while mid-air like all the other games, but the fact that you can drastically change how far you go via jump momentum means you have strictly more options. The 8 way directional airdodge is a tool in itself, but it also gives way to wavedashing which allows you to move back and forth while standing in place, which in itself allows you to use any attack that can be used from a standing position at any time. Wavelanding (the application of the diagonal down directional airdodge while trying to land on stage) allows for this AND allows you to change where you land on a platform without needing to wait for the landing animation. Meaning you can freely choose whether to stay on a platform, progress further on a platform (with full ability to choose whatever move you'd like), or simply drop from the platform in the opposite direction of how you landed upon it with a single flexible maneuver. Coupling this with the fact that you can wavedash out of shield, the fact that there are actually about 44 different angles (and therefore different trajectories you can wavedash/waveland at depending on how you want to mix up your approach), the dash dancing mechanic (the ability to run back and forth during your initial dash without entering the turn animation), and odd quirks and applications like moonwalking and stickywalking and you've got an incredibly robust and demanding movement system that has never been fully replicated.

>>378534865
Anyone else just want to play Smash on their Switch? I don't care if it's Melee or Smash 4.5 or anything, my 3DS' D-pad is starting to get fucked up from overuse and the Switch is a lot more comfortable to play on...

>>378540856
I would love to try a 3D Smash that is like a more refined Power Stone or One Piece Grand Battle.

>>378541028

Oh wow, thanks.

>>378541028
>>378539951
PARAGRAPHS

>>378534865
They need to make an actual classic mode and not that shitty "not fucking classic at all" mode

>>378540939
>Half Shield regen rate

Dude Sm4sh's shield regen is not that much more than melee's.

>>378540856
More seriously:
>GET RID OF FUCKING STAGE BOSSES
>Base the Omega stages on Battlefield instead of Final Destination
>Less stage hazards in general
>Turn items off by default
>No clones; either seriously differentiate Falco from Fox, Ganondorf from Captain Falcon, etc. or get rid of them

>>378534865
If they aren't going to have better physics/gameplay then they should at least make better characters
PM's character changes where great
>Wario is fun as hell
>Samus has the 2 beam modes
but in regular smash Samus is garbage and Wario is a meme with no shoulder bash

>>378534865
More lag after an airdodge.
More lag after rolls or less iframes.
Well, make the characters easier to punish after a bad defensive decision in general.
I would like some Brawl mechanics to come back like DACUS.
Real balancing with fast characters (or Cloud) who can completely shut down some high / mid-tiers

I would also really like to see the custom moves back maybe with more variety with them. But with a much better implementation. Like the possibility to select them directly from the character selection menu. I really think that they were viable tournament-wise and added an interesting way for some mid / low tiers to perform better.

Also maybe do some balancing with the FS and find a way to include them into the gameplay without the use of the Smash Ball. Though it's a risky bet.

add more tech into the game. it's to read/conditioning heavy.

Less disruptive stage hazard.
Possibility to turn them off.

>>378535879
l cancelling not a glitch

>>378542639

Would Wily Castle be a good tournament stage without the yellow devl?

For the casual side smash 4's items and stage hazards were frustratingly powerful and obstructive compared to previous games. Also stop making giant ass stages like Palutena's Temple. No one likes them.

>>378534865
I really want them to get rid of omega mode and put in an option that turns off stage hazards. Smash has some incredible level design that gets held back by that faggot birdman, among other problems, like Ridley, Yellow Devil, kart racers, everything happening around the star fox stages, etc.

>>378542831
Maybe? The layout seems really simple otherwise.

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>Less landing lag in general
>Single air dodge (but still not directional like Melee)
>Momentum carried over into jumps
>Rolling has more lag afterwards like previous games

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>>378540856
>Smash becomes a kid friendly Anarchy Reigns

>>378543137

Hyrule Temple is the perfect size for an 8 man match, they should have followed that example instead of going balls to the walls crazy with Palutena's Temple and Great Cave Offensive.

>>378535879
>party on every character
What a stupid and lazy design choice although unfortunately with Smash 4 they're already halfway there since half the roster has some sort of Counter move.

>Smash Switch

Are you ready for Arena Ferox, Yoshi's Island and Prism Tower?

>>378542831
IMO, I think so. Or at least, I would like it. Some small random platforms are completely okay in my book. It could even be a starter stage tournament-wise.

Also, Magicant on 3DS could maybe used as a counterpick without the awful birdmen. Not sure though since the platforms disposition might be used to stall.

>>378543510
I really can't understand their decisions when it comes to stages sometimes. Do they really think people want to fight the stage as much as their actual opponent?
>so let's make a fun mario inspired stage that transforms through some decent layouts
>and throw in some fucking faggot that will carry you off the top if you get close to him
Most of them aren't even fun for fucking about casually, because *I* want to dunk on my friends, not have the stage do it for me.

I'm worried about Ice Climbers if they decide to put them in the game. Without wobbling or chain grabbing available to give them the strongest grab game in the cast, they just won't feel like Ice Climbers anymore.