Refunding a Completed Game

>>378458671
Steam still has a sub 2 hour limit for refunds, right? If so, Devs need to making games in a quick-shit method and make games of a decent length.

Yes, you should only be able to return a game if it is not running properly.
Also stop making the same thread over and over.

The ideal solution would be for the devs to put how long the game is on the place where you buy it This way if it's 90 minutes they can't refund it under the guise of them not knowing any better, and devs can't complain unless they put a fake time completion.

>>378458671
If the game is so short it's beatable in 2 hours it deserves to get refunded.

I'd rather play 10 great 2 hour games than one good 20 hour game. When you guys start working full time and have actual time commitments you will understand.

>>378459395
There is a website called how long to beat that is usually really accurate.

>>378459547
Yes, but what I'm saying is the refund time limits should be based off of that for shorter games, as shorter games DO have their place (see Journey for instance). Once the person reaches say, 75% of the estimated completion time or two hours (whichever comes first) it becomes ineligible for a refund.

>>378459729
Reasonable. But it should be like 25% of completion.

https://boards.fireden.net/v/search/subject/Refunding%20a%20Completed%20Game/

Learn what a troll is you brain dead retards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

>>378458671
you shouldnt set a price for game that short.

>>378458671
>finishing a shmup one time on normal difficulty
>"beat"
Whoever made this picture missed the point of the genre.

>>378459395
>devs to put how long the game is
That's completely subjective and doesn't work for certain genres.
How long is Skyrim? You can beat the main quest in 5 hours, but that's barely 5% of the quests in the game. If you're a completionist you can play for hundreds of hours. If you're into modding you can play for thousands of hours.

>>378459401
This. A game should be long, or have replay value. If it has neither it should be free.

>>378458671
If their game is only 2 hours long with no replayability than they deserve it

its how i "played" abzu

I think devs of these games should be protected somehow from refunds like this, but I'm not sure how it can be done. If they want to make a game as short, and "contentless" (some may say), that is fine because there is a market for that. I don't know if the data unearthed from time to complete is reliable enough to really use in this situation, but it seems like a good place to look towards.

This is why the Gone Home devs jumped ship to consoles. Sony and MS won't refund anything, so they're free to make their contentless snoozefests and charge full price for them.

>>378460105
>This. A game should be long, or have replay value. If it has neither it should be free.
I don't agree, because I don't think length and amount of content matters. You ironically claim subjectivity interferes with assessing how much time someone can put into a game, but do you see that your values about games may differ from others? Short games are fine, and most people aren't caught blind-sided by game length these days beyond the first day of release.

>>378460356
>jumped ship
they have a new game coming soon, on all platforms. What did you mean?

Devs should NOT be protected by refunds. If you make a game that's less than 2 hours and you sell it on a platform with a 2 hour refund limit, you deserve it.

It's not even a 2 hour refund limit, its less than that because you have to fiddle with options settings and maybe you'll watch a cutscenes or two. And your game is so short you're still having it beaten within the refund limit? No, make a longer game.

>>378460567
>Devs should NOT be protected by refunds

If it wasn't for the threat of refunds, Rocksteady and WB would've left Arkham Knight dead in the water. It still runs like shit, but it would've been basically unplayable.

>>378460853
protecting 2 hour games from being refunded once completed is not the same as protecting a triple-A studio from selling a turd and running away before anyone noticed. No one is advocating for a 30 hour triple-A game to be protected, but small devs who make small games should be.

>all these people saying there should be protections from this
If the game:
1. Takes so little time to beat
2.doesn't make you feel like you want to keep it, offers no more beyond what you've done and wasn't good enough to want to replay
And 3. Costs so much that it's worth refunding in the first place
Then it should have no protections as it isn't worth the money, are you kidding?

>>378458671
>need
HAHAHAHAHA

Let's be serious for a sec, most of these small dev games, you buy for pennies when they're on sale, you forget about them for 8 months, then you wonder when you bought them and why.

Be honest, how often do you immediately play the non-AAA games you buy? They're already protected by the fact that we all have several hundred games sitting in out Steam accounts, and by the fact that it'll be a long, long time before we get anywhere near their game.

>>378461218
Who are you to say what anyone's money is worth to them? I don't mind 2 hour games, as long as it isn't a surprise.

i did this with FarSky a year ago and still feel shitty about it

>>378461692
How am I dictating how much people's money is worth to them by saying consumers should be empowered to make worthwhile purchases? Like you said: there will be people like yourself who keep two hour games despite the length because it has worth to you. You're probably going to replay it at some point. That's your choice to make, not the developers. Products should not me marketed on the basis of tricking the consumer.

>>378462212
You said games that are 2 hours long are not worth money. You made a claim about the value of a product compared to its monetary cost. You said it, not me.

And I am of the mind that the consumer should be more intelligent, and research what they're getting into before they spend the money. If they buy a game for more money than they are comfortable for a 2 hour experience, and they could have known this prior, then I don't think the dev is the one to blame.

>>378461218
Movie tickets don't make me feel like i should keep them. I end up throwing them out infact. Should i get a refund? When blockbuster existed. I would rent a game and take it back when i beat it. Arw you saying, because i didn't purchase the copy from blockbuster immediately after beating it i should be refunded my rental fee?
How about look what you are getting into before buying a game. I hate forcing devs yo artificially lengthen their games or limit a field of creativity because some faggots feel entitled to have the ability to game the system.

>>378462485
It's not like they tell you the running time, dickweed.

Like movies don't have this problem - they give you the running time from the getgo.

>>378458671
Do developers need protection if you beat their game and sell it to gamestop?

>>378462754
You can still find out. Information is readily available, and Steam users especially have the capability of reading reviews or looking at gameplay online. I don't think there is any actual excuse for consumer ignorance, unless you straight up didn't care which then tells me you don't have the right to feel ripped off.

>>378462754
https://howlongtobeat.com
>>378462878
No because gamestop gives you a fraction of what you paid. They don't give full refunds. And gamestop doesn't take back the devs cut of the orignal sale.

>>378462925
You must be American - you're welcome for the refund system thanks to our courts, dickweed.

>>378462996
>https://howlongtobeat.com

Averages aren't the actual run time, which is why they say 6-8 hours for modern games.

>>378458671
KEK. nice work anon, FUCK DEVELOPERS

>>378462996
>A pre-owned item can be returned for your money back within 7 days or an exchange of the same item within 30 days.
>A pre-owned item can be returned for your money back within 7 days

>be me
>use gamestop as modern blockbuster
>buy preowned
>return game by next week
>get full cash back

>>378462485
>>378462485
>>>378462212 (You)
>You said games that are 2 hours long are not worth money. You made a claim about the value of a product compared to its monetary cost. You said it, not me.
Point me to where and I'll take this as an actual argument. Was it the "costs so much it's worth refunding"? Because the overwhelming majority lot people aren't going to refund a 1 dollar game, even a two dollar game. It simply isn't worth the time investment to most. I even state that there is room for "I want to keep this because I like it and it's worth it to me". Your argument doesn't hold water and is anti consumer and anti creator. If I made a piece of art I wouldn't want to encourage people to find out everything about it before experiencing it, I'd much rather they allow themselves to be surprised and enjoy it.
>>378462639
Movies are not video games and movie tickets are not movies. Try again. If the game is a worthwhile sub two hour game people would keep it regardless of the short length.

>>378463165
I am American, and I think that my opinions are pretty hostile to American consumer entitlement more than anything.

>>378463165
you must be an entitled cuck

>>378463346

>>378461218
>If the game:
>1. Takes so little time to beat
...
>Then it should have no protections as it isn't worth the money, are you kidding?

>>378458671
The number of achievements you have. If you have more than 25%, you cannot refund it.

>>378463501
This would effect the achievement economy tho

>>378463356
You have no idea how dicked you American consumercucks are thanks to your laws.

Enjoying that internet monopoly?

>>378463501
>be dev
>have 100 "secret" cheevos
>start up game
>CHEEVO
>press start
>CHEEVO
>enter name
>CHEEVO
>move with WASD
>CHEEVO

>>378458671
I think it should be progress-based.
If you complete 25% of the game, or 2 hours passed, whichever is first, then you can't refund.

>>378463546
I have no idea? I do have an idea, I just don't have the same opinion on it as you do.

>>378463501
So developers will just give you 25% of the achievments in the tutorial.

>>378463481
You see now you're taking a single part of a three part statement as your arguement. Ever heard of an and gate? It's like that. If all of those things are true then blank.

>We should stop killers from getting to our children
>We should ... kill... our children
That's you

>>378458671
Maybe there should be a scaling window. 4 hours for a 60 dollar game, 2 hours for 30, etc. Seems weird to have the same time window on fallout 4 as Antichamber

>>378463817
I have you in the palm of my very relaxed grip, and still you struggle like your life were being squeezed out of you. Fool.

Short games should have replay value.

>>378463276
Used games don't effect publishers or devs.
It's a false comparison they got their cut on the orignal sale.
>>378463346
>people will pay for something they can get for free

Look at this dumbass commie.

>>378463625
Literally no different than any AAA game released today

I've played free flash games for more than 2 hours
There's no excuse

>>378460168
I downloaded it yesterday because it was free
I'm really forgiving when it comes to what can be considered a game, but its not a game
I didn't even finish it

hold R2 to swim, and that's it
why would anyone pay money for that?

its just journey except 1000000x less charming

Wait, aren't the consumers who buy shit upon launch day supposed to be mistreated? They don't wait for the select reviews.

>>378464171
I always wonder why developers/artists put in a lot of effort into making flash games when they could be selling them on Steam/iOS

>>378464032
But anon. The person I was responding to just said he'd keep a sub two hour game and not refund it willingly. He's a living example you are wrong. People like to keep things they like.

>>378458671
No.
They shouldn't release games that are so short.

>>378464431
this point has already been debated and it was determined that it has no validity.

>>378461154
No they shouldn't.
No one should be protected.

If you make shitty games, they're gonna get refunded.

>>378464506
>I decided this for everyone
Nope.

>>378464596
No, I don't think that's true. What you mean by "shitty" is also up for debate, and is not a standard you'd set any kind of policy by anyway.

>>378463961
hrmph...... think me a fool do you? fufufu well see how foolish i am after THIS *teleport behind you*

>>378464394
You were responding to me. I never said that.
In fact

>>378464702
Valve determines what 'shitty' means.
If you have umbrance with that, take it up with Valve.

>>378464787
I should have crushed you, I should have swung you in my webby fist like sack of squirming puppies and crashed you against my cave wall... I should have, I should have...

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>>378458671
Why do people bother with the refunds system when you can pirate it without the hassle? Outside online games, I guess.

And don't even try to pretend it's convenience, finding a game in the steam store takes about as much time as it takes to find a working torrent of just about any game.

>>378458671

I enjoy games with replay value. If a game only has 2 hours worth of content with 0 replay value, I should be able to refund it.

>>378458671
The argument against steam refunds is always made by shit devs who have only put out mediocre games and shovelware. A person is not going to go out of their way to buy a game and refund it only to have their funds not available for several days when they could just go online and pirate it without the hassle.

>/v/ logic
>$60 game 8 hrs long
>sorry no refunds

>$5 game 2 hrs long
>fucking faggots don't deserve my money!

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>I'm going to contrive a scenario that very rarely happens in real life
>This constitutes a legitimate argument to alter a perfectly functional refund system

Fuck off, talentless indie dev. Your days of making ten minute long Unity store asset flips and making a quick buck off gullible children with their parents' credit cards are over.

>>378464850
I know you probably missed the rest of your post but I'll cut you off right there.
>>378461692
>I don't mind 2 hour games, as long as it isn't a surprise.
You might have been the "I don't want to keep my vomit bag after I've vomited in it, this is relevant" tard and not this guy but there you go. In addition: people often buy things that they can get for free. Bottled water has an entire industry. People buy video games when piracy is an option, otherwise it wouldn't be as big an industry as it is. Your argument is shit and you shouldn't continue typing it.

>>378464693
But it's the person saying they shouldn't exist that decided for everyone.

>>378465023
People are stupid that's why.
Also they care about cheevos and muuh steam.

>>378459395
The devs of The Order 1886 claimed their game was 12 hours long.

First time playthroughs are reported to be as short as 4 hours. And 1 hour of "interactive cutscenes" is included in that.

>>378465518
Asset flips are a literal boogeyman. I have never seen one on Steam ever. The only flippers I ever see are pajeets and chinamen in mobile stores who are straight up stealing other peoples shit.

>>378465561
>as long as it's not a surprise.
Well use google then you fucking mouth breather. Congrats it's no longer ever a surprise refund system is no longer needed arguement over.
The argument that people can steal, so stores should refund anything after use is absurd. There is also a difference between.
>dev gets no money.
And
>Dev gets money, dev has to pay back money.
You also just took. The movie example and never adressed the blockbuster one because hurr movies aren't games.

>>378465023
Limited availability. If it's not a reasonably popular game there might be very few, if any seeders, if the torrent exists in the first place. It's fun to see what extremely niche games weirdos make. 5-ish bucks, and if it's obviously crap you just refund it. In this way I found a few games that probably only I think are neat.

>>378458671

I don't think the video game medium is meant for 2 hour gameplay. Arcades have short gameplay, but the most successful machines excel in repeat business rather than a one time transaction.

>>378465756
>Asset flips are a literal boogeyman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZbFj-JJ0t8

They do exist though. Sorry about the homo lets player, but you'll see how none of the art, physics, textures or really anything matches up

>>378465023
>pirate it without the hassle?
pirating is such a fucking hassle i just won't bother

Itt retards don't understand refunds are a scame put in place to benefit AAAs.
It's like mail in rebates. They coax you to do low information purchases and preorders because "if it's shit i can return it" but most people just don't care enough to bother or end up over 2 hours in.

I'm willing to wager even on a game like watch_dogs you get like 5 people who went in knowing everyone says it's shit with the mindset they can always refund it. But end up not doing so, for every one thst just legitimately didn't know it was trash and ends up returning it.

Fucking over indies was just collateral damage no one involved cares about.

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>>378466220
>refunds are pro corporation
?????

>>378466370
Yes? Why did you think they did it? Out of the goodness of their fucking hearts?

>>378466453
How do they benefit?

>>378465654
https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=20067

>>378466453
No, out of legal obligation. Valve was under fire for its anti-consumer sale policy.

>>378466137
That's a game made by one person and its the only video game they have on Steam. Making the claim that they purposely invested in some assets just hoping to make a few $ not caring about the final product at all is dubious as all hell. Much more likely they are just a novice game dev and this is the best they could produce at the time.

>>378466509
PR

>>378465756
If you're just looking at the home and recommend pages, then yeah. If you start scraping the bottom of the barrel. Some the the super cheap, not-worth-a-shit games are just straight-up bought from the Unity store and plopped down with the bare minimum of effort to make it their own. Minimal effort RPG maker games fall under the same spirit and are much more obvious. Drawing over a generic sprite, the generic sound effects, etc. True, though, that's it's nothing compared to the mobile store.

>>378465901
Your argument was:
>people won't pay for something they can get for free
I explained that: no, people do pay for things they can get for free, they do it all the time. It has nothing to do with the idea of stealing: video games are available for free in a pretty low-risk way and yet people pay for them. People have water thay comes from their taps yet people pay for it in bottles. People can and will buy things they otherwise have access to.

Your blockbuster argument was also shit: a rental is not a purchase. When you pay blockbuster for a rental free you are paying to have the game for a set period of time. You have it for the same amount of time no matter how little or how much you play it. You can't ask for a refund because you're paying for that time with the product, not the product itself. If steam offered rentals rather than purchases your argument would be valid. You are really bad at this and I preferred the other guy.

>>378466509
I already described it.
People purchase it thinking they can always return it if it's shit then don't end up doing it, or get denied.
It's the dame psychology as mail in rebates.
You think wow it's only $50 when i mail in this paper. But then you never do it so it's really $100. Or it never gets processed because you fucked up.
If refunds bring in 5 sales and 4 refund it, it's worth it for valve, unisoft ea etc. Not so much for indies who don't have the cash on hand to deal with money in money out like that.
>>378466612
That's just a meme. Plently of retailers in North America don't do refunds on working products. Never seen any legislation that says US based valve has to.

>>378466714
Yeah. WB got a shitload of great PR when people mass returned their game for being a broken piece of shit. So did hello games when their game was rubbish. You're talking shit.

>>378466681
That refutes the argument how? Incompetence or malice, it's shit that deserves to be refunded either way.

>>378458671
>beat binding of isaac rebirth on first try
>not even half an hour
>twenty us dollars

fuck indie games

>>378466786
>muhh bottled water
The cognitive dissonance in saying that this is a fair comparison but somehow rentals aren't is obsurd.
Bottled water is not an equivalent product to tap water. People don't buy bottled water cause they just want to support dasini or aqufina. They buy it for assurance of quality or convenience depending on location. A better example would be a vending machine that has a cash return button that works even aftet the water bottle is dispensed. People would spam the shit out of the button. And then you argue no one would press the button because if they just wanted free water they'd use the tap. When in reality they bought bottled water, because it is not the exact same as using a tap.b

>>378466721
Those RPG maker games are typically made by young people and the autisitic i-wanna-make-videogames people. I don't think these people are purposely trying something deceptive or fraudulent, I think they are just bad at making games.

I mean the idea of asset flipping is plausible I just dont think it is going down on any scale worth worrying about. And people just use the term as a pejorative for games they don't like.

>>378466984
Both were forced into it by retailers also was better pr than if they didn't accept the refunds retard...

>>378467264
If the game purports to do something it can't or just straight up crashes and never works than sure. But if you finish a game and feel bamboozled because it turns out it was made by a 18 year old mexican kid who draws sonic fanfiction on deviantart well thats your own problem.

>>378458671
No. If you make a game that's only an hour long then you better make sure you have something in it to keep players engaged longer than that. Lot of my favorite games are really short ones but there's enough to the mechanics that keep me coming back for hours if not years. The only time they should get protection is if some asshole is clearly abusing the refund system to rent games but very few people do that since they're still putting money on the line when they could just pirate instead.

>>378465509
the sad fact is that it's almost never $5

they usually charge at minimum $20 for their short walking simulator, some even charge $30

its unacceptable to charge so much for something with no replay value

>>378466951
>play less than 2 hours
>refund entirity of price

how is this comparable to a rebate you cumtard

>>378467613
This.
In the age of google you have no fucking excuse

>>378465023
Bro kat and piratebay have been taken down, there's nowhere else to go

>>378467790
no they haven't...

>>378467739
What? The psychology and reasoning behind them is the same.
Not the actual product being offered.
How the fuck can such a simple concept fly over your head? You must get scammed by both.

>>378467294
A rental is not the same as buying something. It really isn't that hard of a concept. They're fundamentally not the same thing. However when we're discussing the concept of people paying for things they otherwise have access to bottled water is absolutely relevant.
>assurance of quality
Yeah because Traceylynn in her gated community is honestly receiving water of poorer quality. It's a marketing spin, nothing more.
>convenience
You know what's also convenient? Having water delivered directly to your home that you can carry with you anywhere. You know what's inconvenient? Filling out a refund form for a two dollar game.

>>378466951
>That's just a meme. Plently of retailers in North America don't do refunds on working products. Never seen any legislation that says US based valve has to.


there's no legislation, but there was also no reason not to make it a blanket policy throughout steam

if they hadn't people would just be spoofing their region to get refunds

at least with this method, they get positive PR out of it.

>>378459436
I have a full time job, and while i agree during the work week the 2 hour games come in handy, during the weekends when i'm off, i'd rather play a 20 hour game than a bunch of 2 hour games.

Though i usually don't play anything because i'm too tired from working and just want to shut my brain off and watch shitty shows on primewire / youtube / wherever.

>>378467892
probably because he's not a retard like you and has never fallen for those "scams" so it's not something that he can even comprehend.


If you don't follow through on rebates, you're a retard

if you don't refund a game you didn't like, you're a retard

and if you're posting about how much of a scam it all is, you're a retard.

>>378467967
>he's never been to a foreign country.
Enjoy your stomache problems retsrd.
But i think you are being obtuse. I don't care if you think buying water bottles is justified or silly. This isn't your blog. If you think people buy them simply to support bottled water companies you are a fucking idiot. They do it because the toonie isn't worth the opportunity cost of walking over to the tap or they don't have a cup on them or they like grabbing it out the fridge. It is clearly not am equivalent product to the purchaser. Don't care id they are idiots or not.
Now again. If i could hit the return cash button after buying a whater bottle on every vending machine, and everyone knew this. Do you honestly believe no one would do it, do you think it would be a sustainable business for water bottle companies.

Furthermore if you do believe people would hit the button why do you think they would? By your logic they would never do it because if they wanted free water they would use the tap, so they just really want to pay for water.

>>378467892
i buy a game with the expectation that ill enjoy it, not that i can get my money back. Refund is there in the event i decide I don't enjoy it. you are literally cumtarded

>>378458671
>Total Refund 2.27 to your Steam Wallet
Read the fucking image you autists.

There's nothing wrong with a $2 game being $2 hours. Especially for a fucking STG on the lowest fucking difficulty.

>>378460105
>That's completely subjective and doesn't work for certain genres.
>How long is Skyrim? You can beat the main quest in 5 hours
Then it's 5 hours. How "long" a game is, is implied from the start of the game to the credit roll and only the necessary steps taken to get there. Mean no "side activities".

The only genre i can think of that would defy this categorization would be procedurally generated survival/sandboxes like minecraft, rust, etc where there's no "goal" for the game. In which case, the 2 hour rule would still fit them because it's easy to tell if you like those kinds of games or not within the first two hours.

>>378468885
>Lowest difficulty

Game has easy, medium and hard

Don't know where you thought "normal" was the lowest you dumb homo

>>378469141
Normal is the difficulty in like 90% of those games to be fair

>>378468519

>If you don't follow through on rebates, you're a retard
They make it tricky on purpose to fuck people but that is irrelevant. This isn't a value judgement or statement of if you should do it or not. It's a simple fact they do it because they know 4/5 won't even bother filling it out. I don't give a fuck if you do or not.
>if you don't refund a game you didn't like, you're a retard
This isn't a value judgement or statement of if you should do it or not. It's a simple fact they do it because they know 4/5 won't even bother filling it out. I don't give a fuck if you do or not.

>and if you're posting about how much of a scam it all is, you're a retard.
I don't get why such a stupid person who can't grasp basic concepts is so quick to call others a retard but i guess it's how the ignorant stay ignorant.

>>378468668
Peoples purchasing behaviour is changed in the presence of refunds, people are less reluctant to make a purchase. But can get lazy on the refund.

I don't know if it subconsciously effects you or what you say is 100% true of you. But it's irrelevant.
It's like saying Credit Card companies can't possibly make money because i pay my bill in full every month and have no annual fees. They must just operate as a charity. CCs benefit me, and hell refunds do to. But change how amnd why they exist. Though im not saying it's inheritantly bad then.

>>378469270
>But change how amnd why they exist. Though im not saying it's inheritantly bad then.
Did I have a stroke?

Meant but that doesn't change how and why they exist. But i don't mean to say they shouldn't or are inheritantly bad.

>>378468595
Your first argument ignores the fact that the industry is flourishing in first world countries.

Your second argument continues to try and assert that I'm trying to argue that people give money to bottled water companies because they like them rather than what I've been saying which I will state again and plainly: the idea that people wouldn't pay for something they can get for free because of the added convience is fucking stupid and so are you. You can fuck off with your magic vending machine argument because it isn't relevent. Going through the process of refunding the game is not worth it for a canadabuck to most people. Deliberately inflammatory op who returned a game he didn't like and didn't play all of aside.

But you're right: games companies aren't water companies. The consumer has even more reason to give the company their money because they actually want to support them working even more in the favour of good games getting good funding. If people wouldn't pay for video games they can otherwise get for free through a process that's less convenient why does the industry exist at all?

>>378469270
so you want there to be no refunds because people might forget to refund if they dont like it

>>378469270
you're projecting your own personal experiences onto others, stop that.

>>378461576
Only time i do that is when I buy humble bundles and such that includes games i never intend to play just to buy the one or two games i actually am interested in.

>>378469656
No. Just trying to inform people. I like it. I refunded Nier because i kept getting crashes. See
>>378469646


>>378469706
Okay sure bud.

>>378469646
Jesus this autistic diatribe.
Would people refund water bottles or not? Yes or no.
People buy from steam because it's convenient or preferred for them.
People buy bottled water because it's convenient or preferred for them.
A refund button on steam is like a refund button on the vending machine.

>>378469850
Oops meant see
>>378469516

>>378470029
I addressed why the vending machine button isn't the same thing. It's ironic that you call me autistic when you're the one hyperfixating on something so rediculous. The refund process on steam isnt like a button on a vending machine. Its like the refund process on steam. The bottled water was to illustrate that people can and would pay for soemthing they can otherwise get for free and that prople would pay for convenience. I'm not going to argue with you further about your stupid analogy that's only tangentially related to what I said.

>>378470608
>would pay for convenience.
Yes and that contradicts your Orignal arguement that people wouldn't use steam and then refund, when they can pirate. When the obvious answer is convenience. People buy from dteam because they are willing to pay for convenience.
Refund button on both the vending machine and steam gives them both. Free without compromising the convenience offered.

>>378470849
Protip: filling out a form isnt convenient and people wouldn't do it for a leafsheckle.

>>378471049
It takes like two seconds.

>>378471242
And is also inconvienent. Time is not the only identifier of convenience. Rolling over in bed to get my phone is inconvenient. Hell, so does putting trading cards up on the store but I'm not about to fuck around with that because it isn't worth the 13 pence.

>>378458671
no. shit games like limbo deserve to be refunded.
you're not making interactive movies. make actual video games with content. making content isn't even that expensive/time consuming.

>>378471753
Then don't buy it fag.

>>378460445
would you pay for a 10 minute movie?

>>378471861
Then don't sell it, fag.

>>378460105
better question: what are you doing rushing through a game in under an hour?
you clearly don't get much out of it if that's the case and don't really care.

>>378471861
I don't. I refund them. :)
fuck supporting shitty devs shilling their glorified flash games.

>Japanese game
>1 hour of fun boss fights
>30 minutes interesting narrative.
>30 minutes of cool worl exploring.
>98 hours of spamming the attack button on palatte swapped enemies.
Wow 100 hours of gameplay for $60!!!
>western game.
> 2 hours of fun gameplay.
Wtf only 2 hours!? I should get my money back. This is criminal you shouldn't be allowed to charge money for games this short. I was scammed because I didn't google the game before i bought it.

>>378472908
That's okay as long as you wasted 2 hours on a game you hate. Opportunity cost of your time was probably higher than the cost of the game anywaym

>>378473141
Yeah you really should look at the game in the OP before defending it

>>378473141
I mean, that's not really true. Most traditional JRPGs have well over 5 hours of interesting story bullshit. Take Persona 5 as a recent example, the first 4 hours of the game is literally just plot, at least some of that is interesting and as you play the game the narrative just gets better. If we look at more action based Japanese games, shit like Yakuza, NieR (both), Gravity Rush, Vanquish, Metal Gear and so on, there's a fuckton of gameplay and interesting narrative. As for NieR and Gravity Rush, world exploring is also a big part of it.

Also
>western game
>2 hours of fun gameplay
I promise you that the one hour of gameplay OP played, wasn't all fun anon. The only western game I've played recently is WoW and that's got a fuckton of content, even though it's not all fun and there's no refunds.

>>378472482
Even better question, do you know how a Shot´em up works?
Or are you this retarded?