Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected

Yeah well, maybe in Doom, Quake, Unreal and other shooters where it's pretty much irrelevant but at the end is just a generalization that falls flat in other kind of games, specially RPGs and survival horror.

>>378418623
Gameplay > Story
Story in vidya isn't essential as long as the gameplay is interesting, but a good story can make a game that much better. If the story is good enough it has the potential to make up for mediocre gameplay (Bioshock for example).
It depends on the balance between the 2.

Porn with a story is literally all I can get off to.
What am I supposed to be aroused by if I have no context?

>>378418853
But in survival horrors the element of horror must be done through gameplay elements. Also, Carmack is not implying there should be no stories in games.

>>378418861
That kind of sentiment can't be applied so broadly. Story absolutely is essential to certain genres.

>>378418623
He is right. If I want a good story I read a book.

>>378418975
Sure, but if the gameplay's shit you probably won't be playing the game.

POLLPOLLPOLLPOLLPOLLPOLLPOLL

http://www.strawpoll.me/13065619

POLLPOLLPOLLPOLLPOLLPOLLPOLL

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>>378418623
I don't care about the story. It's a fucking game. I want to shoot shit, slash shit, collect shit and make shit. If there's a good story, then cool, just a cherry on top. If the story is bad, who gives a fuck as long as the gameplay is good? 99% of game stories are utter dogshit and don't even make any sense within the context of the gameplay. If you play games for story, you are a literal faggot.

Gameplay > story

Yet apparently cinematic story = game now

>his studio was called id
>they made action games
>claims story is not important for their games
yeah no shit Carmack

>>378418623
>yesterday

Why not make new threads instead of admitting you're just posting the same ones every day?

>>378419218
It wasn't me yesterday. The last OP was retarded

>>378418949
Story is the drive of survival horror games like SH, if the story is garbage and poorly presented the game, even with good survival elements horror elements would be just mediocre because in those games the story plays a big role.

Same can be said about games like Shenmue and Hotel Dusk, where unveiling the story is part of the core experience.

Games and porn need a narrative of some kind. The problem is lots of people can't fathom any story other than basic linear Novel style plots.

Context is what games need, an interesting world to play in and reasons to do what you are doing. This can be incredibly simple, like Doom "experiments went wrong. DEMOMS. kill them". Other games need more because they keep changing what you are doing.

No matter how good a game, it won't be fun if it's bland and there's no reason to feel invested in what you are doing.

>>378419009
Then go read a book, but that doesn't stop people who want good story in games to actually enjoy it.

>>378419348
Story is important, but it's gameplay that eventually makes you shit yourself out of fear. Jumpscare is more a feature than a story element.

I get bored with games when there isn't a story. I don't think I'll ever get bored with porn.

Gameplay-wise most games just have you doing the same thing for 40+ hours, which was entertaining when I was first getting into games, when video games like Sonic the Hedgehog were short enough not to wear out their welcome, but these days I need a compelling story to get me from point A to point B. For all the memes about immersion being able to empathize with the characters within the world seems pretty important.

The people who unironically post in favour of "gameplay" itt are the same sort of people who see no glaring problem with fully grown men playing smash bros, a game made for children with cartoon characters, competitively.

Let that sink in for a moment.

>>378419473
How is that related?

>>378419397
Tetris

>>378419516
No healthy grown man plays games that have stories made for children, no matter how great the gameplay is.

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>>378419473
There's nothing to digest, you banal piece of shit.

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>>378419473
>playing games for gameplay is childish, but becoming emotionally invested in a shitty video game story is what big boys do
Imagine being this gay.

>>378419672
And yet, you frequent /v/. Ironic, isn't it?

>>378418623

Every game I played in the past years would profit from a skip all cutscenes/dialogues options. Videogame story is pure fucking trash and it doesnt help that the gameplay is also.
Unskipable cutscenes are the epitome of shit and I drop the game automaticly

>>378419717
>emotionally invested
Has nothing to do with that, most people aren't emotionally invested in video games, books or movies. Mostly it's women who are emotionally invested in tv shows.

>>378419820
Whatever you want to call it, giving a shit about cringey game stories and then saying that playing games for good gameplay makes you childish is just about the most autistic thing I've ever heard.

>>378419717
>games are for children

Well it's not far off. Not that adults can't do it too, but I'd definitely say that children are more likely to enjoy play for the sake of play. Adults generally do want a story and watch dialogue heavy films that'd put children to sleep.

>>378419447
This.
For a game to be a game you don't need a story. The same way people can enjoy a David Lynch movie and never know if they saw a story or just random events captured on film.
That being said, I think a lot of people are thinking story in games like you'd have in a book. You can tell a story in a game just through gameplay. Games like Journey, Inside or Limbo come to mind, games that experiment with telling a story without saying or writing a single word.

>>378419954
Most people who think all game stories are shit think so because they play shit games.

>>378419954
Playing games for "good gameplay" is literally incoherent in and of itself. It's like saying that you're playing games for "good keypressing or buttonpushing".

As for game stories being cringey. Is this somehow supposed to be endemic of every game made? Obviously not, retard. And the same criticism can be made of any medium, so I don't know what you're getting at. Dumb faggot.

>>378420076
What game story is good in your opinion?

>>378419152
How does it feel to be this simple?

>>378418623
>all these plebs who don't understand that story can augment gameplay

I only play video games for story fight me faggots.

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Games like pic related are proof good story can make a huge part of makes final game stand from others and without having to downplay the gameplay.

>>378420076
>>378420141

Stop revoking my grey cells

>>378420210
You are delluded if you think both can coexist.

>>378418623
Depends on the context of the game. In old school arcade-style affairs, yes, the story takes a backseat to everything else. That doesn't mean games can't be narrative heavy or tell a story if it wants.

Having only good gameplay means the game is easily forgettable
See Vanquish

>>378420141
>Playing games for "good gameplay" is literally incoherent in and of itself.
What the fuck does this even mean? Go play Barbie Horse Adventures and tell me more about how the gameplay is as good as Dark Souls autismo.

>As for game stories being cringey. Is this somehow supposed to be endemic of every game made? Obviously not, retard. And the same criticism can be made of any medium, so I don't know what you're getting at. Dumb faggot.
This faggot actually thinks video games can have a story that's as good as a book or movie. Whoa.

>>378419152
"I played fallout 4 and liked it" the post.

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>>378420195
How does it feel to be such a faggot that you are actually capable of caring about a cringey video game story?

Depends on the game.
Sometimes it's simply not needed or the story might be so awful or plain forgettable that it might as well not be there. But it's foolish to ignore that a good story can also really get you emotionally involved in the gameplay which can create some extremely memorable moments.

>>378420302
Pretty much, also story in some cases can save a mediocre game and make it worth playing, if Skyrim had a decent story and characters it would be worth playing despite it's flaws as an rpg.

>>378420342
> Go play Barbie Horse Adventures and tell me more about how the gameplay is as good as Dark Souls

>Go play one game that has a worse story than than Dark Souls and tell me me the gameplay is better
Of course it isn't, because Dark Souls has a better story.

>>378420465
>Dark Souls has a better story
Which, ironically, is unraveled through a gameplay mechanic.

>>378420465
>he plays Dark Souls for the story
Homosexual identified.

>>378420284
Why do people who barely play any games think they're an authority on good game design?

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>>378420452
My extreme example is Deadly Premonition. Purely gameplay wise, it's a fucking disaster, but fuck me if I didn't fall in love with the characters.

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>>378420351
"I choose to play as a woman if there's a character creator" the post.

>>378420150
Witcher 3's side quest writing is very strong.

>>378420342
>This faggot actually thinks video games can have a story that's as good as a book or movie

Many say it's better than that of the books'.

>>378420629
>Witcher 3's side quest writing is very
True, but they're still optional, and many players may simply miss them. However, good point.

>>378420629
>Many say it's better than that of the books'.
It can't, because no matter how hard you try to make it serious and epic, at the end of the day you're still going to be autistically collecting meaningless items and seeing the same character dialogue 50 times.

When I was a little lad, and first watched porn, I loved it. A couple fucking and all, it was vanila porn. After a while, it got really boring, so I moved on to other genres.Now, most of the time I just jerk it to doujins, sometimes because of the art style/genre, other times because of how hot the story is.
What I'm trying to say is, story is just cherry on the top. While shit story can be excused, shit gameplay can't. But then again, without story gameplay is just another game,much like a porn without plot is just 2 people fucking, and only good for instant gratification with 0 immersion.And that is why games these days are crap.
Because without story , and purely gameplay wise,everything is already done, you can't make a FPS to overtake doom(I do not consider underage "gamers" human,so arguments like "b-but overwatch is better than doom haha played by more people" are useless), a hack and slash to overtake devil may cry etc. So better have a good story, because gameplay is gonna be the same as other 6 gorrillion games in that genre

>>378418623
Different strokes for different folks

>>378421061
>So better have a good story, because gameplay is gonna be the same as other 6 gorrillion games in that genre
But that is holding the industry back, senpai.

>>378418623
a good story is only necessary if the gameplay cannot hold the game up by itself, and if the gameplay can hold the game by itself then the story shouldnt be a focused factor
on the flip side, bad story can easily damage a game that has incredible gameplay
theres a lot of variance based on the genre of game too, like the rpgs vs fps and the rest so its all really a matter of perspective rather than one true opinion

Depends entirely on what the developer of the game is intending to make. Even without going for games like Gone Home or other "walking sims", a story is expected in a JRPG because it's generally part of what people playing those games want. A story isn't necessary expected in an online shooter because that's not what people are there for.

There is no reason to have any other stance on this discussion than this.

>>378421168
Besides a few unique mechanics, the gameplay remain tried and true and I don't think much is gonna change anytime soon, unless you believe in the revolutionary unique gameplay your kickstarter promises.

>>378421397
I don't, but expecting stories to be enough to carry a game all but stalls the interest in vidya.

Just like some movies are more about the visuals than the story and some are more about the story and the visuals, games can be whatever they like as long as it's a compelling experience. There are no rules.

In videogames Gameplay >>>> Story.

If I want a good story I just read a book or watch a movie.

A good story in videogames is always welcomed.

>>378418910
Underrated post
Porn with no context is the equivalent of slapping to pair meat pieces with each other

That line of thinking views "story" in games in an extremely limited sense, as though games were movies.

However, if you discard the idea of a story strictly as walls of text or cutscenes, you'll quickly realize that there is and can be much more to video game stories than that. Environmental storytelling, emergence etc.

Let's consider strategy games like Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis or whatever: A narrow-minded view would claim these games don't even have a story but if you look at why people typically play these games, it's not for competition (most players don't touch multiplayer), the challenge (after the initial learning curve everyone and their mother is painting map to their colours) or any such things but "for the story": the rise and fall of empires, heroic last stands, memorable characters etc. The features that enable these greentext-worthy narratives don't manifest on their own by chance, it takes deliberate efforts from the developers. Wouldn't it be appropriate to consider that a form of storytelling, in form that actually fits the medium?

I'll ignore environmental storytelling for now because it should be obvious for everyone but now that we're on topic of strategy games, there's another game I'd like to discuss. Emergence and player-created (through framework that authors put there) stories are one thing, but video games can also have pre-determined stories structured in a manner unique to the medium. For example, a game like Dominions doesn't have any story campaigns or anything of the sort but through structure provided by its mechanics (such as division of factions to three separate ages) all the fluff transforms to a story about the history of the setting.

Indeed, in a certain kind of ideal "story" and "gameplay" are one and the same thing. I'd hardly consider that "not that important", and a thematic game with great potential for emergence is far richer than a game that pays no heed to story (or does it in misguided movie-like way).

>>378420302
If you can't appreciate a game for it's gameplay, maybe video games aren't the right hobby for you.

>>378420412
How does it feel to be such a faggot that you are actually capable of caring about a cringey movie story?
Same thing newfag

A story in porn really helps the fantasy but is ultimately useless without the fucking.

Ergo, a story in a video game really helps with the immersion but it ultimately useless without the fucking gameplay.

>>378421905
Movies and games aren't comparable mediums in the slightest dipshit. Passive mediums cannot be compared to interactive mediums. You wouldn't compare a videogame to a book the same way you wouldn't compare a board game to a book.

>>378418623
Thank god
Dark Souls and Bloodborne follow this formula

You don't need a shitty ass story in gameplay heavy games, it just feels so boring and forced

Thats why i hate RPGs
Witcher 3 is the only exception

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>>378418623
A good dev can do both and erotic movies are better than pure porn.

>>378421803

I aggree with this. IF we get more "storytelling" via gameplay (Rim World, Roguelikes etc.) Im totally ok with it since its gameplay centric. But shit like unskipable cutscenes or the last example, bayonetta. Where the story is forced, fuck that.

Nier is the only good story in the history of video games.

>>378421925
Deadly Premonition has utter shitty gameplay and the story is the sole reason why people play it. Explain dis

>>378421803
Besides, while certain degree of context is required even in porn (say, rape fetishists won't get off from merely watching a phallus going in and out of orifices and any mention of rape being in the title, they probably want to see the girl scared and struggling), there's only one work of pornography in which I haven't completely skipped the "story bits" (that being Bible Black). Conversely, I'm often very engaged in video game storytelling (in manners I described, the games that generally get praised for their storytelling on the other hand I tend to find sickening even).

>>378422028
Movies, books and games AR comparable, and have been forever

>>378422201
My man

>>378422424
No, they're not because they're fundamentally different mediums. You are literally comparing apples to oranges when you compare interactive mediums to passive mediums
>B-B-BUT ONE TIME THIS GAME GOT A FAMOUS MOVIE STAR TO VOICE ACT AND ANOTHER TIME THIS GAME GOT AN ACTOR TO DO MOCAP SO THAT MEANS THEY'RE IN THE SAME LEAGUE!!! MUH STOOOOORYYYYYYYYY

>>378422279
sure, keep beliving that bait

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>>378418623
It entirely depends on what the game is supposed to be.

Doom is a simple game where you run around shooting demons with big ass guns.
You don't really need a complex story for that.
In fact, it might actually end up being a detriment.

System Shock on the other hand was a game that was deliberately slow and complex to create depth and atmosphere in service of it's interesting story.

His quote is also a greatly outdated mindset from an age where storage media were incredibly limited.
Having a long and in depth story often meant less space for gameplay. That's why most older story-heavy games are text-adventures.

Today we don't have these limitations anymore and there is absolutely no drawback to having a good story alongside the gameplay, unless you deliberately make it an arcade game.
It doesn't NEED to be there, but it's always an advantage.

For me personally, I need a good story because I want games to make me emotionally invested and immersed.
I don't care much for instant gratification shovelware.

There are more than enough examples of game series getting ruined because of shifting the focus to story. There has never been an example of a game series getting worse by focusing on gameplay.

>>378418623
A game should stand on its gameplay alone.
If a game has bad gameplay, it is automatically a bad game.

Story can however elevate the gameplay, make the events and engagements hold a lot more weight. This is more about context than pure story, but story still has a place.

>>378422752
The MGS games.

There are game franchises that are expected to give you a good (relatively to your regular game story). Those franchises emerged when there weren't enough tools to give the players exciting gameplay in their respective genre, and they are getting a free pass on a shitty gameplay.

For example I wouldn't be a fan of Fallout 1&2 if it wasn't for the setting and the story and things that don't create great gameplay like INT stat influencing your dialogue or skill checks giving you extra flavour and quest resolutions. The action point turn based combat - the Fallout's gameplay - was serviceable. I enjoyed it, but that's not why I played original fallout games.

This sentiment is also true to all the DnD games that were an adaptation of PnP RPGs that can hardly be described as having anything to do with good gameplay. In this respect action RPGs do a better job at providing enjoyable experience. RPGs like BG made up for their gameplay flaws with all the things they get praise for.

That's in my opinion the source of quite cancerous opinion that story is more important (that some people still believe). It's not valid anymore in this day and age. Nowadays a 'good' game story isn't hard to come by, good and fresh/innovative gameplay is.

That being said the original Carmack quote is trash tier, since games absolutely can be used to deliver a good story.

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>>378422279
>Today I've hear a rumor of a /v anon shitposting so ironically he can easily travel between layers of the Plane of the Irony

updated my journal

A game that would use its own medium to tell a story would be a complete landmark in the industry. A game that has truly mastered that hasn't yet come out but theres moment-to-moment examples of stuff like that in games. For example, the player having to kill The Boss in MGS3 makes the scene a hundred times better, while at the same time in Nier Automata the death of 9S is just a cutscene with no input from the player.

Its about time devs realized that focusing on either gameplay or story is a mistake and combine them together intelligently.

A good story can add to a game's quality but it should never be the most important thing.

Gameplay that is INTERACTIVITY is the one thing which other forms of entertainment media do not have. It's what differentiates games from movies, books, etc.

If you take away the gameplay then you are just looking at a movie.

>>378418623
why was it great? because it appealed to your schema?

>>378422527
While games began with gameplay, nowadays every major developer goes towards the story as the game's main point, minus multiplayer oriented games like CoD
Movies, books and games are comparable, if you let your narrowed mind do it

>>378422771
Should be able to*

>>378422752
MGS, Mass Effect, Witcher to a lesser degree

>>378423036
>Mass Effect

3 didn't have a final boss because it was too "video gamey"

>>378422945
Because it was an actual debate, and not sperglords sperging.

>>378422895
>. A game that has truly mastered that hasn't yet come out but theres moment-to-moment examples of stuff like that in games
First Bioshock Andrew Ryan bit and Brothers: tale of two sons come to mind as games that use the fact of the protag being controlled by the player smartly.

>>378418623
I like the soup analogy better. "Playing a game for the story is like eating soup for the spoon"

I won't eat soup for the spoon, but if the spoon is fucking rusty i'm gonna bitch.

>>378418623
>implying good story in porn doesn't make it even better

>>378423087
While on the other hand 2 forced an unnecessary boss down our throats. In general, Mass Effect shifted its interests in a bad way, story-wise the first one is still the best by far

>>378422895
That's just emergent gameplay and there's a couple examples that do it really well.

Space Station 13, for example.

The reason we don't see more of it is because this is incredibly hard to do in 3D compared to 2D and unfortunately games are all about graphics nowadays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLAHBexJxrE

People haven't been talking about chess for hundreds of years because of its story.

Story>Gameplay>Atmosphere>Music=Graphics

Story-focused games are for plebs that can't handle nor appreciate good gameplay.

>>378422752
The Final Fantasy games.

>>378423363
Story = atmosphere, you troglodyte. Noose yourself

>>378419127
>>378418861
We have a winner.

Videogames introduced input into a setting. You can't add your input into a movie or book, but you can in a game. Gameplay/Quality of Input is the greatest part of a videogame because without it, it would just be a movie.

Therefore, while a good story or audiovisual quality is quite important to make a good game, the biggest factor is and always will be gameplay.

>>378423337
TIL chess is a videogame

>>378423374
Gameplay-focused games are for plebs that can't handle nor appreciate a good story.

>>378423504
Nah

>>378423645
A game is a game nigger. The best ones speak for themselves without needing a story or graphics to draw you in, the rich gameplay is its own reward.

>>378423645
Explain how chess is not a game

>>378423145
>First Bioshock Andrew Ryan bi
The Would You Kindly thing is amazingly well done yes, but the cutscene where you smash ryan to bits really isn't. It would have been infinitely better once again if the player was doing it themselves.

>>378423809
Chess was innovative and has so much depth that people have been writing about it for centuries. The same can't be said for Candy Crush.

In truth most games fondly remembered after many years are because of their writing. In order for a game with only gameplay to offer to similarly stand the test of time it true must be very innovative in the mold of Chess or Super Mario 64. This post hit the nail on the head.

>>378421061

>>378423807
Not nah, prove me wrong then. I'm right.

Shit gameplay will always make a bad game but a shit story won't always make a bad game.

>>378423993
yes, I was rather talking to the bit after his death when the player has no choice but to do the atlas' bidding.

I thought that you also smash Ryan with the golf club "yourself" too, not in a cutscene. I played BS in 2008, it's a blur by now

>>378423504
Interacting with the story can be as important as gameplay mechanics and even more in some rpgs.

>>378423726
There are books and movies for that, story-focused "games" are for retards with ADD that can't handle a good book but at the same time can't handle good gameplay.

>>378424302
Yes, I didn't imply that. >>378424176

A good story is essential for certain genres like Adventure Games, say Gabriel Knight. But a good story is not essential to games like DOOM. However, good gameplay tailored to those genres is essential for both because it's your "UI" for the game, it's how you interact. A game should always strive to be efficient and FUN, tailored to the game and it's mechanics and quirks. A game with bad gameplay will only frustrate and put people off. The moment a game becomes a chore is the moment the game fails to be "good", and this is solely through it's gameplay quality.

Depends on the genre. Eod.

>>378419009
That is something only someone who does not even read books would say.

And he is legendarily autistic, the actual kind of autistic, not /v/ autistic, so his personal opinion on story, when he is only known for his technical work on 2 games without story, is irrelevant.
Just like stephen king´s opinion on gameplay vs. story is irrelvant.

>>378424193
Yeah its a cutscene. That part right after is one of the better things about the game yeah

>>378418623
I think he's right to some degree. You can have an amazing story for your game, but without the gameplay to back it up, you're not going to be able to tell it efficiently.

>>378423993
no that scene was fine
it shows the depth of the conditoning on the PC
after all youre playing as a PC not actually in bioshock land

>>378424784
Well yes, but thats again just watching a movie. Having the player do it would show the same exact thing you're talking about WHILE having the medium do its job
Theres a time and place for cutscenes but I really don't feel that was one such occasion

>>378423816
I said videogame you dumb testicle

>>378423645
>TIL
back to plebbit

>>378420351
"I think fallout 4 has good gameplay", the post.

I think for me personally I like how games like Diablo do it.
There is a story and you can dive deep into the lore and learn and read for hours and it can really expand your time with the game, but you can also just kinda ignore all of it, and just play for the pure fun of the gameplay without getting lost.
just for reference, I'm not talking about that single game in particular, I just think it perfectly encapsulates what I try to say

>>378418623
>taking words of a high functioning autismo that is good at coding as gospel

You can't be this fucking stupid, right? Have you fucking read Masters of Doom? This man wouldn't know a good fucking story if it hit him in the face, of course he can't see any value in it.

>>378423337
On the other hand, just yesterday I talked with a person who said they couldn't get into Go because it's "too abstract". This admittedly achieves only the most basic level of "story" (some sort of context, in this case clash of armies) but I don't think Chess would have as much appeal for nearly as many people if instead of kings and pawns you had triangular pieces and tetrahedrons. Indeed, even in more abstract Go we project narrative to the game: instead of having "local variations", you have "fights" etc. not to mention how the game can be an emotional roller coaster in which the opponent has the initiative (sente) but then you manage to turn things around. Stories is what humans want.

Moreover, while there's something to be said about heavily abstract games like Tetris, that doesn't seem to be what electronic games are good at.

Besides, like I've mentioned previously, games don't need to (and in my view outright shouldn't) be wanna-be movies. Think about the "story" in Chess I mentioned and turn it to eleven. Instead of playing out a battle between kings, suppose you had an epic clash of civilizations spanning aeons with combined lore and history of mankind as its backdrop. Or, instead of the game telling a story of two powers accumulating power, clashing once in a decisive battle and one party emerging victorious, suppose it was more like Go with fights erupting and subduing, changes in initiative, dynamic positions etc. Perhaps it actually IS their potential for (emergent) stories why games like Chess and Go have been around for millenia, with games of equal or greater complexity and skill being forgotten in history because the stories they tell don't engage us.

>>378423645
>TIL
lurk more and don't you dare post until you know how the board works.

>>378423268
Even the first feels incredibly dumb and absolutely pointless, once you discover what the conduit actually is and how basically everything it allowed Saren to do was teleport to the public park area on the citadel from a remote location, and he only lost his general access to the ENTIRE citadel simply because he commited some war crimes while searching for the conduit

>>378418623
You can have next to no story and have a good game, but can't have next to no gameplay and have a good game. I agree with that point.

However, if you're going to put lots of story into your game, that story really needs to be good.

To use the porn analogy, a porn movie which does a few minutes of story before the action can get away with a terrible story. A porn movie which is 75% story wouldn't be able to.

>>378425397
Yeah, I go to reddit as well as 4chan. What a shock, eh?

>>378425987
Life's hard
Also I'll keep posting whenever I want, thanks senpai

>>378426102
And it's still way better than 2, 3 and Andromeda together

>>378423504
this
fortunately "good gameplay" is largely subjective, which is how some people can like a game like dear esther while I find it to be absolutely fucking terrible
just play the games you like

>>378426851
Never ever reply to me again

File: 1455184371134.jpg (147KB, 512x512px) Image search: [Google]

147KB, 512x512px

>>378418623
If that's true, why didn't Doom consist entirely of untextured cubes?

>>378428519
Okay, I won't

>>378422414
>Not watching mario salieri porn
Are you 16?