Can people define pay to win?

when you pay you win lmao it aint hard bb

Every F2P game, except for Dota 2

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>>378365284
Good point anon, if you don't see an "You Win! :^)" screen after paying for an item the game is not "pay to win"

Thank you for clarifying, mods you may lock this thread as it has been answered.

>>378365219
>Usually the person you are arguing with calls you a troll and stops replying

Yes, because you are making (intentional?) logical fallacy called False Equivalence.

>pretending to be retarded but playing it straight
>not actually being retarded
what is this, amateur hour?

>>378365532
Its good to know that we have a set of big words that can determine if a person is wrong

>>378365284
fpbp.

>>378365728
Because you don't debate flawed arguments, you just point out that they are flawed. And yes, it makes you wrong because it's flawed.

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>>378365219
>"all games are pay to win"
>uses an MMO for an example

>>378366146
what other game type has players stupid enough to play a game where cash or time determines player ability

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>>378365219
Did you even read your own post? How the fuck do you derive the conclusion that all games are pay to win from the premise you started with?

Most games don't sell anything other than cosmetics in their cash shops.

>giving paying players access to something that gives them an advantage while denying non-paying players access to the same feature.

This is a good definition, it should just be changed from denying to gating.

Pay to win has become a spectrum; not every pay-to-win game involves paying money for the sword of 1000 truths. Games like League, where you can pay to unlock characters or grind to unlock them, are also pay-to-win, but much less egregious. We generally accept that, if a game is free, there will be trade-offs in terms of accessibility. Nevertheless, having access to more heroes or cards or whatever else is an undeniable advantage that paying players will have over free players (counterpicking, etc), even if the free players can eventually gain access to the same. At that point, it's down to personal judgement whether you consider that worth your time or money.

I played League for 6 years, with easily several hundred hours, and was probably only ~3/4 of the way to unlocking everything. I also had a lot of advantages in that regard because I'd been playing since beta and took advantage of every promotion I could to get free characters, rune pages, etc. For the average F2P player, they can't possibly hope to compete with a P2P's of similar skill who can flex pick much more freely.

Paid level boosts that give you an instant high level character with all previous progression content flagged as cleared are pay to win.

You're paying for level ups, which require you to win within quests, battles, and dungeons that can in theory be failed and are failed by some players. You're also paying to have mandatory content flagged as if you've beaten it and this is, again, content that can be failed and is failed.

I'm ready for the S-E FFXIV drones and Blizzard WoW drones to come at me with their fallacies that try to twist what it means to win.

>>378366257
then say "all MMO's are pay to win" not "all games".

>>378365219
The game isn't denying anything to non-paying players you retard, it's simply giving them more obstacles to get what they want but they can still technically gain those items with patience.

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>>378366340
>I played League for 6 years, with easily several hundred hours, and was probably only ~3/4 of the way to unlocking everything.

You raise a good point anon, I think we should append "or adding grind times that are longer than the expected lifespan of an average person" to the definition.

League of legends is an example of a great game as it only requires 10 years of grind to unlock everything, this leaves the person with 60 years to enjoy their unlocks.
Some games require a minimum of 50 years to unlock all the content through game play but of course they are not pay to win due to the average life expectancy being more than 50 years

>>378365219
What? all games are pay to win because P2P mmos exist?