Why did the RTS genre die?

>>378236393
Cancerous MOBAfags

WarCraft IIII will bring it back.

Caters to autist fags

oversaturation and stagnation,
back in the day rts games were released non-stop and the grand majority were painfully similar and had low production values
that's why games like warcraft 2/3 and the c&c series stood out

devs also just straight up didn't do anything new
it was the same shit over and over
you get tired of doing the same shit over and over

>>378236393
Did it, though? Gaming was small time back then. Do they still push similar numbers as they did back in the early aughts? Was it really alive to begin with?

>>378236774
Not to mention they weren't very fun to play.

>>378236393

mobas

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>>378236723
>IIII
>"i-i-is this a good bait??????"
Fuck off.

>>378236468
>>378236858
kek

This is what RTS fans """"""""actually""""""" believe

Why can't you nostalgia ridden neckbeards face it?
RTS died because it WAS FUCKING BORING
NOBODY likes autistic micromanaging, needing 9000 APM to do anything, competing with Korean NEETS all the time

Games are supposed to be FUN
RTS failed in that simple category

THAT is why the genre died

>>378236393
They were only popular because of multiplayer which was still just a novelty back then.

>>378236393
Today's children dont have patience.
RTS aren't good for people who want instant gratification either.

>>378236975
RTS are way more skilled than any other genre ever.
You'll fucking, NEVER EVER play an harder game than the first Starcraft.
You fucking casual shitters.

boring rote memorization and fags like >>378236468

>>378236938
What the fuck is this from?

>>378236975
>RTS died because it WAS FUCKING BORING
>NOBODY likes autistic micromanaging, needing 9000 APM to do anything, competing with Korean NEETS all the time
>Games are supposed to be FUN
>RTS failed in that simple category
So basically you think that only one thing can be fun, and all games need to be the same?

I'm sorry but making/learning strategies, timing, etc. is damn fun.

Also >>378237094

*clicks and hit camera hotkeys really fast*
im so skilled

>>378236938
It is called Warcraft IIII

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will you be playing scr? i know i will spectate it at least.

>>378237376
>what is IV

Lack of new ideas, shift in tastes from the general audience, stagnation, failed attempts by certain high profile franchises to innovate in the wrong way, and it being niche to begin with.

You can blame MOBAs, esports or SC2 all you want, but there are legitimate reasons to why RTS has declined over the years.

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Real men play FPS because they like to be down in the action and fight for themselves

Cowards play RTS so they can sit back and watch tiny dots battle each other


You cannot refute this

>>378237321
Its funny because I think the same for FPS.
*move camera and click fast*
*people die before me because I moved faster*
wow such skill

But yes, I dont play fps because the only thing that matters is your hand/eye coordination. With rts you actually need to learn a lot of things about the game, not just the maps

Because it never changed, and also, people became more lazy overall as time progressed.

>>378236393
Casuals overtook the market.

>>378236393
Am I full of shit or was there a moment when there were way more people in WCIII lobbies playing DOTA than there were actually playing WCIII?

Focused on micro/e-sports instead of strategy.

>>378236393
skill ceiling too high, cant blame teammates when you lose because game is usually balanced against 1v1s, difficult to monetize, developers got lazy and didnt put out quality products because assfaggotmoobas are way easier to make

You can't make a fast responsive RTS in 3D and still give it good graphics

>>378236393
Because the genre turned into gookclick

>>378236393
Starcraft II was shit, same with Supcom 2 and CaC 4

>>378236723
>IIII
American education, everyone.

>RTS games
>melee units attack building
>building start burning

???

People expect a very high level of quality of RTS games nowadays since games following a more tradtional RTS formula like SC2 and AoE2 exist and do it very well, so a large investment would be needed and anything new would have to be pretty unique in how it works to make people who aren't just playing older games or related genres interested in RTS again

>>378236816
I was able to find Rise of Nation and WC3 games faster than I can cutlrrently find a game in LoL/DotA/OW. I would say it was fairly alive.

>>378237634

No you arent full of shit. Last few years of that game was all dota pretty much.

It's too casual-unfriendly to be successful. Entire genre is predicated on cornerstones of practice and multitasking. Not to mention a skill barrier required to even have the chance not to be wrecked without 5 minutes is much larger than any other game. Imagine someone clueless playing a game of Starcraft these days. This is not something normies wanna do after a hard day at work. They want to play Souls or Overwatch to shoot lasers and swing swords.

>>378237903
Not in cossacks

>>378237914
that could just mean there has been changes to match making

it was fun until chinkclicking and meta fags ruined pvp

Oversaturation really, that and aside from the Warcraft series, C&C, DoW and CoH, every other game made was a Starcraft clone

Its the same shit that happened with the whole "modern warfare" fps craze, just happened a few years earlier than it

>>378236975
Somebody got fucked up the ass by militia

>>378236393

It didn't die per se, there's still the occasional RTS game coming out. It's golden days are long gone though.

Look out for Sudden Strike 4. I sometimes shill for it, because I appreciate what the series (1 and 2 at least) do: most RTS focus on base building and gathering supplies which allows you to infinitely spawn units like from a factory. This means the one who's aware of the quickest build order wins. In Sudden Strike you have to actually be strategic, and make do with the units given or captured. It's a slower, and to me more enjoyable play.

>>378236393
There was a point in gaming where realism had advanced to a point where it got really hard to make a top down game with proper graphics and unit scale and still look believable.

Basically post 2007 engines didn't work well with RTS or so it seemed. Tactical and Moba games found a way around it.

>>378237162
>You'll fucking, NEVER EVER play an harder game than the first Starcraft.

Please...

>>378237429
Retards play FPS because they like to die in action and fight for the eternal jew

High IQ alpha males play RTS so they can sit back and command the retards who signed up for war to the slaughter

Because RTS devs think all they need to do is just vomit a vague group of ingredients into a bowl, stir it a bit and they have a game. They don't have a game, they have a vomited group of ingredients.

What new thing are you bringing to the table that wasn't seen like a billion times before? Literally every RTS game is stuck in the fucking 1997, the genre had its Starcraft and its Age of Empires and Shogun Total War, and everything since that comes with literally no innovation whatsoever

> We have units, terrains and base building
So Dune 2? 1992. Quarter of a fucking century. Next.

> Uuuuuh we have line of sight
Act of War. 2005. You're twelve years behind. Next.

> Well the campaign map has this innovative--
C&C2. XCOM. Next.

> We have this innovative system of victory where it's not annihilation
And yet you designed your shitty system so that a skirmish still takes 30-40 minutes on average and you still need to have 2000APM to accomplish the goal. Why? Because warcraft and starcraft took that long. Next.

> There is economy and macro
So now players have to go with some stale meta to understand the shitty and unintuitive economy systems; or, deal with your idea of workers collecting your idea of resources

> There is combat that is really interesting
No there isn't. There are stacks of units shooting at each other until one, smaller, stack of units remains, usually the one that was larger or the one whose composition of units was in a slightly more fortuitous position or herded with better micro than the other guy's. Next.

> Our combat has [insert mechanic here]
Repeat after me: damage types and armour types promote nothing but rock/paper/scissor mechanics, which is artificial complexity and not fun. And yes we fucking KNOW pikemen are good against cavalry.

> There are RPG elements
You mean there are 89435 numbers that pop up on the screen and you get XPs to increase some of these numbers so that when they shoot larger numbers pop up above enemy units.

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>>378236393

it didn't die

it transformed in the moba genre because they stopped making good RTS

prove me wrong

you literally can't

>>378237429
>tfw my apm too high for this bait

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>>378238032
This.

When RTS games became ultra competitive like fighting games, there are only shitters and pros left playing after a month. You're either completely stomping dumbasses or getting steamrolled by autists.

It's not fun at all.

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>>378236723
> IIII

Stagnation mostly. RTS hasn't evolved since Dune and nobody seems to be pushing the bar in any direction. You either get things like Starcraft 2 that only a Korean could enjoy because it pushes menial APM over strategy and wit or you get something like DoW3 where it tries to be different while being exactly the same but worse.

RTT is where it's at, although those are even more dead.

>>378237168
some jorodowsky movie I bet

>>378238517
>>378238158
You're saying like other videogames progressed by leaps and bounds.
FPS hardly changed since Half-Life, some acquired cancerous stats and ironsights, but there's no principal difference between Doom and D44M
RPG degenerated if anything
The only genre to sort of grow is third person action

It's dead to casuals because there's easier games to play now, like fighting games.

>>378236393
Literally Gen Z poorfags putting all their eggs into the free MOBA basket

>>378237168
The Holy Mountain

>>378236393
Competition ruined them.

They should have focused on interesting campaign scenarios.

>>378236975
>"My favorite video games are better than yours!"

>>378238843
>but there's no principal difference between Doom and D44M
I hear the austistic shrieking of .wad connoisseurs from over here already

>>378238517
I am not done.

> Gives you a sense of command and control
Gives my festering jaded dick a sense of failure and disappointment. Literally unit stacks melting other unit stacks, you could replace all the units with beans and all the buildings with bean dispensers and get the same basic fucking gameplay, this shit is so incredibly fucking vapid and nowhere near resembling actual warfare or whatever the fuck you want it to resemble

> We have good controls over the units
Ask yourself: does a high APM Korean have an advantage over a sluggish player in your game? Then it is not a real time strategy game, it is a real time fucking 3rd person shooter where you happen to be controlling a large number of protagonists at once. Fuck off.

> We have decent tools to enable map control, units are not meat shields, we reward flanking and positioning, you can change the terrain, and we have unique mechanics such as suppression, armour facing, retreats, or charge/morale mechanics that almost resemble a proper battle, and the economy is either on the strategic map or is innovative and requires map control.
Oh, sorry, Company of Heroes and Rome: Total war, I didn't see you there. You are cool and may pass but HOLY SHIT IT HAS BEEN A DECADE NOW and there is still nothing new on the horizon what the fuck get your shit together devs.

>>378236393
The problem really isnt "why did X die".

The problem is that 1% of the games have 99% of the players. Without CS:GO, Dota, League, Overwatch and similiar titles we would have so many more populated games.

>>378236393
>Why did the RTS genre die?
It was hijacked by RTS/RPG hybrids and died out because MOBAs with AI controlled mooks are more fun.

>>378238843
You are 100% correct, but at least there are 100s of FPSs coming out every year, unlike RTS games. Lots of studios churning them out, some of them are bound to be good, and all it takes is a minor tweak to make the good ole fun gunplay, well, fun again.

Whereas for RTS there is like 3 companies (Creative Assembly, Relic and Blizzard) and literally nothing else. Relic is dropping the ball hard, CA is busy reskinning Rome:Total War for the 15th time (this time with lizardmen) instead of fixing the bugs with the engine, and Blizzard doesn't care since they are drowning in Overwatch money.

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>Try playing multiplayer in a RTS
>Everyone abuses the same couple broken "strategies" to win in 5 minutes
>Only possible way to counter said "strategies" is to do the exact same thing

I love RTS but it just isn't fun.

Maybe someday a new RTS will come out with good AI that doesn't cheat but isn't piss easy to beat in the skirmish mode.

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>>378239029

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shitters can't git gud

wc3 was for shitters who got BTFO'd at sc

dota was for shitters who got BTFO'd at wc3

>>378239429
You know what I want more than (You)s? A good, modern RTS game that isn't same old shit and is fun to play and has no moba elements.

Did they?
It's just a niche genre as it technically always was (less people played videogames in general in 2000). There are lots of successful games with cult followings - Dwarf Fortress, Rimworld, Factorio, Total War games

>>378239537
t. bronze player with platinum game knowledge

>>378236393
Because you can take your annoying as fuck controls and shove it up your ass.

>>378236723
Warcraft IVX*

>>378239734
Sure. DoW3 is the game :^)

>>378236975
this right here

>>378236723
>WarCraft IIII
are you retarded?
its called warcraft VI

The rise of mobile and the decline of PC

>>378240130
retard, its called warcraft LU

>>378239734
I want a CoH-type tactics game with fully 3D environments that you see through in cross-section

like if you have a map that's a skyscraper you can scroll up and down and everything above your view level will vanish, and units can move naturally through these environments (a stair is just a geometrical ramp, not some teleporter)

I think it could be cool as fuck, the setting should be some blame!-type megastructure so you can really have any map geometry you'd desire

>>378240002
Warcraft IVX'mst've*

>>378240150
Yeah Im sure Candy Crush saga and Farmville really hurt the RTS genre

>>378240130
>>378237872
>>378237168
>They don't know about the next entry in the series, Warcraft: Intimidating Infernal Indigo Incantations

>>378236975
I bet you also play Call of Duty

There was absolutely nothing to innovate. The genre baisacly become extremely stale and people got sick of it.

we've exhausted the genre

>>378240404
Is it a crossover with Touhou?

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>>378237381
i like sc1 hydralisks better than the sc2 redesign desu

i miss c&c man...

>>378240725
>hydralisks obviously spit acid
>no actually they shoot spikes from their tails or something

what where they thinking

>>378236975
people will believe this

>>378240531
even if we've exhausted the design of the genre you could still make fucking supcom clones with better everything (more units more unit types better artstyle more races etc)

and I really doubt the design is exhausted considering some of the most innovative games came just when RTS really took a hit, that's just plain improbable

>>378240995
well you could but you'd lose money

>>378240852
Their attack was called "Needle Spine" from the first day the game came out 20 years ago senpai

>>378241181
yeah cause rts has declined
not because all the great games that could be made have been

>>378237903
In Age of Empires 3 soldiers throw torches when attacking buildings

>>378240852
There attack was always needle spines. It's just that in the first game it looked a lot cooler. Everything did in fact.

RTS is like baseball, if you don't know the game already there's zero surface-level fun for you. We live in the era of streaming and mass appeal, FPS and MOBAs have very simple concepts of "blue guys shoot at red guys", while with RTS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuV5j0Yy19k
someone uninitiated int he game just sees a bunch of randomly flipping images.

>>378236393
because RTS "fans" only want to moan about shit rather than play games

>>378241392
>>378241829
I know but it looked green and had a splash sound

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>>378240995
Just having more stuff could actually be part of the problem. Starcraft had like 11-13 units per faction, and Total Annihilation had, what, 70 or so?

RTS games need to focus on easing the control freak aspect. Units can't fart without you, and as long as that happens the games will only cater to APMfags. Which, to be fair, exist, but are far from a wide audience that an RPG or an FPS can muster.

MOBAs are basically descendents of RTS games, except you control 1 entity instead of an entire army. And they are literally the most popular genre on the planet right now. That doesn't mean they are good, but it does mean there is a way for RTSs to appeal to a mass audience, and requiring 6 additional tentacles to be a competitive player is not the way to do it.

I have no idea how this could be achieved - some of the very early RTSs (Dark Reign, Total Annihilation, Dominion Wars or whatever it was called) had detailed "stance" toggles and other automation features that decided what your units would do if they encounter the enemy etc. This is not exactly what I have in mind, but they were a step in the right direction.

>>378236393
>needs attention
>commonly needs thinking
>you need to know strategies and counter when playing competitively
>That includes microing, BUILD ORDERS
>most of the time action's not quick, not "dynamic"
>you don't have any character to associate with (well, most of the time)
Also this >>378241913

>>378241913
Are you kidding? You're right about FPS, but how the fuck is military warfare less understandable than fucking assfaggots?

>>378236468
Why do you people keep saying this? MOBAs are a subset of roleplaying games, not strategy games. The only thing the two have in common is that the first MOBA was a custom map for an RTS/RPG hybrid game, and that was with all RTS factors removed.

>>378242490
more units around

Why are RTS thread on /v/ so fucking shit?
There is always blatantly wrong shit being spouted everywhere by "people" who are so inept at them they probably don't even use hotkeys
It's like people complaining about quarter circles in a fighting games thread

What are some essential RTS?
I have WC3, AoE 3, AoM, Supreme Commander, Kane's Wrath, and Sins of a Solar Empire and Soulstorm

also, how the fuck do I get good at total anniliation/supreme commander? it's so different than what the usual base building RTS

>>378242536
>moba
>roleplaying

>>378242575
>Why are RTS thread on /v/ so fucking shit?
because a lot of people first started playing RTS as little kids and all they did was build a 'cool' base with army dudes and completely ignored what RTS is really about

>>378242697
Go for some Red Alert, either the original or the second is good. There's a FOSS remake of the original, it's alright.

>>378238517
>>378239029
this guy comes off as a huge asshole, but he's absolutely right.

when you think about it, the last RTS that actually came with innovations and improvements to the genre that hadn't been done before was supreme commander. and that game released 10 fucking years ago!
>strategic zoom
>dynamically modifiable command queues
>actually meaningful land, navy and air units
and most of that just died off, nobody adopted it, and other devs just kept shitting out starcraft clones.

>>378241913
>doesn't even look/control the combat half the time
Starcraft is such a scrub game. Shit like that would get your instantly destroyed in WC3

>>378242768
You control a single character gains XP, levels up, becomes stronger and gains new spells/items. It's literally team based PvP RPGs.

>>378242768
If not RPG, then what? Action game, H&S? It's not a strategy game because you control only 1 unit (if you say "there's meta strategy" I'll bash ur hed m8, probably every multiplayer game has "strategy" in that sense). It hurts me a little when people associate MOBAs with RTSes.

Want me to host something on MakeMeHost?
UtherParty at 4PM EST (20 minutes)
Gamename: Fajjits

>>378242697
Warlords battlecry serie

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>>378239092
People that exclusively play those games wouldn't play RTS or other niche genres if their games went away. They'd just stop gaming or play something similar.

This has been proven by people trying to kill WoW before and the state of the MMO genre as WoW has declined. WoW wasn't master of the MMO audience, the "MMO audience" was actually just the WoW audience.

>>378242979
counter strike is more of an RPG since you can choose between being the good and the bad guy

>>378243047
moba
there is more strategy than roleplaying in it
just because a game has numbers in it, its not an rpg

but I concede to avoid derailing the thread, dota is a great rpg

>>378242697
Company of Heroes my friend. Also if your rig is not potato tier get the sequel, after 5 years of tinkering finally it resembles the greatness of the first one, and it is often on sale.

>>378243239
i liked galaxies before wow , dunno what the hell i played before swg (no memories but i'm sure i played something)

>>378238663
who is this semen demon

>>378243291
>just because a game has numbers in it, its not an rpg
it is get with the times grandpa

The RTS genre is dead because people try too hard to innovate and introduce various gimmicks instead of giving us a good old fashioned RTS game.

What was the last RTS game with no bullshit like hero units, no basebuilding, normal resource gathering and not the bullshit map control points, AoE3 deck faggotry and other grinding bullshit like that, etc?

The now seven year old Starcraft 2?

>>378242697
Risky comment: what about Wargame series? Men of War?
Anno series is a economic RTS, Dungeons (2) is a DM lookalike... I don't think they count
So sad there aren't many innovative RTSes anymore.
Rise of the Reds is going stronk even if C&C Generals is old

>>378243291
>just because a game has numbers in it, its not an rpg
If all those numbers are related to one character you control than it's RPG

>>378243449
>Starcraft
>no basebuilding
What is this idiot talking about

>>378243449
http://store.steampowered.com/tag/en/Strategy/#tag%5B%5D=1676&p=0&tab=TopSellers

>>378243449
>no basebuilding
>Starcraft 2
Uh, choose one.
Grey Goo, Act of Aggression

>>378243449
>Starcraft 2
Most of my friends never played Starcraft but played AoE3. Few people outside Worst Korea love APM microautism.

>>378243291
I guess Witcher series aren't RPG games since you don't play as your own OC character then.

>>378243369
I'm not saying there's no MMO market. Shit I started with Ultima Online and played tons of the "WoW killers". WAR, Aion, AoC, etc. I was part of the actual MMO market and when new shit came out it was clear how relatively small it actually was compared to what companies thought it was based off WoW's numbers.

I'm just saying that the vast majority of the market share people compete with WoW for were never going to play anything but WoW and I think that applies to many genres across all platforms. A CoD fiend or a DOTA afficionado aren't going to randomly start playing StarCraft because CoD dies.

>>378236975
this 2bh RTS are dead because Dota likes are more fun and better.

BTW, if you want some very different RTS, check out Original War (it's 16 years old, but still good IMO).

>>378243635
>castle story is still not fucking out of EA

>>378243626
No bullshit like (...) no basebuilding, meaning no basebuilding is the bullshit and SC2 is a game that doesn't do that kind of bullshit.

>>378241913
why does he keep clicking his probes over and over and over and over?

>>378243684
I am not sure what you think I implied

>>378243838
ADHD.

It's a prerequisite for SC pros.

>>378243838
Pros prefer to play entire matches on one speed so there is no intensity spike when shit hits the fan.

>>378243838
keeping his hands warm

Warcraft 3 Duel of the Ancients was a mistake
fuck mobas

>>378236393
Too niche and too stagnant, with one usually feeding into the other (i.e. the autistic fans unwilling to let go of base-building and resource farming)

>>378243070
HOSTED
WHO UP

>>378243449
>What was the last RTS game with no bullshit like hero units, no basebuilding, normal resource gathering and not the bullshit map control points, AoE3 deck faggotry and other grinding bullshit like that, etc?
>The now seven year old Starcraft 2?

8-bit Armies ('16), 8-bit Hordes ('16), 8-bit Invaders ('16), Cossacks 3 ('17), Act of Aggression ('15), Grey Goo ('15), Planetary Annihilation (earlier),...

All bog-standard boring old RTS games almost no one bothered with because people are tired of doing the same shit over and over again.

Meanwhile, the RTS games that did have success were Comapny of Heroes 2, Wargame series and the like. Games that make something different and don't just make a Dune 2 clone.

>>378240531
the FPS genre was exhausted long before and look at that

>>378242697
>kane's wrath
RA2 and Tiberian Sun
C&C3 was terrible and everyone who says otherwise is bonkers

>>378242697
>also, how the fuck do I get good at total anniliation/supreme commander?

get forged alliance forever
check out some high level gameplay on youtube, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjkAwPiogFc
check the FAF forums, bunch of newbie help threads up on there

some general concepts:
>always put factories on infinite production
>don't cap out mass
>NEVER run out of energy
>use engineers to reclaim rocks and wrecks on the map for a lot of free mass
>spend lots of time zoomed out to see the entire map
>building more T1 mass extractors is A LOT better than upgrading your existing ones to T2

also the usual RTS shit:
map control wins games, scouting prevents dumb losses, overbuilding static defense is bad against competent opponents, turtling is suicide against competent opponents, etc

>>378244262
A I W A R : F L E E T C O M M A N D

>>378236393
Too challenging. People find it easier to just control one character.

>>378244187
lol

>>378244314
Everybody knows C&C3 is terrible, but Kane's Wrath easily redeemed it.

>>378244262
Its not really fair to complain literal indie retro pixel games with sequels to very popular titles made by popular studios.

>>378242697
DoW 1 and 2, computers are piss easy but the campaigns are really fun

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>>378242697
inb4 someone triggered bitches about it
If it triggers you so much, why not make your own?

>>378244585
How so? It hardly felt like an improvement to me.

>>378244627
he said soulstorm
speaking of AI, soulstorm has an AI mod

>>378244260
A-anyone?

>>378239816
>Dwarf Fortress, Rimworld, Factorio
Common thing about these games is that they basically play themselves. In Factorio you control one guy, in DF and Factorio you're an indirect manager who queues tasks. Classic RTS games where each individual unit is directly under control are too stressing for a modern player, also it's impossible to have a classic RTS on gamepad, meaning that this is a genre confined forever to PC crowd.

>>378244608
>Westwood is literal who but Eugene is a super-popular studio.

No, anon.
Petroglyph has been losing all of its goodwill making C&C clones at pretty high budget (Grey Goo cost a fuck-ton, that was no indie shit).
Meanwhile, Eugene went from being absolute nobodies who made R.U.S.E to one of the most revered RTS studios out there solely thanks to how popular Wargame was. Meanwhile, their completely traditional AoA has been left in the dust and now they're working on Steel Battalion, another game styled after Wargame and not expansions to its traditional sibling.

>>378244629
leave coh 2 alone faggot it's a good game now

>>378236393
Apart of MOBA and people copying SC, RTS games didn't evolve more, didn't try to do new things or tried to replace some of the tired tropes with something new. This combined with stagnation and the early 2000's being saturated left and right with RTS games is also something that contributed to this.

A good RTS should build its strength on the features that makes it unique in the first place. That and avoid other elements or use them in different ways.

Sadly it will never happen since people are too lazy and fearful to do something new.

>>378241995
I think it's a side effect of shooting those spines.

You know...those muscles also need some lubricants to make the spines move at massive speed.

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How are y'all enjoying the Testpunch? I really like it so far, but I had to switch to traditional controls after a few rounds.

what happened was starcraft 2. mobas filled a gap that was sadly vacant when starcraft 2 killed the rts genre. part of the success of brood war can be seen in dota 2 etc.

Unironically, MOBAs.

MOBAs killed the RTS and MMO genres.

>>378236393
because S in RTS became shadowed by APM
it's all about who can jerk off his keyboard faster now
>gather resources quickly
>create a deathball
>attack move on enemy base
that's all
it's also way too much resource focused, you spend more time on money management than actual fighting, which is donkey piss
Rise of Nations is nice though

>>378244924
I wish Petroglyph made UaW2, I want to stomp on people with factories again

>>378244964
>RTS games didn't evolve more, didn't try to do new things or tried to replace some of the tired tropes with something new

What is Supreme Commander. What is Company of Heroes. The real problem is that the companies that kept the genre alive went to shit for some reason.

>>378236975
t. buttblasted underageb&

>>378244809
People love Uther Party, right?

>>378244262
Most of these are actually pretty fucking good exactly because they didn't have bullshit.
The real thing is: 90% of RTS released these days are Sci-fi shit. If you look at the most played on steam you'll see that AoE2 and Cossacks 3 are at the top. People WANT fantasy/old historical settings again. We haven't got anything like this from a large developer in ages excluding Cossacks 3.
RTS is niche and Starcraft's numbers won't ever be matched but this doesn't mean the genre is dead.
It's just not as popular because it branched out. Strategy fags go with their 4X, competitive fags flock Dota/LoL and city building fags have plenty of games that focus exclusively on that. RTS itself suffers a big playerbase filter.

>>378244753
Not him, but you're a massive fucking faggot if you think KW is the same thing as C&C3

>>378242915
I think, the problem is not doing something new or innovative. Dev should focus on doing what have already be done but do it right.
Why do a Starcraft clone if it's not going to be as good ?

And what i found crazy is that with all the precedents games and with all those innovations like >>378238517 >>378239029 say it well, devs manage to fuck up some of those thing.

>>378244629
>wait for dawn of war 3 like the rest of us

;_;

>>378245190
>The real problem is that the companies that kept the genre alive went to shit for some reason.

Those that were forced to slave away on endless sequel chains of RTS games simply quit (Ensemble and Westwood both went out by strating a ton of non-RTS projects in hopes of being able to do something else), the one not forced to do sequels (Relic) got fucked up by the THQ going and getting stuck with SEGA, a sequel machine like no other.

There are no stable traditional studios left when you cross off these and for the most part, what killed them was the lack of room for innovation.

Playing is often taxing and not fun. RTS games aren't something you can play after a hard day at work - not that any of you fucking NEETS could relate - but something that takes consideration and effort. They might be objectively better and more challenging games but that is not what the largest demographic wants.

>>378245332
>strategyfucks
I like RTSes and 4Xes both, but I suffer because there isn't a game where you're concerned mostly about strategy and not tactical view, but without having to micromanage everything, apart from SupCom (which I suck at).
I'd love a game where units are like in RTSes, but instead of telling which unit to do what you'd rather tell whole... I don't have a word. Generally that you don't go everywhere and click on everything, but you stay on the map and plan mostly from there, but in some detail. If it was done using "commanders" of different sizes whom you'd teach manually how to do stuff (as in, you play against them, for example) and use them as "units".
>tfw nobody shares your autism

>>378245794
If it makes you feel any better, sometimes I use RTS's as God Games/Economy simulators
I had good times in WC3 post game by using the banshee to possess one peasant of each race

>>378244629
>there will never be an empire earth 4

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>>378245046

this doesn't make sense

unless you are a pro you don't see high apm in the game

are you a pro?


>create a deathball

it seems that you only played sc2 and you don't know that good RTS made by non retarded people (like warcraftIII SCBW) don't let you death ball

>you spend more time on money management than actual fighting

if you remove the economy part the game becomes completely focused on APM the thing you hate

unless you basically remove the real time part

people are too focused on the pro player and don't understand that there is no reason to play like them unless you want to be a pro too

>>378245306
I guess no one wants to play: That's why these threads die
People like to complain but never join a game

>>378244262
What's the deal with Grey Goo and Act.of Aggression? I've seen them on Steam but other than that I never heard anyone discuss them.

>>378246190
They're shit

>>378246190
Flavor of the week RTS games. The only got as much publicity as they did because hey, new RTS game. You love it or hate it, but no matter what you better be prepared to play with pals or the AI because it ain't got a booming online community. They both try to rock the boat and do something different which makes it love/hate depending if you want something new or more of the same with a different flavor.

>>378246190
completely forgettable games in every way

>>378246190
They're 1997 games with modern graphics except without the design talent that made the 1997 games good.

Act of Aggression is exactly what this thread is about. It has all the elements but it is incredibly boring to play.

>>378245046
>>create a deathball
>>attack move on enemy base
you play like shit and if you can beat people with this they are even more shit than you, this doesn't prove anything

The true answer is that most RTS games are boring.

The only genuinely good RTS to come out in recent years is Company of Heroes. Every other game since then has ranged from bad to simply mediocre. Grey Goo is meh. Dawn of War 3 is meh. Act of Aggression is meh. Wargame, Command and Conquer 4. It's all just, meh, meh, meh.

Remember the early days of Warcraft 3? Remember the innovative hero/item system, the beautiful cinematics that still stand up today, the great single player campaign, the bustling custom game scene before DotA took over, the easy yet competitive gameplay, the great voice acting that still sticks in your head a decade later, an in-depth fantasy universe instead of Generic Sci-Fi or Modern Warfare Clone #49284? I'm not even saying WC3 is the best RTS game out there, but during its peak, it was THE game everyone played and made a splash that no RTS has made since. WC3 created a whole goddamn GENRE for fucks sake. The standard of what makes a good RTS has dropped dramatically over the decade, and now just having a barely passable single-player and barebones multiplayer with no custom game support or ladder system is apparently considered "good" nowadays.

RTS desperately needs an great game that actually has a shred of real effort put into it. Not decent. Not okay. Not good. GREAT. Until then, have fun with yet another sci-fi RTS with shitty art design, boring gameplay, and a pointless gimmick that dies out in a month.

>>378236816
RTS games were the biggest genre on PC in the 90s before FPS games took over
It was alive enough to spawn hundreds of shitty knockoff games and I'm sure they made some people at EA and Blizzard very rich

>>378245971
I have Anno 2070 for economy and when I was younger I found it entertaining to just cheat and make RTS my sandbox, it wasn't bad but man, it sounds so silly now

Because what seems to be a genre about intelligence and tactics quickly turns out to be about how many actions you can do per second.

>>378246613
>what is Command & Conquer
Besides what makes generic fantasy better than generic sci-fi?

why do people praise Company of Heroes so much?
I tried playing it, and I enjoyed the basic unit mechanics but the population cap and the stupid resource system meant I spent all my time playing cat-and-mouse trying to stop 1 unit from capping my points instead of fighting real battles

>>378236723
It would be warcraft 1111 idiot

>>378236816
RTS as a genre single handedly put blizzard entertainment on the map

>>378246825
its easy to play and not very mechanically intensive

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>>378245550
Two expansions and it will be fixed!

>>378246613
>Remember the innovative hero/item system
This focus on heroes over units and WC3 copycats literally killed RTS.

>>378246901
can I have an answer from someone who isn't a starcraft shitter?

>>378246825
so you played a match against the AI and then complain about it on /v/

try shooting the enemy

>>378246613
It's funny how you list like 10 things that are good about WC3 and only mention the gameplay once
WC3 played like shit, it was only good as a modding platform

>>378247020
>This focus on heroes over units and WC3 copycats literally killed RTS.

No. Being out-competed by Mobas did. League of Legends is unironically better than 99% of RTS games that have come out the past 5 years, and I don't even like LoL.

>>378247065
well I pirated the game so I couldn't play online
I'm not shitting on the game I'm just wondering if there's something I'm missing

>>378247034
its the call of duty of rts thats why

>>378247185
mobas aren't even remotely similar to RTS you meme spouting mouthbreather

>>378247252
you're missing playing the game. I'm not going to explain how the game works, go watch videos or something

>>378247185
>and I don't even like LoL.

Okay.
Grey Goo is mediocre and that shits on MOBAs as an RTS.

>>378247034
it's literally the reason you absolute retard
base and ressources management are relatively easy so you can focus on shooting the other dude
Even the ressource system encourages fighting
fighting shit is fun
fun is fun is fun

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>>378246613


fucking this

i just started playing warIII right now for the first time and i immediately realized why it was so popular.

the genre didn't die they just stopped making good games

Does the newest Anno game still have the bullshit U-play-Ark system?

>>378246073
>it seems that you only played sc2
is my reply really that long that it's tiresome to read it all?
regardless, i was pointing at APM and sc2 because RTS died with sc2, since it was the most popular and the gameplay is dominated by APM and resource management

>if you remove the economy part the game becomes completely focused on APM the thing you hate
how is less fucking around with miners=more APM? i didn't imply that economy should be removed altogether, but it should be more automatic, like in the game that i've mentioned, Rise of Nations
just send the worker to do his thing and that's all, resource gathering is capped and the source is infinite, hence the game becomes more about strategy than money
your army has formations, siege is a thing, attrition, supplies, etc. it's the best thing ever

>people are too focused on the pro player and don't understand that there is no reason to play like them unless you want to be a pro too
this is true, but sadly this is the path it took and this is how it's advertised and they squeeze out more sheckels this way

>>378246604
yeah sorry, i forgot you sometimes have to click left and right on the screen to get the right positioning
>defending death ball at all
baka

Please tell me I'm not the only one who played Original War

>>378237381
>Not playing sc1 RIGHT now with your friends
ITS FREE
PLAY IT

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFn_nElicHs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJgDknrjoj8

>Act Two still hasn't been fully released

>>378247734
It also has severe issues with modern systems. You need to kill windows to get the colors right.

>>378247591
sorry, I thought you were critcizing the game for not being a gook clicker
I'm just saying when I played 1v1 vs the AI I didn't have enough troops to even form a line and spent all my time chasing shit around the map because of my population cap

>>378247925
No, they updated it to work properly on windows 7 and 10. Game functions perfectly now.

>>378236393
Because every fuck nugget keeps repeating that it is dead and people believe them without even attempting.
The real reason is, you can't butcher it into DLCs and ingame purchases without throwing it out of balance.
You can't turn it into a cashcow, it is simply not marketable

>>378247825
all these old CNC ressurection mods feel like they're made by 10 year olds who never grew up

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Don't tell me I'm the only one who played Submarine Titans. It was so comfy.

>>378247717
if you can move in with a deathball and outright win it's because your opponent is bad, in sc2 each race has fuckton of mechanics that destroy deathballs, or you just outmacro'd and outstrategy'd your opponent by getting the better army composition and right tech
just massing units will never win you a game, a deathball win is culmination of multiple marginal advanatages accumulated throughout the match

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>>378247825
>infantry>cavalry
MO is nice, but also garbage at the same time
seriously, fuck those disguising terrorists that can engulf an entire base alone in flames, their health pool is too much even when detected
those laser drones need 3 shots to kill 1 fucker

>>378246613
>the innovative hero/item system
You mean circlejerking around three units which have more impact that the buffer/support that follows them? It would've been alot better if it was at least optional thing, but it is a part of the game which is not only mandatory, but to which entire game caters to with neutral camps carrying artifacts and common soldiers acting like backpacks.

>>378248159
Know what? My father plays it. Like always. For past ten years. Fuck, I played too, my sister too. It's funny they marketed it as SC-killer. I remember the best that alien cruiser or whatever was retarded and that there was this innovative mechanic of submarines DODGING TORPEDES

>>378248242
You're also forgetting that games are often over before either players can even sustain a deathball

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Hero units were a mistake.

>>378240809
Same
But I still play it. Check out cncnet

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>>378237872
>IIII was never used
Third world education, everyone.

>>378248159
Replayed it two months back, solid, but in some cases really raw game, also late game upgrades really break combat into boring monotomy.
>>378248405
>and that there was this innovative mechanic of submarines DODGING TORPEDES
Hilariously enough forcing your units into guard mode is 10x more effective than anything else when it comes to micro, because they keep passively dodging while attacking, as opposed to direct attack command when they bum rush and hug their target ignoring anything else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr7A19TPN_k

RTS's started to fall out of favor when they stopped putting effort into their single player.

Because everyone keeps trying to make them more and more casual and competitive.

The reason SC2 and DoW3 suck is because they keep trying to make the games under 20 minutes. The only way to do this is to take out everything that makes the game an RTS and fun which is building your base and watching your armies clash.

It's funny, as RTS games die 4X games become more popular.

>>378246002
Good.
Only Stainless Steel Studios had the right to develop it.
I will never get the "Add-ons for the sake of add-ons" mentality and frankly, what Sierra and Mad Doc did with these was shameful. I know mods that were done more professionally than what they did.

>>378246073
honestly, even SC2 that's a shit strat and doesn't work.

>>378247252
To put it a bit more mildly, playing against the AI is shitty precisely because the AI is everywhere at once.

Get the game on sale and play a 4v4. It is a completely different game.

>>378248775
>guard mode is 10x more effective than anything else when it comes to micro
So they solved microing issue by having units unresponsive enough that you can't "dodge" with them that way while restricting good dodging to AI-only control?
2bh I'm ok with this

>>378236393
Seriously? How fucking retarded are you?

Consoles.

>>378246190
grey goo was made by ex westwood devs. It's alright. but honestly has the same issues red alert 3 or tiberium wars has.

>>378248850
>casual and competitive.
pick one you retarded faggot

>>378248474
C&C and Dawn of War 1 did them right.

>>378246825
It's intense, looks great, and the gameplay is malleable.

Cat and mouse is early game, usually. I think you're talking about 1v1? say you might bait wehrmact opponent into setting up a machine gun inside a building because you are building a mortor and or have a couple flammed up engineers and a couple rifles all ready to swarm the house when it sets up.

when you get to tier 3 as americans, you still play cat and mouse, but more with m8's (glass cannons that can lay heavy mines) and at guns as you try to bait wehrmact vehicles to their death or at least damage them enough to cause wehrmact to focus their pioneers on repairs.

tier 4 in 1v1 is when cat and mouse dies down and is more about quick assualts and resource allocation. If you're in a evenly matched game and make it this far, this is where magic happens- tanks flanking, howitzer shellings, rifle swarms, sniper creeps, ect. Such a fun game.

If you don't want cat and mouse, you'll have to play team matches, much more resources so you reach tiers faster.

and finally. American vs wehrmact is the absolute best way to play, most even and fun.

Brits are powerful, but I think it is the most boring faction to play as and if you lose ground as them, you cannot recover because half their forces are emplacements. You really need to have a predetermined strategy to win as brits.

And panzer elite... broken fucking faction. I have no idea what relic was thinking, but this faction is for lazy faggots that just want to win. They have massive advantages against USA. Against an equally skilled player, the chances of victory are pitiful. Every single unit has some special ability, can plant explosives on points and in buildings for free

this is the build order for every single panzer elite player

>4 basic infantry
>2 armored cars

and thats it. for 10 in game minutes you have absolutely no counter to armored cars and the only reliable counter, tier 3 m8, cannot one shot them and can easily be out run

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>>378249076
>Consoles.

>>378236393
Autism become less common in the gaming demographic, since it started becoming mainstream.

>>378249136

You can do both idiot gay.

>>378248850
>in SC2 you don't build bases and watch armies clash
want me to tell you how i know you are retarded and full of shit?

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>tfw im so retarded I can't even beat most RTS campaigns on Normal difficulty

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>>378248242

deathball is shit.

is shit game design.

scBW and warcraftIII don't have deathball because Rob Pardo is not retarded like david kim

Because the most popular RTS never were about strategy, and instead tried to capitalize on "micromanagement" aspect where you have to constantly repeat the same chore of reminding your every single unit how to not be retarded. As soon as non-garbage action games started coming out, on consoles in particular, the RT"S" genre became redundant, and its tactical aspect was easily adopted by much more accessible games, like DotA.

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>There will never be another Rise of Legends game
>They will never add the cut Finish mythology faction or the Mongol wandering cities faction or the giant race, which you can all find traces of in the editor
>There will never be a spin-off set in the world of Rise of Legends
Wasted IP right there.

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>>378249440
>implying BW doesn't have deathballs

>>378236393
because starcraft happened and I'm not baiting. even RTS fans think of SC styled APM focused games and they disagree the strategy part. Company of Heroes was the right direction where RTS should headed but it was too slow for SC autists. And don't forget games like Dungeon Keeper and stuff. People ignore them as well.

>>378248806
it's more like RTS stopped putting effort into their single player because they started falling out of favor
People who like cutscenes and stories can go play JRPGs

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>>378236723
He's right fuckers

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Of ALL games... This is on fucking Steam! I didn't expect it at all. Fucking childhood, man
>>378249590
Why people post games that my father plays? Post Earth 2160 (even though 2150 is better) and it's gonna be complete.

>>378236393
Simple answer? Because while it scratches an itch a minority of Korean autists can't get scratched anywhere else, for 99% of the population it's more work than fun.

Also, somewhat ironically enough, the genre has very little do with strategy; it's more about micromanagement and multitasking.

If I want strategy I play XCOM, or Chess.

>>378236723
>IIII
Holy shit.

>>378242278
The best RTS I ever played was Dark Crusade; something about the scale, the fact that units moved and behaved like units, and the lack of abilities to micromanage just clicked for me.

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>>378249590
RoL and Heroes of Annihilated Empires deserved better fates.

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>>378248095
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UYh22j8JM4

Until you realize Frank Klepacki did a contribution.

>>378249429
shit nigger use your hand
click on the buildings to make soldiers
with the soldiers click the enemies to kill them
what the fuck are you even doing

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>MUH S in RTS
>while completely ignoring the R in RTS

>>378249727
>Earth 2160 (even though 2150 is better) and it's gonna be complete.
Trilogy is on sale at GOG right now.

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>>378236774
>oversaturation and stagnation
Sure put FPS in their coffin
>back in the day rts games were released non-stop and the grand majority were painfully similar and had low production values
Were you around when there was a new WWII shooter coming out every week?
>devs also just straight up didn't do anything new
They still do that, games can just be shit out half done and all you faggots will preorder the digital deluxe. Why would anyone make a game for the sake of making a good game anymore when you can just copy paste other games and their formats? (5v5 multiplayer)

>>378249372

No you don't Armies and buildings get wiped in 5 seconds flat and that deathball is even a thing at professional play is even more proof.

If turrets weren't dectectors I doubt anyone would even build them. The fact is games are over in 30 minutes or less because everything dies in half a second.

>>378249608

wtf BW doesn't have deathballs

do you know what a deathball is?

>>378249440
the only reason they dont have deathballs is because it artifically limits how many units you can select
thats not good game design

>>378244427

So, you wanna play Supreme Commander ONLINE, don't ya? You wanna figure out how it's like fighting those gigantic battles that the trailer promised you.

Well ... prepare for some MAJOR fucking disappointment.

Some fantards made this extra lobby browser so your Steam version is actually compatible with other versions of the game. The major fucking problem with this is, that the entire userbase of this lobby-system consists out of elitist tryhard faggots and smurfs.

But no, NOOOOO, that's not actually the BAD part. You wanna know WHY it sucks? THE RATING SYSTEM.

Yes, they built in a score system to rate your wins and losses, but instead of giving you a fair starting score, they actually reward you with NEGATIVE BLACK SCORE every time you LOSE. In fact, lose about 5 huge team games in a row and you're already at -400 and it will stay like this, PERMANENTLY, unless you fix it the hard way. It shows up in black ugly letters how much of an abomination you're supposed to be. This should be called: passive ethnic cleansing.

>>378249046
Mostly, it depends on the situation, because pretty much 95% of weapons are projectile based, units having fixed vertical firing arcs and the fact that subs can only dodge only when there is free space above or beneath them it surprisingly makes formations rather important, a blob would just stuck together and be an easy target for enemy, but too open formation will make your units too separated and easily focused, cascade in not only painstakingly hard to make, but also is #1 reason for friendly fire. And vertical dodging is pretty much impossible because ships react differently to "go up/down" commands when given manually by the player, although you can still make some swift crazy ivan manouvers with horizontal movement when AI blindly charges at that one sub with 10% hp.

>>378236774
>oversaturation and stagnation,
How is the situation different for ASSFAGGOTS?

>>378249969


Good luck being a new guy who just went through all the campaigns and skirmishes and tries to get the hang of the real multiplayer battles by joining teamgames. Nobody will ever play with you again and treat you like a nigger. Do you have problems with your mass production and ressource management? BETTER GO LOOK AT SOME REPLAYS NIGGER, AS NOBODY WILL EVER FUCKING EXPLAIN IT TO YOU!

If you want to look it up you might find some guide for retards that explains how the influx system of the ressources works, BUT NOT HOW TO PROPERLY USE IT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE. So prepare to get constantly zerg-rushed while everyone blames you for being the cancer of everything.

Unlike other shitty games, like League of Legends, having a negative score here excludes you from EVERY SINGLE GAME, be it a "noob game" or a "Seton (That map with the landbridge) 700max (Max Score 700)" game. Yes, you're basically banned from ever playing again.

No really, nobody wants to see you again in the game when you lost a few times, ever. So you might aswell just start again with an alternate account or do teamkilling with nukes (if you get so far to build a launcher), as your only option after this is to go hardcore and play 1vs1. You will totally enjoy soloing against a 30 year old basement dwelling neckbeard smurf who rapes your mass extractors as you helplessly try to build your first army and get an even lower negative score.

>>378250042
it's a new genre so people aren't bored of it yet

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>>378238754
>>378238894

You know that this guy actually wanted to make Dune movie?

Imagine the pure mindfuckery - Giger concept graphics, Pink Floyd making OST, Jodorowsky imagination and non other than Salvadore Dali playing Emperor.

>>378250042
there's only 2.5 popular MOBAs, all the rest have failed, and they're already stagnating but the playerbase and replayability factor are so huge people will probably still be playing them in 20 years even if they stopped patching them completely

>>378249832
I've bought this autism 3 TIMES! already, I even have a box still, no thanks
>>378249750
What's HoAE?

>>378249864
>what is finger of god/death

>>378249863
>If turrets weren't dectectors I doubt anyone would even build them.
you are legit retarded
>what is drop play
the focus of SC2 and a way to tear a deathball shitters apart that's what it fucking is
>The fact is games are over in 30 minutes or less because everything dies in half a second.
so fucking what?

>>378248405
>>378249727
You father is based.
Tell him that a random internet anon said that.

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Everyone now wants to play just to win. It's okay, but it the situation got horrible when e-sports gooks and niggers came.

>>378250140
at this point MOBAs have been popular longer than real RTS games have

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>>378249940

having units divided in squads is actually good game design

is how people expect a strategy game to work

you have squads you move around to do shit.


you don't expect to have 200 units clumped in one single spot

is total war not letting you clump 10000000 soldiers together bad game design?

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>>378250219
>What's HoAE?

>>378236393
No room to grow.
Systematic killing of every prominent franchise.
Moba became more accessible and popular over time.
Today RTS is reserved to a niche of hyper competitivity and high levels of play.

>>378250219
>What's HoAE?
Basically Cossacks in a fantasy setting.
It's on GOG

>>378247925
You are lying.

>>378250349
your 'squad' analogy makes no sense
relic games have squads, and you can select all your squads at once and give them an order
in starcraft you can only select one squad, if you want to give an order to your whole army and you have 12 squads you have to give 12 orders

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>>378250378
>game allows you to play as a necromancer hero in skirmish and build an army of undeath without even having a base

>>378236393
Because mostly idiot player base thinking they are good at this kind of game, those idiots now play moba and popular competitive games.

>>378250454
A roman way to say hoe.

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>>378250171
yes I know

his comics are fucking whack so it might actually have been good (albeit incredibly maximalist and also like 8 hours long)

>>378236393
the genre was dominated by a company whose sole focus on game design was accessibility, game feel and presentation.

No depth no progression no balance leads to stagnation.

>>378250349
the fact that you have limited unit selection doesn't stop people from massing units in one spot you dumbass

and the other way around too unlimited selection doesn't stop people from dividing their units into multiple groups

in BW and SC2 you have your main force and harass groups, the only difference is that in BW it's harder to execute

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Am I the only one who enjoys the RTS genre for single player campaigns, not competitive multi-player?

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>>378250573

if i can can select all squads at once they became one big squad lol

"squad" is not based on how they move together but how you control them

>>378250860
no, 95% of people who post in RTS threads are mongoloids who want to play military sim city and use the word 'comfy'

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>>378250860
We are the silent majority.

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>>378250434
>No room to grow.
Wargame spit in your face and screams obscenities in French.

The only limit is the sky. But you need to know your shit and people like that left.
Those left are people who do not know their shit so they mostly retread the old paths and die during the march just like everyone before them.

There is plenty of innovation left in there. DoW3 has a ton. It's bogged down by the same problem of devs retreading the path of WC3 instead of doing their own thing entirely.

Fuck heroes, but the gigantic units actually having a use is golden.
The scale is handled well, unique faction mechanics as well.
The stupid cores need to go. Either they add a better way to make shitters not shit like they've done in CoH or let nature run its course entirely.
Announcers screaming at you for floating resources or telling you which direction the fight is? Also new amazing ideas.

Sometimes you fail, like with Impossible Creatures, but Impossible Creatures was responsible for Dawn of War.
I wouldn't mind that kind of failure instead of having to fail because they had to adhere to the contradictory dries of some faggots who don't even play any games.

>>378250860
I've got nobody to play with so you aren't the only one

>>378250349
>>is total war not letting you clump 10000000 soldiers together bad game design?
Total war does let you do that though.

>>378250952
if a commander of an army tells all his squads to attack at the same time, that doesn't mean they've all become one squad

>>378250860
no, most of people in RTS threads want simcity with guns

>>378249819
I've never understood this.
All real time means really is that it isn't turn based.
Why does that suddenly mean that you need 200+ effective APM for your city to do its job on a micro level?
The original SSI stronghold was an RTS in which focusing on economy, military growth or military training was literally nothing more than a triangle graph that you chose a point on and the game took care of the rest whilst you were making other decisions elsewhere.
I'm not saying that it's a better system or anything but it's a different system that worked and gave more opportunities for the player to organize other things (especially given that you start out with 5 cities all with their own stats, and every unit having it's own stats using the AD&D system)
gookclick is fine but why are so many autists adamant that it's the only system that's allowed to exist?

>>378250978
vocal majority

>>378250860
Isn't it like 95%? Multiplayer is usually infested with autists who know the every most efficient tactics out there. I just want to slowly build up my army and plan.

>>378250860
>Am I the onl-
No.
This is part of the problem, really. Of the recent RTS releases I've kept up with, they all seem to be about that MLG competitive scene Twitch integration nonsense, but they forgot to make the single player part of things actually good as well.
Grey Goo in particular suffered from this, alongside a host of other problems that made the game not at all interesting to play through.

>>378237472
are you saying you don't need to learn a lot about the game with FPS games? Try playing Quake 3 against a decent player while not knowing how to rocket jump, strafe jump, circle jump, bhop, etc. You WILL get btfo because you didn't know how to do those things. Aim isn't the only thing that matters because if you don't know how to move or predict your enemies, you're going to get fucked again and again.

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>>378251054
>SimCity with guns
pic related

>>378249838
>"Were you around when there was a new WWII shooter coming out every week?"
To be fair that is what killed WWII shooters

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Since this game wasn't brought up yet I suspect it's of "just ok" kind.

PLAY ORIGINAL WAR

>>378251350
except those games are sort of good as sim city with guns, standard RTS games are basically perfectly suited to multiplayer and horrible for singleplayer yet idiots insist they need to be bad single player games

>>378251350
I found 2070 to be more entertaining than 1404 honestly, but I like sci-fi more than history, so I guess it's just me being special

>>378251217
There has been this Unity RTS game currently on it's first sequel that has no multiplayer at all.

Doesn't help it all that much.
Dawn of War 3, likewise, has a multiplayer campaign of pretty significant length and it did it no favors because the multiplayer folk tried it out and immediately spat it back up as uninteresting compared to real matches.

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>>378251430
>I'm not the only one
Feels good man

>>378251645
>tfw finally finished ruskie campaign on hard

>>378249969
>>378250052
this is some heavy saltposting

but i agree. FAF does a bunch of shit really fucking wrong. i still dont understand what the fuck they were thinking when they decided to apply a ladder ranking systems to custom games and team games. it's good for 1v1 ladder, but absolute garbage for everything else.

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>>378250856

>the fact that you have limited unit selection doesn't stop people from massing units in one spot you dumbass

yes it does

if i have 100 units and i can control 25 at a time i can mass them in one spot but the moment i want to move them they wont move together

>in BW and SC2 you have your main force and harass groups, the only difference is that in BW it's harder to execute

in bw you have your main army all clumped and harass

this create a situation where the engages sucks dicks

watch a 200/200 fight in BW

the units are all spread out

there is an actual frontline and sometimes a small group getting behind the enemy army can really fuck shit up

you see armies trying to get a concave to shoot better.

>>378250792
and franchised e-sports

>>378251060
real-time means that you don't just pick a build order at the start of the game and that determines who wins, it means that your inputs matter and that you can win with execution and naturally if you are able to multitask better why should it not give you an edge?
>why are so many autists adamant that it's the only system that's allowed to exist?
because on the other side there are people saying the exact opposite, that APM shouldn't matter, it's the standard mindset of you can only like one thing and if you don't like what i like you are a cock
i think less APM intensive RTS are okay, they allow expression for players that are just not interested on working on their multitasking and explore some different ideas

>>378251645
What's up with your gamma? This looks awful.

new cossacks any good boys?

You can only build so many pylons before it gets old

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>>378251645
Reminds me of Chaos Island

>>378251060

but you don't need 200+ APM

not even in BW

you need it if you want to be a pro

>>378251928
>>the fact that you have limited unit selection doesn't stop people from massing units in one spot you dumbass
>yes it does stop it
>no it doesn't stop it
do you even read what you post? "i can mass them in one spot"
>the units are all spread out
>there is an actual frontline and sometimes a small group getting behind the enemy army can really fuck shit up
>you see armies trying to get a concave to shoot better.
the exact same shit happens in SC2 too, you have guys flanking, ranged units forming a concave etc.

>images of anime girls
i am done with you you baiting faggot

Turn-based is superior to real-time. The disadvantage of a player moving second can be offset by predeployed units.

>>378251519
>because the multiplayer folk tried it out and immediately spat it back up as uninteresting compared to real matches.
Well, I guess that is what they are wont to do, really.
But I think there's something to be said about using the single player as a honeypot to attract players who then, if they're interested, try their hand at the multiplayer to see what it's like, thus allowing a playerbase to grow naturally. Isn't that how the classics of the genre originally became as popular as they are now?
Conversely, giving an RTS the same treatment that the industry usually gives to seasonal FPS releases where the multiplayer is the big focus, and as soon as you open the game you're met with twitch observer lists and top daily rankings and whatnot and the singleplayer is this abortive, 40-minute long utterly unfulfilling experience hidden in a side menu might just turn players away who get overwhelmed or intimidated by the prospect of playing against real people without feeling they had time to grasp the basics during the course of a normal campaign.

That's not even mentioning the quality of said classic campaigns on their own right.

>>378251972
>means that you don't just pick a build order at the start of the game and that determines who wins
No it doesn't, real time means real time, i.e. not turn based. There's plenty of turn based games in which "you don't just pick a build order at the start of the game and that determines who wins"

>because on the other side there are people saying the exact opposite, that APM shouldn't matter
How many people have explicitly said that? I've seen these threads multiple times and yet to see anyone state they don't want APM to make any impact on the game whatsoever, instead just throwing out ideas that would reduce incessant micromanaging and often actually already happen in certain RTS games.

>>378252374
I apologise for my hyperbole.

>>378252179
Not mine
>>378252336
Well, time period is roughly ok...

>>378252705
>I've seen these threads multiple times and yet to see anyone state they don't want APM to make any impact on the game whatsoever
It's just a strawman created by gookclick zealots who think that anyone criticizing Starcraft wants RTS games to involve no skill

>>378236723

>warcraft IIII

its iv idiot iv, fuuuuck, reeeeeee.

>>378244629
I see some real gems in that guide for plebs like Warlords BattleCry and KKND, Universe At War belongs in the trash though.

>>378243715
>dota likes
They are called mobas

>>378252705
>There's plenty of turn based games in which "you don't just pick a build order at the start of the game and that determines who wins"
yeah i phrased it bad, in TBS player relinquishes his control over his units and victor is determined by stats of units not mechanical execution

>How many people have explicitly said that?
it's heavily implied, with the constant >gookclick, >muh 200 APM, >muh ADHD, they want to play chess-like games, where strategy is what determines the winner

>>378243732
Seconded, it's kind of ackward at first but the gameplay is really fun and i like the units banter and story

>>378253320
no people want to play a game where skill AND strategy matter, that's the ultimate potential of RTS games

>>378236468
Fpbp

>>378244506
Is AI war fleet command worth it? it's on sale now and i was really curious about it, just don't know how much of a SP game it is since i keep hearing the game is best with coop

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>>378252487

>do you even read what you post? "i can mass them in one spot"

the point is that is useless to mass them if the moment you want them to move they can't move altogether

>the exact same shit happens in SC2 too, you have guys flanking, ranged units forming a concave etc.

wtf i play and watch sc2 since WOL and this literally never happems

there is no advantage in doing that

you just have armies dancing back and forth and when they actually engage it last like 5 seconds max

>>378253293
That's how you know when the thread is over, because only dotards call the genre "dota-likes", and where there's one dotard there's a thousand.

It's safe to assume that the majority of people ITT saying the RTS genre is bad or that MOBAs are better are dotards.

>>378253687
>spamming irrelevant umineko reaction images
dont even reply to this 'person'

>>378253590
so why do they shit on starcrafts all the time? because skill and strategy does matter in those games

>>378253826
because starcraft woefully under-delivers on the strategy side of things

>>378253628
Basically, it's
>you're human rebel
>you're more or less Zimbabwe to AI's USA
>have fun
Though you must remember that unless you start doing risky shit AI will not bother doing more than sending token security force that you can deal with easily.
And you can summon ROFLOP fleet that will fucking destroy AI and it feels good

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>>378253781

>>378253920
no, there is a lot of strategy in starcraft

>>378254081
hi I dislike you for the sole reason that you seem like a fag, did not even read any of your posts
ok thanks for reading my blog