Have games finally become an art form?

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>not mentioning To The Moon
Idk if games are art right now, but perhaps we'll eventually get there. After all, people thought in the beginning that films were just a stupid pastime for simpletons (or smth like that), it happens with every new medium.

>>378109746
>play spec ops the line for the first time
>be happy that it tells me that i am a special guest
>realize later it was actually mocking me

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>>378109746
no but trollin has become a art

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>>378110446
VR is already turning out to be a great next step to this. Dear Angelica was pretty amazing with the individual brush strokes being full 3D you can look around. Plus they used the scale marvellously.

>Scenes from Angelica's 'superwoman' film get huge and close up as the fight esculates.
>It suddenly fades out to a very tiny scene of her in a hospital.

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yeah huhuh us ART GAME players huh

Someone post the one with all of the brooding male protags where he added Mario and Luigi in the background and gave them assault rifles.

QUICK, POST THAT ONE DOOM 4 COMIC

Games are games. Accept that your hobby is not art. It's a fun way to pass time, some can be a bit educational (extremely less educational than any other educational tool) but nothing more.

FUck off
I dont want more 2 hour cinematic experiences
GAMES ARE NOT ART

are rollercoaster ride art too?

Calling anything a "form of art" is literally retarded
If you look at something and appreciate it in a way that makes you a better person it's art
A rock can be art, a painting can be art, a video game can be art
Literally anything appreciable can be art to one person and not to another

>>378112857
You're right. Cinematics are lazy story telling. It's better to have the player go through the motions themselves.

Art is a label put on an entertainment that does not entertain people anymore.

>Be too stupid to understand books
>Watch the movie
>Too stupid for that too
>Play the video game
>HURR MUH ART

Literally the laughing stock of the entire art world.

>>378109746
Art is subjective anything can be art it's a manliness tern

>>378113731
*meaninglessness

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The more you insist on games as being art, the more political bullshit will get shoehorned into them.

Be careful what you wish for.

>>378113731
>manliness autosuggestion
dumb phoneposter

>>378113731
>>378113834
try again

>>378109746
The problem with videogames being art is the definition of art. In the loosest terms games have been an art since day 1. In legal terms at least in america videogames in enjoy the protection of being an art form. Are games art in like germany? Because I hate always havin pussy ass developers remove swastikas all the time. Its only ultra conservative people are games not art. I belive a game can be art but only the absolute highest quality of the stuff every game that rolls of the shelf isnt. Most is just consumer grade stuff designed to be fun not to really make you think or feel that much.

>>378113731
>Everything is made out of matter as such materialism is a meaningless position
MATERIALISTS BTFO
HOW WILL THEY EVERY
RECOOOOOOOOVEEEEEEEEEEEEER

>>378113604
this and I'd always defend vidya as art but spec ops should not be the game to point towards

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>>378109746
>>378110446

>>378115091
No they are not
Movies and such can show swastikas cuz they're art
But games can't because it'd be considered nazi propaganda

Why did this fagtron make such a big 180? Was he paid to shit all over video games all suddenly?

>>378115091
the core problem is that politicians don't understand videogames.
They think video games are real, so they think anything depicted in them is also real. They're afraid of actuall nazis coming out of the screen, just like how people were afraid of cinema back in the day.

>>378118184
I thought he was busy being an SJW

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>>378109746
That pic really triggers me. I don't care if it was done on purpose.

>>378118184
Following trends.

>>378111309
an art*

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>>378119113

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I don't care if the game is art or not as long as it's a good game. I don't give a single fuckaroo what some cuck hipster thinks about me, I just want to play a good game. To me it seems that the more the game is considered art, the less of a game it is. These hipsters keep making those shitty feefee walking simulators that have barely any game in them, and then they circle jerk around how artsy and deep they are, when in reality they're just fucking around in bare bones game.

Sure, game can be both good gameplay wise and have "deep cinematic experience", but first and foremost it needs to be a good game. OG Doom is fucking fantastic game, I played it for hundreds of hours before I could even read the minimal plot it had, yet I enjoyed the game because it's a good video game.

These art game hipsters are just ashamed to enjoy video games which are essentially virtual toys, so now they try to shoehorn this art crap in so that they can enjoy their Grand Theft Murder Simulator V without getting bad looks from their "mature and educated" peers. What a bunch of spineless wimps.

>>378117160
Fuck Winston Rowntree and his midlife crisis.

>>378110649
Please convince me this game isn't shit, I've played a lot of overhyped games and saw why people like them when they didn't appeal to me. To the moon is the only game I've seen as purely bad and I'd like to see someone's opinion on it that isn't "it made me cry"

>>378117160
Trick question, they both are

I will never acknowledge video games as an art-form. Any retard can go on rpg-maker and make a game and on top of that any story a video games has can be done better in a movie or novel. That said thanks to post-modernism anything and everything is being called art from literally nothing to someone masturbating with a can of spaghetti-o's.

>>378120414
Any retard can write a wish fulfillment gas station novel, so I'll never accept books as art. Anyone can throw paint at a canvas, so I'll never accept paintings as art.

>>378120414
>Any retard can grab a pen and write a book, and on top of that any story a book has can be done better in a movie or videogame.
>Any retard can grab a camera and make a movie, and on top of that any story a movie has can be done better in a novel or videogame.

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>>378112846
>Games are games.
Books are books.
Movies are movies.
Music are music.
Paintings are paintings.

>tfw art doesn't even exist.

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>>378120623
>>378120553

Videogames aren't even close to being art yet.

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>>378120414
Wow! Just found the retard.

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>>378121214
You seem upset

>>378109746
maybe graphics can be considered art otherwise no

>>378117160
I wonder if people who make these kind of things even know what a video game is.

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>>378121285
Oh thank God you are a troll... I just thought it was somebody's real opinion.
I'm sorry - carry on.

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Can gardening be art? Asking for a friend.

>>378120414
I will never acknowledge Painting as an art-form. Any retard can go to arts'n'craft and buy some supplies and on top of that any meaning a painting has can be done better in a mosaic or novel. That said thanks to post-modernism anything and everything is being called art from literally nothing to someone masturbating with a can of spaghetti-o's.

>>378117160
It's fascinating how he went from left picture to the right one. How can one man's views so radically change? What made him despise video games anyways, after having such a boner for them?

>>378123780
He probably got his shit pushed in so hard from the first stupid comic that he produced the right one.

>>378121958
Anything can be art as long as you have the honest intention to do it artistically.
You may be the only person to recognize it as art, but at least there still will be one perso to do it.

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>>378117160
>moving images feature pleasing sounds and sometimes words
>but vidya is a diluted combination of art forms because it features pleasing sounds and sometimes words
>vidya is not versatile enough to allow infinite possibilities
>colorful blocks are not versatile for infinite possibilities (lego autists and people programming computers into minecraft say hi)
>main appeal of everything but videogames is I just finished a college lit course checklist that boils down to "it's fun"
>videogames are less mentally stimulating than passive hobbies
oh god every column is comedy, why are insecure faggots so obsessed with how people view their hobbies just have fun you pathetic sperg
>he thinks any arthouse movie or academic book can come close to the deepness that is EYE divine cybermancy

>>378126051
>EYE Divine Cybermancy
My nigga, but you're overdoing it if you claim that no arthouse movie or academic book can come close or surpass it

I can never understand this guy's shit

>>378126245
I know, it was just a joke, but come on this fucker thought spec ops was the deepest shit he'd go fucking insane after one cycle

>>378126346
>this fucker thought spec ops was the deepest shit he'd go fucking insane after one cycle
True.

>>378113731
>anything can be art
Its this kind of thinking that makes modern """""art""""" absolute trash.

Does it really matter what is or isn't art when a plastic crucifix in a jar of piss is considered art

Not at all. If you'd like I could explain to you why.

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>>378126526

>>378126526
>>378126640
You're thinking of post-modern art, modern art is like Van Gogh and Manet and Picasso.
If we're going to go with the ideals of post-modern art then yes video games are definitely art, if we're going by any other definition of art which actually has standards then probably not.

>>378126986
but at least van gogh was considered utter trash by his contemporaries and fucking offed himself, wouldn't it stand to reason that judging what is "art" is futile without a retrospective look on the context it was created in which we simply don't have yet?

Watch the last episode of Car Boys and tell me games can't be art.

>>378126876
I bet I could pass art school like that; just show up during a final with some shit I did an hour ago and be like, "You probably just don't get it."

>>378119923
It's fucking shit.
I like sad games but this one is just retarded.

>>378127143
Maybe, I'm not an art critic or historian or whatever, that's why I said probably not instead of absolutely not.
To me the biggest thing that suggests that video games aren't art is that they aren't treated as such by anyone, not even the people who make them. It's kind of a circular argument I know; "they aren't art because they aren't art", but it's the only real difference.
Games are criticised like art, they contain other forms of art within themselves (writing, music, filmmaking), they can evoke emotion if done well. You could argue that because games are only made for money then they can't be art but plenty of painters and musicians were only able to do what they did because they were commissioned to do so.

>>378126027
>Anything can be art as long as you have the honest intention to do it artistically.
>You may be the only person to recognize it as art, but at least there still will be one perso to do it.
Which renders the concept of art meaningless, which suggests it's a bad, disfunctional definition. So no.
Also, don't base your definitions on something that cannot be even remotely verrified by principle. It's just patently retarded.

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>>378126876
>>378127406
>It happened at the museum of modern art on friday
>a retard shrieking upward on a mattress graced the same building as the original starry night and nostalgia of the infinite
how we've progressed

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>this is art

>>378112926
>A rock can be art, a painting can be art, a video game can be art
Literally not. A rock can't be art. The word "art" is derived from latin "ars" which means "craft or skill" (or a product of craft or skill). It comes from the same root as the word "artificial" (made by application of human skill). A rock cannot be art, rock is nature. You might use a rock as part of artistic production, but the rock itself cannot: art must be made by human hands.

>>378128235
>point was "hey maybe if you chucklefucks stopped being so strict some really creative stuff could happen"
>people took it as "make as low effort 2deep4u shit (sometimes literally) because that's what art is" while they still reject certain things (such as vidya)
wew postmodern art, should've stuck to realism

>>378128282
What if you shit on a rock? Seems to me, like it would align perfectly with modern art principles.

>>378128443
that would unironically be considered art if you were from the right social spheres
I mean a lady shat into a spaghetti-os can in front of a live audience, that would have less meaning than like "shitting on nature" or something

>>378119923
It doesn't even qualify as a game. In terms of interactivity it's barely better than a VN.

The story can be interesting, though. The whole "enter someone's memories" thing is an excuse to tell the story in reverse. There are asspulls where some things only make sense in-universe, but I thought it was bearable.

What I liked about it was that the story revolves around changing someone's memories, rather than actually going back in time to fix problems. This is the saving grace of the story, and the only reason why I would rate it a top-tier story in a "game". The entire thing is essentially pointless, which makes everything bittersweet. I would actually recommend it.

>implying spec ops was good
Looool

>>378128443
>What if you shit on a rock?
In theory, yes. That is already "creating" something. Of course, we will run into the other problem of art, which is merrit or value. Modern society and post-modern art is incapable of establishing actually functional value hierarchies, which affects post-modern art - as there are no proper values anywhere, there can't be any in art, resulting in artistic relativism, and the shit we see around like Duchamp and Shit in Can and a Guy Screaming. That said, values can be changed, established. It's a matter of a community and society how it sets up it's priorities.

>>378128794
It was. Not the most revolutionary game of all time, definitely not "blowing Heart of Darkness out of the water" (but then again OP's comic is clearly just fucking trolling, as the other comic pretty clearly proves), but it was pretty remarkable.
It really does not matter what you think about it.

>>378127406
That would only work as long as you kiss ass, which is what all modern art classes boil down to. You're at the whim of the teacher, some failed autist with an enflated ego. You "will never be better than him", but as long as you suck his shaft and follow his commands, he may let you pass.

>>378128615
I went through the whole thing in a night and I guess it's mostly the characters that grated on me. I didn't really consider these things you've brought up because it grated on me that the writing itself was poor, I suppose there is merit to something having certain overarching elements while itself being poor.

No, games are glorified toys. It's okay to like games, but you don't have to sugarcoat reality.

>>378128935
It was a shit shooter that couldn't even cater to mainstream.

>>378129248
>It was a shit shooter that couldn't even cater to mainstream.
Considering that mainstream is shit, that does not mean much. Mechanically - it was mediocre. Add to that great art direction, fantastic soundtrack, decent balance and progression, and one of the more memorable stories of gaming history: and you get a pretty interesting title, worth playing.
Again, it does not really matter if you disagree.

>>378129123
>no, film is just a glorified magic trick, it's ok to like film but you don't have to sugarcoat reality
>no, photography is just a glorified archival tool, it's ok to like photography but you don't have to sugarcoat reality
>no, painting is just glorified playing in the mud, it's ok to like painting but you don't have to sugarcoat reality
>no, song is just glorified talking, it's ok to like song but you don't have to sugarcoat reality

The fact that so many books still name Super Mario Bros. as "the greatest or most significant or most influential" videogame ever only tells you how far videogames still is from becoming a serious art.

>>378129594
ah yes, the most credible and indisputable sources of opinion-fact: "books" written by "people"

>>378109746
Videogames are not a form of art, because it is made for people with an IQ lower than 80. I'm sorry to tell you, but if you like videogames and have fun with it, you are literally dumb. Truth hurts I know man, but you gotta take the red pill.

>>378129528
you just posted retarded shit, games are just distractions and not really things that is uplifting

There's a difference between art and entertainment, and games are fully and the latter, much like sports.

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Videogames are fun, for that very reason alone they are valuable. We play them, discuss them, and analyze them. Obviously there is something "art like" about them. Though really it doesn't matter. I think most who argue for do so to make the hobby have a less childish stigma and those who argue against it are old fucks who are afraid that something new could be "art" and that they couldn't live to really witness it.

>>378129494
That's like saying DoD was good because muh story, when it was absolute trash. Kill yourself idiot

So many manchildren here. You all need to grow up and work your ass off.

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>>378129958

>>378116973
To be honest, besides Shadow of the Colossus and two or three crpgs, what video games are art? Or at least good art?

>>378130204
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEqccPhsqgA
>film is just distraction, and not really things that is uplifting
well my foreigneese friend, perhaps you should be less retarded and realize that views on things change over time, as has happened with past mediums, and if you're too thick to notice a pattern and just dismiss it as retarded that's your prerogative
I personally don't care either way, but the fact that all the art people are knuckle dragging retards who think the world is static and refuse to acknowledge the, what, third time in recent history something went from novelty to art because videogames are "ew childish, I am le mature art critic and can't be seen associating with 'fun'"is a bit annoying

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>people on /v/ are now unironically wanting videogames to be considered art
listen here you fucking newfags videogames won't have to deal with all this 2deep5u postmodern bullshit if they just stay as videogames
there's literally no reason to want faggot ass art guros to consider your pastime as art other then your shitty pride
W H O C A R E S
they're videogames
the title of "art" is arbitrary
just let them be videogames and let the artfags keep their heads up their asses
its better that they aren't trying to dictate vydia like they do with their shitty attempts at "art"

>>378120414
I acknowledge this bait as art

>>378130764
If anything more things point to games being negative, a big waste of time than anything uplifting at all. Many of the game stories and themes that people point at as something amazing are just taken from already existing books, and people who are easily wowed by those are just simpletons who should read a book once in a while.

Yeah, I understand you're arguing for relativism which leads to anything is art such as this >>378128235
>>378126876

>>378131113
>videogames won't have to deal with all this 2deep5u postmodern bullshit if they just stay as videogames
they already do you ninny, we just either shitpost or ignore them but they are out there in spades, but if vidya were considered LE ARTÉ then they'd have some protections here and there
nothing much would change but it couldn't hurt since we ALREADY have walking sims and art games without any of the free passes movies or books get to bend societal rules

>>378131284
>any of the game stories and themes that people point at as something amazing are just taken from already existing books
>simpletons, I am so le smart
>if anything more things... big waste of time than anything
ok, what is it pedro? sven? you know shakespeare, that guy everyone loves to fellate? how all his stories are just greco-roman myths?
being 100% original is not an argument against something being art, art has been derivative after derivative from the dawn of time, switching mediums doesn't rewrite the rules
artfags are always the least educated retards pretending to be smart because they look at old paintings

>>378131707
>they'd have some protections here and there
they'd have all the protection they need to make good games as long as people just wanting to play good games were involved
stop taking shit out of your ass your obviously a kid who wants to be told he's special by some old farts for being able to appreciate a game

Video games don't need to be art on anything more than a mechanical basis. The best games are mechanically beautiful, especially tried-and-true pioneers of the medium like Mario 64.

As far as stories and deep philosophy goes however, video games have never featured writing above the level of a comic book or Saturday-morning cartoon. I know a lot of /v/irgins here like to stroke themselves over games like MGS2 or Deus Ex but not only are those games not exactly original or profound, they also sacrificed a good deal of gameplay focus to cradle a narrative.

>>378132898
>unironically using "kid" as an insult
in germany games were heavily censored because they were considered "toys" under the law and should they have been art would have gotten through with much less hassle (ESPECIALLY swastikas, which are outright illegal on toys), for one concrete example
I'm sure there's plenty more nebulous examples, I'd guess a game would have a much harder time getting away with the "sicilian scene" from true romance than the movie did
why would games being considered art be such a problem that you need to resort to name calling anyway? so they're art now, nothing changes for you so cool your 'tism

>>378133037
There is not even a single fucking sentence in this post that would not be amazingly, mindblowngly stupid. Absolute majority of this thread is full of retards, but this one so far I think takes the cake.

I have question:
What the fuck is wrong with you people? What the fuck even possess you to sit down fucking type this shit. You cannot NOT KNOW that you are idiots, right? How do you just ask yourself "how do I even know this?"

You don't have the information, or experience, or even basic awareness of anything post shit like this. Yet you do, apparently without even so much as hesitation.
How the fuck does that happen? Can somebody walk me through what the fuck is going on the your head you post this shit?

>>378133439
Haven't seen this pasta before. It's decent but lacks a measure of absurdity and might be too general.

>>378133561
it being so general is what makes this one such a good utility pasta, sometimes a subdued flavor is best

MGS2 is artistic as fuck.

>>378128235
>not getting dadaism
>posts on 4chan

>>378133037
>The best games are mechanically beautiful
You...
>video games have never featured writing above the level of a comic book or Saturday-morning cartoon
What...
>Deus Ex
>sacrificing a good deal of gameplay to cradle a narrative
Literally never post again, "drooling fucking moron" indescribably doesn't begin to describe you.

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>>378128235
porn is art

>>378135787
what do you mean, deus ex was just a walking simulator about post-humanism right? no room for swimming and poison resistance when you have narrative, that'd make no sense

>>378135787
>...
Pretty sure you're the drooling moron here.

>>378133740
>>378133561
Somebody tells you you are stupid after you say something stupid.
"MUST BE A PASTA!"
You are really trying to fucking prove me right here.
So let me be more specific:
>Video games don't need to be art on anything more than a mechanical basis.
No actual reasoning behind this claim. There is no reason why one aspect of a videogame is by some divine provinience more important than others.
>The best games are mechanically beautiful, especially tried-and-true pioneers of the medium like Mario 64.
Mario 64 is a shallow fucking toy for children. Just because it's basic and it happens to be the one you retarded console fuckers grew up with it does not make it artistic or beautiful. It's a toy. There is absolutely nothing remarkable about it - mechanically or otherwise.

>video games have never featured writing above the level of a comic book or Saturday-morning cartoon.
Several different PAINFULLY stupid things here. First of all, as you next sentence reveals, it's painfully obvious that you actually just don't know about games with good stories. Second of all, comparing videogames to comics as a native thing, after the release of Watchen, Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Yokohama Kaidashi, Persepolis, that comics written by Kundera etc... is painfully stupid and suggest you know absolutely nothing about that medium has transformed over decades.
Carrying on:
>I know a lot of /v/irgins here like to stroke themselves over games like MGS2 or Deus
>they also sacrificed a good deal of gameplay focus to cradle a narrative.
Nobody actually praises Deus Ex for it's story. It's praised for it's FUCKING GAMEPLAY YOU GOD DAMN FUCKING RETARD. Another perfect clue of a console fucking idiot talking about games he never played as part of a medium he does not know anything about, comparing them to another medium that he knows nothing about.
The questions from my previous post still stand. What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>378136176
oh shit you are this assmad
>tells you
>implying we said that and weren't laughing at the plethora of unspecific autistic insults aimed at no one in particular
well if it wasn't pasta before it is now

tabletop RPGs are so much better than games

>>378136502
>oh shit you are this assmad
Mad, yeah. But right, and not a fucking retard. Now tell me what do you think matters more, you piece of shit.

>>378136176
>Mario 64 is a shallow fucking toy for children
So, a video game. I think I'll stop reading here since I can only imagine how pretentious and insipid the rest of your post will be. Mario 64 is beautiful in its level design and movement mechanics, it doesn't need to do anything greater than that.

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>>378136665
>not a fucking retard

>>378109746
I fucking hate gamers.

>>378136665
>Now tell me what do you think matters more,
not blowing a gasket over an idiot insulting your favorite videogames
>[I'm] right
and not being a cocksure faggot

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>>378136176
>Mario 64 is a shallow fucking toy for children. Just because it's basic and it happens to be the one you retarded console fuckers grew up with it does not make it artistic or beautiful. It's a toy. There is absolutely nothing remarkable about it - mechanically or otherwise.

>>378109746
Art form? Yes. It's not "art", but definitely an art form.

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>>378136176
>YOUR GAME IS SHIT, MY GAME IS ART
>nobody praises deus ex for the story
>calling manga comics
yee

>>378136861
>not blowing a gasket over an idiot insulting your favorite videogames
So... somebody else being mad is ACTUALLY more important to you than you not being an absolute pile of trash.
Literally, you are saying "I'm a pile of trash. But that is OK because somebody else got mad over people being piles of trash. I WIN!"

While that does explain a lot about why you are in such a sorry state: it's still fucking terrifying.

>and not being a cocksure faggot
Being right makes one "cocksure faggot". Yeah, you see: You fucking idiots act as if this >>378133037 this pile of shit was not cocksure as fuck. No, it's OK if you retards do it.

What a hypocritical cunts you are. This is no joke actually. It's physically impossible, at this point, for you people to not be wrong. You are going to be wrong, and dumb, and dangerous and annoying to your surroundings because this is how really works with you: You can't question yourself. You will desperately cling to irrelevant fucking non-issues, like "somebody being mad" instead of ever, EVER just maybe asking "is what I'm saying maybe retarded"?

You have no capacity for basic feedback comprehension by this point. The "mad" thing, it's a pure scapegoat here. An easy way to channel attention away from the fact hat you are wrong, and stupid as hell. That means that you will never be able to actually count as human beings at this point.

>>378137493
>So... somebody else being mad is ACTUALLY more important to you than you not being an absolute pile of trash.
at least I'm not a mad absolute pile of trash, so I have that going over you
no one's even agreed with the first post we're all just calling you a faggot

>>378122006
Someone post the greentext story of anon's driftwood-carved dragon statue getting displayed next to a clay man jerking off into its own face

>>378127406
Everybody with enough money and dick-sucking skills can get arts major, only in comparisson with really talented or celver (tricky) ones you will end up at McDonald's anyway.
We have a woman with master degree in arts who works at a warehouse since 2 years already.

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>>378136176
this fucking post

>>378137851
someone don't, it hurts every time I see it
>oh god I couldn't carve all the scales in time I hope it's good enough
>lol clay dude wackin it A R T

>>378128615
And in turn, everything is pointless during the "twist" in the end.
>>378110649
That game is ok, not great.

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>>378137851
>>378138016

>>378135994
>Zone
Opinion discarded forever.

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>>378138281
STOP