Now that the dust actually has settled, can we all agree that

They did good, but they also had far more negatives than positives. The linearity, the balance still being fucked from Gen 6, the oversaturation of legendaries, the lack of new Pokemon...

I understand that Pokemon has become so bloated that it's hard to make a new game and also balance it and make the world interesting. The only real solution, other than just continual budget and size bloat, is to have a universe reset. Start from scratch. Create 150 new Pokemon. Hell, set it on a different planet if you have to. Just do something, because Pokemon is dying a slow and painful death.

>>378071930
No, they were fucking awful.

I had a lot of fun with them just wished their was more post game

>>378072205
Or just do what BW did and only give you new pokemon until after the elite 4. I found that to be greatly refreshing.

>the oversaturation of legendaries
This itself was less of a problem than them just being random battles in the grass. How fucking lazy. Hell, the second-last ultra beast is in a room that looks like they clearly intended to have it standing in the centre, but then they got lazy and didn't bother.

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>>378071930
They are my least favorite in the main series.

I can't believe how high the review scores for them are. Apparently changing the 8 Gym leaders out was enough to trick them into thinking it was a "Bold New Take."

>>378072365
>their

>>378072689
Whoops *there

>>378072365
Eh, I feel like it's more of a quality over quantity thing. There was barely any post-game stuff, but whatever was there was simply amazing. I can't think of anything that can stack up to the Ultra Beasts and its surrounding lore.

Most people admit they're mediocre, it's only a few deluded fanboys who are just performing mental gymnastics because they think they have to love every new thing Game Freak shits out in order to counter-act all the genwunners on Facebook gushing over the older games.

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I feel like I'm the only one that finds all of the games enjoyable. Of course they have their flaws and some are better than others, but I can't think of one game that I didn't enjoy playing through the first time.

>>378072897
Are you joking or have you never played another Pokemon game before? The Ultra Beast hunt was shit, they just made them random encounters because they were too lazy to create overworld models or design new areas for them to reside in. OR/AS had a better post-game legendary hunt than Sun/Moon.

>>378072554
Seriously, the praise the trials got was fucking ridiculous.
>Guys you don't have gyms anymore now you have trials they're totally different
>Game comes out
>Trials just have you doing a short puzzle and then fighting a boss
They're gyms in everything but name and are the simplest gyms have ever been.

>>378071930
Mediocre but it sure isn't Sonic '06 tier like this one faggot keeps claiming.

Oh man a pokemon game is mediocre.

Stop the presses. It's only been happening for a decade plus.

>>378073153
I said the Ultra Beasts and its surround lore, anon. The hunt itself was just a means to an end.

>>378073059
Just because people are critical of a game, it doesn't mean they didn't enjoy it. People are frustrated because the games could be a lot better if Game Freak weren't so incompetent.

>>378073340
What lore? That they came from another dimension? Deoxys already did the extra-terrestrial Pokemon thing.

>>378071930
Like all Pokemon games since G/S/C, they were fun, but not anything revolutionary.
The only thing that could save Pokemon in my opinion would be a proper RPG reboot (not remake).
Go back to Gen 1. 150 monsters. None of this megaevolution stuff. When Pokemon level up, the trainer chooses what to invest in. Not a flat +1 to all stats. You could have a trainer focusing on rock and ground type Pokemon heavily investing in defense stats, or lightning and fire focusing on attack, or completely shift things up and do like a grass type special defense setup.
Also let it work as an rpg for the player. Have branching victory conditions. Let me choose to join team rocket and become an in-game billionaire. Let me participate in the fashion shows and become the greatest that way. But also keep the gyms, and let me do it the traditional way.
I think something else that would be cool is more depth to the gym system. Like, if you beat the gym leader more possibilities open up in the city. And when you become Champion you actually have to be able to defend your title in PvP situations or something.
I don't know, tons could be done to make it more mature and entertaining, but I'm sure Nintendo will keep playing it safe and printing off money the old fashioned way.

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>>378072897
>There was barely any post-game stuff, but whatever was there was simply amazing. I can't think of anything that can stack up to the Ultra Beasts and its surrounding lore.
What the fuck is wrong with you? The UBs were just you getting told a few lines about them by the detective guy and then wandering off to find them in the grass. Then the last one has no lore whatsoever, just an offhand mention and then you find him in the grass in a cave and no one gives a shit. And what was there besides? The battle tree which has fuck all trainers compared to BW2's world tournament, and a battle with Red/Blue that's way easier than the Champion was? Get real, S&M's post-game was a joke. There was fuck all in it and everything that was in it had been done better before.

>>378073523
Why not make a completely different game if you're going to completely overhaul the series? Why do those things have to be in a Pokemon game when they could be in another game that could not have arbritrary restrictions? Game Freak have spent 20 years tweaking the current Pokemon battle system, they're not going to abandon it.

>>378071930
They were good and were a hundred times better than anything from gen 6.

>>378073365
You have a point there.
>>378073785
I agree, but some people will say otherwise.

I just don't understand why the post game isn't as fleshed out as it once was. Emerald, Platinum, and HGSS were great and Black and White 2 were fine too why doesn't GF do something like that again?

>>378073523
Also I've always found the leveling up mechanics weird when it comes to movesets.
Like if you're supposed to be evolving, it only makes since that your moves evolve as well.
Instead of randomly learning how to giga drain with no previous experience in draining at lv. 40, pokemon should have to progress in their moves.
go from tail whip to vine whip to razor leaf, and so on.

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Sun and Moon are the worst games.

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>>378074740
Leveling up movesets in general are weird, e.g, Lotad gets Energy Ball which is a pretty strong Grass Type move at around level 50(?) but basically pretty late. It evolves into Lombre at level 14, but it can't learn Energy Ball by level up anymore, just the Lotad can get it naturally but you have to stop it from evolving for so long.

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>>378074232
Effort. Can you imagine Game Freak bothering to remake all of these characters with S&M's new model standard?

>>378075023
Swap BW with Platinum and your bizarre colour chart would be perfect.

>>378071930
Eh, I liked the setting -- Hawaii is a genuinely cool place. But there wasn't particularly enough of it. Especially that pathetic fucking endgame zone. Jesus Christ was it bad.

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>>378073183
I know which faggot you're talking about, but I'm not him. And he annoys me too because I was the one who originally wrote pic related and he keeps using the cap to shitpost with. You can identify him though because he always uses the same filename.

>>378075381
See this is why I wouldn't mind getting Stars or whatever game they are making this year, I wouldn't mind waiting until Q4 2018 if it means more content.

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>tfw S/M was the first pokemon game I gave up playing mid way through and haven't touched since
I guess it had to happen eventually

>>378076028
I mean, most of that is right.

>>378071930
Yep. It took me a while but I feel you're right.

I enjoyed the characters, story and 'atmosphere' the more than the rest of the series.

But the routes and map layout was by far the worst. And while the story was interesting, it still felt half finished.

>Best music in any Pokemon game yet.
>Best setting.
>Best story.
>Best characters.
>No HMs.
>Real actual overworld models instead of chibi deforms.

There were a lot of good things about them. Well worth a single playthrough, but the game's are ultimately crippled by their embarrassing lack of challenge.

>>378071930
Lol I knew this by the middle of the game but /v/ and /vp/ were so enthralled by a game that wasn't as shit as X/Y and ORAS that they were hailing it as one of the strongest entries. In due time its flaws became glaring.

Same thing will happen to BotW.

>>378076547
>I mean, most of that is right.
Of course it is. But the other faggot reposting it with the BTFO filename just wants to rile people up rather than talk about it, which of course makes people disregard the points made in the image. That or people just say "it's all complaining that it's too easy", which is only a small part of the problem.

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>>378076805
>Best music in any Pokemon game yet.
>Best setting.
>Best story.
>Best characters.

>>378071930
Worst of the series by far

>>378075542
>being this objectively wrong

S&M actually made me miss X&Y.

Better than Gen 1, which isn't saying much considering i think RBY are the worst in the series.

>>378076805
>best music

FUCK the godawful Ride music. Seriously, one of the worst themes in the series and it's everywhere

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>>378076240
You and I both know it won't

>>378073474
Deoxys wasn't an Ultra Beast.

>>378071930
>>378071930
>all those shitty non skippable cutscenes that make MGS4 look good
>that trash post game
>the handholding out the ass.
jesus fuck they took the garbage of x and y to a whole new level.

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I just thought having so many blatantly scrapped and unfinished areas left in the game looked really bad.
And having no way to know in-game which Zygarde cells you already got. Those are my only two big criticisms.

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Name a SINGLE pokemon game with better post game than Emerald.

>>378078876
You know people are going to come in saying BW2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io3ta9T5cHI

>>378078683
At least the cutscenes in MGS are fun to watch, for the most part. There's nothing fun about watching some fuck standing around motionlessly and then watching some text box appear

>>378078469
He might as well have been, it wouldn't change anything.

>>378078876
GSC and by extension HGSS.
>>378078948
And also this.

>>378079331
Are you the same retard from /vp/ who said that space is a dimension?

>>378079237
I was mildly amused whenever someone talks to the player about something serious or emotional and the camera then zooms in on your character's completely empty smiling face, but that was it.

>>378079331
Are you retarded? Deoxys is a virus that came from a meteor inside the Pokemon Universe we know.

Ultra Beasts are Pokemon that come from an entirely different universe where a Pikachu wouldn't exist.

>>378079530
What difference does it make that the Ultra Beasts were from a different dimension rather than being from space? The only thing that really matters was that they were not of this world.

>>378079634
Explain how being from a different universe had any bearing on the plot.

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>when you get to the Ultra Closet

>>378079785
You're asking stupid silly ass questions.

Pikachu is also not an Ultra Beast.
>b-but why would it matter
Is how you sound. The story in Sun and Moon was revolved around the Ultra Wormhole that connected that universe with the normal one. That's where those beings arrived from.

Now THERE'S my reason to buy a switch.

>>378080219
The original post claimed that Ultra Beasts had good lore. Please explain how "coming from a wormhole" is good lore.

And speaking of Ultra Space, the small trip you had into Ultra Space was also dissapointing. Pokemon Platinum had the Distortion World, a large sprawling realm where the laws of physics were turned on their head. Ultra Space was literally a corridor. And they could have made Lusamine's final battle like a totem battle, where she would call Nihilego as back-up. But instead it was just a regular trainer battle.

>>378076805
>embarrassing lack of challenge
Essentially you intentionally over leveled and blame the game for it now being easy.

The games are the most challenging in the series by far, it's not the games fault you went out of your way to get you pokemon 15-30 levels higher than they should be.

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>>378072205
>he only real solution, other than just continual budget and size bloat, is to have a universe reset.

I loved BW exactly for that reason. No Pokemon from other regions, which means that you cannot rely on the tried and true tricks and Pokemon (like early Magikarp -> Gyarados). It has an utter sense of discovery, whenever you stepped onto a route chances are you're gonna encounter something you've never seen before. 10/10 trainer design and 'Murica being the settings also help.

Sadly though they went full Kantofaggotry in Gen 6, with giving you Kanto starters for no reason, and sprinkling Kanto rehashes everywhere in Kalos.

With Gen 7 as you said, the game is utterly oversaturated. You can catch Pseudo legendary at Route 1 (Bagon) which is ridiculous. You have to make an effort to catch Gen 7 pokemon like Cutiefly while the game threw jugs and jugs of old Pokemon like Zubats, Oddishes, Caterpies at you.

>>378074232
>comparing 2 deluxe versions, a remake, and a sequel to the first games in a gen
You, and everyone like you that does this are literally fucking autistic and just straight up stupid.

They might be good for all I know.
But I'll never find out because I can't bring myself to get through that hideously tedious intro.

>>378081806
Maybe learn about each individual Ultra Beast, and learn more than just about them being from a "worm hole" and you'll understand. All the details you need are in the game. It's your fault if you lack the attention span to read the games text.

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Adored:

>the new Pokemon, IMO strongest batch of designs in the series
>the music
>Team Skull
>the concept of alternate Pokemon forms

Anywhere from "alright" to "mediocre" to "outright bad":

>Everything else

>>378078876
>Battle Frontier
>good
Take off those goggles.

>>378083524
>Detective guy telling you three lines of flavour text about each beast
>Good lore
Fuck off.

>>378083524
The Ultra Beasts have no more more depth to them than any other Pokemon with a Pokedex entry. If you seriously think that Sun/Moon were deep then you need to play more video games or read more books.

>>378083660
>Implying that's all there is in the game that tells you about them
You take pills for that ADD?

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>>378071930
3D was a mistake. I loved Pokemon and have been playing from Gen 1. There's no genwunnering as I'm never off the train, from when RBY came out when I was 7 to when BW2 came out when I was in college.

Gen 6,7 and ORAS were the only game where I didn't replay it with different configuration of team. Played it once and feels like it was meh. The 3D models feels really souless. Like it was the Gamecube Pokemon stadium game. It's not quite there yet to make the pokemon expressive as the 2D sprite. Everything feels sanitized just like the lazy anime backdrop of generic green forest they always have.

>>378083695
But we're not talking about other games or comparing them to anything other than other Pokemon games here.

I think they were mediocre in the same way that the core mechanics are stale and that the games are aimed toward a younger demographic than I belong to, but I think they did a lot of things right that I would like to see continued like removing HMs, alternate forms, totem Pokemon, having a more involved story. etc. I also really like the Ultra Beasts as far as letting Gamefreak go nuts with their designs.

I think the only things that I actively disliked were the Lusamine fight and the wild Pokemon selection being mostly balls. This is probably the first Pokemon game where I could not find a team I actually liked.

>>378083785
And the lore in Sun/Moon is no deeper than the lore in any other Pokemon game.

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>gamefreak released a game on steam
>3ds is dead

maybe perhaps we will get a pokemon vidya on pc that isnt some fanmade mmo or rom hack?

>>378083527
People liked team skull? I guess if a lot of people never dealt with or met any wiggers it'd be fun. I just found them an annoying chore.

>>378071930
You sound like an apologist, they were definitely the worst.

>>378072291
This man knows what's up

>>378073059
Fuck off back to /vp/ you shill, Shit and Poo were the worst Pokemon games by far

>>378076805
>complaining about lack of challenge in a literal children's game

>>378076483
yeah me too, it became a shore instead of a fun thing to do.

>>378073059
I enjoyed them too anon, it's customary in the pokemon fanbase to just shit on every new gen that comes out. It's always the same shit anyways, so I atleast appreciated SuMo's attempts to do something a little different, even if in the end they were token efforts at best.

Personally I liked the switch to a true 3D world, the new pokemon, the hawaii setting and the Z move mechanic.

They were good. Only game I actually beat in 2016.

This is /v/ though and pokemon discussion is shit here. It's mostly just gen 3/4 cocksucking and romhack shilling. You're better off making this thread on gamefaqs

>>378072205
i thought i'd like the set up of sun but it turns out i miss the more linear w/badges style. what gets me is why don't they switch it up like romhacks? I like prism because you start with something different and that affects the order of gyms and crap.

sun/moon didn't give us pidgeys and rattata type pokemon but they didn't give much of a variety. Plus making a different variety of pokemon show up in the different versions would encourage more trading. They already have what they need to make a good game, they just need to be less stiff about what pokemon show up and shit.

>>378084663
Same here, it's not everything I wanted but it was fun nonetheless

>>378084731
also, fuck trainers having like 3 pokemon max. i don't know why i dislike that so much

>>378072205
>Pokemon is dying a slow and painful death.

Nigga Pokemon is and always will be popular.

>>378071930
I played them after finishing the garbage-tier X/Y so it was a great experience for me.

>>378072205
>Create 150 new Pokemon. Hell, set it on a different planet if you have to. Just do something, because Pokemon is dying a slow and painful death.

Opinion discarded

>>378084951
The only thing I'd add is a proper hard mode and maybe some more post game stuff.

I also don't get why people complain about Pokemon distribution was bad. It wasn't like Gen 2 where you're stuck with shitmons until the end.

>>378076805
>Best music in any Pokemon game yet.
Incorrect
>Best setting
Definitely incorrect
>Best story
Incorrect
>Best characters
Incorrect
>No HMs
A step in the right direction, but it wasn't very well implemented. The entire reason HMs existed in the first place was so that there were organic blockades in the world that limited progression, allowing for a linear traversal across a non-linear map (which in turn allows the developers to handle level scaling throughout the region). The more recent Pokemon games tend to just have an NPC block your path rather than designing an interesting region that requires you to use your Pokemons' ability to traverse it. Not binding Pokemon abilities to move slots was a good thing, but the places where you needed to use Ride Pokemon abilties were so limited that they may as well have not existed (since Tauros and Charizard being the only ones with major use throughout the game). Also replacing the bike with Tauros was a stupid idea since now you have to hold a button to go full speed.
>Real actual overworld models instead of chibi deforms
That is more a fault with gen 6 rather than being a positive point for gen 7.

>>378072205
>Just do something, because Pokemon is dying a slow and painful death.

Pokemon is literally experiencing a 2nd Pokemania. What are you talking about?

Gameplay flaws aside, the character customization in this game was pretty good. They let you turn your trainer into a gyaru pretty easily and early on if you pick a female trainer

>>378085082
X and Y are 50x better than these two.

>>378084663
Everyone (at least on 4chan) enjoyed BW and BW2 at launch, particularly the latter. XY and SuMo get shit on because they deserve it, not because people are being contrarian.

>>378071930
first pokemon game I've played since ruby

I liked it desu

>>378085473
I found them boring, easy and it was annoying the quantity of free pokemon they give you through the game.
But, hey, tastes differ and I'm no one to say you're wrong.

>>378085334
>2nd Pokemania
It's not even close. No game will ever manage to achieve what Pokemon did in the late 90s.

>>378073523
The stat system you just described is pretty much how it actually works already. There are no "flat +1's" to stats, they're all determined by the base, genetic factors, and how it's trained.

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>>378071930
Bad Pokemon games: Red/Blue/Yellow/, X/Y, Ruby/Sapphire, Pearl/Diamond

Okay Pokemon games: Gold/Silver/Crystal, Emerald, Heartgold/Soul Silver, OR/AS, Leafgreen Firered, Platinum

Good: Black/White1&2, Sun and Moon

A lot of you are either super nostalgic or just hating the latest entry as usual. The majority of pokemon games have been pretty meh. Sun and moon at least tried new things but the fact of the matter is you may as well not pick up pokemon at all unless you plan to battle after you beat the game otherwise they're sad excuses for an RPG.

>>378085835
>>378085473
>>378085082
IMO, XY is about on par with RS. It's pretty good, but not great. It has a lot going for it, but the annoying friends, casualization, and lack of postgame content really hurts it.

I stand by that if Z was a thing it would easily be the best pokemon game.

>>378078876
>>378078948
>>378079470
Platinum, HGSS, BW2

>>378085941
Halo came pretty close in the mid-late 2000's, the hype leading up to Halo 3 was approaching 90's pokemon tier normie cultural saturation.

>>378071930
>Now that the dust actually has settled,
Fuck off asshole, quit changing this shit just to keep it from getting filtered out.

>>378073523
You have a bunch of terrible opinions just make a different game.

>>378085473
Did you play X and Y? Those were fucking awful holy shit. Worst champion so far in the series as well as plenty of in game shit that just never seemed to be explained. Like they had a plan for a third game and then realized X and Y sucked so hard they cancelled it.

>>378086106
What did Sun/Moon try that was new? There was Z-moves and Totem battles, that was it. GSC introduced genders, breeding, weather, time and hold items. RSE introduced a rehauled IV/EV system, a graphical PC interface, alternate forms, abilities and natures. Diamond and Pearl introduced Wi-Fi trading/battling and the physical/special split. The changes that Sun/Moon make are insignificant in comparison. They didn't really abandon the whole gym structure like people claim, since trials are basically gyms in all but name.

>>378086271
Halo never had a TV series, movies, a trading card game, a shit ton of spin-offs and a shit ton of merchandise all at once.

>>378086785
>What did Sun/Moon try that was new?

you can spin around and do a cool pose

>>378085138
If Sun and Moon had a proper post game they'd probably be up there as one of the best mainline games. I thought the Pokemon distribution was fine..even if there's not too many new ones there's still plenty of Pokemon that you can use.

I thought the game was good for what it was:

- Broke gym formula
- Gave important trainers more characterization
- Had two interesting factions (Team Skull, basically a less edgy Team Rocket.
Aether Foundation reminded me of Team Galactic)
- Best pokemon designs(opinion)

the problem with recent pokemon games is perfecting the post game. It doesn't have to be the best, but at least enough to hold people until the next iteration. Also if they could just focus on proper balancing. Maybe give every pokemon a unique move to seperate it from the pack.

Anybody who's not a manchild should never discuss the Pokémon franchise seriously. That's what /vp/ is for. Pokémon is and always will be targeted at kids. This means that Game Freak will never innovate the franchise on a large scale. They don't even have to do so because they can get away with putting in minimum effort and their games will always sell millions 100% of the time. Pokémania is some sort of inexplicable mass obsession on a global scale. Once you've been a fan for years and realise that it'll always be shallow and soulless you'll wonder why you were so obsessed with it in the first place.

>>378087193
Compared to BW2 and XY, the Pokemon selection is dog shit. A significant portion of the new Pokemon are locked behind <10% encounter rates so you have to go out of your way to find them if you want them on your team. People shit on GSC for making Johto Pokemon rare but SuMo seems to get a free pass for some reason.

They're alright. I can play them just fine, but they aren't going on any top 5 lists

>>378084478
>You sound like an apologist, they were definitely the worst.
I'm not sure what you think "mediocre at best means".

>>378086785
You're just listing shit that is now standard.
>genders
Crystal introduced that but that doesn't make it better than any game that came after it.

Whats the point of mentioning half of that shit when its half of this shit is number one: only possible because the game went to a new platform that allowed those advancements like wifi only being possible because of the game being on the DS. Like half of this shit were changes the game needed or ideally would have been there to begin with had the technology been there at the point of those older releases.

Sun and moon tried some new things in terms of story and what your usual objectives are and also removed the need for HM moves streamlining a lot of the game.

Z-moves are quite a bit of a change if you actually get into competitive gameplay. Yeah there are a couple missteps like the way they handled online play this time and some other things but overall I feel that the main story had enough variety and change to actually stand out.

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>>378087496
with the list of pokemon games that even exist as it is I don't see how. There are probably 4-5 games that even qualify as good because the whole series bar some remakes and sequels has been very average and bare bones.

>>378085385
The character customisation in S&M was garbage, what the fuck are you talking about? It was a massive downgrade compared to what XY offered, but I guess you only like it because you can change your skin tone now.

>>378086386
The dust has settled by now though, it's not a shitposting thread made one hour after the game's release.

>>378087420
>Broke gym formula
Trials were exactly the same as gyms except there was a Totem Pokemon at the end, it didn't really change anything.
>Gave important trainers more characterization
Most characters didn't really undergo any transformation throughout the game. The closest any of them got to development was Lillie, whose only progress throughout the game was being able to run across a bridge by herself.
>Had two interesting factions (Team Skull, basically a less edgy Team Rocket. Aether Foundation reminded me of Team Galactic)
Team Skull were alright, Team Aether had the same problem as Team Flare in that the game just forces them as the evil guys about 3/4 through the game because Game Freak forgot they needed they needed the evil team to do something during the game. All the other evil teams from gen 1 to gen 5 slowly built up to their master plan throughout the game, even Team Flare did too to some extent. Team Aether don't really do that.
>Best pokemon designs(opinion)
This is an opinion so I won't argue this, although I disagree. And most of the new Pokemon are incredibly uncommon so you probably won't see them in the wild unless you explicitly hunt for them.

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>>378087827
Maybe if you played a girl because I'm not too sure what X/Y had over S/M but playing as a guy holy shit X/Y's wardrobe was garbage for anyone isn't a fuckin fedora wearing m'lady faggot.

Even then Sun and Moons grills are 10x cuter than anything in X/Y so I ask, which are you? A fedora wearing faggot or just retarded, so both?

>>378088080
Except I did play as a girl and XY had far more clothing options than S&M did and the player character in S&M looks like shit, she doesn't compare to Serena at all.

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>>378085941
>It's not even close.
Yeah okay. You have Pokemon Go that was made and still is the most popular mobile game and fastest selling mobile game in history in just two months. It is known as a cultural phenomenon and marked with achievements of promoting physical activity, social gathering, etc. etc.

Then Pokemon Sun and Moon having the best marketing of any other Pokemon game, leading them to become the fastest selling Nintendo video game of all time.

We also have the influx of Pokemon mobile apps that keep the normies interested and become some of the most downloaded apps on both iOS and the Play Store

Don't forget about the hugely successful social media campaign TPC have going for both Japan and the US, with songs, special videos, Pokemon Generations, Twitter polls, celebrity appearances, gameplay trailers, etc. etc.

And it was reported January of this year that the TCG and toy figurines broke records, marking a new high.

>"According to figures recorded by the NPD Group Toys retail tracking service, the Pokémon property recorded a 285% increase in sales throughout 2016 against market growth of 6% in the whole toy market. In the last three months, October to December, Pokémon increased sales by 512% versus the 7.7% market growth."
Source: Business Wire

And finally the anime, which thanks to Pokemon TV and the deal with Netflix, is available, all seasons, movies, and specials, for everyone to watch. The Kalos League finale match between Ash and Alain had the highest rating of any XY/XY&Z episode on TV Tokyo during its airing, and it was trending all day on both Western and Japanese twitter. Both the dub and JP version of the battle have over 2 million and 3 million views on Youtube alone, respectively.

And the 20th anniversary movie of the anime is debuting this Summer in both Japan and the Japan Expo in Paris, marking the first time a Pokemon movie has aired in the West before Japan.

Also, Pokemon is now available in China. So fuck off anon.

>>378087614
They may be standard now but they were new at the time. All the things that the earlier games added impacted the metagame far more than Z-moves did.

And like I mentioned, the difference in terms of the story was only skin-deep, you're still pretty much clearing 8 gyms and becoming the champion. And the HM streamlining process began all the way back in gen 5. All Sun/Moon did was make them no longer require a move slot (and ORAS had Lati@s flying which was basically a precursor to the Ride Pokemon).

>>378086785
>since trials are basically gyms in all but name.
How?

>>378088454
>Do a simplistic puzzle and fight a boss, usually having several mandatory lesser fighters on the way

How are they not?

>>378088362
If you honestly think this then you were simply too young to be alive back then. Pokemon was far more popular back then than it is now, which is why RBY's sales figures have remained untouched ever since. And bear in mind that it managed to reach this level of popularity without the need for social media.

>>378088575
>If you honestly think this then you were simply too young to be alive back then
I feel like the people who say this weren't even alive or interested to know or be into Pokemon back then. Of course the popularity will never be as high as it was back then, but to think we aren't experiencing a second one is retarded. It doesn't have to be as popular as the previous to be another Pokemania. The fact is the series is extremely popular right now and it hasn't been this popular since the 90s.

>>378072205
>Start from scratch. Create 150 new Pokemon.
They already did that, is called Black and White
And for various reasons a lot of people on /vp/ seem to hate it.

>>378089174
/vp/ is retarded, so who cares?

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>>378088575
I know Pokemon was really popular back then, but it was also because of the anime, which was aired in pretty much everywhere Latin American fag but the games themselves weren't that popularized as they are now, which pretty much every person can get into now.

But regardless of anything, Pokemon actually is pretty pretty popular, well known and established and it's pretty stupid to think that Pokemon is dying, at much it's switching markets to make it accessible to both young and older audiences.

>>378088897
>The fact is the series is extremely popular right now and it hasn't been this popular since the 90s.
Then why hasn't Sun/Moon outsold Black/White, X/Y or any other pair of games that debuted a generation? The reason they are the fastest selling Pokemon games is because everyone already has a 3DS.

Obviously Pokemon is still a popular series but this generation is no more popular than any other generation since GSC.

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>>378088293
>a serena fag

Serena is fucking shit garbage. Calem should have just pushed her off that bridge after their last fight and ended her shitty existence. May was shit too but at least she was good wife material but no Serena is fucking trash nigga.

>and the player character in S&M looks like shit

>I want animal crossing tier character models instead of full body characters

just stop posting hereand don't go ruin /vp/ with those shitty opinions either there's enough autism over there already.

>>378089405
>>I want animal crossing tier character models instead of full body characters
I never said or implied this. S&M FeMC's design is trash, and she doesn't have a single good outfit to wear in the entire game. Serena in S&M's graphical style would only look even better.

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>>378089512
S&M FeMC's design is trash
That's fucking stupid, Chicken chan's outfit is pretty good, the setting, and the style makes her look exactly as someone who is living in an island but doesn't exactly belong there. And she's cuter that Serena.

>and she doesn't have a single good outfit to wear in the entire game
And that's subjective, the lack of variety is a problem indeed, but just because you don't find a good outfit doesn't mean that automatically there isn't anything good to wear.

>>378089303
>but the games themselves weren't that popularized as they are now
Sales figures suggest otherwise

>>378089693
If her outfit was good then she wouldn't have earnt the nickname "Chicken-chan" in the first place. Which she got because her headgear is fucking retarded.

>>378089808
Her headgear is fucking adorable, and even that's subjective.

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>>378089512
outfits are subjective like >>378089693
said and each game has different regional influences to its fashion but what is objective is Serena being shit.

>>378071930
eat my shorts

The new designs are great, but the constant onslaught of cutscene after cutscene was just too much and I ended up dropping it after around 20 hours. It felt pretty refreshing compared to X&Y which were legitimately bad games, but I think at this point I'm just tired of Pokemon. I'll probably give it a rest for a few games.

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>>378089375
>Then why hasn't Sun/Moon outsold Black/White
Not that anon but this is an unfair comparison. Black and White sold so much because it was a marketed as a soft reboot of the series on the DS, which almost everyone and their mother owned. There are more people that own a DS than the people who own a 3DS.

And even so, SM is 2 million units away from selling more than BW, RS and X&Y. It already surpassed ORAS, HGSS, BW2, AND FRLG. It is 5 million away from surpassing Diamond & Pearl, which are the most selling outside of Gen 1 and 2.

>but this generation is no more popular than any other generation since GSC.
Let me just bring you back to the sales once again. X/Y, RS, and BW have all been out for 4+ years, while SM has only been out for 7 months. SM has been out for 7 months and is already close to surpassing the sales of some of the most popular games of their respective consoles.

They are far more popular than any previous generation since GSC.

Can anybody explain playing more than one Pokémon game to me? I only played the original two, and I loved them, but what do future iterations bring to the table besides "new" Pokémon?

>>378090357
>It already surpassed ORAS, HGSS, BW2, AND FRLG.
Wow, it sold better than the remakes and the cheap cash-in sequel! But sold worse than every other new entry! Wow!

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They weren't AWFUL. They were just bland, and not memorable.

yeah, okay they were bad what am I saying

Post YFW the Diamond and Pearl remakes end up being the best entries in the franchise.

I didn't like them. I still haven't finished it. I also don't think I like what it did for the series competitively.

Also my favorites were gold/silver, and x/y.

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>>378071930
SM is objectively better than any game from gen 4 or 5. Anyone who would deny this is a Sinnohkid or Unovabortion.

>>378090496
>Wow, it sold better than the remakes and the cheap cash-in sequel!
Thanks for ignoring almost the entire post, dumbass. With the momentum the games have, they'll have outsold all previous entries besides DP, GS, and RB by the end of the year.

>>378090702
Its sinnohfetus you fucking faggot

In this post I will detail what pokemon really needs for a good story so listen up faggots.

1) New pokemon is a given, the amount of new pokemon is whats important.

2) If you're a casual who never battles online just skip this but consider that you are cheapening the experience for yourself and missing out on like a third or half the whole game. Just don't make them all slow shit mons who lose to the rest of the already established cast.

3) Different diffculties like at least a hard mode. It is important that this does not have to be unlocked in some autistic way.

4) less gen one pandering.

5) less linearity. It will take more work and is a difficult task but give the player at least 3 options of a way to progress. Sure there are obstacles between where you start and the first pseudo legendary you can catch I'm not asking to be able to go to a late game locale in the first 15 min but for the road to get there should have options in the way you choose to tackle each trainer and gym.

The first three gyms rock>bug>water, maybe you fight the water gym first and the rock gym last and the gym leader's pokemon and levels scale depending on who you fight first.

6) bring back Gen 6's online system or something like it.

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>>378090878
I meant more of a good game than story woops. Still I'm sure you all understand what I mean anyway.

>>378090878
You could work the difficulty settings into the paths. Have the different paths be easy,medium,hard. Like designed that way.

I dunno OP, I've played gens 1, 2, 3, 5 and 7 and I thought 7 was a fantastic game, maybe the in-game music is a bit weak outside of battle themes but the gameplay changes were phenomenal and Z-Moves are actually really well balanced. I loved the designs of the new mons, particularly Mimikyu, Salazzle, Silvally, Mudsdale, etc. There's a good mix of nice, basic and simple designs that don't go over the top like Mudsdale and Mimikyu and some crazy designs that're just all over the place like Type:Null. The story was fine and I like how they incorporated both a friendly and a serious rival, and fucking Guzma is awesome. In fact the only real complaint I have about the game is that Type: Null is perhaps the worst Pokemon name ever devised

>>378091065
but then you just go down the easy path when you have to and just one shot everything. Scaling works better I think.

>>378071930
They're the best mainline pokemon games though.

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>>378075023
this is a rating chart for a 8 year old

>>378074232
Emerald and Platinum are literally just "muh battle frontier", same reason why everyone praises HGSS despite it being an extremely shallow remake that fixes none of the numerous issues that GSC had.

>>378090878
>3) Different diffculties like at least a hard mode.
It boggles the mind that they had this in BW2 and then scrapped it in future games.

>>378076805
It's literally the hardest mainline game.
If you're looking for challenge then you're playing the wrong series.

>>378085320
>defending HMs

>>378085675
BW and BW2 are XY-tier though, they're massively overrated and everything that people criticize SM for is present in Gen V just as much or worse.

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>>378091118
>maybe the in-game music is a bit weak outside of battle themes
But the standard battle theme is the worst song in S&M.

> The story was fine and I like how they incorporated both a friendly and a serious rival
Speaking of, this reminded me of part of the story being shit.
>Gladion confronts Hapu about halfway through the game saying that his cheerfulness is a facade and he just doesn't try because he's scared of failing
>Hapu has a chance to actually become a character instead of fucking nothing on legs
>"Haha that Gladion is crazy huh guys well let's go!"
>Never comes up again

>>378088506
You have to do it all at once though and totem pokemon are harder than gyms ever were.

>>378091873
>You have to do it all at once
So exactly the same as gyms?
>and totem pokemon are harder than gyms ever were.
Haha, good joke.

>>378091942
You can leave gyms at any time, once you start a trial you're confined to the trial area.

>gyms
>harder than trials
(lol

>>378092127
Oh, so that's what you meant. It hardly matters, given that most of them are extremely short. Hell, the first two have the most battles to go through of any of them.

>trials
>harder than gyms
Maybe if you're using XY as your standard.

>>378092260
Name one difficult gym battle

>>378071930

They're much better than gen 5 and gen 6.

>>378092310
Whitney.

Pokemon that need to be deleted

Geodude Line
Zubat line
Magikarp line
All regional Rodents besides the Zigzagoon, Bidoof and Bunnebly line
Eevee line
Goomy line
Voltorb line
Diglett line

>>378092519
Why the hell would you keep Bidoof?

>>378092505
Maybe if you're six
>gastly from sprout tower
>traded machop

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>>378071930
Way better than XY and DP, that's for sure. It's still Pokemon so it'll always be mediocre no matter what.

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>>378092590
>Trading with NPCs past gen 1 and its mandatory farfetch'd

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>>378092519
>Zubat line

>>378089174
>>378089212

Yea b/w were great

>>378092672
>not catching a female geodude
>moving the goalposts

>>378092734
You don't know what moving the goalposts means.

>>378071930
I dont think anyone would argue against this. Its prob one of the weakest generations released, next to r/s/e.

Will any music be as good as TEAM PLASMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB87TndHlFg

>>378092785
>give a solution
>th-that doesn't count it should ACTUALLY meet this criteria that I'm introducing now!
that is the definition of moving the goalposts

>>378092589
It's hideousness is endearing and I feel it's earned it's existence to always being my Go To HMmon.

>>378092716
Nope. It's long overstayed it's welcome and kept Pokemon caves from having anything interesting fauna for far too long. That's why the Geodude line has to go too. Swoobat and Rogenrola deserve to go as well if Game Freak just used them as cave filler after deleting those lines but I'm giving the benefit of the doubt

>>378092860
But that was just a jab at one half of your solution. And your "solution" doesn't do much to change the difficulty involved. If you want to say it's not hard because you can get one specific pokemon that works decently as a counter, you're completely ignoring that most of the series' strategy comes from building an appropriate party. Which is something S&M's totems never require you to do.

I liked the main story. It's standard anime stuff, but I enjoyed fighting a mother in a jellyfish suit

But the post game was boring and burned me out

>>378072205
>Pokemon is dying a slow and painful death

Weren't S/M the 2nd or 3rd best selling ever?

>>378093052
Because Whitney isn't hard and if you actually have trouble with her than you may be six years old.

Meanwhile Totem Lurantis or Wishiwashi can easily fuck you up if you aren't prepared due to their partner pokemon and their items, which Gym Leaders don't utilize.

>>378093083
No. Fastest selling =/= best selling. They have the lowest total sales of every new entry.

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>>378092519
>Not liking zubat

>>378093165
>Meanwhile Totem Lurantis or Wishiwashi can easily fuck you up if you aren't prepared due to their partner pokemon and their items
Maybe if you're six. Oh look, I can do it too.

>>378091796

That bit at the end before the track loops is pretty baller

>>378093195
True, but only just behind R/S and X/Y

Also, they were the 2nd highest selling game on the 3DS, which doesn't suggest a dying franchise

>>378092519
I disagree with all but the rat line.

I want to like Gumshoos/Yungoos but it feels like it was trying too hard to be a Bidoof esque shitposting meme

>>378092519
crobat and gyarados are based. Electrode and Dugtrio are OK. The rest are shite though, ill admit.

>>378093165
And then there are literal faggots out there who thought they could one-shot Totem Mimikyu via Z-Move only to get fucked because they forgot about its ability.

>>378071930
still better than x/y, I miss caves

>>378071930

not really

despite the negatives which are easily overblown and the universal agreement of being rushed, there was still more positives than negatives

>>378093206
>>378093402
>>378093778
Gyrados and Crobat need to go. They're crutch Pokemon for people unwilling to try new things.

It's like you're a grown adult who only wants to eat baby paste because it's familiar