Do you agree with him?

>>377818024
If treads are superior to legs, why did we all evolve legs instead of treads?

>>377818024
Yes.
But this is fiction we're talking about here and rule of cool takes precedence

>>377818090
Evolution != efficiency

What SIGINT says is basically the real-world answer to people wondering if we could build a REX in real life. It's cool for a vidya but would be terrible and inefficient IRL. These kinds of questions have been asked thousands of times, especially by fans of mecha anime like "Why aren't we building gundams already?!"

>>377818024
>big boss proceeds to make 3 metal gears over the following decades

>>377818024
but in near future they managed to make good enough walking tank.

>>377818024
I always saw Metal Gears more as walking nuclear launch sites than tanks.

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>>377819228

Which are unnecessary since they've had mobile nuke launchers since the 60's

>>377819538
Look me in the eye and tell me which is more aesthetic.

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You know it's gonna happen one day

>>377818090
Treads aren't useful for climbing trees to reach bananas.

Tanks don't have to catch bananas.

>>377819538
IIRC the point of Metal Gears is that they use railguns to somehow launch nukes at huge distances in a way that you can't really track the launch or trajectory. And they're mechs because their creator is an anime nerd.

>>377818304
I think an ultimate mech creation would definitely be bipedal, or even four-legged, it'd just require an enormous amount of adaptable intelligence to deal with the volatility of terrain and like the possibility of being destabilised by external forces like weather or other objects. They're making a lot of robots these days at universities and stuff with different number of legs so I think it's plausible that heavy diesel/industry machinery will follow sometime in the future

>>377819694

>launch trajectory

Who cares? Fire off nukes from a submarine in international waters or from a plane in enemy or other foreign airspace which masks who the attacker was although the suspect list is pretty fucking short.

It's a moot point anyway. The Soviets/Russians have an automated system that will launch all remaining nukes in the event the entire leadership is kill. US nukes subs have the discretion to fire their nukes at will in the event US command is kill.

>>377818090
The biological equivalent to treads are numerous legs, e.g.centipedes. We didn't develop them because evolution is a crappy trial-and-error algorithm.

>>377819694
Why not put railguns on subs?

>>377818090
Why didn't any biological creature develop wheels for legs

>>377821252
>they're mechs because their creator is an anime nerd

>>377821686
How'd you provide a wheel-like organ with blood?

I wish I were a leader of a country as I would definitely give the go ahead to build a Metal Gear.

>>377819694
I think the high-tech MGs like the REX, ST-84 and ZEKE used railguns, the other ones were just supposed to be walking silos that launched regular ICMBs or whatever would be the alternative to be launched from a giant fucking robot. REX was the game changer because the nuke launched from the rail gun would be undetectable.

>>377818090
athists btfo

>>377818496
>And Sigint makes one himself four decades later.

>>377818090
Because humans are smaller than tanks, and have different needs. Also, tanks have actual designers, while living organisms just received a series of "good enough" patches to cover any immediate issues that cropped up over the course of billions of years.

>>377822218
this is why you're not a national leader

>>377822132
Do insect carapaces need blood?

>>377822605
>implying i wouldn't score the millennial vote

>>377819670
But Titans are only useful for taking down infantry and other Titans.

Tanks are useful for destroying literally everything and never being destroyed.

>>377822707
do it then

>>377822634
How'd you rotate it, though? It's complicated.

And a lot of insects have a much better travel system - flight.

>>377823147
You won't be laughing when my REX makes its way slowly across your country side.

>>377823258
try me

So why did kojima do it in all previous games?
Is he retarded or is he trying to be funny.

>>377824206
Metal Gear Solid had a mecha because Metal Gear 1 and 2 had mechas too and he made the unfortunate decision of naming the first game after the mech .

but muh minovsky particles

>>377824591
When you think about it, Minovsky particles is such a terrible excuse to use giant robots.

>>377818304
There's usually some in-universe reason, like Minovinsky particles and stuff.

>>377820306
>>377819538

The first metal gears were made long before the U.S or soviets had mobile nuclear capable vehicles. This is explained in MGS3. We're lead to assume that Metal Gears were so fearsome they continued to be made afterwards either instead of or alongside the means we know of in the real world.

>People still comparing metal gear to a tank when its clearly just artillery that can defend itself

So you're saying that something like Metal Gear RAY wouldn't be useful in the real world?

>>377819683
are you calling me a monkey?

>>377825003
It would scare people shitless if you use it against civilians.
Otherwise just stinger their asses like its nothing.

>>377825310
Can't you also just Javelin tanks?

>>377822634

Insects have something called Hemolymph instead of blood, and an open circulatory system.

>>377823160
>>377825529
why not rigid wheels then, and the creature just rolls around with the wheels

>>377825661
Wheels suck the real word is not a road.

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>future warz will be fought with walking tanks!!!!

you know people will just use drones because its cheap and has effective firepower

>>377820467
>because evolution is crappy
We developed a good sense of balance instead, and it works fine for humans because we aren't made out of reinforced steel.

>>377821252
I think subs would be more expensive than a MG. There's a lot that goes into building them and they're massive as well. A MG could be built with a diesel electric generator and a handful of motors which are actuated by a series of stabilizers to keep it upright and well balanced. An additional factor to consider is the fact that the largest pieces of mining equipment, draglines, also walk albeit very slowly due to their mass.

>>377825917

I wish Kojima was still working on MGS.

I can totally imagine a Drone Metal gear that looks like a giant pterodactyl or some crazy shit

you guys say that but tanks these days are just sitting ducks in cityscapes

and they can't look or shoot over houses or move in versatile ways!

Meanwhile a mech can even run from the enemy.

>>377826405
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVlhMGQgDkY

The point of a mech isn't to be a bipedal tank. The entire point is that you can do 1:1 body control, and have a vehicle which is MUCH more agile and more intuitively controlled than anything else that exists.

>>377826943
But what practical purpose would it serve other than grappling with godzilla

>>377827149
Grappling with other mecha, duh

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>>377818024
Do you agree with him?

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>>377826943
>The point of a mech isn't to be a bipedal tank. The entire point is that you can do 1:1 body control, and have a vehicle which is MUCH more agile and more intuitively controlled than anything else that exists.
I fucking wish

>>377826943
And then a cheap mass-produced tank shoots and destroys the incredibly expensive, fragile mech in a single shot

>>377827149
Using them to fight infantry. Why send multiple squads of fleshy human soldiers to risk their lives when you could send in one or two bulletproof mechs impervious to small arms.

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>>377826943
And to stealthily launch nukes

>>377827234
I'm not /k/ but I think in what we call a magazine, the clip is the spring and the magazine is just the box that houses it and stops the bullets from falling out.

>>377819739
>bipedal or 4 legged
>not based 6 legs master race
Is like you don't want to always be stable 100% of the time

>>377827234
Clip in that sentence is a metaphor for the way the cartridges are arranged and fed into the gun!

>>377826880
One jeep in front of a convey of tanks solves this issue.

>>377818090
because an axle is biologically impossible, silly goose

>>377827674
which issue, dummy

>>377827379
not if the mech hides behind a hill!

>>377827858
Urban warfare with tanks.
All it takes is one support gunner jeep and you have all the versatility you need for vehicular cqc.

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>>377827589
>I'm not /k/ but I think in what we call a magazine, the clip is the spring and the magazine is just the box that houses it
Wrong.
"Clip" is known as a "cartridge comb" in some languages, and it describes the function of clip very well: it's just a simple rail that holds ammo, which is easy then to push into the gun's (usually rifle's) magazine. It has not mechanisms or springs or anything.

Magazine is a simple mechanical device that feeds inserted cartridges into the chamber. There's external (box) and internal (tube or box) magazines

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>>377827379

The mech can just as easily kill the tank, you know. Modern tanks can't resist modern HEAT charges. And a mech can easily carry much larger charges than the infantry-fired ones in use now.

>>377828117
So you'd use a clip for a manually-fed weapon like a revolver but a magazine for weapons designed for mags like semi-auto pistols and rifles, correct?

>>377828105
Except gunner jeeps go down really quickly and you don't want to have that frontal position in urban warfare for your soldiers. Why do you think tanks are always shown in footage alone? It's suicide to go in with a jeep. The first hail of bullets from a non scouted building and the jeep is fucking wrecked and everyone in it dead. Now there's something in the way, no matter how small.

Taking blocks in cities is not an easy task even for a convoy of tanks, and a fucking jeep doesn't facilitate it. Tanks can only shoot the buildings, but they can't hide behind cover and still shoot from it as well as a bipedal machine. Of course, both at the same time would work together really well.

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>>377828659
Pretty much yes, though you can also use clips to reload MAGAZINES faster.

For revolvers, you got those "moon clips" and speed reloaders.

>>377828117
But the magazine is feeding the metaphorical clip into the gun.

>>377818024
Articulated treads are vastly superior to bipedal movement for everything except climbing up a pole. Double articulated treads would let you rotate right up a pole if need be.

You can even design the wheels to still work fairly well without the tread depending on the weight of the chassis.

>>377828659
Yes and no.
A revolver's speedloader could be considered as a clip of sort
Stripper and en-bloc clips are used to feed the ammo into the magazine in weapons with fixed magazines (ie: can't be removed without dismantling the gun).

Long story short:
Can you remove the magazine?
Y: No clips
N: Clips

>>377827735
If I only lived long enough to see you get BTFO when we explore the infinite universe.

>>377829008
then why do we have infantry and not tiny tanks?

B TO THE FUCKING O

>>377818024
Yep.

Aircraft do everything the Metal gears do, and are far superior.

>>377818024
A 4 legged tank would theoretically be better over a wider range of terrain. It would need to be extremely refined to be useful though

Mechs or a exoskeletons will eventually happen, and will dominate things until people start making weird vehicles designed to be piloted by AI

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Fuck off APC babies. This guy can crouch, jump, headbutt. It can even kick a tank upside down.

>>377829651
A tank with the same armor and armament?

Nope.

It's legs would sink in anything not concrete, it would break most climbing surfaces, all with all the weak points inherent in a 4 legged design.

Treads offer far superior ground pressure and that's what matters.

>>377829157
>Long story short:
>Can you remove the magazine?
>Y: No clips
>N: Clips
wrong

>>377830051
It can also be killed by a guy with an infantry rifle.

>>377818090
because we can make tools and a civilisation

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>>377830393
>a guy
Snake. He doesn't count. He can kill a tank with a nade.

>>377827379
I think you could actually armor a mech better than a tank with the proper construction.

>>377830752
>Tank
>A literal Box
>Mech
>humanoid shame
>You can make the mech more armored!

Think before you post.

>>377830650
The legs are vulnerable to intermediate rifles.

This is a problem.

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>>377830921
Give it a bullet proof skirt. There, fixed.

pic unrelated

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>>377830887
>humanoid shame

>>377830887
I don't think you're thinking. Treads on tanks are inherently exposed to some degree and as such are capable of being destroyed. Deflection surfaces common in tanks would be better utilized with a sheerer structure i.e. legs, torso, arms rather than a giant rectangle. Virtually all the technology and geometry from a tank could easily be retrofitted onto a mech, and not necessarily a humanoid one. Finally depending on engine placement you could use a height advantage to obscure the vital external components to ensure they can't be damaged from the ground as easily as they might be in a tank. The joints could be heavily armored as well.

>>377777777

>>377831546
welcome to /v/ newfriend

remember: you're here forever

>>377830921
The legs are also vulnerable to fucking darts. Loves tranqing Gekkos and watching them fall on their backs, mooing and kicking their legs around.

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>implying this isn't the pinnacle for warfare machines
Sigint dont know shit!

>>377831628
haha

I have a better idea. Why the fuck doesn't the military create power armor? I mean what the fuck , how is not having a human sized tank not OP as fuck for operations?

>>377831850
The problem is energy storage

>>377822426
>"good enough" patches to cover any immediate issues
that is nothing like evolution, go back to school

>>377829445
Articulated tread tanks are more expensive than infantry.

>>377831850
>human sized tank

Real powered armor won't be anything like in Iron man.

>>377832524
I mean more like master chief

>>377832450
so if it wasn't we would have tiny tanks that can clear buildings? It's also harder to hit with RPG. Why not make tanks smaller?

We should create bigger tanks by now

>>377826805
There was one in PW, Doesn't have the same charm as a biped

>>377832905
Why, so they could be nuked from orbit?

>>377830051
THICC

>>377819694
>>377824824
the weapons platform is not the weapon
how kojima manages to fool people with logic even a child can see through I'll never know

>>377831485
Joints are always a weakspot.
>The joints could be heavily armored
Weight ratio's are important. You're going to be forced to armor up the joints as opposed to armoring up the hull.

>treads on tanks are inherently exposed.
Legs of any kind are way more exposed, despite any kind of armor you'd put on them.

Also legs are a really shitty way of getting around. They're slow, are liable to topple over. Theres a fucking reason wheels and treads exist. They're simpler, and faster. The only thing they can't do well is completely rough terrain, and there are always ways to bypass, or terraform them that are easier than having some kind of mech.

Quit watching anime and open a book.

>>377824925

So why not just put the artillery on treads? You know, like how they do in real life?

>>377833441
but it's easier to just carry it around with a jeep or a truck on roads

>>377824824
>The first metal gears were made long before the U.S or soviets had mobile nuclear capable vehicles
oh so walking robots in the metal gear universe were invented before submarines, or trucks?

>>377821686
There are actually many insects and sea creatures which use rolling as a form of locomotion

>>377826943

You've been watching too much anime man.

>>377818024
Realism doesn't matter, what matters is fun games. I can name plenty of mech games and the closest thing to a good tank game was battletanx and it was basically just a twisted metal ripoff.

>>377827414

That squad of infantry probably has some portable high explosive to use for situations like that. An RPG to the joint of your mech and now suddenly you can't move so good and it's only a matter of time before your multi billion dollar machine is useless scrap.

Mechs are retarded for warfare. They are completely impractical and anyone who thinks otherwise has been watching too much anime.

>>377818090
>>377827735
>>377829348
An evolved axle would be essentially a miracle. It exists somewhere in the multiverse, but for 9.9~ sure nowhere in any universe similar to ours.

>>377833764

There's a difference between rolling your entire body and having a specific limb in the shape of a wheel for locomotion.

>>377834310
an evolved brain is much more of a miracle than an axle

>>377834458

Not really. It's a pretty natural progression, especially when you realize the brain is basically layered in order of evolution. An axle is completely unnatural.

>>377834232
If you don't think a mech with a katana is the tightest shit you can gtfo buddy

>>377835317

Mechs are fucking awesome, don't get me wrong. My point is that anyone who honestly believes that mechs are the next big weapon of warfare have probably been playing too much vidya

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>>377835635
maybe not the next

>>377835872

You're right, they'll never be used for serious combat

>>377835872
Most likely never.

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>The entire strategic benefit of Metal Gear is that you can launch nuclear missiles from rocky terrain
>Often the Metal Gear wont be detected by RADAR
>6-7 main games in total
>Meanwhile Trident Submarines and B2 Spirit Bombers are literally never brought up as better in every way

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>>377835992
>>377836045
Wrong.

>>377819694
The Soviets watched anime?

>>377818090
because its not efficient. you know how much fucking fuel a tank needs to run? or how much battery a walking robot needs? for something that in the end, cant feed itself without something with...

legs?

>>377832689
Master Chiefs MJOLNIR armor had a miniaturized fusion generator in the backpack to power it. We aren't even close to that kind of tech though one day it could be a reality.

>>377818496
>>377822327
and do any of them do literally anything useful besides get destroyed by a single man on foot?

>>377830051

>huge body and legs
>tiny feet

The pressure on the toes would be huge. It would just sink straight into any ground.

>>377837685
that's pure artifical muscle empowered by nanomachines anon, it can almost jump the eiffel tower.

>>377819670
Nah. It will go full drone/remote cobtrolled warfare.

>>377838238
Uhh clearly you've never seen the magnum opus Gundam Wing. The mobile dolls had no chance against a warrior's fighting spirit.

>>377838472
>magnum opus
It's called magnum opis

>>377837906

Completely missed the point. The mech would sink into any soft earth you put it on because of the weight being concentrated on such a small area.

>>377838612
Is that a gun that shoots piss?

>>377838636
I wouldn't know

>>377838801

nah, that would be the S&W pissmaker 500

>>377838912
Did you forget an e? Magnum o'pies?

He's right. Fire one tank shell into the knee of a mecha and it's over.

>>377818024
I think that's basically a recurring joke in MGS that the military spends millions of dollars on stupid shit like a walking nuclear missile launcher/combat robot and every time they get owned by one guy with a rocket launcher.