Is Smash a fighting game?

Yes.
But it's also a party game.

The competitive scene has as much depth as any other "traditional fighting" game.

But it's accesible controls make it great to pick up and have some dumb fun with friends just mashing buttons around watching your favorite videogame characters beat the crap out of eachother.

In my opinion it's nintendo's fault that smash has not fully achieved the "fighting game" status universally, since their supoort towards this is almost nule. This appears to be changing, though

It is not in a traditional format, but is still clearly a fighting game.

>>377735598
It's a platform-fighting game, as opposed to traditional.

It becomes more partygame relative to how many gimmicks, items and players are present during a match, and inversely if less.

It's not realistic, so no.

>>377735598
It's a brawler

>>377735598
Easy answer yes

Real answer, if differentiates itself enough that it could be called it's own genre despite many similarities. Similar to how RTS and Mobas have similarities but enough changed for a new genre to emerge. Calling it a sub genre would be acceptable enough, but for both no name has stuck.

The only things stopping it being called that is lack of similar games to build up the genre, and the whole argument stemming from smash players wanting their game to be seen as legitimate rather than caring if it is really a fighting game.

>>377735598

It's a game where you fight guys, so I'm inclined to say yes.

>>377735598
Yes, it doesn't have to be a direct Street Fighter template build to be a fighter.

Do you think Smash would benefit from having a super meter system instead of shitty smash balls?

>>377737464
Ok so by your logic none of the fighting games are fighting games. No magic, no fireballs spurting from people's hands, no insane grapples that would paralyze someone only for them to get up with half a life bar.

i love smash BUT! press fucking B to instawin is bullshit.
counters are bullshit.
neutral b of some character is literally OP (mac, cloud, corrin, etc..)
the fucking shield while in air do not last at least the time of the enemy's move.( why someone should use the shield then?!?!)

>>377738434
Why would you even reply?

>>377736496
This, there are other types of fighting games other than traditional arcade fighters.

Are games like UFC and boxing simulator 2017 fighting games?

To be a "fighting game" does it just have to be build on the Street Fighter model?

No. It's a party game or whatever that genre is with a competitive side to it. People confuse it for a fighting game because the competitive is played on a 1v1 setting.

>>377738434
Not everything is realistic.

>>377738602
No-one cares about tr4sh and it's not even considered a fighting game by the Smash community.

>>377738832
This

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Fighting game or not I'd rather play Melee or Smash 64 than the shitfest that is SFV.

>>377738675
Then why do people only every argue about and call it a fighting game?

people push platform fighter a little but it is not commonly used compared to say 3D fighting game.

>>377738890
Why does smash get to be the special snowflake?
Everyone else has to move onto the newest game while Smashfags get 2 at evo.

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>>377738434
>falling for bait this easily

>>377739090
Explain why SFV is a shitfest, mechanically. Prove you're not a parrot.

>>377739440
I would but I'm too busy trying to remove the rootkit Capcom installed on my computer

>>377739207
>Everyone else has to move onto the newest game
Melee community is grassroots, their competitive "circuit" isn't controlled by Nintendo so they don't have to move on in order to compete. Every other game like Street Fighter has a competitive circuit that is controlled by Capcom or their game's company so if they don't move on they're not going to be allowed to compete at tournaments.

>while Smashfags get 2 at evo
Melee is at EVO because it peaks around 215k viewers whcih btfos every other game but for Street Fighter and so Mr. Wizard can sell advertisements during Melee blocks at higher prices for more cash in his pocket. Sm4sh is at EVO because Nintendo hands over a big bag of cash to have it there for more cash in Mr. Wizard's pocket.

>>377739572
They removed it within a day or two. So, you are a parrot.

>>377739440
Gameplay.

>>377739810
What about the gameplay?

>>377736389
This.

>>377739440

Everything is dumbed down intentionally. Juggles, range, framedata. They WANT characters that steal wins like Laura, Balrog and Urien to be top tier, so casuals watching it on tv can see a comeback and be excited.
They catered to casuals with the gameplay changes, but casuals hate the game because of the lack of content, and the thing that made competitive players like the series was fucked for the casuals that don't give a shit for the game anyway.
You can like to play the game against people, but if you defend Capcom's balance decisions, how they are dealing with the supposed "service based" game, how barebones the game is, and how they half assed the netcode and the game in general with it's loading times, you're admiting on being mentally retarded.

>>377740289
>Everything is dumbed down intentionally. Juggles, range, framedata
I find this to be generally false. Just because it's not as batshit as SFIV with its FADC extensions and frame-specific links doesn't mean that it is a dumbed down experience. Executions were made easier across the board but imo, that's a good thing. It lowers the barrier of entry while keeping core concepts intact, and those concepts are the things that should give fighting games their depth, not 1f links and plinking.

Otherwise: yes their launch was shit, the amount of content offered for the money was paltry, and up until recently the game has been blunder after blunder. Here recently though I like how the roster is shaping out, I think the balance is typically much better than it was in S1, and I've got a good feeling it's gonna be even better soon. Laura, Balrog, and Urien aren't just a win in the bag like you claim even though they're strong characters at the moment. What SFV really needs in general is more defensive options and the gutting of throw loops.

>>377736389
Maybe now that Sakurai is gone they might actually start implementing tech to the game instead of dumbing it down relentlessly.

Yes, but it only has the popularity it has because it's easy to play. Same happened FPS and RTS. FPS like Quake and UT used to take a huge amount of skill, then it went more casual with Call of Duty and then eventually Overwatch. RTS like Starcraft used to take a huge amount of skill, then it devolved into the MOBA genre which once again is a lot more casual, with a lesser learning curve. I believe the same thing is happening to fighting games now, and it certainly explains why Smash is the most popular game at Evolution. People overall cannot be bothered to learn intricacies before they can play at a decent level, which is fine, but I believe it is the dumbing down of the genre.

Sorry if I didn't phrase this very well. Korean is my first language.

>>377740868

That is one of the problems with the game. It might not seem so bad if you look at some specific thing, but there's so much dumb decisions that nothing can be seen on a positive light.
MVCI apparently got the casualization right. It lowered the skill floor instead of the skill ceilling. Pros still can do impressive shit, but casuals will be able to do some cool stuff too on their on accord.

>>377736389
Smash has "depth" because of the autistic fanbase

>>377741678
>Smash is the most popular game at Evolution

Street Fighter btfos both Smash games combined viewership at EVO.

>>377736389
Maybe Melee, but I wouldn't say any other Smash games apart from unofficial modifications even reach an average level of depth. I don't believe any Smash game beats USF4 in terms of strategy, execution, fundamental skill, etc.

>>377742334
64 has more technical depth than every other game currently at EVO.

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I mean ARMS and Gundam are fighters, so Smash is as well.

>>377742334
>Maybe Melee

You mean "I'm gonna spam wave dash over here and slide like it's electric": the fighting game?

At least the Wii U version fixed that crap by giving more move options. It's a shallower fighting game than most, granted, but better than melee's predictable spamming.

>>377742510
It's all good saying that, but if you could prove your point instead of just stating it, I would be more inclined to believe you.

>>377742550
>Wii U version
>more move options

wut

>Melee
>spam
>predictable

wut

Are you genuinely retarded?

>>377736389
this

if capcom made it and it was a cast of capcom characters it would have never been considered not a fighting game

>>377742550

nigga you have no idea what you are talking about

>>377742667
What do you know about competitive Smash 64 in terms of input precision and demands and advanced techniques character by character?

>>377735598
You fight in it,
Against other players,
In hand to hand combat,
So yes
I believe it is

>>377735598

It's a beat em up.

>>377742801
I am not aware. Could you educate me, and perhaps make comparisons to other Smash games I am familiar with (Melee, Brawl, 4) or even better, traditional fighting games? I would appreciate this.

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>>377738792
>Are games like UFC and boxing simulator 2017 fighting games?

Yes.

>>377735598
Is water wet?

>>377735598
it is, it's just a different kind of fighting game.

I don't know why most people bitch about this though.

>>377735598
Only melee is a fighting game
Brawl 64 and 4 are party games

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>>377739090
>girls who play Tekken:

>>377739440
>mechanically

There is more to what makes people say its shit than this. Im sorry videogames quality ARE down to the sums of its parts. As i understand it, V in fact plays quite well, but the format, roster of literally who's and release leave a lot to be desired

>>377739726
>parrot

Sounds like your a shill boy. Thats not fucking ok just because they tried to save face.

>>377743038
At a basics level Smash 64's analog gameplay adds a layer of depth by default over traditional fighters digital gameplay, there's then the variety of weak/strong hitboxes attached to moves which will create a vast array of situations which don't vary as much as Melee's hitbubbles but create more variety in character on character interaction. The game's combo and shieldbreaks are based on these two things so much like in a traditional fighter where one can learn a series of inputs to damage another character 64 has that but with a far greater amount of variables involved which require greater input demand and situational knowledge or dead reckoning on the fly. These basic interactions must be performed moving the player character in analog space relative to the opponent character using one input stick, which is also complicated by tapjump, meaning to do something like Captain Falcon's falling up airs while double jumping at the correct time a player's input precision basically demands them to be flipping the stick in an opposing direction to the direction they want to go to input the correct aerial command and then flip it back upwards with enough precision to not jump and remain falling and etc. This is basic level character interaction.

At a more advanced level there's Z-canceling which is pressing the Z-button eleven frames before hitting the ground to eliminate special landing animations which when timed consecutively with characters like Yoshi can allow shieldbreaking speed where you output aerial commands faster than the opponent's block can leave the stun effect of a hit which becomes again difficult based on the single stick inputting as well. Smash DI is essential in which a player must slam the stick in a direction during the hitlag of taking an attack as to move their avatar to not be combo'd. Some characters like Fox have greater technical input like multishines.

>>377735598
I think platform fighter is the best way to describe it. It doesn't fall under the traditional category, but it is similar enough to be considered an offshoot.

>>377742054
Traditional 2D fighters have "depth" because of the autistic developers

>>377743038
>>377744295
If you take the multishines as an example, the player must slam the stick forward (which is another factor at the basics level I overlooked, the analog inputs of movement speeds and dashes and attacks being variable) to dash, then immediately flip it down in perfect conjunction with sliding their thumb across the leftmost C-button to the B button to quickly cancel their jumpsquat animation with the down-b attack hitbox instead which is a precise window in which if the player does it slightly too fast then the hitbox will not come out at all, and if it is too slow then they will be stuck and then dash again to input again, and if their stick sensor senses the inputs to be anywhere off on the gradient they risk being 64punished which could just be an entire stock. If you take Yoshi's shieldbreak nairs for example it becomes even more difficult as the timing of A-button presses must fall into a framespace where the stick is in a neutral position in between the player trying to encroach forward onto the opponent's shield and also fastfall downwards so the player is hitting forwards neutral position down tapping jump twice but not too fast then sliding to the A button to perfectly coincide with neutral position repeatedly. Other advanced tech like Jigg teleporting is present but less seen. While the game isn't as technical as Melee f you compare to say Xrd there's not really comparable inputs and input precision demand on a basic level of movement and attack. Xrd has precise blocking inputs but that's about the end of it and the same can be said of EVO's entire roster this year where their most complex technical depth comes from learned combo strings, but they're not as complex or demanding as what you might see from many characters in Smash 64 either.