How do you save the fighting game genre?

People need to actually be fucking open to new IP's.

Skullgirls and Pokken are both great competitive fighters yet they only have a niche, small competitive scene (especially skullgirls, Pokken at least still is an official title at a good amount of FGC majors and gets 50`-60 entrants usually). Pretty much the only recent fighting game IP that has the numbers and activity of classics is injustice.

stop giving a shit about competitive retards and just make fun fighters.
I'm starting to miss all those shitty sf2 clones.

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>>377536432
This. I like a good competitive fight but Who wants to be associated with the kinds of people who can actually pick the training stage OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. HOW ARE ANY OF YOU OK WITH THIS?

>>377536432
Isn't that pretty much any NRS game?

There are plenty of good fighting games out though

>>377536294
Didn't Pokken get fucked by Nintendo? Namco wants the OK from Nintendo for updates, but they don't answer

>>377537192
NRS games have been trying to get the FGC approval, even if they're still considered casual fighters.

Stop catering solely to tourney fags and that's half the battle won right there.

>>377537976
We don't know if it's TCPI or Nintendo holding it up, but yeah, it's one or both of them

Play Guilty Gear.

>>377538169
SFV bombed that hard BECAUSE it tried to only cater to casuals and not the tourney players.

>>377538424
EIGHT FRAMES OF OFFLINE INPUT LAG
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING

>>377535739
how do I into the fighting genre?
also best platform for them?

miss those old days of playing in the arcades and would like to get into it again

was thinking of street fighter and tekken but no idea if I should get a ps4 or xbone since I also want some nice and fun fps mp games.
I also thought of building a desktop but no idea

I hope ARMS gets added to EVO and kicks out shitty NRS trash

You can't, fighting games require effort to play and get good at. If you dumb them down too much they become awful (look at fantasy strike). Fighting games will never be really mainstream until people are willing to put effort into games again

People should just play everything like everyone used to back in the day. You need to have that arcade experience by hopping from game to game.

>>377538424
No, it bombed because it was half fucking finished at release, because Capcom wanted it out before the end of their fiscal year and for the Capcom Pro Tour.

>>377538527
Platform nowadays is probably PS4.
There are no xbone exclusive fighting games that i'm aware of.
Pc has the performance but the problem when the games are not crossplatform, like tekken 7.

>>377538527

Just buy one you like the look of an play it, PS4 will probably have the most players as it's the most popular console. However you will miss out on Killer Instinct. But if you buy an Xbone you miss out on Guilty Gear The only platform with all those games is PC

>>377538709
>>377538508
The game is shit, I get that.
The core problems though exist, because they wanted to make it more volatile so even scrubs could steal games and reduce the complexity (and with it the high skill ceiling) because fighting games are just to hard to for casuals to get into.

>>377538527
Pick a game and play its tutorial. It should teach you most of the basic stuff. If you need more look up guides or your specific game on youtube.
PS4 is THE fighting game console. It has everything. PC is getting more, well actually, I think they'll have everything when KoF XIV comes out, but since crossplay isn't a thing everyone does, you'll be stuck with a smaller pool of PC players. Also you could get Titanfall 2 or R6S on PS4, both very fine shooters.

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>>377538424
>HOW DO WE CATER TO CASUALS??
>I KNOW!
>WHAT IS IT?!
>LETS FORCE THEM TO PLAY COMPETITVLEY!!

Oh yeah anon, they sure showed em casuals they care huh?

>>377535739
Shrinking genre. Remember all those fighting games in the 90s and the arcades?

Sf5 isn't even in the arcade isn't it?

>>377536294
>Pokken
Was bad
>Skullgirls
Launched bad, with only 8 characters. By the time it was worth playing, it was too late.

>>377536432
>>377538169
I don't get this logic. There are games out there like KI, MK, Tekken, Injustice, ect. that are able to provide content for both serious players and casuals.

Is it because the only fighting game you know is Street Fighter? Is it because you're tired of losing, and hope that better players won't play the game (Protip: There were good players even on shit games like MKvDC)? Is it because you want lower media attention and less word of mouth that results in getting bigger and better sequels or more content?

But really, normally it's more like this:"Wah, these people are having more fun than me AND I can't beat them. I want to take away their fun".

Really, there's no reason to actually want to fuck the competitive scene unless you're a bitch ass baby who needs to ruin other people's fun to get a hardon.

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>>377535739
Only way to have it be popular is is if it's a very popular IP and or developer that makes it, and it has to be accessible enough for people to not drop it because they have to spent 5 minutes on figuring out how a DP works, since there people nowadays are so fucking retarded they think having to spent 5~ minutes to figure something out means that not everyone can do it:
>"Some people will never be able to perform a DP motion" -TB

I don't even want the games to be that popular either however, it just leads to shitty communities and you won't be able to play with more people anyway because they would all suck shit to give you any decent matches.

>>377539402
Tekken 7 is still in the arcades. It's not dead yet.

>>377538664
This

Also back in the day there were no online play on consoles. Kids didnt sink all their time into cod.
Also kids used to come over to each others house and play together. Fighting games online is just not the same, there is no fun in it.

>>377539576
But what else is in the arcades?

Remember when capcom made more than one fighter??

Or snk before the late 00s?

>>377539878
>Also kids used to come over to each others house and play together. Fighting games online is just not the same, there is no fun in it.

this
yesterday I went to a party and had to stay sober due to driving so no drugs nor alcohol so I spent most of the time playing SF x Tekken and even if I was rusty af it was still fun

>>377538664
There is a difference between not being mainstream and having less than 50 active players worldwide.
When I say WoW has less than 1 million players I am shittalking, when I say SFV has 3 thousand players I am hopeful.

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Aside from SFV this is a great generation for fighting games.

>>377535739
Let Capcom die.

The legacy of Street Fighter among many other great fighters they made still has them as a weird center of attention and the last time I remember them being overall good at their classic game line up was probably PS1.

>>377538637
>another Nintendo party game

how about you fuck off

>>377536294
Smash is popular even if it's not a classical fighter.

>>377540490
It's debatable if smash is a fighting game.

>>377540426
>party
>if it's not a sf clone, it's not fighting
based retard

>>377538664
>fighting games require effort to play and get good at.

What are mobas? Street fighter 5 is a lot more accessible than Dota/LoL, and a lot less popular.

>>377539878
Fighting games online is just not the same, there is no fun in it.
How the fuck is it not fun? What are you playing with your friend without talking to them or something? You get in a party or voice program or whatever and you play as you would together in your home. Not everyone has time to gather up their friends and make trips to other peoples houses to play video games.

>>377540662
It is just not the kind we expect from the longer inputs and 1 vs 1 gameplay.

3d fighters move around and tend to have no superbars and very less projectiles.

Honestly needs to be renamed battle royale fighters or something.

>>377538806
>Pc has the performance but the problem when the games are not crossplatform
It is really only an issue if you like anime games

>>377536432
I don't see how making something with depth for tourneyfags means it's not fun.

>>377540236
This.

>>377540851

It doesn't take any where near as much training to be decent at a moba as it does at a fighting game. I spend time practicing combos etc. I never had to do that for mobas. I just load up build guide if I'm not familiar with the hero and I'm good to go

>>377541408
100+ champions all with their own kits, counters, different item builds for different situations. You need to CS and games are 30+ minutes long, you will get perma banned if you continually leave mid game etc.

Mobas are not friendly to new/casual players at all.

>>377541408
Stop practicing only combos and practice neutral instead, just knowing bnbs and simple combos with no filler is better than only spending time on combos. The most important part is being able to hit the opponent and how to defend yourself not combos themselves, once you feel like you're getting good at neutral you can learn fancier combos

>>377541073
If he loses it's not fun. That's why he hates fightin games.

Anyone who actually plays fighting games does not think they need "saving".

The only people who do are the ones who don't like fighting games in the first place.

>>377541813
Knowing how to play a character in a moba is no where near as hard as knowing how to play a character in a fighting game. I agree they aren't easy games to get into but they aren't as hard as fighting games, also scrubs don't have the luxury of blaming team mates when they lose. They have to face their failure head on and most can't handle that

>>377541814
>I spend time practising combos etc.

etc. indicating that a list is too tedious or clichéd to give in full.

>>377540085
Fighting games will NEVER be that big. They are inherently niche because people don't want a 1 on 1 game of skill.

>>377539402
>Shrinking genre
Maybe with the casuals. The people who actually play fighting games (aka don't just complete arcade mode and throw the game away) have been going up for the last 8 years.

>>377539408
>Was bad

Why do you think it's bad

>inb4 you think it's all keepway and you only saw/played the game around when it first came out

>>377540490
>>377540662
Smash isn't a new IP even if we count it as a fighting game. It's been out for what, over 15 years now?

>>377542109
You usually make a list when using etc not a single point, at this point you could just be saying "I spend time learning the game"

>>377540236
Yeah I don't see any reason to be desperate. It's not like pre 09 where the only decent games were Tekken and GG

>>377535739
>KI not at EVO this year

Makes me sad

So outside picking a character I enjoy, should I just go into practice mode and try to memorize and perform the combos?

I really enjoy this type of games, especially when I randomly pull out combos but jesus christ is it so depressing going into practice mode

>>377541038
That's not even true. PC has plenty of old anime games that are exclusive to it and GG has at least as many PC players as console because the lower input delay means much better online.

>>377539408
>KI, MK, Tekken, Injustice,
Tekken is the only one of those that isn't garbage

Fuck the casuals. Any game with auto-combo is just fucking stupid. If you can't even spend 5 minutes in training learning how to do a basic combo go play something else

>>377542586
Which game?

If you are VERY new, you should at least get familiar with the motions so you can do your moves whenever you want. After that, depending on the game, you don't HAVE to use training much if you justw ant to play.

>>377542462

The point of etc is to avoid giving a full list

>>377542694
People can do combos in training mode, it's doing them in the middle of an actual match that's the hard part

>>377542694
Auto combos don't change anything for people who already know how to play the game, they just let more people enjoy them earlier.

>>377535739
I know its not a 2D fighter, but ARMS looks really fun to me. Fresh take on fighting games but still got the core rock paper scissors element.

>>377542672
>"Of all those games, I have only properly played Tekken seriously"

>>377542694
Auto combos are shit in every game they are in.

>>377542803
tekken 6
Only own a xbox 360

>>377542586
Go into training memorise the moves and some basic combos

Later you should try to execute whatever you want to practice successfully 10 times in a row. eg if you were playing USF4 E. Ryu - Jumping fierce, standing fierce, light tatsu EX DP-

Really straight forward simple combo, if you can't do it 10 times in a row keep trying till you can, then try to pull it off in a match and build from there.

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>>377538527
Get Street Fighter V on PS4 or PC. No matter how much people shit on it, it's still a decent fighting game, easy/simple to get into and is currently the most popular. It will have the most tutorials and information online as well.

Fighting games are very rewarding to get into once you've overcome the first couple barriers. It's all strategy and skill that wins, not being carried by teammates or mashing buttons to win.

>>377542672
Some truth to this. KI has always been cheese the game for showy goofballness. MK has had some solid entries in the series over the years, granted its drops in a bucket as many of them as there are. Injustice is a bad MK game. And Tekken always amazes me as it became a good fighter, because the first few were rubbish sluggish early 3D messes. Humble start I guess.

>>377542865
As a fighting game player, Arms looks like the kind of game that could be fun for a while, but the depth runs dry fast and it ends up being too shallow in the long run.

>>377542956
I want to fuck Mika in the ass

>>377539151
>first person shooters on a console

hugluglug im choking on dicks

>>377542586
First make sure you learn your character and how they function, then you practice some easy combos that don't take too much effort to pull out when you need them. The most important thing is not combos though, you need to know your character inside and out. Know what they can and cannot do in actual fights.

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Ryan "The Prodigal Son" Heart approved

>>377542918
Well that's a terrible way to get into fighting games because Tekken 6 is dead. ou can't learn a game without people to play. I'd suggest tag 2, but 7 is coming out so that's probably gonna die soon too and I don't know how many people still play on 360 anyway.

If you have a PC, even not a strong one, you can try some of the lower spec stuff liek fightcade, skullgirls, melty blood, hell even SF4 is low specs by now.

>>377538302
This. Fucking no one to play with outside of japan or east coast usa

>>377543182
Probably going to buy a PS4 slim 1TB

Was thinking of picking up tekken 7, kof, mk XL and SFV

>>377543317
I mean you should do whatever you want but I'd probably recommend against over-saturating yourself with fighters all at once.

Also MKX sucks

>>377543097
>blazblue so bad it's not even there

I'm baffled how it even got the Sunday spot over God's Gift.

>>377543097
>BR3
>Garou
>That good
That's bullshit but I believe it.

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>>377543034
Did you fucking read the post I was replying to? Because If you did, you'd notice that he was also looking to buy a console with fun multiplayer FPS games you stupid mongrel.

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>>377535739
>Because let's be honest, the good ol' arcade days are gone

Why do people think that now that arcades are pretty much dead and that the fighting game genre is finished? This whole "TE3 D00M 0F F1GHT1NG G4MEZ!" meme needs to stop.


>Tournaments are getting more and more entrants

>Tournaments are getting more and more spectators

>Twitch and Youtube views are on a constant increase

>EVO went from some shit back yard local to one of the greatest events in gaming every year

>EVO is on the verge of going to Japan

>More and more players are flying overseas to compete


>Increasing amounts of teams are choosing to sponsor fighting game players

>More and more developers are choosing to support their fighting games post-launch

>Larger tournament venues have recently started being a necessity to accommodate the large amount of attendants and spectators

Sure I can understand that arcades have pretty much died in the west and are slowly dying in Asia, but when will faggots realise that fighting games are FAR from needing to be saved?

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>>377541813
lmfao, unironically saying assfaggots takes skill

>>377543317
Sounds like a good idea then.
Don't get too fixated on training mode, learning all the optimal combos or stuff like that. The only way to learn fighting games is by playing other people a lot. Training is useful especially at the start to become familiar with motions and moves for your character, but playing is by far the most useful thing, even if you just have a basic combo instead of an advanced one, it's better to play than spend hours trying to learn the super advanced combo.

>>377538424
SFV bombed because it has no fucking content. If they were truly trying to cater to casuals they would have a shit-load of single player modes and give people who aren't training for tourneys a reason to play for more than an hour

>>377542494
>xbones only good exclusive lost a slot
damn

>>377543632
Well It's PC too now. Apparently it had low viewership. Makes me sad that KI was a launch title exclusive for Xbone, if it was PC from the get-go it would probably be a more popular game.

>>377543610
If they weren't trying to cater to casuals, why did they dumb it down so much to the point where it's easy as fuck, bland as fuck and very one dimensional?

>>377543565
>>377543317

>Don't get too fixated on training mode, learning all the optimal combos or stuff like that

This so fucking hard. My friend was trying to play KI and in the training it has a lesson about frame data and he was getting so pissed off because he just didn't understand it. I kept telling him that he doesn't need to know that shit for a LONG time and he just didn't listen, got frustrated and quit.

Use training for some familiarity initially and then build some more specific techniques as you go

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this is my persona 5 arena main

i hope you all look forward to playing me

>>377543097
He never approved this lmao

>>377543926
>Making casuals learn about frame data

This is so retarded, why did they bother adding that into the tutorial.
If someone gives enough fucks about a game and genuinely has the drive to git gud, they'll find frame data themselves

>>377543610
>battlefront, overwatch, destiny

no content sells like hotcakes, people dont like fighting games

How to save fighting vidya in four words: New Def Jam game

>>377543525
So the only argument you have is numbers?
Mainstream garbage like lol or hearthstone has by far the most viewers on average, that's because it's easy to understand and MAINSTREAM.
The typical fighting game genre is dying, being replaced by the shoveware casual shit that floods every inch of the modern gaming world.
Also
>Increasing amounts of teams are choosing to sponsor fighting game players
is just plain wrong.

>>377544201
To be fair it's really basic and essentially says "Hey there are moves which are faster than others at execution and recovery and different moves have different ranges for enemies to be in block animation" but he focused too much on it.

>>377544386

Are you dumb?

Popularity =/= numbers, son.
If there is a high number of people who play something or watch something, then it is popular, period. How can you not understand this?

>is just plain wrong
If you compare how many sponsored fighting game players there were a decade ago to now, you'll find the number has very much risen.

>>377535739
look at the center

>>377544386
>Mainstream garbage like lol or hearthstone
Those are f2p desu

>>377544201
baka

It's good that it's in the game. One of the biggest complaints people have in these threads is that fighting games don't explain their rules enough and you have to find outside sources.

>>377543097
Perfect

>>377544201
>If someone gives enough fucks about a game and genuinely has the drive to git gud, they'll find frame data themselves
They might find it way later if it's not in the game desu or maybe never.

>>377537976
Nintendo is fucking retarded.

>>377536294
I expect them to casualize desu.

Namco, where the fuck is my Soul Calibur VI ?!?!?!

>>377540012
Guilty gear
Blazblue
Pokken
DoA
Skullgirls
KOF
Most fighters have arcade ports or their current release started as an arcade game and got ported to home consoles

>>377543525
Playing every single day is really really important. In the absence of good online, having a spot to go and play for at least a few hours each day is one of the only ways to really get good at a fighting game.

>>377544201
Every fighting game should have an option in training mode to see hitboxes, as well as frame data imo. If you put it in an 'advanced' tab in the menu casuals wouldn't have to get confused by it by trying to figure it out before they can do a LMH combo. More options the better

>>377539402
>Remember all those fighting games in the 90s and the arcades?
Go to Japan, you'll find just as many.

Creating a fighting game that doesn't violate basic game design principle. Raising the skill floor of a game doesn't raise the ceiling.

should I be using the controller, a fighter controller or whatever the fuck it is or fighting stick?

I kinda want to use two fingers in the controller but the right analog is kinda annoying

>>377535739
Give people, outside the heavy tournament scene, a reason to play.
No, only limiting yourself to pro-tourney players is not going to work. There are not enough to make the sales matter.
No, trying to appeal to e-sports fans isn't going to work. Most don't play the games they watch.

Until you consider that, your genre is going to keep getting more and more niche as it caters to only the shrinking audience it already has.

>>377540851
Lol and dota are team games
Its easier to get into because your friends will carry your ass till you are decent enough to not tank the team
While in a 1v1 fighter its you against your friends or the world and you are constantly reminded of how much you stuck because you can't block for shit
This is why fighting games are less popular than mobas

>>377546761

Use whatever is easiest for you

>>377546704
Yeah, I think only Skullgirls and KI have that.

>>377546761
It's all down to comfort and what you like

>>377536294

Honestly, this.

It took YEARS for even BlazBlue to find acceptance because it wasn't Guilty Gear. Fighting game players only care about sequels.

>>377538424
You are clinically retarded.
It's actually the other way around. It was rushed out with no content so the competetive crowd can play it. As a results, the casuals hated it because it had no content they would enjoy (Arcade, regular Story mode, shit to do and unlock in single player).
Of course, its also ironic because the hardcore crowd is also complaining because the game is a lot more shallow compared to previous titles.

>>377535739
the genre is fine if you're playing the right games


can't wait for rev2 and t7

>>377547018
It didn't help that ct was a mess

>>377547018
Actually, you still see GG players shit on BB all the fucking time, it's annoying.
It was never truly accepted by them even after GG got its sequel.

>>377547018
BB took quite some time to become good. The first iterations were pretty flawed so going from AC to CT/CS was rough.

Capcom just needs to die to save fighters. In all honesty, fgc stands for Fighting Games by Capcom. That's all they will ever play because it's all they're conditioned to.

SFV is still the most popular fighter despite it being worse than SF3: The New Challengers, the game that killed the series for almost a decade.

>>377546761
Analogs on the ps4 controller are kinda bad because you might press the Ps button accidentally
Use the d pad or get a stick, though understand that a stick will not magically make you play better and you will suck using it for quite a while before getting useful to it

>>377536432
found a poster who is mad because he is bad.

>>377542996
It already looks way better than smash interms of depth so it couldn't be that bad.

>>377546814
this
People hate to have personal responsibility. In assfaggots and Overwatch if they lose the match, people just blame teammates or say that the enemy was ganging up on them.
In Hearthstone if you lose, you just say you have bad RNG and move on.

In fighting games if you lose, the only thing you can blame is yourself. And many people hate this.

>>377536294
Skullgirls is shit, and Pokken is exclusively on a dead console

>>377535739
HOW ABOUT YOU ACTUALLY PLAY GUILTY GEAR GOD DAMN IT.

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>>377538424
>SFV bombed that hard BECAUSE it tried to only cater to casuals and not the tourney players.

I'm tired of hearing this fucking revisionist nonsense from SFVbabs who desperately want someone to blame for their game being an utter failure commercially and critically.

How can you possibly believe that casuals were the target audience of SFV when the game

>Shipped without an arcade mode
>Went full throttle with the DLC model to get the game out the door faster
>Didn't even complete its story mode before shipping, again to get the game out faster
>Created one of the most unforgiving, casual-unfriendly systems in crush counters
>Doesn't have co-op training mode for veterans to teach casuals without too much stress

Capcom was relying wholly on the game's multiplayer and competitive aspects to carry it, without realizing that even fucking MOBA games have more single player content than SFV did at launch.

Stop blaming casuals for SFV's stillbirth. That's entirely on Capcom for making a game for 5% of its playerbase.

>>377547018

Because it was a somewhat worse version of Guilty Gear that brought almost nothing new to the table.

There's nothing wrong with the genre. Its a genre that is exclusively contrasts against the modern gaming audience who crave for instant gratification. All the mainline games in the genre released recently are fine and just prove that casuals are just the worst most unreliable kind of audience.

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>live in Texas
>NO ONE PLAYS GUILTY GEAR

>>377547639
The sad thing is if they actually had good content straight out of the door but went full hardcore with the game it still would have sold far better.

>>377547096
>tried to only cater to casuals
>TRIED
Capcom is retarded. They want MKXs numbers but can't grasp why it sells.
They thought that casuals want to compete, they don't. Casuals just want single player and fancy graphics.
Just because CC fucked up doesn't mean they didn't try to exclusively cater to casuals.

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>>377536294
Skullgirls is my favorite fighter. Really wish people appreciated it more.

>>377547708
Maybe in terms of fighting game mechanics not really, but it did introduce HD sprites, 720p graphics that looked fucking gorgeous at the time. Especially compared to AC+'s dated visuals. It also introduced the most complex and detailed story and lore in fighting game history, even if most people in the west didn't like it due to being too "anime". Saying brought almost nothing new is unfair.

>>377535739
Release persona 5 arena

>>377548183
But they didn't try to exclusively cater to casuals you mongoloid, and you are insane for actually thinking that.

>>377548375
Skullgirls is okay, but I'm not a fan of mvc style 3on3 battles with overly long combos. I know you can 1v1 too, but it's obvious the core mechanics revolve around team battle with assists.

Also, MikeZ can suck a fat one.

>>377548375
Skullgirls sucks. I haven't played Marvel and I understand it's like Marvel, but it's gay as fuck.

You can block all attacks in the air so anti airing people who jump all the time just opens you up to be punished. A SAFE option is to jump back and block. Fucking dumb.

If you land a single light punch, you can transition it into an entire 15+ second, 30+ hit combo into resets to kill people to death. But, it's even worse, because you don't have to land a single light punch, you can land a single low OR overhead and do the same thing. As long as you know ONE combo and that that ONE hit in, you can always transition it into the combo you know.

The assists and shit also make the game into a clusterfuck. It's a fun clusterfuck, but it's still a fuck.

People say this game is so god damn accessible but tons of important shit about the game, like resets, alpha counters and so on aren't in the tutorial and aren't even mentioned. Same thing about forming good combos. Fuck.

>>377540236
Seriously, Tekken, Guilty Gear, and KOF are all getting pretty good attention (partly because of how ill-received SFV is,) and there's a new mouse-approved marvel coming later in the year. It's pretty nice. This EVO also has the most games I'm interested in watching in some time.

>>377548937
Need a new virtual figher and soulcalibur.

I would take 2d.5 darkstalkers or arc system working on it.

There's going to be a new samurai shodown but like tekkens gameplay.

Aren't all fighting games the same, where you try to guess what the opponent will do, counter it, then combo them to death

>>377548408
None of those things have anything to do with gameplay though which is what fighting game fans primarily care about, I never thought the series was bad but I'd be lying if I said I and many other people weren't praying for GG to make a return during the CT-CS days.

>>377540236
This. Something for everyone at this point.

>>377549573
Aren't all FPS games the same, where you try to aim at the opponent, then shoot them to death

>>377549573
On a very simplistic level, but they handle most things like mobility, neutral and other mechanics in vastly different ways.

>>377549573
Aren't all racing games the same, where you try to pass the opponent and go faster and them to win.

>>377549673
>None of those things have anything to do with gameplay
I did point that out. As you can see, gamplay is far from everything, as the situation with Street Fighter V sales and general perception clearly shows.

>>377549573
What an insightful, thoughtful and knowledgeable opinion.

>>377549710
yeah, but that overly simplified description of FPS games has nothing to do with my fundamentals of fighting games description

>>377549959
Oh, and why is that?

>>377549936
Did I ask for your opinion

>>377549456
Never played VF but I'd be willing to give it a shot, along with SC barring they don't mess up this time around.

Only other fighting game that is possibly on the way is a new Persona fighter from ASW.

What fighting games need is a new melty blood

>>377549959
yeah, but that overly simplified description of fighting games has nothing to do with my fundamentals of FPSs description

>>377550024
Because your post had an overly simplified description of FPS games while mine contained fundamentals of fighting games description, I have no idea what these two have to do together, like I didn't know infintely comboing your opponent or being able to step to the right or left completely changed the game or something

>>377550114
too bad it's being held hostage by the tsukihime remake that is never coming because typemoon is too busy counting dosh from all the mad fate money to care about finishing it

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>>377550114
UNI is as close as you're going to get.

>>377550216
So let me get this straight. You are allowed to overly simplify fighting games, but I'm not allowed to overly simplify FPS games?

>>377550159
That wasn't a fundamentals of FPSes description though, that was definitely oversimplifying it

>>377538169
>>377538424
>>377547639
>hitxboxes barely matter
>only memorization of frame data and blockstrings to know what is and isn't safe
>no reason to learn any character aside from your own because you can figure it out midstring by mashing a 3f normal
>story mode as one of the big selling points
>online training mode, battle lounges and other shit completely missing
>removing chip damage so that you can genuinely block forever and hopefully get lucky (especially with V Trigger bullshit)

This game tried to cater to everyone and ended up catering to nobody. If anything it caters to the tryhard shitters who immediately try to copy strategies and combos from youtube and play in ranked modes until it stops working a.k.a the MOBA generation / all those laggy shoto players who never get better.

They genuinely DID make this game much easier to play, because there is a lot less to learn and take into account. It's not necessarily "casual" but it caters to the audience who don't actually like the series and just want a fighting game where they can win.

>>377550265
UNI isn't similar at all.

>>377550294
I don't know what having permission to say things has to do with anything though

Since you're not gonna get to the point, don't expect another reply

>>377550298
That wasn't a fundamentals of fighting games description though, that was definitely oversimplifying it

>>377549959
It's almost like they're trying to point out that any retard can oversimplify a genre they don't like.

Think before you post, dumbass.

>>377550436
How come people like you are alive? You are definitely too dumb to breathe.

>>377549858
But I was initially replying to a post about BB not being accepted by the fighting game community, I don't see how casuals and SFV's sales are relevant to that.

>>377548937
>Tekken
lolno

>>377548937
MvC:I looks like garbage and I won't buy it if they don't fix the shitty models/visuals AND all the other online problems from SFV

>>377551118
It looks the same shit as MvC3 to be honest. I'm wondering, how come MvC3 never got any shit from the community for the awful cheap plastic looking models and terrible, stiff animation? The whole game looks like a cheap fan game, but nobody points this out.

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There are plenty of fighting games out there for people who actually want to play them. They're only "dead" when compared to SFV, generally you can still find games for them pretty easy.
Basically any game that still gets talked about + Fightcade games have a sizeable playerbase. Fucking hell, I even found people to play KoF97 with pretty easily, and when was the last time you saw anyone talk about any KoF game that wasn't 98, 02, XIII, or XIV?

Fighting games in general are more alive now than they have been in a really long time. Plenty of big releases are getting alot of attention, and within a shorter timespan between releases than it has been for like the past decade.

>>377551239
>how come MvC3 never got any shit from the community for the awful cheap plastic looking models and terrible, stiff animation?
A lot of people didn't liked them back in 2010 though.

>>377545015
I really wish Capcom's fighters would tell you shit like frame data and descriptions of moves, plus have better tutorials than they do.

>>377551335
That's not my impression at all though, but maybe I somehow missed the complaints.

>>377551239
The game looks closer to being a very bad MSH / XmvSF combined with SFxT. Pretty much every one of these games had infinites / semi infinites and this game is looking like the first one where they'll be absent.

Given, some of those old games are unplayable trash but at least there were some unique things you could see. The last thing we need is something similar to foot-dive loops, or pre-programmed combos like SF5. Games in the past used to be broken piece of shit but at least they were fun. Now we're a decade later we're heading toward almost the same amount of imbalance but with way more accessibility.

hows the fighting community on xbone

>>377551627
>The game looks closer to being a very bad MSH / XmvSF combined with SFxT
Doesn't look that broken so far, so far it might be the least broken marvel game yet.

>>377551927

Probably similar to PC levels

>>377550630
faggot

>>377551927
I don't think they have anything other than KI, and you can just get that on PC.

>>377550104
Vf5 is ok. Vf4 is harder desu.

Plus the gameplay is bit more realistically comparred to tekken.

>>377551317
2000 is easily my personal favorite KoF but it never gets any love.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDRFHVSQBpg

>>377551627
Eh from the looks of it, theres autocombos and simplified inputs for some moves.

It probably will do better than sf5.

>>377551927
Honestly it might be smaller than PC at this point. PS4 dumping money into esports/exclusivity meant the FGC migrated from the 360 to the PS4 en masse. Also smaller Japanese fighting games

>>377549456
Seriously, new Darkstalkers when? I haven't actually played a Darkstalkers game but I know I'd probably really enjoy them.

>>377550104
I loved VF4 and 5 to death. Those games have a fighting "feel" that's not replicated by any other game, not even by games that directly tried to copy it.

That said, the gameplay and feel are the best things VF has going for it. If those aspect are 12/10, everything else about VF from graphics to sound is 4/10.

>>377536294
>Skullgirls and Pokken

Sorry mate but those just fucking suck.

>>377552485
Graphics were pretty damn good for their time, it's just that the latest game is very old by now.

>>377552425
Literally never.

>>377550414
they're totally similar. Do you even really play Melty/UNIEL?

>>377547842
Texas has a big GG scene. Do your part and play offline /v/! They just had a major in Texas, you literally have no reason not to get good

>>377552607
Explain why

>inb4 for pokken you think it's all keepway and you only saw/played the game around when it first came out

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>>377552797
Maybe "graphics" wasn't the right word. 'Visuals' is more like it.

>>377552425
They really want to make a new one. But they're gonna have to do something different to make it sell more.

A tekken clone or smash clone. I dunno im just speculating.

>>377552884
Skullgirls is shit and that's why it has such a small playerbase. It's a reset fest into 33/33/33 mixups, nothing more needs to be said because resets are shit and this turns it into an neverending guessing game where you're forced to make decisions while you're stuck in some dumb ass 60 hit combo. Mike Z took inspiration from two great fighters (GG and MvC) and threw in the worst aspects of both

>>377552425
After SFV? hopefully never, and this is coming from someone who fucking loves Darkstalkers.

>>377553035
Please kill yourself

>>377535739
You literally cannot make both a mechanically good, or even competent fighting game that caters to casuals at the same time. It's either you make really easy to play (Dengeki Bunko, Persona Arena, Rising Thunder), or you base it off a popular IP. That LoL fighting game that used to be in the works was supposed to be the game that would make it mainstream, but Riot canned it.

>>377553118
Leave him or her alone.

>>377553035
I could see them doing a crossover, like Darkstalkers vs. Street Fighter or Darkstalkers vs. Killer Instinct. Something to get more sales from casuals.

I really hope we get a sequel, though. I need one.

>>377542463
were people really that burned on 3s?

>>377553221
How can you "need one" if you just said you have never played a single game in the series?

They aren't even hard to find, you can literally play people online for free using fightcade...

>>377552881
>Do you even really play Melty/UNIEL?
A lot, which is why I know they're nothing alike outside of superficial stuff like both having reverse beta (which is used in very different ways in both games).

>>377552607
Thanks for proving his point.

>>377553221
Ds vs sf would be ok. I guess they would recycle assets like from sf5.

Maybe mortal kombat vs dark stalkers.

>>377553427
>How can you "need one" if you just said you have never played a single game in the series?
I know I would enjoy it?

Nigga, it's literally just SF with monsters and a few other mechanics.

>>377542463
>It's not like pre 09 where the only decent games were Tekken and GG
You wish.

>>377553542
>it's literally just SF with monsters
Its not

>>377553702
Close enough.

>>377538424
>SFV bombed that hard BECAUSE it tried to only cater to casuals

Dude didn't it ship without an arcade or story mode?

>>377553772
No, its not.

>>377553835
Explain how it isn't and how I wouldn't enjoy it despite my being a fan of SF and Marvel.

>>377553772
Almost every mechanic works differently though, specially neutral and mobility.

>>377553946
And? I'm also a fan of other fighting games like GG or BB. I doubt it'd make such a big difference as to make me not really like it.

>>377553945
Its nothing like SF or Marvel

>>377553039
And for pokken?

>>377554223
Just pointing out they play pretty differently, not that SF or marvel fans won't like it

>>377554223
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2fFlGpZ-Fug

It has differences but not that different as other anon thinks it is.

>>377554547
Post real matches nigga.

>>377543097
>Anon doesn't even try to update his shitty bait after 6 years
Pathetic

>>377554547
>>377554675
I've actually watched plenty of competitive matches already. Looks like a lot of fun.

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>>377554272

>>377554675
No one played darkstalkers against other people. That was just a shitty game you rented from blockbuster for 2 days against the computer then moved on to SF Alpha.

>>377554993
Nice meme.

Anyone here got in the Them's Fightin Herds beta? I'm buying a beta key for 20$ (Steam card)

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>>377554223
come play on fightcade, im sure i could make you hate the game :3

>>377554910
>wikipedia
>Its SF because you can jump and crouch

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>How do we save the fighting genre

By rereleasing the HD port of this

>>377554860
How is it bait? looks pretty accurate to me.

>>377542865
>>377542996
Have you guys seen the new Nintendo Direct video on it? I wasn't too convinced about the game before, but now I kind of want to try it out.

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So will casual /v/ buy MVCi? It allows you to mash one button for a full-blown combo

>>377535739
LEGS

>>377556289
Just like MvC 1 with auto mode.

>>377556289
Prob will do better than sf5.

I can see capcom eventually doing a all capcom only fighter with different franchises.

>>377548908
>People say this game is so god damn accessible but tons of important shit about the game, like resets, alpha counters and so on aren't in the tutorial and aren't even mentioned.
If you own it you might want to open it and check the tutorials again

>>377536432
Whats fun about playing a game while not being good at it

>>377538527
Why would you ever want to buy an xbone you fucking retard, also ps4 has all the good modern fighting games other than killer instinct

>>377552884
Same guy you replied.

I play pokken at the arcades in japan and the game was just straight up boring. I gave it a couple of tries and didnt find the fun on it. During weekends i used to go to akihabara, some times to the pokemon center, and while i was there i would check out the machine to see if some ine would actually play the game and literally no one played the games in arcades, every single machine was being used, even the shitty l4d japanese version and the pokken machines were always empty.


As for skullgirls i bought the game on pretty much every single available version of it during sales in hopes to find people who actaully played this shit and in hopes of gameplay changes i would like to see since i like the art a lot, i even backed the indiegogo campaign, sadly the game is just a huge desapointment. During launch it had a shitload of touch of death combos, it got better with the patches but it wasnt enough since even without as many touch of death the game still has long as combos and a shitload of resets.

These games are not popular for a reason mate, and the reason is that most people don't find them fun or good.
>>377553521
>You must like every single fighter ever released ever.

The fact that i even tried/bought these games was already an attempt to play/like them, sadly they are just not good or fun for me and most people who tried thise games.

>>377536432
>REEEE PEOPLE ARE BETTER AT A VIDEO GAME THAN ME ITS NOT FAIIIIIIR
SFV was made just for you losers, go play that.

>>377558670
You finding it boring =/= it being shit. Do you have any actual gameplay criticism or is it just personal taste?

cant
they were never good

>>377556289
>So will casual /v/ buy MVCi?
No X-Men
No Gambit
No Sakura
No buy
At least Megaman is back.

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As someone who is fairly new with fighting games, which franchises that are not Tekken/SF/MK should i play, by looking at this thread i'd say Guilty Gear and King of Fighters, any other? Which entry should i play first in that case?

>>377560034
My favorite is KoF, I suggest you either 98' or 2002.

>>377560034
King of Fighters, get XIV if you have a PS4. Or you could get Revelator 2 which comes out this month.

>>377541073
Because you can't have a simple game for a tournament fighter, either through glitch or feature they add to goddamn much to the game, then balance everything around being able to do said moves/techniques/glitches flawlessly.

Then you have the qa for a character costing somewhere between 300-700,000$ and to finish it off, no one likes the hardcore games so even industry standard games, the big ones, need to seek outside funding from console manufactures otherwise they would not put a new one out.

You then have the fact the genre was largely perfected back with 2d fighters, so making new ones just changes up the formula a bit, none of them are a necessary upgrade.

>>377560440
You can enjoy a fighting game without needing to learn all the tourney shit, do it the other way and you have a game that will be forgotten quickly. There's a reason why the newer versions of sf2 were more liked and are still played over ww.

>>377560845
to the casual player/low skill player, almost every aspect of the game that the devs build the games around are frame perfect inputs and abusing/using systems in the game made for high level, that is where all the balancing comes from, Hell, I would argue that there is next to no balancing done outside of use are using every system no matter how hard it is to use to its absolute max.

yes, you can enjoy a fighting game without these, but it seems everyone that is fun to play with casual/low skill people are not tournament games, hell my group of friends dead or alive was the go to fun game to play for a very long time, partially because the tekken I had I was able to beat everyone without even trying or being touched,

>>377560034
You could check out the lesser played games like Melty Blood or Persona Ultimax

>>377561461
That happens with any game, a skilled player will clean the floor with any casual, making the casual feel bored and frustrated.

>>377562362
Its not even that, take a look at lets say guilty gear xrd, and then look at virtual fighter, I think the one I have is 4,

guilty gear shows what like 10 special moves or something along those lines, but those are FAR from the only things you can do, dead or alive was one that allowed you to see most if not all the moves along with virtua fighter, these two games were the ones my group of friends loved, despite me wiping the floor with them in both, meanwhile guilty gear 2 they liked playing but was frustrating as hell for them

Hidden, unexplained mechanics, along with glitches are tournament fighters bread and butter where all the balance happens, and if you aren't exploiting them the games are boring, if you are, then the games are unfairly one sided.

Let's put it this way, one of the last times friends came over before high school ended, we played dead or alive for hours and even though at this point I was able to beat my friends un touched though just countering alone they still had fun, but if I popped in king of fighters or street fighter in they honestly would not enjoy it at all because of how the games are made and balanced.

>>377558775
>You finding it boring =/= it being shit
True, but game with zero gameolay flaws doesn't mean it is perfect ir good. Mostof my dislike fir those games is personal taste but if you want actual gameolay complains i would say, in skullgitls case, that projectiles are way too strong, not being able to tec trows while crouched and having 3 characters at the same time makes the game look like a mess, infinites trough double snaping shouldnt be in the game at all and, as said previously, the combos are way too long even after the changes and the addtion of extra mechanics to avoid that. This is all from the last time i played the game on pc a few months ago.

In pokkens case i dont really have any since i never found many peopple to play, even during release no one would play the damn thing anywhere, so i don't know if i missed something. I also aint buying a wii u for that either.

>>377563150
Also, sorry for any typying mistakes, I'm on mobile here and eating out.

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>>377540236
/thread

>>377563000
Neutral in GG is harder to get than DoA and VF at a casual level, same with basic combos, I'd say that's the main reason why over "hidden and unexplained mechanics" since those don't see any use in casual play in GG.

>>377535739
OH BOY I HAVE A CRAZY IDEA. WHY NOT START MAKING COMPETENT FIGHTING GAMES FOR mobile phones

>>377535739
Make them free to play with a cash shop for skins and shit.

Right now a lot of people refuse to play them because they are not good enough and don't want to pay 60$ to get beaten to shit.

>>377563370
Nah, GG at least when I was playing it was fairly easy to get into so long as you remember the combos and through play you picked up on some things that were not explained, its more of an observation though because my friends didn't have the game so they never went beyond seeing the move list.

I would say unexplained things, or frame perfect mechanics that the games get balanced around are the issue, as they never see casual play, making multiple characters either unplayable because they rely on those or about as un fun as possible to play. These games are balanced around the tournament scene now, which kills the casualness that brought people into these genres, while raising the floor to a height that people just don't want to deal with. I have been wondering for a long LONG time about if there would be an intuitive way to make a fighting game that wouldn't rely on bullshit, and instead rely solely on reflex and knowledge of what's coming next. I think I found a way but doing it on a normal controler would be hard, but a steam controller, its almost like it was built for it.

the touch pads determine right and left side movements hits and blocks, pushing the pads down would move that side forward or back a step shoulder buttons would be punch or kick and length of press would determine if they are fights, quick or power

It would likely be as intuitive as a fighter could get without some kind of vr like setup.

>>377564281
>I would say unexplained things, or frame perfect mechanics that the games get balanced around are the issue, as they never see casual play, making multiple characters either unplayable because they rely on those or about as un fun as possible to play
Any example?

>>377564281
>and through play you picked up on some things that were not explained,
What are these things? Because I thought the tutorials and that other thing thatexplaining a long list of tactics were very good. It taught you everything from tick throws to fuzzy guards.

>>377542992
Injustice is the better MK game. 2 is at least.

Did fighting games peak in the 7th gen?

SFV, MKX, and Injustice 2 are awful

>>377564423
try playing any of the games with just what the game tells you about or even just from the perspective of someone who only gets to play it when they go to a friends house. the pause menue move list is all you have, but these characters can do so much more.

Usually the ones hit hardest by this are powerhouse characters that are made for you to bide your time and wait for the right moment to hit, and grapple focused characters.

I can't give you more recent examples as once I got out of highschool my group of friends fell apart and I had no one to play the games with anymore and I will not play fighting games online, If I could legitimately say the reason I lost is lag, I never want to play the game as it just makes me feel like shit, I would rather get my ass kicked in person.

>>377564674
There are only 3 fighting games with smei comprehensive tutorials, guilty gear xrd, skull girls, and I think the new street fighter or king of fighters... i'm not sure as I wont buy 5 and the king of fighters is just coming to pc.

Its a relatively new thing to fully explain a fighting game, as stupid as that is.

>>377564904
>the pause menue move list is all you have
There are tutorials in the game that explain most if not all mechanics, in older titles you find them in the manual.

>>377564904
Well you can't expect all of this information to be so easy to understand for someone who only touches the game at their friend's house. Any complex game is going to seem pretty vague and threatening to someone who isn't learning it. Tutorials are getting better as well, and they explain character specific things extremely well. I even here some games put in frame data for those who are interested. If people aren't willing to put in the effort to learn the game, is it really the fault of the game's for not dumping information in the pause menu? I doubt they'd even begin to grasp the concept of certain things without practice.

>>377553542
>and a few other mechanics
You only say that because every fighter that followed Darkstalkers copied those mechanics. Including Street Fighter and Marvel.

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>>377554993
Yeah, it's not like it's the series that Daigo first rose to competitive fame in, or anything.

>>377538424
>Cater to casuals.
>Launch with none of the content a casual player would want.

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>>377542996
Arms does seem like it could have a fair amount of depth with all the different mobility options of the characters as well as all the selectable weapon loadouts.

>>377535739
people need to stop giving money to heartless cashgrab shitty sequels like injustice 2, sfv, mkx, etc. for the sake of muh esports, even if they are devoid of content
also stop with the series-based elitism and autism
also this >>377536294
>>377538527
ps4 and wii u
ps4 for kof, mvc, guilty gear, etc.
wii u for pokken, sm4sh (also tatsunoko vs capcom but its dead af)
also through hacking wii u can play melee natively

>>377565840
frame perfect moves being expected and balanced around is an example, it kills normal/casual appeal

without said appeal, you can't find the games, even the big boys who sell on name alone could not be profitable selling the games anymore.

Personally I would rather the games focus around simpler mechanics, rather then trying to ape tournament players with complexity or frame perfect inputs. it would give the casuals something to do, and look at smash brothers, even though its a party game a tournament scene popped up around it for some retarded reason. Even with simple and easy to use commands the game is able to be stupidly complex without forcing frame perfects.

>>377548771
I'm glad the game has 2v2 as an option. I prefer teams of 2 to 3. It's one of the reasons I don't mind the changes made in MvCI.

>>377566667
>frame perfect moves being expected and balanced around is an example, it kills normal/casual appeal
Those are rarely necessary, even pro players avoid using 1f combos and go for simpler versions of the same combo, you can still win without those because having a strong neutral is more vital than that.

Sfv and smash4 are fun af. Melee is great.

Gg and bb seem cool enough

Injustice/mkx are memes.

>>377567842
Smash 4 loses a lot of its luster when people just run away and dodge-spam, making sets take a looooot longer than they should. Also setplay jank is retardedly strong. Nothing like having to lame out a Bowser because he's just going to pivot grab over and over and you can die in 3-4. I wish that was an exaggeration.

>>377539402
>shrinking
Attendance is larger than ever at tournaments. Streaming led to a fightan Renaissance.