>He thinks tanks are "more practical" than mechs

>>377457693
yea thats why tanks exist

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*blocks ur path*

>>377457750
Fpbp

>>377457693
Nice large unarmored target you got there.

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>>377457693
>"more practical"
Why did you put quotes around this? It literally doesn't change the way it reads?

>>377457750
/thread

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>>377457693
Get a man who can do both

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>>377457765
>interesting monster designs
>look more into the series
>it's weebshit

why does japan do this?

>Tank shell hits mecha joint
>Mech falls over on its face

>>377457968

>Why does Japan make something I like

I don't know what you meant by that

>>377457693
Mechs don't exist

>>377457750
OP BLOWN OUT IN RECORD TIME

>>377458008
>he doesnt add weebshit to his wordfilter
nigger what are you doing

>>377457693
A tank can't get tripped.

>>377457998
>tank gets hit by explosive shell
>it explodes because it couldn't move out of the way in time

>mecha dodges it

From what I remember certain "walking tanks" would be somewhat practical like ones with spider legs or chicken legs, in that case I size seems to matter, but actual humanoid mechs are always impractical.

>>377457693
tanks are literally just mechs on wheels if you think about it

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>>377458358
>wheels

>>377457693
>tanks are smaller
>tanks have more armor
>tanks are cheaper and easier to produce
>tanks are simpler and less likely to fail
>tanks have basically the same firepower

Come on OP, I like mechs and I'm not afraid to admit tanks are better in every way. Tanks and helicopters completely invalidate mechs. There's a reason they're fiction.

>>377458225
Why are mechfags so retarded?

MINOVSKY PARTICLES

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>>377457693
Why not Mech Tanks?

>>377458495
Nice comeback, faggot.

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>>377457693
>drive against legs
>win

>>377458910
>Mech falls down and squishes you
wow brilliant strategy

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>>377458843
The average tank shell travels at a speed of 750 meters per second anon.
How's that for a comeback.

>>377457765
i really liked the mechs in muvluv
it's cool that they existed for a purpose instead of replacing tanks

>>377459139
And double that for modern apds

>>377459094
I'm not an expert but i'm pretty sure Tanks don't get squished, anon.

>>377457693
Who cares about practicality in fiction? It's all about looks

>>377459094
You have to decide, is the mech light enough to dodge shells or heavy enough to squish tanks?

>>377457693
I never fell for the mech meme. Is it just autism and nostalgia at this point?

>>377457693
>More moving parts = more complicated to fix and produce, not to mention being more expensive to make
>Is most likely less fuel efficient because of the big size
>Larger body = easier to target
>Joints get blown up = can't move anymore

>>377459381
It's autism and always has been.

>>377459381
>people like giant fighting robots
Gee.

>>377457693

Neither Tank nor Mech games are much good in vidya without proper destruction physics and should be avoided until developers stop being lazy about it.

>>377459369
Jets are pretty fucking heavy, but they can still dodge.

>>377459381
Let me guess, you love slice of life anime?

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>that code geass game will never be translated

>>377458509
Slower, too high profile, much more likely to sink through/into the ground, more difficult to armor and maintain mobility.

>>377459574
They can't actually. Modern missiles are far more maneuverable than any aircraft could hope to be.

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>>377457693
>let's build a tank
>but let's make it as topheavy as possible
>and make it tower above everything else so it can be seen from the other side of the world
>also give it two obvious weak spots
>make sure it moves on

>>377458271
Isn't it they'd be better in highly uneven terrain or urban environments but worse in more open terrain or in areas where they need to rapidly gain ground.

>>377457750
fpbp for real

>>377459574
Jets don't dodge missiles, they either try to confuse it or just go really fast away from it.

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>>377457750

>>377459592
I'm just saying most mechs look retarded. I like this one the most here though >>377458509

>>377459574
Still only about one third of a tank, and you're absolutely retarded for making the comparison.

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>>377459381
>liking things is autsim
what the fuck isnt autism at this point let people enjoy things ffs
t.someone who doesn't even care for mechs

>he thinks tanks are slow
>he thinks mechs would stand a chance against any kind of aircraft, when even archaic A-10s light tanks up in seconds

>things mechas are better at than tanks

?????

Bigger target, easier to topple, way more prone to mechanical failure oh and protip, they wouldn't glide all over the place and be super agile like muhh animes. They'd be slow walkers which would make them absolutely shit tier

>>377459993
You expect them to know even the first thing about modern warfare?

>>377457693
>tanks
>that are extremely top heavy
>on 2 legs
>somehow better than a low, quick moving, powerhouse
wew lad

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Mechs win against tanks in urban, forest, and hill environments. They have more mobility around corners, obstacles and terrain, not to mention they're able to to shoot from behind cover without needing to roll out of it to do so.

They also have a better vertical view of the field, and when paired with a drone, can pretty much see anything.

They can carry autocannons, tank guns, guided missile launching platforms and even artillery pieces retrofitted for their use, not to mention being able to traverse deep water and over rough terrain treads would otherwise need to wait for a bridge to cross.

Advancement of technology also shows that by the time they become real, such things like compact fusion and drone surveillance will have already fully developed, covering their needs for power and field awareness.

And when it comes to a tank fighting a mech head-on, people realized after WWII that speed + firepower beats armor every day of the week. A squad of mechs that stay mobile can outflank tanks in a combat environment (which sure as hell won't be an open field with no cover because no military is retarded enough to do that in an age where you can be easily spotted and shelled/bombed to death like target practice).

I should also mention that mechs can be any size that fits the role. They don't have to be all big-ass hulking blocks of metal. They can also be fitted with the same countermeasures as tanks, such as smoke grenade launchers and active thermal camouflage.

And if you wanna be anal and pull the textbook "but planes dominate mechs anyway", know that they can also be fitted with anti-air weaponry much like tanks. Even then, tanks were outclassed by aircraft a long time ago, anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q04Jt3Zux7A

With the infinite military industry's logistics, they'll be coming over soon.

This debate is always stupid.

If the tank is constructed with the same tech as the mech it will always be a superior due to being a more stable gun platform (thus able to mount a large gun than a mech of the same weight.), less vulnerabilities, greater range and longer combat time due to fuel/power efficiency.

The only things a mech has going for it is that it can pick things up and it is more manoeuvrable.

There is no denying mechs are cool as hell but anyone who thinks that they are better than a tank of equal weight are deluded.

>>377459968
you sound like an autist desu

>>377459993
A-10s probably wouldn't last long enough to light up tanks in a balanced fight, they were designed to suicide off overwhelming Soviet armour columns, in current year they'd get shot down before they did anything effective unless you already had overwhelming air power.

>>377459993
The A-10's main gun can't even penetrate the top armor of a T-72. Its main armament is an air-to-ground missile which is far from archaic.

>>377459993
A-10s can't do shit against modern tanks.

>>377460295
Bullshit. A-10's are survivable as fuck.

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>>377459574
The only advantage i could possibly think of is some kind of spider tank in something like a swamp, but the hydraulics to operate all these limbs would probably not be worth it.
A tank would absolutely dominate in a city because of its lower profile.
Tanks can also move pretty well in uneven terrain even though it's a bumpy ride.
With a mech i would always consider the risk of one misstep toppling the whole thing over.

Don't most tanks nowadays runs like 60km/h?
Could a mech run at that speed with two legs?

>>377460179
>sending a tank into an urban, forest or mountainous environment
You wage war like an Arab. Stopped reading right there desu senpai.

did /m/ and /k/ ever talk about this?

>>377460179
half the shit you said can be applied to tanks as well. And not everything is purely how well a machine can do something, probably the biggest factory for any large scale fighting is how cost effective it can be for what it does.

>>377460179
mech are never going to be real, there's no kinds of combat they will accel at
you can make a flying armored, weaponized box that's going to be more effective than building a mech

>>377460179
>tanks
>hill environments
wew lad you don't even know how war works do you?

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>>377458225
>Mecha dodges it
Dude are you twelve?

>>377460443
I'm talking about vehicle warfare, not infantry. It's the point of the thread.

>>377460405
Thats the faster ones, but around that speed yes.
And no it certainly would not, hence why all the he claims of mobility being laughable.

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>>377460179
>trust me i'm an expert
>i watched hundreds of animes

I'm a bit out of the loop when it comes to mech games but I have fond memories of Armored Core 2. The last AC game I played, I think it was For Answer, was awful from a technical perspective and map design was trash, too.
Are there any other recent Armored Core games worth checking out? Is there a similar franchise? I never liked Mech Warrior as it was too static and slow but I did like Heavy Gear, Shogo and Slave Zero, if anyone remembers those.

>>377460545
>vehicle warfare happening in urban, forest or mountainous environments
Saddam Hussein was about as smart as you at war.

Mechs are only sensible if they're small enough to fit into buildings and light enough to climb stairs.

These threads are getting fucking retarded.

Tanks are faster low height targets, they are better than mechs at what they are doing i.e. rolling and dishing pain to enemies.

>>377460612
Armored Core 4/FA and Armored Core V/VD are quite good.

We are waiting for a new game.

>>377458225
>tanks shoots mech
>missile fired at point blank range
>missile somehow disappears
>mech disappears
>mech teleports behind tank
>"nothin personnel, kid..."
>unsheathes mech katana
>destroys tank
not even fucking close tank fags btfo'd

>>377460179
>> Super science will make mechs viable!
>> Tanks will stay exactly the same and benefit from none of these advances

It always seemed to me the Goliath design of being primarily mobile AA platforms is the best practical use for them. Or maybe like MAX suits from planetside, just small enough to go indoors.

>>377460373
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/an-a-10-pilot-could-hope-to-last-two-weeks-against-the-soviets-1ebff9bfa4df
They were "survivable" so they could do more damage to Soviet armour columns before they got wiped out. Bare in mind anti-air technology has advanced significantly since their introduction. The whole "unkillable titantium brrrrrt bathtub" meme needs to die.

>>377460179
>My imaginary machine can beat this very real, very practical machine if it was real and practical, which it is neither because it is fake

>better view of the field
And much more vulnerability. If you can see a target over cover, *they* can see *you* too. There's a reason tanks are built low.

>They can carry....
Anything a mech can carry, a tank built using similar technology can carry better and store more ammunition for.

>Advancement of technology...
Any technological advancement that makes a mech more effective also makes a tank more effective. Irrelevant.

>Muh mobility
You make a fair point, but I'm pretty confident any wheeled or tracked vehicle could easily out-pace any leg-driven machine. It doesn't matter how quickly you can change directions when your top speed is still half that of your opponent.

>They can be any size
If it's the same size as a tank, why not just use the tank?

If it's bigger than the tank, why not invest in several smaller mechs instead for redundancy? Three of one is better on the battlefield than one of three, if you follow my logic.

If it's more infantry-sized, why not just use an infantryman?

>>377460179
>They can carry autocannons, tank guns, guided missile launching platforms and even artillery pieces
You mean like tanks?

>not to mention being able to traverse deep water and over rough terrain
Yeah so like tanks then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He9KXalXnv8

>>377460373
A-10s have the highest losses in the theater. They get fucking trashed

>>377460373
Survivable for an aircraft, they can take a beating, but against dedicated air defense a few extra levels of armor is not going to help them

>>377460769
Mechs are shit, exosuits might have a future depending on how they can lower the costs.

Real life crysis when?

>>377460448
>did

Do. There's probably at least one thread every week.

>>377459869
The problems are more so a cost thing. Bipedal motion is incredibly complex (thus balooning costs for designing suitable control systems to balance the mech) and you can't make it too armoured since all that mass will make it more likely to topple over.

They'd be okay in mountains/uneven terrain but we can just have a predator drone fire a missile for a fraction of the cost instead. Urban areas it would fare better than a tank in some aspects (lacks the limited gun elevation drawback tanks have, can maneuver around obstacles) but still suffers from many of the drawbacks of tanks in an urban evironment (small confined spaces, buildings make it easy to shoot at its weak spots from a variety of angles)

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>>377460497

Do you?

Hills are the optimal spot for tanks to rain shells on the opposition, and also its worst nightmare, since their turrents usually can't aim high enough to return fire on whatever's attacking them from above. Go read some history on the Soviet-Afghan war, bud.

>>377460643
Armored vehicles today are used to seize, hold and defend ground, along with infantry. So yes, they'll be in those environments as well.

>>377460831
Good luck traversing a river deeper than 6 meters or going over a steep obstacle of the same height.

>>377460991
>turrents
turrets*

>>377460991
>traversing a river deeper than 6m

Any army that can field mechs can also field bridge-laying vehicles.

>>377460643
>Infantry deployed in city
>deploy mechs
>infantry are now fucked

congrats

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>>377460179
>hill environments
The stridsvagn 103 would like a word.
Good luck trying to shoot something that has an effective elevation of less than 1m that is also returning fire.

>people realized after WWII that speed + firepower beats armor every day of the week

Are you completely retarded? if armour wasn't useful it wouldnt be a feature anymore. The moment a gun fails to penetrate armour the wielder has lost the fight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chobham_armour

>>377460967
I'd imagine speed and the larger profile would be an issue in open areas. A spider/chicken legged tank is going to be slower than a tracked tank and its going to have a larger profile, both of which are going to be issues in more open combat. In urban environments the increased mobility and ability to more easily traverse rubble is an advantage and in really uneven terrain the profile and speed advantage is effectively nullified anyway

>>377461121
My point is the time you waste waiting for engineers to deploy said bridge.

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>mfw people conflate 'mech' with 'mecha'

>>377461140
Infantry would be carrying AT weapons. AT weapons that would be *far* more effective against mechs because a mech can't have the same armor as a tank.

>>377461140
You do realize that infantry has carried anti-armor capability since WW2 right? There's a reason why Assad lost almost all of his armor in the first few months of the war and that's because unsupported armor gets torn to pieces in urban environments.

>>377461140
That sounds fucking stupid though and fucking expensive for no reason.

>force deploys infantry
>You deploy fucking drones.

There is NO theatre of war where Mechs would be better than the alternative.

>>377458225
*teleports behind you*

>>377459717
>Tachikoma
>"slower than a tank"
What? Those fuckers haul ass.
>"high profile"
They are literally half the size of a tank, and make way less noise. Not to mention them having individual armored limbs vs. solid, bulky mass leads to them being harder to hit targets.

>>377461221
If we're talking about speed, tanks would be faster than mechs would be anyway. Fuck's sake, the bridge-laying machine would be able to move faster than the mech would be.

Leg-driven motion is slow as shit compared to wheels and tracks.

>>377461195
>The moment a gun fails to penetrate armour the wielder has lost the fight.
Good thing momentum beats armor, huh? Because even modern MANPADS can penetrate tank armor easily nowadays.

Dumbshit.

>>377460991
>Good luck traversing a river deeper than 6 meters

There are literally dozens of fully or partially amphibious tanks.

>>377457968
gib sauce pls

>>377457948

FUCK YOU HORSES

YOU BET A VEHICLE STAR NOT A MECH STAR

FUCK YOU AND YOUR TRANSFORMING HORSE FETISH

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>>377461394
>MANPADS can penetrate tank armor

>>377461359
I think he's more just going off the realistic version rather than them in universe, because they are magical bullshit.

Also they're not really tanks, in any way.

>>377460373
>no stealth
>against concentrated modern russian air defences
>survivable

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>>377460898
I remember when Battletech introduced Battlearmors to the game and pretty much admitted that a hundred guys in mansized suits are much more terrifying and versatile than one guy in a big mech.

I feel like mechs would make more sense being smaller and more agile. Maybe like the geckos from mgs4, minus the mooing. They'd be pretty effective in anti personnel engagements in urban environments just from the intimidation factor alone

>>377461359
>Those fuckers haul ass
In an anime. In real life a wheeled or tracked vehicle would be better.
>half the size of a tank

Then they carry less ammunition, weaponry, armor, etc. The same can be said if you compare them to IFV's which is probably a better comparison.

>>377461496
doesnt have to pen to knock it out

>>377461416
Name an amphibious MBT that can traverse a 6 meter deep river then.

>>377457968
>interesting monster designs

Sure, if you measure it against monster designs from shit like Symphogear.

>>377461504
I was gonna say that, on top of everything. However - I don't see why you couldn't load a 120mm cannon onto one, if they did exist.

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I'm really confused here. Are people actually claiming that a fictional fantasy vehicles would do better in modern warfare than actual tanks that have been perfected for nearly a decade now by literally thousands of scientists and engineers?

>>377461579
Also wasn't the tachikomas also wheeled, they certainly didn't move the legs.

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who cares if it would work in real like because super robot is better than real robot anyway

Let's work from the other way around since mech are unrelaistic. What sort of technologies/warfare innovations would have to exist/not exist to mechs viable over tanks (and possibly airplanes)?

>>377461607
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stridsvagn_103

>>377461536
I remember when Battletech introduced tanks and they were better than mechs.

That's why don't don't try to make your mechs "realistic".

>>377461607
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD_tank

>>377461579
Tank or mech - The more armor/ammo they carry, the bigger they are. So that's kind've a null point. A tachikoma would probably have comparable armor to an APC/IFV, and roughly the same mobility. I'd rather have 6 or 7 of those driving around unmanned than 1 tank with a crew of possible casualties.

>>377461619
You underestimate the size of a tank cannon, plus loader, ammo etc.

>>377461619

You could, but if you're comparing it to a wheeled chassis, the wheeled chassis would be more stable and could hold more ammunition.

>>377461714
If they were fucking wheeled why did they have goddamn legs in the first place

What the fuck is this anime bullshit? Did they just pop rollerblade wheels into the feet like it's strutting about on goddamn future-Heelies?

>>377459574
Dumbass

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>>377461496
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grw2xeXXII0
https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/houthi-rebels-destroy-m1-abrams-tanks-with-basic-irania-1726478735

>>377461670
Yes, there are a few idiots in this thread claiming that their thousands of hours of watching Animu make them experts in military hardware.

>>377461536

Everyone knows that giant mechs are largely impractical with our current knowledge of science and warfare.

But at the same time, it's perfectly fine to make a fictional setting where advances and in-game rules conform to making 'mechs the most versatile or dominant form of warfare for whatever reason since the designers really like giant mechs.

Battletech is one of the better mecha settings since they don't fellate 'mechs as the ultimate form of warfare, like in other games or media. Battlemechs are really versatile and can usually kill an equal force made of tanks/infantry, but tanks/infantry/planes are far from obsolete.

>>377461767
If firearms and explosives didn't exist, mechs would be pretty damn good.

>>377461767
The laws of physics would have to be different.

>>377461670
>tanks that have been perfected for nearly a decade

Pretty sure it's been a century.

>>377461714
they can do both
their walking is slow and clunky though
they roll way faster
but tanks have a similar design in gits

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As much as I love mechas/mechs, they don't have any practical military applications. So far, the most practical mecha would probably be the VF series of fighters from Macross, because they're just planes with VTOL capability outside of the Battleroid mode.

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Can we just talk about our favourite /v/idya mechas and tanks rather than repeat the same shit in a pissing fight about real life weaponry and fantasy machines that happens every thread?
>>377461670
Yes.

Tachikoma's could "skate" or walk.

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>>377461670
no no no you see, According to my extra specific environments and situations, as well as many biases, mech can totally destroy tanks. my anime says so.

Meme powered mechs might work

>>377461868
I stand corrected. How embarrassing.

>>377461580
>that backpedaling

It will neither be a mobility kill nor a firepower kill. At most if you get a new imaging stinger or something it may or may not lock on even though it was not designed to do so and you'll scratch one of their optics if you get lucky, but then their other sight will kill you.

>>377461820
you can still fuck any armored vehicles with enough cocktail molotov

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>>377461786
No, your little spider robot would *not* have the same armor. It is comprised of multiple components with much smaller cross-sections, which don't allow for as much armor as a single structure with a large cross-section. Not to mention joints.

And do not make me explain why wheels and treads have better mobility than goddamn robot legs.

Not to mention this stupid thing would cost several times more than a traditional IFV. Things would be even worse if it somehow has the same amount of armor, meaning you'd be able to field even LESS

It's fun to pretend and enjoy impractical but cool things in anime and video games but for FUCK'S SAKE people, stop trying to say it could work in real life.

>>377461820
>export models

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>>377457750
practical fag detected

who else /impractical/ here?

>>377461809
>Did they just pop rollerblade wheels into the feet like it's strutting about on goddamn future-Heelies?
Yes, the wheels can also retract iirc so the legs can be used as legs on terrain where the little wheels would only get stuck.

>>377460295
>they were designed to suicide off overwhelming Soviet armour columns
Are you retarded? A10 routinely return with their wings shot to shit. It's common for a smashed A10 to return with an incomplete wing on the power of one engine

>>377461820
Isnt that the shit export version of the abrams though? anyway you should find that Abrams being torched by an IED if you want to rub it in.

>>377461820
What do you think MANPADS stands for?

>>377461903
yeah plus the mech mode can be utilized to aboard ships

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>>377461772
>The one tank that can go amphibious is also the one that never saw combat
You tried.

>>377461781
>WWII equipment for 10-ton vehicles
lmao kid
Modern tanks are at least in the 50 mark.

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>>377461909

The Awesome.

It's a brick of a 'mech with 3 PPCs.

The only variant in over 2 centuries that was a true improvement on the design was to add one more PPC and upgrade the heat sinks.

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>>377462042
And people think that this would allow it to move as quickly as a 4x4 with AWD and sensibly-sized wheels.

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never ever

>>377461767
Some kind of antigravity device that could allow them to slide and jump around like in animes i guess.

>>377462078
ATGMs are man-portable, dumbass. It means it can be carried by people, they don't need vehicles to carry them around. Crews carry them around.

>>377462139
Nowadays? Fuck no.
100 years from now? Possibly.

>>377462089
Well I'm sure you have more examples of amphibious mechs that saw a lot of combat?

>>377462183
What do you think the ADS part stands for?

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ever

>>377462089
Nice goalposting moving autist.

>>377462180
If you want something fast like that but without the giant monsters play Project Nimbus. It's a decent mech game on steam.

>>377462063
>>377462025
Still tanks.

>>377462051
Look up the declassified planning documents from back then, I even provided a source in another reply and you can find plenty of them yourself. Against actual anti-air or air power that isn't already crippled and outdated like everything they've actually fought against they'd get destroyed and that was their intention. To delay soviet armour columns.

>>377462005
Actually, Tachikomas made sense in their setting. They are elite veicles for covert operations. They even get reck against real military vehicles.

You should watch GitS, is a good show.

>>377462139
No, but they're faster than a cyborg running, so they're effective for the intended use.

They aren't for hitting hard, slow targets like a Tank is, they're for Anti-Personnel in an age where terrorists are fucking cyborgs.

>>377462231
>basic physics and engineering principles will stop applying in 100 years

>>377461575
The only real "mech" I can see being adapted is stuff like exosuits and improvements to infantry. Infantry are still viable and needed in the modern era of tanks and jets, so something that can help infantry on the field and carry heavy equipment or run faster would be valuable.

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You guys hear about the new chinese robot?
Even if military shit is never ever obviously, can we hope for recreational robot fights every 5 years?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x1AVFRpUHQ

Kuratas v Megabots WHEN

>>377461536
I've always thought mechanics only shine in settings with almost limitless resources except for manpower. Space, for example, when you can mine planets empty in a week but you have 2 billion people to protect 10 billion miles of border. Something these arguments rarely consider is that mechs are almost always piloted by one person while a tank has a crew of four or five..

>>377461767
Spiral power.

>>377462261
The fact that the buoyant system it uses was forgotten/replaced by bridges proves that it's fucking useless, just like you.

>>377462259
If you have a weapon that can pierce that helicopter armor, why would you stick a rope to it instead of something explosive?

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*Blocks your canon scenario's path*

>>377461809
>If they were fucking wheeled why did they have goddamn legs in the first place
Stairs.

>>377459381
>Mechs are a meme
>He doesn't like giant robots
Did you not get the memo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-kYiDbG39s

>>377462378
Can it do anything else than slowly move it's head?

>>377462051
ww2 bombers returned all the time missing massive chunks, they still had massive casualty rates, you can't fly if you lose both wings and all engines go out

>>377462231
Let's take two cars. On one we'll put four regular car wheels on and power with all wheel drive. Don't worry about specifics of transmission, engine, etc. The engine magically supplies power directly (and equally) to all four wheels.

Now replace that exact same setup with eight, much smaller, roller-blade-sized wheels.

I'll give you a hint: Because of leverage, the larger wheels move faster.

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>>377461779
Gundam does it right by adding Minovsky Particles which is basically the THIS IS WHY HUMANOID ROBOTS ARE MADE, AND WHY THEY ARE SUPERIOR TO TANKS AND GIANT SPACESHIPS AND SPACE PLANES particle.

>>377461394
This must be a joke. Something fired off a blokes has nowhere near enough force to go through tank armour. You either need another tank or a railgun to go through a modern tanks armour.

>>377461820
That is NOT a MANPAD which is used to shoot down fucking helicopters.
The problem here is the tank is over 30 years out of date. Thats the equivalent of going into world war 1 with a Tiger 2. Old tanks suffer from poor upper armour because the technology didn't exist to get a big enough explosive above the tank when they were designed.

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>>377462127
for me, it's the catapult k2

>>377462254
>What are tandem charges

>>377462051
Are you retarded?

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*blocks ur path*

>>377462259
>Project hon
No thanks, I don't want a dirty frenchie fucking up mechs.

>>377462549
>Minovsky Particles
Hey, if these were real planes wold be BTFO and tanks would be kings.

>>377461767
the known laws of aviation would have to not work, as well as wind resistance being non existent so they can fly around like the do in the anime's

>>377462681
Just send in a team of ninjas with wrenches. They'll take apart all the bolts holding those together and then they'll fall apart for the tanks to drive over.

>>377462371
Nothing's limiting how big it has to be. It doesn't have to be bite-sized anime mecha. It can be tank sized, and have a full sized engine/drivetrain/axels/hydraulics.

Again. Not saying it's practical, or even efficient. Just saying it's possible, given 100 years of technological innovation.

70 years ago, cars were built out of fucking steel and handled about as well as a fucking kumquat. Now, we have cars that can rotate their wheels independently to allow you to parallel park sideways. Shit changes, over the years. Who knows what kind of advances can be made in that time. Shit, we may have tanks that move twice as fast as a standard diesel tank, and maneuver on a fucking dime, by them.

>>377462427
mech are powered by the rule of cool

Motorcycle tank drones BTFO both of them anyway

>>377461767
Energy shields? That way survivability has much less to do with the actual shape and structure of the machine in question.

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>Tankfags
HahahahahahaHHHHIIIIISSSSSSS

>>377462520
It's chink, what do you think.
>>377462685
>tanks in space
Unless...

>>377462739
Or they could just be fighting against military doctrines like America, who refuses to fly without total air superiority.

>>377462551
>You either need another tank or a railgun to go through a modern tanks armour.

I'm not an expert on the matter, but are railguns really something that have any practical uses in modern warfare? I know that US Navy built one, but it was huge and really not any better than just traditional missiles. And I find it hard to believe that a smaller non-explosive railgun projectile could get through modern reactive armor plates.

>>377462791
I understand the argument you're trying to make but ANYTHING that makes the spider-bot-with-wheels-in-its-feet design more viable would ALSO apply to the traditional 4x4, 8x8, or tracked design.

Generally, anything that tries to do two very different jobs with equal ease performs worse than something intended to do just one of those jobs.

That's why flying cars aren't a thing and sporks are only used by campers.

>>377461767
Instead of using mechanical mechs you close some giant aliens with forcefields in your basement and call it a day.

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>>377462381
Yeah, and in early Battletech 30 years ago it felt like that. Like a single lance (4 guys) or a comapny (12 guys) would be considered a considerable garrisson for a valuable planet.
But as the game went on FASA felt they needed to raise the stakes and just kept piling things on and on.

>>377462641
There is, as far as I am aware, no man portable air defence system that employs a tandem charge because there exists no air vehicle with ERA. Yet. Also because with HEAT you need to actually impact to do damage while surface to air missiles are either blast frag for proximity damage or continuous rod. Javelins may work against slow helicopters but that's not their primary purpose.

>>377462883
Thank you for reminding me of the days I made my little brother rage quit by killing his miners with these annoying fucks.

>>377463008
Compared to chemical-powered projectiles, railgun projectiles can hit stupidly high velocities. More velocity means more kinetic energy, more penetration, generally more damage. Their trajectories are flatter and the projectiles move faster, making hitting both stationary and moving targets much easier.

So far, the main problem with railguns is energy production and energy storage. They require HUGE amounts of energy, and that energy needs to come through all at once, so they're attached to these fuckhuge capacitor banks. Impractical now, but with better capacitors and power supplies, a railgun could surpass a similarly-sized chemical-driven projectile.

If a mech can not fit on a flatbed truck it is too big. Front mission can explain in detail.
Senjutsuki were not made to fight humans so they get a pass. Mobile suits were designed by humans living in space so they get half credit.

>>377463246
Too bad batteries and capacitors are the one fucking thing Humanity just can't seen to improve.

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Can tank and mechfags all agree that Star Wars vehicles are fucking retarded? The ATTE and AT AT are stupid machines. Why is the ATTE so high up for a troop carrier, the clones either have to wait for the ATTE to lower itself or risk a 15 foot drop. It doesn't mean I don't like them, I just find it kinda silly.

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>Just hit le legs lmao
Yeah, good luck aiming for them.

>>377461767
What about space warfare? Would mechs be any good there or would you just want ships
>>377462392
And sadly that's pretty much true

>>377463246
So with just pure fuckton of kinetic energy, could you get through reactive armor? Even though the projectile wouldn't be any bigger or more advanced that a normal rocket or a grenade?

>>377463246
What about over penetration and collateral damage

>>377462562
MWO was ruined by shitters like you

go home

>>377463336
Votoms?

>>377463395
Barely nothing in Star Wars is practical, is just fantasy in the space.

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>>377463517
>What about over penetration and collateral damage

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>>377463548
I didn't play k2 in MWO though, I always played lights or mediums

>>377463517
I'm no engineer, but squash-head and frangible projectiles are a thing. Not everything needs to be a penetrator. It wouldn't even need to penetrate to do damage: hitting with enough force to disintegrate or warp the chassis/structure of whatever it's hitting should be enough to fuck up both the crew and some vital systems.

>>377463506
Probably. I mean, all ERA does is push the projectile away. All you have to do to get past it is push even harder.

>>377463397
Does Titanfall have something like a ropecaster so you can make these retarded things trip and fall in passages like in that webm?
Feels like the game would benefit from that.

>>377463570
Yeah, in a world with faster than light travel, the protagonists main weapon of choice is a fucking a sword.

>>377461809
They can also scale walls. They're literally spider tanks.

>>377460179
>Urban, Forest, Hill
Tank urban survival kits and upgrades, camouflage and hull down fighting, and hull down fighting. I'll put money on a tank's mantlet and glacis taking more punishment than a mech's joints or articulation points.

Tanks can be paired with helicopters for hunter killer operations, and drones, so it renders your second point moot.

Tanks can carry autocannons, tank guns, and guided missiles as well. Poor weight distribution on a mech's frame will render it inoperable in deep water.

Advancement of technology also shows tanks being equipped with more powerful and more efficient power plants, lasers, railguns, and improved normal ammunition capable of damaging mechs from ranges and fighting positions where mechs can't do anything.

Tanks can also stay incredibly mobile, and achieve great accuracy on the move with on board stabilizer systems, which nearly every current gen tank has.

A platoon of tanks can bring more firepower and protection to a fight than mechs can.

Mechs will always be worse off than tanks because of their joints and weight distribution, which is something that narrow minded mechfags fail to recognize because they are delusional. One hit to a shoulder rotator, elbow joint, wrist joint, or aiming center mass with a long rod penetrator will easily defeat a mech with one shot.

The fact that mechs have to be lightly protected in order to retain mobility is what will be their downfall. The more weight you add to a human style frame, the worse its performance gets. You can say the same about tanks, but with better engines, a wider weight distribution, and overall better base protection is why tanks will always be used, not mechs.

Lahire builds are not shit

>>377463710
No nigga. Hydraulics can snap steel ropes pretty easily.

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Speed is the essence of war.
A FV101 Scorpion tank from 1973 can reach a speed of 82km/h so lets say there's going to be an airstrike right in the middle of a battle between some old tanks and some mechs.
Can the mechs run at 82km/h to avoid getting destroyed? No? Then is fucking useless my dumb negroes.

>>377463754
How? Regardless of how it anchors to the wall, that much weight is going to fuck it up. Walls are generally designed to support up-and-down loads, not side-to-side.

What about construction or recreational usage of mechas?

>>377463008
Practically rail guns suck because they are TOO powerful. Due to more electrical power creating a bigger magnetic force you can make these things fire a projectile so fast it will go through just about anything. The problem is the ridiculous force of this projectile usually warps or breaks the rails rendering the gun useless after the first shot.

The solutions to this are:

>Less power
This is pretty much what you described it can be fired multiple times but the trade off in power makes it no better than conventional weapons

>Make it cheap
This gives it potential to be used as a "Trump Card" its got crazy power but you can only use it once because it will break its self. This is only really worth it if they dont cost much.

>>377461443
Muv Luv Alternative.
No you do not need to play Extra and Unlimited.
After Muv Luv Alternative you can play Muv Luv Altered Fable - it comes with a turn based strategy game.
Muv Luv Alternative Chronicles 01 has a cool story about Orbit Divers.
Muv Luv Alternative Chronicles 02, 03, 04 are a story set in an alternate timeline where the protagonist of Muv Luv Alternative failed to complete his mission.

>>377457765
>[GIANT ENEMY CRAB NEVER EVER]

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>>377459993
>aircraft can kill mechs
come say that to my face big boy

>>377463807
>Mechs can't run lol why would anyone think of that
How convenient for you.

>>377463717
there really needs to be a blaster jedi in the movies

>>377463706
Your replies kinda disagree with each others. If your projectile is not supposed to go through the target, then how could it get past the reactive plates in the first place?

Again, I have to remind that I don't actually know anything about this shit, just seems like it wouldn't work.

>>377463845
They have a grappling hook and cling to walls with the feet. I've seen them swing from webs and seat thieves just like flies.

>>377463948
How fast do you think a mech could run?

>>377463867
Construction exo-skeletons would almost certainly be better unless we start building much bigger structures. Recreational mecha is when I lose all my money

>>377461456
t. Clan scum
Trash born still pretending that Zell actually means anything.

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>>377463867
>construction
Just a overdesigned crane. I could find exoskeletons pretty useful in a lot of situations tho.

>recreational
Who knows.

>>377463992
You can have multiple projectiles designed for multiple purposes. That's what modern tanks do. Penetrators defeat heavy armor, HESH causes spalling that fucks with the crew, HEAT is useful against light armor and infantry, etc.

>>377464021
They sure can turn and leg it faster than a tank can switch to reverse and pick up speed.

>>377463976
Or someone who uses ballistic weapons. Literally just anyone with a 7,62mm full automatic.

>>377459968
>what the fuck isnt autism at this point let
Banging your head against the wall because it's an odd numbered day.

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This tank or 'mobile tank' is capable of single handily take on 6 Zakus with artillery support

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/YMT-05_Hildolfr

>>377464021
83 km/h :^)

>>377464136
Legs allow for quicker starting, stopping, and general directional change.

Wheels allow for faster flat-out movement.

This is not up for debate.

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Did somebody say speed?

>>377463845
>>377464004
That last part is a joke it doesn't make webs it just has a grappling hook for descending tall places and climbing them.

>>377464243
lewd

Jehuty would beat any tank. We just need to skip all the learning and iteration process and start with Jehuty.

>>377464224
>Legs allow for quicker starting, stopping, and general directional change.
Faster to run and take cover, yeah. It works.

>>377464136
Yeah that's nice and all but I'm talking about how many km per hour it can reach.
Because it's an airstrike, not some small rocketlaucher shit so if the mech its agile enough to dodge small things doesn't really matter then the explosion is the size of a building.

Who played Battle Clash and Metal Combat here?

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>>377464303

>>377464281
I figured dude. I actually laughed at the web part. Grappling hook makes sense, I guess. As much as anything else about it does.

Again, I have no issue with impractical and dumb stuff in fiction. It's fun, I get it, I just get pissed off when people try to argue how it could work in real life.

>>377464332
What difference does it make how quickly it can move into cover? Missiles and projectiles move at hundreds, even thousands of meters per second. You're not going to fucking dodge that shit.

Furthermore, a tank would be able to make better use of cover and terrain than a mech would, anyway, because it's so low to the ground.

>>377464149
just watch that old movie where the entire plot point is about some people able to swish their gun while firing and fire bullets around corners

>>377463807
>Can the mechs run at 82km/h to avoid getting destroyed? No? Then is fucking useless my dumb negroes.
Mechs can fly in space and fight with space battleships.

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>>377463891
>you do not need to play Extra and Unlimited.

>>377464149
I'm no SW autist but I think kinetic weapons are still a thing in the setting and they're used for special purposes.

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>>377461394
>MANPADS
>Pen tanks

Are you sure you don't mean A SACLOS like a TOW or something? Also none of those use "Momentum" to pen armor.

>>377464335
Well considering mechs are just fantasy vehicles, just pick any number and go with it.

60 km/h? Sure.
300 km/h? Why not?
Mach 5? Hell yes!

>>377464492
>wanted is old
You have to be 18 to post here, son.

>>377464472
>Missiles and projectiles move at hundreds, even thousands of meters per second.
Tanks don't.

>a tank would be able to make better use of cover and terrain than a mech would, anyway, because it's so low to the ground.
>A mech can't go prone
k

>>377464636
im 26 :(

>>377464554
You do not see any cool aliens in Extra and Unlimited.

>>377464667
Too old. This board is exclusively for 18 - 25 year old white males.

>>377464667
You're 26 and a movie from 2008 is an old movie? Son, put down the smart phone. They're bad for you. Go live in a monastery for a few years.

>>377463473
Why would you need arms and legs in space? You'd be better off with just a ship.

>>377464807
Ships can't make obscene gestures.

>>377464647
>tanks don't
Mechs wouldn't either you fucking cunt. That's why it's a goddamn moot point as to how well it can dodge or change direction.

>>377464806
does it help if my life expectancy is 30?

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I love mechs and some tanks.

>>377457750
FPBP
P
B
P

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Just dodge the missiles while running at 10km/h on those two legs full of dexterity ;^)

>>377464930
It's also a goddamn moot point to argue tanks escaping airstrikes because they fucking can't. Aircraft completely dominate tanks period. The payload's gonna hit them before they even see the planes.

Now fuck off.

>>377465001
Monastery again. If that's what they told you you're gonna need Gods help. As an alternative, a Nunnery would be more fun for your last 4 years.

>>377460898
CLOAK ENGAGE
CLOAK ENGAGE
CLOAK ENGAGE
CLOAK ENGAGE
CLOAK ENGAGE
CLOAK ENGAGE

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>>377457693
>love tanks
>love mecha
>love mil shit
>love anime
>love vidya

This thread is shit

>>377465084
I wasn't the guy who brought up air-strikes asshat. I was just pointing out the absurdity of trying to say a machine driven by legs would be able to keep up with a machine driven by wheels.

Stop trying to justify this anime bullshit. Mechs are fun in fiction, but utterly impractical in real life. I don't know how many goddamn times it needs to be said and explained until people just start enjoying mechs as fiction and stop trying to support some autistic fantasy of US Marines doing patrols in Fallujah with Metal Gear Military Industrial Complex clanking about behind them.

>>377465114
why would i become a monk when im already bald and chaste, anon
that's stupid

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I love mechs, but literally the only thing I can see them being good for is intimidation. Imagine some of that shit coming at you or stomping around near you.

>>377465224
+1

>>377465278
Become a D&D monk then.

>>377465278
Might as well make it official, yo.

So when does a normal exoskeleton rig become a mech? What's the difference?

>>377465363
but vow of poverty irl is shit

>>377465410
When cups do the Jurassic park water thing when you walk by.

>>377465410
I guess think of an exoskeleton as a petal car and a mech as a golf cart.

>>377465410
If it gets bigger than Fallout 4 style power armor.

>>377465460
There's all kinds of monks, even if you stick within Christianity.

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>>377465224
They always are.

I dunno, if you need sci-fi future magic bullshit to make mechs work why not just apply that future magic technowizardry to tanks and make them better?

>>377465410
Guess you "wear" the exoskeleton and "pilot" the mech in a seat.

>>377465564
I believe this is the exact universally accepted scientific definition.

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>>377465578

>>377465564
>>377465724

From Merriam-Webster:

Mech: "Exoskeleton that's bigger than Fallout 4 style power armor"

>>377465724
My textbook back in High School used the Jurassic Park method that >>377465479 mentioned, but they were published back in 1968 so it's probably out of date anyway.

>>377457693
Practical? No. Not at all. Larger target, harder to piolet, probably way more expensive to manufacture too. Definitely cooler though.

>>377457693
>Mech
Too got damn expensive. That's why in mech games that reward you for being efficient and/or take money out your pay when you return damaged or out of ammo.

Awhile back there was a discussion/debate in the Armored Core general about if 6 Mechs and Answerer (Their home base) tried to take over the current world (meaning our world) who would win. The outcome is always the same. Mechs die, humanity lives. They won't even do much damage to the planet either.

>>377461619
A 120mm gun produces an assload of recoil. It's essentially impossible to stabilize that on something bipedal while not making it weigh MORE than an MBT.
You could make it a recoilless gun, but that makes reloading it super hard and you can't use sabots or most tank rounds in general.

>>377457693
Mechs are better. Source: armored core is better than every tank game put together.

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>>377463548
>He thinks the K2 was only in MWO.

If actual mechs were better than modern tanks, we'd have those instead of tanks in the military.

Can we now drop this stupid argument?

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Are we ever getting Armored Core 6?

>>377466001
>6
Well obviously. I doubt 6 fucking star destroyers with complete tie loadout would be able to overwhelm the entire planet.

>>377465343
I thought that was the back story to BattleTech. They originally made the first mech, the Mackie, as the "fuck you don't fight us cause look at this shit" weapon. Then they made better ones that blew up way more shit than intended.

>>377466298
A single Star Destroyer could conquer this planet. Nothing we have would scratch it and it could just sit in orbit glassing cities until we surrender.

Holding the planet would be the difficult part.

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>>377464472
You should play the PS1 GitS game. It's one of my favorite games and you play as a fuchikoma, zipping around walls and shit.

>>377460991
>>377461121
>>377461371
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_wading
A bridge laying vehicle wouldn't even be necessary. Tanks can easily be outfitted to drive completely submerged in the water, this technology has been in existence for decades, with the Maus prototypes also being designed to do so.

>>377461607
>>377462394
You're fucking retarded.
Leopard 2, both still in service and still in production, most tanks are capable of deep wading due to the emphasis on river crossings in the European theater and the threat of Soviet expansionism during the Cold War.
You fucking retarded cocksucking mechfag

>>377465769
I remember that movie Stock footage desert was best character

>>377466517
Plus anything that wasn't on treads would get super-stuck in the river mud.

>>377457693
mechs are a retarded waste of resources and manpower, power armor is where the future's at

>>377462739
And inertia being only a suggestion instead of a law.

>>377466730
Aren't they the same thing basically?

>>377466416
The shield generators are shielded and vulnerable to kinetic damage. We have missiles that reach space, and star destroyer defences have trouble with fighters. They rely on ties for intercepting, not point defence. And ties are all unshielded. And this is assuming an emp from a nuke wouldn't affect shields like a ywing ion cannon. We could absolutely wreck a star destroyer.

>>377466251
future mechs will be better than modern tanks but future tanks will be better than both

>>377466804
>Aren't they the same thing basically?
but on a smaller more sustainable and feasible scale

>>377466909
>future mechs

Why would anyone build them? You said it yourself, future tanks will be better.

>>377466838
Our missiles follow trajectories. They don't evade like X wings. Turbolaser batteries would smoke them.

>>377460746
>>377461357
IT WAS MERELY A
HOLOGRAM
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O
G
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A
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>>377466973
So where's the actual limit? How big does a power armor have to be to become a mech?

>>377466986
I believe that was his point.

Conventional warfare is a thing of the past anyway. Aside from counter insurgencies and small scale police action, tanks or mechas are irrelevant in a world where we can destroy entire cities by pressing a button

>>377466838
We absolutely could not. To even begin to deal with the rigors of space travel an interstellar craft would have to be able to withstand forces so far in advance of what an nuclear warhead is capable of outputting. Not to mention how the nukes would be hilariously handicapped by a vacuum.

>>377466376

Close.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mackie

The Mackie was one of the first Battlemechs created, and managed to triumph over several conventional tanks that were deployed to fight it. A single 100-ton 'mech managed to destroy four 75-ton tanks.

The Mackie, like all modern battlemechs, are usually better than tanks in a fight due to in-universe technological advances that make it so. One of the biggest factors are Myomer Bundles, which act as artificial muscles. Myomer makes it so that 'mechs can carry lots of weapons and armor while still maintaining speed and mobility when compared to vehicles. They can also carry jump jets which also helps their maneuverability.

However, 'mechs are more expensive, rarer, and harder to maintain than tanks. Certain types of tanks can be a huge pain in the ass for battlemechs to deal with.

>>377467087
...so if we're never ever going to see future mechs, how do we know they're gonna be better than the tanks of today?

>>377463867
>recreational usage of mechas
Mechas are not for sexual!

>>377466838
>We have missiles that reach space
I don't think we do. Not officially at least.

>>377458436
Mechs have more hard points for weapons and more advantage in traversing vertical terrain. Also slightly better for urban shit where being able to rotate and use buildings as cover is better than having to rotate the main gun and come all the way out. Also mechs are cooler unless the tanks are hovering and have the bombest ass aesthetics.

>>377457750
FPBP

>>377467208

Person A Argues that a mech made with future technology can beat a modern tank

Person B adjusts the argument, counter-argues that a tank made with future technology would beat a mech made with future technology

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>>377466376
>I thought that was the back story to BattleTech
I thought it was "try to copy Robotech without being sued". It didn't worked well.

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>>377457693
OP do you have any idea how much it would cost to build just ONE of those?!?!?!?

We haven't been to bottom of the ocean nor we haven't perfected space travel and this nigga wants to increase taxes to build a fucking mech.

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>>377467075
power armor is man sized, mechs are anything that would be bigger than a tank. the military still needs a far better power source before being able to add in extra armor but they're getting there

>>377466265
So long as soulsfags salivate for more souls, probably not. Late last year there was word that a new one was in the works, so all we can do is pray it doesn't end up canceled. Maybe, if we're lucky we'll see something at e3.

>>377465343
And then you realize how easy it is to topple it or cripple it.
Bipedal mechas are shit tier.

>>377461195
sneaky lil tank

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>>377463891
Can someone explain to me what the fuck a dating VN and a story about aliens invading earth and being fought off with mechs have to do with each other

I cannot understand how this is packaged in the same franchise.

>>377462127
I thought that was a zeus, with the big cone shaped shoulders. Then again, I don't know much, I only played mechwarrior 2 and 3 when I was younger.

>>377468140
Multiverse or alternate timeline shenanigans. The VN series is a spin off of a spin off of a spin off.

>>377468456
I still don't fucking get it. This shit is like making a Counter Strike Board Game and then shipping box-sets of CS:GO and CS: The Board Game. These things have nothing to do with each other.

>>377467027
is this mechs done right?
almost completely useless for warfare but still serves some purpose in its universe

>>377468686
>>377468456
It's like if you took the cast from It's Always Sunny and then threw them into a gritty, Walking-Dead-esque post-apocalyptic show about survival and drama without any of the comedy or sociopathy of the original series but they're still somehow the same characters.