Is Grand Theft Auto 3 really the 2nd best game of all times?

>>377429234
I'm having more problems with Far Cry 2 being on 1.

>>377429234
This is a stereotypical counter culture hipster list of course it's inaccurate

>>377429431
Why? It's the highest/AAA realisation of the survival-adventure FPS.

Also the note at the bottom says that some post-FC2 FPS were not considered. So you can consider FC2 to be a place-holder, unlike GTA3.

>>377429234
its not even the best gta or rockstar game

>>377429584
>stereotypical counter culture hipster list

>counter culture
>hipster
How on earth? Nearly everything is AAA or cult-classics. Not to mention all the oldfag PC and arcade choices. Maybe that's why your first instinct was to label it hipster then, that simply because there was so much older stuff (or the original game names) you didn't recognise, you assumed it must be purposefully obscure, when really it's just that you're too young to know those.

>>377429716
The 2D games are inferior simply by being a 2D version of the concept. And everything after III got progressively more bloated: VC's focus on narrative and real-estate, SA's RPG world, IV's sluggish realism, V being the SA to IV.

>>377429234
who made this, some hipster?

>>377429989
>not making an argument but rather calling me new and making assumptions about my knowledge.
You cannot put these games as "the best", maybe some for story but the advancements in the feeling of gameplay and level of detail make it to where most old games just can't compete objectively

>>377429234
Ah yes, the official best games of all time list. who could forget

>>377429234
that is one really really really huge pile of shit list

>>377429631
>Fire 10 shots, gun explodes
>MALARIAMALARIAMALARIA
>enemy checkpoints respawn
>nigger guards will chase you forever

>>377430378
Whereas III is basically all efforts directed towards the main missions, the apex of GTA. It's actually a perverted treat when you replay III and encounter some bad voice-acting. Not because that is something positive in itself, but just because you are relieved to see how comparatively good the gameplay is. Unlike sequels like IV where you might even have more fun watching the cutscenes at times than playing through its slow-motion pacing and 'realist' repetition.

>>377429234
>3. planetside 2
pffffffthahahaha

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>>377429431
Pretty much this. I can understand the historical pertinence of GTA 3 even if it's not my favorite one in the series (it's a bit of a Citizen Kane thing, certainly not my favorite film but most people who like cinema do have to own it some respect) but imho, Far Cry 2 is at best a conceptually great game wasted by awful writing and gunplay. The setting is great and I can see why it comes up every now and then whenever people discuss their favorite shooters but imho, it's not even the best Far Cry game.

But then again, the appreciation of art is a subjective thing, and if this bloke thinks Far Cry 2 gave him the strongest aesthetic experience in a videogame then who are to blame him.

COMIN' PRETTY HARD COS HE'S (Lips!) ON CRACK!

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>>377431495
T

T H E F T

D E T E R M I N A T I O N

>>377430598
>>not making an argument but rather calling me new and making assumptions about my knowledge.
I was correct to do so since your core argument hinges on the fact that newer games will be technically (although not always so, or noticeably) superior to these.

>the advancements in the feeling of gameplay and level of detail make it to where most old games just can't compete objectively
I agree with you that the latest technical improvements contribute most to how great a gameplay experience will be, since mechanics are mostly dependant on the technological power available (but also the design and efforts at implementation). However, the latest models are not always the best at a gameplay concept. To use an analogy, a top-of-the-line racing bicycle is still going to be faster than the earliest motorbike. Basically, we get more fun from a game when the developers completely maxed-out the technology they had available. Whereas the 'superior' latest games you have in mind are merely riding-off the technological advantage they have over the games in this list, and that misuse of potential makes them much less fun. To give an example, MGSV's engine makes the older iterations look incredibly primitive, yet the failure to provide a focused narrative and enough distinct missions has meant that the majority of fans found the older games more fun. That's why MGS2 is listed here instead of V.

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O MIO BABBINO CAROOO
MI PIACE É BÉLLOOOOO
BÉLLOOOOO

>>377431409
Art is at least partially objective. Nobody would ever say that Birdemic is better than The Godfather, and if someone DID, they'd be discredited forever. They would be completely unable to defend their position.

Just because you can find positive things about Farcry 2 does not mean FC2 is any good. So what if fire spreads realistically if the rest of the game is dogshit? Everyone in Birdemic enunciates pretty well but that doesn't mean Birdemic deserves an Oscar.

>>377429234
>planetary annihilation
>not total annihilation
fuck offfff

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>>377429234
>phantasmogoria
>in any list that isn't "Top X Worst"

is this a joke or just god-awful taste? i honestly can't tell

>>377430846
>>Fire 10 shots, gun explodes
>>MALARIAMALARIAMALARIA
>>guards will chase you forever
You should only have a problem with these if you have problems with the idea of scalability. e.g. when an in-game clock uses real-time seconds for in-game minutes, and real-time minutes for in-game hours. Basically these events that you complain about happen so regularly because they are representing a greater passage of time than you actually experience while playing. This is so the player doesn't have to invest real-time days to make insignificant progress, so that the game can have a more immersive logic (i.e. that it is largely-modelled on the real-experience, yet sped-up so you don't have to endure the boring tedious parts).

>enemy checkpoints respawn
This is almost the exact same issue, it is scaling down the idea that guard posts eventually get replenished, and that you won't meet all of them at the exact same time (some return after scouting, etc). Did you not play old games like Ninja Gaiden? Respawns are a long-established concept for representing larger forces being present in a game environment than can immediately be seen by the player.

>>377431958
Because Far Cry 2 has genuine qualities to it, while Birdemic is literally only enjoyable from an ironic standpoint. You can overlook the poor gunplay and the constantly respawning enemies to find some beautiful landscapes and some interesting character arcs and maybe even have some fun with the side-missions, which by itself might at the very least justify some strong investment in the game. Personally, I wouldn't say that itself is enough to call if the best vidya ever created, but who knows, maybe the guy really likes middle Africa and Hearts of Darkness.

>>377431845
>Blatantly disregarding that I specifically mentioned how some are better in terms of narrative, then using narrative against me. I also specifically chose to use the word "most"

>>377431409
>But then again, the appreciation of art is a subjective thing, and if this bloke thinks Far Cry 2 gave him the strongest aesthetic experience in a videogame then who are to blame him.
If it is subjective then that means the best games will be enjoyed most by the best gamers, and vice versa. Subjectivity is not a cop-out from the idea of establishing which games provide the highest-quality/fun experience. All subjectivity means is that people's opinions about how good things are will vary according to how good they are at appraising those very things. That's the basic concept of expertise, a prerequisite of civilisation. It's completely obvious within gaming on a psychology-level: you have the masses enjoying the most mediocre (which doesn't mean bad, you need to be skilled as all-hell in a competitive market to even provide a 5/10 experience) experiences, the physically-unhealthy and casuals enjoying what are essentially non-games (those that focus on meta-gaming such as puzzles, sports, narratives, cutscenes, etc) and healthy, hardcore people being the main market for cutting-edge games that eventually become a mainstream standard.

Subjectivity only means 'all games are equal' if you happen to think all human beings are equal. And if that were true, how would you manage to make a distinction between any of them at all? They would be an discernable mass. When people say stuff like 'different strokes for different folks' or 'to each their own' all that means is that discussions about establishing the quality of something should be dropped whenever it would be inappropriate (why lecture your grandmother or the girl in your physics class about gaming quality, for example), or left to experts.

>>377433469
Narrative was one of two things in mentioned, in regards to MGSV, which itself was just a single example of my point (narrative wouldn't have applied in other examples). And even in that context, I said 'focused narrative', not to pass judgement on the quality of the narrative, but to link it with my other point about the lack of enough distinct missions. These points combined, I was obviously implying that the lack of narrative also contributes to too much aimlessness and lack of events in MGSV.

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>>377433518
>it's a "only games I enjoy count as games" post
Are you seriously implying that narrative-oriented games are for casuals, even if they're generally dominated by a niche indie-tier audience? What's even a game, you fool?

>Dune 2 at 15
>neither Starcraft Brood War nor C&C Red Alert(1 or 2) anywhere on the list
Yeah, a game where you can only select one unit at a time is one of the best RTS of all time.

This list is made of fail and aids.

>>377434416
>narrative-oriented games
I was only talking about games that focus on narrative and neglect the interactive aspects. For example, most JRPGS are shallow strategy games that focus on narrative. If that's what you mean by narrative-oriented, I can continue. Otherwise, things like MGS are fine, if not exceptional, in that the narrative aspects are just as good as the others.

>Are you seriously implying that narrative-oriented games are for casuals, even if they're generally dominated by a niche indie-tier audience?
I explicitly mentioned two different groups that enjoy those, and indie-tiers do not necessarily belong to the casual group. To give an example, the Wii Sports games are for casuals but not indies. Cave Story (bad example since this isn't exactly a non-game, just a sort of amateurish tribute to old games) is for indies and not casuals. Minecraft seems to have been for both at one stage.

>What's even a game, you fool?
Vidya have been defined as machines that provide pleasure. Obviously you have to take pleasure in a strictly complex sense, to exclude basic pleasures such as foot massagers and the like.

P.S. posting someone who has recourse to 'transcendental' (as if something existing outside the world is not a contradictio in adjecto) explanations does the opposite of giving you some authority in theoretical disputes.

>>377435828
Read >>377431845