MAKE MCCREE GREAT AGAIN

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extra damage against flying units.

Murica!

>>377410591
literally anything that makes the pharmercy cancer less prevalent is good in my book

>>377410490
Buff Peacemaker damage from 70 to 75
5 sec cooldown on roll
8 sec cooldown on flashbang
Give him more movement speed when using ult

They tweaked his raw damage output but they need to give long range damage dropoff to Soldier 76. McCree isn't bad, but there's still no reason to use him when Soldier 76 is infinitely more versatile and covers most of his niche as well.

>>377411123
76 covers everyone, hes a broken piece of shit with no hard counters. I fucking saw this coming teh moment mccree was nerfed back then, I fucking knew it

>>377411427
Ya if anything Solider needs a nerf.

There is not a single situation where a team won't benefit from a Solider. He can solo DPS for an entire team.

>>377410591
Fucking retard redditor.
>>377410490
Look. Mccree is great already but if you want make him better against phamercy, just buff his effective range a little bit.

Mcfalloff is good.

>>377411526
oh no, a hero that rewards individual skill. we certainly cant have this in our mob-*COUGH* fps.

>>377410490

undo all his nerfs

>>377411648
Look anon I'm not interested in engaging with you on the classification of the genre of Overwatch.

I'm just saying in the game they have created it seems unwise to have a character with no hard counters and who does the role of his class better than every other character with no consequences.

>>377411648
Soldier is stupid because you can be shit and still do well as him. Just shoot a helix rocket then spray wildly. Soldiers with good aim is rare as fuck, I consistently see Soldiers with gold weapons that have like 20% or less accuracy. It doesn't even matter since his entire design is so forgiving.

-Extend his fall-off range back to where it was pre-nerf
-Lower his ridiculously long cooldowns
-Make his m2 not completely useless
-Completely rework his ult, right now pressing q is basically throwing the teamfight.

Compared to other DPS choices, McCree has no mobility, no self-sustain and offers nothing to a team except his damage. If his damage output isn't noticeably higher than more flexible DPS choices, there is literally no reason to pick him.

>>377411536
>Fucking retard redditor.
What did he mean by this?

>>377411815
>I'm just saying in the game they have created it seems unwise to have a character with no hard counters
Roadhog doesnt have any hard counters either
>>377412074
>Soldier is stupid because you can be shit and still do well as him.
Same as Roadhog just hook and instakill

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>pre-nerf mccree
yeah because wanting a sniper who also excels at close range is a good idea

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>>377412170
>-Make his m2 not completely useless

t. platgod

>>377412258
Roadhog has noticible weaknesses, such as his giant weight, speed, his small ammo counter and his inability to deal with people far away from him

He's a damage sponge, thats it.

>>377412258
Nah Roadhog is no big deal if your team is together. Most Hogs start backing up at 300 health to go heal because they're idiots. Then you either chase him down or wait for him to come back.

Rinse and repeat.

>>377412258
People say range is Roadhogs hard counter but that's not true in a game where every map is filled with cramped spaces and chokes. Idiots want to pretend there's no reason Roadhog was a 100% pick in pro tournament play just before his most recent nerf.

I get that they wanted to design a tank with offensive focus rather than defensive for variety's sake but the end product is retarded and a better DPS pick than the DPS heroes.

>>377412258
enemy roadhogs are just free ult meter buddy boi

>>377412193
There's a post exactly like that on reddit, and no, being OP against flying heroes is retarded

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>>377412594
>There's a post exactly like that on reddit
what are you doing on reddit? go back there

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>>377412170
>I can't kill tracer with one headshot/ a 200 HP hero with two bullets the post.

Are you stuck in Gold?

>>377412421
>Roadhog has noticible weaknesses, such as his giant weight, speed
Thats true but I was talking about Roadhog having no hardcounters.
>his small ammo counter
That doesnt matter since he insta kills or 2 shots everything
>his inability to deal with people far away from him
Hook is 20 meters thats a pretty long distance

>>377412490
I know Roadhog has weaknesses but he doesnt have a hardcounter.

>>377412590
I know but name a hero that hardcounters him

>>377412702
>He's playing against Tracers that let themselves get flashbanged.

No, are you?

>>>377412768
I know but name a hero that hardcounters him
Symmetra who runs around him, lucio speed boost optional. Everybody panics when you have a symmetra deleting your body away

>>377412826
>Implying

You mean you can't shoot a tracer unless she's flashbanged? Wew

>>377412347

>ranks above gold meaning anything if you don't play with a premade

>>377412768
Zen Solider duo
A smart Rein
Any Ana worth her salt

The only thing Solider has to stop him funnily enough is a Roadhog catching him unaware and away from the team.

>>377412768
Road has no hardcounter however focus fire deletes him quickly, another roadhog can fuck him up as well

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>>377412904
A single headshot doesn't do enough damage to kill a Tracer without the extra damage from the flashbang.

Quit being a doughnut.

>>377410490
if you can actually aim he is still easily top 2 dps in the game

>>377412934
>abloo abloo everyone better than me just got lucky

The mentality of every "I'm a godtier player stuck in elo hell" shitter.

Only plebs use Blackwatch McCree over his USA skin

>>377412768
he doesn't have a hardcounter for 1v1, i agree. but that doesn't mean he doesn't have weaknesses. once you see that the enemy has picked roadhog, it's not hard to team up against him.

>dat hitbox
>dat speed
>dat ability baiting

go play cs:go if this is too frustrating for you to deal with.

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>>377413050
>Enemy tracer is able to flank your entire team with full HP

Rly maeks me think

Give him Mei's ICE wall ability

>>377413141
more like edgewatch mccree
just like the genji one too

>>377413141
I use the $crooge skin, whatcha gonna do about it big boy?

>>377413205
In defense of Blackwatch Genji its not like he has a lot great options to pick from.

People still play this?

>>377410490
make him the man with the golden gun

>>377410490

Remove screenshake when firing and fix the double shot glitch which I assume is netcode related.

>>377413262
Scrooge is also top tier but I never see people wear it
Even during winter wonderland

>>377413372
scrooge is hilarious to me. i loved the lobby screen during the winter event when he's just peeking into the window like a little dickens.

>GAMF
>greedy as a motherfucker

>>377413081
If you can actually aim, you'll still be able to do just as much, if not more, damage as 76 as well as being able to contribute more to your team in the form of healing.

There is literally no reason to pick McCree except for epeen reasons.

>>377413372
The revolver is too tier and the gauntlet is ca$h. Too bad i've only seen like two scrooges in about 300 comp matches

Literally just make his damage falloff further than 2 feet in front of him; I'm not saying bring back McSniper but holy fuck it feels so shit to engage as it is atm.

>>377412896
>Symmetra who runs around him, lucio speed boost optional. Everybody panics when you have a symmetra deleting your body away
First sym needs to connect her beam and any Roadhog with half a brain wouldve hooked and insta killed her. If hook is on cooldown he can still insta kill or 2 shot her.

>>377412935
>Zen Solider duo
Thats 2 heroes. A hardcounter is a hero that can engage Roadhog alone and almost always come out on top.
>A smart Rein
No, Roadhog can hook 2 shot him and outheal Reins shit damage.
>Any Ana worth her salt
Ana needs to hit 9-10 shots on Roadhog to kill him and within that time Roadhog can easily hook and insta kill her.

>>377412973
>Another roadhog can fuck him up as well
Yeah just play Roadhog to counter him, what if the other Roadhog is better or has a better team?

His kit needs a rework honestly.

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>>377412768
>I know but name a hero that hardcounters him
Mei. Technically speaking, she counters everybody.

I really hate this hardcounter game design, its so shitty.

>>377413502
I find easier to kill with Mccree than Spammer:76. Two to three shots and the target is dead, four to five if its a tank. That's all you need, and the burst is harder to heal imo.

>>377413463
It's 'Greedy Ass Mother Fucker' you retard.

>>377413561
When it comes to road vs road you don't need aim at all, its all about who baits/hooks first or who clicks m2 before hooking first. Hog is so fucking fat, you can't miss even with shit aim.

>>377410490
not sure why people are complaning, he is flanker stopper and does just fine and much more.

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Make his grenade timedown reset after he kills an enemy

Just like genji dash


There, fixed.

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>>377413657
Tfw i thought it meant "Grumpy ass motherfucker"

McCree's problem is he doesn't have the movement speed or damage output to thrive in the Tank or Dive meta, he's worthless. You basically have to be pinpoint accurate with your headshots to even compete with 76's damage.

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There was literally no reason to nerf him post launch.

Tanks were a fucking problem and mccree checked them so hard.
>Nerf McCree in to uselessness
>Tank dominate meta.
Fuck reddit for complaining about a character literally two weeks into a game.

>>377413793
no anon only gengu is allowed to have owerpowered moves on assist kill reset cool down, gengu is blizzard's lightning after all.

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>>377413608
>tfw you counter-snipe a widow or a hanzo with Mei

Make it High Noon.

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MAKE THE HIGH NOON BE ABLE TO PIERCE SHIELDS

>>377410490
desu if you are not gm your opinion on this game is irrelevant, guessing that removes at least 98% of the thread.

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>>377413608
>>377413924
>Predicting a Tracer so she Blinks her face directly onto an Icicle

>>377413869
>no reason to be nerfed

If McCree could still shit out 840 damage FtH combos what use is Reaper?

>>377413106
then kindly explain to me how you're supposed to carry your team if you're skilled enough, faggot
you can't do that in OW, and that's why it's a poor man's FPS

>>377413639
Soldier's DPS (with the upcoming nerf): 166
McCree's DPS: 140

Add to that Soldier's helix is an easy to hit instant 120 damage and it's clear that Soldier is better at dealing both burst damage AND sustained damage.

>>377412768
>doesnt have a hard counter
who is ana

>>377413176
>go play cs:go if this is too frustrating for you to deal with.
Where did you get that thought from? The reason I brought up Roadhog was because people were complaining about soldier having no hardcounters

>>377413608
Mei doesnt do that well against Hog. If she isnt in m1 distance she can't do shit and if she is within m1 distance she gets insta killed.

>>377414123
Ana needs to hit 9-10 shots on Roadhog to kill him and within that time Roadhog can easily hook and insta kill her

>>377413869
>Tank dominate meta.
only because of ana

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>>377413608
Mei shouldn't exist.

>>377414057
I don't know, but McCree is designed to be tje best duelist in the game. If you face him 1v1. You're supposed to die, that's his character. That situation also includes tanks.
Overwatch is just a shitty game and Blizzard has no idea what the fuck they're doing.

>>377411648

Soldier doesn't reward individual skill, he's easy as fuck to use

>>377410490
Revert him to how he was at launch and then put a 5 second cooldown on fan the hammer.

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>>377414236
>omega icicles

>>377414086
>>377414086

Agreed, any FPS who can boast a decent skillcap always allowed pubstomping.
Be it Quake, UT, CS or any lesser known FPS (such as UrT or NS), if you vastly outskilled the enemy team you could always make a big difference by yourself.

>>377414105
They need to find a medium between the two, Soldier 76 and McCree are both competing for the same "mid range DPS" role. And before Soldier got buffed McCree shit on him in every situation because his utility wasn't worth his dogshit damage output. Now that Soldier outdamages McCree on top of having more utility there's no reason to play McCree.

>>377414086
That's where you're wrong. You can carry pretty effectively with Soldier, Mcree, even Tracer. Try playing one of them instead of picking Rein or Mercy and complaining all the time.

>>377412291
>a sniper who also excels at close range
That isn't stopping the Gook archer with his 450 damage exploding arrow.

>>377413608
My only gripe with mei is her godawful weapon design. that thing looks like a fucking dinky toy

>>377414194
what i'm saying is that if you want good 1v1, then go play a game based in individual skill. you and i both agree that roadhog doesn't have a single hardcounter. and that's fine, it doesn't break the game. he's not necessarily a problem unless you're a spastic who can't communicate with his team. i'm sorry you keep getting picked by roadhog. this pick/counterpick is such an odd hill to die on, as i've seen many overwatch critics do.

>>377414194
>Ana needs to hit 9-10 shots on Roadhog to kill him and within that time Roadhog can easily hook and insta kill her
the sleep dart/nade makes the roadhog a free kill for your team 8/10, all the ana has to do is tell her team where is sleeping and gang bang him.

>>377414384
This.

>sneak up on Hanzo
>SIMPLE GEOMETRY
>dead instantly

Great design Blizzard, a year into the game they haven't changed it even when they've admitted that's not how they intended the skill to be used.

>>377414454
>Roadhog
>not a single hard counter

What is Soldier 76.

>>377412934
I played solo from gold hell to plat. You just gotta play well and communicate with your randos.

>>377414346
the slow as a turtle TTK along with the huge ass hitboxes don't let you pubstomp, it's impossible
the only character with rampage potential was pre-nerf Widow when the game got released
now individual skill doesn't do much

>>377414548
i see soldier get picked off by hog way more often than the other way around. maybe it's confirmation bias. i'm not married to either hero, fwiw.

>>377414315
Mcrees with perfect aim are more powerfull than soldier.

>inb4 but his ulty

Talking about raw damage

>>377414548
Ehhh depends on who catches the other unaware.

I've dummied tons of Soliders as Hog because they try to solo cap by flanking.

>>377414479
>they've admitted that's not how they intended the skill to be used.
What were they thinking was going to happen?
Was there not a single tester who tried floorshots?

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>there are people still bitching about roadhog to this day

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>>377414479
>how they intended the skill to be used.
Some of the best things in life are discovered by accident.

>>377414315
Soldier 76 never needed a buff. He was completely fine before, but the community just mindlessly parroted the opinions of pro players with 1000 times the mechanical ability they could ever hope to have.

If you can consistently land double taps and are playing on a team where you can guarantee that your healer isn't some half-retarded Mercy main, then yeah, there was no reason to take 76 over McCree.

But for 99% of the population that was completely untrue, and they were just throwing games with their shitty 30% accuracy McCrees.

>>377414639
Maybe it's because I play Roadhog as well, but I never have any problems dealing with him as 76. It's basically a free kill for me if they don't have a Reinhardt. 76 shits out so much damage, even Roadhog healing will not save him at mid range. If you know Roadhog's hook range, and are aware of where he is, there is no reason you should be hooked. Especially after the LOS check implemented.

>>377414643
Good luck finding McCree's with 100% crit accuracy to compete with Soldier's DPS, not to mention Soldier has more range.

>>377414637
So you're telling me that one master tier player, let's not even go there. Let's not delude ourselves that any of you faggots are masters potential; that one 3500 player in a team with 2600 players against a full team of 2600 players wouldn't be able to push his team to victory?

>>377414703
maybe scattershot should damage hanzo

i'm also in favor of dva getting damaged by her ult. and junk getting damaged by his mine. i wish they'd be more consistent with that shit.

>>377413869
>Able to face melt literally every other character in the game if you were unlucky enough to get in flashbang range
>Not a problem

>>377414782
He did. There was fundamentally no reason to pick 76 over McCree. 76 did a whopping 5 more total damage than McCree, all while needing to maintain his spread.

>>377414841
Not if the other team is coordinated no.

>>377410490
>remove fan
>lower the roll's cooldown a bit
>make the roll 8 directional instead of 4
>High Noon's deals double damage to / locks on faster on the nearest target to the cursor

>>377414946
If your aim is as bad as your reading comprehension, I'm gonna guess you're one of those 30% accuracy McCrees that kept shitting up my games back in the day.

>if you hold left click your bullet can pierce more than 1 player per shot

Is this enough?

>>377414454
I usually don't get picked by Roadhog. When I play this game most of the time its with friends on quickplay and on ranked I play with plats who aren't that good.

>>377414469
>the sleep dart/nade makes the roadhog a free kill for your team
A hardcounter is a hero that can engage Roadhog alone and almost always come out on top. You just said that Ana needs her team to kill him which doesnt make her a hardcounter.

>>377414548
Soldier 76 gets hooked and insta killed.

>>377414782
>tfw sometimes i can't land my shots, like full clips that go nowhere
>Still achieve +54% accuracy

How the fuck do you get less than 45% with mccree jesus

>>377414841
he'd make the difference if his team was willing to cooperate and act smart despite their inferior ranking
but put him in a game where both teams are fucking retarded and every single player is playing by himself, he definitely won't do much

take any real skill based FPS and no matter how bad your team can be nothing stops you from stomping the enemy if you're able to

>>377415212
>I play this game most of the time its with friends on quickplay and on ranked I play with plats who aren't that good.
the conversation is literally over desu

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>>377415212
This autist i swear, who complains about road anymore, its a team based game, you can easily overwhelm that fat fuck with zeny/ana + someone else or another roadhoh alone, jeez.

>>377414887
Stay out of his short range. Roadhog countered him.

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>>377413924
>headshot Phara out of the air

>>377415212
>Playing soldier in hook range

Hello, silver players!

>>377411427
>>377411526
He's basically the TF2 Soldier of Overwatch.

The Soldier is mostly just a "Mario" in terms of no real weaknesses but lacking the outstanding raw power of any real niche; burst damage output isn't as great or versatile as demoman, without rocket jumping mobility isn't on par with scout and will damage and force himself to reload in the process, can't tank or fight at point blank slugfests on the level of the Heavy, and is limited to close-to-mid range.

On the other side of things, Soldier 76's assault rifle is on par with snipers in terms of range and reloads quickly, has a decent burst damage option with the helix rockets, while his mobility option isn't as retard-proof as Genji's deflect-dash or Tracer/Sombra's warp, it also has no significant cooldown and really no downside since he can synergize with anything really well. He can also self-heal which means he can't get scared off as easily as someone like Pharah, who is for whatever reason the latest character people complain about, but without Mercy in tow can't stay in the fray for too long. Even being chipped by a barrage of shotgun pellets from far away will wear her down.

OW has this issue of where characters that highly versatile trivialize the presence of other characters in the same "category."

The other thing exacerbating this issue is that in a game that's very heavily dependent on hard counters, Soldier 76's slightly-above-middle-of-the-line status basically means he has nothing going against him besides being out-tanked or out-damaged.

It doesn't matter how good you are. You could be fucking Daisuke Jigen when playing as McCree, but you would in all likelihood be even more effective as Soldier 76.

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>>377413976
op here, top 500 all 4 seasons so far senpai

is d.va in any of the overwatch comics?

>>377415746
Any tips? I keep reaching master and dropping to diamond every time.

>>377414754
He's so strong he makes another character irrelevant by merely existing. That's a problem with game design, not player skill.

>>377415318
>the conversation is literally over desu
Whatever, but what I said is still true.
Maybe not in your eyes because I am not a hardcore Overwatch player like you but that doesnt bother me.

>>377415560
No shit? If you read my previous posts you would have seen that I agreed to that you autist.

>>377415639
If you want to get the kill on roadhog you'll have to engage him within 20 meters or he will just ignore you and kill something else.

>>377415738
I wish Pharah was like the Soldier. It took ages for me to get used to her.

>>377412347
I have never seen anyone vehemently push for triple tank at plat. Everyone freaks out if it's not 2-2-2

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healsluts unite!

>>377415987
>no ana

you suck

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>>377415738
JIGEN SKIN FOR MCCREE WHEN

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>>377415918
>I wish Pharah was like the Soldier.
I'm glad she isn't. She should be more closer to her tribes or UT ancestry. her rocket jumps could do less damage to herself and jump further in the air. Now I have to jumpjet rocket jump at the same time to hit the map's ceiling

>>377415987
This triggers me, healsluts are acceptable in MMORPGS but on a fps they are a fucking normie meme.

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>>377415856
just main roadhog lmao
get good with the hooks and you can carry a team of golds to GM
pic related

>>377416145
>Ana/Mccree main
Welp. Thanks, i guess.

>>377416052
she is boring.

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>>377414841
It depends on the team comp.
You can't carry a bunch of fucking idiots if the other team is semi-competent.
You just have to hope that their team has an equal amount of fuckheads who refuse to switch character.

>>377416227
>ana less boring than mercy
legit case of insanity

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>>377416212
>tfw I suck at new roadhog

>>377415918
She was closer to the Soldier in terms of how her rockets functioned way back in the wild west days of OW in terms of what her rockets could do, back when McCree was also really dangerous.

>>377415571
>Get within roll range
>Flashbang
>McCree wins every time

It's not like you'll know McCree's coming every time either. It's an extremely easy and mindless combo that let you win every engagement if you within a certain range of your target. A lot of people complain about Roadhog for the same reasons.

>>377416212
i mean Ana is easily the most broken hero in the game still after all her nerfs.

sadly by nature any support is dependant on their team, which makes you not able to climb even if youre epic

time to get some 1-taps with mccree then desu

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>>377416281
>tfw i mained road when he had the old hook
>+60 kills per match was normal to me

Now they kinda land in front of you all the time, will they land on the ground or mid-air? You will never know

>>377414346
That's a little hard when no one on your team will be a fucking healer. I don't care how "gud" you are, no one is capable of 1v6ing the entire game.

>>377416367
>i mean Ana is easily the most broken hero in the game still after all her nerfs.
she's also responsible for the 3 tank meta nightmare, and is sole responsible for the enabling reaper to have his beyblade meta.
>inb4 get with the times nerd its now dive meta

>>377416414
No one's saying you have to 1v6 to carry your team. I'm not great at fps games at all, but I climbed from 1800 to 3300 by playing Soldier/Mcree and just waiting for my team to go full retard and go in and use that opportunity to kill important targets and control the flow of the game.

>>377412768
Who is Reaper

>>377416432
it's honestly fucking insane to think about the fact that ana used to be way more OP than she is now, and she is STILL shaping whatever cancer fucking meta dominates the game

blizzard seriously needs to do something about her ludicrous healing

Hold down L1 after a roll to break into a sprint. The sprint isn't as fast as 76's but McCree can fire and fan his Peacemaker while sprinting - though he must stop sprinting to reload or throw a flashbang. McCree can jump further and move into flanking position more easily with this ability, but a roll must be sacrificed to perform a sprint.

>>377416664
Hook bait.

>>377416801
>Hold down L1
>L1
console cuck detected, opinion discarded.

>>377416664
A shittier version of Roadhog with less health, range, damage, healing.
Seriously, Reaper needs to get in close range without getting hooked and then needs 4 good shots to kill a Roadhog. While Roadhog only needs to land his hook for an insta kill, even if he misses it he can still 1 shot or 2 shot Reaper.

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>>377414384
>playing Orisa
>making my way to the point
>suddenly I'm dead
>killcam shows Hanzo firing a split shot at my feet
>all the shards magnetically fly into my robo-udders
>I got one shot
>as a fucking TANK

do every one of those fucking arrowheads do full damage?

>>377417304
each scatter does 75 damage
there are 6 scatters
6x75 = 450 = Orisa status: cuckolded

>>377417425
If they buffed each scatter to normal arrow damage each but made it so you can only get hit by one then it'd be a reasonable change that would make the ability more useful without being OP.

>>377416078
Sorry, can't have speed in this game, anon.

>>377410490
He will build THAT WALL and Sombra will pay for the wall!

>Mercy might get Pharah nerfed
>I love Pharah

This shit makes me sad, Pharah without Mercy at high ranks where I am actually takes some legitimate skill. Mercy takes far less. Though I'm just predicting that this COULD happen and I might be wrong. Maybe they'll change Mercy instead.

Either way a change to Pharah will make her incredibly hard to play at my rank.

>>377420341
valkia btfo

>>377416394
It's retarded since they "land in front of you" but if you hook somebody while jumping, dropping, out of the air, or Pharah you have to magically align yourself exactly parallel to the ground and then hope the game doesn't fuck up your aim

>>377410490

Lower RoF
Increase damage
Decrease falloff

Differentiate him from soldier

>>377410490
Revert him to release status

>>377420341
>tfw all the pharah mains will drop to the bronze bracket they belong after scamming themselves to diamond/master with a cheese character

>>377420341

Only thing that needs to be changed is her splash damage.

>>377410490
not stunning and fanning the hammer every kill and actually learning to fucking aim

>>377410490
make him prepatch, shit was glorious.
I want to headshot with my secondary.

>>377420623
>lower rof
>make his DPS even fucking worse
Fuck you nigga

>>377420623
>140 damage every second
>280 damage crits
This would be absolutely retarded

The lack of balance in Overwatch is one of the main reasons I can never fucking stick with it. Characters just skyrocket or plummet in the meta once a month or so and the overall design flaws are never fixed. McCree's an excellent tank melter but incidentally can kill four players within the span of two or so seconds with the flash fan roll fan combo. So they nerf his fan the hammer to a level where its essentially useless in all respects, at least if the player in control has decent or better aim. Winston stacks are too good due to his bubble so they make his shield cooldown obscene and then almost immediately after remove stacking. DVa's too strong, neef her HP. Okay now rebuff it. Symmetra never gets picked. Buff her. Now nerf her. Nerf Torb. Buff Torb. Etc.

Its fucking stupid and shows a total lack of insight on behalf of the devs. I know we live in a post-ASSFAGGOTS world where reactionary nerfing and buffing is commonplace but i've played casual fucking Cawadoody shooters with better balancing attempts than this.

>>377421053
They need to just revert her last changes, shit splash damage but rockets can bounce people around again. It's fucking stupid to nerf Pharah because Pharah+Mercy is strong, it's a fucking two character combo. Nerf Reinhardt and Bastion while you're at it because Rein+Bastion is a good combo.

>>377421053
>>377423062

They don't need to do anything to Pharah at all, she isn't over powered unless she has a Mercy.

>>377420958
Pharah takes skill to play in master and grandmaster.

I mean this shit doesn't bother me because I can rise back up with any character I set my mind on but Pharah is fun as fuck and I don't want them to make her unviable.

>think Blizzard might be finally learning how to balance with Roadhog and Ana changes
>then they go and rework Lucio, a character that was already a near 100% pick rate because of his very unique kit, and they make him even better

This company is legitimately retarded.

>>377410490
remove fall off damage for distance. Give him back the damage he had for fan the hammer. Basically revert him to how he was at the launch of overwatch. He is fucking useless outside his ult.

>>377410490
Nerf eveything around him

>>377423374
>They don't need to do anything to Pharah at all, she isn't over powered unless she has a Mercy.

I agree, but the amount of Bronze cry babies might influence them enough. D.Va + Reinhardt is a much more fucking obnoxious combo than Pharah + Mercy.

>>377422617

It's in the best place for balance then it's ever been, each of those changes you talked about were some of the better changes in the game. Are one of those below plat fucks who act like they know everything about the game because that's what you read?

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>>377423396
Lucio's better in skilled hands but he's harder to use. He's no longer the absolute best, second behind either Mercy or Ana depending on the skill level.

>>377423491

One problem is that everyone but the Koreans rather whine about shit than to actually find a solution.

From what I've read there are enough people who became competent with McCree and D.Va in Korea that makes playing Pharah a living hell.

>>377423491
>complain about bronze
>while also complaining about a tank that's garbage beyond silver

>>377423654

>Complaining about a tank that's garbage beyond silver

Yo the koreans would like to talk to you and about how much you don't actually know.

>>377423654
>D.Va
>garbage

LOL

>>377423732
Koreans main her because of nationalism, it doesn't mean she's actually better than other tanks.

>>377423824
You don't actually believe this do you?

>>377423824

>She's in one of the highest tiers in professional play, espicially among Koreans

>Hurrr she's bad because I'm bad

Lol no

https://www.overbuff.com/blog/2017-05-12-overwatch-hero-tier-list-and-meta-report-the-real-sombras-of-south-korea

half cooldown on roll if you have full ammo already

>>377423513
I genuinely don't think you understand what balance means. Balance does not mean having multiple characters with abysmal pickrates. Balance does not mean introducing changes for the sake of something you then immediately change. Balance does not mean kneejerk reactions to a few forum posts made minutes after your current set just of changes just went live. None of this echoes a competent cycle of learning from mistakes or even attempting to discover if something was truly a mistake in the first place. Do you not remember WoW arenas and their efforts to make that an e-sport, swiftly followed by no one caring since their balance was so out of whack? Do you not remember DOTA2 and League of Legends nerfs that went from a character being too good to completely useless? Hearthstone? Heroes of the Storm?

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>>377420341
Mercy got a barely related buff to how her ultimate worked that increased how often she was used when Lucio and Ana are still ubiquitous.

With Mercy comes Pharah and for whatever reason people are finding their combo devastating in a world where S76 and Ana are constantly in play while in terms of direct combat neither Pharah or Mercy have been tweaked very much. It's kind of hilarious that this thing that was basically a Day 0 thing since their gameplay previews had the two together is still something we're struggling with.

But if all the whining ruins Pharah for no reason I'll be pissed. She's the simplest offense hero with zero pretenses since she just shoots rockets and flies, and that's a pure thing in a game with so many clusterfuck kits.

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This is how it should be
>Close range: Reaper
>Medium range: 76
>Long range: McCree
Remove 76's ability to headshot and tweak his spread/damage to fit

High noon:
Dying mid activation costs nothing like every other hero
Give him significant damage resistance
Fires all bullets instantly on left click

Flashbang:
Stun timer does not start until player is on the ground

Combat roll:
Goes slightly further, lower cooldown

Oh yeah and FIX THIS BULLSHIT

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>>377424007
>professional
Who gives a shit? People playing competitive don't have the benefit of it being a full-time job complete with professional trainers, coaches, and day-long training sessions.

>>377410490
Mccree is fine, 76 is just too good

>>377424148
It doesn't make sense.

Reinhardt is nearly on every team, just stand behind the damn shield and shoot Mercy first. That or you know, PICK WIDOWMAKER. You know, Pharah's hard counter? Pick D.Va and use broken as DM to eat all of Pharah's rockets.

>>377424181

>Prove you wrong
>Hurr that doesn't count

Lol okay I think we're done here.

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>>377413608
>Mei
Whew, thanks for reminding me why I avoided this game. That broken fat piece of shit gives freeze characters a bad name.

>>377424181
>Who gives a shit

Blizzard.

>>377424291
>just stand behind the damn shield

See, that's an obvious step one, but you'd be surprised how often people are incapable of doing that.

>>377424339
Yes because the guys playing a Rein+D.Va combo online are totally l33t Korean pros.

No, you're garbage and D.Va is "Silver: The Tank." Pro usage is irrelevant when the subject is online competitive usage.

>>377424148
The problem with Pharmercy is, that it has very few decent counters.
Soldier and Widow counter them, but Widow good luck finding a good Widow. Other than that, only a really good Winston or just your regular Streetpig can do something against them, but Pig only if they are stupid enough to get into hook range.

>>377424434
Blizzard balances their game around pro usage you fucking retard. That is why Bastion and Symmetra got reworks in the first place.

>>377412347
We're not in season 3 anymore reddit

>>377424358
>broken
BOI

>>377424107

Do you realize that having characters makes for more variables and makes it incredibly hard to impossible to balance completely? Who are you to talk? Do you really think you could balance the game to perfection? I doubt it. Stop pretending balance is that easy.

Even old games had balance problems and they didn't have to worry about different types of classes that is a format so popular now. I'm not going to defend League because I think Riot are a bunch of idiots and I agree with you there. But DOTA is pretty amazing for balance considering how much there is to balance and Overwatch is finally finding stable place.

Balancing games like these takes time. You're not the arbiter of balance.

>>377424683
Nobody gives a shit about fucking balance, the idiot said that Rein and D.Va were an annoying combo in the game and I pointed out that he's a fucking idiot because she's easily countered in higher skill levels. Balance is not the subject, pro usage is not the subject, you're moving the goalposts so badly that you're building a brand new fucking stadium on the other side of the city so you can put the goalposts there.

>>377424434

She works in solo q as well when people are skilled enough to use her like the Koreans which also proves you wrong but you use "nationality" as your excuse to not be wrong.

The Korean and Pro scene makes her work but you'll still find a reason to try to not be wrong and it's pretty pathetic.

>>377424905

>Easily countered at higher levels

About as easy as if someone who doesn't play Genji is countered. You don't have many people dedicated to their D.Va play in NA or EU like you do Genji and others.

When she is actually figured out by people however then you're completely wrong.

>>377424996
You know there are people in top 500 who are Bastion and Torbjorn mains? Are you going to argue that Bastion and Torbjorn are super awesome amazing characters too? Or are you going to clue in to the fact that there's a difference between character ability and player skill and that sufficient amounts of the latter can hide flaws in the former?

>>377424792
Balance is immensely difficult. You're not just balancing weapons, spawn points or jump height/map gravity anymore. You're trying to balance a massive number of things at a speed most people would find obscene if you were to truly look at it actively happening. The problem, as I pointed out, is that the changes I mentioned are usually massive to the point of being make or break. Reduce a character's damage by 15 points after a full second of auto fire? That's being smart. Giving Soldier 25/50 less damage per mag? That's being smart. Making an ability cooldown five full seconds longer or shorter, adding or removing hundreds of hitpoints seemingly on a whim? That's fucking silly. I fully agree with their nerfs when they seem logical and like they were tested but some of the ones you see are obscene 90° turns. Blizzard has a long history of making massive changes, not gradual tweaks.

>>377425289

Difference being that Bastion and Torb are not being used in professional play while D.Va is.

Though that doesn't count huh? Keep being delusional.

>>377425476
>an extremely small sample size of a small number of the same people who have access to training and resources that the average player does not somehow matters more in the context of average online play than average online play does

>>377425413

I agree with you there, though I think the Overwatch team is the smartest of the Blizzard balance teams. They've been slowing down lately like how they didn't destroy Ana with huge nerfs but made her less oppressive with smaller nerfs.

Lucio is an recent exception but I think they at least made him more fun and able to be tuned unlike before.

>>377425687
>You should balance for the average shitter, not the top tier players
Hello, yes, is this the nu-/v/?

>>377425758
>smartest balance team

Lmao yeah no

Remember how every single hero in the defense category has been unviable garbage since the release of the game and they didnt even attempt to touch those?

Lets look at the defense category which is: Mei, widowmaker,Hanzo, tjorborn and junkrat

You literally get flammed in competitive if you dare to pick ANY of those

Also they literally see zero usage in tournaments

Overwatch is terribly balanced

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>>377424151
>Remove 76's ability to headshot and tweak his spread/damage to fit
You are worse at balancing this game than Blizzard.

>>377426103

Every actual refute you tell that guy he pretends it doesn't exist.

In otherwords, yes it's nu-/v/

>>377426147
>Remember how every single hero in the defense category has been unviable garbage since the release of the game and they didnt even attempt to touch those?
Remember when Widowmaker did insane damage even on bodyshots, and the game basically boiled down to which team picked Widow, and then which team could support their Winston better?
Of course not, because you just started playing this shitheap game only a few months ago.

>>377426147

You get flamed in competitive for anything to be fair.

>>377426103
see >>377424181
The average shitters are the ones playing D.Va online. The top tier players (unless you're braindead and include comp when it comes to actual in-game play) don't.

>>377426103

Nah.

The game should be balanced around 99% of the population.

Overwatch is basically a party game anyways.

>>377426178
>lets just keep swapping 76 and mccree out of the meta forever and ever
>t. blizzard

>>377426350
Yes now that you say it i do remember, and i will admit i was wrong with widow then.
They also removed her animation cancel scope thing which was pretty stupid.
But that change was right after release if i remember correctly and they have left her in a shitty state since then.

But i was more generally speaking about that whole category and right now all of them are dumpster tier

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>DURRRRHUHUHUHUH SOLDIER TAKE NO SKILL!!!!!!!!
>same person attempts to play soldier and misses every shot in the mag and the helix rocket

Soldier does take skill. Maybe not as much as Mcree since you have to make shots count when you play him, but if you miss every shot and die 24/7 while playing as soldier, guess what, you have no skill.

>>377426709

Soldier is the easiest class to play in the entire game.

>>377426709

Tracking takes skill but once you hit master it's easier to play soldier 76 than any other character because everyone has an idea of how to aim at least somewhat. Soldier has a heal and high mobility on top of that.

I think you mean tracking takes skill like the lightning gun in Quake or Tracer in general, rather than 76 himself.

>>377426815
Nah he actually requires mechanical skill to really shine which is rare in overwatch

I have seen the difference a soldier with strong mechanical skill and a soldier with shit mechanical skill makes

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>>377426709
>Maybe not as much as Mcree since you have to make shots count when you play him
That's the problem though, he really is just McCree on easy mode. 76 is what I'd play when I had a bad day on McCree.

>>377426517
Blizzard is retarded, because initially McCree was designed as a hero that could shut down mobile flanking heroes, such as Genji or Tracer.
Fan the Hammer did so much damage, however, that you could just melt tank heroes that had 400-500 HP.
Then the developers nerfed Fan the Hammer's damage and he became shit vs. Soldier, so they buffed his Peacemaker's regular shot damage so he became good, and then buffed soldier. They obviously lost sight of what McCree was designed to do, due to scope creep, or basically"fuck it, let's just make this character good at shooting".
What they need to do, is make him have his own niche again as a hero that shuts down mobile threats. This would probably mean reworking Flashbang, Combat Roll, and Fan the Hammer, or even giving him different skills. But as it stands, McCree is basically the hero with a nice gun but is horrible at his (supposed) job.

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>>377426709
>soldier 76
>skill

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>>377424613
You're right, but at the same time I feel like they're in a spot where they can be soft-countered reliably.

Even without real dropoff, you look at how people play Pharah at all levels and there's a lot of minimizing profile and cornering/dropping behind cover as they fire rockets to soften up tanks/shields.

But at that range, anybody else is mobile enough and the splash is small enough that the rockets aren't a big threat.

If they overextend into your range, you should be fine to pick or scare them off.

They're most threatening when they're swooping around as an aerial vanguard of a push, but so much of the game is dependent on coordination, it's not so much they're a huge threat, as much as they're in their element with the rest of the team bringing up the rear and keeping heat off them.

>>377427014

Anyone else think that old fan the hammer was so fucking fun? I understand why it's gone but damn was it satisfying just like hook 1.0

>>377427014
>Fan the Hammer did so much damage, however, that you could just melt tank heroes that had 400-500 HP.

>hero designed to win 1on1 situations, wins 1on1 situations
>casual playerbase: "waaaah my waifu/husbando main cant beat mcgay blizzard pls nerf, teamplay is for fags anyways i want to 1on1!!!!!!
>thus the only true roadhog counter was removed

>>377426949

>Nah he actually requires mechanical skill to really shine which is rare in overwatch

That's every fucking character in the game.

Solider has so many easy to understand and straightforward tools, that you have to literally be retarded to not get kills with him.

>>377427014
I absolutely agree, which is what I initially suggested by giving 76 a range limitation so he wouldn't be competing with McCree. I'd rather not nerf peacemaker because landing headshots as McCree is the most fun thing about him imo.

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>>377426815
>>377427058

like what this guy said
>>377426949

you can say he is easy all you want, but in reality, he's not "press H and pick soldier to win"

if you cant aim worth dogshit, then guess what, hes not so easy. if you can actually aim and kill things then yeah, you'll carry the game. but if you cant aim and suck dick then stop saying hes easy. youre just trash.

>t. someone whos mained 76 since Season 1

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>>377427058
>this DPS hero takes no skill
I swear, I've seen this board complain about every Offense hero at least once, and claim they take no skill when you have shit like Symmetra and Mercy who require only the bare minimum, which is just positional awareness.

>>377427240
>That's every fucking character in the game.

When half of them has auto aim, splash damage or projectiles the size of a bus?

I dont think so.

The hitscan characters naturally do take more mechanical skill than the rest of the cast

>>377427014
Fan the hammer damage shouldn't have been nerfed, it should've just done less damage to armor and shields

>>377410490
Fuck off with your assfaggots, underage retard.

>>377427179

>Character with the revolver based off of games like counter strike being good at both close range and medium+long range

It was removed because it was stupid. He had no counters and it made no sense for his character.

>>377427389
how does it feel to be a literal hillary clinton voter

>>377427372
so they should just delete hog while they are at it

>>377427306

>If you can't aim in an FPS, then you don't do good.

Are you seriously fucking retarded, or do you just no understand english?

S76 is the easiest character to play and understand in the entire game.

OF course you need to be good at the game to beat people who are also good at the game; What a retarded and pedantic point to try and make.

>>377427468
>literally no argument except for your huge anti soldier hateboner

>>377427453
If hog can't grab McCree with OG FTH then he deserves to die

This argument is circuitous and stupid, can we just start screaming names of metals at each other like normal people?

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>>377427468
if S76 is so easy then why cant you play him? youre the one getting mad. you could easily pick one of the oh so much harder characters. maybe try mery or symmetra, they take a lot more skill than soldier does (in your view)

>>377427306

The other offense characters are harder, Blizzard themselves said they made him as a way for certain types of players to be able to get into the game.

What I said here: >>377426930
Is what you think is skill. Tracking is the skillful part of 76 but the other tools just makes him easier to track with than other tracking characters such as Tracer.

>>377427604
Death metal?

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>>377427604
YOU FUCKING BISMUTH

>>377427587

>Anti-solider hate boner.

I don't hate solider at all. I actually love him and playing as him.

I know that he's one of the easier classes to pick up and play though. All of his mechanics are the same baseline FPS mechanics that everyone's been using for years.

He has an automatic hitscan weapon with a steroid ult and fucking pocket heals.

The only aspect of soldier that takes a semblance of real skill is landing helix rockets outside of autoaim.

If you know how to play FPS games, you can do very well with soldier

Holy shit76 is so easy to play I literally got up to platinum playing him during the first season

>>377427468
>S76 is the easiest character to play and understand in the entire game.
Winston. I love that giant rape ape, but with at least three of a shitty Genji, Tracer, Widow, Hanzo or Lucio in every game, it's extremely easy to do well. Your only job is "not die", which is already a given if you aren't stupid enough to dive into three people by yourself.

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>>377410490
>yfw all these people defending soldier76
me in the back

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>>377427604
YOU SILVER FUCK

>>377427332
Well it's an opinion, everyone thinks that a specific character is more unfair than others no matter what. I just believe that 20 dps with that fire rate is a little much. either 18 dps or he can't land headshots. that's the only way he'll be balanced. I know it sounds retarded but golden gun soldier 76 mains make me want to stick my balls in a blender.

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>>377427870
>platinum
>first season

try again

>>377427604
You cancerous piece of uranium

>>377427928

I'd disagree.

Playing Winston well means knowing how to dive properly and when and where to place your bubbles down.

You can play solider all game and do nothing but harass from the flanks and still be a credit to your team.

>>377427935
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZu5iDTtNg0

Why is this the best couch gag they ever made?

>>377412935
Ironically one of the best ways to take out a soldier is with pharah. Yes Soldier is great at forcing pharah out of the sky when he has the jump on her, but if you know where soldier is as pharah, you can direct rocket while boosting in and then just delete him with splash damage while you're too close for him to aim properly. Alternatively, get a zen orb and dump rockets on cart from beyond everyone's effective range. even if his aim is perfect you can just shrug it off with the slightest bit of healing at long range.

>>377410490
Ricochet bullets.

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>>377428172

>>377416145
I'm a godlike hog, but it's just too tiresome to play him. Carrying isn't fun.

>>377427928
>>377428095

Winston and 76 take different type of skills, Winston reminds me more of a mix between a MOBA character and a fighting game character with his focus on spacing and disrupting. He's way different from any usual fps class which is why many players get confused on how to play him.

>>377428095
>See any 200 HP shitter that doesn't have two butt buddies with him
>Jump on top of him
>Slam down the shields and fry him to death
>Jump out

>>377428402
>See any 200 HP shitter that doesn't have two butt buddies with him

so in other words matches that only take place in platinum and below

>>377415064
Then how come there are dozens of videos of grandmasters starting over in bronze and getting back up to GM easily? Dude I know it sucks that you have your skill evaluated lower than you want it to be, but the truth is that pretty much everyone on both teams is about as good as you are, if you were significantly better than you'd climb quickly.

>>377412660
It takes 10 seconds or less to google "McCree bonus damage against flying targets" (or something similar) and the first result is that reddit thread. You don't have to be a redditfag to be able to see the threads. Please kill yourself.

>>377416227
But Mercy isn't?

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>leave pharmacy to me

>>377429918
>

Bring back fan the hammer headshots

The recoil makes it super hard anyways, having just 1 or 2 be headshots makes his CQC so much better

>>377412563
He was never above ~70% pickrate and there is nothing wrong about it considergin that Rein and Zarya were at like 80-90% that time.

>Thats 2 heroes. A hardcounter is a hero that can engage Roadhog alone and almost always come out on top.
At the highest level of play tracer has the advantage over road because it's possible to react to hook. It doesn't matter if he will heal or not because he is almost completely immobile during his heal and it takes about 2 seconds for him to heal, that's reload+magdump for tracer.

It doesn't matter that he can OHKO her in melee range or at sweet spot because it's avoidable. Just like widow/hanzo don't counter tracer because they can OHKO her.

>>377430128
>Bring back fan the hammer headshots

fan the hammer headshots were never a thing
and thank god for that

>>377430128
NO.

Fan the hammer was a design mistake, There's no way to make it balanced, Best thing you can do is tone down the damage falloff, Hitting people from afar takes more skill than on mid range, but you still get 0 reward by seeing as it did no damage

>>377410591
this is actually a really good passive ability. I'd love it

>>377410591
as long as simply jumping isnt considered flying id allow it to at least be on the PTR

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48KB, 620x700px

>>377416354
>Not knowing McCree is coming
>loudest footsteps in game
>anon doesn't have situational awareness

Weeeeew

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757KB, 1920x1080px

>>377429918
Nothing better than being the top elims fucker on your team with zen.

McCree is fine, his kit is just shit.

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>>377412563
>Idiots want to pretend there's no reason Roadhog was a 100% pick in pro tournament play just before his most recent nerf.
Idiots want to pretend Roadhog wasn't a middling pick in higher tiersuntil Ana buff and discord nerf created the tank meta.

>nerfing soldier in this tank meta

>>377432434
>nerfing soldier but not nerfing pharah

What the fuck were they thinking?

>>377412768
Widow and reaper are supposed to, but they don't.

>>377433047
Yeah its hillarious how reaper is straight up the worst character in the game and his KIT just does not work at all

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>>377413281

>>377433146
he's not the worst, but you're right that his kit doesn't work

>roll now drops a flash bang
>fan the hammer hits lower flash bang cooldown
>headshots apply flash bang stun

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10KB, 208x243px

>>377432540

>>377432434
What tank meta? Pretty sure that stopped being an unstoppable force the minute it became possible to dive Ana.

I stopped playing overwatch after it's first month that it came out. What have I missed?

>>377433795
>Update
Hot grannies

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>>377412594
>calls guy 'fucking retard redditor'
>goes on to explain that he goes on reddit
>tries (and fails) to defend the fact that he browses the Overwatch subreddit, which just sounds like pure cancer
Speaking of which, back to Overwatch's Reddit boyo, come back when you're 18

>>377429181
So are we supposed to Google everything we say incase some redditor already said it? Maybe you should go back since you're so focused on what they're saying.

>>377411123
especially on console. McCree is worthless on console compared to soldier

>>377434178
>So are we supposed to Google everything we say incase some redditor already said it?
yes, lurk moar newfag

>>377411737
Especially considering most of his nerfs were implemented to balance around allowing multiple of the same hero

Make his reload animation way fucking faster so he can output more then like 200 damage every 10 seconds

>>377412258
Hard counters to roadhog: Orisa, Sombra
soft counter to roadhog: junkrat, bastion, Ana, Reaper

If they made it so you could shoot while being hooked, Reaper would be a hard counter too

>>377434607
>calls newfag as an insult
>admits to going to reddit
hmm wonder who the actual newfag is here...

>>377435045
Lurk moar newfag.

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>>377434905
>sombra

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>>377410490
Decrease damage falloff.

>>377435703
>hack health pack
>place beacon on health pack
>turn invisible
>hack Roadhog
>spray his fat face
>avoid lethal damage by being skinny bitch
>teleport back to beacon
repeat until hog is dead or switches

>reaper has more spread
>he now heals for all the damage he does
there, now no tank can possibly beat reaper in a 1v1, and teams need to focus fire reaper

>>377435904
>avoid
roadhog's spread is bigger than sombra's character model, so good luck

>>377427604
(((STAINLESS))) STEEL