Tyranny Didn't Sell: Part 3

>A shitty RPG with a bland world where each choice boils down to Side with the Apples, Side with the Oranges, or go LuL Crazy and kill both

It was shit and it deserves not to sell

AoD is shit and RPGCodex shills need to leave.

KOTOR2 IS THE BEST THING OBSIDIAN HAS EVER MADE

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Person below me couldn't figure his way out of the first room in Wizardry 4.

>>377400201
WHY ARE YOU POSTING THIS LIKE IT'S CONTROVERSIAL?

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>>377400202
Same dude

>Been Kyros' loyal enforcer, didn't do evil things for evil's sake, upholded Kyros' Law, solved everything and bashed the stupid shit Archons heads together to stop their rebelling
>Game still forced me to betray Kyros because "I became too powerful" because must have a fucking sequel

Fucking niggers

>>377400201
Why are the only decent Obsidian games those where they had to do everything in 10 months and ship it half-raw.

>>377400260
BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN PLAYING THROUGH IT AGAIN RECENTLY AND REALIZED JUST HOW WONDERFUL IT IS AND KIND OF WANT TO SHILL IT A LITTLE BIT SO OTHER ANONS WILL GET AS MUCH FUN FROM IT AS IT GAVE ME

>>377400128
>Part 3
Tyranny is shit, but why do you have such a hate boner for it?

>>377400201
I liked MOTB more by virtue of it not being broken

>>377400260
Because deep inside he knows New Vegas and Mask of the Betrayer are better.

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>>377400201
I wish it could've been finalized. The restoration mod helps a lot, but there's some things we will never get. Like Bao fucking Dur just dying off-screen. I'll never not be mad.

>modern day crpg revival
>all the combat in them is shit

T U R N B A S E D T A C T I C A L W H E N

>>377400337
They actually need somebody breathing down their necks to deliver. Sad.

>>377400370
These threads have been going all night, it's pretty much just arguing over WRPGs vs JRPGs and everyone shilling their favorites.

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>>377400337
really makes me think

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>>377400250
Why would anyone play this shit?

>>377400446
Them, George Lucas and Hideo Kojima.

>>377397196
>There's both of those things but they're not "thriving" because the overlord was Lawful Evil. Things are only actually shitty in Tyranny because you're in the last holdout area against the overlord.
So they tried to make the overlord evil but ended up with their ideal of a Stalinist utopia.

>>377400452
Why must they make it a war in the first place. I enjoy both types of RPG just fine.

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>>377400128
>Tyranny didn't sell
>a game that was developped by Obsidian's newbie staff didn't sell
>meanwhile, PoE2 made by all the actually talented people at Obsidian got more backer money than PoE1 and PoE1 was the most financially successful project Obsidian has ever done

>>377400330
I took solice, although only a little, in your pen pal theorising that in order to stay truly loyal to Kyros you must accept your position as his rival.

>>377400540
Because that's not the /v/ way

>>377400342
But I know I sound like a sad loser. The better question is who cares?
>hurr look at how above you all I am because I have no discernment in what I play
Good for you, now fuck off.

I like the settings and writing of the new Shadowrun games quite a bit. Loved party members in both the expansion games. The combat wasn't much but I did really love that I could go full cyborg monster in Hong Kong.
A monofilament whip is so fucking cool of an idea. As is a magnet arm to deflect grenades.

I hope Cyberpunk 2077 nails the setting and combat mods at least.

>>377400540
It's ok to enjoy both but you have to admit that JRPG's are better and more varied

>>377400330

Sounds like a BioWare-tier scenario, really. Sad since I'm pretty sure Obsidian's old Alpha Protocol gave you the option to side with the corporate bigwig MIC industrialist villain of that game. Why not be happy in the evil faction?

>"you're clearly only motivated by trying to steal Kyros' throne from her"

NO MY QUEEN I WANT YOU TO SIT ON MY FACE AND CALL ME A GOOD GENERAL FOR CLEANING UP THE MESS YOU SENT ME TO CLEAN UP AND MAYBE GIVE ME A FOOTJOB

But wasteland 2 came out before pillars of eternity

>>377400553
People here just like seeing stuff fail ever since the Tortanic. Plus, you gotta pretend you hate Pillars for KKK.

>>377400601
Cyberpunk 2077 is vaporware

>>377400728
Hello Mr. Armchair game dev!

>>377400613
>more varied
High fantasy with attractive teen & 20-something party
Low fantasy with attractive teen & 20-something party
Sci-fi with attractive teen & 20-something party
Post-apocalyptic with attractive teen & 20-something party
Anachronistic with attractive teen & 20-something party

Much respect to the occasional JRPG with an actual child or animal party member to go with the attractive teen & 20-something party.

>>377400601
Those games could do with better combat but also, there's another complaint I don't see often about them. I sort of hate how the "talky" parts and the combat parts are so compartmentalized. You get back from a run and it's between 30 mins to an hour of just talking with npcs and squad mates. Then you go on a run and it's just wave after wave of security goons to shoot. The only time it doesn't feel like that are during your teammates' personal quests. I wanted the rest of the game to feel more like that.

>>377400696
Wasteland is very different from the IE games

>>377400753
>you need to be a cook to know that the food you ordered is never coming your way despite seeing the chef run outside and get gunned by two mafioso

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>>377400681
It really devalues the concept of a game where evil won if you're forced at the end to rebel against the evil.

It really fucking pisses me off because I enjoyed being a loyal servant for once, because I had context for what I was doing.

>>377400786
kek

>>377400786
Oh boy, a food analogy! I honestly can't tell the trolls between actual retarded fucks who don't know what's going on at all and make dumb assumptions.

>>377400757
>the only JRPG games I heard about is Final Fantasy: the post
Still pretty impressive how a single JRPG franchise has more variety than all WRPG's combined

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>this thread

>>377400757
Those are all actually rather varied despite how much you're trying to shitpost.

>>377400907
Your game isn't even a real RPG, morrowfag

>>377400128
>Something with no marketing doesn't sell

HOW COULD IT BE?

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>not playing both RPG and JRPG
>spending more time arguing on internet instead of playing games
>giving shit about /v/ opinion
Unless you play modern Bethesda games in that case you can go fuck yourself.

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>>377400854
>>377400967

>>377400940
Not trying to shitpost, I'm pointing out my biggest problem with JRPGs - offensively stock characters.

>>377400981
It is fucking dawn in burgerland and I can't binge all night like I used to. Sometimes a good argument with /v/ is enough to give me a little satisfaction.

>>377400939
Only because the UI is so retarded and the pause/unpause combat is finicky as hell. IE games are the classic example of artificial difficulty.

>>377400760
>Then you go on a run and it's just wave after wave of security goons to shoot.
In Hong Kong at least half of the time you could avoid combat.

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>>377401090

>>377400974
This, paradox were massive jews and expected the game to sell purely on Obsidian's name alone when it was a very well known fact that Obsidian is too busy working on PoE2 to give this game the attention it needed to be good.

Still, Obsidian got paid regardless of the game's sales, so In a way I'm glad it bombed and hurt Paradox.

>>377401109
Y'know I don't remember anyone in the past three threads even mentioning SMT. Where did you come from?

>>377401101
This is why I like it more than Dragonfall. There's smart ways through plenty of runs, and if there's not a combat-free solution there's frequently one where you can use abilities to greatly diminish the amount of enemies you have to face.

>>377401101
HK does improve some of that, you're right.
However I also felt that it got needlessly wordy compared to Dragonfall

why cant beamdog just take infinity engine, hire/team up with competent writers and make a new IP for fucks sake just give me baldurs gate 3

Is it even possible for Kotor 3 to be good if by some miracle it happened?

>>377401090
I don't even disagree that RWTP is anything but ideal, but it easily beats FFVII in terms of tactical depth.

>>377401196
>WotC ever allowing an AD&D 2E game to come out
Not gonna happen bucko, any new D&D game would need to use the latest edition rules.

>>377401256
It did, it was the Jedi Knight storyline in SWTOR. ;^)

>>377401109
Neat, a game that lets me role-play as a Japanese school kid with occult powers. Sure beats playing the same space marine and medieval wizard characters like in all WRPGs.

I liked Tyranny. I mean sure, i pirated it. But i preferred it to poe and NuMenEra

>>377400854
All of those settings exist in WRPGs as well though. And they even manage to be actual RPGs at the same time and have tactically more elaborate combat systems.

I can get that people like the anime aesthetics of JRPGs but gameplay wise most people should be able to see that they're really poor games.

>>377401270
5e is fucking blaaaaaand.

>>377401263
Tactical options sure, depth is a different thing entirely. Depth requires actual balance.

>>377401397
>Depth requires actual balance.
Go to bed, Josh.

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The three mainline Shadowrun games made by HBS are trash combat wise. Not only are the combat parts too easy, you don't get to fight things that are actually difficult in the Shadowrun setting: properly built enemy megacorp or even rival shadowrunner character teams. If you want actually good combat in the Shadowrun setting, play Chronicles, it's unarguably one of the hardest SRPGs to ever exist and will blow you the fuck away with its challenge level, especially in the Infected DLC missions.

>>377400357
you need to be 18

>best thing about the old crpgs being lore, writing, and gameplay
>nu crpgs throw all that away in and replace it with standard save the world with wacky sjw characters

>>377401467
Not everyone here has played every game being discussed, Anon. Like with Age of Decadence.

>>377400357

hey guys i just discovered kotor, man i love old rpgs am i right folks xd

>>377401446
Stop playing everything on easy then you filthy casual.

>>377401182
>Why didn't Tolstoy write a route where Anna Karenina doesn't kill herself and becomes queen of Russia instead? Doesn't that pleb realize that CYOA are the pinnacle of literature?!

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Fuck american. This is what the future should look like, and it's glorious!

>>377401525
>there are people who dodged that bullet
I envy their innocence.

>spend 4 years hitting F5 on the homepage
>turns out the 2 year old demo town is the highlight of the game

>>377401136
>obsidian burns yet another bridge in the industry by disappointing and underdelivering to a developer
>obsidrones say this is a Good Thing
>then will later say that the only reason they're producing shitty cRPGs which are a shadow of the genre's former glory is because the industry treats them unfairly

>>377401534
>implying I didn't first play it over a decade ago on Xbox

>>377401613
Why hasn't the west managed to make an RPG better than Princess Maker?

>>377401613
I wish Nier was 75% off already, the butthurt Tarofags would be suicidal.

>>377401613
>Melty Blood
Is it any good and is it still alive after all this time? I miss that game and I could just cave in and get it.

>>377401613
HOL UP
MELTY BLOODY IS ON STEAM, WHEN, HOW

>>377401572
The point is that he could have done so and the original plot of Anna Karenina would have existed as one of the possible branches. Any linear plot can be told as one branch of a branched plot. The quality of writing is independent from the means of how it's delivered. Your argument has been logically refuted.

>>377401691
The west didn't get its dignity nuked in the 40s.

>>377401559
LMAO, I finished all mainline SR games on very hard - the difficulty setting that is the only setting Chronicles has. In the mainline SR games, the highest difficulty setting basically gives the enemy characters the same AP pool as yours, so you have to actually up the difficulty to the max to play the game with proper rules. In Chronicles, all enemies have the same AP pool as you and their stats and combat capabilities obey the same rules as your characters do, which makes the game balls to the wall hard.

TL;DR: you have no clue what you're talking about.

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>>377401754
Meltymind

>>377401754
since a good year.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/411370/Melty_Blood_Actress_Again_Current_Code/

>>377401862
Do Japanese devs deliberately try to pick the weirdest possible names for their games in order to make sure baka gaijin are repelled?

>>377401534
KotOR isn't even a good nerd cred game. If he wanted to jerk off his e-peen he would go for something like NWN2 or BG2.

>Never got on sale (a real sale, not 10%)
>No updated content
>Sjw trash
>Horrible combat
>Short as fuck

Geeeee how the hell it didnt sell?

>>377401397
FFVII is an extremely shitty example if you're trying to imply that JRPGs are balanced, honestly one of the worst you could've picked.

>>377401930
It probably sounds less wierd in japanese.

>>377402050
Third party here, how isn't it balanced? I never finished it.

>>377402086
Mimic materia is completely broken with summons.

>>377401435
Pillars being overly balanced is a meme just like how min-maxing in it isn't effective. If Josh was trying to make it balanced he did a shit job of it. In fact I don't think I've ever played an RPG with balanced tactical combat.

>>377402050
Baldur's Gate is an extremely shitty example if you're trying to imply that WRPG's have tactical depth, honestly one of the worst you could've picked.

>>377402082
Then why transliterate the title instead of translating it properly?

And don't
>translation costs
me, it's less than ten words.

>>377400128
The art style just killed it for me, so much that I wouldn't want to play it, so I decided not to buy it.

I don't care about having good graphics, I'm happier playing ADOM using ASCII than their new tileset, but just playing through Tyranny's character creation felt like I was setting up to watch a Pixar/Dreamworks movie.

For me that art style choice ruins any ambience, which I find is very important to storytelling games.

>>377402254
Because it sounds cool and the target audience doesn't care.

>>377402190
Why do people want this "balanced" combat to begin with? It's a single player game. Figuring out cheesy or outlandish builds should be something that is allowed to do. It makes games seem less fun if everything you find is carefully balanced and made double-sure that it can't be exploited in any way.

>>377401930
No, they unironically think their titles are cool. Probably because they all have birth defects.

>>377402276
LMAO WRONG

Acceptable reasons are:
>SJWs
>feminism
>numales
>cucks

did it really give you a chance to be evil?
from what I've seen the gameplay is pretty mild

someone post screenshots of their SJW as fuck dialog

>>377402405
People wanted Chaotic Evil. They got Lawful Evil.

>ANOTHER fantasy RPG
Couldn't care less, honestly. They all look the same to me with a few rare exceptions. Played one - played all of them.

>>377402461
They got true neutral-come-chaotic-good.

>>377400128
This game was released already?

>>377402309
Because balanced combat means you can go balls to the wall with optimizing everything and the game can still fight back against you.

>>377402376
Well I am tired of "sword age" games forcing equality of gender roles these days.

I don't see why developers don't depict women's roles as they were in the past in reality, largely represented by servitude and obedience to men. Matriarchal societies in reality ended up always either mythical or just primitive and uncivilized.

But as for Tyranny, I couldn't get past the "choose your adventure" part of the character creation on account of my distaste of the art style, so I can't comment on any content of the game past that.

>>377402309
This.

>>377401930
English sounds cool to them and they don't really know what it means. It's the same thing when retards here wear clothes with chink moon runes and say a few japanese words.
We've all seen the pictures where they wear clothing which say "bitch" and the like.

>>377402309
If you can exploit a game you will tend to use it after you discover it.
This has a decent chance of ruining the game.

If you want to play the game on easy play it on easy don't search for an exploit to"earn" easy mode.

>>377402928
>Well I am tired of "sword age" games forcing equality of gender roles these days.
I feel that this has been since forever in video games though. Even the really old rpgs didn't really care about it.

>>377403417
Thats because DnD never cared much about it, except maybe some minor things in early editions.

>>377403417
>this has been since forever in video games
In DnD, too. Fantasy is for escapism and fun; if some neckbear wants his barbarian to be Red Sonja instead of Conan, why stop them?

>>377400128
CRPG is a dead genre without some sort of fun gameplay to actually back it up. At the very best you'll get low-tier indie sales, so you better have a low-tier indie budget.

>>377400432
>T U R N B A S E D T A C T I C A L W H E N
Expeditions Conquistadors and Vikings my nigga

If you made a good, unique looking game then even normies will buy it.
Just look at Persona 5, it's 100h+ long weebshit that scored over 90 on meta and even normies are playing it.

>>377400201
and it's shit like all their other products

>>377400432
Literally every crpg has turn based combat with exception of poe
Fuck off

>>377400854
>>377400940
Is there any jrpg where protagonist is 40-something?
Nier doesnt count

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>>377403687

D&D was always gender-equality.

The real cancer is when they start complaining about female bikinis because they're unrealistic. If you want to talk about realism, then the only women you'd see would be farmgirls (probably pregnant) and stay-at-home mothers, you silly motherfuckers. REAL realism would be completely removing women from being playable, unless you wanted to play House, I mean.

It didn't sell well because people started realizing all the "Muh Nostalgia" posts were right.

Realizing you have shitty taste in games is a bitter pill to swallow.

>>377404067
>With real realism
That one doesn't have adventurers either.

>>377400128
I've never even heard of this game.

Pillars was a genuinely good game with interesting lore and only fucked up in how it introduced the player to the world and it's concepts.

Tyranny was just a railroaded rpg with sub-par writing that was way too short and couldn't deliver on it's reactivity promise.

>>377404305
Do we blame the publishers.....yet again?

>>377404067
>If you want to talk about realism, then the only women you'd see would be farmgirls (probably pregnant) and stay-at-home mothers
That's not realism, that's just lazy pandering to the layman conception of what history was like. "Stay-at-home" isn't even a term that makes a lot of sense outside of relatively modern employment conditions. Actual realism would require a lot of historical research on the part of the developer and would be very educational if done right.

>>377403959
>bait

What bait? It's true. Even Underrail didn't sell great and it was probably the best CRPG released in the past few years. It's a genre that everyone dickrides but when push comes to shove nobody buys.

>>377405057
Because they're a chore to actually play

>>377405519
This. Turn based combat systems are always tedious and dull, all of the mechanics put into them don't add to any tactical depth or anything, they just make you sift through more numbers and menus that cause even the simplest of fights to last far longer than they should.

If a game like this had even the most basic of action gameplay, even a Diablo-like thing, it would be much more attractive and the game wouldn't lose a thing.

>>377405751
IGO/UGO TB is the problem.It is simple to implement and simple to master.
Proper TB is hard to implement and not easy to master.

The first works better for those seeking a power fantasy in an RPG.

>>377401446
Chronicles is fucking shit m8

>>377405751
Nothing is as bad as RTWP. I do agree that turn-based isn't very good unless it offers the immense tactical variety that a Roguelike does, however

>>377406135
>IGO/UGO TB is the problem
The only alternaive is rtwp.

>>377406885
What's so bad about RTWP?

>>377407107
It always end up in a clusterfuck

>>377407107
Nothing.

>>377400128
i actually liked tyranny. poe is a better game overall but i tyranny has a unique setting and felt much more concise. poe felt too much like bg and didn't really step out from its shadow.

tyranny desperately needs an expansion though. the end game bosses show that the combat has a lot of potential, but it's never fully explored because there's only 3 fucking enemy types.

>>377407259
Only if you're shit at the game.

More like Tyran... .Tryan.... Tranny!

>>377407084
I would go with issuing orders for a 6 second turn and the game determines the outcome.
The trouble is it would require more skill from the dev and the player.
Both are in short supply where these type of games are concerned.

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>>377400128
Westernshit is bad and water is wet, lol.

>You can be a bad guy
>We promise you guys, this is different than everything you've ever seen!
I'm glad I didn't pay for this shit.

>>377407107
It has all the gameplay limitations of turn-based with none of the benefits of real-time gameplay.

The fact that it's real-time with PAUSE is like a testament to how shit the system it is. An action RPG system so bad that pausing the fucking game to plan what you're going to do is considered a core game mechanic.

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>>377400681

Alpha Protocol even let you kill the MIC Industrial Villain and use the knowledge you got from the interrogation to make a shadow takeover of it. Alpha Protocol let you be evil as fuck way more than Tyranny ever did.

>MFW reminding Albatross you killed Sis every single conversation after with him

>>377407767
Is KOTOR the only vidya RPG ever made that has satisfying evil gameplay?

>>377407976
Alpha Protocol

>>377400128
They should learn from jrpgs and make good games.

>>377407976
No, because you only have evil choices to the same story.

>>377400128
>helped kill RPGs
Every single RPG made after 2005 did that.

>>377401930
>Do Japanese devs deliberately try to pick the weirdest possible names for their games in order to make sure baka gaijin are repelled?


They literally name their light novels an entire paragraph long. Like the shit that would go on the back of the book goes on the front.

If I were to tell you that there is a Light Novel called "My sister won't stop tempting me with her bike shorts! And then we were transported to a fantasy universe and my sister is now my wife? And my childhood friend won't stop trying to kill me! And other such things." You'd literally have to believe me because maybe I'm telling the truth.

>>377400330
Something something Sith something something taking the torch through backstabbing.

>>377400412
They're not even particularly good. Is KOTOR 2 worse?

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>>377400128

>>377407767
The funny thing is that both of those ended up being wrong. "You're good in a world where the bad guys have already won" is one of the most common RPG settings, most notably every Legend of Zelda.

>>377408512
I hope the combat in this one isn't just about throwing oil on everything.

>>377408294
kotor 2 a bit over mediocre so yes, worse than new vegas.
>inb4 MUH DEPTH

>>377408606
it wasn't about that in the D:OS
D:OS combat was about using that spell that drops a massive rock, leaves acid pool and then using any kind of fire spell!

>>377407651
>I would go with issuing orders for a 6 second turn and the game determines the outcome.
That's how wizardry and dragon quest work, but they still have Igougo sytem, the only difference is that you assign orders before your party acts. I've never seen a turn based game with simultaneous turn resolution.

>>377407976
Nah, Geneforge series.

>>377407976
You can be a total sociopathic asshole in Planescape:Torment.

>>377408828
>I've never seen a turn based game with simultaneous turn resolution.

Grandia?

>>377407873
this post is so wrong i dont know where to start

>>377409139
These newfags who play shit like cRPGs don't play games, anon.

>>377409139
I'm not sure that ATB can qualify as a one.

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>>377409248

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>>377409414
Fuck off newfag.

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>>377408512
Original Sin is the living proof that success comes from innovation and modernising rather than sticking to shitty outdated models and concepts literally from the previous millennium
A lot of people dislike OS because of it's light hearted humour and mediocre story (but of which are legitimate points) but somehow still wonder why no one aside from the MUH HARDCORE autismo crowd that doesn't actually like video games wants to play RTwP with page upon page of modern ''''''storytelling''''''

pic not really related

>>377409527
Who pissed in your cofee today?

>>377400432
Why the fuck does noone discuss Divnity: OS. Enhanced Edition is literally perfect cause it added voiceover to all the lines.

>>377405057
>>377405751

I did buy Tyranny and surprise, the combat was meh and the roleplaying was not really there.

This is literally all of the CPRGs in the last years. The combat is too simple to be really challenging and enjoyable and the roleplaying is stilted.

Its still better than roleplaying in shit like Bioware´s latest trip to the awful-writing valley, but its also worse than in the past.

>>377409179
He is correct.

Imagine you are Bioware in early 1990's. You'r developing RTS and then Interplay tells you to turn it into RPG. It's okay though - you have an engine and RTS games are popular so RPG that plays like RTS would make lots of sense.

So you make a proof of concept of the combat system and try it out. It doesn't work. Too fast for actually utilising all the options D&D gives you, let alone positioning your party properly. Okay fine slow it down, shit it's too slow, looks like shit nobody will want to play it, so let's go somewhere in between...

And then you realise that it still doesn't fucking work. There's no compromise to be had, even remaking interface 5 times so it would be easier to control it didn't help. You automate the characters quite a bit(and then market as "it literally plays by itself), still doesn't want to work. So you add ability to pause the game. It wrecks the game logic(IE still "counts" turns under the hood, by initiating pause you're cutting one of them short) but it makes for a playable experience. Here you go - it's great. Instant classic.

The reality about IE games was that when they looked pretty, utilised ability CD gave them and were released in the right time - early RTS games started becoming very popular and RPG's became... not very popular with the publishers, so there was drought on the market.

tl;dr if you want to make successful RPG make it play like MOBA

Turn-based combat where characters take individual turns based on initiative/speed and where abilities and spells have different cast and recovery times is the best party-based RPG combat system.
Movement can be grid based, but I prefer the newer free style of DivOS and ToEE.

Every once in a while some dev thinks he's a fucking genius and tries to improve this system, but the game always ends up worse.

Grandia/Child of Lights one time bar for everyone is pretty neat though.

>>377408826
So literally the oil spell but bigger?

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>tfw roguelikes are the pinnacle of low-budget single-player RPG but the genre is impenetrable because people are too damn casual for them and actual roguelike players refuse to spend money

>>377402082
It actually can't be translated in japanese.
So basically, "Melty Blood" actually makes even less sense in japanese.

Westernboos are just as bad as weeaboos.

>>377400601
The writing in Shadowrun is dog shit. How could you enjoy the party members when they are all one-note (here is my obvious backstory and motivation for joining your quest) and never have any interesting interactions with each other?

Aside from the characters, the entirety of the writing sucks - it's clear that the author has only a casual grasp of the English language and so many things are grammatically incorrect or just worded improperly.

>>377410249
I'm still pissed that Harebrained Schemes didn't make Shadowrun games with actual Shadowrun mechanics, but went for for nuxcom clone instead.

>>377410797
Are there some roguelikes that are easier to gt into? At least UI wise.

>>377402461
Bullshit your actions are either "be the good person" or "stab the person standing in front of you" you are never Lawful Evil

>>377410861
>never have any interesting interactions with each other
Thats a problem of every rpg, since everything is player centric and characters almost never do their own things.

It's 2017, isometric RPGs are stupid, they should make games with a camera more like DAO and stuff, I don't like having to click everywhere, controlling your character with WASD makes it much more immersive.

>>377400128
>Tyranny
>Way better than PoE
>Sold unwell
really makes me think

>>377400128
There is some truth to this.
Kickstarter, just like everything else on the internet, is perceived bigger then it really is.
A lot of the shit being greenlite and funded is largely fueled by nostalgia, but nostalgia is only great until everyone realizes that the thing they so fondly remember wasn't so great to begin with.

>>377400128

Didn't play tyranny because PoE was bland, shitty garbage. Was hoping for a modernized + improved Infinity engine title and instead got a railroad-ish casual mess.

>>377409563

Larian has always had that same kind of silly RPG writing. I think it was just RPG starved crowd stumbling onto DivOS that got annoyed by the mediocrity. Divinity has ALWAYS been mediocre! It started as a Diablo clone that went horribly right somewhere. Divinity not taking itself too seriously helps prevent it from getting a grognard stick up its ass.

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>>377411247
>camera more like DAO
Looks isometric to me.
>controlling your character with WASD makes it much more immersive
Personal preferences, so it's better to have both.

>>377409248
but cRPGs are the best games.
only retards and kids under 12 play other types

>>377400489
people have a hard-on for sadistic video games
forget dark souls, wizardry was the definition of absolutely balls hard RPG back in the day because it pretty much granted you no leniency and unless you cheated the saves, that was it, run over, start again. even the crummy MMO had perma-death for your characters (unless you went to the cash shop of course)

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>>377411453
>It started as a Diablo clone that went horribly right somewhere
Because it had rpg stuff that Diablo didn't have.

Is it proper to compare Divinity Original Sin to these types of games? Because that did it right.

>>377411453
The problem is not simply that it doesn't always take itself seriously or that it has lighthearted moments, but that it's simply not good. Previous Divinity games had a different writer, Original Sin was done by a team of freshly recruited college graduate newbies.

Besides, the previous Divinities had grimdark stories masked with humorous writing. Just think Sentinel Island in Divinity 2. By the end of it you are forced to execute a bunch of innocent people, and your neutral cop-out option is to leave it to RNG who dies, instead of picking them yourself. But there is no way to save them.

Tyranny was a billion times better than pillars, what the fuck OP

>>377400193
>AoD is shit and RPGCodex shills need to leave.
kill you're selves.

>>377408294
Mask of the betrayer is easily top 5 rpgs of all time.

>>377410976
One Way Heroics, DoomRL, Tome 4, most indielikes.

>>377411782
honestly though, diablo was always crazy overrated, just a simple hack'n'slash. never understood why people loved it. i suppose there's always room for a game with mindless button spamming

I didn't buy it because of the sjw shit.

>>377410976
Tales of Maj'Eyal is a good ADoM-style roguelike and it's easy to get into, there's also games like Caves of Qud and Brogue if you want the more classical roguelike style.

>>377412114
I like diablo (the first and second one) not because of the gameplay (it's way too shallow) but because of the atmosphere.

>>377412114
Extremely good loot system. Diablo lived (and died, as demonstrated by 3) by its loot and equipment design.

>>377412114
You could be a necromancer. Too few games allow you to be one, let alone be a proper necromancer instead of just a mage with one or two raise skeleton spells among a whole lot of other things. Beggars can't be choosers.

>>377412276
Interesting. I can see that.

Still, I never understood the popularity of the game. It was fun, dont get me wrong, but it wasnt THAT fun. But I think old games have to be judged by a slightly different point of view, many f them doing things first and such.

>>377411987
Easily no.

Fallout, Witcher, DivDiv, Gothic 2, VTMB.

>>377400553
PoE did suck though.

>>377412548
>Gothic 2
>not Gothic

>>377411987
it's decent. It is farm from top anything.

>>377412613
Yes that's what I wrote.

Maj'Eyal you can also play before purchasing, the dev himself gives it away. Paying in unlocks a few bonus features and the 2 expansion campaigns.

Some of those classes have some obtuse-ass gimmicks, but they're locked behind achieving stuff so you wouldn't see them at the start anyway.

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>>377412548
Anon, I think you forgot something.

>>377412735
That's a stealth shooter with RPG elements.

>>377411783
You could be evil in DivOS?

>>377412613
gothic 2 is better.
>>377412548
you realize you mentioned 4 games there, right buddy? and fallout is not as good as mask of the betrayer, and divdiv isn't even CLOSE to as good as the other games on that list.

>>377412836
You could be an asshole for sure, but you're still forced to save the universe. Guess it's called for though since you'd die as well if you didn't become the hero.

>>377412772
That's a funny thing to say when you have a Gothic on your list.

>>377412893
It's still a better GAME than motb.

>>377413006
I don't.

>>377412548
>Witcher
>rpg
This meme has to end.

>>377413104
>You are playing the role of Geralt.
>Not RPG.

>>377413019
a game is as good as the components it's made up of, I don't give a shit if the combat mechanics are lacking. that's just narrowminded autism.

>>377413104
how isn't it?
>>377413161
wew kys.

>>377413087
In that case you are just simply wrong. Deus Ex doesn't simply have RPG elements, its entire gameplay revolves around them. Nor is it a stealth shooter, the entire point of the game is that it gives you tons of build and playstyle choices. To this day my favorite playthrough was a non-lethal zero stealth one where I stabbed everyone in their weapon holding arm to disable them, but haven't harmed them in any other way.

>>377413178
yeah and the summed up quality of components is better in divdiv, I don't get what point you're trying to argue

>>377413645
divdiv is worse than fallout and fallout is worse than motb, by extension, divdiv is worse than motb. MOTB is probably from a writing perspective the best game ever made.

>>377413621
>its entire gameplay revolves around them

No it doesn't, they're barely present. Non-combat doesn't automatically mean RPG. Thief is not an RPG, neither is Myst.

Like it or not Pillars sold well. People complained it was too easy when compared to Baldur's Gate.So what does Obby do? Make it fucking easier. And they're doing the same mistake for Pillars 2.

>>377413824
1. no it isn't
2. writing one of the least important qualities in a video game right next to voice acting and cutscenes

>>377414009
pillars wasn't half as good as tyranny, though. if they're repeating the mistakes of tyranny they're learning.

>>377414089
>writing one of the least important qualities in a video game
completely depends on the video game. In most rpgs it's the primary value. again, a game is as good as its components, motb has an incredibly good component in its writing.

>>377413948
Nigger, have you even played the game? Why would you even compare it to Thief or Myst? Thief shares a similar level design philosophy, but the gameplay of the two couldn't be more different.

What you can achieve in Deus Ex depends very heavily on the combine skill-aug system. There are so many things you can't do without the right stats it's not even funny.

>>377403906
No.

Most are real-time with pausing, that's not anywhere the same thing as turn-based.

Divinity: Original Sin is turn-based

Baldur's Gate and pretty much everything like it real-time with pausing.

>>377414227
What you can achieve in Counter-Strike also depends very heavily on your loadout, doesn't make it an RPG. Just because you aren't forced to apply the same single formula throughout the game doesn't make it an RPG.

>>377412114

Diablo was never about roleplaying and never pretended to be anything but hack n slash. That being said, I enjoy diablo games thoroughly for the "builds" / loot etc. though it was a shame to see Diablo 3 trivialize the character building.

>>377414226
>In most rpgs it's the primary value

No. Role playing is. Which means how much C&C is there, how much freedom you have and how your actions affect the game world.
In MOTB you are just dragged along a story with some (bad) combat thrown in and the writing isn't anything special. Deus Ex easily beats it on that front and it's not even an RPG.

>>377414846
>No. Role playing is. Which means how much C&C is there,
Yeah, that's part of writing, dofus.

>>377400128
It's not the gameplay that sank the title but the presentation and the fact that a linear story driven CRPG is flawed by design. Why do people play CRPGs? Because they want to explore the world and go on an adventure with a bunch of companions collecting treasure and fighting monsters. Story focused and linear games only work as AAA, where you get to see the characters interact with each other and the world. That doesn't work when your character is the size of thumbnail and rarely voiced let alone animated.

You want to sell people on story, characters and narrative? Go AAA or go home.

>>377414934
And motb sucks at it.

A short game which had obvious missing pieces didn't sell well. Go figure

>>377414846
>No. Role playing is. Which means how much C&C is there,
So AoD is the best rpg of all time.

>>377414624
What the fuck are you even on about. Deus Ex is an RPG and that's all there is to it. Try to get over the walls of Castle Clinton without Microfibral Muscle. Try to knock out an MJ12 Commando without Combat Strength and melee. Or try to hack a Turret without investing in hacking. You'll face a brick fucking wall because your build doesn't have the right tools.

>>377415294
You're a retard, stop posting.

>>377415456

How is he wrong? Have you even played the game?

>>377400128
I just came here to shill the fact DivOS2 is going to have a GM mode and its going to be literally the best vidya RPG platform of all time.

>>377400940
What he is trying to say is

> I am 30+
>I cant identify with teens and 20 smt
>REeeeeeeeeee

IT is a little pathetic but the gaming industry has grown a lot. Many jaded 30smt gamers feel Bad about the state of games.

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>>377413161
>you are playing role of Doomguy
>not RPG

>>377400432
GO FUCKING PLAY DIVINITY ORIGINAL SIN

IT'S THE BEST DAMN CRPG IN YEARS

>>377415727
>actually implements coop gameplay for a party-based RPG
>now implements GM mode, which hopefully implies scenario creation and not just putting some fag in charge of the enemies
See, these developers actually understand the tabletop experience.

>>377415032
>That doesn't work when your character is the size of thumbnail and rarely voiced let alone animated.
But it worked great in P:T

>>377400432

Divinity: Original Sin

It's so good

>>377415727
>>377416117
Thats reminds me, doesn't D:OS have an editor? I never saw enyone discussing it.

>>377416343
Divinity Original Sin 2 does. It has a full on dungeon master mode.

>>377416186
Not initially, only over the years and only because people weren't expecting anything more than text on a screen. Torment is more of a VN than a CRPG anyway.

>>377410164
RTwP games predate Biowaste's Bladder's Gate. Darklands is RTwP as well, but just like in BG fashion, it's a complete clusterfuck and the combat sucks ass.

>>377411987

t. Soul eater

Everything else is better than the trite OC but this feature can fuck off

>>377416343
D:OS vanilla, not the enhanced edition, had a map editor but it lacked many features and was apparently way too fucking difficult to use so it never really became popular. I'm guessing Larian took what they learned from that release and used it in OS2's GM mode which may or may not be just as underwhelming as the original game's feature. We'll have to wait and see.

>>377408826
the environmental interaction shit (oil, fire, poison, water, frost, all that shit) was cool but overdone to the extreme in D:OS

should have been used less, would have made the regular fights less gimmicky and made it more interesting when it appeared

>>377416717
The fact that it was always a best-case scenario made it boring. IE if you shoot an enemy in a poison cloud, you get the damage of your fireball, the damage of the cloud igniting, and probably the enemy being poisoned as well. There needs to be drawbacks, like losing the projectile if it detonates a cloud or having to fire directly at a puddle of oil to ignite it. Side-effects turn into more possible applications as opposed to just being free damage every single time.

>>377417145
Honestly the "gender equality" in PoE felt forced as fuck.

>>377417145
That armor looks nice though. I'm still glad we got Durance instead of her.

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tl;dr: Because he sucks at getting women in real life, he wants his characters to be as big of losers as he is (if he isn't a fag like Tim Cain)

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Well, the gay trans agenda is dying that is good.

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>>377417821
I wish I knew more about the lore of the pic on the right side

>>377417821
Holy shit, venezuela has some nice tits.

>>377416218
second this. Game can be hard as fuck but once you learn your shit you can pull off some really fun battles.

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>Forget fixing our bad story and dialogue - what needs to be fixed is this joke about trannies

Obsidians priorities are fucked

>>377412772
what's vtmb?

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>>377400128

>>377417821
holy shit big balls futa is real?

>>377417925

>can't google Venezuela

>>377417821
That's a puffy vulva.

> Make a CRPG with a bunch of SJW themes.

> People don't like it.

Who would have thought?

>>377417978
lmao how can you be so sensitive about a joke?

>>377418139
More like
>Make a CRPG with shitty two decade old gameplay
>Claim it's the super hardcore SPIRITUAL SUCCESSOR to two decade old titles that the average modern (c)RPG player hasn't even heard of
>Put no other thought into advertising it
>Get surprised when no one buys it

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>>377400128
>made by B-Team
>none of the depth their usual stuff has
>none of the choices their usual stuff has
>none of the authentic feeling characters their usual stuff has
>shit is basically dragon age/Mass effect in Isometric View
>WOW SURELY IT DIDNT SELL BECAUSE PEOPLE DONT LIKE RPGS ANYMORE

>>377418058
I googled Venezuela big tits in image search. Didn't get exactly what I was looking for but there was some nice shit.

>>377417978
>bad story and dialogue

thats a hot new meme you got there

>>377418375
But a PoE sold quite well.

>>377418610
POE has one of the worst endings I've seen in an RPG

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>twf still no crpg based on FATAL

>>377418919
Original donut, no stealing.

i liked tyranny over poe
the leveling up of artifacts was kinda cool

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>>377412561
Your irrelevant shit opinion sucks.

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>>377418919
She was a pretty neat companion

They jacked up the price for Tyranny in Russia for some reason.

>>377418843
No, it doesn't. You not liking it does not make it bad, it just makes your opinion that of a contrarian shit-eater.

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>>377419314
You know what else got 8's and 90's?

Dragon Age 2

>>377419403
>for some reason
Thats because russian currency felt hard after Crimea and oil crash.

>>377419509
We're not talking about bought reviews here, shitstain, we're talking about Steam reviews aka the only reviews that actually matter, because they cannot be bombed or bought and represent the actual satisfaction level of the game's target audience.

I know it's hard to deal with the fact that your name is nobody and your opinion is worth less than the dogshit under your boot, but that's just how life is, kiddo.

>>377419509
>play BG2:EE instead

loooooooool

>>377419668
Price was jacked up like yesterday m8, it's almost double the price that it was before.

Does a shitty game not selling really need 3 parts?
It isn't rocket science.

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>>377418843
ok

>>377407976
being evil in mask of the betrayer is pretty satisfying

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>>377419509
>Play BG2: EE instead

Your shit opinions are legitimately embarrassing.

>>377420014
>Does a shitty game not selling really need 3 parts?
It's butt-blasted potatodrones or weebcucks throwing a shitfit, nothing new, really. The fact that Tyranny sold like trash was known to people with a brain ages ago, because they could look up Steam Spy sale numbers.

I'm a huge PoE and Obsidian fan and when I see such threads, I don't even feel the urge to defend Obsidian apart from throwing a lazy sales graph or an insult here or there, because these threads almost entirely consist of retards presenting their shit opinions as facts.

>>377420018
Busting out the Neogaf image, eh?

>>377419803
Oh, that's because of a new tax probably.

>>377420324
>The fact that Tyranny sold like trash was known to people with a brain ages ago, because they could look up Steam Spy sale numbers.

No you faggot - what's interesting is that Paradox blames CRPGs rather than admitting Obsidian made a bad game.

>I'm a huge PoE and Obsidian fan

lmao

>>377420014

It's 3 packages, not 3 parts. We can thank the publishers for that.

>Normal edition: Just the game
>Deluxe edition: the game plus the game's soundtrack for an extra $10
>$100 Overpriced Collector's edition: the game, the soundtrack AND an avatar you can use on the developer's forums!

then you have the WB variation where they rip shit out of the base game to put it into the higher priced packages like they do with Bamham. gotta buy that $100 edition to get all of Batman's outfits and challenge mode maps!

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>>377420357
Not an argument.

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>>377420465
>what's interesting is that Paradox blames
>whats interesting is that another Publisher has terrible Publisher-opinions unlike those other Publishers

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>>377420447
Nope, it's the raw price that increased, look at this.

>>377420723
Than I have no explanation.

>>377420723
Has the west's hate for Russia gone so far that they are finally stripping them of their snowflake low prices even if it means they won't buy the game?

>>377420952
>snowflake low prices

You do realize those prices are pretty high in Russia right?

>>377420721
>When you're this much of an Obsidicuck

>>377421254
Those prices are fucking great. Just ask any Eastern European country unfortunate enough to be buttfucked by standard EU prices.

>>377400432
I think the reason why real time with pause still stays around, besides nostalgia, is that turn based combat generally turns people off of games unless you are Pokemon. It has a stigma of being slow and boring. This way, casuals can turn the game to easy and auto battle everything while feeling smart when they select skills.

I personally can't stand real time with pause in anything other than KOTOR. The rules of D&D also lend themselves much better to SRPGs.

>>377403724
I like how EC shat over pacifists so hard.

>bandits are stealing our supplies!
>don't kill them or my pacifist soldiers will get angry
Now I truly understand why expeditions always ended with lots of dead natives.

>>377421274
>When you have no comeback to getting BTFO

>>377422794
Keep dreaming

Tyranny was shit. PoE was great, though.

>>377424131
Keep crying

>>377419314
>88% of steam users are cucks

Huh.

>>377412548
>combat
I'd replace Witcher with Planescape.

>>377400432
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=919074990

or you know maybe it's because when they make these new CRPGs, they just copy the old formula whole sale as if it were perfect and don't bother trying to make the gameplay more engaging or fix balance issues that were common with them back then

pillars of eternity for example was a fucking chore to play

>>377400128

People have already covered a lot of the reasons why Tyranny flopped but I want to reiterate that a lot of people lost faith in Obsidian because PoE just wasn't that good. Not because that mode of gameplay is archaic or whatever that arrogant article tries to say, but because it had a boring world, dull characters (except the two Avellone-made ones) and confusing, counterintuitive mechanics.

>>377400128
anyone who caters to what you pieces of shit like should get shot in the head

>>377427412
I didn't like PoE but tyranny is genuinely enjoyable. I also think the Avellone characters were the only worthwhile ones in PoE

>>377422529
I cannot stand real time with pause and it's what's keeps me away from CRPGs in general. I suffered through it for Dragon Age Origins and I really just don't understand why it keeps coming back.

Turn-based is just a superior system. It makes sense, it's more entertaining. Real time with pause is an incoherent mess in comparison.

>>377419314

PoE got inflated reviews for the same reason Fallout 3 got: people were desperate for another "Baldur's Gate type game" and rated it based more on their hopes and dreams than actual reality. Games that come after it (New Vegas, Tyranny) don't receive the same silk-gloves treatment because people no longer desperately need them to be good.

>>377428009
>Turn-based is just a superior system
Matter of preferences, I enjoy both.

>>377428009
>It makes sense
>turn based combat
WTF am I reading?

>>377400429
i've never had bao dur die, what are you talking about

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>>377417683
>ABLOO ABLOO THIS GAME DOESN'T PLAY LIKE MY CHINESE VISUAL NOVEL ABLOO ABLOO

That's how you sound faggot.

>>377401862
does it have the original story and stuff from the first one or is this like a sequel or something
i've been interested in playing mb for years since i liked tsukihime and kagetsu tohya

>>377428236
You pick your commands one by one and they play out one by one in an orderly fashion, whereas with real time with pause, you pause the game, look at the situation for a moment and try to figure out what exactly is going on and who is doing what, assign all your party members a command, unpause, and repeat.

The fact that you need to pause in the first place should be proof enough that it's sort of a mess. The pause part allows you to stop the action for a moment and get your bearings because everything is happening at once.

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>I think I'd like to discuss RPGs with /v/

>mfw RPG ""fans""

these threads are always terrible

>>377401613
>aa2
kek

>>377428009
>is an incoherent mess
Translation: it's to complex for my brains.

>>377428494
Thank you for your contribution

>>377400128
I just want a game that plays like Arcanum, with an intricate world and plenty of well thought out NPCs, with all the bells and whistles from modern gaming.


Is that so much to ask?

>>377428478
For a movent I thought that you mean realism.
>The fact that you need to pause in the first place should be proof enough that it's sort of a mess
I don't see how.
>The pause part allows you to stop the action for a moment and get your bearings because everything is happening at once.
It's mostly to save time on commands.

>>377428563
no problem friend. I'd love to hear your opinions on why absolutely everything is shit

>>377428585
There is a reason why Troika flopped.

>>377428754
???

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>Crowd funded game
>failed

Nah, the people who funded it got the game they funded. Any extra sales are a bonus.

>>377428808
It involves short men with big noses

>>377428014
If your statement was true, White March would had like abysmally low numbers of sales.

>>377428905
Tyranny wasn't crowdfounded.

>>377411893
It's okay to like visual novels anon, maybe AoD can open your way to seeing some better entries in that genre

>>377428905
Tyranny was published by Paradox, no crowdfunding was involved

>>377428905
doesnt even matter, the crowfunding is just a way for established companies that cant handle finances a way to keep developing their shit.
the extra sales outside of the crowdfund are the necessity for a success

>>377429128
I do actually like visual novels, but I can't think of a single one that'd be even remotely on the level of AoD in storytelling. AoD has great combat too, and the C&C is too complex and dynamic to be visual novelly.

>>377407913
>killing Sis
not cool man

Obsidian? What Obsidian?
Half of the team that's been working on NV isn't working there anymore.
Fucking Avellone is not working at Obsidian anymore.
New hires are all hilariously incompetent and haven't had a single original thought in their life. Creative control belongs to the dullest motherfucker in the industry.
Move over, folks, it's dead.

>>377400128
Todd Howard made that game?

>>377429956
avellone is working with larian and the system shock remakers, right? and the ps:t enchanced edition

>>377412114
The loot system it had was a huge carrot on a stick.