Tyranny Didn't Sell: Part 2

Tbqh Tyranny was REALLY poorly marketed.
I think Tides of Numenera and Original Sin sold well, didn't they?

>>377390698
Never trust kikestarter. We've learned that producers actually stop a lot of bullshit dev processes

JUST

REMINDER THAT NOTHING OBSIDIAN HAS EVER MADE OR EVER WILL MAKE CAN SURPASS KOTOR 2

>>377391198
You're missing a word.

>Shadowrun and Divinity update cRPGs with modern gameplay advancements
>Obsidian churns out the same trash from 20 years ago

It's a good thing that the nostalgia bubble is dying. It's what's holding the genre back.

>>377390698
Paradox can go fuck themselves. The marketing on Tyranny was abysmal, people just did not know about the game. And even people who were anticipating the game were genuinely expecting it to be a B-level project. Expecting 300-400k+ sales is a fuckup from their sales team and executives.

Obsidian can go fuck themselves, too. Growing to such a large company with several hundreds of employees in one of the most expensive parts of the world is incompatible with not making shovelware.

Gaming "journos" and media can go fuck themselves as well. If you have around zero clue about the genre and just parrot nonsense that gives you streetcred, like it was with Numenera, you hurt the genre in the long run.

/v/ can also go fuck itself, because it would not touch an isometric turn-based (or even RTwP trash) with their expensive Switch controllers and PersonaStations.

I do not have to add to this that OP is a gigantic faggot.

>>377391118
>Tbqh Tyranny was REALLY poorly marketed.

Giving copies to streamers to cover CRPGs just doesn't work because these people will not help you with your target audience. Especially not when it clearly comes off like they're doing it for money.

>>377391015
>Dungeon crawler are the same genre as Wrpg

The Quest is literally a WRPG with tons of dungeon crawling.

Aka what Grimrock 2 should have been

>>377391263
Which is?

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>>377391314
>Aka what Grimrock 2 should have been
surely you mean this

>>377391332
It should be 'nothing (else) Obsidian has ever made'

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>>377391281
Obsidian's perpetual problem is they're still living from game to game as a company. It's not uncommon to fire dozens of people between projects for them because they fluctuate so much. Only studios that do this are MMORPG ones. You know things are bad when their CEO says he was hoping someone would buy Obsidian by this point so they can have it easier.

>>377390698
Jesus Christ, did literally every half-assed "spiritual successor" game have to kill the CRPG genre? For the love of god, if they had only just tried to keep up their effort they might have actually been good games.

>>377391314
>literally who: bad graphics edition is literally a WRPG with tons of dungeon crawling.
Good for him.
Legend of Grimrock always wanted to be the sequel of Dungeon Master. Not Fallout 2 in a dungeon.

>>377391198
Even then Kotor 2 had only its story going for it. Everything else sucked.

>>377391281
What a shock the evil publisher screwed Obsidian yet again.

Every
Fucking
Time

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>>377391485
They just don't understand that CRPGs will remain a niche if you pander to that IE audience. Divinity: Original Sin is an example of a modern CRPG that found its audience.

>>377390698
I like Obsidian game but those guy can never question themselves.
If larian is able to succeed twice and grow like they did maybe there is a market for CRPG after all and it's obsidian and Inxile who mess up.

>>377390698

tyranny was good, OP

>>377391587
>massive build variety
>ridiculous amount of possible solutions to quests
>straight improvement upon Kotor1's already good gameplay
???

>>377391118
Numenera sold like shit too.

Not to mention they've didn't implement what they promised during kickstarter.

And OS sold because it's and actual good game with good gameplay.

>>377391618
This just proves that TB >> RTWP.

>>377391552
>bad graphics edition

Says the game that can't animate human NPCs

>>377391118
Yeah OS sold well. First CRPG I've played in a long while and I'm looking forward to the second one

>>377391728
maybe because there wasn't human NPC in Dungeon Master.

>>377391697
Yeah, but it's a CRPG nonetheless. You can't say CRPG died, just because a couple of new games didn't sell.

>>377391606

boy, there must be some common denominator tying all these failures together. if only we could figure out what it is

>>377391618
Haven't played it yet. How's it like?

>>377391118
Torment did poorly at 100k, but can fall back on being a Kickstarter funded game:

http://steamspy.com/app/272270

Original Sin crossed into the 1.3 million threshold:

http://steamspy.com/app/230230

>>377391707
It's also prove that marketing your game on the gameplay and not on "diversity" bring more sale.
And also that being honest with your backer prevent any backlash

>>377391198
>MAKE CAN SURPASS KOTOR 2

>What is MOTB??

>>377390698
it had a kickstarter, who cares?

this is like a youtuber with a $12k patreon complaining cause his video got 30k views.

>>377391681
>ridiculous amount of possible solutions to quests
>improvement of boring one-attack per turn gameplay
u wot m8

>>377391448

obsidians problem is that they're incompetent on just about every level

Tyranny fucking sucked. It was (barely) marketed as a game where you can be the villain, the biggest asshole in the army of assholes and instead they went with "muh grey morality". I was very disappointed.

Fuck off with this nonsense already.
Tyranny flopped because it was trash. All the good games were praised and sold well, and all those millions gathered for Deadfire indicate that the market for such games is still quite alive

>>377391763
So they're just gonna live in the past and keep making Gone Homo: The Dungeon Crawler?

>>377391773
CRPGs have never been more diverse then now, I'll give you that. And I don't mean this SJW bullshit but in terms of finding whatever particular flavor you want. Age of Decadence, Pillars of Eternity and Serpent in the Staglands are all CRPGs yet radically different from one another, for example.

>>377391889
>one attack per turn
>I haven't played it

>>377391874
>Tyranny
>kickstarter

I have some bad news for you. It was funded by Paradox, though.

They overestimated the people that actually spend money on these games. Ya sure people bought and loved those old games. But the market is different and there is a reason why those games died out.

>>377391918
not everything have to be Morrowind, you know?
>Gone Homo: The Dungeon Crawler
how sad can you be?

Stop forcing your anti-crpg agenda. Tyranny was bad but PoE was a good game and PoE 2 will be even better.

>>377391304
>Giving copies to streamers to cover CRPGs just doesn't work because these people will not help you with your target audience.

How else would they market it?

>PLAY TRUE EVIL oh wait no not really lol
>MEET INTERESTING CHARACT- lmao
>MAKE CHOICES THAT WILL EFFECT THE GAME except even Telltale advertises choices now

Real Time games are utter trash.

>>377390698
>THE MARKET BUBBLE ON CRPGS IS DEAD AND WE KILLED IT WITH OUR BAD GAMES
Nope

The savior of RPGs is coming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj9cPK2_qKU

>A video game that 100% recreates the power of TT

>>377391587
The music, companions and writing were all great, and the gameplay is fun, a strict improvement over the original game, and offers a lot of build variety.

>>377391889
>not taking any combat feats or buffs on a combat-focused character
Did you expect to talk and sneak your way through the game like Arcanum?

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>>377391982
That's like saying Zelda should never be open world because older Zelda games weren't

If you're gonna make an atmospheric game about escaping a prison/dungeon, don't make its sequel a... atmospheric game about escaping an island.

>>377392008
It's not that. I barely even knew the game was even being made. And I only learned that from seeing a few threads on /v/ shortly before release. And even then it didn't make me care enough to learn more about the game.

I mean they should've did more with advertising to at least just grab people's attention, to inform the game actually exists.

>>377392261
Zelda IS a serie
Grimrock was made with Dungeon Master in mind in the first place. It was always the point.

>>377392287
>I don't follow a companies YouTube or Twitter presence, so its their fault for not jamming the information into my brain through my implanted wifi connection

Retard lmao

>>377391896
Their saving grace was "Muh Writin"
They let all the talented writers go.

They will soon join the Mt Rushmore of failed RPG studios.

Troika,BIS and soon Obsidian.

>>377392325
So they made Dungeon Master 3 and it didn't sell

I mean the fact that they didn't spend money to animate characters or make an economy with a shop system makes me ask: Where did the money go?

>>377392223
To be honest I love d&d but can't ever see myself using GM mode. But maybe I'm wrong and it will actually be fun. But seems like more work than for what you would get out of it. Prefer to use my imagination.

That said, the game itself is great.

>>377392376
You're right, I don't use social media.
But they could've at least make some deals with the major gayming journalism magazines and sites to get a better coverage. You know, the traditional marketing.

>>377392457
Except Obsidian never made anything as good as Arcanum, Vampire Bloodlines, Fallout, Icewind Dale, etc

>>377392457
A shame about the other two. Obsidian would be their Roosevelt.

>>377392465
>and it didn't sell
but the sales were great, what the fuck are you smoking?

>>377392223
>Game Master Mode
>A video game that 100% recreates the power of TT
I'm pretty sure NWN1 already had that.

>>377392493
Assuming you have someone to GM, and you download a preexisting map there really shouldnt be too much to worry about.

It really is just D&D but on your computer. The GM can do anything you would expect.

I guess technically you're limited to the combat system to some extent, but the GM can intervene to do whatever you want. One girl in that demo wanted to kick a goblin off a roof, even though there is no ability to do so, so the GM made her roll for it and she was successful so the GM just knocked the gobbo off the roof for her.

The only good recent "classic" is Age of Decadence.

In fact, I would argue it's better than Baldur's Gate and the likes.

You truly can talk your ass out of any situation, and the combat is legit addictive if you play a combat build.

Obsicuck is trash.

>>377392539
Don't worry nostalgia will kick in in about 5 years and people will pine for the flawed gems like Tyranny and Numenera.

>>377392608
Yeah but that game is old and dead desu

This will have a lot more support

It's like the devs forgot there was a reason CRPGs died out in the first place.

Protip: the CRPG "system" sucks ass and always did. The most beloved games in the genre, such as Planescape Torment, are liked DESPITE being isometric CPRGs, not because of it. The only ones who actually want isometric CRPGs are blind nostaliga-fags who were satisfied with Pillars of Eternity and will probably never touch these games again.

So he's right, it was a fad. The only reason people tolerated shit CRPG back in the day was because there was no other competition for deep story-based RPGs.

>>377392678
People get nostalgic over games that were actually good for their time you underaged retard. Nobody will pine for Tyranny and Numenera because they are trash today.

Good, stop working on this shit and do something with the vampire licence already.

>>377392795
But Fallout 1+2 are good.

But I agree despite lol story and YOU CAN DO EVERYTHING, JRPG are better.

>>377392795
>Protip: the CRPG "system" sucks ass and always did. The most beloved games in the genre, such as Planescape Torment, are liked DESPITE being isometric CPRGs, not because of it.
Retard.

>>377392662
>game is filled with arbitrary skill checks that lead to unavoidable death on failure

>>377392795
Do you mean the DnD inspired rules or the viewpoint of the game?

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>>377392885
>JRPG are better.

>>377392909
Torment would have been better as an FPS and you know it

>>377392954
>arbirtary skill check
>unavoidable
Please point to me some?

>>377392954
CYOA with stats is the pinnacle of gameplay you pleb

>>377392885
F1 and 2 were good because they ditched the "classic" CRPGs combat systems for XCOM's. It's a far better one that's still popular today.

>>377392973
To this date, no WRPG come close to Suikoden 2 in term of war story.

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>>377392974
>What can change the nature of a man, mortal?

>>377393059
You haven't a clue what you're talking about.

>>377392819
Explain the love for Bloodlines then.
Was shit on release and needed it's fans to fix it.
It was never a good game but it is beloved by oldtimers.

>>377393084
to this date, no wrpg come close to Shinshentokigagawa in term of weeb story romance.

>>377392909
>>377392974
Torment would have been better if it's has a JRPG battle system.

Clicking shit until it dies is not good gameplay.

>>377392974
>>377393087
you may be joking but RPGs work fine in 1st person, as Deus Ex demonstrated.

But if we're talking about the best form factor for RPGs it has to be 3ds person. My favorite would Mass Effect 1 style.

>>377393154
Hmm, really make me think.

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>>377393128
Not him but I liked Fallout 1 & 2 for its simple action gameplay

Just gorey and satisfying slug exchanges.

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>>377392678
Nobody will care just like nobody cares about this infiniti engine turd.

>>377393207
>as Deus Ex demonstrated
You mean as System Shock demonstrated.

>>377393128
The DnD rules.

Suck.

>>377393084
To this date, no JRPG come close to Fallout 2 in therm of post apocalypse nuclear war story.

>>377393274
>Fallout 1 & 2
>action gameplay

>>377393285
You mean as Ultima Undercuck demonstrated

>>377393285
You mean as Terminator demonstrated.

>>377393153
I can't other that the fact that it's unique and somewhat open-ended. Overrated for sure.

>>377391707
RTwP is pure cancer. Turn based is far superioir but even pure action is superior to the heaping shitpile that is RTwP.

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>>377393357
you mean as Fantasy World Dizzy demonstrated.

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>>377393297
Wrong baby boi.

>>377393341
I mean I'm not sure what else to call it, because it wasn't like Wizardry or Final Fantasy. Fallout 1 & 2 were satisfying in ways I haven't seen since them.

>>377393207
I was half-joking and half curious to see what and FPS Torment would actually look like. I know role-playing isn't confined to isometrics.

>>377393429
>b-but muh music!
fuck off

>>377393274
>>377393445
It's really Jagged Alliance-ish, as in you pump skill point into certain skill to get good at it and you get a shitload of guns, with range of sight, reload mechanics, different ammo.

>>377393502
>but muh 50s reference
Fuck off nigger.

>>377393447
Thief but more undead.

>>377393568
But just the ways people would split in half, or gib, or whatever. I was gonna say maybe Baldur's Gate and when they'd explode and their bodies would still shake after.

>>377393568
none of that shit matters when the endgame is just a test of who has the highest luck stat to get a crit first

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>>377391623
>Larian
>has existed for decades
>made a cult classic
>owned up to its mistakes with Beyond Divinity
>apologized for the state of Divinity 2 Ego Draconis by completely remastering the game with the expansion pack
>were realistic and honest with their first kickstarter
>kept everyone updated about everything
>remastered DivOS based on fan feedback

>Obsidian
>riding on the coattail of Black Isle/Interplay
>all their games have been buggy messes
>always blaming everyone but themselves
>never addressed any of the glaring issues of PoE during development
>had Avelone on board but scrapped most of his work to the point he left the company
>keeps hiring incompetent retards because they have pink hair/are politically liberal/are genderqueer mindbenders/wrote erotic novels to direct and develop their games

>>377392795
100% correct although the people replying to you so far have got to be universally 90 IQ mouthbreathers or something

The failings of crpg's in ye olde distante past are largely:

UI sucks
Combat system sucks
Leveling system sucks and/or is unbalanced
Music sucks
Basically, everything but the writing sucks

And the solution from modern devs was to copy everything that sucked, and then the one part that didn't suck, they decided to replace. I mean, it should've been painfully obvious to these people they were fucking up, but apparently it wasn't and here we are.

I fully expect more games from various devs that are going to copy this formula of copying all the parts that sucked and replacing all the parts that didn't suck with new parts that will probably suck.

It'd be nice if maybe these people could try stealing ideas that were actually good. xcom had a great combat system, even nu-xcom is half decent. Hell even Age of decadence has a decent combat system and there's a billion varieties of good jrpg that have turn based combat, so why the fuck are we still doing real time with pause? How about presentation? UI? Where's the good music that actually fits with what's happening? The music should LITERALLY be written to fit the storyline, or the storyline written to fit with the music.

Okay so examples of games doing it right:
Endless Legend and Endless Space do simplistic and minimalist UI for retards right.
Halo copied fucking everyone and made one of the best selling shooters in history as a result.
Uncountable games even going back into literal antiquity do turn-based combat right. TAKE A HINT. You can't get more classical rpg than turn based combat systems that play like chess on steroids. Goddamn even Banner Saga did it well enough. Why can't you?
Halo again, this time with music. Halo series took it a step further than most and fit the music to the plot, story and emotion. Take a hint from Halo, your music is a story in itself, not background noise.

>>377393680
Luck stat doesn't matter though, I would say dexterity is most important.

>>377393687
This is painfully accurate.

>>377393702
But your solution is to remove everything good about CRPGs and make them Fallout 4

>>377393628
>A game about post apocalypse after the cold war have 50s reference
woah

>>377393687
And in Larian case they really got fuck by publisher.

>turn based combat
>fallout 4

the fuck are you smoking

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>>377393897
Actually, a Cold War post-apoc game doesn't need to have 50s reference.

>>377393820
Say what you will. Bethesda's gameplay changes to the franchise was a step in the right direction. They just need to get better writers and put back some of the role-playing aspects they took out and it will be fucking perfect.

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>>377393687
It's funny because DOS is pretty much the game Larian always wanted to make. Divine Divinity, beyond a silly name, also had action combat mandated by the publisher because Diablo was big at the time. Not to say Larian isn't also guilty of shit like, for example, throwing Dragon Commander under the bus so they can develop DOS further, though. At least they were open about it.

>>377392638
Yes I know. I DM pretty regularly.
I guess what I meant was using it as a DMing tool for several games. It would require a lot of work to keep using it for a homebrew adventure. Wouldn't likely be worth it.

If you just want to play through a module and use it for those purposes, it will likely be pretty fun.

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>>377393687
>>Obsidian

Replace all that you said on the Obsidian side and just put this image there

>>377393905
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-Nq9_X68os

>>377393981
>muh tits
like a clockwork

>>377393990
>Bethesda's gameplay changes to the franchise was a step in the right direction.

Absolutely. If you want to stop making RPGs.

>>377394016
Is there a way to kill this bitch ingame? No matter what I do, fucker always run away if I beat the bitch.

>>377393994
I wonder when they are gonna announce their other 2 projects beside OS 2.

>>377394016
I forgot how fucking cringey this was.

>>377391332
A word is a single distinct meaningful element of speech or writing, used with others (or sometimes alone) to form a sentence and typically shown with a space on either side when written or printed, but that's not important right now.

>>377390698
Tyranny didn't sell because everyone new it was Obsidian's side game that Obsidian didn't give two fucks about, since everyone with a name was laboring on PoE2 at that time. PoE sold amazingly (a million only on Steam with who knows how many copies on GoG) and PoE2 will sell even better, because it's an improvement in every area and the RPG playerbase was very satisfied with PoE as shown by the Steam ratings.

>>377393990
You don't know what you're talking about. The problems with the writing in Fallout 4 and Skyrim/Oblivion are intrinsic to how the games are designed to the point that they can't be fixed by just getting different writers. And if you want them to put the role-playing elements back in, well Bethesda took them out for a reason. You can't simultaneously praise developers for simplifying their games to reach a wide audience and then tell them to make their games more complex again.

>>377391198
Daily reminder that Kreia is avellone's garbage self insert made to bitch about the setting in a way that you could not disagree with because Avellone won't let you disagree with his villain mary sue without looking like a dribbling retard

>>377394236
>everyone new
*everyone knew

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>>377393153
Bloodlines is well-written, extremely well voice-acted and has a fun gameplay. Sure, the gameplay is not incredible but any game that let's me shoot vampires in the face with a shotgun in slowmotion and make people explode into bits of gore with vampire magic is fun as far as I'm concerned.

Also, bloodlines has atmosphere, character and is immersive like no other, it makes you feel like you're a vampire in late 90s LA. That's why bloodlines is such a cult classic.

>>377394236
Shilliest shill post I've ever seen and I don't know if it's ironic or not.

>>377392701
Old, yes. Dead, no. People are still making stuff for it.

>>377390698
BASED GOOKS
DESTROYING THE WESTAKEKS PRECIOUS KEKRPGS

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>>377394327
Plus how many vampire focused RPGs are there?

>>377392608
>I'm pretty sure NWN1 already had that.
Not only NWN1, but NWN2 with mods as well. Sword Coast legends had a GM mode as well. Fact is NOBODY uses this shit apart from some 3.5 masochists, because people actually interested in PnP play actual PnP, not a cheap imitation.

>>377394327
>Bloodlines is well-written
Yeah if you're fourteen and really into urban vampires and shit

Tyranny as a game is fucking ugly to look at.

if Obsidian can make game with Fallout NV tier of world design and graphics, it will sell.

>>377394121
One is Divinity 3 obviously.

>>377394278
How would making them turnbased isometric rpgs improve them?

>>377390698
Tyranny?
MORE LIKE TRANNY

>>377394459
They're far too gone to ever make something on par with FNV again.

Y'all need to play VTM: Redemption.

God tier dialogs, shit's fucking Shakespearean.

>>377394283
Game should've given me an option to call out Kreia on her bullshit.

>>377394463
You must be replying to the wrong post because I didn't say they should be made isometric. You are putting words in my mouth because you can't accept how your argument is contradicting itself.

>>377394516
Why not just suck Beth's cock and re-use the engine?

>>377394556
Pretty much one of the only classic games I'd ever consider a real magnum opus.

>>377391118
OS sold well but it was an actually good game. Numenera sold pretty badly, and rightfully so. Tyranny was pretty mediocre too.

>>377394503
This joke got old before you were born.

>>377394624
They have been infiltrated by the SJWs. It is too late for them.

>>377394632
It's not a joke. Tranny was the actual working title I believe.

>>377394461

Hopefully it'll be like Divinity 2

>>377391707
more like it proves dumbed down mechanics = more $$$

>>377394556
Gameplay sucks though.

Why do people keep bringing up marketing?

You can't polish and sell a turd (unless the audience you're selling the game to are idiots like No Man's Sky or Watch_Dogs)

I didn't buy Grimrock 2 despite loving Grimrock 1 because it looked like the exact same game.

>>377391129
Tranny wasn't kickstarted, though.

>>377391198
Daily reminder that New Vegas and Mask of the Betrayer exist.

>>377394629
Indeed.
>>377394687
Are there any american devs who are free of this leftist bullshit?

>>377394556
I really enjoyed Redemption, but arguably it's more of a JRPG than a WRPG. The main character is (mostly) defined and the player has few opportunities where he can give input on his personality.

>>377394629
>>377394556
You are both contrarian shit-eaters. I've played the game from start to finish and it's utter dogshit. It's a linear corridor h&s shitfest; I should have just watched the cutscenes on fucking youtube.

>>377394762
>I didn't buy Grimrock 2 despite loving Grimrock 1 because it looked like the exact same game.
Well it wasn't. This is why marketing is important. So people don't get the wrong idea.

>>377394283
Avellone loves Star Wars.

>>377394447
Come on, for a video game about vampires? It's well done.

>>377394743
Can be improved via mod i.e. Age of Redemption.

Feels good to turn feral claws and rip everything up, not needing weapons.

>>377394772
New Vegas can't be good for the sole reason that the gameplay is pretty much copied wholesale from Fallout 3 which is the worst Bethesda has to offer.

>>377394692
What the fuck are you on

>>377389024
> WoW: The RPG
You know that this is basically a signed confession that you don't know jack shit about 4e and you're trying to pass ancient shitposting as an argument? 4e had massive flaws and introduced new design directions, some of which made it completely unpalatable for me, but as a game it was an improvement over 3e in every single way. It was a broken game that needed refluffing instead of redesigning and could be fixed with 30 lines of houserules instead of 30 pages.

>>377394805
But it was

>B-but muh open world!

You mean the empty grass dungeon? LOG1 mods were already doing that

>>377394804
gr8 b8 m8

>>377394804
Shut your whore mouth. Stats actually matter and it actually has different endings.
>>377394797
Who gives a shit, it's a WRPG because it's made by the West.

>>377391789
It's the publishers. Pillars of Eternity was great and largely publisher-free. Tyranny was trash but that's because it had a trash writer on board, not going to make any excuses for that one.

>>377394865
KotOR 2 gameplay is pretty much copied wholesale from KotOR 1, which was the worst Bioware had to offer.

>>377394843
Sorry dude but VTMB is the The Fast and The Furious of vampire media

>>377394956
>Mass Effect
>Dragon Age
?

>>377394838
Surely that's why he wrote a character he admits was his own mouthpiece to bitch about the fundamentals of the setting and get them wrong

>>377394865
Shooting shit up in NV is actually fun though.

But yeah, if only NV has STALKER-tier gunplay and enemy responsiveness.

>>377394948
>PoE
>Great
Hahahaha!

>>377394940
>Who gives a shit
Anyone who cares about the genre.

The point is that Redemption offers few role playing opportunities to the player - and that is important to anyone who likes RPGs.

>>377394948
>Pillars of Eternity was great and largely publisher-free.

It was not.

>>377394972
>I still owe you a 10 second bloodsuck

>>377394972
>>377394447
This is new. /v/ is full of hipsters but you're trying to be the hipster to /v/'s hipster.

>>377394926
>You mean the empty grass dungeon
No, you didn't even play it so just stop talking about shit you don't know

>>377394972
Modern F&F is cuhrazy distilled to the purest form possible with live action film. If you don't like that get out of my face

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>>377394948
>Pillars of Eternity was great

>>377394772
I personally didn't like new Vegas because I ended up walking all the way to New Vegas by accident. I didn't watch my map either I figured I was just wandering around randomly. I was disappointed when I found it because it felt like it didn't take any time to actually get there. Back in Fallout 3 I could wander around there lost for an exuberant amount of time. It took me a long time to find that boat/city, for just one example.

>>377395004
She's a leftover character from either Planescape Torment or Mask of the Betrayer that he retooled for the Star Wars setting.

>>377395030
I give a shit about the genre and Redemption is one of the best games, lore, aesthetics and voice acting wise.

RPG is more than choices and consequences.

Not to mention, if you want role playing opportunities, you could hook up the storyteller system (multiplayer) and create your scenario.

>>377394998
All better.

FO3 has better combat than Morrowind, Oblivion, probably Skyrim too. Shooty combat is just easier to make.

>>377395017
Vanilla STALKER gunplay is trash.
>enemy responsiveness
Enemies repeating the same old hit animation when you hit them?

>>377395073
Modern F&F is shit because they keep focusing on people I don't give a fuck about.

They picked the wrong bald dude to be the MC, shoulda been Dwayne or Statham

CRPG's are mostly good on paper, but they get tedious and frustrating once you're 2 hours in, when you realize they're just D&D campaings designed by an asshole DM that wants your head rolling through the floor in each battle. Encounters are intense as fuck because you know you have 90% chance of fucking it up every time if you're not playing the exact build you're supposed to, not because the combat system is creative or tacticool.

The most fun aspect of these games is building personalities for you characters and finding clever ways to solve certain conflicts, but sooner or later you get to an unavoidable fight with too much shit going on at the same time you have to pause or save scum the fuck out of the game.

>>377391618
I couldn't get into DOS at all though, the game was so fucking boring, even if the combat was kind of fun.

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>>377395132
I can't figure out which part of your post is the most retarded. Please die or get out of this hobby.

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Western garbage deserves to crash and burn.

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>>377395069
Except I did eventually play it when I got a humble bundle and I was wholly unimpressed, as it used the same tricks from the first game (ITS A LONELY ATMOSPHERIC [insert DUNGEON/ISLAND/SHOPPING MALL] WITH NOBODY AROUND! NO THIS ISN'T US BEING CHEAP SO WE DON'T HAVE TO ANIMATE PEOPLE AND BE THE RPG EQUIVALENT OF GONE HOME OR DEAR ESTHER! THAT'S ABSURD!)

>>377395187
I want to lick her cunny

>>377395132
>FO3 has better combat than Morrowind, Oblivion, probably Skyrim too. Shooty combat is just easier to make.
I don't recall Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim having to emphasize using an autoaim mode for their bows because they were so clunky to use you couldn't hit anything firing them normally.

>>377395132
>Vanilla STALKER gunplay is trash.
Disagree, on master it's good.
>Enemies repeating the same old hit animation when you hit them?
As opposed to not at all?

>>377395212
>THE RPG EQUIVALENT OF GONE HOME OR DEAR ESTHER!
You have a mental disorder

>>377395212
>97 hours in LoG
What the hell man.

>>377395132
not even Bethesda will tell you FO3's combat is good
VATS exists for a reason

>>377394972
You make it sound like that's a bad thing. The Fast and The Furious is awesome, self-aware fun.

>>377395116
>I give a shit about the genre and Redemption is one of the best games, lore, aesthetics and voice acting wise.
I don't even disagree with you, the point however is that none of this is characteristic of RPGs. Lore, aesthetics and voice acting can be well done in literally any genre. Any Call of Duty fan will tell you that Modern Warfare has great lore, aesthetics and voice acting - yet that doesn't make Modern Warfare a good RPG.

What I'm saying is that Redemption is mechanically weak. It offers few role playing opportunities and the combat system is fairly simplistic and completely falls apart once you gain access to Theft of Vitae from the Tome of Blood Magic.

I liked the game, but that's how it is. Bloodlines is in terms of RPG-related game mechanics the more advanced game.

>>377395274
Says the guy defending LOG2

>>377395282
Mods and modding

>>377394838
he loves everything he's being paid to work for. Reading his current spiel about Paizo and Pathfinder now that he's working on the Pathfinder RPG sounds more like an advertisement than what a real person would genuinely say.

Here's an excerpt:

"I’m a Paizo fan, and a Pathfinder fan. I like the setting, the art style, the adventure paths, the card game, and the iconic characters. I’ve enjoyed playing Pathfinder with my friends (we used to be part of an Ocean’s-11 style game), and I’ve enjoyed the comics, the world, and the overall setting," said Chris Avellone.

Anyone who has played Pathfinder and has Pathfinder material knows that this is pure shilling.

>>377395157
On one hand I agree, Vin Family is a pretty weak actor in this series and the rest of the ensemble cast steals the show; on the other, it's his franchise, made by him, produced by his company, and part of me is compelled to cheer for a table nerd who struck gold and is making easy millions phoning in his role in a serial action franchise that I'm fine with him being a big part of it.

>>377395308
>The Fast and The Furious is awesome, self-aware fun.
Aka mindless trash for the working class peasants

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>>377395384
>>377395282
Also replaying LOG1 as Toorum

>>377395360
Well, at that point I care about a good game more than I care about a good RPG.

Few good RPG have the levels of lore and dialogs as Redemption.

>Bloodlines is in terms of RPG-related game mechanics the more advanced game.
But at a cost, weaker lore and plot overall.

So of these new RPGs, which are actually worth trying?

I liked the Shadowrun games a lot.

>>377395249
I never used VATS in NV. I never played FO3 for significant amount of time, either. It's a boring game that misses the point of Fallout.

>>377395264
>Disagree, on master it's good.
Master doesn't actually do things you probably think it does.
>As opposed to not at all?
FO3/NV have cripple animations which are just as clunky and ugly as the STALKER ones, except they have more gameplay significance.

>>377395298
It's not exactly good but it's better than fucking KotOR or Morrowind.

>>377395424
*tips ushanka*

>>377391118
This. I didn't even know what it was nor had any reason to care before this thread.

Bigger teams need actual marketing to sell their games.

>>377392376
They needed to get their game on news sites, trailers and all. I'd have heard about it through the grapevine in that case as I do nearly everything else.

Marketing is far more than "post trailer on YouTube, post trailer on Twitter". There are far too many companies and teams to follow that doing so either fills my feed with junk or otherwise becomes unwieldy. If they want their game to be known outside of niche media, they need to get multiple articles on sites like (god forbid) IGN, Gamespot, Polygon, etc.

>>377395419
I'm fine with F&F as long Vin uses his earning to make another Riddick movie.

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>>377395467
>I liked the Shadowrun games a lot.

Literally anything would appeal to you. Hell, play garbage like Dragon Age 2 because you have no standards

>>377395505
>not liking Kotor's combat
>liking FO3's
It's clear you just want your ebin slow motion gore explosions. Please fuck off.

>>377395538
That's for that balanced opinion.

I thought they were comfy and the cyberpunk aesthetic was appealing. One of my biggest problems with these new RPGs is that they're all fucking fantasy, fantasy is boring.

>>377391681
>ridiculous amount of possible solutions to quests

That's a bold faced lie, and I like both KOTORs.

>>377390698
I did not know this game existed until weeks after release, and from what I saw from people talking about the game it seemed so try hard edgy it turned me off from it.

>>377393084
JRPGs are severely lacking as RPGs. They rarely give the player the opportunity to define their characters' personalities, they rarely involve non-combat skills, stats/skill checks in dialogue (pretty much the most basic mechanic of RPGs), multiple solutions to quests, etc.

Not to mention that in terms of tactical combat mechanics they're often pretty boring and grindy - which is ironic because they hardly do anything else.

I even like the Japanese aesthetic, but gameplay wise JRPGs are simply dull.

>>377395598
Pirate and try Underrail - its setting will probably appeal to you, but I think it's total trash otherwise despite the praise

>>377395505
>Master doesn't actually do things you probably think it does.
Master kills you quick and let you kill quick.
>FO3/NV have cripple animations which are just as clunky and ugly as the STALKER ones, except they have more gameplay significance.
STALKER has way faster stun animation.

>>377395598
But cyberpunk is so original

>>377395658
because JRPG are based on old CRPG that were pure dungeon crawlers/genocide simulators

>>377395743
Name 5 good cyberpunk RPGs without including a Shadowrun title

>>377395459
>But at a cost, weaker lore and plot overall.
I don't think that's a cost of the better game mechanics.

Redemption could have had the mechanics of Bloodlines and Bloodlines could have had the lore and plot of Redemption.

>>377395658
They hardly do anything else because there's no need to do anything else.

They focus on telling a linear or multi-path stories instead of doing the YOU CAN DO EVERYTHING shit in cRPG, except you can never do eveyrthing in a programmed game.

And this is why RPG is better, they are tighter, more arcadey experience.

>I even like the Japanese aesthetic, but gameplay wise JRPGs are simply dull.
Gameplay-wise, as in the fucking battle system, JRPG absolutely trash WRPG.

>>377395658
>They rarely give the player the opportunity to define their characters' personalities
You want dialogue options then just say so

>>377395604
Go install TSLRCM and play through Nar Shaddaa.

Just do the entire Refugee Sector segment.
>kill the serroco and the exchange
>kill the serroco and convince Visquis to back off
>persuade the serroco to attack the exchange and weaken both
>persuade the serroco to back off
>persuade Visquis to back off
>kill Visquis to have the serroco relax
>convince the refugees to give in to the exchange
That's one fucking quest, and not even one you have to do.

>>377395779
Why are old CRPGs better then? Play a game like Realms of Arkania 2: Star Trail, and you find a much more elaborate game design than in the vast majority of JRPGs.

>>377395673
it's a good game for one guy but the gameplay systems and single person turn based combat are really jank.

>>377395781
Coulda shoulda

There are no perfect games that have perfect mechanics and super tight lore and plot.

None.

>>377395658
>JRPG
>Play a defined role
>WRPG
>Define how you play a role
There's your problem lad, you somehow ended up thinking JRPG and WRPG are the same genre but from different regions, while that's not entirely inaccurate it still misses the mark.

>>377395783
>They focus on telling a linear or multi-path stories
so a VN game with pisspoor combat and quest slapped on it.

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>>377390698
This thread is the first time I've heard about this game.

Maybe that's why it didn't sell well

>>377395842
>Why are old CRPGs better then?

Because they were derivatives of PnP. Current CRPGs are derivatives of games that were derivatives of PnP. The water keeps gets thinner.

>>377395814
>It needs a mod to be good

LMAO

Never want to hear this bullshit complaint about a Bethshitta game again

>>377395658
JRPG are not roleplay games. There's a reason for the J.

>>377395905
Considering JRPG has better combat and stories than WRPG, I don't think so.

>>377395783
>Gameplay-wise, as in the fucking battle system, JRPG absolutely trash WRPG.
Not only do JRPG's owe their combat system to WRPG's, but they have never even surpassed the originals.

>>377395783
>They hardly do anything else because there's no need to do anything else.
But they don't even do that well.

>They focus on telling a linear or multi-path stories instead of doing the YOU CAN DO EVERYTHING shit in cRPG
No CRPG promises that you can do everything. However, CRPGs at least allow you to somewhat explore your character's personality, not to mention that your character build actually matters in not having every character be able to do everything because his stats and skills are frequently checked by the game - which is the most basic RPG mechanic there is - yet JRPGs can't even manage to do that. They completely took the RPG part out of everything but the dull, tactically uninvolved combat which even kids manage to beat effortlessly.

>Gameplay-wise, as in the fucking battle system, JRPG absolutely trash WRPG.
Utter nonsense. Most JRPGs don't even allow you to move your characters on the map.

>>377396003
>JRPG has better combat and stories than WRPG
which one?

>>377395394
Avellone is a cool guy and a good writer, but his tastes aren't exactly highbrow. He loved Felicia Day's The Guild series and was very excited to have her voice a character in FNV. Look at his twitter, he likes all kinds of popcult stuff.

>>377395586
KotOR combat is pretty mindless stuff with no challenge in either encounters or character building. To quote Josh Sawyer, "I've had bowel movements more entertaining than KotOR combat."

The games aren't bad, but not because of combat.

>>377395694
>let you kill quick
See, that's a myth. Master actually makes you do slightly less damage: http://www.gsc-game.com/index.php?t=community&s=forums&s_game_type=xr&thm_page=&thm_id=23742&page=1&sort=ASC&sec_id=11
>STALKER has way faster stun animation.
Faster in what way? To inflict or to pass? Enemies in STALKER also get a ton of damage resistance during the stun animations (source: link above). And in Fallout, if you cripple a limb it stays crippled, slowing the enemy down, for example. You can shoot a weapon out of enemy's arms (damaging it in process). Doesn't make combat exactly good, but it's already better than KotOR.

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>>377395942
>Mod
It's not external content though. It's just reactivating the shit that was on the disk and never implemented because Lucas Arts rushed it.

The only thing new "in" the RCM is the Droid Planet and that's a separate download that's not part of the plot at all.

>>377395842
Because JRPG follow quality more than quantity.

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>d-dumb jrpg

Name 1 (one) crpg with a better, more complex combat system you dumb codex poster. Come on, I'll wait.

>>377396119
lol

>>377396119
Yeah it's called this has been sitting in my steam library since Christmas Day 2015 and I've never played it

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Their fault. You hamfist a bunch of SJW shit into your fantasy kingdom's lore and that's all anyone talks about because it isn't trans(XD)parent. Personally I didn't even bother to pirate it or Tides.

Pillars was okay, but their idea of what is worth $30 of post-launch content is a hilarious insult to the CRPG audience. You don't nickle and dime the people who were here when expansions meant something and post-release content was complimentary. We all still remember how it used to be.

>>>377391276

Those new Shadowrun games are shit. I played Returns and Dragonfall -- they were so easy as if it was hard to fail and not even that interesting to boot because they were both so short.

The fuck are you shilling this for, dude?

>>377391198

I have no nostalgia for KOTOR or KOTOR2, replayed them recently. They aged like shit and the combat is crap in both of them, but walking around the universe and doing the roleplaying was done amazingly. I would exhaust every single area I was in. What an interesting game.

>>377395810
Dialogue options are one thing, but multiple solutions to quests are another. If you solve a problem by shooting someone in the face or picking someone's pocket instead, you're exploring your character's personality too (assuming he could have done either). That's where things get interesting, you need to consider what your character does best and what the possible repercussions for each action are.

In JRPGs you don't have that. You're railroaded through the game. The game doesn't care what your character can or can't do outside of combat (which you usually don't choose to do but which is a consequence of being railroaded too).

>>377395517
https://www.polygon.com/features/2016/9/2/12764588/tyranny-obsidian-disfavored-kyros-a-story-of-bronze-iron-evil

http://ign.com/articles/2016/03/16/tyranny-is-obsidians-new-rpg

So what else were they supposed to do?

>>377395861
I'm not the guy who thinks that. I consider them separate genres that have the same roots but grew apart to the point where they can't be compared any more because they deliver completely different experiences.

The moron I'm talking to seems to be under the impression that they can be compared.

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>>377390698
All I wanted from this game is to be my Overlords bro right hand, and enact his laws over the conquered lands.
IS THAT SO HARD TO ASK?!
WHY IS THE ONLY OPTION TO FUCKING BETRAY HIM?

>>377396178
>They aged like shit
They're sorta clunky, yeah, but not nearly as extreme as most games aging poorly. Aside from the Dark Side face textures, most of the visuals are nice or at least sufficient.

The whole game really feels like playing a tabletop RPG with the sorta blocky, ordered enviroments, and I don't feel that to be a bad thing.


>>377396224
>linking Polygon on /v/

>>377395658
>JRPGs are severely lacking as RPGs. They rarely give the player the opportunity to define their characters' personalities,

Anon, what you think is role playing is actually called LARPing.

> they rarely involve non-combat skills

Haven't seen a western RPG do non-combat skill checks in a meaningful way in a long time. AoD wasthe first one in nearly two decades.

>multiple solutions to quests, etc.

Also something that doesn't happen often in western games, though a lot more often than in jRPGs.

>Not to mention that in terms of tactical combat mechanics they're often pretty boring and grindy - which is ironic because they hardly do anything else.

I look to jRPGs these days for tactical combat because they are the only ones providing it. Western RPGs haven't had tactical combat since they were dungeon crawlers mostly, and back in those days they didn't have social stat checks or quests with multiple solutions, so I can infer that the games you are thinking about when writing this sentence are hardly tactical at all.

>>377390698
I really liked Tyranny character developement. Literally nothing was stopping me from creating a god character with every stat and ability.

>>377395535
>to make another Riddick movie.
or game

>>377396265
'cause you must be good evil guy

>>377396034
>But they don't even do that well.
But they do it well, they do it better than WRPG.
> However, CRPGs at least allow you to somewhat explore your character's personality
As in what way? By making choices or talk a lot to other characters? JRPG do that too.
>ot to mention that your character build actually matters in not having every character be able to do everything because his stats and skills are frequently checked by the game
JRPG do that by combat though, your builds rely on combat, so if you put the wrong skill point you can fuck your game up and not being able to proceed.
>They completely took the RPG part out of everything but the dull, tactically uninvolved combat which even kids manage to beat effortlessly.
JRPG are harder to beat than WRPG.
>Utter nonsense. Most JRPGs don't even allow you to move your characters on the map.
But they do?

>>377395538
I don't understand the pic

>>377396089
Quality at what?

Quality can only emerge from a minimum of quantity. If the game barely allows you to do anything it will be boring, no matter how polished.

>>377396193
>multiple solutions to quests
You mean like in Fallout 3 where you can either blow up the town to entertain some rich old dude or "disarm" an atom bomb with a mediocre skill check? What personalities am I exploring here exactly?

>>377396265
I didn't play the game but I fucking KNEW that they'd pull some shit where you can't actually be evil.

It's the "I'm too nice to actually make an evil character evil" problem. The same as when media has a homophobic or racist character, but because the writers are uncomfortable writing it they do it in a way which isn't offensive.

If you're going to say I can be evil let me be evil.

>>377396119
I will never not be mad at this fucking game.

>>377395942
The comparison you're making here is more akin to saying you'd play a modern AAA game without the day one patch.

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>>377396178
>Those new Shadowrun games are shit. I played Returns and Dragonfall -- they were so easy as if it was hard to fail and not even that interesting to boot because they were both so short.

Thank god someone knows whats up - although my problem wasn't the difficulty, it was how railroaded the shit was.

The SNES Shadowrun shouldn't be more open world than a series of games released in the 2010's.

>>377396037
Suikoden 2, Wild Arms 2, Persona 2 IS + EP, Nier, Nier Automata, the Souls series...

I can go on.

>>377395814
Okay go ahead and name 3 more quests with that many options.

>>377396024
What the fuck are you smoking lad? Either you have tremendously limited experience with JRPG's or you're just talking out of your ass.

>>377396350
iOS design.

>>377396359
No genre enthusiast would regard Fallout 3 as a particularly good game in the genre. But even Fallout 3 at least tries.

Not to mention that it was widely popular in Japan and pretty much blew their mind in giving them such opportunities alone, which their own games thus far haven't.

>>377396278
>I look to jRPGs these days for tactical combat
You're looking in the wrong place then. The best tactical combat is found outside the RPG genre entirely.

>>377396358
Quality of tighter game design, linear but better told story, better world and better OST.

> If the game barely allows you to do anything it will be boring, no matter how polished.
JRPG is about combat mostly, and it does that well.

There are a reason nobody fucking play F1 + F2, but everybody play FFVII, Dragon Quest and the likes.

>>377396398
>Souls
>good story

>noo, john, your goal is to kill the big boss!
>end of the story
woah
>b-but muh cryptic lore!!

>>377396257
Before trying to assert judgement on other people's intelligence, please learn the difference between a comparison and an equation.

>>377396278
>LARPing
How does live action role playing apply to vidya? Are you supposed to throw tennis balls at the screen and yell lightning bolt?

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>>377396398
>Souls
>JRPG
Fuck off and die, faggot. Don't lump a Japanese Action RPG in with what the image of a JRPG is, because it's not the same shit. JRPG doesn't mean "RPG from Japan" and it hasn't for decades.

Same goes for NieR.

>>377396452
Has Fallout 3 inspired any jap games?

They are mostly impressed due to the modding capacity.

Story-wise, nobody is impressed.

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>>377396452
Zelda BOTW got 10/10's for just being more like a western game

And it was one of Japans first attempts at it

In 2017

>>377396472
>There are a reason nobody fucking play F1 + F2, but everybody play FFVII, Dragon Quest and the likes.

Marketing and being on a system meant for children?

>>377396398
>>377396398
Anon, I agree with you but
>Nier Automata, the Souls series

Are action rpgs. They're comparable to stuff like Mass Effect, not classic crpgs. It just isn't fair.

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>>377396172
One and the same anon.

>>377396512
but JRPG means japanese RPG though, what the fuck does it mean nowadays?

Does it mean Kingdom Hearts is not JRPG?
>>377396478
But that's not your goal?

>>377390698
>You're totally evil guys!
>You're actually not totally evil.
Fuck that shit.

>>377391276
>turn based trash
>updated crpg
KEK

>>377396452
>Not to mention that it was widely popular in Japan
It wasn't that popular but so what if Japan liked it? It was way more popular in the west where people should have known better.

>>377396046
And it's also one of the few things I'll ever call complete garbage without being hyperbolic, or contrarian, or with the intent of starting shit.

Seriously, imagine several hours of doing dumb scrub janitor work on a stupid planet filled with "robots" that are clearly basement dwelling NEETs who recorded their lines into a walmart mic and passed off to an amateur "sound mixer" who did his best to disguise the fact that the source audio is a fat neck breather with a rhotacism. Imagine every single map is way too fucking big and way too fucking empty and it takes forever to get anywhere especially if it's on another level. Imagine being given too many fucking sidequests to do by robots you don't give a shit about. Imagine realizing halfway through how terrible an idea installing this was but it's too late because you can't leave this fucking robot planet halfway so you have to finish the boring garbage main quest to save some jedi lady with awful voice acting that is now inserted into every jedi council scene in the game.

I mean, I recognize that the mod team wanted to do something big for a game they loved, beyond small content patches, but they clearly did not have the resources or talent.

>>377396614
I mean if you count Mass Effect or Witcher as WRPG, I do not see why you cannot count Souls or Dragon's Dogma.

>>377396464
I'm not looking purely for tactical combat. I'm looking for RPGs with tactical combat. And there's only so many times a man can replay X-COM or Jagged Alliance.

>>377396502
You're pretending to be the character in your screen. That's LARPing.

>>377396607
>Marketing and being on a system meant for children?
Diablo 2 is also more well-played.

Hint hint.

GOOD ADDICTIVE COMBAT SYSTEM.

>>377396278
>Anon, what you think is role playing is actually called LARPing.
Are you retarded? LARPing is dressing up in the forest and pretending to be orcs and elves.

>Haven't seen a western RPG do non-combat skill checks in a meaningful way in a long time. AoD wasthe first one in nearly two decades.
PoE, Tyranny, Numenera, Dragonfall, ... the vast majority of the newer CRPGs did skill checks. How meaningful they were is a matter of opinion but the point is that they add to the gameplay. Leaving them out and taking the RPG out of the actual game and reducing it to numbers that only matter in combat like your average JRPG does it not an option.

>Also something that doesn't happen often in western games, though a lot more often than in jRPGs.
Complete nonsense. Again: the vast majority of recent RPGs had that. Whether they did it well is another matter but did they do it better than JRPGs which don't do it at all? Certainly!

>I look to jRPGs these days for tactical combat because they are the only ones providing it.
Tactical combat in JRPGs is exceedingly boring. I effortlessly beat them when I was a kid and already found the grind of random encounters boring back then. The combat in them is simply tactically uninvolved and the game gives you too few opportunities to meaningfully build your character that it would actually make a difference.

A single-character game like Age of Decadence is infinitely more deep in terms of how your character build affects how you play the game than any JRPG I've ever played. And the game even did stats/skill checks, multiple solutions to quests, etc.

>>377396367
>If you're going to say I can be evil let me be evil.
They never said you'd be evil, though. The actual promise was "set in a fantasy world where the villain already won." Which it is, but /v/ spergs took that to mean you're a literal cannibal and rapist on an adventure of Chaotic Evil proportions.

>>377396806
>That's LARPing.
OK so you don't understand what larping is at all. That's ok, you are a special little boy and mommy loves you.

>>377396905
That's poor advertising then.

In fact, it's probably a big part of why nobody wanted the game. People don't like playing evilm the majority of time.

>>377396838
>How meaningful they were is a matter of opinion but the point is that they add to the gameplay. Leaving them out and taking the RPG out of the actual game and reducing it to numbers that only matter in combat like your average JRPG does it not an option.
I don't understand how you can be so enamored with skill-checks. They do almost nothing for me other than a bit of flavor and when a game is too heavily based around them it starts feeling artificial and meaningless, like a CYOA book.

>>377396905
No, their entire marketing pitch was based on making people believe their character would be a darth vader style enforcer of an evil regime.

They lied.

>>377396905
So evil won and cannibals/rapists aren't thriving? So what's so bad about the society?

Why even advertise it that way?

Most people don't appreciate having to go through a choose-your-own-history wall of text before getting into the game itself. Character creation is already bad enough for these people but when they don't get some actual gameplay early on they just tune out and don't bother.

Not saying the game is good or bad. It's a neat idea but one that won't sell capture a lot of players. There is a reason why a lot of games throw you into some kind of prologue scenario where you get throw fireballs and swing claymores.

>>377396838
>Tactical combat in JRPGs is exceedingly boring. I effortlessly beat them when I was a kid and already found the grind of random encounters boring back then.
Bullshit, I call that bullshit. Boot up FFVII and show me you beat Ultimate Weapon.
>
A single-character game like Age of Decadence is infinitely more deep in terms of how your character build affects how you play the game than any JRPG I've ever played. And the game even did stats/skill checks, multiple solutions to quests, etc.
Age of Decadence is a very cool cRPG, but it really isn't as hard as JRPG, you destroy fucking shit with a combat build or talk your way out of anything.

>>377396337
>But they do it well, they do it better than WRPG.
No, they don't. Their combat is tactically dull and boring and the rest of the game is mostly linear with no reference to the game being an RPG at all as RPG elements only affect combat.

>As in what way? By making choices or talk a lot to other characters? JRPG do that too.
The vast majority of JRPGs don't do that and even those that do mostly define your character - rarely giving you the opportunity to choose what your character says/does and having him talk and do things on his own most of the time if it suits the mostly linear plot.

>JRPG do that by combat though, your builds rely on combat, so if you put the wrong skill point you can fuck your game up and not being able to proceed.
I've yet to see such a JRPG. JRPGs are actually pretty forgiving since you usually deal with a party and fucking up all characters is hard. Not to mention that they usually hand every character the essential skills so fucking up is literally impossible.

>JRPG are harder to beat than WRPG.
No. I beat JRPGs effortlessly when I was a kid. Kids still beat them effortlessly. Who do you think these games are made for? They are made for kids. And it shows.

>But they do?
No, they don't. Your average JRPG still keeps your characters in place. But even those that do manage to be fairly dull.

>>377397071
>Bullshit, I call that bullshit. Boot up FFVII and show me you beat Ultima Weapon*

>>377397058
That's very true - Metroid Prime starts you with all of Samus' shit and then you lose it and gotta get it back, enticing the player to play on.

>>377397058
>Most people don't appreciate having to go through a choose-your-own-history wall of text before getting into the game itself.
And that was one of the best bits of the game

>>377396424
Pazaak Den (Nar Shaddaa)
>find out the password from the Cantina bartender
>threaten the bouncer to let you in
>Force Persuade the bouncer to let you in, if you have Dominate Mind
>Beat the three prominent players in Pazaak normally
>Reprogram the droid player to not care at all about Pazaak and leave
>Steal the signal module from the droid player to make "her" easier to beat
>Persuade the Twi'lek player into throwing for you
>Have Atton in your party, who will charm her into throwing
>Use Force Persuade to get the Duros player to go outside to the gang members who want to collect their debts (assuming you talked to them before you went in)
>Use your normal Persuade/Lie to tell him his ex is out there for the same effect
>beat The Champ 3 times in high stakes Pazaak
>convince The Champ to go back into retirement

This is even less plot relevant than the refugee quest. At least the game points you towards the Refugee Sector; there's literally no plot reason to ever enter the Pazaak Den.

Siege of Khoonda (Dantooine)
>Attack Vrook in the cave to ensure you're going down Dark Side
>possibly get Zherron temporarily kicked from his position as security chief, making him less supportive of you
>Lie to Azkul to trick him into attacking a fortified Khoonda
>Actually attack with Azkul
>Go back to Khoonda and help fortify it, then side with the militia
>Go back to Khoonda and sabotage the defenses, then side with the mercs
>Sabotage defenses, but side with militia
>Allow Azkul to kill administrator
>Kill Azkul (Light Side)
>Kill Zherron (Dark Side)
>Bait Vrook into attacking you even if you sided militia
>attack Vrook
>convince Vrook to gather at the Enclave even if you're Dark Side

I'm nearly at character limit so fuck typing out a third.

>>377396967
Paradox fucked up, no doubt. Both by assuming Obsidian's fan base was as big as FNV makes it out to be, and assuming the frothing demand for cRPGs wasn't quashed when POE was meh and Torment took too long to release.

>>377397025
You mistook /v/ memeing for actual advertising. Go look at the videos they released about it - the overlord won, you're in a world ruled by "evil."

>>377397042
There's both of those things but they're not "thriving" because the overlord was Lawful Evil. Things are only actually shitty in Tyranny because you're in the last holdout area against the overlord.

>>377397196
>You mistook /v/ memeing for actual advertising.
Nigger fuck you, I still have the GameInformer issue where they talked about it being exactly that.

>>377396937
You're the autist who is pretending that he is literally inside Skyrim, taking a huge cock up his ass in his degenerate slut-dungeon mod. I'm sorry to say but that is LARPing. Normal people who play RPGs aren't trying to pretend that they are really the characters withing the game, they don't give a fuck. It's all numbers and the only thing a real man concerns himself with is how to maximize his numbers to minimize the opposing numbers.

>>377396838
>PoE, Tyranny, Numenera, Dragonfall

I said meaningful. Or are you such a retard that you think the choices you make in Mass Effect are meaningful as well?

>Complete nonsense. Again: the vast majority of recent RPGs had that. Whether they did it well is another matter but did they do it better than JRPGs which don't do it at all? Certainly!

Nonsense. Your experience is limited to RPGs from 2005 and onward. It really shows.

>Tactical combat in JRPGs is exceedingly boring. I effortlessly beat them when I was a kid and already found the grind of random encounters boring back then.

And I can effortlessly beat Baldur's Gate 2, doesn't mean that this is the best representation of western RPG combat.

>>377390698
>hurr this genre shouldn't have come back because all these devs made shit games

people wanted good games, not just any old game that fits the genre

>>377394016
I hated all the bitches in that game. The were all strong womyn that need no tyrant. I understand having one character like that, but all of them?!

>>377397112
>No, they don't. Their combat is tactically dull and boring and the rest of the game is mostly linear with no reference to the game being an RPG at all as RPG elements only affect combat.
This is quite funny because combat is where JRPG shine and keeps people in playing the games.

>The vast majority of JRPGs don't do that and even those that do mostly define your character - rarely giving you the opportunity to choose what your character says/does and having him talk and do things on his own most of the time if it suits the mostly linear plot.
JRPG characters define their characters through story and dialogues, the same way WRPG do, just not through dialog choices.
>I've yet to see such a JRPG. JRPGs are actually pretty forgiving since you usually deal with a party and fucking up all characters is hard. Not to mention that they usually hand every character the essential skills so fucking up is literally impossible.
Even goddamn basic shit like FFVII has you focusing on build to beat the extra bosses, but if you want heavy build games, check out SMT.
>No. I beat JRPGs effortlessly when I was a kid. Kids still beat them effortlessly. Who do you think these games are made for? They are made for kids. And it shows.
Show me a video where you beat Ultima Weapon as a kid.
>No, they don't. Your average JRPG still keeps your characters in place. But even those that do manage to be fairly dull.
But they do move around the map? How do you expect them to advance the plot if they cannot move around the map?

>>377397239
Post proof or I refuse to believe print media still exists.

>>377397112
>No. I beat JRPGs effortlessly when I was a kid. Kids still beat them effortlessly. Who do you think these games are made for? They are made for kids. And it shows.
Kids beat them but not effortlessly and they are made for kids because mostly only kids have that kind of time

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>>377397196
What did they mean by this?

Or was it just a MEME by Obsidian?

Glad their game flopped

And from their steam store page:

>Main Features:
>Branching, unique stories in an original setting:
The battle between good and evil has already taken place, and evil stands victorious
>and evil stands victorious

>>377396472
>Quality of tighter game design, linear but better told story, better world and better OST.
Meaningless buzzwords, but I'll address them.

>Quality of tighter game design
The criticism still applies: mechanically, JRPGs are not RPGs outside of combat. Japan has failed up to this day to meaningfully interweave storytelling with RPG elements. And the tactical combat albeit more 'streamlined' is often tactically dull, giving you too few opportunities for your character build to come into play. Not to mention that you rarely even get to actually deviate from the path as your character is 'tightly' constrained. You don't even get to develop your own character. Numbers go up on their own.

>linear but better told story
Words like 'better' mean very little they come from someone with shit taste. That is however a matter of opinion and thus completely irrelevant to the argument. What really matters is that a linear story fails to make use of the medium. You're not reading a book. You're not watching a movie. You're playing a game. The story should be part of the game.

>better world and better OST
I've yet to see a JRPG with a world as well designed as that of Gothic 2. And the OST of the Gothic series (or plenty of other western RPGs) is pretty great too.

>>377395673
Fuck you, underrail is awesome

>>377397195
>>377396424
Oh, and I forgot to mention that on Khoonda, if you sabotage the defenses but side with the militia anyway, it'll have GOTO consider the region destabilized for the purposes of his quest because the militia will be defeated and several NPCs killed in the battle outside the walls.

Classic JRPG has you grind your ass out to beat a super ass hard boss, borderlines cheating
This is rewarding.

Classic WRPG has you pump stat in persuation skill so you can effortlessly select an option and the boss kills itself.

This is why WRPG is not rewarding.

>>377397351
>Show me a video where you beat Ultima Weapon as a kid.
Sure thing let me just go back in time for a sec

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>Tfw Tranny was better than Pillars of Shiternity but it sold worse

I hope this fucking industry burns

All of these games were fucking shit.

Wasteland 2 was clunky as fuck and boring, same as that horrid zombie RPG. Felt like they released both games while they were still in the beta phase.

PoE wasn't too bad, but again it also felt clunky, unfinished and unpolished. The game got so tedius that I couldn't even bother finishing the White March expansions. The whole stronghold part felt like they quickly mashed it up in a day to fulfill their stretch goal obligation.

I just couldn't stand Tyranny at all, but then again I didn't really give it much of a chance. I played a few hours and gave up.

Numenera seemed to start alright and it was interesting. But it didn't really captivate me at all. It really seemed they had a bunch of these half baked ideas that they shoved into the game just because. If they didn't market it as a successor of Planescape torment maybe I wouldn't have expected it to be on par with it.

Divinity Original Sin, Age of Decadence, Shadowrun(not the vanilla campaign) are a prime example
of good games with a pretty big variety between each other but a similar focus.

>>377397417
Exactly as they said, evil stands victorious. Only it's a Lawful Evil dictator, not a Chaotic Evil OC DONUT STEEL like you wanted.

>>377396806
>I'm not looking purely for tactical combat.
Stop playing RPGs then and play games that have tactical combat. There are lots of them out there. In particular if you look at WW2 combat games.

However, these aren't as easy as JRPGs, so you might have a bit of a hard time.

>You're pretending to be the character in your screen.
You're defining the character you're playing. That's what you do in a role playing game.

Are you literally retarded?

>>377397381
I'll go take a look at the issues I have laying around but it might be in storage.

>>377397503
>Only it's a Lawful Evil dictator

So not really evil and not something that is a new concept either.

>>377397501
>AoD
>good
>>>/trash/

>>377396768
You can. I mean, Automata is more similar to, say, gothic ( third person real time combat ) than to final fantasy VI. All those labels are mostly meaningless at this point, western weebs are make traditional jrpgs and japanese developers are make western action-rpgs.

It's pretty great.

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>>377397464
>This is rewarding.

So rewarding that Bravely Default has an autogrind feature

>>377397436
>>377397195
>>377395814
Jesus fuck this game sounds amazing.

>>377391118
Didn't even know there was game called Tyranny until 2 days before release and before tyranny i had played every other obsidian title and gave money in kickstarter for PoE.

>>377397569
>little baby invested in non combat skills and died in his first fight
Git gud tasteless pleb

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>>377397503
What's the difference between Overlord and Tyranny?

Overlord got a sequel because it actually let you play a bad guy.

>>377397591
>It's pretty great.
It's a fucking nightmare when both sides of the planet are working tirelessly to cannibalize each other

>>377397418
>The criticism still applies: mechanically, JRPGs are not RPGs outside of combat.
JRPG focus only on combat and the majority care about combat in game because talking is boring.
>Not to mention that you rarely even get to actually deviate from the path as your character is 'tightly' constrained. You don't even get to develop your own character. Numbers go up on their own.
Very wrong with JRPG, starting from FFIII you already have multiple character party with different classes, meaning you can play the games in different ways.
>Words like 'better' mean very little they come from someone with shit taste.
Or it comes from people who prefer unique stories instead of CYOA, I can play a VN and it would be better for that.
>You're playing a game. The story should be part of the game.
You beat the boss in order to progress the story, it's absolutely a part of the story.


>I've yet to see a JRPG with a world as well designed as that of Gothic 2.
FFIV already has a Gothic 2 tier world.
>And the OST of the Gothic series (or plenty of other western RPGs) is pretty great too.
Great sure, but comparable to JRPG, nein.

I love late night RPG threads on /v/.
Even the screeching arguments are productive.

>>377397636
So you're just an idiot.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts

>Tyranny Coupon Added to All Tiers
>Thanks to our friends over at Paradox, every tier will now come with a coupon for Tyranny. One for 33% comes with the $29 tier, while a whopping 50% off coupon will come with every other tier above that. They can be redeemed on Paradox's website for a Steam code after the campaign is over, they can be used for any version of Tyranny you would like, and they will be good for three months.

>>377396489
A proper comparison requires aspects for you to compare. If the genres have grown apart to a point where their characteristics don't overlap a comparison becomes impossible.
Instead of trying to resort to a semantic debate you should try to address the given arguments, like an intelligent person would do, rather than a butthurt moron who got told on the internet.

>>377397526
wargames are for the most part, extremely boring and tedious. I play Axis and Allies regularly though, although that game might be too obscure for you. Also have multiple PBEM games of Dominions for tactical gameplay. None of this invalidates the need for a tactical RPG experience.

>You're defining the character you're playing. That's what you do in a role playing game.

I wouldn't be surprised if you tried to apply personalities each party member in your blobber dungeon crawlers. Should be easy for a mentally ill person suffering from multiple personalities. Normal people, however, don't care. The Wizard is the Wizard and that's enough.

>>377397141
You'll notice a lot games doing that when you start paying attention and not just because of tutorial reasons. Kingdom Hearts lets you fights waves of shadow and a giant boss within minutes of pressing new game, Fallout lets you control the character and run around while creating it, it's stuff like this to draw in the player.
I'm not saying you cant have lots of text and shit but the most important thing is to get the player playing the game as soon as possible. There is always time for exposition and world building later.

>>377397562
>conquering 99% of the world and ruling it with an iron fist is not evil
Only on 4chan.