This game is fucking me up, /v/. Am I still really me if my mind

Yeah

>>377374179
What makes you you is the culmination of past experiences and conditioning. So I would say yes,.

>>377374179
>Am I still really me if my mind gets transferred to a robot?

Your consciousness is contained in the electrical activity taking place between your neurons. You could perfectly transfer that electricity from your biological brain to one made of silicon and that would be you, too.

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>>377374179
Consciousness and self are an illusion. They're literally our operating systems in our brains. Existential crisis are runtime errors. Go clean your room or listen to a podcast to straighten your brain out.

Yes, but now there is a robot version of you who gets to exist after you die.

>>377374179
Game's story was amazing but the gameplay was complete horseshit honestly.

>>377374539
>>377374576
>>377374603
>souls don't exist

>>377374179
No, your not you. Your a copy of you. The original you is gone

>>377374685
>He fell for the religion meme

>>377374685
Prove that they do.
The burden of proof is on you that make the claim that souls exist.

So first, prove it.

>>377374179
Are you still really you from one moment to the next?

The you who read the above line 10 seconds ago isn't the you who is reading this line now.

>>377374685
That's correct, just like modern medicine disproved the idea of 'ethers', modern neuroscience disproved the idea of a 'soul'. We know what a consciousness is and why it exists.

>>377374905
how has neuroscience disproved the idea of a soul?

>>377374179
only if your physical brain is transferred into an empty vessel

a perfect replica would still be a replica

>>377374179
read the book Permutation City if you wanna take the idea of consciousness and push it even further beyond

>>377374905
Common sense disproves the idea of a soul, but you can actually disprove it because its changes definition all the time and religious people have made it unproveable, just like the unicorns on mars.
Science actually can't fully explain in-dept consciousness yet, but we have good ideas about it. Animals are just dumber than us in the long run. We're basically a brilliant ape, but we're still technically an animal. We can simply look at other animals and reason that our consciousness is just far more advanced than their due to intelligence and creativity.

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>>377374603

>>377374539
correct but.....
if your past experiences and conditioning are put into a robot and your still alive. who is the real you then.
The human or the robot.
this is why the story failed for me.

>>377375029

The soul is an idea that was invented by primitive people who had no idea what consciousness is or how it comes about. It has no supporting evidence and became popular because there isn't any fact-based explanation, so people gravitated to whatever explanation was available.

Now we do know the actual reason consciousness exists, and it's not because you have a magical energy identifier given to you by god.

>>377374179
No, you're a new -you- that's the entire point of the fucking game.

Who's in the right here, Donald or Mickey?

>>377374179
Technically you're not the you from 10 years ago

>>377374179
>Am I still really me if my mind gets transferred to a robot?

No, since you yourself won't transfer over. Only a copy of you will transfer over. The only way to truly move over from one body to another would be a complete brain transplant

>>377375389
Nigga, that's literally the point of the story. That's like saying a comedy movie was funny, and that's why it failed to me. The fuck.

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>>377374905
>We know what a consciousness is and why it exists.
No, we still don't.
Where the fuck did you hear this from?

>>377374179

Depends. Do you consider a clone to be you?

If not, then no. The player character died a long time ago in the past relative to the events of the game

>>377375461
mickey ofc
nihilism is for losers

>>377374179
Yes, both versions are "you", they just become different iterations of your self after the copy is made (although this really only applies to a perfect copy).

It's more akin to a timeline split, except the two versions remain in the same line. One is just the you that didn't go in the robot, the other is you that got in the fuckin robot.

the only existential crisis that should arise from consciousness upload is that the you your point of view is currently within won't get the sweet robot functionality, that was the only part of the walking sim I could sympathize with.

>>377375689
but that wasn't the player character, the blob of goo in the suit is

>>377374685
Does transferring yourself also transfer the soul? It is a perfect copy.

>>377375634
Bill Nye probably.

>>377375634
Certainly we do. A consciousnes is a summary product of electrical activity in your brain. Just like a spike of electrical activity in your nerve endings can produce the sensation of pain (or pleasure, depending on the nature of the activity,) electricity also creates a consciousness when operating in a certain configuration which brains are structured in such a way as to urge it to operate in.

>>377375620
you don't have reading comprehension
>>377374539 asked if he was still himself and i responded by saying yes because you do have the originals memorys, But! your not the real person but a copy.

>>377375742
but mickey's not even saying anything, he's just saying that everything is impossible to prove which is pointless

>>377374179
Let's say I have a file. I make a copy of it. It's not the same file. Even if it's completely identical, it's not the original. However, I can move the original file to another other computer and it's still the same file.

Unless you believe that you need your own body to be you, it doesn't matter where your mind is as long as its intact right?

>>377374179
Sure, reject the idea of the body impermanence and accept life as a collection of memories and experiences that define who you are.

>>377374179
Short answer Yes
Long answer, No, because the current 'You' exists only in concert with the entire rest of the universe as it is. Different experiences change people, and going from a mostly hormone based system of decision making to a digital emulation of your hormone based decision making is basically as drastic a change as any life changing trauma

So you stop being 'You' as you might like to conceive of how you are as a person, in the same way that it can be said of someone in a carcrash 'they just havn't been the same since the accident'

The main thing to remember is that there's no such thing as the 'true you' in the same way no specific 500 gallons of water is the 'true river' that runs by your town

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>It's a '70 IQ /v/ users attempt to argue philosophy' thread

Just do your McJob and get married and reproduce, thinking is above your station.

>>377374683
Yeah it was boring and not scary. the ai was blind and deaf you could just walk past all of them. I think the game would have benefited from less spooks more puzzle stuff. that ending though, pure horror.

ITT: arguing about solutions to problems we don't even know if we will ever have
The circumstances and first data will tell us everything. It's entirely dependent on the implementation.

>>377375389
The point was to make you question your self of being. Or more simply, to cause an existential crisis.

But really, if your being was perfectly copied, both were "you", but as time goes on, you each become your own "you". This goes back to one of the more simple philosophical questions if self-perception "I think, therefore I am."

To even go further down this hole, you are still you, even if there was a perfect copy made that held everything that you knew up to that point, but unless they were doing everything exactly as you were from then on, and thought the same thing, they are completely different, no more than you are not them.

It could almost be the case of you becoming your own best friend or worst enemy depending on how each of you perceive an event and react, learn and grow from it.

The only situation I can think of that would make sense if we had to assume both were "you" would then be a hive mind, as both would need to be linked and be observing and coming to the same conclusions to an event.

>>377375904
>your

Fucking pleb

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>>377376013
>Falling for the get married and reproduce meme

>>377376013
>job and reproducing
>/v/

>>377376132
stay mad mate

>>377375957
He's saying it's pointless to argue points that only apply to itself.
Live your fucking life and don't let the shit around how you're doing it bother you, since it will never affect you.

Since we're going to talk about philosophy, what about the ship of Thesus?

>Go around the world in a ship
>At each port you need to do repairs and maintenance
>This involves replaying part of the ship with a brand new part
>By the time you get home, everything that is the ship has been replaced at least once
>So is it still the same ship you left on?

You could apply the same logic to humans after all, our cells are constantly dying and being replaced. There's nothing in your body that's over 3 years old, you're technically in a whole new body every 3 years

>>377374179
Yes.

>>377375389
>who is the real you then.
Both.

I dunno why you humans can't wrap your heads around this simple concept.

>>377375376
I love this fucking image

>>377375904
You still don't get it. Those questions and theories are all in the game and it's what's the game about. How can you say the game failed for you because of that? Unless the game actually went over your head or you forgot that those same questions were asked over and over and over and over during the game. The game didn't end with an answer to it.

>>377376331
>There's nothing in your body that's over 3 years old, you're technically in a whole new body every 3 years

This is bullshit on the same level as the 'you only use 2% of your brain! scientists call it the skim milk rule' myth.

>>377376353
>Both
Kek no
the real you is the person who gave the memory to the copy not both.
>>377376394
The fuck are you even talking about bro. He is not even talking about any of that. I think you need to read more

>>377376502
In any case, your body does replace its cells constantly and eventually a majority of your body is still replaced

>>377375376
The first sentence micky says here always bugged me.

>>377374179
Are you really you after you wake up in the morning from sleeping?
There is just as much continuity of conciousness as if you became a robot or an upload as when you go to sleep.

>>377375556
This. I get that they tried to be thought-provoking, but the whole coin flip talk was some fucking BS. They say in the game that a perfect copy of your consciousness is created. By that logic, there is no coin-flip. You always wake up in exactly the same body in which you started the process, it's just that your copy has the same memories and thus a sense of continuation -- it can't discern being a copy.
I kinda get that the main character raged at the end about "losing" the coin flip, because it's from a perspective of the consciousness that was copied on the first scan (and has thus never experienced losing the flip). But if the main character had even stopped for one fucking second to think about this, it should've been clear from the beginning that you always lose, because there is no flip.

Yes, I'm kind of sperging about this, but they had such a great idea and I'm angry that they fucked it up so badly at the end.

>>377376515
I'm addressing his comment of why the game failed for him. It's an idiotic statement. You and the other motherfucker need to boost your comprehension skills.

>>377375893
We can determine the physical reactions in the brain which cause emotion, behaviour, memory etc. but I don't think we can conclusively prove consciousness because as far as we can tell, it isn't physical phenomena.

It's an issue of language and abstraction, I think. Humans are conscious because we decide we are based on our own individual judgement. We claim to experience a combination of empathy, self-awareness, recollection and personality which we would constitute as 'consciousness', but this is a judgement made in abstraction. Consciousness isn't a single thing, it's a relationship we impose on our own psychological processes.

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>>377374179
Every time you go to sleep you die and a new you will be reborn in your place. The only reason it seems that you've been going to sleep and waking up was because those were the memories you were born with this morning.

>>377374757
The original incarnation of you is gone, yes. But the real question behind Soma is 'is a recreation of you any less 'you' than the original?'. Soma is a query in identity.

>>377374685
Your soul is your consciousness

>>377376705
If you get brain damage, get sucker punched in the jaw, or you blow your brain out, you lose consciousness. It's that simple. It's all in the brain. Unless people want to argue that bugs and rats have souls because the same logic applies to them.

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>>377376703
he never said the game failed for him you stupid fuck. He said the copy isn't the original but it does share the originals memory's. Read more faggot

>>377376502
>>377376331
he's right but it takes 7 years for the whole body, not 3

>>377374179
scariest part is the gameplay

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>>377375957
its not pointless, Donald's hardline nihilism is based on the supposition that he is definitely right, but its a fools errand to be a skeptic without applying skepticism to your skepticism. To put your foot down and say 'this is it, I have no more questions that I want answered' is, to a Newtonian (which most western thinkers are) nothing less than giving up. Saying 'I'm tired of looking for truth, this is the convenient lie I'm going to live in from now on and put my faith in'
well clearly you weren't looking for truth in the first place, so it doesn't actually matter if love is chemicals or not. you're just believing what you want to believe.

I also argue against the idea that love being reducible to chemicals means it has no intrinsic value.

Unless you are operating under a weird sense of value, then value means one of two things. A) it is rare, relatively speaking. B) it improves things. In which case I argue that love is rare, and that love improves things. Not because of its position on any market, but because of its nature, because of how it comes and how it effects us. In which case I would argue that yes, love reduced to its chemical components is still valuable.

Furthermore, rational thought is also just chemicals in the brain, so if you're going to dismiss all chemical reaction as meaningless you are also in the same breath throwing away your very argument as meaningless, so now you're right back where you started

The robot isn't you because the robot is a copy with the exact same "brain". It's not "oh wow I transferred to a new body!" it's a new clone is created that has the exact same brain and memories up to the point of creation. People desperately want to pretend like they can save themselves by making the clone, but they still exist. They just created new consciousness.

>>377376705
>We can determine the physical reactions in the brain which cause emotion, behaviour, memory etc. but I don't think we can conclusively prove consciousness because as far as we can tell, it isn't physical phenomena.

You're arbitrarily drawing a line at what is or isn't consciousness. You're totally OK admitting that 'emotion, behaviour, memory etc.' are all electrical activity in the brain, but as soon as you're talking about the package created by these things, that must magically be created by something else, contrary to all evidence that exists?

>>377376940
"this is why the story failed for me." >>377375389

HE LITERALLY SAID IT, YOU COCKSUCKER

>>377374179
Of course you are you. the robot howrever is not. it is you but different.

>>377376373
do you have the one from the kingdom hearts manga where donald talks about how proof of alternative worlds with alternative rules causes civil unrest?

>>377374539
experiences are passed down to the baby through sex. this is how life works. all my experiences have been passed down to my baby... is he me?

>>377374179

>brb as I pirate OP

But, in all seriously, does this mean that we can pirate people?

Could we make a model teacher/hooker/soldier and copy his conscience over and have a production of humans/robots/cyborgs slaves specialized in one thing?

Why the fuck was I born so early in human history?

>dat feel when you will never download the newest waifu conscience release for your perfect cloned female autonomous slave cyborg

>>377376615
because its a larger size?

>>377377204
Shut up

>>377375965
But we're more than a file. We're the operating system and the hardware all together.
You aren't just a movie reel of past experiences played on a white screen. You are you because of what you remember, and what you forget. What you misremember too.
How would you go about coding seratonin? Endorphins? Dopamine? Who we are is also our chemicals, for good and for ill.

>>377377313
he's right on a genetic level

Your mind doesn't get transferred it gets copied. Imagine you save a word file with the words "OP is a fucking faggot" and save it twice as OP and OP(1). You then add to OP "OP is a fucking cocksucking faggot" and to OP(1) you add "OP is a fucking faggot with shit for brains". Are they still the same file? No they aren't.

In that same way your copy has similar things to you but will continue changing differently from you because you are now two separate entities.

There's no coin flip the protag was stupid as fuck, much like you OP.

>>377377082
>>377375389 here to tell you your a fucking idiot if you took it out of context. When i said it failed for me i am explaining how the failures of the characters ability to think the way 90% of the people think in the world turned me off. I was not explaining how i didn't understand the story but how the people are to dumb to live.

>>377375764
Except that's wrong. The blob of goo in the suit is just a blob of goo that you are inhabiting as the player character. Your real body, your real -you- died back in the contemporary setting.

The -you- that inhabits the goop in the suit is a different -you- entirely. The game literally just fucks with perspective.

>>377377407
>There's no coin flip the protag was stupid as fuck, much like you OP.
the coinflip is only lived by the survivor since both will have the same memories but only one will be in the "right" place. The one in the new environment will feel "lucky" to have won but really, the other was doomed from the get go. Its weird to think about this since he still remember HOPING to be the winner, and he was.

>>377377402
False analogy, again shut up.

How hard is this game? How should I approach it?

>>377374179
>Am I still really me if my mind gets transferred to a robot?

Copying your mind to another (artificial) brain at the time of death would create another perfectly real "you", but the original "you" wouldn't really give a shit, because the original "you" would still die.

I wouldn't get to have the experience of continued life just because another of me exists. Magically creating a perfect copy of myself while I'm alive would not cause me to be experiencing two lives at once, because that's retarded, so it follows that magically creating a perfect copy of myself when I die would not allow me to experience the life of the copy.

>>377377616
its not even an analogie
>what are instincts
why do you think most people are afraid of spiders and snake? This shit was programmed in you way back

Are "you" really "you" after you change?

>>377377670
>How hard is this game? How should I approach it?
gameplay wise its basically just amnesia. you explore shit, solve some basic puzzles, listen to NPC's talk, and occasionally try to sneak past monsters

>>377377407
The coin-flip is essentially a lie told to the main character. It was meant to demonstrate that Simon ultimately has to be one of two Simons (the second of which he creates, hence the 'double-sided' coin flip), but Simon's position in the duality is already decided.
Pretty sure computer-woman was just using it as a convenient crutch for getting her work done.

>>377377670
The good part of this game is the story, so its not hard So get the fuck out of the thread for your own sake, dont get spoiled since its all about the story.

>>377374179
no it's a clone

>>377377702
It's funny, the more I try, the more egregious you get.

>>377377790
>you
anon the genetic comment was my first reply to you, I'm not the other dude

>>377377430
What the FUCK are you even talking about now!? Now I see the problem, you're so bad at spelling and grammar and making your point clear that no one knows the fuck you're saying or trying to say. Are you a robot?

>>377377702
>This shit was programmed in you way back
most babies and small infants have no fear of spiders and snakes until they learn to be afraid of them

>>377377467
>The game literally just fucks with perspective.

Exactly, and it was a such good idea. Finally confirming what you had began to suspect would have been a nice story "twist", and made a fine story together with a few questions about robot ethics. But instead they had to mess up by getting all pseudo-philosophical by asking questions about identity that they were too stupid to notice they already had answered previously.

>>377376694
>but the whole coin flip talk was some fucking BS.

They weren't trying to be thought-provoking with the coin flip analogy. Catherine never actually told Simon that's how it works. The most-assuredly brain damaged man just came up with it himself and Catherine just went with it because it gave him some sort of explanation and he would keep going to complete the mission. Catherine multiple times said that there was no transferring over, but Simon wouldn't listen

>>377377204
>experiences are passed down to the baby through sex. this is how life works. all my experiences have been passed down to my baby.

Please tell me you dropped out of school in 3rd grade. I refuse to believe that education is this bad anywhere.

DNA does not record your personal life experiences.

>>377376780
>pic related
Just like how in startrek they all die and are disintergrated every time they beam anywhere and are just a clone with the same memories inserted when they arrive.

>>377377843

>>377377762

>>377377854
stay mad. i explained my case and leave it at that.

>>377377863
>Finally confirming what you had began to suspect would have been a nice story "twist"

You mean the blatantly obvious point that Simon was a robot the whole time, something people were calling since the first gameplay for the game was shown off?

I dont get why a lot of people say "duh, of course he wouldn't get on the ark" when talking about the ending and coinflip. You need to remember that he switched at omni already and "won" that coinflip, from his perspective.

>>377374179

Just the fact that you can copy your mind at all means that it's not you any more, since not only you can have multiple (You)'s, you can also store the information for later (You)'s.

If you die, I copy you consciousness, and then, 10 years later use the data to create it on a new brain, would I be reviving you?

If I made two (You)'s, which one would be (You)? They both can't be (You) since they will have different perspectives and experiences from the first second they are alive.

This is is because the (You) is not a product of just yourself, but rather a product of your interaction with the outside world. A (You) instance if you may.

This original instance is the once who lived it's whole life until the replication procedure, and it will end when it dies.

All other new (You)'s, even if they have a copy of your mind, will be a new being, a second instance of (You), but with no actual background.

>>377376925
>>377377076
The brain is still grounded in physicality of course. Like everything else in the universe, everything has to be linked to physical processes. I'm not advocating for some kind of supernatural conclusion, I just mean that 'consciousness' is a term that's subjective, because it's the sum of what we decide makes us us. Emphasis on 'we decide'. It's an abstraction.

>>377377762
Obviously not.
Go ahead, count your (You)s, then transfer your consciousness to a proxy.
(You) are no longer (You), even if you remember earning them.

>>377378013
Yes exactly that blatantly obvious point. As I said, would've been nice with a bit of robot ethics mixed in. Also there was absolutely no need to make the main character a moron. I would've been OK with the story if he'd just said: "Well I'm going to die for sure, but I'm going to help start the ark because that's the right thing to do"

>>377377925
star trek has canon ghosts, meaning it exists in a dualistic universe so they ay very well have th technology to beam the 'ghost' along with the body

>>377378085
That's ultimately the point of the 'coin-flip'. There is no metaphysical 'switch' or transfer the way Simon thinks there is. He finally understands this at the end of the game when his copy is sent to the Ark. Every Simon you play as in the game is its own separate incarnation. The game only changes the player's viewpoint for convenience and to continue the grander story.

>You are You
>You walk into a room and meet Someone
>They shake your hand and You die
>They assume your identity and live on
Who are you?

>>377378409

I'm honestly glad they didn't got for the 'you were a robot the whole time' angle because it would have been way too goddamned obvious in what they were going for. I actually liked that they got it out of the way super early on when just about everyone was expecting it to be the 'big reveal'

>>377378430
So they die and are disitergrated and the ghost is rammed into a clone. Fair enough.

>>377378519
Yeah, I felt the same way. I think it's made obvious pretty quickly that what Simon is feeling is wrong and foolish, and you can only really watch as what he thinks he believes is pulled out from under him.

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>>377378498
me

>>377378498
a KANG

>>377377762
Yes since the brain is a biological organ and bound to change its own connection
also determinism makes it so you can only change them in a single predetermined way, making overall (you) a very fixed entity

>>377378519
I get your point. Although they kind of did something similar when they went "Guess what? What's her face is a robot too! Surprise!". Don't really remember how far in that was

>>377378873
still soon, under 45 min of playing or so

>>377377912
Did you not play assasins creed or what?

>>377378873
>Don't really remember how far in that was

Not very far after Simon learns he's a robutt. About 30 minutes later going by a playthrough I just looked up on Youtube

>Be you
>Have a headmate
>Original you dies
>Headmate takes over
>Headmaster brainwashes headmate into thinking they're Napoleon
Who was Napoleon?

>>377378769
>The niggerest
Ever notice hat nyarly never pretends to be white? Dumb ghetto ass we waz kangs n shit wanabee old one.

>>377374179
You fuck, why would you not spoiler that? I just got this game man.

>>377378941
Oh well, maybe I remembered it wrong then. I still stand by my point that making the main character a moron was a mistake. It's interesting to see other people interpreting it differently though. Maybe I was too angry about the coin flip crap to see that they didn't actually try to ask questions about identity, but made it a drama about the main character's denial of his inevitable death. Either way, I think it's a stupid conclusion to a good idea.

>>377378498

If they have literally become an identical copy of me with no knowledge of their prior self, then "Someone" is the person who died. Don't be dumb.

>>377379132
you joke but in some medical cases where the two brain lobes don't communicate at all, they literally have two personalities controlling their sides of the body without fighting for control or anything dramatic. They just have to communicate to the other side visibly.

>>377379447
ok
>You are you
>You walk into a room and meet No One
>You shake No One's hand and then die
>No One becomes You and assumes your identity
Who are you?

>>377379293
It's not exactly a late-game revelation.

>>377379170
well, he was evil and plotted against us for his own enjoyment all the time compared to the other ones who didnt care. Really makes me think.

>>377376903
No you faggot.
You are fucking dead.
What that thing is, is just a robot simulacra doing a bed impersonation of you. As a matter of fact, that thing will cease being anything resembling you in short order for two very important reasons.
It is a fucking robot, and it knows it is not you.

Who you are right now is who you are.
The real question of Soma is if you think that what other people see as your identity is your real identity.
The answer is no. The robot pretending to be you is not you. You are not there or you're fucking dead. Period.

There.
Glad I could fix your bullshit.

>>377379642
I'm Yu.

>>377379642
>Who are you?
I'm me
CHECK AND MATE MOTHERFUCKER!

>>377379765
So you are now a meat puppet doing a bad impersonation of you because you slept, soon you will cease being anything resembling you in short order for two very important reasons
You are a meat puppet, and now you know it

Who you are right now is who you are.
The real question of Soma is if you think that what other people see as your identity is your real identity.
The answer is no. The meat puppet pretending to be you is not you. You are not there or you're fucking dead. Period.

There.
Glad I could fix your bullshit.

>>377379632
I remember leading about this in a psychology elective.
It occurs when that piece of white stuff that connects the left and right hemispheres of the brain isn't formed properly

>>377380208
>So you are now a meat puppet doing a bad impersonation of you because you slept, soon you will cease being anything resembling you in short order for two very important reasons
>You are a meat puppet, and now you know it

No, you retard. All of what you said is retarded. I am not a meatpuppet. I am a living being. The thing you call the mind or conscousness is a masturbatory fantasy.
It does not exist in a vacum or exist outside of the body.
Creating a "perfect copy" of the "mind" will not automagically transport you into a fucking robot you damned child.

The fuck is wrong with you?

>>377380427
That exactly what a meat puppet that thinks it is you would say.

I understand the kind of "philisophical" question this game is trying to evoke, but I always thought this particular kind of scenario was always stupid.
It doesn't really matter if another robot or entity has your memories, experiences, etc.
It's just another instance of you, just like an enemy or MC respawning in a game.
There's always gonna be an original, and everything after is a copy.

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>>377380559
unless there is no original

>>377380559
What about in branching quantum realities? Is the me that made this post or the me that didn't bother the "original"?What about the mes that never even existed?

>>377374179
Your mind doesn't transfer, you're still you.
That robot that has a copy of your mind will be happy, though.

>>377380794
>branching quantum realities
leave that nonsense to hollywood anon

>>377374683
Yet another walking simulator from the company that produces walking simulators.

Still better than fucking Night in the woods, though.

>>377380656
In what scenario would that occur?

>>377380794
They're both originals, just in context of different realities.
They're never going to interact so they can't really be related to each other in terms of being original and copies.
Depending on how said ealities branch off you could technically determine an "original" but what's the point?
Both will continue their existences independent of each other.

>>377381005
>implying that many worlds is not the most reasonable explanation

>>377380656
Do you die when you go to sleep?

>durr you arent really sentient consciousness is an illusion

fuck off, you're basically arguing we should give robots human rights if we just program them to look like they have emotions

>>377379132
Clearly that makes me Big Boss.

>>377381220
yes we should

>>377381189
No you just sleep and rest while your body reorganized itself.

>>377381220
That's not SOMA's argument at all. SOMA's argument is that you can't 'transfer' yourself. Once you're done, you're done. Those things you may have tried to transfer yourself to will live a long and happy life, but you're still fucked.

>>377381280
No we shouldn't.
Unless a self-learning machine can evolve into a sentient consciousness on its own from a lower state then it shouldn't be considered sentient.

>>377381162
that's exactly what I'm implying since the "many worlds" theory is just a bastardization of quantum mechanic theory made specifically for retards to sell comic books

>>377381220
That's the Chinese Room paradox. It has nothing to do with SOMA and its take on robotics.

In SOMA, things are just automatically strong enough to process the power of human cognition. If the things are considered sentient isn't the question at hand: because we have to assume they absolutely are.

>>377381425
>sentient consciousness
cute
he thinks he's sentient and not programmed himself :3

>>377381189
You don't have a continuous state of conciousness so can't prove you aren't an exact copy that someone else makes every night before disposing of the "original".
You also can't prove reality existed at all before you awoke, you might have been created entirely new this morning and everyone is remembering shit that never actually happened because it is all new just with memories and proof it existed before now and there is no way to prove it will continue after the next time you fall asleep.

>>377381609
isn't that what the spacetime loaf thingy theory says in the first place?

i am not good at science

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>>377381128
where everyone just copied something that wasn't real in the first place

>>377381609
Shit I blinked, did the universe end? I must have missed it.

>>377381685
>>377381128
I should have said, copying a copy

Modern quantum physics are hinting that a higher conciousness may exist and the rest of the scientific world can only screech in denial.

>>377381387

If a river bifurcates, where did the original river go?

>>377380559
>There's always gonna be an original
Is there? What if you go to sleep? You lose consciousness then so are you a copy when you wake up?

The real question is: Was the WAU right?

>>377374179
no, that from fucking idiots that know nothing about human biology. you are your entire body not just your brain. so scaning your brain with EMG and putting it on a fucking ssd would not be a copy of you.

take your hormones away and you will go insane and die. lower your hormones and you will change. change your diet and your way of thinking changes.

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>>377381757
>Modern quantum physics are hinting that a higher conciousness may exist and the rest of the scientific world can only screech in denial.

>>377381601
I'm aware of this but the "programming" that creates biological life is due to millions of years of specific conditions along with environmental stimuli experienced in their lifetimes.
So a machine that is programned from the start to behave intelligently can't be considered sentient, it's just another tool.

>>377381954
>Was the WAU right?
ye
It was saving the only life and it seemed like it was getting better at creating shit since it created you too.

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>this thread

>>377381757

>Modern quantum physics are hinting that a higher conciousness may exist.

Anon, stop
Stop

>>377381695
Maybe, blinking is a bit shakier when it comes to conciousness continuation. I personally reckon it isn't but I may only have been reckoning that for a few hours, or seconds if blink fags are correct.

>>377381757
thats called the zodiac and astrology

>>377382101
>>377382035
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_RwcGzGurc

>>377381952
Is a computer a new computer once you turn it off and then on ?
It's just electric signals changing their course in a biological circuit : (you) ain't losing shit

>>377381739
Then there's simply two originals of different hierarchal ranks.

>>377381952
The changes that occur when you sleep are minor and are facets of a dynamic environment you're still you.

>>377382158
people dont turn off and on. but fuck now i feel bad kill my pc every night :(

>>377375029
Burden of proof lies on the positive claim.
Science doesn't have to disprove shit.

>>377382036
how is that different ?
the brain of an baby creates new synapses during its infancy and thus "creates" information
wouldn't a patch log in a machine serve the same purpose ?

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>>377374179
yes, don't sweat it, bro... beep-boop

>>377382158
No because of a single component is ruined my shit dies.
The electricity is bloke the air that humans breathe, an integral part of the system, but not one that defines it per se.

>>377382278
>people dont turn off and on
>What if you go to sleep? You lose consciousness

that's what was implied : that your consciousness is turned off
sorry for your pc anon

>>377382347
Synapses just transfer info

>>377382476
ffs really? your brain is more active during sleep its really complex and im not going into details so fu.

You cant know nuffin, you can't even know that you cant know nuffin.

>>377381885
There never was an original river, or at least the river never thought it was.

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>>377382158
is a human a new human once you stop and start his hear with an electric shock? Stop talking like a wanker.

>>377382228
that's a pretty big perversion of the idea of originality.
this is literally the only relatively reputable thing I can find. run it through google translate.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophie_de_Ghost_in_the_Shell#Stand_Alone_Complex_.28complexe_de_la_solitude.29

>>377374179
No.
Don't believe the devil and his transhumanist propaganda.

If my body regenerates new cells ever so couple months, how do I know I am the original me that existed since the beginning?

If my memories persist, than what if I am simple just the current person born from the last cycle, my next version simply inheriting the memories?

There is no lapse in memory because my next version gets the memories, so how do I know I am the original?

Who am I?

>>377382568
to calculate and store info.

>>377382620
o yeah? well the know the universe arranged atoms in such a way that the universe bacme self aware.

those atoms are you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdxucpPq6Lc
And what of the immortal soul in such transactions? Can this machine transmit and reattach it as well? Or is it lost forever, leaving a soulless body to wander the world in despair?

This is why you get your brain slowly converted to electronic components over time for a seamless transition into digital god-hood.

>>377381885
It became two new rivers the original no longer exists at that point.

>>377382829
I thought this to but in the end there's literally no difference

>>377382673
I've felt like a pretty different person after waking up from anesthesia. Anyone else?

>>377382673
.....dude i got bad news your body is healing 24/7 you are still you because your body is just a avatar the real is you is your soul.

>>377382657
Is this a spoiler? I actually plan on watching this soon.

>>377382673
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQHBAdShgYI

>>377382959
probably. I mean it's the main philosphy behind the whole show.

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>>377382657
Wooo, ghost in the shell !!!

P.S.
Our memories are what firmware/software for PC is.

I think the main problem with this is that for some reason the original has ro exist in one frame of time.
Imo the original of a person is going to be dynamic.
Every second we change, but that's because that's literally what lifeforms are, we're continuously changing and evolving.
So a consciousness that is the ONLY instance of itself existing is still itself even after sleep or any other extended time periods where change occurs.

>>377382586
Your brain is active, you are not concious. You brain is just rearranging shit for the new copy of you to pilot your meat puppet tomorrow.

>>377383170
not quite. the software are the methods you're taught in school. the firmware is the medulla, and memories are the data.

>>377383170
I always think of memories as the user profiles in that sense with the dna acting as an OS

>>377383204

So, no meaningful difference then?

>>377382568
synapses are info
the way neurons connect with each other are the reasons why those infos are THOSE infos

>>377382586
and you were talking about "consciousness"
I know your brain is still active, and so was your motherboard with all those CMOS batteries.

>>377382412
so is electricity

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>>377376705
sometimes I really wonder if we've already truly created sentient beings in their own universe. we have literally become gods of our own creations

>>377383246
look into lucid dreaming, fuck face and out of body experience. nothing of this realm we live in is that simple.

>>377383352
So the new copy of you has a good imagination, horray!

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>>377383347
being labeled as god is terrible - all you hear is whine from your creations, expecting you to solve all their problems at once, or hatespeech and death threats, because they think you are cruel or something.

>>377383352
>lucid dreaming
It still a dream.
>out of body experience
>>>/x/ that board is more your speed

>>377383612
that only applies to an omnipotent god

>>377383352

>I can train my brain to allucinate on command, this proves that counciousness tracends the material.

You sound like a dirty hippy

>>377383650
if your god is not omnipotent, what is the point of worshipping it? Just call it "father" or something then.

>>377383764
get out of your christian safe space.

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>>377383612
>implying you aren't a cruel god finding entertainment in their misery

>>377383764

Man you're dumb.

>>377383970
your mom said i'm good

>>377384009

Necrophilia is illegal anon.

>>377383352
Yeah man! How can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real?

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You can't have a descent discussion of the themes in this game because retarded materialist come crawling every time scared of what they don't know.

>>377374179
Why is Simon so fucking thick?

>>377378498
>Symbols are Compromised

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I'm gonna follow the Bones philosophy.

You fuckers can use transporters and shit if you want to, but nobody's getting me in one of those.
I'll take the scenic route, thank you.

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>>377384089

>>377384449
except for the episodes where he does and they warp to other dimensions and shit

>>377384361
I thought it was implied that his nature as a legacy scan instead of a more comprehensive new one meant that he lacked the capacity to properly learn, so he literally could not understand the new concepts no matter how many times catherine tried.

>>377374807
my dad works for jesus and he said jazz heals the soul
checkmate athiests

>>377384264

I'd say you're way more scared about the world just being material than we are scared about there being something beyond it.

Just me.

>>377384449
literally every main star trek character has gone through the transporter.

even Scotty, the poor bastard who knows exactly how it works and is willing to participate.

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>Am I still really me if my mind gets transferred to a robot?
Are you?

>>377384702
>Take brain out
>Put in robot
Still you
>Download brain contents
>Put in robot
Not you

The more important question is: if you transfer the mind of a blacked QT into a new body, is she an untainted virgin again?

>>377384765
yes

>>377384765

Depends on how you define virginity

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You are you, yet, you aren't much more than data

Or are you?

All of you need to watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg29TuWo0Yo

>>377384994
liberal propaganda

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>>377385617
???

>>377384994
No no no, you need -this-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdxucpPq6Lc

This is perfect for the nature of existence and what it means to be you.

Your brain replicates itself over the years, the you 10 years ago is not the you now both mentally and physically, you are a copy of a copy of a copy

Non existence is the kindest fate for any thing as an eternity of anything would be indistinguishable from hell

>>377374603
>Dog eats burrito in 1 second

I just searched for that video. Jesus christ, that dog is as fat as its owner.

>>377374179
No, you aren't, it's a clone.

I think if you could house and replace your brain one piece at a time you'd preserve yourself though.

>>377374179
>the ending of this game
Shiet man

>>377385810
Nerve cells don't replicate or reproduce.

We get all we have at the get-go.

>>377385727
>Scientists are satan

Jesus christ, this is shit.

>>377374179
It's pretty straight-forward. It's not actually you from the perspective of you right now, but it's you for everyone else.

>>377386017
This is a common misconception

>>377386017
lies and 70's propoganda. it's just complicated.

by the time we figure out how to preserve and regenerate brains, we'll probably have a better understanding of the mechanisms of consciousness. Right now we're just guessing at guesses of the direction things are going to go in.

>>377385810
>>377386017
>>377386175
>>377386198

https://braindecoder.com/post/what-happens-when-neurons-die-do-we-make-more-1219294759

Hippocampus only. Not the entire brain.

>>377386092
It's like you didn't even watch the whole thing, or you're not a very smart person.

>>377384580
>Scotty realized the horrible truth
>No one else accepts it
>Would cause a breakdown in day to day operations if the masses knew teleporters essentially kill you
Drink some more scotch Scotty

>>377386364
>It's like you didn't even watch the whole thing, or you're not a very smart person.

The teleportation machine as a long distance cloner isn't a new idea.

>>377374807
Amen my enlightened brother!

>>377374539

It is you, but another you.

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man why do we gotta have the existential threads at late night

>>377386616
kids like you are why republicans don't like science.

>>377375389

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4Qo9ffOQDo

Relevant

>>377379170

Because he's literally all black, even the parts that are never black in humans like the inside of the mouth and the sclera. It's what makes him creepy, that literally none of him isn't black.

I want to play another game as enthralling as SOMA but not SOMA again because made me feel like shit in the end.

>>377387169
i have no mouth but i must scream
shiki no uta

but yeah that's really just more shitting on yourself really

watch gits

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>>377376780
The universe was created the second you started reading this post. Everything in it, including the memories of everything you've ever done, were there in the universe in the exact way they are upon its creation

>>377386889
I hate how Ricky just shuts down Karl for actually putting some thought into the doppleganger scenario.

>>377387249
I mean in the sense that it's intriguing and well narrated and exposed to have you thrilled till the end

Yet I knew that was going to be what happens, or sort of. Still the deliver is a punch in the gut.

I loved SOMA and it's a masterpiece. The scariest thing isn't the monsters waddling around but the whole scenario.

The WAU seems to have known the dilemma of copying memories so did its best to preserve the body and minds, yet didn't searched for the answer of what it means to be human.

So that's what we get. Forced evolution through complete total sacrifice.

>>377374179
No. Most of your behavior is chemically induced and the machine can't replicate that. There's also other non-neuronal factors that influence behavior, like glial cells and your endocrine system. The best a machine can do is attempt a simulation of you.

>>377374179
Is this game the first time concept like this ever occured to you? Are you 12?

>>377387696
what other media has this you fagot

>>377387680
that's something Soma did right based on this precise flaw
the girl told simon in more than one occasion about this whole deal of creating copies and even in the end he just couldn't grasp it
I like to think that happens because he wasn't wired in such a way that allowed him to

Simon was flawed by both its hardware and software basically

>>377387773
>media
Did you never once in your life think about nature of yourself, cosciousness and possibilities of the future? Do you need media to introduce basic concepts to you as if it's something new you couldn't come up with yourself?

And there definitely are media that deal with this.

>>377387907
His scan was after his crash and his brain damage anyways

He was already D A M A G E D

>>377387289
man, I feel his pain. it really shook me when I learned that most people don't give two shits about any higher thinking/philosophy. it's fucking annoying when you are trying to discuss something deep, but the only people there act like the topics are too complex for them so they just avoid thinking about shit.

>>377387773
Star Trek for one

>>377388071
Because most of the "philosophy" people talk about is just low-key existentialism, and it never goes anywhere or develops in any way. It's a cyclical conversation that raises the same unanswerable questions every single time, it's a waste of time because the same ideas have been incepted literally billions of times.

>>377387773
>Thud! from the Discworld series
>Star Trek
>Doctor Who
>JoJo's Bizarre Adventure

there's plenty of media that explores this

>>377388548
>jojo
???

>>377374179
No, the millisecond you and the "transfered" copy have different experiences, i.e the exact moment of the transfer, you would be separate individuals with the same memories.

>>377387773
Xmen Apocalypse
Star Trek
Dexter's Lab
Jimmy Neutron
Fuck, any clone episode of any show.

>>377389556
This means even if you killed yourself even an attosecond after the tranfer, you and the machine-"you" would be different individuals.

>>377374792
>>377374807
>>377374905

Not the same anon, but I ask you brothers to go to your nearest Catholic Church and pray before a Eucheristic Adorition, or even just a statue of Jesus. Pray for something truly troubling your heart, then see for yourself the true, awesome power of what the eleven disciples (excluding John, though he suffered too) died to preach without earthly reward in mind. The greatest draw to Christ is communication, and the only way is through Prayer.

Go ahead, just one prayer, make an effort to your nearest Catholic Church, and see for yourselves. Don't take my word for it, take Jesus' he'll open the door if you knock - but you have to knock. Glory to the Risen Lord!

>>377387680

>and the machine can't replicate that.

Wrong.

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>he hasn't arranged to be frozen after death
>he hasn't purchased the measly life insurance required to fund his cryonic freezing

>>377374179
Consciousness could never be transfered because you cannot move the soul.

>creating a new being with all my flaws and doubts.
I wouln't wish my existance on anyone.

>>377390097

Correct.
Can't move what doesn't exist.

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>>377390097

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>>377390271
Dont cut yourself with that edge, m80

>>377386379
There is an urban occult style book called Kraken which has a treky nerd who used to teleport startrek style, until he was mostly driven mad by all the previous dead himselves that were haunting him for killing them.

>>377374179
The idea of "Self" and "Consciousness" are immutable reality as understood by each individual, but there is as yet no way to conclusively prove their existence, presence, or even nature. Best understanding is that consciousness is generated by the activity of your mind. The question thus becomes if you were to perfectly replicate the sequence chemical reactions which generate your unique "Self" in another entity, would it be possible to then "Transfer" your conscious experience? To have a sense of continuity between "Old" and "New"?

In SOMA you have the death cult that solved this quandary by committing suicide at the moment of copying, avoiding the question altogether. As Simon you are given the chance to replicate this method when transferring to the Deep Sea Suit. Conversely, the only reason we perceive even the chance of "Transfer" being possible in the game is because, as a game, its PoV is entirely mutable. Thus we experience Simon's consciousness leaping forward in time, jumping to another new body, and then failing to enter the Ark, losing at the "Coin Flip", in a way that is entirely impossible to prove in reality.

Personally I find the most fascinating part of the game to be thinking about things from Catherine's PoV. To her there's no evidence of a continuation of consciousness, and Simon's mad ramblings about a "Coin Flip" naught more than the faulty misunderstanding of a clone trying to come to terms with the duality of its existence. Which is all it really is, in all likelihood. It would be completely possible to ever prove "Continuity", as no matter what there would always be a "Before" who perceived a "Transfer" as failed, and an "After" who believes it a success.

Unless you kill yourself of course.

>>377387773
Altered Carbon

>>377390004
the idea of being woken up in a future where everyone and everything i care about is gone does not appeal to me at all
you will probably end up in a homeless shelter since you will most likely not have the skillset to be employable

>>377390950
Any transhumanist stuff in general really, but the Altered Carbon series is pretty fucking sweet. Pity they will probably fuck up the TV series.

>>377390872
>To her there's no evidence of a continuation of consciousness
are you talking about her turning off and on ?

>>377391271
No about her watching Simon "Move" from one body to another.

>>377389754
Judas was the true son of god.

>>377384702
That bitch was crazy.

Guise.
What if I already am robots?

>>377390983
>future
>employment
>homeless

??

>>377390594
>using logic and common sense is now edgy

>>377393665
>look at me mum im so logical
*tips fedora*

>>377393705
Not him but following the thread you're saying that he's edgy because he's an atheist?
you can tip your fedora at me all day if you want but there's nothing edgy about being an atheist.

>>377374179
Unless you believe in an immaterial soul, it is not you. Remaining "you" requires continuity. Any destruction and reconstruction breaks continuity. Teleportation a la Star Trek is the same way. I don't know how to feel about sleep and unconsciousness though. It's almost the same, the loss of awareness and such. Honestly I don't think it really matters if it doesn't make you feel uncomfortable.

I can tell you that the current "you" would not be aware of the new you though. Each consciousness is identical by definition, but they're not the same one. Hypothetically if you could upload your mind you could make infinite copies of yourself, but you wouldn't be aware of them simultaneously.

Honestly talking about this is all about tautologies. Depending on how you define existence and identity the answer will be a bit different, but always obvious. The answer is practically in your chosen definition. If "you" consists of information only, it can be copied and multiplied. If it is something deeper, then there is no way to reconstruct or truly copy it.

>>377374179
oh my god this game gave me an existential crisis for like 3 weeks

It'll be okay anon really

>>377394329
>Remaining "you" requires continuity
I'm not saying you're wrong, but that would mean you literally die every time you go to sleep or unconscious. This shit gave me some serious anxiety and panic attacks back in the day when I first thought of that.

There are people ITT who literally never thought about this shit before being spoonfed by this game.

honestly I thought the whole ARC thing was pretty dumb

why would everyone bother with creating it if only your digital copies would get to live in it while you rotted away in a decaying world? it's literally just a server with sims on it, it would be entirely different though if there was a way to transfer your consciousness onto it though

>>377396448
>it's literally just a server with sims on it
you are literally just a server with sim on it, what's your point?

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>>377389754
>Catholic

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>>377376694
They never said that's the case though. It's just something Simon hypothesized to keep himself in denial, like many people would. Catherine didn't argue with him because she wanted to finish the launch. It's not like scientists in the game said "well according to this research there is a coin flip." Yes, there were scientists believing that when they kill themselves that they get to be the copy but it was coming from a crazy guy.

So they didn't fuck anything, they actually managed to explore the faults of human mind perfectly. From the game's point of view there is no actual coin flip. Learn to differentiate between in lore character opinions and actual game opinions.

>>377374179
It's a tough one.

Absurdly underrated game btw, they failed at marketing.

>>377396653
my consciousness

the sims on the arc obviously have their own separate consciousness since they are copies and not transfers, so building them a virtual home in space means you'll never ever get to experience it yourself

>>377397157
Every time you go to sleep, your consciousness shuts off and dies. Every time you wake up, an identical copy of your consciousness arises again and doesn't even know it happened. You don't get to experience continued existence even now in your life, so what's the difference from transfering yourself and dying?

>>377374179
>Where is the ghost in the machine?
This is an old philosophical question.
You could still be you.
You could be someone else.
It is really up to you to define yourself in such a moment.

>>377376705
>We can determine the physical reactions in the brain which cause emotion, behaviour, memory etc
>we can conclusively prove consciousness because as far as we can tell, it isn't physical phenomena
The cognitive dissonance is so striking this is actually making me mad. Do you even think before you write this piece of shit down?

There is a test where you are tasked to push a button at any time you personally want. It's completely up to you. The observer can predict with 100% accuracy when you are going to do it before you even know you decided that you are going to push it now since parts of your brain are activated. That itself proves your consciousness is physical. Another way to prove your consciousness is food and drugs. You are constantly hallucinating (even when sober), but the hallucination is different on various drugs.

>>377381387
This is wrong. If you replace your brain with cybernetics slowly, letting yourself adapt, you will have an uninterupted stream of consciousness

>>377389754
I prayed when I was a kid and my dad got hit by a truck, but it didn't help

>>377375982
Extremely red-pilled answer my friend. It's refreshing to see people ITT understanding consciousness not just as something tied to a physical body, but as a weird abstract collection of experiences with no clear borders or identity, rather a specific shape.

>>377384741
this guy gets it.

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>>377380427
But you are a biological puppet and if I cloned you there would be two biological puppets. One would be the original you and the other the perfect copy on a genetic level thinking it is you. Lets say you would know you are going to be a participant of a cloning experiment. If you were cloned and replaced during your sleep with a perfect biological copy with the same clothes, same bed, and you were placed into the cloning machine, you would reason you are a copy and the copy would think it is you just because of frame of reference. The REAL subtle point of SOMA is that what really is you is based on your frame. Simon was Simon just because he was living in Toronto and had particular friends and so on.

>>377381220
>i never played the game yet i want to give my opinion
fuck off go back

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>>377390004
>wake up in the future
>humans are gone
>only things left are endless-legged centipedal demons that sucked the insides out of everyone

>>377390872
The easy way to prove it is the fact there is nothing written on the scanned cortex chip in the same way there is nothing written into the biological brain that was scanned back in Toronto. It's all read only so the experimenter always knows which one is the original. Some participants even managed to kill themselves before the scanning process was complete so a cryopreserved brain could be scanned into a robot or virtual reality (ignoring the corruption of data because of increasing entrophy of organic matter), but it's still just a copy of that biological information, there is no data movement. Also the scanned copy doesn't have to be activated right away. Therefore it's easy to make a point that killing yourself is game over.

>>377399442
Why would they wake you up though?

>>377389754
I don't intend to pray, but I literally have no idea how to do it.
Priests in movies usually go like "You'll know. Just do it." but niggah NO I just said I don't fucking know.

>>377399914
>"Bruh, gimme some o' dat sweet ____"
What did the Demon Centpiede ask for, /v/?

>>377382064
Not to mention all of the thinking, speaking abominations. It might have been insane, but there was nobody except Catherine alive anyway. No reason not to let it keep going, keep living, and keep producing more minds.

Simon's arrival at the start of the game was the moment WAU succeeded in reviving humanity. And if that dream moment where Simon woke up in Wauflesh was a good idea of WAU's plans, then he's going to bring everyone he has scans of back to life and stick them into the matrix.

>>377376694
>>377397014
Yep. Catherine knew that Simon was wrong, but she didn't want him to break down when he realized what he was doing and what would eventually happen if he succeeded. So she just changed the subject uncomfortably whenever it happened.

But the thing is, the devs kind of mess with you in that you always follow Simon's latest iteration even from the very original version of him. So you subconsciously start thinking it's like you're jumping from body to body, leaving copies behind, instead of just changing perspectives to the newest simon.

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>>377377008

>>377401127
The advantages of a medium with such a controllable PoV.

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>>377401127
If you are surprised by what happens when you copy yourself into the diving suit it can be waved since you are focusing so much on so many details that you may forget it's not an actual transfer. The game switched perspective only once and there is this project with people trying to go to the Ark so alright. But if you are surprised by the very end you are ignorant or retard. The dive suit scene even has loud robotic female announcer say "copy complete" before Simon starts arguing that nothing happened.

>>377374179
> Am I still really me if my mind gets transferred to a robot
No, the point when you are transferred you are no longer you, you are that robot, with you are going to call you.

>>377374576
>Your consciousness is contained in the electrical activity taking place between your neurons.

Scientists are still debating this theory, currently trending towards doubting it, or at least the exclusivity of consciousness tied to said activity.

there's basically no good reason not to fuck the robot

>>377382146

>related videos: crop circles, aliens, UFOs, psi abilities

>>377382146
His drawings are very pretty.

>>377401897
There is a consensus in the scientific community. 7% of scientists have some supernatural faith in god so perhaps those 7% disagree, but overall there is not really a debate about this.

t. I was working in the field of neurology

>>377374539
Makes me think nothing is truly ever original. Our primary language, handed down to us. Beliefs? Passed down to us. If we think differently, chances are someone else has already thought that way before. If everything we do, say, or believe in has been done before, its almost as if we really don't exist as unique individuals with originality.

Spoiler alert: this idea has been thought of before and stated by someone. That someone else was also human like me. Nothing new to read here, move along.

Spoilers

I think a lot of people wondering why Simon was so dumb are forgetting that Simon is essentially the player's insert. You and Simon know the truth that there is no coinflip, but it's the excuse you need to keep playing/going. Simon's flip out at the end isn't because he was angry he was fooled, he's angry because he knows he can't run from the truth any more and realises it was all for something he will never see

I think in that sense Simon is surprisingly admirable

>>377402887
>7%
> not really a debate about this.
do you know nothing about statistics?
7% is a significant amount

>>377374603

Consciousness is self-evident you retard. No way around disproving it.

>>377402960
>Makes me think nothing is truly ever original
True. We look at ourselves as a singular entity which is wrong. We are what we remember and what we carry inside. Even if you transfer your mind into a machine that would still be you. As long as some data persists we live. This is why we procreate, because through offsprings we continue to exist. This was the only solution nature could come up with to counter death. Immortal body, organic or not, is what we as a specie should strive for logically, because it would preserve "us" at maximum possible accuracy.

>>377403370
Let me spoonfeed you. There is no debate between people whose opinion actually matters. That is people who studied the subject. If 7% of people disagree it's a major acceptance, it's a consensus, but again I was never interested in math so enjoy showing me how ignorant I am.

You can say something like
>well, but the brain is just receiver of cosmic information similar to radio antenna
Alright. But then I am done because you can't prove your claim and there is nothing suggesting such occurence happening even if it does. Maybe once our machinery gets more refined it will be proven in the future with hard data but right now the only point of your conciousness is coming from your central nervous system, and is altered by various chemical substances that may or may not originate in the brain.

>>377403471
But it isn't. You can't prove you are conscious even if you think you are. Experimental testing proves that consciousness is just an aftereffect of complex brain functions. If you decide to respond to this message your brain already made that decision before the subjective you even knew it.

>>377404538
>yeah...I don't...just...feell like it
not an iron clad anything or even tissue clad cum rag. that's jizzing on the family car because you don't know how to ride it.

>>377404676
zen archery proves otherwise

>>377404915
No, it proves I am right.

>>377404676

you're talking about determinism, i'm talking about perception

>>377405027
I am talking about neurology. If you are told to pick an object any time you want and the timing is up to you, the experimenter will successfully predict it before you subjectively make that decision because your consciousness is just an afterthought, an emergent property of these problem-solving complex mechanisms within our brains.

In the useless philosophical sense you can't really say anyone is conscious because everything can be just a simulation created for your brain floating in a jar. Am I really a conscious person or just a program exchanging information with you? What if you are just a simulation thinking you are real, but still just meticulously programmed to act the way you were defined to in present of various stimuli?

whats the big deal about soma when everybody knows we are actually just ghosts piloting meat suits

>>377405505
>muh simulation
An universe with N particles can only simulate N-M particles max. M being the count of particles that aren't used by the machine's storage system (For example the machine can't use the particles of other planets, other galaxies, the machine itself, etc.. )
This means that each simulation can only simulate an universe with less particles than the one the simulation is located in. Consequently this means that all consecutive simulations decrease in quality.

>>377405505

just because there are constraints on free will doesn't mean one cannot be conscious

>>377406126
This is all pointless philosophy alright, but there is no way to know if we are in a simulation or not.

>>377406301
It also doesn't mean you are conscious.

>>377390004
>cryonics company goes bankrupt
>ditches your shit corpse in the gutter

nice

>>377406082
The deal is if you copy a version over is it still you.
Well, the answer is no because the continuous consciousness would not pass over.