Where do you stand on the "coaching" controversy?

>>377335223
Because in the end it all comes down to your own abilities.

I once had a guy stand behind me and tell my opponent when to block my overhead kick. It was a rough time.

But isn't that what sports teams do?

>>377335625
A coach is part of the team.

They stopped coaches from being with the teams during matches during CS:GO as well. I like it that way because it puts more emphasis on the in game leader to recognize things and make calls as opposed to having someone dedicated to it standing behind them and having all 5 players basically demoted to unthinking aim machines.

>>377335223
It is as retarded if someone asked to not analyze LeL/Dota matches for stats

>>377335223
Not that I know much about Smash, but I'd say it's ok when you're between games, but not when the match is being played.

Or get your own coach.

t. mad he got shat on.

>mentioning a fucking supercomputer

Are you autisitc?

>>377336014
This. It's a completely sensible solution, but someone will bitch about it and needlessly elongate the community's discussion.
There's nothing wrong with learning MUs or techniques from others, as long as it's you who's recalling that knowledge mid-match. Coaching is acceptable in other sporting mediums because it's a presumed condition of professional play, and an industry in itself; it isn't equal, but it's more ubiquitous - which mitigated that gap between coached and uncoached players. I get the feeling that the FGC can't accommodate that yet, so keep coaching outside of matches.

I don't give a fuck if you're gonna get coached, but I'm dead fucking tired of these asswhipes taking 5 minutes between every match of a BO5 for some jagoff to pat them on the shoulder and say IT'S OKAY BRUH YOU GOT BRUH THIS JUST STAY FOCUSED BRUH YOU'RE LOSING IN THE NEUTRAL BRUH JUST BE PATIENT BRUH. Hungrybox literally paid money to hire a fucking sports psychologist to coach him, it's ridiculous. Every major needs to start strictly enforcing the coaching rules that have recently started popping up, which are usually any or all of the following:
>ONE coach per player allowed on the stage at any given time
>a maximum of 60 between matches
>coaches get the fuck off the stage after their coaching period is over
>sometimes coaching is even banned once pools are over

>>377336738
>>a maximum of 60 between matches
*60 seconds

Coaching doesn't guarantee a win. Receiving coaching via cellphone is weird though.

File: 1483431064437.jpg (156KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

156KB, 1280x720px

>>377336738
I agree with this.
Yeah I don't care for it personally, but if they're going to do it their needs to be rules about it. You constantly have not just one but like 2 to 3 guys go up to the fighter and talk to him for minutes. That's fucking bullshit.
>1 coach
>1 minute in between rounds
>After the minute COACH NEEDS TO LEAVE THE FUCKING STAGE
There. But on a personal note I do hate it, it's supposed to be me and the opponent. If my opponent wasn't smart enough or good enough to study the fighters in the game that's on them fuck them.
It's stupid they can have someone run up and tell them "Oh that move he's doing is -2, punish it with your M kick into combo." Like fuck that, he should've known about that himself.

I think there shouldn't be coaching midset, once you start game 1 that's it until the set is over.

As expected of pissbabies.
Always finding something to complain about.

>>377337395
I think so too

File: meme1.png (2KB, 389x293px) Image search: [Google]

2KB, 389x293px

>>377337395
Hmm, I agree with this.

Maybe Smash community should learn to bathe and use deodorant before properly trying to combat such "issues"

>>377337395
Pretty much this and then a limit on how long the coaching actually lasts, I've seen too many sets where they wait out the winners hot-streak to fuck with his flow so the losing party can mentally get an advantage. A lot of buzz-words there, but I can't think of how to put it otherwise.

ehh, real sports have them, be it a team sport, or one on one shit.
I honestly don't really see anything wrong with it, unless it's some retarded shit like >>377335561
Like it's fine, but don't be an ass and just plain out stand behind the opponent fucking with him

>>377338017
Deodorant is an item. Items are for scrubs.

>>377337381
>>377337395
I'm also against coaching in general because a player shouldn't just be the hands for many minds to be telling them what to do, but it's much harder to enforce. If someone's looking at their "notes" on a phone, how do we know they're not being texted by a friend? So in the meantime, the bare minimum should be immediately cutting down how much it disrupts tournaments and kills their opponents' momentum.

>>377337395
How exactly would you enforce this? What if the "coach" just sits offstage and yells advice to you.

>>377335223
Relevent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_x-SWVeCEQ

>>377338257
That's why you have people near the players that can stop that shit flat out. Penalties exist for a reason. Coach is standing a foot away coaching mid-match? Lose a round.

File: allsmiles.png (93KB, 300x225px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 300x225px

>It's a smashfag complains about a long established FGC concept episode

>>377338176
How come the fgc always has arguments about coaching but it has never been a problem in say, boxing for instance?

File: 1493312836829.png (89KB, 512x512px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 512x512px

It shouldn't be allowed. Most of the justifications people have for it are retarded. "If we want to be taken seriously we need to have it" when all of the real sport comparisons you can make to Smash Bros either have coaching outright banned or it's up to the TO's discretion.

It benefits top players over randoms, though. So it will probably remain a rule.

>>377338397
What if the coach is yelling advice from a distance say from the crowd or something?

>>377338617
Same thing, designate who the coach is, if they make nonsense like that you take a round from their player. Its not fucking rocket science.

Does it really matter?

>>377338671

>he ain't my coach, he's just a fan who shows up to every one of my matches.

Coaching in team e-sports is fine imo.
In FGs? FUCKING RETARDED.

>>377338257
>How exactly would you enforce this? What if the "coach" just sits offstage and yells advice to you.

You can't do that, if your designated coach tries to shout out things to help you during play the player that coach is assigned to is disqualified. ZeRo should have been disqualified against Xzax had he not lost to him anyways because he was shouting things to him. Pierce also did the same thing in doubles against ANTi but he didn't enforce the rule, ZeRo/Nairo would have been disqualified.

File: Robert%20Guy(3)[1].jpg (35KB, 640x486px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 640x486px

>>377338763

I know, down-right retarded.

Smash autists continue to prove why they're a running joke

>>377338671
So what if a random person in the crowd is yelling advice? Do you still penalize them? What's to stop the coach from just getting a regular ticket and yelling from the crowd?

>>377338758
and that would be easy to identify numbnuts. Most events have a large gap between the players and the crowd. This strat would only work at locals and even then people would realize oh hey that fellow pro player is yelling at Fchamp every match.

Stop being retarded.

>>377335802
Not in Boxing.

e-sports is made up of whiny bitches that were nothing BUT whiny bitches trying to pretend they are something they ain't.

>>377338115
Underrated

>>377338787
>designated coach

So you can just get someone who isn't your designated coach to give you advice

>>377335223
If "coaches" should be banned from Smash, then why not ban spotters in racing, who give direct info to the racers through a headset? Why not ban coaches from boxing for telling their fighter that the opponent has a weak left jab? Why not ban an audience that could shout backseat gaming tips, or worse, hide a coach?
This is stupid, let them stay.

>>377338905

Yeah, easy to identify my ass. If some rando buys a legitimate ticket and shouts advice to everyone, how are you going to justify kicking him out (aside from a blanket rule of "audience members may not shout")?

Even if such people could be identified, that opens up an even worse problem. I will hire a man to shout advice at my opponents, getting them penalized.

>>377335561
THIS is the real problem with "coaching". You have an asshole being a distraction intentionally.

i thought these guys wore noise cancelling head phones during matches?

>>377338458
I think it's a problem with video games because they're rigid and solvable pieces of software. A coach can look at you losing, consult some documentation, and feed you a winning strategy. In fighting games for instance, a coach can look up frame data and tell you which of your character's normals are the most plus on block and what your opponent's fastest start-up normal is, which varies from character to character. Oh, your coach reminds you that your opponent's jab recently got nerfed from 3 frames of start-up to 4 frames in a recent patch or something? Well there you go, he's not going to be able to deal with such-and-such pressure. It just feels iffy to me. It should be the player's responsibility to know this stuff. Then you get something like >>377335561 which is just ridiculous. There needs to be rules.

I feel as if it's different than boxing because in boxing you don't have complete randoms fighting top prizefighters. You won't have an instance of someone who's paid a lot for an experienced coach fighting someone who might not even afford to have one.

Say like a top 10 player faces someone who isn't known to be top 10, but is perhaps top in his region and might reasonably have a shot against the top player. Except with coaching he has another thing aside from skill level to worry about, he might not be able to afford a good coach or even have one but the top player he's facing does. He has someone to go over there and help him notice things that the player isn't noticing.

>>377339090
Once again look at damn near every major even ever and realize how fucking difficult this would be to pull off when there is an average of 50-100 feet from the main stage and the crowd. If some asshat is going out of their way to yell at the players in such a manner they get kicked out, that simple.

Once again, not fucking rocket science.

Normally the FGC commentators are pretty good for calling out players shit and getting them to settle the fuck down.

What the fuck were they doing when that phone call in the middle of the match happened?

>>377335223
>Smash shitters need someone to tell them what to do
Kek baby game for fucking tards

>>377339056
You have to get a coach designated. I'd imagine if there are rules against trying to coach someone who you aren't designated to as well. Perhaps the person doing so is taken out of the building.

>>377339082
Remember that Smashfags are special snowflakes

>>377339082

In actual sports events there are rules governing what coaches can and can't do.

Lets take football for example can you really imagine, a coach running out onto the pitch when a free kick is about to be taken, stalling the game, making all the players move around and then having a phone conversation? Can you imagine that shit?

Sore losers always gotta come up with a term for something to excuse to the fact that they got rekt because they weren't giving it their A game

>>377339189
Video games are not solvable. Or to put it more precisely, using all the computing power in the world right now for the next thousand years you could not prove a game like Guilty Gear solvable.

>>377335223
just sounds like whiny bitches trying to chalk up their failure to anyone but themselves.

>>377339357
Having a someone else watch what you're doing and seeing what mistakes you made is a real great way to beat your opponent.

It's perfectly fine honestly.

>>377335223
>Competitive smash is slow enough that you can call a friend mid-match to get advice.

yup

>Competitive smash is deep enough that the tactical info gained through this call can make a difference.

now that's surprising

The tears are delicious, how long before you ban tutorial and combo videos?

>>377339189
No different than a boxing coach telling you he sees Mayweather's right side drooping a little bit, and telling you he got hit hard there in his last match (in between rounds).

In fact, in boxing, you can yell shit out during the match too, it just won't really be heard.

Would you tell your friends to "stop cheating" if you and your buddy were playing smash and they were yelling shit out like "wave dash wave dash!"

There is literally no difference. The only thing I'd say is designated coaches and a time limit for practicality's sake.

>>377339189
>boxing match
>coach tells me between rounds that every time my opponent throws his right hand he steps his front foot out first and he drops his left hand way low
>next round notice my opponent's front foot come forward
>sidestep his right
>counter with a right hook after he drops his left hand
>ko

How is this different from what you've described?

>>377339547

That's not an argument for banning coaches that's an argument for, like you said, making sure coaches stay within the "delay of game" guidelines that already exist.

Exceptions should be made for the smash community.
Maybe tournaments could hire some designated tard wranglers to coach the autists who attend them?

>>377339547
Going out into the field mid-game would be the equivalent of standing in front of the screen or hitting a player's controller. Standing behind your player is different. Standing by your player's opponent is just asking to get a smack to the face for space invasion.

File: 1494967416909.gif (296KB, 634x576px) Image search: [Google]

296KB, 634x576px

>>377339547
>Lets take football for example can you really imagine, a coach running out onto the pitch when a free kick is about to be taken, stalling the game, making all the players move around and then having a phone conversation? Can you imagine that shit?
Everything besides running out on the pitch.

>>377335223

I think coaching between sets is fine but shit like >>377335561 where someone is shouting advice mid-match is a major distraction to everyone who isn't the player being coached.

Other than that, my only beef with coaching is that it perpetuates the cliquishness of the upper echelons of many games because the best players get expert advice and everyone else gets dick.

>>377339623
You couldn't be more wrong. You've explicitly said the opposite of what is true.

>>377339395
You'd have a lot of trouble enforcing that.

>>377339932
You really fucking wouldn't.
>Guy is yelling at people on stage a good 30 feet away
>Isn't the named Coach stated by the player before match
>Kicked out of the fucking building
So fucking hard to enforce man, how the fuck could they ever do it, its impossible!

>>377339884
Do you know what it takes to solve a simulation you fucking retard?

Games like Marvel or Guilty Gear or Starcraft are too complex to solve. It's literally impossible today. If it isn't, show me an example of a solved game. Show me the solution to Starcraft you fucking idiot. Being able to find little scenarios in a game and finding some optimal solution there IS NOT what solving a game means, you fucking idiot.

>>377339839
How is that different that people yelling during a boxing match, UFC match, football match, soccer match, basketball match, hockey match, etc.?

Literally all of which have between sets coaching as well.

Dealing with distraction is part of playing a sport. Only exception I see are turned based sports (golf, darts, chess, etc.)

>>377339839
>I think coaching between sets is fine but shit like >>377335561 where someone is shouting advice mid-match is a major distraction to everyone who isn't the player being coached.
Time to ban crowds then
It's never a distraction if the coach is telling your opponent to do something then use it to your advantage, bait the fucker to do what the coach is yelling and punish
Coaching mid match is just stupid for everyone involved

>>377335223
Who the fuck cares? It's fucking competitive Smash. Like the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

>>377339547
that football coach and everyone else on the sideline could be yelling PASS or RUN to help the defense

>>377339884
If they are perfectly solvable then why does anyone ever lose?

>>377339932
I don't see how. If the person was actually trying to make it so the player he's trying to help hears him then he'll be heard by staff at the event too and then subsequently removed from the building.

>>377339738
>In fact, in boxing, you can yell shit out during the match too, it just won't really be heard.
It can definitely be heard 99% of the time. Only when the whole crowd is cheering can you not hear the coach yelling out to the guy. The point is that the coach doesn't have to yell everything he sees the whole match, just a couple little things to help his fighter along. It's not going to make sense for a coach to scream "Drop your defenses and hit him with a haymaker RIGHT NOW!" or "He's throwing a quick jab, duck it in the 0.1 seconds it takes for him to throw one of those!"

>>377339623
I feel that solvability is a spectrum. Something being safe or unsafe on block is mathematically solved no matter how you approach it. Player reactions can vary wildly, but it's generally scientifically understood that something under 6 frames will be unreactable by a human being with reaction times, execution, and input delay. This is info a player should know or adapt to on their own, instead of having someone look it up and feed it to them mid-match.

I think they should just have a cylindrical soundproof glass screen with a stereo in the top come down during matches. Once it goes down, it doesn't rise up until the set is over.

>>377340151
>>377340170

You really don't think someone screaming your next move into your ear is going to distract you?

>>377340060
>some guy in the crowd shouts "watch the down smash"
>ejected
>someone shouts "hit him"
>ejected
>crowd chants "defence"
>everyone ejected

>>377340361
If your coach is screaming at you, he's your coach, you hired him to do that. If the opponent's coach is yelling in your ear, push him over to his player.

as long as you have rules to actually enforce it (1 coach only, no phone calls, set time for coach advice between matches) I don't see the problem

>>377340536
>Crowd versus one person
Oh so you're retarded then like all smash players, good.

>>377340197
>>377340129
Are you seriously so stupid to think that a BOT is incapable of perfecting a human every time in a fighting game with modern computers?

>>377340348
This is basically what happens with CSGO matches. Last thing you want is the audience OOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH FUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCK when you're being a sneaky sneak. I think in Smash though, they should make it airtight and not let them ever

>>377340542
>I have to stop playing mid-match to physically shove an opponent's coach away from me
>and this is totally fine

>>377340318
Yes, in certain scenarios certain things beat other things. The same is true in something like chess for example.

That does NOT mean that you solved it. That means in that scenario 4 beats 6. In a solved game you might actually lose certain trades to put yourself in an optimal scenario 1 minute later in the game.

>>377340261
You can hear them but you're not going to be distracting yourself by listening to their cues unless you have a good bit of distance between yourself and the fighter.

It's not like a coach can yell "duck in the third frame of his animation!" and have it matter at fucking all. You can't divide your attention like that.

>>377340361
We don't give a shit during boxing matches, why should we give a shit during FG matches? Obviously they shouldn't be on the stage during the round, but let's be real you'd push any "coach" out of your face if they WERE in your ear in that situation.

>>377340583
That is literally just not what it means to solve a computer game. You're uneducated about this subject and saying uneducated things.

>>377340697
If an audience member ran up to the stage, you'd shove him off the stage wouldnt you?

>>377340582
What about the first two examples?

>>377340583
Do you think that somehow has an implication on the definition of solving a game? Humans are irrelevant to the equation.

>>377335223
Sounds like cheating

>>377340792
>If an audience member ran up to the stage
That round would be scratched. If someone jump scares a bowler, it's a free rethrow in most league settings.

>>377339650
>Julio
>PR Balrog
>Smash players

>>377340583
Explain how bots are relevant to this discussion.

>>377340542
>>377340697
>>377340792
>have to expend your physical energy to shove some guy aside while your opponent has no such handicap.

Coaching is fine but should be regulated. Needs to be registered before the event begins, and coach support should only be available between sets. Stops bullshit taking calls and stops people from coaching just to get revenge for their loss. Coaching is useful but it comes off as shit because no tournament regulate.

There is not one single sport I can think of where coaching isn't allowed in between rounds that isn't turn based.

If every other sport can handle the "oooh spooky distraction" of someone talking or getting a pep-talk between rounds, then you're fucking pussies compared to even the wimpiest of sports.

>>377341038
If the opponent has no such handicap, then the answer is to attack your opponent too. He can't win the match if he's incapacitated. It's like chess boxing.

>>377341157
What's stopping their coach from just randomly yelping and or making distracting moaning sex sounds in your ear?

>>377341038
I agree that should be penalized but it doesn't mean coaches should be banned altogether

>>377340736
>That is literally just not what it means to solve a computer game. You're uneducated about this subject and saying uneducated things.
I'm not uneducated on it. I know what "solving" something means, shitfucker, and solving a fighting game is easier than solving chess, for a machine. Chess comes down to strategy and positions. Fighting games come down to hard counters to any moves. The fact that games going back to the 32 bit era have AIs that you literally cannot connect a single hit on prove that you're stupid and thinking "THAT's not solving!!!! HUHR DUHR HUHRR!!! SOLVING MEANS EVERY PIXEL AND EVERY FRAME HAS BEEN MAPPED OUT DUHRRR RAPE MY MOUTH" with a Dunning-Kruger-brand dildo up your ass.

>>377341281
fists

>>377341281
Make a rule against it...

>>377340792
Are you being retarded on purpose?
The people running the event would remove him and the round would be cleared.

File: 1429798233373.png (276KB, 586x634px) Image search: [Google]

276KB, 586x634px

>>377338115

>>377341367
Are you stupid? You can move in fighting games. Also, Go machines are becoming better Go players than every human, however Go still isn't solved. WINNING ON AVERAGE IS NOT A SOLUTION TO A GAME. Even if you never lose that does not mean you solved a game. Even if the AI never loses it doesn't mean it's solved the game. When you are solving something, you are PROVING something. You still have not demonstrated any proof about anything and just keep saying MOVES BEAT OTHER MOVES.

Hey chess is the same way retard. It's fundamentally how decisions are made in it.

>>377341281
Name one sport that allows coaches on the field during play barring injury.

Off the stage during the round, but can be yelling shit from off stage if they want to, on for a set period between rounds talking to their guy.

>>377341367
So there is a solution that will guarantee a win every time? If a computer plays a computer either the first will always win or the second will always win?

Being able to beat humans does not mean a game is solved. Go isn't solved, but computers (very recently) can almost reliably beat humans. Nim is solved.

Again, you're just uneducated on this subject. You don't understand what solved means because solved does not mean "better than what a human can do"

>>377341163
But then you have to beat up the coach too, who is typically a bigger guy, resulting in a greater handicap by the time you have to confront your opponent.

>>377341508
Are you?
The OP never brought up anything like the Coaches purposefully distracting players as reason to ban him, just that players shouldn't have info. I'm just making fun of the people who are only naysayers because "what's stopping the coaches from being an autistic manchildren to the opponents?"

>>377341281
You get a coach that does the same thing to them then...

>>377341748
follow the reply chain, fag

>>377341727
That's why, to train for the next Smash tourney, you need to get buff as fuck, and hire a professional bodyguard as your coach.

You have coaches but they have a limited time and must get over a miniature assault course to reach your guy

>all smash matches from now on have a side-show where coaches are beating the shit out of each other
fucking fund it

>>377339738
>No different than a boxing coach telling you he sees Mayweather's right side drooping a little bit, and telling you he got hit hard there in his last match (in between rounds).
>In fact, in boxing, you can yell shit out during the match too, it just won't really be heard.

That doesn't mean that a punch you throw to his right side will connect. You yourself may not have the strength to exploit it. In contrast, anon's scenario, here

>>377339189
>In fighting games for instance, a coach can look up frame data and tell you which of your character's normals are the most plus on block and what your opponent's fastest start-up normal is, which varies from character to character. Oh, your coach reminds you that your opponent's jab recently got nerfed from 3 frames of start-up to 4 frames in a recent patch or something? Well there you go, he's not going to be able to deal with such-and-such pressure.

Whatever moves give you the advantage over your opponent's character will remain true and constant throughout the entire match and on any machine with that game version. Coaching is much more powerful in a fighting game as opposed to boxing since the matchups for a game are rigid.

>>377341717
>Name one sport that allows coaches on the field during play barring injury.
The problem is coaches "coaching" during sets, Ano

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_tournament#Player_conduct
>Players can not make any use of any outside information. This includes advice, notes, and analysis of another chess board. During play, a player is forbidden to have a mobile phone and/or other electronic means of communication in the playing venue. If it is evident that a player brought such a device into the playing venue, he shall lose the game. The opponent shall win. Chess scoresheets may be used for recording matters relevant to the game. Players should not distract or annoy their competitor in any way. Once a player has finished their game, they are considered a spectator. Refusal of a player to comply with the rules may result in penalty, up to and including forfeiture of the game or even disqualification of the player. If two opponents both refuse to obey the rules, the game may be considered lost by both players.
See, I'd argue video games are more similar to board games like chess than sports, and should follow the same rules. Once a player steps onto the stage, they should be alone until they step off it after their set is over. This is impossible to enforce in pools where dozen of people are gathered around a setup in a ballroom hall, but beyond that it should be banned like in the EVO rules.
>There is no coaching during any tournament match beyond pools.
>There is a maximum of 60 seconds allowed between games in a set.
They put their foot down on this shit and everyone should follow their example. The only iffy part to me is whether a winners side player in grand finals should be afforded the same opportunity every else was if they get knocked into losers side for a second grand finals set. What are the rules regarding a second set of grand finals? Are you allowed to go to the bathroom or something in between?

Smash was a mistake and it is time for its autistic, cancerous player base to be euthanized.

>>377341886
Ah, then that is an equitable agreement of terms.

>>377342027
You may not have the reaction time to input the proper sequence of button presses after hearing either. You ever played these games with your friends and heard them try to give advice while yelling? 9/10 times you discount that shit.

>>377342039
No, the problem is them coaching between sets, eg the phone call eg hungrybox's sports psychologist friend.

File: 1469664327124.jpg (36KB, 500x356px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 500x356px

>>377335223

All this boils down to is midmatch, no
Between sets? Sure

I'd like to hear some genuine points against this

>>377341706
>Are you stupid? You can move in fighting games.
You don't understand the basic English that someone uses and then ask if THEY are stupid. Get a grip, soldier.

Can a perfect Ken or a perfect Ryu beat a perfect Blanka in SF2:WW?
Can a perfect Blanka beat a perfect Chun Li in SF2:WW?

The answer to both is "No" so those are solved. Ryu/Ken can only punish Blanka's mistakes and Blanka can only punish Chun Li's mistakes.

In fact, since fighting games don't "take turns", they are easier to solve. Ryu vs. Ryu is automatically solved as a draw on premise alone.

>>377342048


Chess is a turn based game. Fighting games, Mobas, etc. are not.

before and after the match you can talk to whomever

but during the match is retarded, and only smashfags would be so autistic to have something like that be an actual controversy.

>>377342204
>No, the problem is them coaching between sets
I don't give a fuck about that. I want to be sure we don't have esports turn into some pissing contest over 'who can subtly piss the other guy off more'
>put an ice cube down the other guys shirt
>I WAS JUST TRYING TO COACH MY BOY WHA HAPPA

File: 1345126101682.gif (375KB, 400x300px) Image search: [Google]

375KB, 400x300px

>>377335223
>E "Sports"
>Doesn't like coaching

>>377342056
Well, someone seems angry

>>377342313
>Ryu vs. Ryu is automatically solved as a draw on premise alone.


Thanks for demonstrating to everybody ITT who actually understands what solving something means that you don't know what you are talking about.

Please tell me, how is Ryu vs Ryu solved in SF3rd Strike?

Them doing the same thing and being able to move at the same time does not tell you anything except that "if they both do the exact same thing for the entire time, the match should end in a draw."

That is NOT THE SOLUTION. You fucking retard. God you are fucking stupid.

>>377342048
Chess requires no physical ability, videogames do. Because it's essentially impossible to "mess up" a move in chess (ie you try to make a legal move and your piece ends up somewhere else because you mistimed) the only thing that matters in chess is strategy, so it makes sense to ban strategic advice. The same isn't true for vidya.

File: 1327925134869.jpg (24KB, 614x534px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 614x534px

>>377335223
I must be getting retarded I read this whole posts as "couching" and was like wtf are these guys crying about now

>>377342313
That is still not what solved means.

>>377342438
No one is arguing about that because that's a non-issue because it's obviously so retarded they'd get immediately booted and the match would be restarted or forfeited.

For all the "issue" that raises you could just pay a crowd member a grand to rush on the stage and piss on your opponent.

>>377342452


e-sports so desperately wants to be like real sports but will ban coaching. reee ban the first base coach reee. fucking faggots.

Which of these are more likely to piss you off?

People actually shit at the game
Cheaters/Hackers
Camping
Coaching
People who say gg
People who call you a faggot
Backseat admins/mods
Server admin whose girlfriend is playing
Little kid using a mic all throughout the match
LEROYYYYYYYYYY JENKINNNNNNNNNNNNNS

I've never really paid much attention to the FGC, but how is this considered a controversy and why only now? How come no one was upset about coaching before Smash was forced into the FGC? This just sounds like a vocal minority of autists throwing a tantrum to me.

I can understand things like >>377335561 being an issue, but that can't even be considered coaching. More like trying to interfere with a match and intentionally distracting players.

>>377343112
>Backseat admins/mods
This

>>377341717
>Name one sport that allows coaches on the field during play barring injury.

Baseball

File: 1368374018130.jpg (34KB, 499x496px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 499x496px

>pretty good at arm wrestling
>decide to try my hand (hehe, puns) at a local contest
>make it to the semi-finals
>walk up to the table
>there's two dudes on the other end
>"uh?"
>"he's my coach. don't mind him."
>we lock grips
>ref starts match
>it's pretty close
>suddenly feel a feather behind my knee
>his coach is tickling me
>end up losing
>"how the fuck is that allowed?"
>"really, you're gonna complain about coaching? have you never competed in anything ever? hey, ever watch football? see those dudes in the jackets with the headsets?"
>"i don't think that's the same"
>"don't like the rules? don't play the game"
>ref shrugs and tells me he's got a point
Literally this thread

>>377335223
Expected a wave of autists comparing a children's game to real sports and I was not disappointed

There should be no third party involvement in any way or shape once the match starts.

>>377335223
>game coaching is a thing
wat?

>>377335223
Kid sounds mad cause he has no one to coach him.

If you want esports to be considered a "Real sport" then you got to allow coach. Boxing has coaches, MMA has coaches, Baseball, Basketball and Futbol has coaches, so why can't video games?

>>377343376
>messing with your opponent is the same as coaching

You should ban having both opponents on stage because one might start tickling the other.

>>377343342
They are not allowed to step past the foul line, which is where the "field" ends.

So again, name me one, because that shit don't play in triple A

>>377343418
I'd like to see you last two minutes against any top 8 melee player, dude

File: IMG_2908.png (1MB, 1000x1809px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1000x1809px

>>377335223
Coaching is only truly fair in the ideal world where everyone has one. No one complains about coaching in boxing because both boxers have one and they both know before the fight that this is just part of the match. Coaching in video games only benefits the players that are already at the top and have connections with the other top players. For the up and coming player that's fighting for his first breakout result in tournament it's unfair. For the spectators it's just an annoying waste of time. Attempts at regulation seem to always just be time limits or having a single designated coach. I think it should be that you're not allowed to use your coach if the opponent doesn't also have one. It could be a 1v1 or a 2v2 but for the sake of competition it should never ever have to feel like a 2v1. Doesn't matter if it's smash, street fighter, guilty gear, tekken, whatever. As soon as it becomes something one person has but the other doesn't, it's not fair.

side note Armada is a fucking cry baby waaah muh perfectly broken controller

File: 1334049925964.gif (534KB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

534KB, 640x360px

>>377343662
To make it fair, if one person has a coach and the other doesn't, the coach should help bother players do their best

>>377343616
>>377343616
How is that different from a coach standing on stage? As long as the coach doesn't physically interfere then how is it different?

>>377343662
There is no rule saying boxers must have coaches. Coaches go after kids they see potential in because they see money in their future. Vice versa if the kid has no talent.

Boxers come from the street, often. FG players come from a house with a video game console.

>>377343864
That's cute but he's definitely gonna have a bias unless they're both his friends

>>377335223
who cares? all "esports" should be banned

post-match or prematch coaching only

none of this coaching between rounds shit

File: 1474262535140.jpg (29KB, 529x446px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 529x446px

>>377343662
People shouldn't be allowed to use arcade sticks either since not everyone has one.

>>377343885
Because...that's...how sports work? I mean this is just so inherently intuitive I don't even know why you're arguing against it.

Would you have fans on the field? Little jimmy walking in between base 2 and 3 because he's "not interfering"? Bitch he might interfere accidentally, so you say back the fuck off past this special line. Stops people from getting injured, stops people from cheating, etc.

This is a non-argument, and this isn't what any real player is arguing for.

>>377339189
But if you say that for video games, I could argue the same way for boxing in which the boxer can simply watch videos of their past matches and analyze them. People can fight unpredictably, but people always have specific mannerisms that they fall back on. People have certain ways of fighting, just like they do playing.

>From Kotaku
Stopped reading right there.

>>377344254
You don't allow people on the field so they don't physically interfere. There is no field of play in vidya, so as long as the coach isn't pressing buttons for someone I don't see the problem.

They do this in league, boxing and literally every sport.
It's normal.

>>377343662
>perfectly broken controller

What? They play on broken controllers?

>>377342438
are you fucking retarded

Coaching is fine between matches, of course it's smashbabbies who have a problem with it

What pisses off thr fgc the most?
Do that?
I don't mind esportd in general but competitive fighting or sports games are pathetic. Especially when you see how autistic the 90% tranny FGC is.

>>377344491
Because you cannot trust people, so you set up limits for where they can and cannot be. Same is true for chess same is true for bowling (can't run up beside them), same is true for darts, etc.

Again there is no sport where this is not a thing, so why should it be different for fighting games? You can't go up and rub your sack all over Bobby Fischer claiming you're not touching his pieces or preventing him from playing them

File: I really hope you guys don't do this in THE SERIOUS MOONLIGHT.jpg (1MB, 1071x1435px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1071x1435px

>>377335223
All this thread's affirmed to me is that the FGC are still cancerous, autistic idiots that take themselves and what they do way, way too seriously.

Cheers, m80s.

>>377345306
I thought it was the Smash community making a big deal about this, not the FGC.

>>377344150
One is a controller preference the other is a third party actually helping you win. Don't act retarded. You're not actually retarded, right?

>>377345429
Article refers to both, and they're generally both about the same. The only difference is occasionally the FGC tries to say Smash isn't a fighting game/part of it, while Smash tries so hard to rip everything out of itself that makes it itself just to be like them.

>>377344530
Yeah some controllers have a defect that makes you play Melee better. It's a 1 in 50 chance. I'm not lying.

>e-sports picking up steam
>adopts tactics that professional sports use
>"WAH IT'S UNFAIR!"

Seriously these faggots are just doing it because they get their asses kicked and can't grow the fuck up enough to try and improve. Saw it constantly in 5 years of boxing. Those without a coach or sideliner were always throwing fits about those that did. And they were never considered the good boxers. These idiots like playing the lone wolf tough guy shit but lack the intellectual capability to realize that a set of outside eyes can spot things you can't, whether it's information about something your opponent is doing or that you're doing and can as such offer a vision as to improve yourself.

FGC is the gayest shit ever.

It's retarded, videogames are a hell of a lot closer to something like chess than fucking boxing and chess players don't have a group of friends whispering moves into their ears. How would you feel if you were beating someone with a strategy they clearly don't know how to deal with only to have someone whisper advice they googled to them and have you lose because you mistakenly expected a fair fight? If you have a coach and they don't it's no longer a 1v1, you cannot refute it. If you try to compare street fighter to boxing just because the video game characters are fighting you are fucking braindead.

>>377345024
There is a massive difference between what you are talking about and saying they can be nowhere onstage at all.

And there are plenty of sports where the coach and player can be within reach of each other, so by your logic shouldn't the make say a basketball coach stand in the parking lot to make sure a player doesn't get to close? And shouldn't they make caddies throw the clubs to the golfer and only communicate via skype to ensure no direct interference?

>>377345429
What's the difference? It's all still spergy autistic shit for losers.

And ban checking your phone too

File: 1493027096977.jpg (307KB, 1200x1200px) Image search: [Google]

307KB, 1200x1200px

>>377346056
>I don't know how to actually argue so i'll just exaggerate real-life examples to a ridiculous degree

Sounds like an excuse to babies to bitch about because they suck.

>>377346056
> a strategy they clearly don't know how to deal with

Nigga what fighting game has strategies where the counter isn't just "predict what they're going to do" or "execute better". These aren't complex systems, any effective string of moves is already known about coach or no coach.

>>377345940
If you completely rely on a cheap move and hope the enemy doesn't know how to counter it, you deserve to lose.
No amount of coaching is going to outweigh skill and practice.

>>377346710
Meant for
>>377345940

>>377335223
>they want to be sports but not sportslike
there's a saying i'm not remembering right now

>>377346710
what if you keep pwning someone with low kicks
and he doesn't know how to use low block
and someone tells him
WHAT THEN

File: okhand.png (109KB, 550x550px) Image search: [Google]

109KB, 550x550px

>coaching on smash

>>377346516
That's literally what you are doing. You just claimed that if coaches were allowed near the players they would rub their sack on the players and prevent them from playing.

My point is that I don't see the problem with allowing coaches onstage given that they are banned from physically interfering with the game.

>>377335223
In boxing and mma. In between rounds they can go back take a break and their coach can tell them what they need to do. He'll during the middle of a fight they scream at them.

>>377346904
>anon, you need to pick fox and abuse the glitches even harder

>>377346710
>>377346743
If it's so simple then why is it important that you have a coach next to you telling you what to do?

>>377347092
>PROTIP: Hit the other guy until he falls down.

>playing FGC tournament
>somebody gives advice to me from offstage
>get disqualified since I got coached

>all matches must now be performed inside opaque sound-insulated bubbles so as to minimize any possibly helpful interference from the outside world

>>377347437
Yeah cause a professional fight is that simple

>>377347453
>all matches must now be performed inside opaque sound-insulated bubbles
This literally happens in Starcraft tournaments.
Of course, it's a much bigger advantage there if someone yells "mutalisk rush".

>boxers can't get advice from their coaches between rounds

This is how retarded you sound """"fighting"""" games community

>>377345559
The point is both arguments are equally retarded. It's completely absurd to claim that talking to someone during the natural intermissions of a set is something that must be stopped because it's "helping you win". Literally any auditory input, like screams or cheers from across the room could then be considered "helping you win" because they can be giving advice. Better get soundproofed booths for both players to sit inside while playing, like they have for Starcraft. Oh wait, Starcraft players are still talking to their coaches all the fucking time in between matches.

>>377343376

I'm pretty neutral on the topic of coaching in games but holy fuck is that a terrible analogy.

>>377335223
Coaching isn't an issue. Allowing beta testers and devs to enter tournaments is a bigger issue

>>377347664
strategy games are different from fighting games. In strategy games, a coach can give you knowledge of your opinion that you would have had no way of knowing otherwise. In fighting games, all of the information you could be coached on is right there on your screen. Both players use the same screen, even.

>>377338257
"Stop yelling shit and being a distraction or you'll be asked to leave."

>>377347453
>taking math test
>friend gives me the answer
>teacher fails me

WTF I GUESS I HAVE TO TAKE TESTS IN AN INSULATED BUBBLE

>>377335223
Coaching is the norm and isn't going anywhere. It's like demanding races remove pitstops

>>377347770
>smash
>FGC

they coach daily in FGC games lmao

>>377335223
>kotaku

Fuck you.

>>377347901
Of course, I was just saying that sound proofed cages aren't that crazy of an idea.

>>377347770
>rich athletes punching each other in the face is the same as nerds inputting commands into a controlled simulation

>>377347906
So you ban the crowd from cheering?

>>377347910
muh analogies
>enter competition
>strategize to win
>banned for strategizing because it's unfair

>>377347901
>all of the information you could be coached on is right there on your screen

Then why should coaches exist? The only possible reason is for an incompetent player to get an advantage.

Only rules for coaching need to be

>Strict enforcement of delay of game
>If one player doesn't have a coach the other can't be coached during the match

>>377338257
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yPCeCj2m80

This "controversy" is completely laughable. Players coaching other players has been a thing since forever and it happens in almost all games and real sports. How dumb do you have to be to think this should be implemented. How would it even be enforced? Mandatory earmuffs for all players?

>>377341281
You should be wearing a headset to block out noise like every competitor does. If you are distracted by something like talking, you are not long for fighters

How the fuck you gonna handle the commentators over the lodspeakers?

Boxers chat with their coaches between rounds. If you're going to treat fightan and Smash as professional sports then why shouldn't coaching be allowed?

>>377343376
We're talking about coaching, not outside interference, which also, is not allowed in any esport. Physically touching someone or preventing them during play is not allowed in any game tournament.

Korean Starcraft teams have had coaches for over a decade without issue. The only issue I see is what >>377335561 said and I think that, life with Starcraft, the player shouldn't be in any kind of contact with outside parties.

File: 1433848441048.jpg (32KB, 676x483px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 676x483px

>>377335223
>From Kotaku

>>377342661
That is literally what solved means.

It means that the outcome can be predetermined when all players play perfectly.

Do you know what "solved" means? You obviously don't. What you're thinking of is simply one of the steps in solving.

>215 posts and nobody has given a single (1) real reason for coaching other than "sports do it"

>>377348117
If they're incompetent and need a coach to win then they'll lose. No need to get butthurt about it

>n-no, you see coaching allows bad players to win tournaments

sounds like a sore loser's excuse

>>377335223
That's bullshit. Cornermen have been a thing in boxing forever and no one calls bullshit on them.

>>377348029
It's a moot point because if that was the case the guy wouldn't be able to hear him anyway.

File: IMG_5263.png (4MB, 2208x1242px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 2208x1242px

>>377348286
>If you're going to treat fightan and Smash as professional sports
Why do people actually want this? I miss thuggery. I miss when it was about fun and hype. I miss when commentators were allowed to say fuck on stream. Now it's not about fun. It's about competition and """""hype"""""

>>377348537
>one post and anon has clearly given everyone a reason to suspect he's fucking retarded
Why would coaching be banned, you shitfucker? Why would one faggot whine that his opponent had a coach and he didn't? Because it elevates the competitors and therefore elevates the competition.

Next time, adopt a tripcode so we can all know you as the stupid motherfucker that couldn't count to 3 because he's convinced that "2 just gets in the way".

>>377348729
That's the tradeoff. You want mainstream money and sponsors, you got to play by their rules.

>>377348812
Letting publishers get involved in tournaments was a mistake

>>377348703
The players can't hear the crowd?

>>377335223
I don't know, it makes it seem like boxing or some other real fighting sport.

>>377348776
Give me one (1) reason it's necessary you triggered autist. If you can't muster up a single one then maybe you should rethink your position.

COACH I'M DYING

>>377349085
Not him, but who's arguing it's necessary? The original statement is whether or not it should be banned.

>>377349085
Gloves should be banned. They keep your hands warm and it could unfairly increase joint efficiency.

>>377349186
The OP didn't ask whether it should be banned, he asked where we stand on the controversy.

>>377349279
Not an argument, try again.

>>377341367
Are you actually retarded, have you ever played a fighting game before. BOTS in fighting games need to cheat to win, they need to be able to read your input which is an unfair advantage.

Its like turning on block all and guard block in training mode and say oh computer is unbeatable I can't get a hit in.

Also most AI in fighting games are exploitable even if they are blocking everything, or countering most stuff. They can be tricked into bad maneuvers or unblockable setups .

Watch mike ross beat tool assisted.

>>377337395
I agree with you

File: 1494028332034.jpg (132KB, 1199x1156px) Image search: [Google]

132KB, 1199x1156px

remember that spongebob episode where spongebob is doing his driving test and patrick is secretly telling him all the answers while he's doing it? that's coaching

>>377335223
I thought these were "sports."

Coaching is allowed in real sports.

>>377349615
That's literally what they do in pro racing...

>>377335561
????? Then why wouldn't you grab instead of following through predictably? There is no excuse for losing other then being an inferior player imo

File: 1375208261495.jpg (400KB, 1181x1765px) Image search: [Google]

400KB, 1181x1765px

>/v/
>knowing anything at all about fighting games

>>377349351
Either way I don't see where anyone claimed it was necessary to have a coach.

>>377349802
You don't really need to know anything, this is a question of metagaming that can apply to almost any video game. While knowing about fighting games might help with context somewhat, I think this argument can appear in any sort of game, though to a more limited extent.

>>377349802
there's more people on /v/ complaining about /v/ being bad at fighting games then there are people who are bad at fighting games

Coaching is fine but mid-game should be limited to encouraging arm rubs and head pats.

>>377335223
Oh yeah coaching is a cancer, fighting games were always supposed to be 1v1, and it is always easier for a third party to see what you're doing wrong during matches.

It is an unfair advantage and should be banned even from pools.

>>377349921
>You don't really need to know anything
"no"

>>377348052
You can develop your strategy by yourself, or at least consult your friends about the match-up BEFORE the match, not have him sit at your side and point out every mistake you make in between rounds, this is an unfair advantage over your opponent if he is alone.

How about just letting the players decide. Coaches are only permitted for a match when both players consent. If either says no, then neither of them can talk to their coach.

If one player doesn't have a coach then they won't be at a disadvantage as they can just decline. If both players are cool with it, then let them have them. The decision isn't impacting any other players directly so it should only be up to them.

>>377350083
Information is useless if you cant execute it. No reason to ban ADVISE during a tournament.

Coaching is permissible in real sports because real sports have a full execution component. Execution in fighting games, on the other hand, is fundamentally limited and in many cases the game is decided based on mindgames and guessing games, leaving a significantly larger metagaming influence.

It's not unfair because both players can have coaches, but it is gay. A limited medium like fighting games shouldn't be giving players every possible tool to do better in the medium.

>>377340174
Come on man

>>377350392
What's stopping your opponent from getting a coach? That's like a guy tying a hand behind his back and them claiming it's unfair his opponents use both hands.

>>377350502
And if he can execute on it then it is unfair, so it should be banned. Why the mental gymastics just because you afraid of a fair fight?

>>377343376
What a retarded analogy.

>>377350701
Is it fair if both players can use controllers with turbo and macros? If so then why not allow them at tournaments?

>>377350701
What about international players or even players from the same country that traveled alone or without anyone with game knowledge to the tournament, what are those people supposed to do?

>>377350701
Most people don't have access to a professional fighting game player willing to help them anon, it's not at all like someone tying their hand behind their back and you know it. You're purposefully being disengenious

>>377335223
So coaching is only a problem to people that have no friends and can't rely on anyone?

>>377350715
>Winning a match because the other player doesnt know how to counter that set up/Mix up etc
>Fair match

Okay

File: not amused.jpg (22KB, 640x323px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 640x323px

"Professional" gaming is the worst that could have happen to this community its as bad as giving prizes to comedians.

>>377335561
>all the shitters replying to this post

>>377350918
hate to break it to you but that's called being the worse player

>>377335223
>especially when many players don’t have access to the same resources.
Except they do.

I've seen coaches come up to help someone after a match and then someone else coaching the other player as well

>>377350715
If one player is faster with inputs it's unfair, so they should ban being better than your opponent.

>>377351163
Okay. Call it what you want but its still an unfair match.

>>377351171
>I saw it happen once so everyone has access to coaches
>>377351204
anon what the fuck point are you even attempting to make

Coaching has never been about fairness. Everything is "fair" so long as it's equal access. If there is a discussion, it's about whether coaching is good for the competitive environment.

>>377351204
>no items no metaknight final destination no reactions faster than 150ms allowed

Coaching allows for a player to utilize the thinking of an outside element who's not in the game themselves. If you're not a part of the fight, you shouldn't be allowed to participate in any way. The mindset, mental failings due to acting under stress, and your ability to intimidate your opponent via mind games or showmanship are all parts of the game, and you mitigate this by allowing the cool head of an observer to step in and interfere.
I don't see how people don't realize how much of an interference this is. In games, it should be you and your opponent stuck alone with each other, that's it, you're on your own.

>>377351334
>Once
Try all the time. Especially when the players are part of a team.

File: [HorribleSubs] Gundam Build Fighters - 24 [720p].mkv_snapshot_18.22_[2017.03.31_21.40.44].png (2MB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1280x720px

>niggas think coaching is unfair

Say that to my gunpla and not online and see what happens, Zeek scum.

>>377351348
Anyone can hire a group of ruffians to beat up your opponent before the match.

>>377350878
Bring a coach or just deal with it.

>>377350894
>most professional fighting game players don't have access to other professional fighting game players
That's a ridiculous assertion. Beyond that, let's say I can't afford a stick so I use a junky old controller. Should all of my opponents be forced to use a junky old controller?

>Nintendo babbies actually need 'coaching'

Kek what a joke. Never a true fighting game

File: 1493356001362.jpg (22KB, 718x512px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 718x512px

>>377348537
almost at 300 posts, still nobody

It's like having a 15 minute break in the middle of an exam where you can talk to your friend and see what he got. You shoulda learned how to handle that shit before it all started

>>377351625
This.

>>377335223
HIGH STAKES WINNER TAKES ALL VIDEO GAMING EPIC PRO
Who gives a fuck?Autists is the answer

>>377351334
The point is that it's stupid to say that one person knowing more than the other is unfair, just like it's stupid to say that one person having more skill is unfair.

>>377351625
You're just mad that your babby game doesn't have a real competitive scene with media coverage, sponsors and coaches like the melee big boys do.

>>377350474
You'd have to separate the competition into different brackets for those who use coaches and those who don't, because the game is being changed significantly when you introduce a coaching element.

>>377351549
That's my point. Anyone can, but they don't because it defeats the purpose of the competition.

I think the general sentiment for those against coaching is similar, as it's introducing an outside element into what is perceived as a contest specifically between two players.

>>377348953
Sometimes they sit in a sound cancelled glass box and wear earbuds + headphones; so no.

>>377351806
It literally changes nothing.
It's still down to reactions and skills.

>>377351527
Man why did people in this series even bother to go solo when there were far more advantages to having a copilot. The two Argentinian brothers almost took down the champ. Then again most characters were quite proud of the suits they build so I doubt they'd trust other people with it.

Do the japanese players use coaches or is this just a westerner thing?

>>377351759
You don't know more if you need someone standing next to telling you when the other person doesn't.

Aw, lookit the Smash community, still pretending they're a real fighting game. It's so adorable!

>>377351650
Because most people arguing here aren't talking about whether or not you should use a coach, but whether or not coaches should be banned.

If you want an argument for coaching, it raises the overall level of competition, making the game more entertaining.

>>377351945
Japanese players have a group of fangirls following them and have their shoulders and fingers massaged between rounds.

>go to /fgg/
>ctrl+f coach
>0 results

You now realize there is no controversy and that Kotaku suckered everyone in this thread into arguing about something that nobody in the FGC cares about.

File: tJo3oGor.jpg (116KB, 1456x819px) Image search: [Google]

116KB, 1456x819px

>>377351773
>injustice 2 1st price :600.000 dollars
>smash4 1st price: trip to hawaii and a nintendo switch shirt

>>377351846
>sometimes

>>377351889
Mind games and keeping a level head are both skills. Both of these skills are supplemented by the introduction of a coach. If your skills are being assisted by an outside element, it's no longer coming down to EXCLUSIVELY the skill of the two pitted players, though it should

>>377349921
There was someone earlier making the case that a coach can tell you which of your moves is most + so it's unfair

I don't like coaches after the set begins. I also think retards with phones are going to start making having a timer between rounds a thing or they should be forced to print/handwrite their notes so they're not getting or receiving texts during matches. If I was a TO I'd either require phones be off or on a table in front of them during matches.

>>377345743
smash isn't fgc

>>377351945
asian players are autistic robots, they dont need coaching.

>>377352139
THIS

File: 731.jpg (43KB, 486x409px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 486x409px

>>377352139

>>377349085
I gave you a reason, you illiterate fuckwit. Try READING, you stupid shit-for-brains.

And nobody said it was "necessary", rather advantageous.

>>377351965
What if they told you the info the day before? You still wouldn't have known without that person, and if that person didn't tell your opponent as well it's not fair to him.

>>377352062
>No one has gave a reason except the only reason
>I dont accept that reason

>>377352139
>Injustice 2 Prize
Automatically goes to Sonic Fox anyway

>>377335223
>Smash
I guess no one gives a fuck.
It's a game for children.

>>377339623
For any given setup (character select to end of match)
yes it is solvable; pathetically so.

The only people whining about coaches are low ranked scrubs who can't even get a decent sponsor pay 10k/match for a professional coach.
In other words, people who will never make it into the top10 and don't matter.

File: 257.jpg (20KB, 480x478px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 480x478px

>>377352139
> nintendo switch shirt
fucking killed me

coaching should only be allowed before and after sets, never during.
the contest should be between two players not one player vs one player and all of his buddies

File: 1447038847477.png (197KB, 433x436px) Image search: [Google]

197KB, 433x436px

>>377352139
HEY FUCK YOUU

>>377335223
>From Kotaku
Ain't reading shit

File: real fighting games.jpg (136KB, 971x524px) Image search: [Google]

136KB, 971x524px

>>377352018

???

>>377352409
What are you trying to say?

>>377352062
How does it getting info from your coach during the match rather than before or after raise the level of competiton (which is extremely vague)? It should be banned because it's blatantly unncessary and unfair to those who don't have a coach. It should tell you something if everyone in this thread can't come up with a single decent reason why coaching should exist.

File: 1396338641312.gif (1MB, 350x197px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 350x197px

>>377351935
Even if the builder wasn't in the hot seat with the pilot, they could just spend their time building replacement parts or things to counter upcoming opponents, while the pilot handles the front lines.

No matter how you looked at it, not having a builder was just inefficient.

Hell, there was even the whole internal monologue with Fellini about how if he goes all out against Sei and Reiji, he probably won't have enough time before the finals to repair the Fettuccine Alfredo.

>>377335223
NONE
OF
THESE
SMASH 4
FAGGOTS
CAN
BEAT
ZERO

Fucking Dota 2 even adopted the idea of coaches
Turns out the captain still does most of the calls because he is in the actual game while the coach reminds players on their positioning
It started in TI4 and met criticism because the big teams only used it
Nowadays everyone can have a coach and nobody bat's an eye
The only team to not use coaches are veterans and literal whos
The game even has a feature for coaching pub games

>>377352553
They have to have something for the kids to watch while the parents are watching Tekken?

File: hm.jpg (43KB, 670x472px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 670x472px

>professional video games

I can't wait til we get referees who throw a red card on a game victory because something was unfair.

>>377352598
You can't come up with a reason for it to be banned besides "b-but it's not fair to me!"

File: 1483920203236.png (727KB, 778x906px) Image search: [Google]

727KB, 778x906px

>shitters on /v/ are afraid to have a fair match without their buttbuddies backing them up
wow, color me surpised

>>377352470
There are no professional coaches because the only coach worth having at your side is another high level player.

What is even the problem here? The only time coaching makes a significant difference is when the winner is using some frametrap or mix-up that is unknown to the other player. Otherwise all your coach can tell you is to look for a specific pattern in the opponent's playstyle, in which case it's still up to the player to make the adaptation. Either way it shouldn't matter; it raises the level of play for both players which is what everyone should want in the first place.

File: MikeTysonProfile.gif (12KB, 293x250px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 293x250px

>>377352672
>casual gamer

>>377352825
>it only makes a significant difference when it does
>one person having a coach raises the play for both players

File: 1461000365337.png (16KB, 632x734px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 632x734px

>>377352913
>I play video games seriously

>>377352825
fighting games in particular are about understanding and adapting to your opponent and quickly creating a counter strategy specifically tailored for them.
that is a skill that is measured when two people fight against each other. the minute that mid set coaching is allowed it is no longer a contest between the two players' skill

>>377352672
Only Valve e-sports (Dota 2 and CSGO) that is relevant since the dosh you can make from it is absurd and they actually know how to manage events

yoo.
i see you guys have no idea why coaches are important and how it even works. i don't blame you, i guess 99.999999% of the people here never even set foot in a melee tournament, but if you are so ignorant maybe you should be quiet ;)
anyw8
melee tourneys are some of the most stressful things in the world and even pr0s like me can get stressed or distracted at times. the point of having coaches is to help the players focus and give their 110%. games would be inconsistent and boring without coaches, if a player is having a bad day he could lose to a less skilled opponent which would be bad for various reasons, sports betting for one. you don't want to disappoint the bookmakers with shitty performance, you could get accused of match fixing, but i guess you guys didnt think of this since you were never pro gamers lol
so we have coaches to make sure every player is focused and doing their 110%, which makes it more fun for everyone. now you know.

anyway world top 20 melee player here, ask me anything but dont waste my precious time with retarded questions

File: file.png (237KB, 416x300px) Image search: [Google]

237KB, 416x300px

The most well know part of boxing, other than the giant gloves IS the oldman screaming to the guy after each round

Coaching is perfectly fine.

>>377352431
Who?

File: 455.jpg (59KB, 600x814px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 600x814px

>>377353020
>i play videogames for fun

File: 1301845048056.png (26KB, 205x264px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 205x264px

>>377335223
One coach per player.
30 seconds after a match, or 60 seconds after a set with no in-between match coaching.
Coach must LEAVE the stage after.
Shouting from the sidelines invokes a round loss of your player.

This shouldn't be a hard thing to enforce.

>>377353158
did your caretaker change your diaper today or did you do it yourself like a big boy?

>>377353158
how many fidget spinners do you own?

>>377353297
>shouting from the sidelines is a DQ for the player
>this shouldn't be a hard thing to enforce

have you

EVER

been to a major

Be honest /v/. Have you ever been to a local tournament and faced against a player with a coach?

>>377352139
>trip to hawaii
with everything paid?

>>377353163
Boxing is much more complicated than video games, as no two boxers punch exactly the same. There's much more variety in the types of issues boxers run into during a fight, and as such it makes sense a boxing coach can weigh in using their experience to help their kid cope with the problems they're facing.
Video games have much fewer variables. Because of this, coaches in video games can diagnose the problems their players face and have them work around them to much greater effect, meaning a coached video game player will utilize the advice to greater effect and imposing on the amount of skill required to beat their opponent. This is all given the coach knows what he's doing and saying, but still, sports coaching and video games coaching have vastly different results.

>>377353774
>Boxing is much more complicated than video games,

>punch people until they almost die
>dont get punched, if you do try not to die

>>377353559
I've coached at a local

>>377353163
>coaching in a sport where you're getting hit in the face and struggling to stay conscious is the same as coaching in a video game

>>377353559
I've been to many locals and majors. A crowd is one thing. A fucking faggot standing right next to your opponent going, "JUST DO X, IT MAKES IT SO HE CAN'T DO Y ANYMORE." is fucking annoying and distracting.

>>377335223
Well fighting sports in real life also have coaches

>>377353559
Honestly, usually the most helpful part of having a coach is having someone to tell you to calm down and go back to character select. I can't remember having lost at a major to someone who had a coach besides Justin

File: IMG_0249.jpg (47KB, 600x531px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 600x531px

>>377338115

File: 1479636567699.jpg (238KB, 664x457px) Image search: [Google]

238KB, 664x457px

>tfw I've never been retarded enough to get into E-sports

But I am retarded enough to drop thousands on minis and paints.

>>377353901
This is bait but god damn am I biting. If you understood the technicalities of combat sports and their respective skill sets, or even had common sense, you'd understand that utilizing your body in the real fucking world can end in many more different ways than characters in a game with preset actions assigned to button inputs. Anything is possible in actual sports within human capability and the rules. This isn't true when you use a controller.

Boxers get coached between rounds and have shit yelled at them mid fight. It's not a weird practice. Just have it to where coaches aren't right in the players ear. Have a specific distance they must stay back during the match, while allowing them to personally coach up players between matches.

>"competitive gamers" still think they should be taken seriously

>>377335223
30 second 1 time per set if only because I'm fucking sick of people just dragging my games out so they talk to their buddy. It's like button checkers who practice combos for 2-3 minutes

I think the time between sets is like a round of boxing, and in boxing you have the coaches helping them out. I think it's alright as long as it's not mid match.

Smash babies don't understand that this reminiscent of the arcade days, where people would gather around you and give advice.

File: Anand-Carlsen.jpg (44KB, 540x307px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 540x307px

>>377344491
Yes, this is why every board game championship looks like a fucking renaissance fair. Just fucking delimitate space you fucking dolt, kids playing hockey in the streets can do it, I don't understand how championships with thousand dollar prizes can't.

>>377354296
I really wanna take a step in the autism ladder and start playing miniature games but I suck at painting. How should I proceed?