Will isometric CRPGs ever be relevant again?

>>377323957
Wasn't Underrail fairly popular a while back?

The last thing in my mind while playing pillars of eternity was wondering why the genre died quite the opposite

I love isometric CRPGs, as of late the Shadowrun games are a lot of fun. I don't think they'll be relevant again because they're not fast paced and it takes a lot of imaginative investment from the player that most people these days aren't willing to put up with.

>>377323957
Tyranny didn't sell because I didn't know it was even released, what the fuck

when did it come out

>>377324291
Tyranny didnt sell well because it was garbage.

>>377324082
I bought Underrail
Need to beat it still.

>>377323957
If Tyranny was a good game, then it would be selling well, but it isn't.

Divinity OS also had 0 marketing but sold like hotcakes.

>they were like,
>this form of gameplay isn't really working in today's environment

what a shit article

>>377323957
nah, they're tedious and WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS

>>377323957
they never were

They were only popular because back in the day you didn't have much games to play with so you invested yourself in the story.

No one is going to read all that shit today.

>>377323957
We have better ways to create engaging and immersive worlds, namely 3d. The reason they were so popular when they were is that they were the best way to experience the world, and interact with it. Compared to what we can do today, old rpgs seem primitive and essentially play like a picture book.

>>377323957
This is crap. I made my friend play Fallout 2 for the first time, this year, and now it's his favourite game.
These people think that attention span is something found only in holism.

The people that want to play isometric CRPGs today are mostly the same people that played them back in the day.

These types of games require a commitment that most people aren't willing to go for. It's the same with the grand strategy genre, which is still chugging along perfectly fine.

Have small teams working on small-ish budgets make a good game and you'll make money.

>>377324494
>Ummm, this form of gameplay is problematic. Can we get some wymyn of color in here to reprogram it please?

>>377323957
oh boy I'm reinstalling Fallout 2 again.

>>377324364
this

>>377323957
Tyranny didn't sell because the game and the ending in particular is a rushed shitshow and they got well-deserved bad rep because of it

>>377324694
>tfw I have to force myself to read the flavortext littered around Prey because I've become a huge fucking casual these days

I've lost my way

>>377323957
>This form of gameplay isn't really working in today's environment.

I think what this guy meant to write is that grey haired crpg devs still don't have any idea how to balance turn based/baldur's gate gameplay and as such, they're repeating all of the same mistakes that made their old game medicore.

The problem with all these "Old school dev makes game x" kickstaters is that none of them have evolved at all and they just make the same game with zero regard for contemporary gameplay advances.

>>377324694
I guess it's a good thing that it's a niche genre and that retarded subhumans can just keep playing cowadoody

>>377323957
Where is this from? I want to tell Jorjani to off himself, whoever that is.

>>377324695

Then explain to me why 3D games typically suck dick at making engaging cities and towns full of NPCs and quests. Where are the 3D games immersing me in the world through fantastic world building, while also having incredibly deep character customization, party customization, and the ability to make my own choices.

These are the types of things that are engaging and immersive, not some perspective shift that makes games look like absolute shit unless you have 50x the budget of an isometric CRPG.

>>377324694
PoE is probably the worst offender for boring wall-o-text bullshit I've ever seen. That game is just absolutely jammed to the hilt with shitty, irrelevant stories that aren't worth your time to read, but have to be clicked on anyway, in case you miss a quest.

>>377323957
Yes, PoE2 is coming out, same for DivOS2, Underrail is getting an expansion, Expedition Conquistador sequel outsold first game.

Tyranny was just complete shit. It deserved its poor sales.

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>>377324898
>contemporary gameplay advances.

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They're going to annouce fallout 5 at E3 and it will be classic isometric.

>>377323957
Thankfully no

>>377324898

Every modern CRPG that is made uses a different ruleset and tries to advance the genre, and most of them are fucking retarded ideas, because the old games were fun and just need some minor tweaks and updates.

>crpgs depend heavily on writing and story
>crpg makers are meme plebbitors who clearly have 0 social skills

cant even get past the first hour of tyranny(not including the scenario choices).

like seriously, would you expect any human being at any point in time have THAT kind of dialogue?

the 2 generals make trump sound like fucking the fucking queen of england in comparison.

Everything I've read about Tyranny makes it sound like Wasted Potential: The Game

>>377325134
>unironically clicking the golden name plate backer NPCs and then complaining about walls of text on every npc
please kill yourself you retard.

>>377323957
Only if the game has a strong narrative that basically follows you every step of the way with a villain/purpose that forces you to deal with at least every other hour. Exploration focused CRPGs are what killed the genre especially after 10+ games all banking on your desire to explore the same world you've seen in every single game. Unique, hand-designed content is king and characters, story, writing, world reactivity is what keeps the player engaged.

>>377324241
the shadowrun games suck

I thought Shadowrun Dragonfall was pretty good, and Pillars was okay

haven't really played any of the other new CRPGs, what's the verdict on them?

>>377324695
They never were popular.

>>377325356
correction, the new shadowrun games. Older shadowrun games like the snes and sega ones were pretty good.

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>>377323957
>I wonder why copy-paste mechanics from 20 years ago aren't a blockbuster today
cRPGs must makes of TECHNOLOGY or perish

>>377325163
I'm looking forward to these very much.
>>377325182
I was thinking about this, and if it does happen, surely it will be a Diablo-clone.

>>377325134
I agree, I remember playing games over and over again and reading everything because I had no other games to play unless my father bought one and internet speeds were shit and didn't know anything about pirating a game.

The story and fluff text is usually shit nowadays, so I just don't waste my time with those games.

there's a couple of actual good ones like age of decadence and underrail. obsidian has lost their touch though

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>>377325356
you suck my dick

>>377325421
Okay, your opinion is still terrible though.

>>377325256
He's an ADHD subhuman. He's gonna suffer enough.

>RPG "fans"

why does everyone have to be an amateur game designer who has this interesting and important insight on why x was terrible or something

you're just some guy. you don't know shit

>>377325382
the Baldur's Gate games sold about 2 million each

>>377323957
people have grown to want things immediately and they don't like reading anymore

The only objective complaint about Pillars is that real time with pause is terrible

>>377325541
Thats your opinion anon, and i dont give a fuck about your shitty opinion

Just got Divinity yesterday and it's fucking great. Voice acting makes me cringe sometimes, but seems like a lot of mechanical depth and I can dig that.

>>377325592
>don't like reading anymore
short and sweet is always preferable. just get to the fucking point.

>>377325592
>real time with pause is terrible
(you)

>>377325356
nah

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>>377325761

>>377325225
Wasteland 2 needs to be modded to make 1/2 of the weapon types viable. To me that pretty much sums up these sorts of 'Old devs, new game' sorts of deals. They're stuck in the 80-90s when shit gameplay and bad stories didn't matter.

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>>377325568
fuck off Gaider

>>377325356
they are mediocre

Too much reading for me, honestly. Big giant paragraphs scare me, I like quick little dialogs.

>>377325761
It's shit. I wish there were more good turn-based RPGs.

>>377325890
literally every cRPG is turn-based faggot
PoE is the only RTwP game out there. fucking kys. turn based is shit.

>>377325880
How do you read books?

>>377326045
I'm a gamer not a booker

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>>377323957
Having guns in an isometric game makes the isometric view much more relevant because the angles are everything. Hell, look at the new X-Com games and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. In a fantasy setting it's of zero importance and nearly every time offers absolutely nothing gameplay-wise. D:OS managed to circumvent this, which is exactly why it's absolutely amazing gameplay-wise. Most fantasy CRPGs however would just be better in a different visual format.

Yes, I'm saying you should only make contemporary/futuristic isometric RPGs. I'm dead fucking serious. DEAD FUCKING SERIOUS

they need to have interesting settings like PS:T and quests/story/exploration that capitalize on those interesting settings

I can't be arsed to care about a tolkien-esque high fantasy setting for the millionth time

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>>377325845
>bbc news

>>377326045
>millenials
>reading
lol

>>377325513
>>377325764
garbage writing, filled with cliches, combat is mediocre. overbearing libcuck themes. the games suck ass. germans really suck ass at making rpgs

>>377325851
t. about to have a big frothy rpg codex rant about vancian spellcasting or something

can't you just not like a game

>>377326119
yeah except for spells and bows and crossbows and javelins and shit

I like reading so these games are cool by me. Except Inquisitor, that's too much reading.

>>377326045
I don't read them much, but it was more tolerable because that's all there is to reading is to keep reading. In RPGs, I'm more interested in character building and it feels like that gets in the way. It's true for a lot of gameplay mechanics for me. For example, I like building and expanding in 4X games, but the combat system itself in Endless Legend gets in the way for me, the same way reading does for these RPGs.

>>377325356
>dude, what if we make the KKK 1000 times more violent and the main threat of the game
still regret every minute of the 12 hours i spent with Dragonfall.

>>377324082
On here? Sure.
But not in the broad sense of popular.
Honestly it was the only one of them which I enjoyed so much that I replayed it several times.
It doesn't loredump on you with contstant exposition, it doesn't break immersion with shitty "backer content", the combat is quite deep and there are a lot of playstyles and playthrough exclusive content.

None of the other games deliverd any of this, except maybe DIV:OS which is held down by the co-op which doesn't interest me at all.
Couldn't finish Wasteland 2 or PoE, almost fell alseep because of how shitty and braindead the combat was in them while being a HUGE part of the games.

>>377326119
I agree with you, honestly, I would love a cRPG that felt close to XCOM combat-wise

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>>377326267
wow a cyberpunk thriller with shit writing? say it isn't so!

they're literally all just tropes, from floor to ceiling.

But they're fun

>>377326342
but the main threat is the dragon scientist guy, what are you talking about?

>>377326272
>yeah except for spells and bows and crossbows and javelins and shit
Spells to an extent yes, but in a grid-based system like in the days of old that is neutered too. The others stuff? Sure was important in Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and NWN, right?

>>377323957
Isometric players are old now. Older people don't want to play SJW bullshit. So these developers have shat on the base.

>>377326442
It wasnt fun enough to make me play it.
Its one of those games you dont even want to pirate

>>377326442
kreuzbasar was a really comfy hub

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sasQwLn0c8U

>>377326575
what does it matter how good they were in those games. you're trying to say something about fantasy settings in general, and it's dumb as shit

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>>377326267
Is this in Germany?
Someone help please.

>>377326342
yeah, it was terrible. the writing and themes were garbage. the first hour i'm talking to this guy and the game wants me to believe a fucking dragon killing tens of thousands of people only 42 years ago is some forgotten world event. it made me say "what the fuck" out loud. then immediately you step out into the city and you talk to some guy who only hires immigrants because they are poor and oppressed. in the game's defense you could still challenge him on his beliefs, but i don't think i couldn't stomach the medicore combat, terrible writing and now these faggot fucking libcuck themes

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>you will NEVER racter

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I want a Darkest Dungeon fully-fledged RPG

>>377326369
Ignus and Vhailor are pretty useless desu senpai

wasteland 2 is a good game

>>377326725
read the filename you cuck
It's in space

One thing most of the recent cRPGs have in common is that the character models look really fucking awful. Like, worse than a ps1 game awful. That really sucks in a character-driven game with creatable player character.

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>>377326872
DF and HK had pretty good companions

Eiger is top-tier waifu

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>>377326983

>>377327029
gobbet a bro

Pathfinder crpg with Avellone on staff soon, more news at the end of the month

>>377323957
>WL2 only sold 300k less than PoE
>>they haven't been anywhere near that kind of success
huh? Did they also forget D:OS, a game that came out before PoE, sold 300+k more than PoE? What a faggot.

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>>377327004
god, this. I don't mind the tiny character models during exploration looking bad, but would it kill them to make it look nice for the character/inventory screen?

POE2 seems a little better than 1 in that regard

>>377323957
Tyranny was literally the worst of all the new CRPGs released.
Its no wonder it didnt sell that much and I'm glad it didnt.

It felt like Tyrrany went out of its way to be unlikable.

They actually managed to make the combat worse than PoE, dumped shitloads of text on you before you had a reason to care about any of it, and then hit you with a an in-game time limit.

I don't even know if the time limit was important, I just thought "I don't really want to deal with that at the moment", and went to do something else. My memory of the game at that point wasn't positive enough to ever come back.

>>377324082
I just started a playthrough recently due to the humble bundle. I've never played this genre but I gotta say this game is great. I might try the old fallouts now

>>377324694
I hate to agree. Back as a 90's teen I finished BG2 like 10 times, finished torment and arcanum and read every piece of dialogue without skipping. Was so excited for Pillars when it released but I quickly realized I was skipping text more and more. At the end of the game I didn't even bother reading. Same with Tyranny.

>>377326696
Yeah they should be copying Original Sin's gameplay or come up with cover system that works against spells or something, then the isometric view would serve an actual purpose.
It was alright in 2000 because of technical limitations, but nowadays you need something else.

>>377326983
The original wasn't. DC was.

>>377327338
there is nothing wrong with isometric

>>377325356
>Not enjoying dragonfall or Hong Kong
Returns was not good though

>>377327029
I only really liked Racter from HK. Gobbet and Gaichu weren't bad but not that good either.

The nignog dwarf and Duncan were shit. They should've added that vampire LARP chick as a permanent party member. She seemed fun.

>>377323957
How are Isometric RPGs different than, say, KOTOR or Dragon Age?
Other than being 2d and the tacked on 3rd person perspective of those games. I don't remeber KOTOR but DA had an option to see the game isometrically anyway

>>377327338
yeah okay

you tell me how to control 4-6 characters in a not-isometric game

>>377327449
honestly I thought HK was markedly worse than DF, I played for 10 hours or so but just didn't go on to finish it

the matrix changes only made it super tedious instead of more interesting

party based combat is tedious, real time is better, but turn based is just a slog. real time is better when you just control one character though.

>>377325890
This. There's no point in real time with pause, only makes the gameplay a clusterfuck and breaks the flow horribly.

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Plebs don't like isometric because it makes them think of toys or some shit.

>>377327749
generalisations like this make you sound stupid desu

>>377325990
jesus christ you're retarded

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>>377323957
Fucking hell man I hate the games industry.

Tyranny releases. I buy it and fucking love it it's one of my fav CRPGs by now.

torment tide of numenera releases. I but it and it's almost as good as the original I fucking love it and it's again high on my top CRPG list.

No one else buys the games and /v/ shits on it causing a lot of people that didn't even try it to assume they are bad as well meaning they will lose sales.

I fucking hate this industry. We finally get GOOD ACTUAL VIDEOGAMES and people don't buy it and instead just hate on it simply to hate on shit because you're all unhappy jaded faggots.

Fuck you all for taking this away from me.

>>377327925
ha, that's cause I am stupid.

But seriously, it;s because the revival games are all mediocre. Except maybe Dragonfall.

>>377326786
I shouldn't really respond to this cunt but here goes: Fuck off back to /pol/ so you can be in your little safe-zone echo-chamber, free of triggers for your tiny little brain.

As long as we are getting poor imitations of classics, no.

>>377323957
>Tyranny
>Tranny

Now you know.

>>377327974
>you're all unhappy jaded faggots
it is the reason I signed up for the gamer identity after all.

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>>377323957
>Will isometric CRPGs ever be relevant again?
What on Earth are you smoking, dumbfuck? How many copies does an isometric RPG need to sell to be considered """relevant"""? Is a million+ copies not enough? PoE sold THRICE more copies on PC than fucking A Tomato - a normie magnet ACTION game and has 86% rating on Steam, LMAO.

Fucking imbeciles, I swear.

let's be honest here. remember when you were a kid or a teen and you'd be offered to play the same game but you have to choose to play it first person/third person OR from the top like in CRPGs

Everyone would rather have it the first way

>>377327629
It's not so much the isometric aspect, but rather the very strong focus on dialogue and role play(or replay ability if you don't like roleplay).

>>377323957
I found PoE, Tyranny and the like to be great. Iso games are a niche market and should be regarded as such.

>>377327680
Dunno about that. Maybe someone will figure it out. Or maybe do it like Dragon Age Origins did it. That's another "isometric" fantasy game that just worked by the way. You could take away the wannabe WoW third person mode and it would still work just as well.
I don't claim to have the answers to all the problems, I just see that in most of these fantasy isometric games there is a disconnect between the UI and the gameplay, and that's a big problem when you can't chalk it up to "technical limitations".

>>377323957
>relevant
To the mainstream?
Highly unlikely.

But games like Wasteland can easily recoup their costs.
It's just that Tyranny kinda came out of nowhere and didn't get a lot of buzz. And honestly, I don't need another Baldur's Gate-ish game every year. Besides, I personally absolutely can't stand RTWP.

>>377324082
Ca. 110k sales according to Steamspy.
A financial success, but I'm not sure how you can bring that up when OP was talking about "relevancy".

These games failed due to veterans experiencing a lapse of incompetence, fawning over basic or shit design choices.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=10609

>>377328350
That game is fucking awful though.

>>377328529
Your irrelevant opinion is fucking awful.

>>377328359
they're just different perspectives. I loved playing Quake just as much as I loved playing Diablo

>>377328602
your the one who's irrelevant and awful

>>377328350
>thrice
heh...you come in here trying to sound sophisticated, methinks. but that's not a word!

*flaps trenchcoat behind me*

>>377328701
I'm not the one spouting retarded opinions, mongoloid.

>>377323957
>Titles after Pillars of Eternity
>Wasterland
But Wasterland was pitched and released before PoE?
>This form of gameplay isn't really working in today's evironment
Considering how shitty the gameplay for PoE was at release, is not fucking wonder.

Unfortunately for any game to be really "relevant" they need to appeal to the young adults audience. That's how you grow your market and fans. Yes CRPG oldfags are starved for content and basically eat up mediocre to shit content like PoE every time one gets released.
But for the genre to not be selling based on nostalgia alone it needs to change to attract young gamers. Basically much better graphics, much better combat than two rag dolls standing next to each other with numbers popping out every second etc.

>>377328602
It's a very widely held opinion. I'v yet to see anyone make any convincing counter-arguments anywhere.

>>377328815
this, it's why Div: OS was somewhat of a success

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Brief nostalgia bubble, but missing the bit to sustain it as they are extremely niche

One thing cRPGs could stand to add is romance - the desire for that in RPGs will NEVER die off, and it's asked in forums for basically every single RPG in existence

>>377324364
At least it was better than PoE...

>>377325428
Can't wait for DM mode

>>377325356
Not Hong Kong

I played through Torment: Tides Of Numenara recently and it was okay. The combat was very clunky, especially if you had a lot of enemies, though thankfully combat can be avoided most of the time. A lot of text, which I didn't mind, and the pacing was a bit weird. Incredibly slow start, then it gets almost too fast.

>>377328815
Yeah I think the OP asked the wrong question. The better question is: will anyone take up the mantle and make a quality CRPG again, despite that being a poor business move?

>>377329000
I think romance is a fine addition as long as it doesn't end up like later Bioware games, where the entire cast is tailored around being romanceable and most of the audience is teen girls

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>>377328893
>It's a very widely held opinion.
LMAO, then show me the numbers, you shit-eating contrarian cuck. You speak about "counter-arguemnts", yet there's nothing to counter apart from subjective shit falling from your mouth.

Look at picrelated, this is reality. Keep your delusions about "widely held opinions" inside of your hollow head.

>>377329101
Being better than shit isnt a big accomplishment

>>377324364
Tyranny made a big mistake. Normies won't buy CRPGs unless it's by some huge AAA company and maybe not even then. So the mistake Obsidian made is this. They simplified Tyranny's gameplay for the more mass market appeal. Being a CRPG alone already isolates the mass market and it being simplified alienated the CRPG fans.

No, because each and everyone of "le nostalgic CRPG" Kickstarter games turned out to be mediocre, and have completely failed to recapture the essence of what made them good.

With the exception of Torment ofcourse, which turned out to be a straight up fucking shovelware scam.

>>377329157
>audience is teen girls
that's a very lucrative market, though.

>>377329167
You don't realise it but you are arguing semantics. How many people have to have an opinion for it to be widely held? 10000? 1000000? For the record I don't give a shit about user reviews since user reviewers people are morons, and paid reviews are corrupt. I care about people who actually present arguments.

You all have very good opinions on things you haven't played or played when you were four. This post may or may not be cynical/sarcastic.

>>377329123
>The combat was very clunky
I think a big part of the problem is that this describes a lot of CRPGs. I honestly don't know if is because "muh nostalgia"-gameplay, they make shit combat so "you think about other options" or just straight out suck at make fun gameplay

the only reason to make isometric rpg. is budget.
every isometric rpg would be a fuck ton better in a 3rd person full 3d world.
i want temple of elemental evil as a real time adventure rpg a la witcher 3

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>>377329767

>>377329894
graphics fags need to kill themselves

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>>377329504
>and have completely failed to recapture the essence of what made them good
I fucking love when dumbfucks spout retarded nonsense like this. Each objective metric speaks of exactly the opposite: sales, concurrent player numbers, Steam ratings, even "gaming journalist" ratings and I'm not talking about PoE alone. But no, why would a dumbfuck bother himself with looking up actual facts, he would rather pull a retarded opinion out of his putrid ass and spout nonsense. This would be hilarious, if it wasn't so sad. Why the fuck am I even trying to explain anything to the brain-dead mongoloids here?

I need to rethink my life.

>>377329720
>How many people have to have an opinion for it to be widely held?
Certainly more than one retarded dumbfuck on /v/, that's for sure.

>I care about people who actually present arguments.
So you don't care about yourself? Great, then you won't find it difficult to choke the everliving hist out of your retarded self, you inbred fuck.

>>377329894
I hope you're just bating.

>>377329894
honestly the 2d environments in the Infinity Engine games were aesthetic

>>377330130
im not.
i like baldurst gate, icewind dale, temple of elemental evil, neverwinter nights.
but i fucking hate the isometric point of view. it was ok 17 years ago, but right now, using that camera is just for nostalgia or because budget

>>377329894
>>377329965

>>377328893
most of the time your argument is "it's shit and boring". I think a suitable counterargument would be "no it isn't"

>>377329482
Tyranny's only flaw was the significant lack of enough content in one playthrough when compared to PoE and the lack of enemy variety. It's combat and magic system is miles ahead of PoE.

That and triggering /v/ so hard they shitposted it to death.

>>377330349
2D isometric is good, and I love it, but 3D isometric, my god, that whole thing should be purged.

>mfw /v/ doesn't know what isometric means

>>377329720

you look like a gay cuck in damage control mode and that other anon is roasting you

>>377330756
It's easier to just call it all isometric, or top-down.

>>377330103

Honestly, another anon here, but as much as I'll defend most of the RPG renaissance games, majority of them don't compare with the classics.

I'm thinking development ethos has changed way too much for that lightning to be caught in the bottle again.

Just look at the recent "blob" addition in Torment/Numenera. Parceled development inherited from modern dev, where each element ends up unconnected to all the others, unable to produce a cohesive gestalt.
Quantity only goes so far.

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>Will isometric CRPGs ever be relevant again?
Not while tumblr is in charge of the writing

>>377323957
It's not important whether they're relevant or not. Japan has been successful enough doing AA JRPGs for years.
And arguably AAA RPGs tend to be shit in general (just like AAA anything tends to be shit).

Some of the best RPGs of the past years such as Underrail or Age of Decadence were made with a tiny budget and easily surpass most high profile titles.

>>377325231
You do realize they are fans of the original Fallout series? That was a source of inspiration for them.

>>377330887
I'll never understand why people like this cheesy romance novel type shit in games like this. I'll never be that lonely and I'm fucking lonely.

>>377329157
I was thinking along the lines of something like Baldur's gate, how it's not intrusive and completely optional but does add a deeper level of interaction with one of your party members.

>>377326113
t. brainlet

>>377330663
The magic system was a nice idea in theory but implemented badly, and the combat system was garbage.

>>377330952

Just because you're a fan of something doesn't mean you haven any way near the needed skill to pull something similar of.

>>377326786
>talk to some guy who only hires immigrants because they are poor and oppressed

I think the game starts in Berlin so it's a pretty accurate prediction. But the Bioware Writing is worse than actual Bioware titles. Why even make me click a line of text when they all very obviously mean the same thing and lead to the same outcome? For what purpose? But yeah the SJW undertones and the silent assumption that I agree with them were annoying, on top of the gameplay being shit it made me drop the game several hours in.

>>377323957

Quality, how is this not completely blazingly obvious?

>Pillars
PoE looked and sounded wonderful so it was actually an interesting playthrough, sure the story could have gone more places and there could have been a bit more castle content but overall it was a decent game.
>Divinity OS
Fucking amazing game.
>Wasteland
Good idea but poor execution, it took them a very long time to even attempt to fix it with their re-release but it still didn't make it all that good.
>Torment
An absolute mess that didn't even come close to what people were hoping it would be, extremely short as well.
>Tyranny
Most people didn't even know it existed or when it was released, also very short and overpriced.

Makes me wonder how people get paid to make/write about games when they can't see the obvious.

>>377331118

Agreed about magic, that's definitely something I would enjoy seeing another iteration.

Linking exploration to power-growth made it pretty cool.

>>377324082
>>377324082
Underrail is the shit

Based story, based gameplay, no SJW bullshit and great mechanics

fight me faggots, it's brilliant and a DLC is about to come out too.

>>377325182
They're going to annouce fallout 5 at E3 and it will be MOBA type game

>>377323957
It never was relevant, lol. BG sold some 2 millions but that's it.

>>377326932
Fuck you

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>>377327680
1993

>>377324082
I loving it

Btw i already buy PoE 2

I sure hope they don't fuck up Bard's Tale IV.

>>377327223
Divinity and the Shadowrun games always get forgotten in these articles, as the "journos" want to pretend only Obsidian is making them. It's asinine as Divinity has the best combat and Shadowrun the best writing (fuck off weebs; nobody gives a shit what your anime obsessed retard minds think).

Wasteland 3 is in development:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9SvLO27K7g

>>377326932
But both of them are more interesting than anyone form the NU-MEN-era

Anyone knows why, as opposed to Fallout 1, Fallout 2 only had the 1 possible ending and allegiance?

If they are developed for their target audience on small budgets, yes, they wont be relevant in the sense that they will change the industry, but there is a fanbase for them. Dont try to give them mainstream appeal, the current market treats games like this as archaic. Much like fixed camera angle games, its seen as backwards. Why have a percentage based combat system when games allow players to actually aim for themselves etc.

>>377332101
feels hype man

I need to finish 2, it's so comfy

>>377331998

I love them, but it's kinda hard to put the Harebrained Schemes Shardowrun games in the old-school category, when really what they are is modern Bioware done right on a budget.

>>377331998
>as the "journos" want to pretend only Obsidian is making them.

These journos are mostly americans, because they said the same thing about point'n'click games are dead while they never died in europe.

>>377326045
Nigga, you want to read a book, you read a book, you want to get fucked by a big dicked futa orc in Skyrim, you play Skyrim

>>377323957
Divinity seems fairly relevant now.

>>377323957
It can be but its unlikely. The biggest problem is people go to these RPG's to get CHOICES. They want to be in control. They don't want your story they want their own story. They want to be as in control as possible. They want you to paint a pretty picture then fuck off while they do what ever they want.

The problem with that is its HARD to make. It takes time and real effort because you run into diminishing returns. Each REAL choice splits the player base. With just one real choice you are looking up to 50% of your game from that point on not being seen in that play through. Developers hate this because they cant pad out the game for marketing reasons.

This is why Tyranny flopped so fucking hard. they sold us on the pretty picture then gave us fucking nothing to work with. The player is not in control of their character. I mean fuck the ending literally slaps you in the face with a dick and says "Fuck you do X or you don't get an ending" No mater what your character motivations are or what your character would do if you want to end the game you HAVE to do what the developers picked out for you. The game is riddled with shit like that. Once the word got out that the game was fucked that bad it was dropped as their target audience literally didn't want to play it.

We cant look to AAA developers or publishers for good RPG's we have to more or less hope small dedicated groups succeed if we want good RPG's.

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>>377327974
Yea, fuck the games industry, I would buy Tyranny, but then I saw this

>>377332526

>>377325568

>>377323957
Wanna know why they dont sell?
The market is saturated. Theres been like 15 different games or re-releases in this genre out of fucking nowhere.

I only ever heard of Wasteland and Pillars, Baldurs rerelease and Torment rerelease.

> CRPGS start catering to SJWs with racial and gender diversity, transgender characters and censoring of "Offensive" lines.

> People stop buying them.

Huh.

>>377328459
>disconnect between the UI and the gameplay
Wut.

I'm playing Pillars of Eternity right now. My first cRPG. Its good but theres so much fucking text that I've resorted to just skimming over it at this point. It annoys me when the voice acting happens too because it distracts me from reading it quickly.

Also completely skipping the backer story NPCs.

The game is fun but there's so much there its overwhelming at times. I've literally just finished all the quests I can find in Defiance Bay and I've been there for 3 days.

>>377331267
Why do people still shit on WL2? DC was a good re-release and I honestly enjoyed it about as much as I did with D:OS. I suppose not all the stats were fleshed out and the character creation was shit, but otherwise I had a lot of fun with the revamped combat and balances. Most of those problems D:OS had, as well, just to a lesser extent.

>>377332842
developers are just being themselves, shitlord. they're going to make what they want.

>>377333015
remember to white march, it's 10/10

>>377333096
I think they probably never got over that first hour or so hump where you don't really know what you're doing and aren't attached to your characters

>>377333096
I couldn't play it because of the camera. Otherwise, it seemed fine.

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>>377332597
How weird, its free for me

>>377333015
Why would you play a text-heavy game and ignore most of the text?

>>377332668

If anything, it shows us how the changes in demographics impacted the genre: video games used to an enthusiasts market with games made by enthusiasts for enthusiasts. Video games now are a bona fide industry made by professionals to as big a market as possible - mass market being the hope.

But then the tRPG crows is still the former, and still tend to favor productions that fall under that mold. The disconnect is big.

I mean, for a different genre just compare the Thief and Thiaf design documents. You can see the change.

Would most of these old school crpg's be possible to remake today in a 3rd person perspective whilst also retaining the same level of quality? The problem with CRPG's nowadays is that a lot of them are isometric and isometric perspectives are not very engaging. Combat is very boring due as well. Saying this as someone who's 3rd favorite game (Planescape) is isometric.

>>377333409
Because there's way too much of it for mundane stuff. Like I find some kid who wants a dagger and he tells me his lifestory instead of just asking me to get the dagger.

I don't mind loads of text for important moments.

I'd buy a turn-based or non-party based CRPG in a heartbeat. I still play NWN1 every so often. The main thing keeping me from enjoying most CRPGs is the "pause, assign ten million commands to 6 people, unpause for 3 seconds, repeat" combat system. It's extremely tedious.

>>377333302
haha :DDDD

>>377333574
>Combat is very boring due as well.
>Saying this as someone who's 3rd favorite game (Planescape) is isometric.
It seems Planescape is the only isometric game you have played.

>>377333736
I don't see how is this different from "assign ten million commands to 6 people, press end of the turn button, repeat".

>>377333574
>The problem with CRPG's nowadays is that a lot of them are isometric and isometric perspectives are not very engaging. Combat is very boring due as well

these are just your opinions

>>377333427
I can see that thiaf is shit, but I think it's silly to think games from 15 years ago did not have similar budget constraints and pressure from publishers affecting them

>>377333736
This is why RtwP is crap. We need more turn-based RPGs.

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>>377323957
>make awful games
>there's no market for it!

Fuck off.

>>377334104
usually there is no end turn button in turn based rpgs. It's not Civ

>>377333096
A lot of people never made it to California, and the game only starts to resemble Fallout once you get there and into the cities. They shouldn't have waited so long to introduce a major city.

>>377334228
>what is wizardry

>>377334228
>

>>377333736
Play Wasteland 2, if you've ever played Jagged Alliance or X-COM you'll fit right into the combat.

>>377334104
It's different because turn-based games are usually designed so that the pace of combat doesn't get tedious. Real time pause games seem to be designed as if the player isn't even using the pause button, so even the simplest combat can take forever.

>>377334206
>underaged
>maggot

Fuck off.

>>377333736
buy underrail lad

>>377333994
I've played Fallout 1/2, Arcanum, Diablo 1/2, Jagged Alliance 2, Ice Wind Dale 1/2, XCOM Enemy Unknown, DO: S, PoE, Grim Dawn, and Path of Exile. Isometrics are good for one thing and that's party based gameplay. Which I love and hope that someone is able to capture in third person very well.

>>377334384
>>377334449
Thanks, I'll try those.

>>377333574
>Would most of these old school crpg's be possible to remake today in a 3rd person perspective whilst also retaining the same level of quality?
they absolutely can be. The reason why they're not being made is the budget. Obsidian's CEO said recently that PoE't total budget was around ~$10 million, distribution and advertising included. In order for them to make a 1st or 3rd person RPG, they would need something around $40-60m.

That's a lot of money to crowdfund, and so they would need a publisher, which in turn would take away part of the creative freedom and the rights to the IP. And this is assuming there's a publisher willing to fund their game in the first place

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>>377334384
>Wasteland 2
>like anything but Xcom:EU but a million times worse

>>377329101
How does it feel to be a fucking retard? POE was as good as neverwinter games while tranny was just some tumblr indie game

>>377324082
Magic is gay since it's only a supplement to physical combat.

>>377331512
how come you can't express love for something without homophobia?
Are you ashamed of something?

>guy with dumb name is dumb

PoE sold well because Obsidian an estabkished studio with both mainstream and hobbyist appeal and PoE generated a lot of hype through the Kickstarter campaign effectively ensuring both funding and marketing.
Original Sinalso did very well.

On the other hand you have inXile, a company of washed out hasbeens formed solely for dipping into the crowd funding sauce by coning people into funding shitty sequels to classics of the 80s and 90s.
Wasteland and Tworment didn't sell well because most people who wanted them invested in the KS and the games themselves suck, and Shadowrun only did marginally better because of the casual appeal of the games and aggressive marketing through massive discounts.

PoE and DivOS did good because they are good games, WL2 and Tworment didn't because they suck.

>>377323957
i'm sad to say this but i don't think they will.

>>377334161
>but I think it's silly to think games from 15 years ago did not have similar budget constraints and pressure from publishers affecting them

I did not say otherwise, that' not what's at stake. The people making the games changed. And the people for whom they are being made changed.

And the culture changed. Modern mass market doesn't have the same expectations about games as hte old school dedicated players had..
Something you can in the very vocabulary (just the transition from "beating" to "finishing" games).

People making those old crpgs where people who played tRPGs. Played computer games. Wanted to make something hybrid, for their own enjoyment and the enjoyment of people sharing their taste.
That's not who is making those modern iterations.

And as I mentioned here >>377330851 I'm thinking the changes in development ethos - and quite obviously structure also have a huge impact.

>I can see that thiaf is shit

As per what I just said, it's perfectly true, but irrelevant to the argument at hand.
Can never be said too much though.

>>377323957
When they will go back to their tabletop roots.
https://owlcatgames.com/

>>377334956
fuck off you faggot, why are you such a homophile hmm??

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>>377334475
Can't capture that shit well in 3rd person. You can do it, sure. It'll just always be a shitty, confusing mess that forces everything to be ten times as frustrating as it needs to be for no sensible reason.

Why the fuck would anyone make a game isometric?

It's completely retarded. Just a nostalgia so misguided it mimics a technological limitation.

Just make it top down 3D with rotation you stupid fucks. The contrast between the animated sprites and the handdrawn background is fucking retarded and just makes the game look like you're playing DnD with neckbeards and figurines on paper map. Fuck.

Also, fuck the whole vancian magic crap that cRPGs have. Literally unplayable garbage. Compare DA:O to Baldur's Gate II. DA:O is probably the best fantasy RPG of all time and BG II is unplayable trash.

>>377335515
DA:O is mediocrity made game, the fuck are you on about ?

>>377335515
>makes the game look like you're playing DnD with neckbeards and figurines on paper map
Thats the point.
>Compare DA:O to Baldur's Gate II. DA:O is probably the best fantasy RPG of all time and BG II is unplayable trash.
Oh, it was a bait post, silly me.

>>377335515
Agreed, also what is up with cRPGS using dice? Like nigger computer games were invented so you didn't have to roll 2D5 and shiet.

Just be a normal person and do 11-23 damage.

>>377328050
>Crowbarring politics into games
They deserve to get shat on.

And the idea of an immigrant being "oppressed" in Germany is nothing short of ridiculous.

>>377326365
>it doesn't break immersion with shitty "backer content", the combat is quite deep and there are a lot of playstyles and playthrough exclusive content.
You might like Age of Decadence.

>>377324773
Tyranny was full of SJW shit.

>>377335515
>DA:O is probably the best fantasy RPG of all time and BG II is unplayable trash.
what the fuck?

DA:O is mediocrity at its finest.

Could at least have picked Divinity: Original Sin if you're just gonna toss the story and aesthetics out the window in favour of gameplay. Only thing remotely innovative or intersting about DA:O was how you could automate all your party members to make your party play every encounter out for you without you having to actually do anything yourself. But they scrapped that for the sequels so...

>>377335839
I don't understand why /v/ would think PoE is good. It's literally has tumblr and reddit fanfiction as part of the game.

Actually, I understand perfectly why /v/ would think PoE is good.

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>>377335663
It could be good, but they went full "we want Martin's audience".

>>377336158
Because you can kill baker npcs.

>>377336015
such us ? give me examples

>>377335668
>>377336091
>Isometric cRPGs
>innovative

They're literally DnD made even less convenient with the power of computers.

DA:O had a serviceable story, good immersion, fun gameplay, and modding support to clean up after Bioware's shit. Surprisingly, that's all you need to be the best fantasy rpg of all time.

>>377336091
You could give scripts to your party in the IE games.

>>377336158
Backer NPC in PoE are absolutely disregardeableand if you read them the joke is on you.
The game is not amazing and has a lot of issues but it's pretty decent and fills a niche in the Salvatore sense and it has the decency of being pretty short.

>>377335515
There is no fucking benefit in "real" 3D. It takes more effort to make and optimise since you need to put more technical expertise into your maps and from a tactical point of view it makes zero difference.

>>377332668
Oh of course I don't know shit. But It is my favorite kind of video game and I have been watching reactions to various RPG's from multiple sources and what I wrote is almost always the case.

If you want a mainstream example look at Mass effect. ME1 was pretty well received and the promise of choices caring over throughout the trilogy were propped up. Its exactly what the players wanted. Then 2 came out and people got grumpy as it was obvious that the plans had changed but it was still okay then 3 came out and shit hit the fan. It hit the fan so hard that they created a whole new ending because the outcry was so massive.

People want choice. They want to be in the pilots ship making their own choices and leading their own story. They want their actions to have persistent relate able consequences.

>>377336419

You can innovate under the hood on things that aren't graphics you know?

Game systems being one. Which I would argue *are* the things you want to see innovate for a game.

>>377336527

Zero difference is going too far. Having to take bot x and y axis can change a lot of things from a tactical standpoint, if your maps are well designed, and you systems in place allow for that qualitative difference.
If you don't have that later, then obviously going 3D is mostly a waste of resources.

>>377335515
>the best fantasy RPG of all time
But thats Witcher 3, anon.

>>377336928
The vast majority of RPGs using 3D engines don't really make use of the y-axis. Not to mention that you can also have 'something' like it with a 2D engine in simply declaring certain areas to be elevated.

>>377336975
Fuck off with your movies man

>>377336975
Witcher 3 came later so I have a hard time comparing the two.

Plus, playing Geralt and doing Geralty things in an aRPG kindda style is a bit different than create a character from scratch.

>>377326872
Racter was probably the best companion is HK
also Koschei is a fucking best

DivOS is on sale on Steam, worth a buy?

>>377336975
Wrong, thats Zelda:BotW.

>>377336975
Skyrim is better

>>377337079

Oh definitely, but then that's not out of any innate lack of value in adding that y axis.

It's a matter of design opportunity cost most of the times.

>Not to mention that you can also have 'something' like it with a 2D engine in simply declaring certain areas to be elevated.

Not the same granularity, not the same systemic exceptions.
Acceptable in-between in a lot of cases though.

I loved D:OS and will buy sequel. T(y)ranny was fucking terrible. Bad setting, Bad story, bad characters, bad gameplay, bad art

>>377337149
>>377337207
>>377337348
>>377337396
>guaranteed replies
Nice.

>>377337327
I've been playing the PS4 version for the past few days,it's pretty enjoyable. Being able to steal pretty much fucking everything is nice.

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>>377336419
>DA:O had a serviceable story, good immersion, fun gameplay, and modding support to clean up after Bioware's shit
It didn't, tho. Story was garbage, world was the most bland, uninspired setting I've ever seen, and like I said, the best part of that game's "gameplay" was automating your party to do everything for you. Kind of like how the most fun you can have in Diablo 3 these days is by seeing how well you can optimize your bot. The gameplay sure doesn't offer anything engaging anymore.

And modding support is like... what mods does it even have? And why would I want to play them? Sure am not going back to repeat 99% of the story to see the 1% that some mod slightly altered. We're not talking Skyrim here, where people just run around and do whatever while completely ignoring the story, allowing any mod you install to be accessible right away.

>>377336475
>You could give scripts to your party in the IE games.
And they were all terrible, choppy, unresponsive messes. Only good ones were the cheating scripts, eh?

>>377337420
I essentially agree, but my point is: most RPGs are already low on budget and have other things to focus on than just tactical combat.

While in theory you could have great kits for 3D pieces at the same time varied maps that make use of the third dimension and whatelse, but practically the scope of most developers is fairly limited. 2D engines allow the developers to make their maps in 3d CG programs mostly rather than design elaborate kits which given the fact that good technical artists are rare takes a huge load off their backs and I'd also argue allows more easily for varied looking maps.

I'm merely saying that rather than trying to be a jack of all trades devs should know their capabilities and what kind of game they want to make. In the end for most RPGs 2d engines would be perfectly sufficient.

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>>377323957
Those games have no reason to exist. Even fucking call of duty has more innovation that isometric crpgs these days. Same bland settings. Same boring turn-based combat. What does POE do that BGII didn't already do better 15 years ago, seriously? Why does it even exist? It's pure nostalgia pandering.

Give me an isometric crpg in a modern setting. Experiment with combat or don't even do combat at all. Do something new, not this gay-metal fantasy DnD bullshit.

Fuck this genre. It should've stayed dead.

>>377337630
Zelda one is right though. Open world games in general now have a benchmark.

>>377337821
What ?
I pretty much played through BG and BG2 with scripts for everyone but the main characters.

should I buy Tyranny?

>>377338079
>Same boring turn-based combat.
Funny because PoE and BGII had rtwp combat.

>Give me an isometric crpg in a modern setting.
Like Underrail or Shadowrun?

>Experiment with combat
Like how? Allowing you to make use of non-combat skills in combat or approach characters in dialogue? Torment: Numenera - for all its faults - actually did some interesting things in that direction. And Age of Decadence took the whole "no combat" thing to a completely new level.

Clearly you have no idea about the genre you're talking about.

>>377338253
It's fairly mediocre.

Wait until it's on sale and don't pay more than 15 bux.

>>377338253

Look, you're on PC, whatever the propaganda may, pirate before you buy is still a viable, worthwhile option.

Personally, I think it's worth experiencing. The game is really rough in how it both offers you options and then funnels into into preordained paths.

It also offers interesting combat options (mainly the magic system, but not strictly limited) but then as one of the most unimaginative encounter design to date.

There *are* things to be enjoyed there. Interesting to experience if you're a fan of the genre. But it's not a great game by any stretch.

>>377338392
>Like Underrail or Shadowrun?

This isn't modern settings you retard. It's post-apo and cyberpunk. Persona games do modern day setting. The World Ends with You is modern setting. isometric crpgs don't

>Like how?

Like make it not shit. Combat is literally the worst thing about those games, right there with walls of text. The systems aren't even interesting, your bog standard weebshit animu girl jrpgs have combat systems with more depth than all those crpg revivalism titles.

>>377338906
>This isn't modern settings you retard. It's post-apo and cyberpunk.
> Persona games do modern day setting. The World Ends with You is modern setting. isometric crpgs don't

The word you're looking for is contemporary.

And really, to be honest, if you leave the esthetic and techno-fetishism aside, the contemporary world is depressingly cyberpunk.

>>377338906
>This isn't modern settings you retard. It's post-apo and cyberpunk.
Which is a 'modern' setting in opposition to the fantasy settings you were naming as examples. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about again.

>Like make it not shit.
Which means very little when it comes from a moron. How do you know the games are shit and it's not your retard nature that makes you unable to appreciate what they have to offer?

>The systems aren't even interesting
Again, meaningless adjectives as they refer to your own inferior interests rather than something objectively measurable.

>your bog standard weebshit animu girl jrpgs have combat systems with more depth
Complete nonsense. In terms of actual tactical depth most CRPGs involve a lot more options and this on the other hand is a measurable fact. The majority of JRPGs are tactically fairly uninvolved and offer few meaningful options to the player.

>>377336975
>>377337396
silly anons, he wasn't talking about the most OVERRATED games.

>>377339392
I just want something that's not boring. Fantasy, cyberpunk - it's old shit. Old rehashed tropes. Old. Old. Old. It's like, hey, you liked BG2? here's POE. hey,you liked fallout? Here's Wasteland. hey, you liked Shadowrun? Here's more shadowrun, hey,you liked torment, here's torment. Fuck that shit, it's pandering to aging nerds, no creativity.

>>377339513
go back to codex nigger.

>>377323957
Depends. If by relevant you mean huge finacial success, so no. Never.

Could this kind of games be profitable? Of course.

>>377338079
>>377338906
What about Age of Decadence?

>>377340706
>Age of Decadence

At the end of day it's still fantasy.

I will never understand why people love RTwP, hated it in BG and hated it in PoE

>>377340882
Not really. It's more Stargate with very few sci-fi elements.

>>377340882
If you were given money and forced to make a cRPG, what setting would you choose then?

My main problem with cRPGs is that they're so full of exposition, and you're never sure what exposition is going to matter in the game.

I don't really care much about how some specific farmer's daughter does something that doesn't impact shit in any way.

Why do crpgs released recently have such terrible art direction? There is literally no excuse for that, character models look bad, gear looks bad, terrain looks bad and so and so.
You'd think that since it's all top view they would have no trouble making detailed shit but no it's horrible. What the fuck is their problem? Look at tyranny, it looks disgusting

>make a game that expects its players to read pages upon pages, literally hundreds of thousands of words, novel-length
>don't fill that space with anything interesting
Yeah, I wonder why they're ded.

If your game has a lot of text in it that text needs to be worth reading. Less pulp fantasy and more Count of Monte Cristo and you might see people give a shit.

>>377323957
pillars was a fantastic game tho. i give it an 89%

>>377341117
are you complaining about a low budget for graphical shit, or are you complaining about art direction

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>>377338079
>Give me an isometric crpg in a modern setting
Been there.

>>377341296
look how stupid you are

real time with pausing is a garbage combat system
just make it turn based and it wont be unbearable to play
divinity is a recent example of a crpg with great combat

>>377341376
Are you baiting or just retarded?

>>377341486
>is a garbage combat system
Says you.

>>377327974
If I enjoyed Tyranny would I enjoy Torment? I saw it was recommended and on sale, but I was apprehensive about buying it from the mixed reviews.

>>377341265
Mainly art direction. And when it comes to graphics my point still stands. Look at arcanum or fallout 1/2, they do look better and more detailed than turanny for instance. I'm not a graphic whore but I don't get how games released in 2016/2017 don't look better. I don't think nostalgia is at play here

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>>377340985
If I were given money I'd make a crpg about a rock band. Yes, a rock band. Companions are musicians. You level up their skills. There's no traditional combat, you just play gigs, rehearsals and so on.

I'd do something in urban fantasy genre, it's so big right now - think, shadowhunters, Buffy etc.

I'd make a crpg set in a hood, where you run a gang with yo homies and sell crack 'cause why the fuck not.

I'd make a crpg about trying to build shit - rockets, machines whatever, 15 to 20 hours, you lead a group of scientists and engineers.

There's so much shit you can do in that genre but no, everybody just makes boring trash.

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>>377323957
Define relevancy?

You can play those games right now and they're still good.

>>377341873
You need to check out "No Truce With The Furies"

>>377341873
Wow an idea guy. HIRED. We had a janitor post vacant

>>377323957
Gee, maybe someone else should make them? Divinity Original Sin is loved. Underrail was a masterpiece. Shadownrun Dragonfall is great.

Torment, Wasteland, Tranny etc. meanwhile are garbage

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>>377333096
Wasteland 2 has 0 replay value

I do a yearly replay of Fallout 2 - there's basically 0 worthwhile content in WL2 to replay through

>>377341867
they really don't

>>377342084
Well, how about they fucking release it?!

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>>377341867
Actually making good art and writing a good story is surprisingly HARD.

Some games have SOUL most do not.

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>>377333409
There's no need to overexplain a basic bitch setting like PoE

It's like explaining in your Tolkein knock off setting why elves hate dwarfs and vice versa - WE GET IT.

>>377342320
Late 2017 apparently. It's a game that you might like.

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>>377324082
you helped him don't you /v/?

>>377342186
I've not replayed it but it feels like you're wrong. it's full of shit about who controls what settlement and who you side with

>>377323957
Tyranny didn't sell because it was too busy smelling it's own lore as if it was the greatest thing ever written.

Fuck those writters/GMs

>>377342269
Temple of Elemental Evil from 2003 has better graphics than any of those kickstarter games.

>>377323957
relevant to who?

not everyone likes fps or whatevver bullshit is popular.

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>>377342269
Literally nothing looks as good as this in Wasteland 2, PoE, Underrail, etc

>>377338253
Pros:
Setting similar to Cook's Black Company.
Branching storyline. Not just 3 different outcomes for the same quest. Think of Witcher 2 or Age of Decadence level.
Innovative magic system.
Hyperlinks in dialogues. Less lore dump, some unique features like telepathy or sinestesia,

Cons.
Fucking cliifhanger in the end.
More simplistic combat system compared to PoE.
Some minor SJW stuff. Espesially one of the companions.

Overall I liked Tyranny, but fuck that ending.

>>377342269
So tell me. Do you honestly believe tyranny's character models look good? Where you ever impressed by the architecture or terrain?

>>377334956
>>>/reddit/

>>377342484
no it doesn't

gonna play planescape torment for the first time

Original version or enhanced?

>>377342447
You mean like walking through that giant bullshit area between the railyard natives? Or those guys on the mountain?

Except for bad combat I can't avoid (like I can avoid it in Fallout 2), nothing about WL2 makes me want to replay it.

>>377338906
>Persona games do modern day setting. The World Ends with You is modern setting. isometric crpgs don't

fuck off weeb, you aren't welcome here

>>377342550
It does. For one, it has better animations. You even played that new Torment? The animations are are godawful.

>>377342703
>nothing about WL2 makes me want to replay it

that isn't the same as it not having any replay value

>>377342624
enhanced

>>377342713
fuck off brain damaged codexian

>>377342771
Except I replayed it to see AG Center, and it was a total bullshit dungeon thing compared to High Water, and I dropped it then.

>>377324481
>Divinity OS also had 0 marketing but sold like hotcakes.

Because of KS hype and the fact it's probably the only one of these CRPGs that's actually built with modern sensibilities in mind and not pandering to old IE fanboys. Paradox threw Tyranny under the bus marketing-wise and then wondered why it didn't sell.

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>>377323957

>this type of gameplay doesn't work today

>aka I don't like this gameplay so you shouldn't either

Why does anyone take these people seriously?

>>377331659
Yeah that looks playable and fun.

arcanum is a fun crpg

>>377342871
so you actually have no idea then. guess I'll disregard your post along with most of the others in this thread

>>377342971
>tfw running Arcanum as a dumb half-ogre that understands nothing other than picking up and throwing 500 weight stones and occasionally loading back after crushing one of your companions on accident with the stone

>>377335296
>>377329167
>>377328350
reccomnend me some games plsssszzzszsz

>>377324713
>>377324780
>>377325182
>>377334475
Technically, Fallout 1 and 2 aren't isometric.

>>377343236
pillar of eternity. I'd give a solid 7-8 now with the patches. WM1-2 did a lot of good.

>>377343223
i played a throwing mage my first run, the game became so trivial so quickly, and once i got tempus fugis i was unkillable
definitely want to do a retard ME SMASH ogre

>>377335515
Deluxe bait.

>>377343046
You are a little faggot. WL2 has 0 replay value - get over it.

>>377341770
Other anon here. It's more like visual novel, there is very little combat encounters and most of them could be avoided. Setting is really unique and strange, and sometime game goes overboard with strangeness. Companions are pretty bland, unfortunately. Basically it's Dying Earth the Game. I really like Vance and Wolfe, so new Torment is definitely right my alley.

I'd say give it a try.

>>377343620
it's ok if you don't like the game, you can just say so

>>377341486
yes because waiting for skeleton #314 to move, do an attack animation, move again, and then waiting for skeleton #315 to do the same is so much fun.

>>377342032
Torment aged like milk.

>>377343804
That's the worst part though - I did like it for that one play through

But on my second play through, I realised with the way they structured the game with the plot - unlike FO2, there was basically 0 ways to play it in a new way by going to different areas.

>>377344030
That's what the Enhanced Edition is for

>>377341873
>but no, everybody just makes boring trash
Avellone tried to pitch The Wire crpg, but to no avail. It's more like nobody want to fund something new.

Also, I'd say for all its faults new Torment had new and original setting, Too bad game flopped so hard.

>>377343620
wasteland 2 doesnt even have first play value
i barely made it to california before i had to just stop, it was so mediocre

>>377330103
>everliving hist
Skyrim 2: Black Marsh confirmed

>>377344057
>wanting to pay for and play the "What can change the gender of a man" edition

>>377342518
>Hit in crotch
>Head explodes
>Shifts 90 degrees so we can see the gore instead of having it affect him in whatever angle he's facing
This looks incredible

>>377344382
They didn't touch the story or NPCs at all