What exactly is it that makes the Souls fanbase so extremely

pvp
(timed) exclusivity
prepare to die memes

yep that's it

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>>376994580
Souls is the video game equivalent of this.

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Soulsfaggots refusal to try more niche games annoys me. Everything either "looks weird" or is "weebshit".

>>376994580
still a better fandom than Undertale

>>376995184
>game has a stamina bar
Or is a Souls rip off.

>>376995086
This.

People think just because they completed babby's first action game they're suddenly hardcore and their opinion matters. What they don't realise is just how easy these games are when you use everything handed to you.

Also the PvP community is full of insecure shitheads too scared to play a real competitive game instead.

PREPARE TO DIE tagline and all those top 10 hardest games videos featuring dark souls

>>376994580
Nailed it.

Souls figured out you need a stamina meter to keep retards from button mashing.

Suddenly every single dumbass figured out that thinking about what you're actually doing makes the combat a lot more fun.

>>376994580
At least they're willing to reject some games like DaS sequels, unlike the hopeless MonHun addicts.

>>376996520
>Reject DaS sequels.

Not really, Das2 apologists are already coming out of the woodwork.

I love the games, but they have all the criteria for weapons grade shitposting.

> enough games in the series (and with enough differences) that ranking them is a garunteed way to get replies and piss someone off
> 2/5 are exclusive, brings the entire console war bullshit with it
> pvp
> specifically unbalanced PVP that isn't a main focus of game design but people take it deadly seriously
> "hardcore" stigma, people get superiority complexes for finishing them
> people who actually have trouble get called shit and shown videos of someone beating the boss without getting hit, not even using the dodge button as proof that they suck
> vague storytelling encourages people to get either angry about vagueness or proclaim it genius. Fights ensure.

there's a reason Souls has consistantly been discussed on /v/, it offers endless amounts of arguments.

>>376997649
no idea what you're talking about
pvp is very balanced

>>376997751
>poise
>backstabbing
>magic
>the "tryhard" weapons
Ironically the most balanced souls game was ds1 only because everything was countered by bs

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>>376994580
>Sort of like that guy who thinks everyone else has shit taste in music because he listens to Radiohead

>>376997907
tell me, /v/ermin
how do you counter unlocked fury ghost strikes with bs
enlighten me

poise is a great mechanic
magic is fine, most overkill spells need 45 dex to work on a high level unless you're just spamming desync hcsm
every weapon has a counter aside from cb which needs an armor swap counter
backstabbing only gatekeeps pvp, a fight between 2 good players in sneaking in safe hits at safe distances while avoiding bs checks unless you're at the forest, which tosses everything out the window

I've been a fan for From Soft games since 2002 and every soulsborne thread has some awful misinformation or dumb shit the fanbase keeps pushing. It's fucking infuriating.

>>376998949
What's the Amnesiac of video games?

>>376999215
Amnesia

>>376994739
/thread

>>376999021
Thanks anon, added to my copypasta folder.

>>376998949
>Bloodborne is the Kid A of Souls.

Accurate.

>>376998949
>Kid A
>Best album in the discography for some
>inaccessible for others
Sounds about right

>>376994580
Impressive how this was posted over on /a/ with Kyoani and it also worked

It's the PC fanbase. Considering most of /v/ is newfags and bandwagon dick lickers, they don't remember what it was like before all the PCshitters came in screaming/spamming/memeing LEL GIT GUD LE PRAISE DA SUN all day long.

Demons Souls and Dark Souls threads were typically good at the very least, and were overall great threads were people were helpful and nice overall; with the occasional memery or rudeness. Then when beggars finally got the game on PC all they did was ruin the fanbase and have continued to do so for every game after.

>>376999664
Then there's this retard.

Because /v/ liked the series, and it got popular. That right there is a recipe for shitposting disaster.

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>>376999664
t. still mad

People keep discussing souls games even though I hate them so they have a cancerous fanbase.

>>376999764
Prove me wrong faggot. I've been here for almost 9 or 10 years, pathetic, I know, but it's the truth.

Demons Souls threads were pretty calm, with helpful individuals with good info about the game, and they had fun in their community. Dark Souls threads (when the game was only on console) were pretty equal to that of DS threads. Helpful, funny, etc.

Then the game came out on PC and all people did was bitch fucking endlessly, over and over. How bad the game is, how bad they are at the game, how they can't figure out anything, how annoying the bosses are, memes as unfunny and as endless as the eye could see, whining about framerate and graphics, etc, etc, etc.

Some of the things (like wanting 60fps and higher res/etc) were fine to complain about, because a better gameplay experience is always a good thing. But the amount of bullshit the PC community brought to the Souls community overall has done nothing but tarnish it forever.

>>376999971
you are that guy who'd throw a bitch fit every time someone talks about your favorite niche band that got popular aren't you

>>376999971
Not trying to take sides here, but I did notice something similar happened when Bayonetta and Automata got ported to PC

>>377000141
The music I listen to is either: already regularly popular among everyone, hipster trash that no one but me likes, or video game music.

So no, I couldn't really give a shit. But I do give a shit about how worthless PC communities are. All they do is bitch, endlessly, about anything and everything, no matter what it is. PC communities are pure cancer, and always have been, always will be.

>>376999971
99.999% of the "funnay calm" shit was just waifu shit, people abusing the shit pvp meta of DeS, memeing about how hard it was, and YOU SERIOUSLY THINK THE PRAISE THE SUN MEME STARTED WITH PC?

>>376997649
This. It leads to faggots like
>>376999664
And never ever memers

>>376999664
It happens when every fan base expands.

I miss those original Demon's Souls threads.

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>>376999971
Yes anon, all of those things totally happened and console players on /v/ are a pinnacle of civil discussion.
Unless it's an exclusive, then they'll make sure to point out in every thread that your game is shit and trash.

Its people that think the games are above criticism
i understand that git gud is a necessary evil when pussies say the game is too hard, but there are real flaws in the game design that have been pointed out before

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>PC players started the git gud meme
>PC players started the hardcore game meme

everytime

>>376998949
Looks like "all i need" is dark aouls and bloodborne

>>376999664
>It's the PC fanbase.
No it's you.

You had fucking years to acclimate yourselves to their introduction but instead you catalyse and antagonise them instead. You are now equally as stupid as you proclaim they are.

>>377000618
>Demon's Souls
>Having anything to do with "gitgud"

Demon's Souls threads were helpful as fuck whenever someone asked. I wish I still had those boss guide images some drawfag made.

>>376996206
>Suddenly every single dumbass figured out that thinking about what you're actually doing makes the combat a lot more fun.

But mashing buttons in Bayonetta is the most fun

>>377000618
Souls games before PC: "Damn guys, this boss is pretty hard. Any ideas?" "Alright man, maybe try and upgrade your gear, or go somewhere else in the level, or just keep trying."

Souls games after PC: "Damn guys, this boss is pretty hard. Any ideas?" "LOL GIT GUD" "HEHEE GET GOOD GUY" "UR SHIT MAYBE PLAY DA GAME GIT GUD LELLZ" etc

Kill yourselves

The Souls community isn't cancerous, it's /v/ that is cancerous and toxic.

>>377001221
t. proofless guy

Can we atleast agree that DS2 fans like myself are the least worse fanbase ? People always shit on the game for no reason

>>376996997
Fuck off Matthew

>>376994580
Outside of pvp people, who are universally faggots in all games and dumb shits like you, it's not actually cancerous.

>>377001221
You're missing the hundreds of threads whining about Xbox getting Dark Souls and how it will be casualized because of it

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>>377001280
You're right but we'll never acknowledge that as a community

>>376997649
This

>>377001221
You seem to be confused, git gud meme started being a thing about a year after PC release and also when Souls were starting to stop being an obscure weeb game. It was bound to happen, PC version maybe didn't help, but wasn't that much o a factor.

>>376994580

As someone who never really liked the gameplay on account of it being tedious punishment over brutal punishment and limited in options that limits picking a playstyle that isn't Sonic The Hedgehog and the Black Knight, and the multiplayer may as well not exist, just want to say:

The board game is hella legit yo, the only problem it really has is it only covers Burg/Funhouse/AnRo and LowWall/Sanc/HighWall for a campaign due to limited number of bosses.
If you enjoy co-op in the game proper, the board game is really good. For comparison, if ANYONE goes down you all go back to bonfire, instead of it being phantoms, like a proper - hard - RPG. Also the enemy get more aggressive the more players there are (except when you're the only guy, then you take all the attacks and get overwhelmed that way).

The only negative with it is the rulebook was edited so fucking badly - it's really confusing and bogged down trying to understand HOW to play, as the book is written on a category and definition pattern, instead of a flowchart pattern that leads you through a typical turn/game loop. You'll find things like "how many souls did we get?" and "How can I use my Estus?" in completely separate sections of the book when you need it.

>>376994580

I immediately thought of Radiohead before I even got to the end. wew

>>376995184

To be fair, a lot of games have fucking awful art. Part of the Souls appeal is the world being compelling due to its great art. Similar to classic metroidvanias.

>>376994580
No, it's just these games are too good in modern vidya industry. Well except for ds2 ofc.

>>376994580
You look for answers from without, but the truth lies within. You are the cancer. It was always you.

>>377002107
Yeah the board game was pretty fun.

Did you ever feel like Herald was useful? We felt that his stat scaling was awful, and we found barely any decent miracles.

Also, looking forward to new characters they're releasing, there's a pretty conspicuous gap where the INT characters should be.

>>376998949
Shit list. From have yet to make anything as polished as Kid A, AMSP or Ok Computer.

Dark Souls 2 is Coldplay.

>>377000247
He's got selective attention. He only remembers what he wants to remember.

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I think the main reason is that beating them is seen as some kind of badge of honour, but in reality the games aren't that hard. They're all pretty challenging with some insane difficulty spikes at parts, but there's not a single game in the series that can't be brute forced by even the most un-skilled player eventually. Summons in particular make the game trivial as fuck, and as somebody who helps out on boss fights for fun, I can tell you a LOT of people summon for help. In any of these games, I can put a summon sign outside almost any fog door at any time of the day, and I'll normally be summoned pretty quickly. For the record, I don't think summoning is a bad thing, in fact some bosses are way more fun co-op, but yeah, you can't deny every boss is made significantly easier with them, except like Gaping Dragon.

So what happens is everybody eventually beats the game, gets a massive superiority complex, and starts berating anybody who has trouble with it to fit in and appear skilled. As a result, 75% of discussion on the game is centred around people calling eachother scrubs You know most of these people probably used a guide on their first playthrough, cheesed tough encounters by abusing the AI, used OP weapons like the Drakesword, and summoned on bosses they couldn't beat solo. And that's fine if that's how they want to play the game, but game is very easy if you do all these things, but ultimately you still beat the game if you did them so you get to wear le epic badge of honour and start telling people to git gud.

It only got worse when so many installments came out, each with different strengths and weaknesses, so this just divided the already hostile fanbase. Now it's not just "git gud", but "git gud and stop playing installment I don't like"

Mustards getting exposed for thr shitters they are

A protip if you want a prove how much the pc community ruined the franchise

Look up atrifical difficulty an google trends and you will see the sudden increase on google search few days after the game launched on Pc
I'm not even kidding

>>377002928
>double line breaks
Hello /r/gaming!

>>377003481
Explain this "reddit spacing" meme.

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>>376994580
>What exactly is it that makes the Souls fanbase so extremely cancerous?

Go and choke on a dick, the real cancer are exactly the anti-souls drones like you

For every shitposting soulsfag there are 10 anti-souls drones circlejerking the board about how cancerous souls fans are for loving an objectively great game.

>>377002438

Haven't played with a Herald, a four man group broke up because of complaints on how long it was taking to understand the rules, so we did Bloodborne (which I honestly found boring as fuck since A) I never played it and B) it was pretty much all luck based with so many status quo cards).
Played with Assassin and Knight for a practice at setting it up and encounters, beat Gargoyle solo as Warrior.

Managed to pull through without using a bonfire because I lucked out and pulled out both a Faith armour that I leveled for, and Heal which I already had the stats to use. It's super potent.
Thinking about it at best guess, Assassin can both be Dexfag or Int since his is the highest, while Herald and Knight you'd want to pick last in a party. Knight not having ANY dodge dice AND shit resist is ridiculous, especially since fucking CROSSBOWS ARE MAGIC apparently and he doesn't do a lot otherwise.

That said, we did fuck up the Knight by not understanding Aggro and thought it was pretty unfair seeing a character start with TWO turns of getting beat on. Turns out it's ideal not to put aggro on the guy with first turn token, but that means solo play Knight is still pretty bad.

(ironic since I tried to do DaS with Knight on PC and got utterly fed up with it because it just wasn't any good)

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>>377004125
>Why is the Dark Souls fanbase so terrible?
>GO CHOKE ON A DICK AND KILL YOURSELF THEY'RE OBJECTIVELY GREAT GAMES.

>>377002107
you are literally too stupid to make the game fun

DaS(1) is the closest thing that comes to a 3d Castlevania Sotn. There is a huge arsenal of options to deal with anything that crosses your path. You only doing r1 and dodge and dying when it doesnt't work just shows that you are too simple minded to do anything if the game doesn't hold your hand to do it.

whether intentional or not, the souls series seems reactionary in its design philosophy to modern games (which souls fans hate), so any time you criticize anything in souls, to them you might as well be campaigning to make every game shit

I've found the "git gud" "praise the sun" faggots are basically just desperate apologists trying to advocate for the series being better than uncharted, skyrim, halo, etc. they're pathetic retards who see the introduction of nuance or critical thinking as a threat or underhanded jewish tactic to ruin the series

>>377000234
>Bitch in a thread about community bitching all the time
Really maekes mey nuggets pounder.....

>>377004536
We have these shitty threads every fucking day, it's becoming ridiculous

Like you people are seriously this fucking delusioned? The amount of souls hater shitposters way outweights any actual soulsfag shitposting ten times. I don't even know where do you people come from, what fanbase are you?

>>376995384
I bet you think you're a real video game expert

>>377004538

>You only doing r1 and dodge and dying when it doesnt't work

When does it ever not work?
And I was playing Knight on PC, so it was fat rolls only. But the attack animations are wank with anything that you can use instead like anything ranged or polearms. I played Pyro first on PS3 and found it decent fun because it was easy to just nuke shit, but quit because the load times were atrocious, and then bought it on PC.

Taking away crutch magic (which you don't even realise diving in as magic, normally you'd expect it to be more difficult with the squishy mage stereotype) shows it's mostly just a slog travelling through mostly tedious and relatively simple encounters just to get to a boss that takes practice and a little grinding to beat repeatedly.

That game isn't that good if you want depth, if you can just shut your mind off and have more time to waste on Souls than anything else (which is not possible unless you're in a shit position, doodling is much more cathartic) then you might beat it before quitting. Now I lost my GFWL copy I'll never be able to just break it with cheese just to get it off my backlog, to make the slog utterly irrelevant so I can focus on just the bosses.

The board game really is superior just for something that focuses on the common encounters without making it one mindless flowchart with fucked pacing.

>>376995184
Tell me a game and i will try it, I only have a pc.

>>377005064
>when does it not work
that's like going through a metrovania game with using the one basic attack +dodging. Ofc you can do it but why the fuck would you make your gameplay needlessly monotonous?

>The board game really is superior
you seriously don't see through how much detail and shit was put into the combat aspects if you compare it to other rpgs.

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It's fanbase is mostly casuals that thinks finishing the game while reading wikis and summoning other players for bosses makes them mlg pro gamers while watching jewtube videos about the back story of an optional boss that gathered from item descriptions makes them experts on vidya story design. Add lore videos to those and you get some pseudo-intellectual "discussion" about why some random item is equipped by an npc and whether he was a member of an ancient cult while in reality it was never supposed to be datamined and was put by an intern in a hurry to make sure he got home early to play idol master or some shit.
Of course cancer doubles in game since it's "supporting eachothers" counter part was balanced by "invading eachothers" that was meant to be fucking others progress and griefing but since casual shitters can't handle this and can't use their brains to find which weapon is better or fun to use you end up with metafaggotry where everyone copies thier favorite mlg pro youtubers and checking every patch note on wiki. So you now end up with a laggy multiplayer where everyone running around in a copy paste build that was made on mugenmonkey while screeching memes and shit like "1v1 no estus feggit".
I'm not even talk about retarded memes or console war shitposting.
I honestly wish the games were not marketed as hardcore game for hardcore gamers, went multiplat from the start and it never had multiplayer from the start. It's just too much cancer gathered for a game series.

>>377001221
This is why I stopped going to dsg, though whether or not PC is responsible I don't know.

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>>376994580
Souls fanbase are legit the best fanbase here. They always discuss the game they never shit up other threads and the threads are probably the best thread we have here.

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>>376998949
very nice

>>377001584
thats porn right?

>>376995384
"Real" "competitive" "game"

>>376995086
this demographic suits 4chan in general at least the boards i frequent

>I play real niche action/fighting games for real niche action/fighting game gamers
-This thread

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>>377005064
you fucks don't know how to have fun with a game anymore. You forgot that this is supposed to be a fantasy adventure /role playing game, and not some competetive shit that you have to finish as quickly and "professionally" as possible.

When I did my first blind das playthrough I spent shittons of time just testing and fooling around with all the new weapons and movesets, spells/pyromancies/miracles/special attacks, managing my consumables and stats, acquiring the really cool looking armors and just getting to know the interesting enemy behaviours. There was just so fucking much detail put into these things compared other rpgs/adventure games.

Of corse you can finish the game just with the starting weapon and armor and you can also probably do it much quicker and more "efficent" than just trying out all the shit the game offers but that's not how the game was supposed to be played. Most people here lik you complaining about the game seem like they only wanted to do a playthrough as quickly and efficently as possible just so they can say they finished the game.

>>376994580
The community was fine when demon souls and dark souls released. Wasn't too serious and Eveyone just wanted to talk about bosses/lore/jank pvp. The beginning of the end was when the "git gud" meme started and the franchise went to pc. Take that as you will

>>377008070
this
i remember everything was fine until pcbros got in the mix.

>>377007661

You don't seem to understand.
DaS one teaches you that doesn't exist. You go "oh sweet <class>" and then you get
>No gear
>No moves
>That weapon you like has shit animations
>That weapon you like with good animations has shit stats
>HEALTHSPONGES
>Stamina is massively more effective spent on a single strike and acting as your health bar through dodges
>XP CURVES
etc.

If you want to start a souls game and find what is /fun/ for you, that's going to be about 10 false starts in character gen and looking it up anyway to find your preferred class doesn't exist/work.

And then if you just want to take whatever works out of what's left and just play the game for the content, you get shit non-boss encounters that just test your patience and a boss that can nuke you with one dodgy hitbox. And then you overcome that for a 12 hour game if you don't grind.
And then the only thing left is to go all parry god mode or twink.

Dropped 1 because of getting bored slowly going through normal encounters using armour and shields only to fight a boss that will overwhelm that in one or two shots (with me just giving up once I reached Salt and Pepper's fog wall because I figured that's enough promising to myself "just this next bit").
Dropped 2 because everything was mindlessly easy, until Smelter Demon, then quit because I had spent about what, 10 hours and yet to find a hook? Fuck off.
Dropped 3 because I decided to get into the multiplayer, only to find it made even worse. Refunded and pirated it for solo, only to drop somewhere around the crows from finding other games to play.

It's hard to have fun with a game when there is no fun to be found.

>>377008070
>>377008216
people who get triggered by the git gud meme completely miss it's point

It was made in response to all the "artificial difficulty" complaints the new playerbase made when it was clear that they've just made obvious mistakes.

It's purpose is exactly to just trigger them even more because they were never actually seeking help but just wanted to complain about how "unfair" the game is.

Ofc people started overusing it but that's a different story.

>>377001221
It's the same thing with Nier threads.
Never trust PC to be civil about anything once they get something. They act like elitist faggots when they are the problem with the site, and at the same time beg the consoles for their games and profess to always loving them or some bullshit. It's all a dick waving contest to them, and when they do get something they take the faggotry to the greatest possible extreme. Thanks for ruining a series I love, faggots. I hope it was worth all of the I WANNA SNIFF 2B'S BUMHOLE THIS CANNOT CONTINUE FUCK CONSOLEFAGS nonsense.

I can't wait for Vanquish to come out to see another game ruined by them.

>>377008723
Dumb phone poster

>>377008723

Nier was ruined by having 9s the protagonist instead of 2b as was marketed though. It deserved the endless shitposts.

Also, commander white is my waifu.

>>377002840
But it feels SO GOOD when you FINALLY overcome that TOUGH BUT FAIR™ boss in this EXPERTLY CRAFTED EXPERIENCE.

Seriously, every god damn point of praise about the series boils down to the same phrases, completely excusing its laborious combat and shoddy performance. I mean people call Bloodborne this visual masterpiece but it can't even animate NPC mouth movement for fuck sake I mean how fuck lazy are From anyway?

It's as if people are just terrified of criticising the game at all or even hinting that the combat and performance aren't all that great.

>>377008672
I'm not made about git gud. It just is a conversation killer. When people have trouble with any boss. It wasn't uncommon for them to ask for help on forums. Pre-"git gud" souls fans were pretty helpful and it was fun to see other players strategies. Now all we get it a bunch of fedora memers screaming git gud

>>377006493
What will Vaati do now that he can't sit on his fat arse all day long making lore videos and Jewing out his fans on Patreon?

>>377009046

Don't forget this shit infects literally every gaming community to date.
Quake Champions is unbalanced and shitty? "lmao git gud"
SS13 might have a nice feature request on github? "hue git gud"
It's pure cancer on top of being a non-answer, unless it ends "there really isn't anything you can do differently".

>>377008308
What games do you even like

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>mustards ITT trying to deny that they are a cancer to videogame communities
>meanwhile Bloodborne and Nioh threads on /vg/ and /v/ are still very civil, interesting and helpful while Souls threads are giant cancerous cespits of dank memes and bitching.
Really activated my almonds

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>>377008308
sorry to say that but you are the perfect example of why the anti-souls group is so cancerous

you sound like the game is a chore to complete without min maxing from the start WHEN you literally one or two shot every avarage enemy with any fucking weapon if you've upgraded them a bit. The game isn't that hard in the first place but min-maxing+looking up guides makes the game trivial, YET you are saying how this game is too easy for you/not hardcore enough when you literally find it too hard to play how it was intended.

over 90% of the weapons and armor is completely viable even if there are a few "op" ones between them. There is shittons of place to use different builds/weapons/spells etc and just make the game feel like the adventure it was supposed to be.

Am I the only one who kinda drops these games after NG+? I don't know but there's simply no replayability to them outside of maybe PVP which gets boring after a couple of hours.

Souls games are great action games but they're terrible RPGs. They're designed first and foremost as a "video game" and its video gamey aspects really show. I know hipsters will come out of the woodwork to call how these games weaves its gameplay into the narrative and call it ludonarrative bullshit but that's what hurts it. Your character is a soulless husk with no personality who only exists to kill things. That's what you fucking do. Everytime I play this, all I ever do is how to kill this certain mob/boss more efficiently but any sort of possible RPing to enterain myself is just so damn hard.

But of course I think that's fine. It fits with the atmopshere and what the game tries to be, but I just don't see myself replaying Souls games compared to say New Vegas or even fucking Skyrim, where I can be a new character every time I play. Even Dragon's Dogma is more RP friendly, though you have to use your imagination a lot more.

>>376994580
The PC crowd.

>>377009682
The problem isnt with pc. Its games being multiplat. Pc exclusive games have some of the most civil discussions.

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>>376997649
This sums it up perfectly.

>>376999806
Exactly. Look at Minecraft and also look at my post ending with 0

>>376997649
Spot on

>>377009697
Dark souls is less about roleplaying and more about going through the game with different builds and weapons. The game is more mechanically sensitive than rpgs, because many of these builds focus on getting that one spell or weapon to make it effective rather than stats. It also takes much less time to complete these builds than your average rpg.

>>376997649
would rate higher if you'd seen what the souls fanbase was like pre DSII on /v/. Shit was extremely cancerous.

>>376994580
marketing and popularity
if you were here at the time of Demon's Souls' release you would notice that the game just had this nice little group of people who liked the game and a few assholes
also, /v/ was a little bit better but the internet was starting to become normie central at that time too, with Facebook really taking off
2009... seems so long ago...

anyway, the point is the playerbase changed at some point and I believe it was when Dark Souls picked up in popularity because of it being THE HARDEST GAME EVER

Don't get me wrong, and I'm not starting a Demon's > Dark debate, I love Dark Souls myself
The progression and design is smart... you can either get by with good gear, or skill and it appeals to all sorts of players

Just goes to show, people and popularity ruin things
Shame...

>>377010413
Thanks to the introduction of our PCfriends of course. Right when mustard joined is when the term "artificial difficulty" became vogue on /v/, pure coincidence? I think not.

>>376994580
The same shit that makes this whole website cancerous:
They become insufferably elitist thinking they're part of a "secret group" / beat a "hard game".

>>377009686

Ignoring the fact there's gear for one playstyle every THIRD of the way through the game, and that's it.
Ignoring the fact one-two hitting is tedious and a chore, especially with so little reward, your best choice is often to just rush through to the boss which itself is also tedious as fuck, especially in dodgy places like Blight.

>Find it too hard to play how it was intended
Bored out your fucking mind? I was going to put the effort into making a particular role I picked work, but it's straight up not viable when it costs you many more attempts at clearing one section when a specific dodge + one strong hit build is massively more effective than anything else, in all the games.
There are probably a hundred different games that do Dark Souls better than any Souls game. Each game has it's own massive failings. There really is nothing you can say in defense other than "if you ignore what makes it mediocre, it's great!".

>>377009648

Pretty much struggling to find any but in general the games I enjoy most at the moment, asides from tabletop stuff with friends, include Squad, Quake/Tribes if they weren't (currently) dead; thinking something closer to RPGs I enjoyed System Shock 2 and Deus Ex, games like those a lot. Inventory management, being locked into certain skills, non-combat mechanics are good. If there's a way to co-op it has to be with little to no leveling range to avoid imbalanced encounters - something Souls gets wrong with effectively infinite level cap.

That's just the sort of thing really with Souls, it's incredibly unrefined. There's no limits to leveling or grinding to the point it's impossible to balance, yet they had a go at focusing on multiplayer instead of just working on the campaign more (as evident by a lot of cutting room stuff).

Lastly, if I had to make an RPG, I would focus on making sure there was open-ended level design - not open-world, just non-linear approaches, like Deus Ex compounds. (char limit 2k)

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>>377009697
>Your character is a soulless husk with no personality who only exists to kill things

that's just not true tho. Silent protagonists have personalities based on their acts. You are a tragic hero who canonically dies a thousand times to achive his goal, which is finding the cure for the curse but also mainly does it because it's the only thing left for him to do in this dying world.

The games also have some sweet replayability, there are plenty of secrets, different npc interactions and different builds to try, but I aggree with you that I also don't see the point in taking the same character into ng+ (except in ds2 where the enemy placement actually changed).

>>377009181
He will probably waste all his shekels on crack and whores while squeezing every last bit left from "lore" and if by the time FROM doesn't release a spiritual sequel he will kill himself.

>>376994580
Became too popular, which in turn made people (especially video game journalists) compare it too other games, saying that dark souls is what other games should learn from.

>>377010748
Sounds like you just like rpgs. Souls is more of an action game than rpg, but it has enough of both elements that rpg and action game purists like to take a dump on it. The elitist attitude comes from people that like both and find souls to be a prrfect mixture of the two and why they cant comprehend people hating it.

>>377010748
>Ignoring the fact one-two hitting is tedious and a chore, especially with so little reward, your best choice is often to just rush through to the boss which itself is also tedious as fuck

Lol, why the hell do you even play video games?
Seriously tell me, which games do you like?

You are the best example to show how cancerous the anti souls drones are: you don't know jackshit about the game but think you do because you've looked up some guide with a min maxing build and tried to doe exactly what that told you.

>>377011216

If it's an action game, I'd much rather play DMC or MGR again. It's so slow and stiff, with so few moves available per weapon I refuse to call it an action game. Combine it with the fact it has a massive fetish for number crunching and nothing changes but how long it takes to repeatedly flowchart a boss to death, it may as well be turn based.

So if it's neither RPG or action game, what is it? Bejewelled clone?
Oh right, I forgot to mention: I also play Monster Hunter. So if there needs to be a slow action game/RPG but not quite either, Monhun is a much better alternative I would recommend.

>>377011361

>Lol, why the hell do you even play video games?
To have fun in whatever time you can spend, to get the most out of it in the few hours you have not working or socialising.
Why, do you do nothing but sit around and play games all time like it's a truly worthwhile existence to lead?
I've already listed better alternatives over Souls no matter what genre you label it, there should be zero pointless tedium in all video games.

>inb4 defending tedium
Fucking SS13 is a better tedium management game jesus fuck, get some taste or admit people can dislike Souls games.

>>377011484
I've played all the games you mentioned and still like dark souls as well as those games and I play tabletop shit too, so Im no stranger to rpgs either. Not sure what to tell you then, except that theres a big difference between the combat in all those games, including dark souls. I can tell you that the people I play tabletop with also enjoyed dark souls, so Im not alone on the matter.

>>377011361

Not him but thats the point. Say I wanna rp as some edgelord spell blade who uses dark magic but then realize that most dark spells suck ass and cant kill enemies as efficiently as my +10 greatsword and thats not mentioning how much rings and stat investment just to make it viable. Dark Souls is kinda like Diablo. It punishes you for using non efficient build and becomes fun depending on how easily you kill enemies, except this time its about how you literally git gud progressively at the game instead of relying on new loot to make you stronger. But in the end, it all about getting stronger.

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>>376994580
Also, pvp as it tends to bring out the worst in people due to competition.

>>377011917

I just came to agree with the anon below you saying it's like Diablo, and now it clicks.
Yeah, it's basically a third person Diablo. I also hate that entire genre, but it is a popular one and I just bounce off it as "not my thing".
I guess then if they like Diablolikes I would defer to their own best judgement or someone else's if they asked me, as opposed to if they wondered if it was closer to the games I mentioned.

Just going "well you just AREN'T PLAYING IT RIGHT" is a terrible fucking argument in general, and Diablolikes as a genre are specifically niche because it can be exceptionally dull to those without the required taste.
Then it comes down to marketing, because obviously Diablo isn't that super popular but THIS IS THIRD PERSON, WITH THE ACTIONS AND THE DARKS, GIVE US MONEY WE PORT TO PC OUR FIRST TIME WESTERNERS

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>>376999664
>The Prepare to Die meme was PC

>>377010748
you seriously don't see the problem with your opinion?

>Ignoring the fact one-two hitting is tedious and a chore, especially with so little reward, your best choice is often to just rush through to the boss which itself is also tedious as fuck

that's the exact opposite of tedious you fucktard. Bullet spongy enemies are tedious, killing enemies in 1-2 shots while they still offer some serious threat is not. The enemies also give plenty of reward, especially the bosses.

>gear for one playstyle every THIRD of the way through the game, and that's it.
the fuck are you talking about, you don't HAVE TO follow some people's own personal guide, every equpment is pretty close in efficency just deal with the stats differently and there is shittons of equpment in the game. Why the fuck would you follow a min maxing build so strictly just to gain a +15% efficency, and then blame it on the game that it's boring?

>>377011927
>then realize that most dark spells suck ass and cant kill enemies as efficiently as my +10 greatsword
Why the fuck is that such a game breaking problem when it's not a competetive game?

Like a miracle build is not as strong as someone who's minmaxing dex with a rapier. So what?? The gameplay still remains fun, you still kill enemies with 1-2 hits, and bosses in 10-15. You are literally complaining that you can't chose easy difficulty and have to play the game on normal.

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I mean I'm a very avid souls player but its really fucking annoying when half the community are edgy faggots who use broken meta weapons and have fucking weeb names

>>377012521

>Cos you can kill in few hits, that automatically makes it fast
>If it's fast, it's not tedious
umm, try again sweetie~
You're literally just doing mental gymnastics to make it seem like "YOU JUST DON'T GET IT" when they got it, and it sucks for anyone.
You're jumping between "YOU DON'T NEED GUIDES" and "IF YOU KNEW AND DID RESEARCH YOU WOULD FIND ALTERNATIVES".
You're jumping between "YOU CAN DO EVERYTHING" and "SO WHAT IF YOU CAN'T DO EVERYTHING"

You're a fucking joke

>>377012389
Its kind of like diablo, but not really too. Its got the same kind of story structure and attitude towards lore. But theres not really loot. In fact my first run I beat the game with the weapon I started with, so weapons arent balanced around tiers like in diablo. Its also alot more linear. Diablo is more of a gear check and stats game, with some procedual generation in its levels. Souls is just a patient action game and stats arent nearly as important.

>>376994580

>Is it because it's at the very edge between normalfag and niche taste? Creating a sort of "casual elitist". Sort of like that guy who thinks everyone else has shit taste in music because he listens to Radiohead.

that is accurate as fuck

>>377012950
>stats arent nearly as important.

what?

>>377012521
>Like a miracle build is not as strong as someone who's minmaxing dex with a rapier. So what?? The gameplay still remains fun, you still kill enemies with 1-2 hits

Try this in dark souls 3 without knowing about raw astora's SS. For 75% of the game if you play "normally" you will only have normal lightning spear which does less damage then a swing even at base cleric stats, while your melee weapons are also garbage because you don't get lightning infusions until about 60% through the game.

The only upside to picking cleric and wanting to be a miracles build for 80% of the game is heals. This is fine in a normal RPG but in DaS where it is possible to never take damage due to Invulnerability frames it can basically mean you have 40 points in stat that does nothing for most of the game.

>>377012985
There are elitists in every game and casuals in everygame. It just depends on how your mind is wired and what genres you like, and how seriously you take them. Id say more than half of souls players are just braindead hosts that summon help through the entire game. A very small percentage push the game to its limit and do speedruns and other challenges. But on the other end, Ive known casuals who played dwarffort that couldnt play an action game to save their life and vice versa. This elite games vs casual games is just people trying to one up each others tastes. It means very little.

>>377013087

Read: You can broken sword the game.
Well, yeah, but only because there's tiny roll windows for almost every attack in the game, and parries work on bosses. That isn't going to be a speedrun attempt though.
Which falls back on the "if you find that thing fun" bit which Diablo definitely is. You can reduce Diablo to a spreadsheet with buttons and some may still find enjoyment in that - just less of it without some secondary features like gothic art.
It's not *bad* like that, it certainly fits the description of a game, and it can be complicated, it's just not for everyone, and you can't change that with shouting at them.

>>377013087
Stats arent that important in souls games besides health if you cant dodge. Leveling up your weapon does much more for you for damage than leveling up stats. Its alot easier to do level 1 runs in souls than diablo because of this.

>>377012521

>Like a miracle build is not as strong as someone who's minmaxing dex with a rapier. So what?? The gameplay still remains fun, you still kill enemies with 1-2 hits, and bosses in 10-15.

Because its just tedious. Like for example, you really dig the lucerne and you upgrade that shit and infuse it. But then you realize its not really killing things faster than a black knight glaive. Youre really gimping yourself by using a shit weapon and dying a lot more. Its as stupid as those self imposed challenges where people play the game with their feet to show off but in reality its just not fun.

>>377012785
>Cos you can kill in few hits, that automatically makes it fast. If it's fast, it's not tedious
It's fast and it's still challenging you dipshit. That's the exact opposite of tedious which is slow and unchellenging.

>You're jumping between "YOU DON'T NEED GUIDES" and "IF YOU KNEW AND DID RESEARCH YOU WOULD FIND ALTERNATIVES".
What's the fucking problem with that retard? I'm literally saying that don't look up guides but find out shit in the game yourself, that's how DaS1 was designed and that's why it was fun

>You're jumping between "YOU CAN DO EVERYTHING" and "SO WHAT IF YOU CAN'T DO EVERYTHING"
when the fuck did I said that you liar faggot? I said min-maxing builds are OP while other builds are not, but that doesn't make the others not fun to play, the exact opposite actually, the game was building around your avarage blind playthrough builds.

Holly shit, that's what I'm talking about. People act like souls fans are anything special compared to other game's fans when anti souls fags are literally the worst fucking cancer.

>>377013820

>the game was building around your avarage blind playthrough builds.

Minute of silence everyone for anon's suicide funeral.

>>377013665
Would it be suddenly OK if it was a selectable "difficulty setting" like what shittons of games already have? Like if kthe game acknowledged that chosing "paladin" build is harder difficulty?

OFC it would be suddenly ok because you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

The game won't be unplayable or non-fun because you are making a different build., At fucking worst you are doing 25% less damage. The game becomes harder, but that's the price for role playing as some cleric/paladin.

I'm not saying that total perfect balance wouldn't be better but don't act like all the content the game has is unplayable because a few equpment is stronger and you won't use anything else even if they play, look and feel completely differently.

>>377014449

Yeah because a paladin build is definitetly viable in any DaS. Hope those 60 points in fth were worth it bro. Even a pyro build was a lot morr viable even if. Great chaos fire orb is the only pyromancy spell worth a damn be because every other spell is gimmicky that has either bad tracking or does 200 damage despite pumping an obscene amount into fth and int

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>>377013951
>yeah, I'm right guys, he made a typo so that makes his argument wrong

>>377013665
Your lucerne example is just a higher level weapon being better than a lower level weapon.

>>377014737

This, we didn't even get into the level of content for each type of build e.g. there's a like 50 swords but only about 8 spells for Pyro/Sorc/Cleric?

>>377014806
Honestly didn't even see the typo, now you look even more pathetic.

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>>376994580
>Is it because it's at the very edge between normalfag and niche taste? Creating a sort of "casual elitist".

Yes, and that's exacerbated by the fact that most people came in on the second game in the Souls franchise and feel the need to engage in gatekeeping all the damn time because some people just can't handle the fact that they weren't into a cool thing before everyone else. Not to mention Dark Souls had more of a focus on PvP, which is the quickest way to cancer up a community. Between that and the normiecore 2hard4u marketing riding the coattails of DeS the community couldn't go anywhere but down.