The biggest problem with Undertale is that it was __________too short

No, it was too gay.

>>376953748
That people took it as a relevant point in politics, it should've stayed as just a good game

>>376953748
No. The biggest problem was we don't actually get to "do what people do when they date" with any of them.

>>376954136
And this, too.

>>376953748
What the fuck am I looking at?

>>376953748
it completely plagiarized cave story.

My biggest gripe is that everything between Metaton-EX and Asgore felt like the creator went "Fuck this, I just want to be done with this game."
>Think you're going to the city everybody keeps talking about
>lolno, time for some exposition dumping, and being shunted to the final boss

Its biggest flaw was having no date with Mettaton.

>"good" and bad endings are both utter bollocks
>only a couple of town areas
>shitty lisa

I dunno if making it longer would have helped because it really petered out at the end.

>>376955373
>shitty lisa

to clarify, I'm referring to the autistic Mengele dinosaur, not the other rpg.

>>376955026
How?

>>376955026
>Cave Story has an incredibly simple plot
>Undertale has an incredibly simple plot
>these two simple plots share simple story beats
Wow!

>>376953748
no, that was probably one of its biggest strengths

at least, if you count a strength as something that let the game succeed

>>376955609
Total fucking ripoff!!!

>>376955026
is this about both games having robots, white furry creatures, and being underground or is this something that's actual evidence?

Not really, because it has great replay value which is completely unmatched by anything else I've played.

Characters and events heavily change every time you play based off of what you did last playthrough. I never replay games but I did a Pacifist and Genocide run after my spoiler-free blind run. I would go into specifics but I think it's best enjoyed completely unspoiled. Play it again and you'll be impressed.

Assuming you do a Neutral, Pacifist and Genocide route respectively, you'll be done in somewhere around 20 hours. It's nothing that epic but it's an acceptable length.

Was I the only one who noticed that the instant the game went past the content of the demo, it became just "lol memes and wacky music"

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>>376955756
>Cave Story
>Underground

http://www.strawpoll.me/12966877

>>376955926
Well, it's a floating island, but you're still under the ground of that island.

The biggest problem is how under-utilized the save mechanic was. The game totally wanks itself over remembering small details between sessions, but you can see all the worthwhile content in 2 playthroughs, if you're not retarded. For something that spouts a line like "you've probably heard this hundreds of times by now", it had no replayability to speak of.

>>376956059
...are you sure?

>>376955913
What memes?

>>376956109
Yes.

>>376953748
It's a niche game that got too popular. If that didn't happen, it would have stayed in that sweet spot of good and well appreciated RPGmaker games (even if it was made in gamemaker)

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>>376955913
The game took a pretty shitty turn once you hit Hotland, but everything during and after NEW HOME managed to keep things in line.
Alphys can't fucking carry an entire two sections, even if Mettaton's there.

>>376956236
This.

While playing I kept wondering to myself "why is this so popular? It's great but it feels like something that should be really niche"

I mean that's why I like it, it baffles me everyone loves it so much cuz it feels like something I should be yelling YOU FUCKERS JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND about like all the other games I like.

>>376953748

the biggest problem with undertale was that it's full of problem like shitty puzzle, awful graphics, combat system that would get stale super fast if the area were just slightly bigger and the fact that it has a whole area that is specificaly designed to annoy the player for no reason other than thinking that's a clever idea

but were all supposed to ignore that because it's "le game that pointed out i'm playing a game" which make us super smart critics by praising it

>>376956087
Toby didn't expect the game to become as big as it did at all, so I think he expected the genocide route to be obscure and found only after players exhaust most of the game's possible scenarios.

>>376956450
The main reasons are that it has a lot of humour compared to other niche RPGs which makes it accessible and enjoyable to many people, and that tumblr latched onto it for the very minor homo elements and declared it as the new king of progress gaming.

>>376953748
Hotland was the biggest problem. Every area up until Hotland had a certain magic and mystery to it, but when you get to Hotland it kinda feels on the nose about being just another quirky RPG. New Home saved it though.

>>376956630
Instead the genocide route became LE EBIN MEEM and all the fucking kiddies and normies jumped onto it and now look where we are.

>>376956503
>combat system that would get stale super fast if the area were just slightly bigger
>Combat system is fine, but if this thing changed it wouldn't be
What exactly are you complaining about here?

Also nobody likes Hotland.

>>376955814
>because it has great replay value which is completely unmatched by anything ive ever played
Did you play 2 video games your whole life?

>>376956889
... I liked hotland.

>>376956695
Don't forget about Sans in general, even moreso once his true nature was made apparent in Genocide.
The fucker is probably the only thing keeping Tumblr interested other than "CHARA DINDU NUFFIN" debates.

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What I don't understand is why people skipped Genocide
It has the best fight and piece of soundtrack in it

I mean good on Toby to call people who are too spineless to try it and had to look it up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcoqR9Bwx1Y

>>376953748
Undertale is a rip off of fallout

>>376957030
Oh right, can't forget about le epik sans oh man so cool he's a jokester but he's got a dark side JUST LIKE ME AND MY REDDIT FRIENDS

>>376957054
I was just lazy. Though, I did the Genocide thing for the Red fan character thing...

>>376957004
Me too, everyone seems to hate it, but I genuinely laughed at the Metatton scenes. I do think the game changed its tone a bit there and wasn't a huge fan of the core, though.

>>376957004
No you didn't, you're just not remembering it right.

Honestly though, it would have been fine if Alphys would just fuck off and stop bothering you every two seconds.

>>376956889
Fuck you hotland was baller

>>376957054
The problem with Genocide is that you have to purposely, methodically, murder every encounter in the game.

Now that might work on a thematic level but it's a pain in the fucking ass. Even people who do it tend to just use an exploit that lets them fuck off and do something else while the game plays itself.

>>376953748
There needed to be more hard boss fights
Genocide run is one of the most redeeming parts of the game but none of the fights get as frantic or as fun as those two

>>376955913
Disagree. Snowdin and everything up to the Undyne fight is captivating stuff. Hotland is mostly shit with a couple of Mettaton segments that are great. Once you hit the hotel (Sans' restaurant scene) things pick up and the castle is arguably the best part of the game.

>>376956397
>Hotland
>Shitty

The music saved hotland and DONT YOU FORGET IT

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>>376953748
The biggest problem is that people blew how good of game it really was out of the water. It was good, but fucking hell, it wasn't some spectacular end all be all game. I really wish it didn't explode in popularity that much.

Should have just been a nice game that people appreciated for what it was, not some absolute dogshit game that killed everything or second coming of Tetris. A game you just say, "wow, that was cool" and move on from, like Stardew Valley or some shit, I don't know.

>>376957030
>"CHARA DINDU NUFFIN" debates.
Don't fucking remind me. The worst part is that you can tell people did that mostly to justify making even more cute Chara art.

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>>376957030
I actually think Sans is easily the best written character in the game considering the fact each character other than the main character and Sans are stuck living in only on timeframe when Sans has seen everything.

Sadly people only see him as either the pun man or the bad times man when he actually is lazy and cynical because he's seen it all before so many times.

Flowey comes a close second.

>>376957054
I actually really love the fact that Toby uses Megalovania in all of his osts, but its' just too different from the rest of the game's ost for me to compare. My favorite song is still genocide exclusive, though, Undying's battle theme.

>>376957540
Yeah, it's like I said in >>376956236
It really makes me think twice when I want something obscure I like to become more popular.

>>376957646
He hasn't seen everything, though, he's just aware that no matter what he does, it can all be undone in an instant. That's why he's so depressed and only actually tries to stop you when you're going to become a destroyer of worlds.

>>376956925
What other game has characters react to prior playthroughs like that?

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>>376957646
>>376957863
>Sans has unlimited bad time power
>does nothing to stop Flowey from absorbing all the souls and thus becoming the God of Hyperdeath
Explain that, Toby Hack

>>376954504
What are you talking about? The Undyne Date was perfect.

>>376957949
Sans didn't care. Perhaps he knew that you would sort that out

>>376957863
And that's what I love about him, there are countless endings but only in one can he be bothered to fight you.

Even if you kill his brother, he'll just call you a bastard and leave it be.

Also now that I think about it it's less he knows things will happen but rather he's aware; even in the good routes he'll threaten the player since he knows what they able to do even though he hasn't ((experienced)) it yet, but rather it's bound to happen.

>>376957949
>"You're still struggling with him?"
I think he was pretending he was ignorant to it

>>376957949
He literally doesn't care. Imagine being in a school group project and knowing your partners are perfectly capable of finishing it for an excellent grade without you and that they will still do it no matter what because otherwise they'd get a bad grade.

>>376957646
>Sans has seen everything.
Sans hasn't seen anything, all he knows is that there's an unknown force causing timelines to end, and sooner or later it'll probably affect his one, and there's nothing he can do about it. He doesn't even know that it's you outside of Genocide.

I never played the game, but there's something I never got from the discussions: is it aware that you're controlling the MC or not?

>>376957949
He probably figured Frisk could handle Flowey/Asriel, considering they have to do a Neutral Run to go down Pacifist and he's able to assume something based on looks alone.

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>>376955594
>>376955609
>>376955756
pretty much every little aspect was ripped from cave story.

>>376958630
Like what?

>>376958460
refering to >>376958206 I think it's more he's "aware" more than anything, I think he's seen but doesn't remember it so the whole thing is just a hunch to him.

Hence why I think he threatens the player like so, he wants to play safe, you could say that's why he's also following the player around; to observe them, just in case.

'Course, in Genocide he hightails it and hopes it doesn't get worse.

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>>376958630
>>376958712

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>>376958045
Yes. But still didn't get to do "whatever people do when they date".

>>376958992
Isn't anyone making a lewd VN?

>>376958905
I love this bait. Not only is nothing being compared to each other even as significant as a general possible sprite design choice, but when it comes to their impact on the story, nearly every single character is the OPPOSITE of what you're comparing.

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>>376958992
>implying you know what people do when they date

>>376958905
Oh, my god, please be bait.

>>376958905
>Both games have flowers
>Both games have animals with white fur
>Both games have characters that say the word help
>Both games have characters that grin
>Two actual direct intentional references

Literally the same game, how could I have been so blind?

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>>376959254
>>376959321
>not recognizing Cavebarneyfag

>>376958905
Ebin cherrypicking! Worthy of this (You)

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>>376959198
I somehow doubt there'd be much chemistry between a painfully innocent skeleton and an emotionally retarded child.

>>376958630
Don't say that while posting my baby niko. Yes, many aspects of the game were clearly inspired by Cave Story, (I caught them myself while playing) but there are way more inspirations than just that, like the ACT option being based on SMT's demon negotiation. Also the Mother series.

>>376959413
In fanservice nothing makes sense.

>>376958045
Only because Undyne is perfect

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>>376953748
>no hard mode with different endings
>only 2 real boss fights in genocide

>b-but genocide is supposed to be a shitty experience
Fuck you, Mettaton EX and Asgore with 6 souls could have been great fights.

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I would be okay with an actual hard mode and maybe one or two more areas.

What about a Halloween edition where Varik comes back? Make things come full circle

>>376960045
I want to stuff it in Muffet's tuffet

>>376958476
The game doesn't focus on it that much, but you can assume the MC and yourself are kinda like separate characters in the story, with the MC being a blank slate that you can project anything onto.

>>376956889

the combat system only works because area are so small that you barely get any fight into it,

that's like saying it's okay if you broke a leg because you are a fatso that spends all his time in front of the PC anyway