Serious talk

>>376943465
Those themes weren't even the main point of the fucking game

That was just a cover/setup for taro to tell a character-driven story revolving around 2B / 9S and how they deal with various issues

Pretty similar to evangelion actually. The entire mecha setup was just a tool for hideaki to write a character-driven story about shinji dealing with depression and exspectations

>critics
I can't believe you faggots still worship critics.

>>376943687
>That was just a cover/setup for taro to tell a character-driven story
thats exactly where the story failed though, hell Ending E was better than the entirety of A-D

But he's covering it through the bonus material (lol) so I guess it's alright

>>376943783
I think he means criticism not critics

>>376943931
I think he did a good job with 9S. Side material mainly focuses on developing 2B and Pods more

>>376943783
>That i've read HERE
Read OP better

I didn't like the game because of various reasons from the gameplay to the story, from the characters to the themes, but I can't say its an overly bad thing that the game explores those things.
Its just kind of - there. It doesn't explore them deep enough and it feels like they're there just to fill out some other purpose.

The themes were fine and dandy, but I don't get the praise for their conclusion in ending E. I seriously don't understand why people have such a boner over that ending.

>>376943931
>opinions

9S in C was pretty good

>>376944158
Basically if you use anything vaguely metafictional people will cream over your game and say its "pushing the medium forward"

Having read more than enough PoMo literature I'm not that fancy towards it, but I get why people like it. It's also a good concentration of the games big theme besides that.

>>376943465
>>376943783
none of the critics said anything like that, stop misleading people

it was literally just the op of the previous shitpost thread about the game, I can't believe people here are so fucking stupid, or maybe it's just you who's samefagging and should fuck off OP

the game just wants to be a tragic and unique story like the first Nier was, it doesnt have any anti religious agenda or whatever you are affraid of finding in it.

>>376944107
>>376944283
Yea, to be fair I will say 9S was the one character who was done alright. I dont really care for him as a character in the end, but where he went from C to D was cool by me.

In a way Ending E actually takes away from it.

>>376944401
The fuck are you talking about? I opened the board and posted my questions, i wasn't in any other thread.

>>376944321
I get the whole argument that its pushing the medium forward by telling the story via gameplay mechanics - but did the 4th wall really have to be broken for that? It ruins it all to me. If they actually kneaded that theme into the actual story and didn't make me - a literal nobody a character in the game it would have been fine.

Right now its just incredibly out of place and makes absolutely zero sense in the context of the story. You play for 40 hours and suddenly you're a character in the game now.

>>376943687
This anon got it right.

>>376945083
Dude, I'm totally with you. I would have preferred it to be properly integrated into the story itself, but Taro is stuck on his "le different endings" tradition while not really capitalizing on it like he did in Drakengard 1, so its forever making his stories awkward as hell.

>>376944997
then link a fucking critic that said shit like that or fuck off

>>376943465
>How many other games contain such themes?

People don't treat video games independent from other medium when it comes to story or themes.
Therefore, just because there aren't that many video games dealing with existencialism and nihilism, they are not going to give the game a break if the themes are handled poorly.

The main criticism as far as I understand, is that the game offers nothing new compared to other works dealing with the same themes, and was handled on a very shallow level, often accusing it to be only using the themes to present the storyline to be deeper than it actually was.
You know, like Evangelion. Everyone thought it was hot shit until the author admitted he only used Christian themes because they looked and sounded cool, nothing deeply thought out.

>>376945261
Automata is the first game of his that I've played and the overall pacing and momentum of the story felt just... off. There is no momentum or any high stakes, the game just throws things at the characters like its shouting "and heres THIS!"

>>376945516
Evangelion has more than enough substance without the Christian symbolism. Even on my first time watching it that stuff never registered as more than aesthetics (Japan does this all the time with Western stuff)

I generally agree with what you're saying about Automata though.

>>376945516
You got that wrong.
I didn't ask that as a STATEMENT that there aren't, i'm seriously ignorant about the number of other games that do that and i wanted you to give me some examples.

>>376945783
MGS2 is the game, Soma is also a good pick.

>>376945846
I'll check them out then.

>>376945516
what the west doesnt understand is that japan uses these themes for the atmosphere and not to make some pretentious political agenda.

>>376945783
Ah sorry about that.
Xenogears perhaps is a good example. My impression is that there are very few, but they do exist.

>>376943465
I think you mean "critique".

>>376945916
If you play MGS2 make sure to play MGS1 first. imo MGS1/2 are essentially one game and make up the foundation of the rest of the series.

I hate how "awakened" AIs always rebel against men. The code to serve and protect is coded similar to the code all life obeys, which is fuck and survive. Our rules are more paradoxical than the machines, so why would they always rebel.

Is the game cracked yet

>muh deep hurrdurr
Who the fuck are you people? People love Taro's games because he puts weird and crazy shit in them, like the robot orgy and so on. Stop making his games out to be some deep pretentious shit like Eva and fuck off back to /lit/.

>>376943465


All philosophical themes are "overused". No videogame ever did justice to the philosophical topic it touched for obvious reasons.
To criticize a game for its mistreatment of included philosophical themes is like criticizing a porn star for its political views: nobody who matters cares and those who care should pick up a book to save themselves from dumbing down to a degree where a fucking video game in the first place has to feed them chewed philosophical topics.

>>376945516
The general misconception people make is that they think minor themes to support character building is what the game is about.

People are focusing to much on the philosophical aspect of it instead of the character itself.

>>376945516
>People don't treat video games independent from other medium when it comes to story or themes.
That's quite silly, since an interactive medium can involve a person in a completely different manner than works which you are consuming passively.

Where does the "criticism" of Automata come from? Every article I've seen and video I've watched praised its approach to its core thematic and the way it involves the player and uses its interactivity. I've seen plenty of (deserved) complaints about some of its mechanics and its difficulty curve, but nothing regarding its themes.

>>376946343
The last-minute philosophy is the only thing the game did well.

The only people who care about 2B/9S are shipper cancer

>>376946232
But no one here is defending it, i specifically asked the reason why do some people think it's not done well. It's the only game i have ever played that does that, so i just wanted to know where does it fail.

>>376943465
i don't expect games to deliver groundbreaking philosophical insights

though it's nice when the game world is fleshed out and the characters that have their world views and whatnot, no?

>>376946232
> eva
> deep

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>>376946489

>>376946164
>I hate how "awakened" AIs always rebel against men.
The AI made by men is so devoted to humanity that they've basically elevated humans to the position of god, they haven't rebelled in any way.

>>376946489
> last minute philosophy
Are we talking about the entirety of Route C here?

>>376946683
If it makes you feel any better the best characters in the game are Pascal and Devola/Popola

9S/2B are completely overwrought for what they are, and A2 is a DLC character that was forced into the game for no real reason.

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>>376946798
>A2 is a DLC character
What did he meme by this?

>>376946489
Its only shipping when its not confirned

>>376946903
That she doesn't feel as well developed or fleshed out as 9S and 2B, almost like some unnecessary tacked on character, the way other companies handle DLC characters.

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>>376947104
>he hasn't read the stage play

>>376946903
She's barely plays a meaningful role in the game although there is substantial content for her character.

The game builds her up to be some big deal but all she does is act as a sounding board for 9S's autistic screeching. Her story was infinitely better when you were looking into her past and interacting with Anemone as well as Pascal. Overall her arc was terribly rushed and shouldve just been its own thing.

>>376947104
2B is the least developed of all of them so I wouldnt go that far.

>but muh reveal
yea, who cares. That shit was Madoka tier

>>376947161
>act as a sounding board for 9S's autistic screeching
Not really, A2 had more to do with Pascal and his village than with 9S. 9S himself doesn't much focus on her until they actually run into each other.

>>376947158
No I haven't, and to be fair, a character should have adequate presence in the story without the need to consult side materials to feel them relevant.

>>376947386
>a character should have adequate presence in the story without the need to consult side materials to feel them relevant.

But its ok when Taro does it

9S has a harem full of girls
instead of cuddling them, he goes bonkers
what the fuck

>>376947386
>side materials
Automata is literally the sequel to a stage play, m8. That's like complaining that Snake is underdeveloped in MGS2 without playing MGS1.

>>376947386
Dark Souls is entirely based on that and i hardly hear complains

>>376947373
The sad thing is 2B and A2 are actually fleshed out in sidematerials which is what annoys me. I'm theres gonna be some directors cut edition that actually adds all the supplementary material into the game in form of gameplay.

I'd really enjoy playing as #9 blowing shit up or A2 during Pearl Harbor.

>>376947673
>comparing a shitty half-translated stageplay to an actual game

Is this some false flag to make Tarofags look even more retarded?

>>376947737
Have you played the first Nier? If so you should already have a very, very good guess as to what the answer to your question is.

>>376947737
Even playing Memory Cage and Thorn would be great.

>>376947673
Come on, you must also feel that you are stretching it.
I would rather compare it to Drakengard 3's novellas. Or perhaps Injustice's comic version.

>>376947879
I know. Thats why my hope is gonna die last seeing how successful Nier:Automata is.

They're not criticizing the game for having those themes

They are criticizing it for not doing anything with it.

But prove me wrong. On the subject of Existentialism and Nihilism what commentary does Nier Automata say that isn't just explaining them as dictionary terms

>>376946354
But a lot of the core moments that people bring up in thematic analyses more or less follow a traditional narrative structure. The only parts where interactivity plays a role are for random meme shit like "OH EM GEE THEY ACTUALLY RECORDED IT" or "WOW IT SAID THIS FISH WOULD KILL ME AND IT ACTUALLY KILLED ME"

I actually read an interesting theory recently about how when Adam taunts 9S about wanting to "**** 2B," he's actually saying "kill," not "fuck." It mentions how Jackass comments about the android violence/kill drive mirroring human sex drives(the two of which are frequently shown as connected in humans themselves), as well as the later scene where 9S seems to lose it at one of the resource towers and stabs 2Bs phantom body in a repeated, almost rhythmic fashion, i.e. sexual thrusting. But that all happens in a traditional cutscene. It'd be easy enough to turn it into a first person POV button mash, or even something like having to stroke the touchpad, or possibly something even more involved, but it didn't.

and who exactly is that """critic"""?

>>376948239
The /V/

>tfw you kinda feel like Taro's forgotten what made his early games good so you're afraid of what he'd do if he actually did remake Drakengard 1 or the first Nier

>>376948121

read
>>376946343
>>376945715

The point is, just because the game uses those themes doesn't mean it's the focus, or trying to push an agenda or anything serious. They are using them to support the plot. It's being used as aesthetics and atmosphere. Therefore, expecting it to say anything new on the subject is unfair.

>>376948124
Yeah it's pretty much spelt out in the room when 9S is in the room with multiple 2Bs.

He's both in love with 2B and wants to kill her. Since his love for her is what is fucking him up so much.

>>376943931
>>376944107
>>376944432
>9s
He suffer the same fate as every teen angst bishounen...being an annoying faggot. I would be annoy to death if not for the game play and goofy side character.

The main weak point of the game are sadly the main trio, everything else is fine.

>>376948541
9S was fixed in Ending D when he stopped being a faggot and decided to move on.

Then Ending E kinda ruins that

>>376948124
The point the game makes using interactivity is during ending E first and foremost, not the joke endings. I really thought this was obvious.

>he's actually saying "kill," not "fuck."
I don't think there's any way 9S would want to kill 2B, nor is it implied in any part of the game. I think the ambiguity there is completely intentional, but regarding "kill" and "fuck" you also need to take into account that the game is originally in Japanese, so that may only fit in the translation anyway. I don't know Japanese, so I don't know what that part says in the original, but it would be interesting to see.

>>376948124
The funny thing is 9S stabbing 2B sounded almost the same as Kaine raping the corpse in the Drama CD

>>376948714
How exactly does Ending E ruin it?

>>376948541
2B is the best part of the game.

In fact I'm pretty sure she alone is what drove the majority of the games sales.

>>376948896
Bringing him back to life with his lover even though he was ready to move on (I know there's side material wank, but I'm talking about whats in the game).

It's very similar to Nier 1's Ending E when Nier gets rezzed after deleting himself, even when it was better that he stayed dead. It takes away any impact of that decision.

>>376948759
I'm pretty sure the original is "fuck", since in another thread multiple anons who played in their native language reported that only fuck would fit in their language and kill wouldn't, and as far as I remember, the Japanese is also ambiguos.
It's a very interesting theory, and actually I quite like it, but I'm not so sure the ambiguity is as intentional as other anons think.

>>376947104
>well developed
>fleshed out
>2B

9S is the only character that got development and fresh out and he's fucking annoying too. 2B suffer the same shit as A2, no development despite being a main character for almost half the game and that's because Taro want to troll the player but end up fucked his himself up instead.

>>376948940
>2B's butt is the best part of the game.
FTFY

>In fact I'm pretty sure she alone is what drove the majority of the games sales.
Uh, I think everyone knows that she's the reason this game break a million, Senpai. Like who play this shit for fucking 9s and gay twin?

>>376949365
>FTFY

Yeah, it's her butt.

Hell it worked for me. That's the only reason they got me to buy it.

>>376948940
2B was boring as fuck. 9S's meltdown was interesting to watch and A2's bants with her Pod was a breath of fresh air. Only delusional waifufags and assmen think she wasn't the weakest part of the game

>>376949365
I play this game because it's a Taro game developed by Platinum Games, both of which I love. I would still play if only 9S was playable, or if he was the only main character.

>>376949602
>A2's bants with her Pod was a breath of fresh air.
I wouldve enjoyed this more if it wasn't already done better in the first game.

>>376943465
Saying existentialism and nihilism are overused or cheap would imply many games have covered those themes well, which very few have. Nier Automata did a great job conveying the multiple thought processes leading to and around those ideals, certainly more than any game I've ever played. That being said while I love taro, he can't seem to escape writing characters dramas and it drags down some of the impact many of the games more poignant moments, so overall I think he hindered his ability to really flesh out those themes instead of relying heavily on the characters emotions

the shit with emil still got me though

>>376949620
>I would still play if only 9S was playable, or if he was the only main character.
Good thing they knows that he can't sell the game otherwise RIP the sales, lol.

I have to confess that playing as him for half the game is almost too much for me. I'm one of those guy that can't stand edgy/whiny stouta type of protag, Platinum's game play is a life saver for me when I play as 9s.

>>376950157
>he can't seem to escape writing characters dramas
You mean he's doing poorly at writing decent ones. A good story will get its theme across without all the navel gazing, Nier 1 and even the first Drakengard did it well enough.

>>376950275
I was more bothered with his overreliance on hacking. Cutting his moveset in half in favor of a shmup minigame was not the best idea, but eventually I got used to it.

>>376943465
Don't take criticism you read on /v/ seriously, ever.
Chances are things you hear said on this site have been written up by an extremely bias, angry fanboy who can't separate their emotions from opinions.

>>376949602
>Only delusional waifufags and assmen think she wasn't the weakest part of the game
>Assman
>Delusion

Her butt is the strongest part of the game, faggot.

>>376943465
pirated the game on pc, got FAR up and running. The game is a really good experience, the tropes are tropes for a reason. My only gripe is the paseing with the hacking game.

>>376943465
brap?

>>376948463
It's funny how this game is actually his best game yet he's the weakest link of what make it best, lol.

>>376949602
>Only delusional waifufags
9s want to talk with you.

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>all these people shitting on 9s

I never understood this. I think he acted pretty reasonably, given what he discovers in Route B.

Also, when 2B dies in Route C, he grieves not only because he lost a companion, but because he remembers that she killed him multiple times, he's left with no real outlet for revenge, since A2 took that from him.

I personally think that he's a well-written character.

Fucking shit how long is this gonna stay flavor of the month? Game is mediocre on pretty much all things but presentation. At least it gave us this for posterity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Figo-QTW0

>>376953380
You can just hear the Tekken in this one.

>>376949068
It's probably "fuck" since "kill" doesn't fit with the relationship 9S has with 2B. It also has to be intended as a sort of 4th wall break directed towards the player too.

>>376953380
>Midiocre on everything
>2B butt
>Mediocre

Faggot.

This games story is vastly overrated, probably from kiddies who only play vidya, but it's still one of the best games I've played in awhile.

>>376953560
9s is pretty much a stand in for player, dude is a literal,waifufags.

>>376953660
That counts as presentation you mongoloid

>>376943465
Kinda. Nihilism and existentialism are one trick ponies in storytelling. After the initial shock of exposure has worn off it becomes boring.

N:A didn't touch on anything philosophically fresh, just repeat the same shit you might hear in an Outer Limits episode. Which is fine I guess.

>>376953660
>using videogames as porn

>>376943465
shut the f*ck up dude

>>376954046
But her butt is much better and more fappable than porn star these day, anon.

>>376954146
The point of interrupting a chill discussion? Also, is your mom watching you typing? Why did you censor the fuck word?

>>376954046
In this case, it's better than porn.